Modeling Faith Through Suffering & Loss – Discipleship for Dads

The dads discuss fiery trials, and what has God taught them through these. They talk about long-term grinding down vs sudden crushing…the value of being forced to wait on the promises of God…how responding to bad news without complaint powerfully proves the faith to your kids…and the great balm of the psalms for the pain of asking, “Is God being good to me right now?”

2026 Shepherds Conference - Men Wanted for Battle
More info here. 

Check out A Hive of Busy Bees here.

Help your kids know God's Word by heart. Teach Me the Faith here.

Looking for a closer relationship with your son? Check ou

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

And welcome friends to Generations Kevin Swanson with you today. Another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and yours truly Kevin Swanson, a couple of dads in studio. And yes, the subject today is going to be well, require a degree of transparency from all of us. And that's not unusual for this program. But brothers, it's uh fathering through suffering, grief, and loss. What has God taught you? And uh we have all had Job experiences, I think, to some extent or another. And wow, it has been a test, and it is a test. It is a test. We are oftentimes brought into the cauldron of trial and testing. And it does two things. It tests the faith that exists and it kind of work hardens or develops a strengthening in the faith itself. So the fire does two things. It tests what's already there, but it also stretches the faith that needs to be stretched in the moment. And uh so I can say, yes, I've experienced this. I have absolutely experienced some of the most unexpected horrific trials. And uh, you know, we can have some group therapy afterwards if we need to. We can do some more. Actually, we did a little bit beforehand and we can do a little bit more afterwards. But uh but you know, I think uh the challenge, of course, is is uh you know, why me? Why is this happening to me at the moment? And there are different kinds of trials. There's a kind of trial that is uh a long-term uh chronic illness or something that just you know is is tough because it's going on for years and years and years. There's the kind of trial that hits you all of a sudden, like a tidal wave, a 400-foot tidal wave just taking you down. Yeah, and you're turning around and around under the water for, and I would say in some cases, you're not coming up for about a year. There's some trials in which you do not come up for a year. Right. You're gonna have to trust God underwater for about a year. Um and then you gotta trust God for the next four years as you as you continue to recover from the intense trial that that God has bringing you through. So you know, I think the biggest thing for me, and I'll just say what's the big takeaway for me? It was always the wisdom and the goodness, and of course the power of God, but that God is good absolutely all the time in the trial. And that, you know, yes, all things work together for good, but the question for me was always okay, yeah, but is God good in the moment? Not not will God be good to me as a consequence of this 20 years from now or on into eternity, but is God being good to me right now?

unknown 2:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

That I, you know, just coming to grips with whether or not God is good in the moment, that's number one. Number two is that you know, I had a different agenda. I I had a different plan in mind. I, you know, I was thinking that this was gonna work out a different way. And and then to come to the conclusion that his ways are so far above our ways, right, that in fact, as far as the heaven is above the earth, right, which as I understand is trillions of light years.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Pretty far.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah. I'm studying astronomy right now, so I know that you know the heavens are like way up there. So as far as the heavens are above the earth, so far are his ways above my ways. Yeah. Therefore, I'm the two-year-old, and I just have to trust the Father in this. I have to know the goodness of God. I need to know that God loves me and uh and that God will bring me through this. So it is a massive test of faith. And I want to get to this, but I think our children are watching us, and I do believe that these trials are some of the most important moments in our lives as fathers. Right. And I can testify to that in my father's life as well as in my own life. But uh, maybe a little bit of transparency. Have you ever been through a trial? And how did you react? Bill?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Sure. I mean, God, God definitely has placed trials in our life, some more difficult than others. I think the scriptures, one of the reasons why we don't trust in our heart is because our heart will fail us. And and during the most difficult trial, you have a failing of your heart. It it hurts. It's it's telling you that trying to tell you things should be different. And and so we don't trust in the heart. That's when we have to turn as hard as it is, and then we rest in the promises of God. We literally have to quote the promises of God while the heart is aching and hurting, because the promises of God are true, they will never fail. And they're the things that are gonna lift us up during during the difficult time. For me, uh, the it wasn't so much that the trial was huge and the moment. For me, it's been a a difficult trial that's lasted for years and years. Right. That and and so there's chronic trial. The chronic trial, right? That I lost a five-year-old. I can't imagine a parent losing a child suddenly.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

My sister lost her her son too.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I don't know that I've ever experienced that. But I I've had a uh trials that that just are maybe a little less, a lot less, and and but they just go on for a long time and they wear down the heart. I don't want to say equally, but they certainly can wear down the heart.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah. And I just want to say on the the promises of God, you know, I think we all know in those moments we'd got we need to go to the promises of God. But what I've learned as you know, walking with families through this and and even through us is we have to camp out on the promises of God all the time. Like even in the good, the good times. That's right. You must know the promises of God, not just go to them when when the trial hits, because uh that does that you know, responding is a lot better. If if you know, you know, when the wave hits or whatever when the tidal wave hits or the daily grind of it, and you remember, no, God is with me. That's a that's an important promise. God has not abandoned me here. That's not what this is representing. Right. Um, this is he he he knows what's going on. You know, these kind of promises are very, very important. But uh yeah, I think I think um looking at the promises is so important for us.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Uh one of the verses that came to us as we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, ourselves, my wife and I, and this would have been, I don't know, five years ago, eight years ago, ten years ago, there'd be even multiple trials. So many trials I can't even count them anymore. But one of the verses my wife would place around the house, multiple places, was the verse in um in Lamentations three, where where Jeremiah says, It is a good thing for a man to wait and quietly hope in the goodness of the Lord. That was huge for us. Um and the it was the word quietly that was tough for me, you know. I can wait and I can hope, but I can also be like screaming and crying and moaning and groaning.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

And you know it is a good thing for a man to wait on God. And waiting on God is one of the most important expressions of faith that a person can have. And in fact, it was so important that we got a hold of Andrew Murray's book, Waiting on God. And my wife and I would read those devotionals every night, and and we still do to this day. Good. Like five or seven years later, we go back to it on, I'd say, you know, once every three months or so, or back into Waiting on God by Andrew Murray. And by the way, we're publishing that. In fact, I think it's just released as part of the generation's classic series, the classic devotional series, the classics of all classics for devotionals. That's in the top four to five of all devotional books ever published in the history of Christianity. What's the name of it? It's called Waiting on God by Andrew Murray, the great revivalist in South Africa. Well, anyway, um, my dad, and let me just can I give you the example of my father. My father uh is a man of God, no question. And you know, the biggest thing that ever happened, he was always very consistent with family worship, you know, very consistent, very good. In terms of never missing the 40 minutes every morning uh to just read the word of God, to sing the psalms and hymns and uh and and memorize catechism verses. It taught you that it was important. It was all good. It was all good. There's that consistency and discipline on my father's part was really, I think, one of the best ways in which he conveyed the faith to us. But even better than that was the crisis. So we hit crisis. I'm gonna say in probably 1977, 78, somewhere in there, we're on the mission field, and we're actually a f a a really poor family. We are not supported by a denomination. We we have a couple of six, eight churches that support us. Well, my dad actually came to the conclusion that God is sovereign. He he came to the conclusion that there we need a God-centeredness in a man-centered age. Well, the problem with that is in the 1970s, that was probably the most unpopular position among evangelical churches. I'm just saying. It was, I mean, coming out of the 50s, 60s, and 70s, you had this man-centered doctrine, especially as applied to soteriology. Okay, so my dad came to the conclusion that that man is not in the center. Man is not the ultimate. God is the ultimate. And so so he applied that to to salvation, so soterology and to uh theology. And uh and uh and so we lost half our support.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

And uh so we're already poor, and then we lost half of our support. And I think at that point, my dad never complained about it. Never. His he was completely trusting in God throughout the process, and uh we we never went hungry, we went to eating bread crusts because those were you know basically almost free. They were offered to pets in Japanese bakeries. So we lived on bread crust for the next three to four or five years, and um, but we we we did well, you know, and and dad's attitude was great.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Mom, I think, was a little more like not sure how this is all gonna work out. But but you know, just watching dad's faith as we walked through that crisis, I think made a lot of difference. And you have six kids, all six kids serving God in some capacity in various churches, mission works around the world today.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

You know, I I think a lot of it ties into my dad's faith.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

I mean, you know what? I mean, you convey, you don't you can't just talk it, you walk it. Right and your kids are watching you. I think that's a point I want to make. So, so as dads, let's not minimize that. And I can remember going through some of these trials myself, and I'm thinking to myself, okay, this is it. We're uh we're out of the boat, we're on water. Better keep watching Jesus at this point, you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

I mean, it's that like moment in your life where God is testing your faith and your kids are watching you, right? And it's okay. Right. So that's personal testimony on my part, but it is a test of faith, brothers. Are your kids aren't watching your faith?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Your dad was looking under Jesus, the author and finisher of his faith. You know, when Jesus uh went through his trial, he lost a hundred percent of his support. All 12 of them left. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which was still a trial, but seven counting moms. Right. And remember, Jesus in the garden was saying, is it possible for another us to do this a different way? Right? It was a difficult trial that was gonna come. So looking at these trials realistically, it's not just uh like putting blinders on the trial doesn't exist, it doesn't exist, I'm happy in Jesus, I'm happy in Jesus. That's not the way it goes. It's that the trial exists, God still loves me. Yeah. I was we were in Isaiah 41 yesterday, and every time I tell you, tell my children, whenever you see a command from God, r think of it as this is gonna be a potential trouble for you. If God is commanding you to do something, remember that it's possible that you're gonna struggle in this area. And so we're Isaiah 41, uh, verse uh nine, I have chosen you and not cast you off. Fear not. There's the command. Why? For I am with you. Be not dismayed. Why? For I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. So that we talk about these are the promises we cling to. No, you gotta believe it. That's right. You gotta believe this. You're tempted to fear, you're tempted to be dismayed, you're tempted to say, I have no strength, you're tempted to all these things, and you remember that God says, No, I'm here, and even though it's gonna be difficult, I'm gonna carry you all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

And similarly, when when the trial comes, when the difficulty comes, the wave comes, whatever it is, our our natural inclination is is to doubt God, right? Or to to go, what's going on, God? This is not what I expected. And it's interesting, the call of the word is to remain steady in the faith. Like you're like we're saying with your dad. He was steady. There was a there wasn't a you know, up, oh, times are good, down, times are he's there's a steadiness, a steadfastness, uh, because we're we're trusting in the Lord. That's like this this 1 Corinthians 15. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable. There's an our faith enables us to to trust God so that we are immovable. We're not being pushed around by these circumstances, abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. There's the hope. It's like you're doing things, and God, it's not a waste. If it's in the Lord, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

And and Jesus presses the question on us do you believe me? Do you believe I can do this? Do you really trust me on this? And uh, you know, he's he's out there on the water, he says, Okay, now I need all of you guys to get out of the boat and walk towards me. And you can imagine, you know, at least 11 of the disciples going, Okay, I'm I'm with you, Jesus. Yeah, amen. Amen. Absolutely, you can do this. I I believe you. I believe you, Jesus. To which he would say, Okay, all right. Well, come on, guys. Well, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I uh we we we believe you. We believe you. We trust you, Jesus. Yeah. I mean he's standing out there going, yeah, okay, well, then let's step out of the boat now, guys. Well, no, no, we believe you, Jesus. We believe you, Jesus. That's the my point is that's not good enough. That's not good enough. You actually have to believe Jesus. You have to take the step. You can't just sit there in the church service and go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a believer. Yeah, I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a believer. Are you really a believer? Are you really a believer? I think Jesus presses that point for us. You are you with me, dear brothers? We had this conversation this morning. My wife and I got up at five this morning and we're talking about faith. And I said, you know what, I I don't think Jesus is satisfied with the yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe you, Jesus. I I think you have to actually believe Jesus. To be a doer. I think you have to be a doer, not just a follow through the trial in believing Jesus. You know, like as in proving that faith, that that faith is real faith. It's not just this sort of you know, tacit assent that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of believe what you're saying here.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

My brother, uh, when I was 13, or just knew in the faith, my brother just became a Christian. Somehow he came home with this story about what faith was. He said, There was a man who set up a tightrope, and he he had a big crowd underneath him, and then he said, How many of you believe that I can walk this tightrope from here to there? And they said, Well, we believe, we believe. And he walked over and then he came back. He said, How many of you believe I could take a wheelbarrow across this tightrope and come back? I'm like, We believe, we believe. And then he said, How many of you believe I could take a person in the wheelbarrow across a tightrope and come back? And they said, We believe, we believe. And he said, All right, who's first? Get in. Who's first? Yeah. And then the belief kind of fell apart. The day before yesterday, we were in Genesis chapter uh twenty two. And um Abraham, you know, probably one of the biggest trials of his life, God says, Okay, I want you to take this promised son and go kill him. Yeah, sacrifice to me. Right. And you know that Abraham goes to bed at night thinking, Lord, what's what's happening? How could this be? But the scriptures say he rose up early and he went and did it. You know, you talked about being an example for our children. We've got to keep one foot in front of the other through faith. Abraham didn't sully around in the morning, he rose up extra early and and took off and just put one foot in front of the other. Here's leaving.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Here's the question that I want to pose you, Todd. First, you how do we respond? Okay, the title wave hates, the bad news, okay, we just lost a loved one, or whatever, okay? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

So how do we how do you respond? I think the first thing is to look to God, go to God, and through prayer would be the main way. I think you'd physically do that. But um, but you got to turn to God because our our inclinations to turn to well, for some for some men it will be the what's the how do I fix this? Like what how do I get out of this? How do I reverse or detour whatever? Or it's also to uh just sort of respond faithlessly, and a lot of us can do that in an anxiousness, a worriness, like, oh, what's gonna happen? Sort of compounding something that's maybe not even there. So it's a turning to God and it's remembering his promises, but I think it's immediately going to God and recognizing that he's he's sovereign, he's with me, he knows what's going on, he's not gonna leave me. This is not like a surprise to God. That gives a lot of peace, yeah, too. And I think so we as as the dads go there, but the we gotta point the whole family to God at that time. Remember Job, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I mean he worshiped with with about 15 minutes what you get the five worst things. I think you know, we think, oh, Job was such a worshipful man, which he was, but I think he was just like, I don't know what to do. Right. I'm totally lost. So what I do know is that God is good and God gives and takes away, I'm gonna worship him. Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

And boy, what an example. Uh Bill, any other responses? What do you do?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Well, you know, the tears are appropriate. You know, you said if if if my child all of a sudden died, what would my first reaction be it would be to cross. Grief, sure, absolutely. There's nothing and you know, again, there's nothing wrong, and there's something good about grief and and crying. Jesus wept uh at the the the tomb of Lazarus. There's that's an appropriate response. We're not saying the quicker your tears end, yeah, it's the the more spiritual you are.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

And we had a brother at our Presbytery church meeting uh testify to his lost of his wife, and he said it comes in waves. And he apparently he was a surfer guy. Did you hear that part? I've heard I've heard that about people. Really good. He said sometimes it's the tidal wave, sometimes it's you know, the wave you can you kind of ride it down all the way to the shore. Sometimes it'll take you down for a couple of seconds, but it comes in waves. He says the grief comes in waves, and you just have to ride those waves out, and um and you know, and I I would say it takes about a year before you're really coming up after a major crisis. So the psalms. Let's talk about the psalms. The psalms are huge, the psalms get you through. I mean, here this the go-to psalm for me has been Psalm 143, and I feel free to share any other scripture, brothers, but I think we have to even bend to the Psalms. That's why my very first set of family Bible study guides are the Psalms. I I've gone, you know, I've got five volumes through the Psalms. Uh, and I also recommend Spurgeon's uh Treasury of David. We've walked through all that with our kids as well. Right. But um Psalm 143 was was my go-to. It just was. I mean, it it was my heart. It was every word of it was what I felt. And now, you know, that's gonna be different for a different people, but I think to know the Psalms, to have already gone through 150 Psalms, to be singing the Psalms in the churches, right? This is the balm that God has provided for the human soul. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you can toss off all of God's medications if you want to. But God has given us this medication for for getting through the trials, the spiritual aches, the the crises, the the you know, the the pouring out wounds that are just, you know, blood everywhere. God's given us the Psalms for this. Do not enter into judgment with your servant, for in your sight no one living is righteous. I mean, that was huge to begin that psalm that way. It's verse two. For the enemy has persecuted my soul, he has crushed my life to the ground, it's made me dwell in darkness like those who have been long dead. I've I I've felt this way. I've felt like I've been, I'm I'm 70 feet underground in darkness, in utter darkness. I mean, I I have felt this way. Therefore, my spirit is overwhelmed within me, my heart within me is distressed. And then I remember the days of old. I meditate on all your works, I muse on the work of your hands. Absolutely. I just sit there and muse on what God has already done. I muse on the great redemptive work that Jesus did on the cross. You know, I spread out my hands to you. And sometimes I even, as I read the Psalms, my hands would go out. And as you guys know, my hands tend to do that kind of thing, but I spread out my hands to you. My soul longs for you like a thirsty land. Do not hide your face from me, lest I be like those that go down to the pit. Cause me to hear your loving comment. I oftentimes would say this psalm in the in the evenings, you know, like two in the morning. For in you I do trust, deliver me, O Lord, for my enemies. Uh you I take in you I take shelter. Teach me to do your will. This is where I always ended up. For you are my God. Your spirit is good. Lead me in the land of uprightness. Revive me, O Lord, for your name's sake. In your mercy, cut off my enemies, destroy all those who afflict my soul. For I am your servant. There was an identity there that really helped at the end. At the end of it, I go, Jesus, I am yours. I belong to you. I'm your servant. I'm here. I'm still here. And I will be here to the end. So Psalm 143 was a big psalm for me. Yeah. First time I've been through that, you know, in a public, in a public presentation, but I think I'd like to share that with our listening audience that Psalm 143 was Kevin's psalm. And uh by the way, if anybody has a psalm that has really been an encouragement, that's your psalm, could you write that in to us at mail at generations.org. Any other any other psalms, any other scriptures?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

You know, each of us probably have our own weaknesses when the trial comes, right? And so mine is to hang my head low. And sort of sort of the curl up in a ball and go in a corner and sort of it's a bit of self-pity. It's not good. I mean, this is not a good response. So I know that's my inclination, but what I what really propels me by the faith God's given is to it's he's it's sort of like he's saying, get up, stand up, and just step forward. You can't stay in the ball in the corner. You have to stand up. And so Psalm 56 has really been encouraging to me in that. And um, you know, I'll just one part of it. Read a little bit. Yeah, for you have delivered my soul from death. And it's interesting, there's a there's a gospel connection. It it sort of brings, you know, there's these present circumstances, but you have delivered my soul from death. We're reminded I'm alive forever with Jesus. Like this is bad, yeah, or whatever, this sad thing happened, but you've delivered my soul from death. So it takes us to this sort of bigger picture, right? That wow, yeah. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. Like I'm I'm I'm gonna live with Jesus forever. So you have delivered my soul from death. You have you not kept my feet from falling? Oh, yet again, it's true. These are true promises that that I may walk before God in the light of the living. And there it is. Stand up. Yes, this has happened, but I'm calling you to grieve. There's a time of that, but then I'm calling you to walk, to step forward in the faith. You're not done. Your life is not over. This is not the end. Stand up, walk forward. Amen. It's good. Psalm 34. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

For me. Big yeah, go. Yes, verse uh 15. The eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous. When I start to doubt, God, do you see me in this? I I remember the eyes are of the Lord are toward me. His ears toward their cry. He's hearing my cries. The face of the Lord is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth. When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted, the ones going through the grief, saves the crushed in spirit, the ones whose heart are broken. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. And then it ends the last verse. The Lord redeems the life of his servants, like you said, me. That's me. None none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned. Not one, not one. And that includes me.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

That includes me. That's me. That's right. Um, okay, just for a moment. The the wrong ways of handling. And you know, and I think we all have been through that. And we have to repent of it. We say, okay, that was wrong. Right. And and we repent in front of our kids. That's okay. I've been handling this wrong with children. My wife, I've been handling this wrong, and I I I I repent in front of you and my my God, and I confess these sins before. Uh blaming God for our circumstances, the bitterness. The thing about bitterness is that we can be bitter towards the circumstances or towards others, but in the end, in the end, that bitterness is typically towards God. And that's that's where you know this thing goes very badly for us. Uh blaming God. Uh as in when we say blaming God, what are we saying? We're saying that well, God is not righteous.

SPEAKER_05 26:32

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

God is not good. Not good, right? God is not good all the time. That's like the other confession, right? Right? We we like that short confession. God is good all the time. All the time, God is good. But to come back and say God is not good all the time, that's not that's not very good.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

I've I either want to blame myself or blame others. I want to start looking for the sins of others or myself that cause this problem. Like, all right, if we if you guys didn't sin in this way, we wouldn't be here. And then eventually I get if I didn't sin in this way, sometimes I wouldn't be here. But they're not always related to sin. Not the trials aren't all there, but some some of them are. But that's my tendency to want to say, all right, what went wrong? What should I have done back here to cause this thing today not to happen?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

And one of the distinctions that has helped me in all of this is number one, we have no right to assign a cause-effect one-to-one relationship between the negative thing that happened and something bad I did 14 years ago. Right. We have no right. And the reason for that is because God has not given that to us. That's Job's comforters. That's what they got wrong.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

We can't be doing that.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Something wrong with you, Joe.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

We can't, yeah, yeah, exactly. And they went through 38 chapters of that. But we what we need to do is say, no, no, we can't do that. Nevertheless, nevertheless, that's right. God is not punishing me for something I did, but God is teaching me. Growing you, yeah. God is growing me. God has something He's doing with me in this. That's right. So the difference between, you know, cause and effect, God slapping me hard because of something I did 14 years ago, and and and and going through a trial in order that I might learn to trust, to believe, to hope, to perhaps love God more with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love my family, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I'm learning these things. I am willing to learn these things. But to sit around blaming myself, kicking myself, uh, pretending like somehow I'm atoning for the sin I committed 14 years ago, that's denying Jesus. What was Jesus doing on the cross for us, right? I mean, it seems like he was doing something there for us. He was the one paying for our sins. Amen. We don't pay for these sins. Nevertheless, you know, Hebrews 12 speaks of uh God uh, you know, God is teaching, training. The discipline is a discipling. Yes. That's that's the word used in Hebrews 12. Yeah. That discipline of God, that word is actually discipling that God is doing in my life.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

He's using these trials for a purpose. Yeah. And so I mean, certainly one of the next bad responses is anger, which which then typically leads to bitterness. Like we get angry, we blame, we're what's what's we're figure out. But the other thing I think for dads, we is we can withdraw. You know, we can we can withdraw, we can isolate, and we can go, or we can I mean, we can run into forms of escapism, right? But we we we we we have to be present in these times with our family. It's not a time to go, I don't know what to do, so I'm just leaving, right? And and that is a that is a that is a response. But we have to be on guard for that. It's it's God's not asking us to lean back, he's asking us to lean in, probably, to the family more than ever.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

And I think there's a hardening that happens when we crawl into ourselves. We're not willing to stand in front of God and say, God, I still love you, I trust you, I'm listening I'm listening to you. Yes. Um, and I'm I'm softened to you, I'm not hardened towards you in this trial. Right. The same fire, I think we said this before, the same fire can harden or soften. It can go either way. It's probably gonna do one or the other. And so, how does how we responding to this? Oh, the same thing for disciplining a son. You think about, you know, that son can can be hard and kick and scream and yell and punch dad, right? Or that son, in the midst of that training session, uh could could actually be softened. Right? It can go either way.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Right. And there's and there's an endurance you mentioned in Hebrews 12. It is for discipline that you have to endure. So you don't know how long God's gonna take in this trial. Like I said at the beginning, this has been my trial, is that I thought maybe just a year or two or a few years or 10 years, but it's been longer than that. And that's the thing that has worn me down to the place where I have to really trust in the Lord and in his promises and um to to remember that he loves me. He loves me and he's with me during all of these trials.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

One of the questions, and I want you guys to wrap this thing up, but I want to wrap it up this way. Uh one of the questions people ask is how can we rejoice and be exceeding glad in the midst of our persecutions, tribulations, and trials, right? Be we see that in 1 Peter 1, we see it with Jesus admonition, Ephesians 5, rejoice and be exceeding glad, for so is your reward in heaven. And I think the answer is is this that yes, we can mourn and rejoice in the same moment. And this is why. Because we live in the present and the future at the same time. In other words, we are not we're dealing with the sorrows of the present, but because hope in God's promises, as you mentioned, Bill, is so much a part of our lives that we are hoping in the future while living in the mournful present. So I think the Christian can do both at the same time. Obviously, joy and trial has got to be born out of hope. Right. Hope in God. I mean, isn't that ultimately what Psalm 42 is saying? Why thou cast down on my soul hope thou in God?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Last uh comments on trials. You know, there's an aspect to this of remembering who we are in in God's eyes, in Christ. And for me, and and maybe maybe this helps dads a little bit, is that you are kept in God. You know, I think I think when something tough happens, we think, oh, I got out of God's grip a little bit, or or maybe I did something wrong, or the stars didn't line. Something and and we have to remember that we these the the truth of God is that we are we are held in God, we are kept in God. It's not something that you know depends on how we did today or performed today. It ultimately goes back to that. That's why for for me and I know my family, it's it's this living hope. Living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled. This world is there's things that are corrupt that are defiled that are going wrong. It's where moth and rust destroy, where thieves break in and steal. But but this, what we are part of, what we are kept in, it's an undefiled inheritance that does not v fade away, reserved in heaven for you, where you are kept by the power of God through faith. The power of God through faith. And that what else can we have hope in than that that ultimately incorruptible power of God through faith for salvation? Bill, last words.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah, you know, providentially David went through so many trials. You know, I'm often amazed how many times he was unjustly treated by Saul. You know, he could have gone out and told everybody how Saul threw a spear at him. This guy isn't as good as you think. But he he just kept entrusting himself to the Lord. And I think of 1 Peter chapter 2, right? For this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example so that you may follow his steps. So this is the way we're to follow Jesus in this way. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. But when he was reviled, he did not revile in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. And I think that reminder to me, God is keeping track of everything. Nobody's gonna get away with anything. I can keep entrusting to him everything, all my difficulties and trials, knowing he's in perfect control of it and he's gonna make all things beautiful in his time.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

And as long as you hit 1 Peter 1 and you hit 1 Peter 2, I've got to bring in 1 Peter 4. Okay, 1 Peter 4. It's been huge for me. You know, because I think sometimes we think we count it strange.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

Like, this is odd.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

I'm going through a title wave. It shouldn't happen. This should not happen. Yes, what's up with this? The fiery trial. You know, unexpected and very odd. And whoa, what's happening? Beloved, do not think it's strange. Do not think it's strange concerning the fiery trial, which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah. But rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings. Amen. That when his glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. Amen. Well, friends, we'll end there on this edition of Generations and Discipleship for Dads. If you would like to add anything to this, your own testimony, uh the psalm that encourages you or some other aspect of uh the subject, discipleship for dads, just email us at uh mail at generations.org or host at generations.org goes directly to me. This is Kevin Swanson, Todd Strasser, and Bill Roach, inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.