Avoiding the Ditches of White Knight & Overbearing Blowhard - Discipleship for Dads

Many men compulsively side with women, whether they’re right or wrong. But we should be more jealous for God’s honor than women’s, and more fearful of what He thinks. The dads talk about the white knight mentality, and ask: don’t women deserve special honor? How biblical is “happy wife, happy life?” Can you really keep the peace without obedience to the gospel of peace? And what should you do if there’s a tug-of-war for control in your marriage?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome friends to Generations Kevin Swanson with you today. Another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig. Usual suspects. Dads, granddads, in studio now. I think uh what, like what are we, 18 kids all together and 27 grandchildren or whatever. I don't I don't have the numbers. You're the numbers guy. Yeah, I know. I should have this all calculated in my mind. But uh today, today we want to talk about something that's very culturally relevant today. Uh white knights, biblical masculinity, and when dad lags spiritually. And so we're not gonna be able to get to the you know 100% on this, but we're gonna do the best we can to address, I think what we see to be ditches. I mean, you know, there is what we call ditchology, in which not just one ditch, but two, three, four, five, six ditches. And I think as as you know, godly men, godly leaders and families and churches, we have to be aware of the ditches, guys. Now, let me define this white knight thing first, because that that's at the top of the list here. The white knight is uh a man, slang for a man who repeatedly defends, rescues, or champions a woman. This describes a man who listens sympathetically and validates women's feelings, avoids confrontation or forceful disagreement, uh, presents himself as protective, considerate, and emotionally sensitive, and publicly intervenes against men who criticize or mistreat women. He compulsively sides with women in counseling whether she is right or wrong. Okay, so that's the issue. Now, from the outset, um I I and we had a little conversation on this off-air, and that is that brothers, we need to be God word. We need to be God-centered. Uh, let's start in the vertical here. Um, what we need to be first and foremost is a godly man. What is a godly man? A godly man is a God-centered man, a god-fearing man, a god-loving man. Right. Uh, this means that we are committed to God's agenda, God's views, uh, God's perspective, God's law. And uh, and we're very jealous for the Lord God of hosts. We're not people pleasers here.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Uh, if somebody in our home or church, including ourselves, is violating God's laws and walking contrary to the ways of Jesus, we're gonna point it out. And uh and we will be ready to do Matthew 18. And Matthew 18 involves, of course, pulling out the log in your own eye so you can see the speck on somebody else's eye, and all of the things that Jesus teaches us. But uh, but we need to be in leadership on this Godwardness. And um, and so I think that's the first thing. And what happens with you know, human categories and humanist categories is that they're they're really not all that interested in God or God's law, or that we are all subject to God in this, uh, but that's the first thing that comes to mind to the godly man and to the godly father who's leading in the home. And and you went right to that, Danny. Yeah, as I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

As I think about my own life, uh my my fear of God is or the lack thereof is a thing that sets the tone in my leadership, uh, and certainly my love for God as well. But that fear of God uh balances me between uh looking at my weaknesses and obsessing over those on the one hand, or maybe looking at my wife's disagreements overly and obsessing on those over on the other hand. The fear of God keeps me centered. And so I think uh for myself, uh my ability to lead is not primarily the degree to which I've learned Hutzpah, uh, but the degree to which I've learned to set my submit myself to God's will for my life. Uh I have to learn to be a zealous follower of God's will for my life as the leader of my home. And that will then propel me to set a direction zealously for my family, which by God's grace others will follow.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

The the man who trembles before God, the man who's on his knees before God in the morning, uh humbly submitting himself to God and worshipping God throughout the day and living to the glory of God every day, will be the man who can rise up and uh and and lead in the godly way in the home. Todd, you had an illustration of this that I thought was important.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Yeah, I mean, there's a we're talking about ditches, right? Yeah. And there can be a the the chutzpah, the the the the manly man, the and that can we have to be careful, that can result in quite a harshness that brings a tone and a harmony to the family that's not good, right? And and then everybody in the family is gonna respond to that. And then, you know, on the other side, there's another ditch there of just the passiveness, the not leadings spiritually. Right. Um, and and I think what you're you're what you're saying is exactly right. Sometimes we as dads can go, well, I'm just trying to keep the peace. I'm just I don't want conflict, I don't want everybody all upset and all this tension and stress. So I'm just gonna kind of back off. But but you're focusing on those things. You're not focusing on the Lord, you're not looking upward. And a lot of the ways that this is driven in a home, home culture is driven by the dad's example, like you started with. Like, is the dad, you know, where's his devotion to God? Uh is he praying in the middle of the living room when when something hard happens? Or does he run off, you know? Just leading by example, and the family's gonna follow that.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Doesn't matter what your wife thinks. Right. It doesn't matter what you think. Right. Matters what it matters what God thinks, right? Yeah, you know there's some guy going, oh, you admit to that. Well, it doesn't matter what you think, big guy. Ultimately, it matters what God thinks. And that that needs to be the mindset. Go ahead, Bill.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

No, I was gonna say when you were reading what this white knight definition, there were some good things in there. Yeah. To rescue a damsel in distress, I mean, that was a good thing that a knight did, right? So this is the hard part is this guy might be doing some good things, but then if he carries it too far, if the wife is right no matter what, you know, the protection of her emotions, the protection of everything is the most important thing, then you get outside of the law of God. I think of Nehemiah. He was very zealous for the law of God. Uh, there was a time when um the people were charging interests in a way that was against uh the laws of God, and he became very angry. He said, You can't do this, you need to stop it now. He said, You are oppressing these people in a way that God does not want you to do it. And then just in the same chapter, it comes over that he gets to uh get money from uh from the people to because he's the governor and he he has a right to it, and he says, I don't want to take it because it's gonna put too much oppression on you. And he says in in Nehemiah 5 is that he did it because I I will not do this because of the fear of God. And I thought, oh, why fearing God and not taking money that you're you rightfully do? How does how do those connect? What he said is I don't want to press the people, and I serve and I'm gonna submit to the fear of God, and God's gonna take care of me.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Are there people, are there men who live in the fear of wife?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Are there men who live in fear of self?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yes, fear of wife, happy wife, happy life, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

That kind of thing. That seems to be living the fear of wife. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

That's uh that's an abomination.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

That's terrible.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

And fear God, how that can happen is sometimes a husband will will hurt his wife. And he might be too harsh. He can also hurt his wife by being too passive and not leading. Right. And that that can hurt a wife. But but then often to maintain peace, there can be a retreat and almost let the wife lead. And that's not very healthy. But when we're told in you know, 1 Peter 3 to dwell with your wives in an understanding way, it doesn't mean just, well, whatever she wants, I need no, no, no. That's that's very that's passive. That's not leading. I mean, wives were made to to to come under and be the help meet. That's what from the very beginning. And so there is a there's a position for that that we need to walk in.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

You know, there are worldly categories, uh, the soft man, the hard man. Uh in some senses, both are a problem. Uh God calls men to strength, actually. To be strong, be manly, be strong.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Uh so there's a strength, but strength in what? Strength in faith. Strength in uh in committing to to obey God, to follow God, strength in love, strength and you know, love that that continues on, that uh no matter what, endures all things. Okay, that's a strong love. Uh so strong love, strong faith, strong hope. Um strong in yes, leadership, but leadership in a godly way and godward way. And strong in serving.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Strong in serving, sure. Can I add another one? Uh it's it's in a s being strong in being steady, which is trusting in the Lord. Yes, fastness. Not the not the up and down emo you know, it's fastness. There's a step, but that that takes strength to be steady.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Absolutely. And these are forms of faith, as I see it. Yes, yes, um. Well, we have a manosphere as well that reduces the conception of the ultimate man to uh to an aggressiveness, to a sexual aggressiveness, which by the way is fairly easy for most guys. I mean it's just you know, naturally sexually interested and you know, aggressive, and like okay, be that way. Well, you're already that way. That's easy, you know. So so it's a I think what what you get with a manosphere is a reductionistic. Um you reduce it. But also there is, I think, a lack, and again, we're talking about biblical manhood here. There is a lack of this gentlemanly thing in in the modern conception of what it is to be a man. Do you remember the word gentleman? Yes. This was years ago, Bill. Go back. Gentlemen. Go back. Ladies and gentlemen. Remember they used to use that term.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah, that's been a while. Yeah. Is there anything to the term?

SPEAKER_03 10:45

There should be. There should be. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Gentleness is a is a important thing. Gentleness is important characteristic of a man of God.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Every elder is called to gentleness. Right. So what is this? What is gentleness? And what is what is to be mannerly?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

You know, that's the other thing. That's a real question, Kevin, because I think we we've kind of set the stage for this this white knight to come along because we define masculinity wrong. We said that masculinity is spending two hours in the gym with so that you have biceps that stand out when you put on a tight uh short-sleeved shirt. That's not masculinity. Um there's there's there's something to be said about having a strong body, but this idea that the masculine man is somebody who has big muscles that rip out of his shirt, that that's not masculinity. That's the world's definition. You can't find that anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Is that in 1 Peter somewhere? You know, I don't think so. Um but but yes, God calls us to certain things. God calls us to love our wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. 1 Peter 3, you referred to that earlier. You husbands dwell with your wives with understanding, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel. So there is apparently an honor that is due the wife, a special honor that is due to the wife. There is a an honor that she is to pay to her husband, right? And there is an honor that we are to pay to our wives. Is there a special care that needs to be applied to women and children? And I I believe so. Do you remember the women and children first thing that was a big thing when the ship was going down? And we just we just watched the documentary on the on the uh concordia that went down in the in the Mediterranean. Oh, yeah. Remember that?

SPEAKER_04 12:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

And the first guy off was the captain. The captain ran his ship into the rock and then he jumped on the lifeboat and took off. Well, he's serving 16 years in prison now for that. But we used to have this women and children first ethos or ethic. And that's, you know, there aren't that many men throwing themselves in shark-infested waters uh so to save the women and children today, you know. I think of the Birkenhead drill, you know. Um but what is this manners thing? Again, we're talking about uh the the man in the home and how we raise our sons. Should we open the door for our wives? You know, this sort of thing. Um, and I'm not seeing this as a priority in the manosphere.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Are you are you seeing it? No, and it's too bad because uh what what you're talking about, even you know, little things like opening the door, what it's displaying is that gospel Christ posture of I am preferring others above myself. I I am taking the lower seat. I am here here, I am honoring to others, and and and particularly biblically to the wife and to children, they're they're they're vulnerable, right? They're they're they're they're in a position where we do have more spiritual strength, physical strength, all these things that we are to not keep for ourselves, but to actually give, just like Christ gave, we give it. I was looking at you know, Ephesians 4. I mean, it's it's bigger than just in marriage. This is your calling, you know, dads, right? It's um Paul's talking, he's talking to Ephesus, he says, I beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you are called in all lowliness and gentleness. So the reason you can open the door is because you're lowly. You're saying, Yes, I'm honoring you, and and you're gentle about it. And so there's that gentleness with long suffering, bearing with one another in love. So a special honor.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Uh does that by honoring the wife by being gentle, does that does that in some way reduce our position, our authoritative position in the home? Uh and I think this is the fear that some people have that the man becomes the doormat for the woman, or the woman becomes the doormat for the man. Now, my answer to that is is we are all humbled, we're all before God, we are humbled. So the humility before God, again, this Godwardness is the answer. Yeah. If we are humbling ourselves before the mighty hand of God, there is no none of this garbage where you know we are the doormat for anybody else. No, no, we are God's doormat, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And Galatians 6:1 uh presents this gentleness as the precursor for that godly intervention in another person's life. Uh if a man is overtaken in a trespass, or a woman, as the case may be, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness. Good. Lest considering yourselves, lest you also be tempted. So that that spirit of gentleness is actually the precursor to the ability of a man to wade into the sin issues in his wife's life and restore such a one.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Aaron Ross Powell And that's pretty much the material issue. You know, you're getting right to the material issue. If there is a material issue that a man is going to have to lead in in the home is this area of submitting to God's rules. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And first and foremost himself. So he he confesses his own sins, pulls out the law, confesses his own sins, and then he gets on to addressing his his wife's sins. And I think that's appropriate for a man to address his wife's sins. He should be able to do this. He should be able to follow the Matthew 18 process. And he he has a responsibility to do this as a godly leader in the home. Now you don't do it in the middle of the fight. I get it, right? And and here's here's one more thing I want to add is that the the the Christian life is is a multifaceted aspect. We are called to to love, to love God first, to love one another, uh to to be courageous, to be wise, you know, to uh to have all of these these characteristics brought together in the spiritual man, the godly man in the home. So you can't just, you know, we're just I'm just this loving guy. I have no wisdom, I have, I have no courage, I have no faith whatsoever. I'm just being loving here. No, no. You're loving, you're wise, you're careful in the situation in which you're going to bring things out to your wife if you're going to call her on the carpet on certain things. Um and and you're going to be cautious in the sorts of words you use, et cetera. So wisdom ties into this, as well as courage, of course, faith. These these are all aspects of the godly man. And uh and and then he he confesses his own sins, he worships God throughout the day, he he addresses sins of his wife, his children. You know, he's got all these different aspects of his life, and there has to be there can't be this multi, the single focus, you know, my wife's sins. That's all I do all day long is is address my wife's sins. No, no, there's more to the Christian life than that. Right. And uh so there's a balance, I guess, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, you know, I think of Micah 6.8, you know, he he has told you, oh man, what is good? What does the Lord require of you? The first thing is justice. What is justice? It's the law of God. This is the first thing we look at. The law of God must prevail across everything. But if you apply the law of God to everybody at all times, it's gonna be a difficult thing. So you have to love kindness and mercy. Mercy. When people fail at the law of God. So you're leading your family saying the law of God is supreme. The next thing is we're gonna love each other when we fail the law of God. And the third thing is we're gonna be humble and admit when we fail to do justice. Good, good. So all three.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Again, absolutely the three legs on the stool. Yeah. Justice without mercy, what a bummer. Right, right. Right. So there's that forgiveness and that's mercy that's just just flowing in the home as well.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

There does seem to be this sometimes fear in the manosphere of, well, I don't want to be the doormat, so I'm gonna be the boss, I'm gonna lead, I'm gonna almost, you know, I'm gonna I'm ordering things around, making sure everything's in line. But again, it can take away, it becomes a me thing, not a God word thing. And I I just I just want to read this from 1 Peter 3 again. I mean, we we know this verse well, but but just listen to the uh the the depth of it. Husbands likewise dwell with them and with understanding, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, and being heirs together of the grace of life that your prayers may not be hindered. I mean, what's the focus? It's not me being the boss. No, it's it's recognizing the oneness of marriage. The that's what I'm to be focused on is this is this the grace of God that's enabled two sinners to to be together and uh and to maybe have a household and raise children and do all these things. And then it's it's serious, it's a sober thing. My prayers could be hindered if I'm if I'm approaching this wrongly and I need to be thoughtful about that. It's just not so black and white. It's it's that's what you're talking about. It's the love of God. It's like the assumption there is that God is watching you.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yes, you know, God's eye is on you. So there's certainly the fear of God involved here because your prayers are gonna be involved. Yeah, God's watching how you're handling this. How does one honor his wife? How and that may be the the the nub of the issue here, because there are men out there who are saying, I can't honor my wife. If I honor my wife, she'll never honor me. That's that's my guess.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

How would you respond to that, Todd? Well, I mean, we talked about we saw we see things like opening the door. I mean, I think that's that's a way of honor. Honor is an outflow of love. You're gonna love. You're not gonna, you know, categorize and put this person in a slot where this is how I behave towards them. You know, we are to we are to do all these things. We we can can we serve our wives? I hope so. We should be able to love our wives. That's service is an outflow of that, of love.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

I think a big part of it is listening to our wife. Uh, Bill, can you jump on that for just a moment? How how to honor the wife as the weaker vessel? Certainly, gentleness must play into this. We've got to adjust the touch.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Child mentioned first Peter 3, 7. I I like the next verse too. It says, Finally, this is the very following verse. All of you have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, tender heart, and a humble mind. Yeah so you when you're when you're having these discussions with your wife, you have that openness and you're you're seeking to have um that unity. Sometimes, you know, 95% of the time my wife and I agree on a path, I would say. That's pretty much we're in the the the low 90s, sometimes mid or high nineties. But what do I do in that five to seven percent when we're disagreeing? It's a good question. Yeah, what do you do?

SPEAKER_04 21:19

What I do is I say, Yeah, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Sometimes you punt. No. Um I what I say is okay, well, we're gonna do it the way that I think we should do it. But if I'm wrong, then we're gonna change course and do it the what you're saying. So we're gonna watch this one. Since we're not in agreement, I'm gonna I'm gonna go forward, not tentatively, but what I believe is right, but I'm gonna watch it very closely because you may be right and I may be wrong, and we're gonna change course in this.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

There's the 96, 97 percent of the time my wife and I agree, there is you know a percent in which I go, you know what, this isn't that big of a deal. Sure. So there's that too. Now that can lead to a passiveness, I get it. But if a man is so micromanage-y, yeah, that it's every little detail has to be according to his preferences, that seems to me to be a problem. So so I just I can let me go up points. You're right. And then there are times when I'll I'll kind of punt for a little while. Like we don't need to make this decision immediately. So let's pray, let's think through it some more. I want to hear more from you. So there's that category. And then there's the, you know what, we're just gonna do it this way, hon. Yeah. And and there's that too. But I think that mix is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Danny, yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Go ahead, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I was just gonna say that that word honor there uh has to do with value. Yes, and so to honor a A wife is just intrinsically to look at that woman in the morning when you see her for the first time and say, There's a gift. Tell me what I'm missing from God. There's a gift from God. And I am so thankful. I am an undeserving guy. And he who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord. Baby, you came into my life by the grace and favor of God. And so from there, I look at her through the lens of how what is how has God been gracious to me through this woman? And what are the gifts and wisdom, uh, her intrinsic worth, but also her unique abilities that I want to treasure, that I want to um to uh sort of put on a pedestal in the sense of magnify, to appreciate, and to uh cultivate.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

The idea that what am I missing that you're gonna help me see now.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Okay, that's how I was also gonna add apparently value enough that God would send his only begotten son to save her soul. So there's some value there too. Don't forget.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

And that's the other side of it is uh it's a hopefulness, right? So if we if we always look at our wife with, eh, she's always gonna respond like Eve. And you know, she's she yeah, she's always gonna be here comes Eve again. She's always going for my position. Well, wait a minute. Didn't Jesus come to reverse that curse? Right, that's right. You know, uh if if if if if the curse of me hating or you know, of of work can be reversed in my life, maybe the curse of her uh always looking for my position can be reversed in her life, and ultimately, I have this anticipation that she's gonna actually appreciate my leadership and lean into it.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Let's talk about the temptation to abdication. Um the guy who, yeah, he's sinned against his wife, he crawls into the doghouse, and for the rest of the 20, 30 years of his marriage, he just lets her do whatever she wants to do. Todd, what do you say to that guy?

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Well, again, um he's probably trying to maintain some peace. He's like, I figured out a thing here, and she seems to be happy, and I guess I'm okay because you know there's general peace in the home. But it's not good. It's not it's not what God's called you to. It's not the righteous man of God. You're not looking to God. Um we are to submit to God. We are submit to God. We're not submitting to all these other things that that may you know push against us in our life. And so again, that man needs to look to God. He needs to lead. It's now it's not gonna, again, it's not gonna be the harsh man. He's gonna lead, but he's gonna lead in love. So he needs to repent. He absolutely has to start with repenting and and confessing of the harshness and the abdication, both sides of it.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Both, absolutely to God and say, God, I'm not submitted to you. Step one.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

You don't stay in the doghouse because God has forgiven you. Right. And then you get back to your calling. That's the way the Christian life is. The guy who stays in the doghouse is not confident that God has forgiven him. Now his wife might beat him up a little bit. You know what's interesting to me? I know this is a little bit of a tangent, but you know, the NBA, you know what the NBA is? Men's basketball.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

You play basketball, big ball, basketball, all that.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Men's basketball. The women's NBA right now is about ready to implode because these women are going after each other. They're the the the emotion on the core and the cattiness and the attacking of one another. This the whole league is about ready to implode implode because the women are going after each other hard. Sometimes, sometimes women have a struggle with holding on to hurts longer than than men do. Men can sometimes move on. Men actually forgive men quicker sometimes than women forgive other women.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Yeah, you you still you see these men yelling at the ref, uh-huh, you know, but then at the end of the game, it's right, right.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

It's like they move on. That's right. That's right. And just to bring sort of those two points together, I think we see it in 2 Corinthians 5. We have to view rightly. We can't be walking around viewing all these things in the flesh, right? Um For one died for all that all died, and he died for all, that those who should live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and rose again. And I think when you have the husband that's like that, he's living for somebody else or to make somebody else happy. We're not living for Jesus. And so it says, Therefore, therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. We can't just be looking around with these, oh, keeping everything in order, natural eyes. We're we're hopeful in God, we're stepping forward in faith into the calling he's given us. We're gonna repent, we're gonna confess, we're gonna be humbled by that, but then we can lead with the right eyes, with the right view of faith, not a fleshy.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

And as it says in that passage, it's the love of Christ that compels us. Yes, yes, it's the thing that moves us and drives us on. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Take the guy whose wife is grappling for leadership all day long, and this happens in some cases. Seems to be a constant argument and a tug of war for control in the home. How do we respond to that? And here's one of the challenges we're up against right now is that you know there are more men attending church today than women.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

So this is one of the most incredible shifts that occurred. And uh so it's brought out you know some of these issues to the forefront. And um so I mean, let's talk to that guy. I'd say first he should not respond in like manner. So the Galatians 6.1 passage that Danny brought out is very, very important. He cannot give way to the sinfulness, the idea that we're competing on an equal level here. No, no, we are all submitted to God in this. And I just think that's first and foremost. He needs to realize he he's in submission to God. Maybe she's not submitting to God, but at the very least, he needs to submit to God. That's number one. I'd say don't be argumentative, don't be angry, don't raise your voice, be firm still with your decisions. Right. And uh and be careful not to micromanage at every single point. And then the other aspect is in argumentation, it seems to me that that we we often lose perspective. We don't bring in the gospel, we don't bring in the bigger issues, we don't acknowledge sin. We're not we tend not to want to you know admit our sins before God and then embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ and share that with our uh wife and children. So so those are some of the things I would say is that uh that check out the conversations. How did the conversation go? What were the emphases in the conversations, and were the conversations really Godward? I think those sorts of questions are helpful. Any other thoughts? What would you say to a guy who seems to always be in this battle for control in the home?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I want to encourage him with 2 Peter 1-3. His divine power is granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises that so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of the sinful desire. You can you can leave those sins behind and trust that God has promised to you to give you everything you need in this life. So get out of the doghouse and wife, open up the door. Don't keep your husband in the doghouse because he he does have some sin. He's gonna confess it, but then he's gonna grab onto the promises of God that he has promised that he will help him.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

What do you do with a guy who's just you know uh con convicted of his own sin, realizing he's sort of a mess, and we're all a mess by nature. And and yet he seems to think, well, now because I'm a spiritual doofus, I can't lead for now. I'm just not going to lead for now. Until I become this uh, you know, spiritual amazing guy, I'm not gonna lead.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Well, it's interesting. Uh, we just had a business retreat for profit coach, and uh uh I sat down with one of our team members and had a conversation in which he says, you know, my wife has a theology degree, you know, I lead in every other aspect of our our our our family except spiritually. Oh wow and and that's the that's the area where I just I you know I feel out of place. And uh so you know, we just we talked about the fact that well you're you're you're looking to God, but I I think there's a a a practical order here. And this is just what comes to my mind. Number one, just start getting the word out in your family, all right? You gotta get more word in your house. Just more word, just get more word. So bring it out, read it, just get it out there. Number two, lead in personal, so lead in the word, number one. Number two, lead in personal holiness. That word needs to be changing you, and your family needs to see that. Number three, uh, now start leading and applying the word to your family. And uh that will entail washing your wife with the water of the word. And then four, lead in spiritual and directional conversations with your wife. And and so I think that order stepping into it uh helps helps us. Can I make into this?

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Even more simple. Let's let's say this guy is married to a spiritual, you know, Mdiv for the woman, et cetera, et cetera, and he's this plumber who's you know kind of stumbling around spiritually, et cetera, et cetera. I would say this, okay. Bend your knees. Okay, this is how you do it. You bend your knees and then you lower your body.

unknown 32:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

You guys know where I'm going with this? Preferably closer to the floor, okay? You might even get your head down on the floor and then pray to God for his mercy upon you. Now, that's leadership. That's leadership. Okay. It doesn't matter what your wife is and how wonderful she is, if if you're that guy who's on the floor, God have mercy on me, a sinner, and you're leading in that in the home, that's pretty much it. And by the way, spiritual leadership in in 1 Timothy chapter 2 is that you know um that I would that men pray everywhere with the lifting up of holy hands. So so you know, men praying, men praying. That's right. So if to make it super simple, pray.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah, and back to the the the guy that thinks he's the spiritual doofus, and so but the problem is you're looking at your works, righteousness, really now. Instead of no, you're positionally, this is what God is done. Positionally, you're a redeemed son of the king. You are blood bot, you are not your own. That's who you are. It's it's your position. And now you're in this position in this covenant of husbands. Love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her and wash her by the water. You don't have to worry, it doesn't, it doesn't say if you are really a theologically astute, then wash your water. No, there's no disclaimers. Just like you, you need to do this, period. Do it. You don't have to do it perfectly. Open the Bible and read it.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

That would be that would be step one. Yeah. Okay, last encouragement to to men out there. And again, we're talking to men who but maybe are a little bit more uh but the passive side of things. Uh Bill, what would you say? What's what's the best thing?

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Before Dan Danny mentioned starting, it's in the fear of God. We need to submit to God and his will first. That you know, you talk about the the wife with the theological degree, but the man has the calling. Yes. I'd rather have the calling than the degree. And God has called you to submit to him, and you and you lead with again, Micah 6, 8, with with justice, with mercy, and with humility. It's good, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Well, God empowers what he calls us to. That's right. And so uh the good thing here is that we lead not only in direction, but we lead in confession, we lead in humility, we lead in, as you said, crying out to God for his enabling grace. And uh I I think of that verse uh that Paul says when he is speaking of his love for uh you know the gospel of Christ, he says, striving according to his working, which works in me mightily.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Todd, last words. I would I would just encourage uh husbands out there, men, to step forward in faith. This is a this is a faith calling, and and it is probably hard. If you if you've been in a a passive position for a while, it's it's comfortable, maybe even. But that's that's not your place, it's not your calling. It's to be there. You are to lead, you are to have vision, you are to take this family somewhere. And so you have to step forward in faith in that and break through. And I actually think uh when men do that and they do it well, they do it with repentance, they're doing it humbly, they're doing it according to the word of God. Oh, well, their wives love that. Yeah, it's really loved.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

One last thing, if I could. Oh, Danny, when you just said that God empowers you. Noah couldn't bring the animals on the ark, Joseph couldn't save his life to ultimately lead the people, Moses couldn't lead those people out. David couldn't beat Goliath. All of them had to rely on the faith Joshua, right? All on the power of God. Why are we going to be any different?

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Good. Thank you. Thanks for reading that out. Friends, excellent conversation today. I so appreciate uh these brothers in studio. Just getting to what it is to be the godly man. I'm taking a lot away as well. Hopefully, I'm growing in this, uh, brothers. But friends, uh, you know, as we wrap this thing up, uh, we've been at this for 22 years uh in in broadcasting, just getting the vision out uh to actually over a hundred countries around the world, but really focusing in on uh relationships, uh worldview. We want to equip the people of God to every good work. Absolutely. Uh that's our passion. We we want to equip in worldview, we want to equip in foundational thought, uh, we want to equip in terms of the battle and the world views that are engaged in culture and education, all these areas. But really, we want to equip families. We want to equip in discipling our children, we want to equip in uh restoring relationships and building relationships in the family. So uh we are in the midst of a fundraising month. July is our fundraising month. It's the first time we've done this. Uh but friends, if you really uh agree with us or you've been benefited by these resources, you think others might be benefited by these resources, uh just encourage you to uh to fund our program to encourage us and to kind of hold up the profits' arms, so to speak, as we continue this over the next year. So uh so check out our website, generations.org slash give. And uh if if you want to get behind our international program, our Worldview, the Worldview daily news program, or Generations Radio or Homeschool Summits, where we're reaching out, I mean, seriously, to hundreds of thousands of families through the homeschool summits. If you really like the idea of homeschooling, of finding ways to wean folks away from the secular educational model that's been so destructive. Um, if you agree with the idea of passing on the faith and to engage this uh this battle, uh please consider uh helping us at generations.org slash give. Uh so this is Generations, and we've done another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig, and yours truly Kevin Swanson. And I want to invite you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.