Brandidly Speaking

Inside Pamela Anderson’s Sonsie: CEO, Kailey Bradt on Simplicity, Trust, and Building a Brand That Lasts

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Celebrity‑led brands are everywhere now, and they continue to spark curiosity, cultural relevance, and drive sales. In this episode, Kailey Bradt, CEO of Sonsie, takes us behind the scenes of leading the skincare brand founded by Pamela Anderson, and shares what it truly takes to build a brand that resonates beyond a famous name. 

While Pamela provides the inspiration, Kailey explains how Sonsie is thoughtfully designed to meet their consumer where they are and speak to what they actually want: simplicity, trust, and intention. We explore the power of doing a few products exceptionally well instead of launching an overcrowded line, how to build a cohesive collection that anticipates and solves customer needs, and why leaning into the customer’s values and interests is essential to creating a lasting community.  

If you’re interested in brand building, marketing to women, or creating products that truly serve your customer, this episode is for you. 

New podcast episodes drop every Wednesday, hosted by Cris Gordon, Head of Beauty at MMC.  

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👍 Follow @Brandidly_Speaking on Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok and MMC on Instagram and LinkedIn. 

📲 We'd love to hear from you: hello@hellommc.com 

SPEAKER_00

Just having conversations with women, with Pamela, I've learned so much about beauty and just like how people perceive it at different stages of their life. So I really come back to this idea of like shifting and changing culture when you want to have a big movement. And when you put that together with Pamela and a beauty brand, I think something really magical happens. Pamela's part of that world, but Sansi has its own identity, its own existence. She's the inspiration, she's the vision. But what we're building goes so far beyond that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you find that there is a possibility that like your vision might be different from what the brand initially was, but that it's like a good thing to take the brand on that vision, or do you feel like it's been aligned in alignment the whole time? It's a brand new day. You know what that means. It's time for another episode of Brandedly Speaking with your host, Moi, Chris Gordon. Today I sit down with Kaylee Brott, and she is the CEO of Sonzi, the woman behind the brand that is built by Pamela Anderson. I'm so excited to dive into all of the amazing things that the brand has been doing to really change the way that we see beauty. This skincare brand has about three years, four years under its belt. Um, and so let's jump right into it. Hi, Kaylee. How are you? Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. You know, it's been a good long day. Um, nothing a little skincare and lip gloss can't fix. Um, but I'm really excited to talk to you because you've worn many hats in your career. And now you have been with the brand for a couple of years, but you've officially started as CEO as of last September, correct? Yes. Okay. So tell me a little bit about what that transition has been like.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I started really early with a brand, actually, not even just product, just as a general advisor. Okay. I love working with founders. I love working with brands early stage, which I'm sure you can relate to. There's like the zero-to-one moments are so exciting. And um, I started taking over Sonzi's product. You know, they were like, oh, we want to do a cleanser. I was like, okay, let's do it. Because the brand started with how many products at launch? Three.

SPEAKER_01

Three.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I had a serum uh moisturizer, like a rich, creamy moisturizer, which can also be used as a mask, and a lip balm.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And so yeah, my first project was the cleanser. And they really wanted a foaming cleanser, which I don't know if you've used foaming cleansers, but I personally don't like any of them.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard to get a good foaming cleanser.

SPEAKER_00

I tried a lot. So from there, um, we like nailed this cleanser. I didn't even know if it was going to be possible, but I have like a unique approach to product development, I would say. It's one of those things I think when you work with early stage founders and founding teams, if you really connect with the team, you just find yourself getting more and more involved. And the progression to CEO was actually quite natural. Um, you know, we were putting different materials together for the business. And I love running companies like operationally.

SPEAKER_01

And at the time there was no CEO yet, or was Pamela acting as CEO? Like, what was the role of the company?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, one of the founders was CEO. We didn't really have a centralized team. We were really quite remote. You know, we were early stage, and I think to take it to the next level as a conversation, we were all like, we need to build a New York-based team.

SPEAKER_01

Now the team has also probably grown, correct? As the business has grown.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're still quite small, um, but we have, you know, three um people in marketing. Um, chief brand officer is Dylan, Pamela's son. Love it. So he's really on the brand. And Brandon as well is super involved. So it's cool to see this team evolve. And then we have a ton of fractional consultants, which I think is really helpful for like getting that expertise you need, but not necessarily putting the weight of like full time on your PL.

SPEAKER_01

I know you're probably having to navigate a lot of those decisions, especially at the place that the brand is today. How many SKUs does the brand have right now? Five. Okay, so now it's expanded to five SKUs. And do you have a launch calendar that is set for the next like two years?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, for us fundamentally, we've been building like those core SKUs, right? Those ones that you'll always kind of come home to, as we say. We're definitely looking at a longer lead calendar and we're looking at playing around in different directions. So I really don't like to narrow the brand too much into exactly what we're gonna do, especially because we're a brand that really goes on what feels right. I love that. And what has felt right for the brand so far? So we really are like the core essentials. So think of your, you know, your go-to's, your everyday. Um, our customer demo is actually mostly 45 plus.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so when you think about the 45 plus community, they might have that one, you know, $200 serum that they splurge on that's like their go-to peptide, stem cell, whatever, you know, crazy ingredients they're throwing out there. But they want the rest of their team routine to be reliable. A lot of our customers have sensitive skin. So things that aren't gonna be reactive, um, things that aren't gonna interfere with what you're using. Think if you're using like a retinol, all those other products around it you want to support your skin barrier. So that's really where our core product strategy has been built around.

SPEAKER_01

And the customer obviously has liked all of the products that have come out so far. They're repeating customers that are buying kind of like one thing in the line, and then they've been expanding, or is there like a hero product? What are you kind of seeing with their behavior?

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting. Um, a lot of like our most sold skew is actually our entire routine. So people are coming and they're buying the entire bundle, which right now is five products and it's $198. So they're just going for it. And I think what we do really well as a brand is we talk about the system, right? You can change one thing in your routine, but if there's something that doesn't align with something else that you're using, like skincare, it's simple and more complicated if you make it, right? So if you know that there's a system that's been developed to work together, it just makes sense to go for that and really kind of like reset your skin. And so we find a lot of people just go for the whole bundle. Um, if there's one product that comes out ahead, it is our super serum. It's in a really lovely like glass bottle. People love the packaging, it's beautiful and it just makes your skin really glowy. It also has 4% niacinamide, which is just like an amazing hero ingredient because it does so much for your skin. Um, but again, we really focus on barrier support. So making sure that that's where niacinamide shows up in the routine. And, you know, if you're buying one product and you have five products with niacinamide, it can cause irritation. So we really try to educate our customer on like, hey, if you're using this, make sure not to combine it with something like that.

SPEAKER_01

And how are you actually educating them? Like, what are the tactics and things that you're doing? Is it happening through social? Is it happening through live events? Like, what is the brand doing to get the name out there? Obviously, it's in such an infancy stage, but it's growing rather fast. Um, what are the educational ways that you're kind of talking to the consumer?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, social media obviously is number one. Um, email marketing, like our emails actually do really well. I think for the older demo, they like to like open something, sit down, read it. And we do a lot of.

SPEAKER_01

How about email marketing? Like, is it long form? Are you like writing kind of like a story to them and like sharing about the ingredients? It's like you're not just trying to sell them something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. They're much more education focused. We're not like this for this, right? Like they want more. I think that older audience as well, like they just want to be educated more. I think like the millennial grew up with social media and they're so educated and Gen Z even more so. And maybe with Chat GPT, some is good, some is bad. But what's really interesting about the older consumer is they're like coming from these legacy brands that they've been using for so long. And they're just now starting to question, maybe because their daughter or even their granddaughter is like, hey, what is this? Why do you why are you still using this thing? You know what I mean? It's like, so they're they're actually starting to get really curious as a consumer, and I think that has really um honestly helped e-commerce grow for brands that are targeting this demo online.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Have you are you currently in just D2C or are you okay? Yeah. Um, are there plans to expand? Like what has it been a strategic decision to stay D2C for now?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I I still think there's so much we can do online. And honestly, I mean, look at the rise of like TikTok shop, right? Like we're we don't even sell on TikTok shop right now. We are just starting to activate that channel. So I'm super excited to see what happens there. And also when you think about the brands that target this older demo, Sansi is really positioning themselves differently because we are literally acting like kind of like a millennial brand online, but making content that is essentially resonating with all demo. Okay. Kind of all women, you know, we're really focused on um what female consumers. But that, yeah, just resonates across all age groups.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, we did a really fun garden campaign at the end of last year, this kind of like free spirit running around. Um and we really played on that, and it again, it just hit all age groups so well. And I think that's something that's really hard for brands to do online. And if you are focused on that older demo, like your social media isn't usually that strong, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's not an easy space to kind of find your way in when you're trying to balance both parts of like almost like two parts of a personality. Um, and it seems like every decision you made has been very intentional for the brand.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Where we honestly consult our community on a lot of things. Um, there's this amazing app, TYB. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's not super new, but still fairly like being adopted by brands. It's essentially a rewards program, but you get to ask your community, you know, different questions. Or like we're posting one today that's like, what bathroom sink are you? But from the brand side, it teaches us a lot about like what sink is that customer resonating with? So what interiors do they like? What kind of person are they? Is this their vacation spot or is it their home? You know, you're just kind of starting to like navigate these things in a really fun way. Um, we're rolling out a campaign now about this like hotel and this woman who's very interesting, but also her days are like ordinary, but they're not.

SPEAKER_01

And it sounds like there is an obsession around the consumer and who they are. Yeah. And getting really kind of deep in their lifestyle and understanding what makes them tick. And I think that that is something that brands who come to market really fast or try to, you know, base their whole line on a product that's viral sometimes miss the mark on because they're not obsessing over their customer, their core customer, and who they are. Or they're trying to be for everybody.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

A product for everyone is a product for no one. There we go. Say it again louder for the people in the back. Um, so you've had to, your career has been very impressive. I think it's really interesting for people listening that want to understand how do they one day get into a seat like yours with a brand that is already in the market, well known, growing rapidly, has a celebrity face behind it. But I also want to talk about that in a little bit, celebrity face, because I feel like she's so different and unique from those celebrity found founded brands. Um, but you were in product development. And tell us a little bit about how you kind of made that switch and when you started, maybe was it like you started with consulting and then you know it kind of happened from there?

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, yeah, absolutely. I so like from the education perspective, I studied chemical engineering and then I did a master's in product development, but it wasn't focused on beauty, it was really focused on, you know, kind of like solution-oriented, like how do we make better products? And so And in general, just like not in a certain category. How do we interact with things? And traditionally, like the way that we design products, they've the I guess theories around it have really been hardware and software, and beauty somewhere in between. Um so with this kind of background, I always wanted to go into beauty. Um, I didn't know anyone who worked in beauty. So the first step was get a job in beauty, right? Nope. I couldn't. I I swear to goodness, I have some really long cover letters with like billion-dollar ideas that I've submitted to like L'Oreal and Victoria's Secret, Glossier was applying at Glossier for every role they posted when they first launched, like, probably applied to like 50 jobs at Glossier for every department. Um, like software engineering, why not? Um, but no, I really feel like when you have this vision, you're just gonna kind of like figure out how to get there. And so I always saw myself running businesses. I started in the startup world, and then, like I said, I tried to apply to beauty and actually just started my own company instead. Um, so a lot of learnings there. Yeah, what was that like?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like that's like a whole nother beast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, very different. Um it's funny because I think those years of my life, I was so young, I was like turning 23, writing my first pitch deck, you know. And coming from a product background, I was very product focused. And now that I've learned so much, you know, there's just so much to learn when you come from that space and don't come from business or marketing. You really have this like transformational period where you kind of realize that brand is so much more than product, right?

SPEAKER_01

And almost nowadays we're seeing that like product being good is the baseline. Like you have to have a good product or else it won't survive regardless. Yeah. Um, and I think that really ups the ante for brands to have to think holistically about their plan in general. Yeah. And you can't just lead with, oh, it's a really good product. And it's something that you're probably very proud of, right? But at the end of the day, it's like there's a lot more pieces to the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And I was really focused on in my first business, like marketing sustainability, because I was like, oh, it's a product differentiator. It's not a purchase driver, right? So when you get to that point of sale, someone's not buying because they think it's better for the planet, although a lot of surveys say that people will. They might pay a little bit more, but we're really going off of performance. It's like what someone said or the results that you saw, or um, you know, your best friend was like, okay, this product changed my entire life. Like it, you there, that's that's not sustainability, right? And it can't be an afterthought for a brand, but it's not what's gonna sell the product. So that was a big learning for me in my first business for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because I think there's these like industry buzzwords that for so long, even like navigating it in the world of PR, I've been in beauty for almost two decades. And I absolutely love everything beauty. I love product. I've never been in product development myself, but I've gone to like RD. I've like lived and breathed the brands that I have worked for. And I've been in-house, I've been, you know, on the agency side, I've kind of done it all in the world of beauty. So kind of like opposite from you. Like I started my my world in beauty, and like that is where I've continued to go. Um, but there's these like industry buzzwords that for a long time, even as publicists, it's like we have to navigate how much we, how much storytelling we're having around these certain words or these certain aspects of the brand, what's really gonna move the needle. It's really interesting that you said that sustainability isn't necessarily like a purchase reason. Maybe someone wants to align with it because it's more like, oh, I yes, I'm aligned with that mission. Yeah. But it's not like at the end of the day, especially in the world of beauty, it's like, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And people don't want to use something that doesn't work. Totally.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. And like they're expecting certain results. And I feel like, especially with sustainable products, like when a lot of like even clean, you know, call this category. Um, the first ones really weren't that good, right? We did have like a decrease in performance, and people still associate these kind of terms with a lesser quality or lower performance product. But really, like technology and innovation, materials, packaging, even not just ingredients, have gotten so much better that I do feel like, you know, you can have a really good, clean, sustainable product these days. But if you're just marketing on that, you know, people kind of already write it off. So you've gotta, you've gotta balance it for sure.

SPEAKER_01

So, what was a learning that you kind of took away from starting that company into the role that you're in now as CEO that you've applied to even just how you approach product?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I really realize that with a brand, you have to build a world. You know, yeah, you you do need an amazing product today, but you also need an amazing brand and you need a reason to exist, right? People want to feel like they belong in that world, they relate, and also they aspire to it. So if you're not building that first, like product is amazing, but also you could be selling, you know, a bag, you could be selling jars of pickles. Like, I love hot girl pickles. Oh my god, me too.

SPEAKER_01

They do such a good job. It's so funny. I've actually brought them up before because I've been watching them for the last two years. I'm like, you go, girl. When they lost all their pickle inventory, their cucumbers, I was like, no, they've lost their cucumbers. My husband's like, what's going on? What happened? He thought something happened with my kids. And I was like, no, hot girl pickles lost their cucumbers.

SPEAKER_00

But it's so they bring you in. They bring you in in such a phenomenal way. And so I think like more of that, it's like, okay, I'm gonna, I like the girls, I'm gonna buy a pickle, you know. It's like, um, but at the end of the day, if the pickles aren't good, you probably won't buy them again, right? So we really operate brand first and also very community-driven, community first, like just having conversations with women, with Pamela. I've learned so much about beauty and just like how how people perceive it at different stages of their life, and really what kind of pulls us all together around beauty as well.

SPEAKER_01

Have you learned a lot from her? Because I think that what's really interesting is the statement that she made a couple of years ago. I I that was something that I was not shocked in a negative way, but it was shocking, I think, to the entire industry. I think in a good way, personally. I was like, this is what we need. You know, it's like we need someone who's been this icon to come out and be like, beauty is everywhere. And like there's a different way to look at it, different way to approach it because she's she's so beautiful from the inside out. So I think she's such a good embodiment of that. But it also takes bravery in the industry that she's in to show up and like not wear makeup and to really be like an advocate for skincare when you are used to being like glitz and glam of Hollywood all the time. But like, what are some of the key things that you've learned from her in building this business together?

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, you know, I so I had my business and then I kind of went behind the scenes for a bit, right? Um, and I was doing a lot of advisory work. I never saw myself, I was like, no, I'm not gonna start another brand. Like, I won't go back to consumer. Like, I had my time. Um she really inspired me to like go back, like do podcasts again, you know, do do these kind of things that I used to really enjoy that I kind of felt like lost their spark for me. Just because I truly feel like this concept that we have, this whole mission behind Sonzi, like embracing yourself, like you are the most beautiful thing you can be. It's so easily said, but it's not so easily practiced.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And the fact that she kind of like brought that back for me, I was like, wow. I I don't know. I just I was so inspired myself. I was like, I do want to share this with more people. I want to bring this feeling to more people. And how do we do that? And so that's really what Sansy's about. And it's definitely the biggest thing she's taught me, amongst other little fun things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. How did they actually find you? Like, how did you come to meet the brand? I think what's really cool about your story is that you didn't start out in beauty, you applied to all these jobs, you were like knocking on doors and then getting turned down, but then you started your own brand. You're like, I'll do it myself, screw it. And then you what met someone internally, you met Pamela through a friend. Like, how did this all kind of come to life?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So I was doing early stage advisory for numerous brands on the consumer side, but also kind of behind the scenes. I was like leaning back into the science a little bit. Biotech was taking off. I was like, you know, really fascinated by science behind the scenes. Um, again, didn't think I would go back to consumer, but it's really about the people. You know, when you just love working with the team. Um, I met the Sansi team, like I said, quite early. Just kind of started, you know, call me if you need me. Um, I knew how early they were, you know, and that's really how these things start. Like I have friends that have thought about starting companies that have consulted me and they're like, you know what? I'm so grateful for your honesty. And like, you know, it's free of charge, just like, you know, this is a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

What's like the most honest thing you've ever said to someone about their brand when they've started it up?

SPEAKER_00

To be honest, to be very honest, it's like, do you really want to do this? Is what I ask people. I'm like, it's gonna be the most crazy, exhausting, fun, challenging, exciting experience you've ever had in your life, and you really have to be ready for it. Um And yeah, there's people who've been like, yeah, you know what? I just had a baby. Or um, you know, I'm thinking I want to have more kids. Maybe I do it after I'm done. You know, it's a it's a lot of work. So I just really I'm like, do you really want to do this?

SPEAKER_01

Like blink twice if you want to get out of here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like it's you can the door's there. It's no, no pressure. We can still hang out, you know. Um, but yeah, so I I met through um some friends that I was like consulting brands that they had worked on. And yeah, just really naturally evolved from there. Like I said, I wasn't even doing product. I was just like, oh yeah, like you guys need help with this, no problem. You know, here's where to go, this is what to do. And then put in a couple of hours, started joining team calls, and then it's like, oh, we want you on products. And I'm like, it's also when your energy shifts to something. You're like, oh, I think this is my top priority now. How do I handle this? You know? And um, yeah, I just I really fell in love with like the team. I was looking forward to team calls more than I was like working on some other brands. And I was like, okay, I think, I think it's time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then you took the leap. I mean, I think that it's really interesting to be able to like dip your toe into an environment and understand if it's the right environment for you and if you're gonna be able to bring your highest and best to that place. Because when you do and you're in full alignment, that's when you really see the results. I think that's super, super critical at a stage that the brand is in currently, is to find those like early adapters who believe in the brand and want to be a part of it because the building phase, even though it's a celebrity brand, it's like it still needs to go through all the phases like every other brand out there. Um, and I want to get into that a little bit because I just feel like I see the headline. Does the world really need another celebrity brand?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Like we see that everywhere. And I think that you guys have done things really differently, which is an interesting approach. I'm sure a lot of that has been um intentional. And was there like a discussion that you had in the beginning of like the way that you were gonna approach it, of her being, she's still the face, right? Ultimately. Um, but she's obviously made certain decisions in staffing and you've created team. Like, does the world need another celebrity beauty brand? And how, and how are you kind of combating that that rhetoric?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think generally, I always say this like brand generally, like, do we need another beauty brand? Do we need another supplement brand? Do we need any of these things, right? And again, I kind of go back to this like, what is your reason to exist? And I think you learn pretty quickly when you put something out there, even before you go through all of the you know, marketing and product development, everything, you really come back to the concept of like, what is my why? And I do feel like we're in a time where beauty, everything is just so overwhelming, right? There's so many options. Um, we really wanted to give people something to like go to that didn't feel high pressure, that didn't feel like they had to change themselves. And again, when we see like a shift, even you know, I I come back to sustainability a lot because like it's an easy thing to see where we've had evolution, like an electric car, right? Like did Tesla make the electric car cool? There were other electric cars, you know. Um, and now everybody has an electric car. Like, so I really come back to this idea of like shifting and changing culture when you want to have a big movement. And when you put that together with Pamela and a beauty brand, I think something really magical happens. And I do think we need to exist. I think this is a brand that needs to exist in the time now. So and why do you think that's so important? I think we just need to get back to this idea of mindfulness and embracing that in every moment that we can. And I feel like where beauty has gone has been a little bit higher pressure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think that the the big thing with celebrity brands are that they often skip the awareness phase because they don't technically have to. And in some cases, it ends up like biting them on the other side because because they skip that phase, it's like they haven't really had to show up and create an identity for the brand outside of the celebrity or it's so synonymous. And I think that brands have a really hard time navigating that and understanding like how they're gonna show up in the market. What have been some intentional steps that you've taken to make sure that there is enough of a partnership or a balance of having her as the face and showing up in campaigns and being uniquely her, but also making sure that like the brand doesn't just have to stand on her fandom alone?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, this last campaign didn't even have Pamela. Um, and as I mentioned, like it's a family business. So uh Brandon makes an appearance in this one. Um, you know, so it really is about just like world building. And again, Pamela's part of that world, but Sansie has its own identity, its own existence, right? So we're really building it beyond her. Obviously, she's the inspiration, she's the vision, and we we really go off of that vision that she had, but what we're building goes so far beyond that. And I think, again, intentionally not putting her in every single campaign is something that we've done. Um, we also, again, like putting me as CEO was really fundamental to showing what's behind the scenes of the brand, like what's going on, uh, what the team looks like. We're, you know, we just have started posting on TikTok, so I'm sure by the time this airs, we'll have done so many silly things. But it's like, you know, yesterday we posted um throwing our box around and testing packaging. It's really what we do. Like in product development, if you need to test like a shipping box, you are throwing it around, you're taking up, throw it out a window. Like it's crazy, but it's how we test it.

SPEAKER_02

I want to be out the window where products are falling from the sky. And I'm just gonna I'm gonna reach out and catch some sonsie products.

SPEAKER_00

To show that, like, that's not something that Pamela's there for every day either. Um, but you know, we might be with her sons that day. I'd love that it's a family business like that too. Yeah. And I I think that's something, I mean, I don't know, like I can't make up my career, right? This is how I've spent my career. I've really cared about what goes on behind the scenes and I've really been passionate about like cleaning up the beauty industry.

SPEAKER_01

What are some really big swings that you've taken since you started as CEO? I know it's only been a few months, but is there like a stance that you've taken? Is there something that you're like, okay, this is gonna be our big thing? Like, what are some of that the risk almost that you've had to take so far?

SPEAKER_00

Um, so as I was stepping into the CEO position, we were like launching our first true campaign, um, which was rules of the garden, um, all the garden girls, as we spoke about. And one thing we did with this, and again, this is like leading with brand, but still, you know, highlighting product, we launched our Adapt Cream, and it comes in a fully home compostable jar that looks and feels like plastic. And I know when people think like home compostable, they think like cardboard or paper that like disintegrates and it's kind of like, oh, this isn't gonna last, and all these things, but we used a really cool new technology.

SPEAKER_01

Was that why the garden campaign came to be? Like, was it connected? It's like, okay, what came first? Like, was it product? You guys are sitting around and you're talking about products, and you're like, okay, and then this is what we're gonna, okay, how are we gonna bring this to life through a brand world? Is that like how it happened?

SPEAKER_00

It was definitely um, I mean, the product had been in development for two years, and I would say, you know, you don't really choose the campaign. I think like when you think about product, it's not very trend driven for us, but our marketing can relate to trends, right? Because it's it's a moment in time. And so with a garden campaign, you know, Pamela always says, like, my life's like a garden. And it's really where she kind of like found herself and you know, had this um next phase of life like girl from. And so we were like, okay, we have to tell that story with Sansie. And so she wrote these rules of her garden that were also kind of like the rules of skincare and beauty and and self-confidence. And so we played off of that, but again, it wasn't a product-focused campaign. We've never really thought about product first in a campaign, but we obviously wanted to integrate the idea that this was a home compostable product. So we actually had her like dig up the jar from the garden and like pull it out with a flower. So you'll kind of see this imagery that you're like, okay, why would she be pulling plastic out of the garden? Right. It just sparks curiosity that then leads you to dive a little bit deeper and learn more about that thing without being like, this is a home compostable, you know, it doesn't have to be like you you want to have fun, you want to spark curiosity, you want people to like come to your website to learn more, to go to social, etc.

SPEAKER_01

Since launching that campaign, have you seen that the customer in your community are really like responding to it? Is it increased sales? Is it increased awareness? Like, where are you seeing the benefits of really building that world?

SPEAKER_00

Across the board. Um, we also, you know, because it was our first campaign, it was like picked up all over, reposted. Like that was so much fun for us because we had never really done something like that before. Um, you know, part of our um whole campaign was this pop up with Shopify as well. So we popped up in um Soho in New York City on Green Street, funny enough, like it just all kind of made sense. Um and yeah, we did this promotion where we let these girls into the wild and like run around New York City and they were all dressed like kind of like gorilla marketing style, like Vibe marketing campaign. Yeah, and we just got content of it. Like we didn't really have a plan. We're like, oh, we'll put them on the subway and have them like run off, you know. Like we just kind of released them and then um a couple of the girls took like a garden hose and they were playing junk rope and like they were just like running around having a good time, and we're like, that's that's part of our campaign, you know. But we had people who use Sonzi products, we're like, Oh, are you in New York? Like, do you want to come be part of this? And we literally used our community in that case.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's super cool. So how did you actually like reach out to them?

SPEAKER_02

Like Instagram, okay, you know, so like sliding into the DMs. Yeah, check your DMs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, okay, I'm gonna check my DMs next and I'll I'll go and I'll run around like a garden girl and we wear some lip balm.

SPEAKER_00

We literally had someone like post yesterday, like, oh, Pamela Anderson's calling me. She wants me in her next campaign. And I was like, guys, like get that person, like tell them to come.

SPEAKER_01

This is what I love, okay? Because I saw, I mean, the funniest thing was the I saw a Dr. Pepper. I don't know if you saw this go um viral on TikTok, but this girl was like, just got on TikTok and was like, if I made a Dr. Pepper jingle, it would go like this. And she does the jingle that she made up. And then they put it in a commercial. No. And I was like, That's amazing. Like, this is the fun part of the world that we live in, right? And and a brand of that scale to be able to do that means that like they're kind of probably pushing the envelope internally because there's probably a lot of protocols that they have to go through and a ton of red tape. But if even a brand at that scale is starting to test it, I think they're learning probably from indie brands that can be a little bit more like nimble and test things out and aren't as scared.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you find that you are able to take a little bit more risk and just kind of like go with the flow because of the size of the company or because of the because of your leadership? Like, what is that factor?

SPEAKER_00

All of the above. I mean, also we're, you know, we're a small independent brand. We don't have like outside investors, so there's no one telling us no. And yeah, we can do whatever we want. And again, I think that's why we can have fun. And I think that's why we can take those risks because, like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Okay, nobody sees the video. Okay, go film the next one. You know, it's like, I don't know. I think also we don't operate out of a place of fear with these things. We get excited to do things differently, and um, yeah, we don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_01

That's really good advice. I think that what ends up happening with brands, executives at a certain stage in business when there's a lot of change, when there's like these new and exciting ideas, people get really nervous about how well, how are people gonna take it? And one thing I've seen and I've learned about this industry, especially now, and a major point of difference now from even 10 years ago, is like people are okay that it's like not that serious and that like you're just trying something fun. I think people are a lot more like raw on social media, people are testing things out, people are being a lot more honest, um, which I guess can be scary for a brand to open themselves up to a bit more scrutiny, but at the same time, it's like if you don't take a big swing, you'll never have a chance for a home run.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Do you find that as you look at the year ahead with the brand? Yeah. And not operating from a place of fear and having like kind of your own internal like pillars and and mission of who you are as a as a woman, as a CEO, um, do you find that there is a possibility that like your vision might be different from what the brand initially was, but that it's like a good thing to take the brand on that vision, or do you feel like it's been aligned in alignment the whole time?

SPEAKER_00

No, I I think we've been pretty aligned. You know, again, I think, first of all, just like Pamela really knows who she is. And so basing the brand vision off of that from the beginning was always very clear. I think as I stepped into the CEO role, we really found out who we are as we started growing up. You know what I mean? Um putting together our first campaign was like a very big deal. And in doing that, I think it was just like, you know, it wasn't one of those campaigns that wasn't well thought out. We really took the time to think about this one. We were planning it for so long. But it was one of those things that, like, when we did it, we're like, wow, that felt really good, guys. Let's do it again, you know? It's like you get a taste of it. Yeah, you're like, okay, that was really fun. And we were also like watching the the first cut of the video of Rules of the Garden. We're like, we're giggling, we're like, we're like, oh my God, that's so cute. And then we're like coming up with all these ideas, you know. So we're like, okay, we should, we should do this again. Um, and I think, yeah, it's again, it was like a kind of a risk for the brand to just, I don't know, I it felt very like clean and minimal before. And we're like, wait a minute, guys, we're actually really fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And we have to show this. And Pamela, too, right? She's like a little bit silly. Um, she's very lighthearted, she's so self-confident, but like being around her, I'm like, okay, we just this we need to reflect this within the brand. And I think, you know, more of that will come out. And as we all spend more time with her and get more content, I think it'll be really fun.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's fun to have a brand that can understand that the world of beauty can be so joyful and so fun and doesn't have to be overly serious. Um, it's great to when founders or the faces of the brand also really like believe that to the their core. Yeah. Um, I think that it is an interesting world to navigate, balancing science with fun or balancing demographics with what works now to certain like younger generations. So you've probably found yourself navigating a few of those things in that path of like, who are we?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And a lot of the times, honestly, I feel like some brands sell out and then they're like, oh, well, we are seeing this, like we're gonna, yeah, let's just like lean in really heavily into this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And all of a sudden they're like losing their why a little bit. Yeah. How will you navigate staying on track with your why as the brand continues to grow?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think again, like at the core, being a friends and family company is like how I call us. It's how we started. I think we'll always have those roots.

SPEAKER_01

And why do you call it a friends and family company? Tell me a little bit about the culture.

SPEAKER_00

It's really like Pamela and her sons, you know, and a couple of their friends were like the first people working on this. And again, like I met the brand through friends. So it it felt very natural and organic. It wasn't like, oh, you've got to meet this, or it wasn't through an investor. Like a lot of times I'll have an investor connect me to a founder that like wants some mentorship or something. Um, so this always felt like, you know, if you were gonna start like, I don't know, an Etsy shop with your friends or pop up a farm stand and sell cookies, I don't know, you know, obviously it's much bigger than that, but just kind of that like, oh, I'm so excited, like we're doing this today, like let's talk about our products. It's like when we did the event with Shopify, we were all just like kind of like, oh, this is fun. And I was out there on the floor the whole time and people are like, Well, what do you do? And I was like, Well, I made these, and I'm also the CEO now, and it's like, you know, it's really I I think it's really just like this homegrown element that like we won't ever pull away from because it's just who we are as people. And as we grow and expand our team, you know, like I've hired people fractionally that I've worked with before that worked on my brand that have known me for six, seven, some in some cases 10 years.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so we just know and operate out of a place of trust from behind the scenes, and I think that translates, you know, to the forefront as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I agree. I feel like I see it already in the campaigns and in your leadership style. Was there a really big I guess what was the biggest kind of like risk or hit or miss in product development that you've made? One of the most expensive mistakes that you've made as a business for Sonzi specifically.

SPEAKER_00

I think I mean we were developing something that hasn't come to market. I don't know if it will, but we kind of like got it to the finish line. We spent so much time and energy, and then we just didn't really feel like it was a fit for the brand. I think also product development, what's what's so tricky is you're developing something years in advance. Like you have the concept, and then it takes so long to execute if you want to do it really well. Um, obviously, there's kind of like fast beauty, like there is fast fashion, and we're not doing any of that. I also very much um spend a lot of time diving into the ingredients and what's the best packaging we can do and all of these things. So for me, I think just the time more than the energy, like it's still a very important resource for you and your team. But to get something to like, okay, we can go into production and be like, this isn't right for us or the brand and it doesn't make sense and we don't want to do it, it's like that's okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Is that where you feel like you've had to have like your product development hat turn into like the CEO hat? Like, has there been a clear, especially in this transition of like, okay, your whole career was in product development and then consulting and now as the CEO, have there been moments of time where you're like, okay, wait, I have to take off my product development hat for a second, I have to make a decision as a CEO? Yes. Okay, definitely. Do you have an example of one of those times?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, it, you know, I think packaging. So when we think sustainability again, um, as beauty brands, people go to packaging almost every single time. And there's so much more to product than packaging. And you also have to think about how people will perceive that product. And so, again, as I mentioned, the the Adav Cream packaging, it looks like plastic. So if people aren't reading and they're just clicking or they see it in an ad, like they're gonna think it's in a plastic package. And so many times we've learned as well from people commenting, like, oh, why is this sustainable brand using all plastic? Right. So we really have to consider that when we make something, and also our positioning is that a brand is like more accessible luxury. It's a little bit more expensive than Prestige, but compared to those women who are coming from like a La Mer, right? A $200, $300 face cream, um, it's actually really because what's the price point? It's our lip balm is 22, that's our most affordable product, and then our serum is 64. Okay. Um and so when you look at those price points, you're expecting luxury. And there's a lot in consumer psychology associated with weight of a product. So if something's packaged in glass, people perceive it as more luxurious, and it has nothing to do with the fact that it's in glass.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I'm like, I want to know every single thing about consumer habits.

SPEAKER_00

But if you put it even in something that's more sustainable than glass, like this material, that idea of luxury is then kind of not so intuitive. And so we really have to consider that, and that's why we involve our community in this decision making is like, let's test it out, let's really see what people think about it without telling them anything. Like first impressions, say nothing. You know, you really have to have kind of this like blind testing when you're going through this process.

SPEAKER_01

And have you completely reworked products because of what the community has said?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like some of the decisions behind the scenes, like I would love to put everything in this like new sustainable packaging, and I hope that we can still do that someday. But I do think if we were to put everything in it, people would be like, why did you switch from glass to plastic? Right. So we really have to consider it. There's also um behind the scenes development costs to doing all of this. And so I talk a lot about like collaboration over competition when it comes to moving the industry forward in this way. And um I think it's gonna take a lot of brands banding together to make it economical in certain cases to actually be able to bring these things to market in a really beautiful way that is on par with what our consumers expect from other materials.

SPEAKER_01

So, do you really think it's possible that brands can band together and do this? Or do you think it kind of feels far away?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think we can. All right. And if you're a brand out there, you can call me and we can work on it together.

SPEAKER_01

Ding, ding, ding. Um, so what do you want the world to know about Sansi and what you're building?

SPEAKER_00

I, I mean, honestly, just I want people to like take the weight off or pressure all of this off of the idea of beauty and this external idea of beauty. And really, like what makes you feel most you is what we want you to get back to. So I literally did this exercise last week where I like closed my eyes and I was like, Where am I when I feel most me? What am I doing? Am I eating? Am I drinking something? Am I doing something active? Like, where in the world am I? What am I wearing? Like, find that version of you and then associate it with your morning ritual or how you go to bed. Like, you just got to come back to that place where you really feel like yourself. And that's what we want Sansi to represent.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. That's a good little exercise that I think everyone listening can do because I think getting really clear on who you are and what you stand for also reflects like the products you're purchasing and how you want to feel when you're using them. And there's been a massive disconnect and overconsumption in the world of beauty because of like our exposure to so many things. And I think when you can like take a beat, understand who you really are and like what's going to appeal to the side of you that you want to like bring into the world, whether it's like in the morning or as you're like getting ready for bed. That's yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. All right. Well, we do a little segment called Branded Bander. Okay. And it's gonna be quick. You can only don't overthink it. Uh, one answer, and and then we move on. Okay. All right. What's your one holy grail product? If you lost it tomorrow, you would need to replace it right away. Oh, the the Adapt Cream. It's changed, it's changed my life. What's one product or trend you're officially breaking up with and never buying again?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, um like scrubs, like exfoliating scrubs. I I don't know why. Like I keep buying them for my body, and then I'm like, wait, what am I doing? It's not good for my face. Why why am I doing it with my body? No.

SPEAKER_01

Founder led brand or celebrity brand? Can you be both?

SPEAKER_02

I think you can. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Organic influencer seating or paid partnerships?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. This one's tricky. I'm gonna go with organic. But I do think people should get paid. So there we go. Again, there's balance.

SPEAKER_01

Virality or longevity? Longevity. Big budget campaign or scrappy idea with cultural relevance. Scrappy idea. What's the most overrated word in marketing right now?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, can I say longevity? Maybe absorption. Absorption's a new one.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00

So that's coming, it's trending now.

SPEAKER_01

One word that'll define the next era of beauty brands.

SPEAKER_00

Authenticity.

SPEAKER_01

If you were launching a brand tomorrow, what would be the first thing you'd obsess over?

SPEAKER_00

Biocompatibility, I think. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. Well, thank you so much. Where can we find you and where can we follow along with all these amazing campaigns that you're launching?

SPEAKER_00

So Instagram, Sonzi Skin, TikTok, Sonzy Skin. Our website is sonzyskin.com. Okay. Amazing. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

This podcast is for informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of MMC or any of its affiliates. Guest appearances do not constitute an endorsement.