How Women Business Owners Can Access Capital and Build Wealth with Sarah Chen-Spellings

In this episode of Brandidly Speaking, we sit down with Sarah Chen-Spellings, investor & capital strategist, to talk about why understanding finances is a game‑changer for women business owners. 

Sarah entered the business world at just 25 and quickly found herself in rooms where major investment decisions were being made. As a young Malaysian woman building her career, she noticed a striking pattern: the people making these decisions were almost always men. That realization exposed a major gap in the industry and ultimately inspired her to help change it. 

Through her work building Beyond The Billion—mobilizing over $1 billion into women-founded companies—Sarah brings a rare, insider perspective on how wealth is actually built: from ownership and decision-making to long-term value creation.

In this episode, Sarah shares the power she’s gained from financial knowledge, what she looks for when investing in a business, and what helps companies succeed long after they receive funding. This conversation is a must‑listen for women founders, entrepreneurs, and business owners who want to better understand investing, capital access, and how financial knowledge creates long‑term opportunity.

New podcast episodes drop every Wednesday, hosted by Cris Gordon, Head of Beauty at MMC.  

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Can you walk the audience through a little bit about a venture fund and what it really means and then how you kind of assess the right companies to distribute that?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

The moment really stuck up for me when I was 25 years old, and my first check was a $30 million check. When I looked around as an eager, imagine a bright-eyed Malaysian girl doing international business pretty early on in her career, uh, looking around for role models, and frankly, did not see anyone who looked like me, spoke like me. Where were the women? Mission here on all these platforms is for to encourage women to build big billion-dollar businesses where you then get a return.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I want you to have a hundred million dollars in your bank account. It's a brand new day, and you know what that means. It's time for another episode of Brandedly Speaking with your host, Moi, Chris Gordon. Today we sit down with Sarah Chen Spellings, the co-founder of Beyond the Billion. We dive deep into women in wealth, what it really means to build a brand that lasts, and what to look for when you're thinking about investing. You won't want to miss this. So, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so excited to have you on Brandedly Speaking. You are someone that I look up to so much. I have seen you speak all over the place. I also will never forget a video that I watched of you of like you as a little girl and like kind of going through your journey and the growth that you've had and the way that you've changed the lives of so many by just talking about wealth, investing. I think that the truth of the matter is that women don't always openly talk about the financial part of business, whether they're either kind of siloed out of the conversation or they don't feel as comfortable, but you've been empowering so many people to invest in female-focused industries, but also so many women to just like take control of their own wealth and their own power. So I'm just really eager for you to join today because you're gonna be a wealth of knowledge for our audience.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Ooh, I like that. Wealth of knowledge for Chris Gordon. And of course, I'm in. Slime me up.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I love it. All right, well, let's jump right into it. You are the co-founder of Beyond the Billion, the world's first global consortium of venture funds dedicated to investing in women-owned companies. When did you realize you wanted to focus on investing in women-owned companies?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Uh, well, I'll say it's been quite a journey. Um, but the moment really stuck up for me when I was 25 years old and my first check was a $30 million check. And uh I was in Malaysia, so I was working for a public listed company. I was hiring number three or number five, so early days of building a corporate venture capital unit and working on strategic investments that would unlock value for this 13 billion behemoth, right? And we were looking at what we could do, how do we innovate, how do we keep us relevant using the power of capital. And I realized very early on that, you know, when I looked around as an eager, imagine a bright-eyed Malaysian girl doing international business pretty early on in her career, uh, looking around for role models. And frankly, did not see anyone who looked like me, spoke like me. Um, and they were, you know, essentially a bunch of suits that presented differently. And I felt almost that I had to emulate that. So I did have a chapter of becoming, instead of entering my soft era, I was in my hard era, wearing a lot of black. So you commented on my jeans here, and I would have never worn something like this. But of course, we are in self by self west, so we got the memo. But um, you know, it it was a lot of being the outlier and questioning where were the women.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, and it's also really hard to navigate that when you're in your youth kind of trying to understand, it's definitely intimidating also because you're just trying to get your footing, approve yourself. And I feel like so many women are kind of navigating that, whether it's, you know, they're climbing the corporate ladder and they're trying to understand where they fit in. And I feel like there has been a nice change in the more recent years of women starting to like explore their own power. And I think largely in part because of conversations that you lead, that's what we need in the world, right? Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

And hopefully the not just the conversations, but the actions that follow that, right? You know, the work that I do is catalytic. Uh, we did mobilize. So you thank you for the introduction there. Uh, I I have just closed that chapter because we did reach our goal of mobilizing a billion dollars for women, founder, women-led companies that are building, you know, billion-dollar businesses. Uh, companies like Canva by Melanie Perkins, that is really disrupting not just digital design, right? Uh, but really democratizing what it means to be a pro-user. You know, think about um businesses that were very focused on using just Microsoft, Google. They're disrupting that, you know, in docs as well. Think about PowerPoints that you sent me. I'm sure they were made on Canva as well. So women like Melanie, who were seen as the outlier, are folks that I'm drawn to, right? Because I see uh how all patterns of the past did not include you and I today, how we look, how we present. And that doesn't discount the talent, the opportunity, um, and just the innovation, right? I'm I'm I'm very bullish on the innovation that women bring because we have a different perspective. And I know we'll get into it, but I was just sharing with you, you know, whether I'm I'm such a geek. Um I love studying businesses, and that's why I also have my podcast, Billion Dollar Moves, where we normalize the success of women and men, right, at the billionaire level. So I'm I'm speaking with the top 1%. And companies like Aura, you know, it's a small Finnish company that started on Kickstarter and was targeting wearables, you know, uh athletic wear. But the moment they uh brought on an investor like Erie Kim from Forerunner, uh, and she was on the board, uh they started really doubling down on the women market. They realized, hey, women wanted to know their fertility and we could measure some of these biometrics. Uh, they partnered with Maven Clinic, uh, another female founded brand, right, that we work with, and we're able to share that biometrics data for women and look at the impact that it's unlocked. So Iri herself actually shared that she was able to get pregnant because of the help of something like this, but just opening up them, I mean, this is a 5.2 billion valuation company, okay? Or and 500 million in recurring revenue, and I'm sure um it's grown from there. They they've sold over 5 million rings. Uh, they did uh talking about brand. Every single person I know have that. That's right. Talking about brand, uh, they also partnered with Gucci and sold the ring for three times the price.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

And you know what's funny that you say that because I was just thinking about how it's also helped other female founded companies or other businesses, because there are companies that are like small jewelers who have created kind of like the bands that go over it or the covers like in gold with diamonds. So other female-founded businesses are also benefiting from the fact that Aura's turned into kind of a lifestyle brand. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And it's a billion-dollar opportunity when they widen the consumer set. So, you know, we talk a lot about marketing, right? And marketing is uh really to me, it's a growth engine. It's so important for businesses to really have uh ever-evolving strategy. I mean, we're changing at such a rapid, uh, rapid pace. Consumers are getting more sophisticated. And also, I think what I'm seeing, the trend of personalization, customization, and and um sort of having that sense of ownership by the consumer. That's why we're seeing a lot of this today, right? Why are wearables, you know, we're such a, we're in this like biohacking era as well, right? But even the word biohack, I was looking at one investment recently, biohack almost has a masculine tone to it. But women are such a huge opportunity. Could we rebrand that? How do we think about the words that we use to even create that market that isn't?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah. So your mission goes really beyond just the investment. It's more about changing the market as a whole, the way that we're communicating things, the messaging that we have. And are you advising brands in any capacity on how to control that narrative?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, I mean, you know, as an investor, we want our brands to succeed, right? And all of them, I mean, I do the unsexy work as well. So some of them, you know, are financial payments that are behind. So it's not founder-let like Poppy. In fact, I was with Ellison Ellsworth two days ago in Austin talking about this. You know, there are founder-led brands that do really well, uh, but it's also a choice for the founder. There are very unsexy businesses as well that I really love where the founder is not necessarily having to put herself forward. Um, and so for me, it's really what works for that market, what appeals? Are you really uh trying to take the consumer or the enterprise? You know, where are we going here? I mean, Sunira Madani, a common friend here, um, remember she had Fat Merchant. Uh-huh. And uh I I am also a marketing aficionado, not to your level, but I did love uh Seth Godin's Seth Godin's Purple Cow.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

And that to me was a purple cow strategy, right? How do you stand out when every brand in in banking, in finance, was blue, think about American Express, has the word card in it, all that little things like that matter. This is the fat merchant. Of course, she rebranded afterwards, but you know, things like that matter. And I do work with uh our portfolio companies uh and our product funds that are building in different areas, and of course, brand is always part of that.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Well, it's so funny that you say that because nowadays I think everyone feels so worried that they have to get in front of the camera, that they have to build a personal brand in order to build their company. And in a lot of categories, you do, or you at least want to be encouraged to be able to tell your story. And I'm a big advocate for that, of course, because you always need to be able to work a room in some capacity so that you can get your brand out there. But as you call it the kind of like unsexy categories, can you dive a little bit into what some of these categories are where you feel like you don't necessarily have to have a founder at the helm that is so prevalent in the branding and what other tactics they're using to get the brand out there?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Hmm, good question. Um so if we look at enterprise, um let me think about that in a way that'll be useful. So I'll take a very strange turn on this, but I think this could uh help help your founders think through it. So I used to uh work in alternative oil, right? So bio-based oils uh long before sustainability was cool. And now with everything that's happened, uh it's making a killing. Let's just put it there, you know, like 60% margins, things like that. Um, and when you think about bio-based oil, you're usually competing on price, performance. And this was long before sustainability was almost like regulated, things like that. The founders that I was meeting in these product lines, and actually one of my first few investments was in uh biobased lubricants for cars, so very unsexy. But think about the volume here, ladies. Think about the volume. This was a great business that we eventually exited as well. Uh, and the founder was not, you know, using his face uh to market the brand. It was really the quality of what this presented. And when I think about the strategies here, it's really understanding your consumer demographics and what is important to them, what will move the doll, especially if you're trying to gain market share to make that switch, right? What will push your consumer over the line to make that switch? It's very different compared to like Poppy. You know, we love Alison, we love seeing her. Um, it's a fun brand. She created, what was it, campaigns with colleges to make even Poppy parties. Think about that, right? The colors. You always now we can imagine the color straight away. She's always in pink. We associate that. Uh, but of course, we did talk about then as a founder that then exited. How do you then transition the brand to standalone? That's something to think about. Whereas for a more unsexy, so going to like bio-based oils, uh, we had a great exit where um, you know, it was meeting what the consumer wanted in the end from a performance price standpoint. And it was really making sure that this was communicated in a way that was received and um making that very clear.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

That's great. And what do you consider a successful exit from an investment standpoint? What is like kind of the gold, like the golden standard of getting? I know, and it's hard because I'm sure there's different successes at different stages depending on the stage that you're investing in. Yeah. And for the audience that doesn't know anything about investing, is there a kind of like a starting point on what you'd consider a successful exit?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Well, first of all, you need to build a profitable business. I think uh back in the day, uh in the highs of 2020, 2021, when the valuations were all-time high, uh, we were sort of building growth for gross sake, you know, uh profits were not as important as, say, market share, right? But, you know, a successful exit, uh, I just I'll just quote the numbers that Chris Saka came back with with his investment in Uber. You know, we had uh lower carbon capital. Chris Saka's like a legendary investor, Forbes Midas. His little fund when he first started and invested in Uber, uh, what else? Uh Twitter back in the day, X, right? Um it made 250 X.

unknown 12:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

So to me that's a great exit. Yeah, but not all exits are like that. We'll take it. I mean, for an investor, we want to see the financial return. I think it's important to understand who your investors are as well. I mean, speaking to the brands here on your on your podcast, um, you know, choosing a partner financially is so important. It's, you know, I'll say to get to that level, the exit takes at least 10 years. There are outliers, but it's at least 10 years. So you're going into bed with this partner uh that frankly may last longer than a lot of American marriages.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So think about that, right? What are you, uh what's important to this partner? It's not just a check, uh, you know, and I quote Allison just because it's it's a fresh date, but there was someone who offered them early on $200,000, but had no network, nothing to bring to the table other than that cash when she really needed that uh market intros, right? And knowing that, especially in beverage, and this is important as well, once you're building for an exit, and I believe we all should think about that, right? You can have lifestyle businesses. But my mission here on all these platforms is for to encourage women to build big billion-dollar businesses where you then get a return. I want you to have a hundred million dollars in your bank account, yeah, right? Like wired to your bank account the way Ann Mallam had that from Solid Core. She's amazing. She's amazing. Talk about brand there, right? Solid Core. Think about that, right? And then the colors are also clear. Yeah blue, black, and you know, her story from that. But it's she was swear, she was very clear about taking money off the table, taking money off the table at each each time. And that has enabled her to now do more work. Uh, and she she does some work with me with uh bringing women together and all that. And I'm so excited uh for a lot more women to have that conviction and their ideas to build to that billion dollar exit to then uh continue to create impact.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Well, it's so interesting you say that because I think that this is all about a shift in mindset. I was listening to Erica Aquino actually speak yesterday at Cherub. They had an amazing kind of like founder heaven where they talked with founders and funders and a panel where they asked, somebody asked a really good question. It was a question from the audience, and they said, Do you ever invest in a business that is just a lifestyle business that like doesn't really have a plan to exit, but you know, you're okay with maybe getting distributions and you just want to be a part of the mission. And basically she said, like, I've had someone who has pitched me and was like, Well, I just want to like buy a house or go on this vacation or do this thing with my family. And she's like, as an investor, like, that's not number one, our responsibility. But number two, what a lot of people don't realize is like that's because they want a certain lifestyle. And I think sometimes people can be short-sighted on that lifestyle, and they don't realize that by actually thinking bigger, thinking about your exit and your path to exit, you can live that lifestyle comfortably. Yes, it takes a little bit more time and maybe some rounds of investments and going through an uphill battle sometimes to build that, but there's a lot more wealth on the other side of those decisions. So, what can be scary can and should be embraced by women who are ready and like up for the challenge because then you can think about your, you know, your lifestyle as a whole and how it's gonna change the course of your family's life.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah. And I do want to be realistic, right? Not to be a Debbie Downo here, but nine out of ten startups fail. So we expect that. As investors, we typically take a portfolio approach. Uh, and I know Erica pretty well. So uh it depends on where, you know, I work with families and founders now that have had exits to plan, you know, what is important to me. How do I generate the income impact that I still want? And what does legacy look like for me now that I've built my wealth? There are some um pockets of philanthropy, impact dollars, programmatic dollars, mission-related investments, which can fund companies that are not going to produce that. I mean, okay, 250X is an outlier. He was on Forbes MIT's list, but he's my idol, right? Chris Saka. Uh, but to build to that level, you know, that won't be in the pool of this is my philanthropy, this is my impact. There are pools of capital available there where the expectation is then different, just to answer your question on what is a successful exit, right? So, some uh, for example, Melinda Gates with Pivotal Ventures, she's investing for financial return and profit and purpose can meet, but she also has a pocket of philanthropy that works in activating other areas in maternal health, for example, right? But then she has her then investment dollars through Pivotal, managed by Erin Harklessmore. So I encourage those of you interested to think about how can you build with profit and purpose in mind to listen to my conversation with Erin. Uh, but it is possible to build, say, in like maternal health where there's so many problems to be solved and business opportunities. So I think you need to be very clear on what it is that you're building and sell that vision. And I mean, seriously, if you're coming to me to say, I want to build this to build to buy my house, I understand where you're coming from. Uh, but I'm not perhaps, you know, most investors might not be interested in that. Because if I'm it's opportunity cost of dollar, right? I have a million dollars to spend. Where's the best use of my dollars here? Because now I'm taking taking it out from, you know, you think about risk capital. This is my risk capital. Should I give it to Chris to help her live a good life and then create the impact that I know she can create, or can I put this toward the mandate that I believe can activate further dollars?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, yeah. So it's like an evaluation. Yeah. So when you talk about diversifying a portfolio, can you walk the audience through a little bit about a venture fund and what it really means and then how you kind of assess the right companies to distribute that to sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

So um, the business of a venture fund, by the way, is not always sexy. Uh, not everyone who runs a venture fund is rich. They are managing money. It is a 220 model, and what that means, it's a 2% management fee. So hypothetically, I have $100 million that I'm managing. I get 2% to cover my overhead, right? So those are the fees. 20% is what I get when I sell within the portfolio company and minus all costs. Uh, the profit that I get, and I'm simplifying this, right? The profit that I get from those returns. So let's say I make 150, you know, from the 100 they gave me, that 50 million, 20% is what I take as my carry. Very simplified, Tim, right? This tax, all of these things. And 80% is what my LPs, the limited partners, get.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

So that is the business of a venture capital fund. And can you break down the difference between a venture capital fund and then like an SPV?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Sure, absolutely. So a venture capital fund um is, and let me let me get into venture capital and all the different uh nuances there. Um so this hundred million, right? So venture is risk capital. The purpose of a venture capital fund is to generate these returns based on an investment mandate. So let's say I have a consumer venture fund where I'm investing in consumer tech companies. Everything that I evaluate has to be based on this investment mandate, based on whatever I put together, which my LPs, my limited partners, invested in, right? So then my job as a GP, a general partner, the venture capitalist who's managing the fund is to deploy within a time frame. So typically the life of a fund, this is important, is 10 years, typically. And then there's 10 plus one plus one, there's extension and all of that. The problem that we're now facing in venture is the lack of liquidity because failure rate is high and the markets are not as they could be where there are enough buyers or exits via IPO to create that liquidity. So how do it liquidity means how do I get the money out, right? So let's say you as an individual, you give me a million, I have a hundred people who gave me one million, I need to return that money plus some. Yeah. Right? So that is my job as a venture capitalist. Uh now the structure of that actually is an LLC, just like a company. Okay. Uh, and it's uh, you know, there are multiple structures here. So SBV, just going back to your question, is a special purpose vehicle which is often used to mobilize pretty quickly. So you might hear this term rare housing of deals. Uh, venture capital is not an easy feat because you have to raise, I mean, to raise a hundred million dollars, not anyone can do it. It takes time. Uh, there's a lot of next generation money. So um, frankly, people that come from wealth, it's easy for them. They have dad's money, mom's money to put in a little bit, and then they raise maybe they've had a good track record as well. Uh, some have been able to do it really, really well. But it takes time, right, to get to that 100 million. And so sometimes the pushback, especially for female fund managers, which I care about because this matters, is you don't have a track record. And what that means is I've not seen you give me that 250 X before, the way Chris Sokka has. Right. So, Chris Saka, as an example, after investing and creating that return, everybody wants to give him money because they believe that he has proven himself. Women. Remember, have not had the opportunity, privilege to be in these rooms. We were only, you know, able to think about just even signing loans on our own, right? It's not too long for that.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

And like getting a credit card. Right. Like it was like.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

So we were never even think about myself in Malaysia. Like I didn't see women making those investment decisions back in the day, right? And so this needs to change because that's how we get women to then write the check. Because you need people to believe in you and have that track record. So what they do, coming back to the SPV, uh, which is what Cherub does, right, uh, is they roll out smaller vehicles. So it's a, as the name speaks, special purpose vehicle, uh, to then invest for this special purpose. So it could be a single deal. It's quicker to do deal-by-deal sometimes if you can't get to the 100 million and then roll it up. So I've had a fund manager actually in New York, she spun out from Inside Partners, which is a very reputable firm, but she still struggled to raise her fund. So what she did was she invested in Canva through SPV. It's still venture, right? Uh, but she used SPV, uh the SPV as a vehicle to close the deal. So she had X amount of million, all right. I can't disclose that, that was invested into Canva that was then rolled up into the fund when there was a bigger allocation. So it's just a tool in the financial toolkit. I mean, you know, for me, money is a tool, right, for all of us to use and leverage. So it's just a mechanism to then create the end result.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

And so what I'm also hearing is that there is a little bit of calculated risk and trust and practice and kind of like exercising that muscle, if you will. What are small ways that women can start doing that? That's maybe like, I'm not ready to hand over money into a VC or I'm not even ready for an SPV. But like, are there little things that they can be doing every single day that kind of makes them work their way up to these financial decisions and this financial trust? Because I think that's like what it really is is financial trust, trust in yourself, trust in the people that you're investing in. Um, but what are little things that they can do?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, so you know, I think we vote every day for what we believe in as a consumer. So making conscious choices, even as a consumer. And frankly, uh, you know, this is not investment advice. I don't know your personal uh situation, but I always encourage, even when I look at my niece and nephews, right, to just start a uh dummy account on Tal Schwab or whatever, to just test it out, right? To have a uh play portfolio, even as children, and this matters especially for us as mothers, to encourage that thinking of, oh, I can take calculated bets here, and I'm able to justify why. So, you know, I've had my nephew invest in Roblox. And the question is, why did you invest in Roblox? Because I play it every day, I see the potential, I see how much we're spending, the parents are spending, and it's a huge company, right? So when you exercise that muscle by making these little choices, I think, uh, as a consumer, and then, you know, uh taking different platforms, Cherub is one I I would encourage uh women to look at as well because they're making it, you know, Jacqueline is doing her best to really make it as friendly as possible so that you can uh really understand what it takes and what this looks like, and it's consumer friendly, right? That's the UI UX that she's designing. But things like that, um, getting in the rooms where conversations are not just about um, I don't know, you know, I I frankly I'm I'm uh families through and through, right? I've created Lean In and Asia and built all that. And sometimes I find in certain rooms we we underestimate the power of you and I in this room, in this moment, yeah. When we can be talking about money, our decisions, and all that. And it's just about practicing that, yeah, right? So instead of talking about, uh, and this is important, I know work-life balance is important, but I'm here to push us to talk about we all have this problem, so we know we have to talk about it. We need to get therapy, we need a support system, we need our husbands and our partners to be co-parents and play all the important roles. But when you and I in a room, you know, Seneura and I had like a couple of minutes together, we were talking about billion-dollar decisions. And that's where I want us to move towards. I want the feminism movement to use capital and conviction as their baseline. You know, Erica and I will talk about like, okay, Sarah, you sent me this deal, but actually, did you know this and this and this? It came out with my diligence, right? We should be having these kind of real conversations, which encourage us in community, and I think this is also important. If we are at the stage where, and again, like, don't this is risk capital, right? You could lose it all. So if you don't have much to spend, let's focus on getting you to be a high-income earner, build your business to a significant level, and then plan accordingly. Yeah. Right. So you you also need to phase yourself. Wealth is a very personal journey, it is also an identity journey. Uh, and I think you need to really be um comfortable with money and think of it. I think sometimes uh women are uh distanced from money, right? I mean, it comes from, frankly, systematic issues. It's not our fault. I never want to say it's women's fault. Why are we brought up to think that we have to get somebody else to sign this, co-sign with this? That was history. Yeah. Right? And we're in a new era now. I'm so excited for this era because I call this the modern matriarch era. This is my thesis. Women with capital and conviction are going to change the world in ways that I cannot wait.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

I know I will transformative. I always say never underestimate a woman with something approved. That's right. Because it's like you're just like laser focused. You're like bringing all of your passion to every single thing that you do. And it's funny because to your same point, I, even though I love to talk, obviously, I'm a Tom gal and I can chit-chat all day. I actually don't love small talk. And it's because I think, like as a high-performing woman, to me, I want to like talk about deeper things. I'm like, if we can sit down for 20 minutes and we can fix all these things or we can be moving forward in some way. And it's there's this whole idea that like you have to be good at small talk and all the little things. And I like sometimes make jokes and I'll even like say to my husband, like, I'm like, do I really I don't, I can't go to the birthday party for like my kid because I'm like, I don't want to just like make the small talk. Like, and then if I come off too intense because I'm like talking about stuff, like people are gonna be like, whoa, she's a lot, you know. But it's because I think that it's still really hard for women who want to have conversations that are a lot bigger to number one, feel comfortable. And then it's also scary for the women who feel more comfortable having small talk because they're not yet ready to talk about certain things. It's it becomes really difficult. It's kind of like where you see this like line in the sand of like almost like the discrepancy and where we need to continue to empower these conversations because we can still have small talk and chat and get to know one another and talk about our kids and family, but also we can be like making real power moves in like at the PTA meeting, right? Or at the, you know, you go to like the pool in your community. It's like you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Chris, I want to I wanna just say that the mommy and me um groups are some of the most powerful groups I've seen. Yeah, right. They're investing in each other. I mean, this I I was just with two women who are out of Ceno uh who invested in each other, and now she's distributing in Whole Foods, Target, all of the above. And it's not because she has all the credentials, but it's because, you know, they live nearby and she sees the work this entrepreneur is putting into it and believes in her. And by being in places, and I think, you know, we all have limited time and resources, right? So I choose very consciously where I spend my time and how I spend it. And what I want to encourage your listeners, especially as they're building their iconic brands, and they will, is to think about how, what do I need to change to make this even bigger, right? I mean, services business, if it's if you're selling your time for your labor, there's only so much that you can scale. This is why tech, I believe in tech, um, capital, and media. Because you create one time, you can distribute, chop it up, and it lives there forever. It's an asset that you don't know uh where it will continue to grow and how it will create opportunities for you, right? I've had conversations on my podcast when I just got it started years ago that now I'm investing with this guy, right? Because it's like, hey, I remember she cares about this. So it's in the intangibles, but I want you to think very carefully about the use of your time. And you want to spend as much, I'm I'm a family gal, right? Like you need to spend as much time as possible with your family. Our time here is limited. We don't know. Yeah. Do things that matter, do things that move the doll. And so think about the rooms that you're in, right? Are you in a room that is how is this uh serving the bigger picture, is what I say, right? And and push ourselves to really, if this doesn't fit, like I've outgrown, frankly, a lot of my friends. And I found, you know, there was a one phase of my life where I wanted to, you know, reignite those, those uh friendships and all that, but I just realized we're just at a different wavelength, and that's okay. We were great for each other at this chapter, and now um I just need to spend my time here. Like I, you know, if I'm in Davos in January, I can't be doing like New Year's in Kabul.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Those are real choices that you have to make, but each decision compounds and creates the results. So, you know, I I think you have to sit with yourself, and self-awareness is super important, even as you're build-building your brand, right? I've come to a point where, you know, I've sat with myself and thought about the outcomes. Like, okay, we've done this for X amount of years. Will this create the outcome that I want? Has it been proven to me again and again that it's it's creating possible to do this? If the answer is no, then you have to let it go. And you have to move on to the next thing and evolve and build and and think about how the world has changed.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, and a lot of people have a hard time letting certain things go. Like, I've even had to learn that over the years. I get very hung up on something, and like I'm like a dog with a bone, and it's really hard to let certain things go because you get it in your mind or it's something you've been doing. And I also think that like a lot of women struggle because we have such high emotional intelligence, and we are like a lot, a lot of women can be empaths and and want things for all sorts of reasons, but a lot of the time there can be like emotional reasons too. I always say that's like a superpower, right? It's the it's the it's the beauty of a woman or of a mother or of the fact that like you have someone that's like already multitasking, already running her household like a business. But when it comes to founders and women that you are investing in and that you're advising people to invest in, what are you really looking for? What are kind of like the patterns and the characteristics?

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Ooh, I am looking for grit and resilience. So the question that I ask is when all hell breaks loose, because it will in your in your journey as you're building. If you're building something big, expect things to go wrong, right? That's always a fire to fight. Will she be able to handle it? And how will she handle it? Like I think about myself. I've exited relationships when I could have stayed on and it could have profited me more from a financial perspective, but would destroy the relationship completely, right? I'm sure you and I have been in lawsuits many different ways. We've had to re-evaluate ethics, all of that. And for me, it's more important to have this relationship with you, even though we don't agree at a business level. I care more about this. And I want to walk away and I've made those decisions. And I'm looking for founders who have that similar work ethic, right? Because I think, look, life is uncertain, and you never know when you're writing the check, you're receiving the check. When you're the boss and you're the employee, right? And you're the contractor, and I'm the business person, right? With AI, everything is being disrupted. Yeah. So I believe deeply in being kind while you build. Be kind, do the right thing, take the high road, even though it's hard as hell, um, as much as possible. And I'm looking for that in character. So the power of character is number one, because you can have a great product, everything could be in your favor. But if the founder from a character standpoint is not grounded, I'm out. A shark tank, right? Yeah, say I'm out. But it and that's something that you have to test over time, right? This um emotional regulation, both in men and women, by the way, men, I find them sometimes in dealing with uh high stress environments really hard to manage, frankly, as well. So let's not brand women as the emotional one because, hey, by the way, in uh investing, women actually are more grounded in their in times of volatility. That's data to prove this. Yeah, wow. So we're more grounded in that because we're used to, I want to say, like, if you think about households and everything that we had to deal with, our emotional nervous system regulation is good. I know.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

You know, people ask me it all the time. They're like, your life, like people will come to my house and it's like four kids, they're all under the age of six, it's crazy, it's chaotic. It's like, you know, you got work, I'm traveling, all the time. Like, how do you do it? It's like, this is like baseline for me. Yeah. And so my nervous system is like, it's like locked. You know, it's like I'm I don't get flustered at it. Something like little that happens that is so big to someone else. I'm like, are you kidding? That's like a Tuesday morning for me.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Tuesday morning, and now the Tuesday morning for Chris morning.

unknown 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

But yeah, I love that. So let's talk a little bit about the biggest barriers that still exist for emerging founders that are trying to raise capital.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

So the biggest barriers are uh the unfortunate fact that systematically women still get the short end of the stick, right? The numbers as a whole, from a dollar perspective, have improved, but the percentage has not moved enough. So even after I've mobilized the billion dollars with my co-founder and our team, the work is not done, right? It still has to continue. What we've shown is the power of community in focusing on a mission and being able to do that together at a global level and that women like this exist, but the work continues in continuing to show up, right, and build those billion-dollar businesses. Uh, but I've come to the conclusion, right? I've come to this conclusion very early on as I insinuated that we are the answers we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Women with capital are going at a clip that we've never seen before, right? We're going through the greatest wealth transfer of our lifetime. And instead of writing that philanthropy check, my mission here is to make sure that those investment dollars are unlocked to take bets on women, right? So women supporting women is something I 100% believe in. And I see it every single day, right? I see it every single day. I see that the friendship and the partnership and what it takes to build each other up. And to me, that will solve so much. And more than that, I think we should also normalize that women and men continue to collaborate in good ways, and that is important as well. That's why I mentioned with my brand in Billion Dollar Moves, uh, the evolution is I wanted to make sure that women and men, the unicorns, like Melanie Perkins, was put next to even she surprised them, actually, uh, YouTube, right? Yeah, Steve Chan. So, how do we see women like you know, when you think about uh back then my my pitch was always when you think of a unicorn founder, who do you imagine? Years ago, it would still be like the Zucks of the wall, right? Monsucker Cupbrook. These days it's changed. I believe that. I 110% believe that. And we need to continue to do the work. We need to encourage women and girls to build billion-dollar businesses and dream big and show them how it's possible and really where it's required with investors. You know, we take on uh a lot on our plates as investors, and I know a lot of female investors that are so personal with their journey, if they've been through it, they literally are sharing the playbook all the way to exit, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

And Anne is one of them. Yeah. Anne is our journey. Anne is one of them.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

And thinking about like what were the clauses that really mattered. Wait, what was that red flag? What was that green flag? We need to be having these conversations, we need to continue to not see these as bearers and and um uh sort of feel like oh, we're the lesser of the sexes or whatever the saying is, but see this as an opportunity. You know, Anne and I are are very alike in our thinking where we saw being different actually as a huge opportunity because people remember us, by the way. And so when you have attention on you, how are you leveraging that attention? What are you doing there? Are you being seen as a serious person who will create impact? Are you presenting yourself as someone that I want to back and I want to believe in? And are you going to create great things and therefore it's worth my time? Be that person, be that person that you always looked up to. I think that would be the solution. Well, there we go. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Perfect way to end. And before we do, we always do branded banter. So quick questions, one answer. Don't think too much about it, all right? Okay. What is your one holy grail product? If you lost it tomorrow, you'd replace it immediately.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

I hate to say this, but my iPhone. I am stuck to my iPhone, but I run business through it. We are global. I'm on WhatsApp and we do deals, and it's where my family is, everything I run in my life through my iPhone.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

All right. Well, you'd have to go right to the Apple store and pick another one up.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I'm looking for a partnership.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

There you go. Call us.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Call us.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

What's one product or trend you're officially breaking up with and never doing again? Ooh, what is one trend?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

The hustling trend, I suppose. I think uh there's but it's changing, right? Like I think that's an era of the soft era as well. But um I I got to a point of real burnout uh in building all that I'm building, and that was based on the pressure of hustle culture, where if I'm not, you know, I still have this problem, right? Like I I literally cannot sit still without thinking about something, and I've had to really force myself to like do yoga, meditation, and all that. But that comes from, and I think it's an Asian thing as well, where we feel we have to be useful all the freaking time. I do not have to be useful all the freaking time. I can be horizontal when I want to. And actually, I you know, with I think with kids, with family, like bringing in joy in everything that you do, integrating that. Uh oh, actually, an important one that I tanked a long time ago is I thought that work in life, you know, we we talked about work-life balance. I was almost like putting categories, right? This is my work me, this is home me. And it was so hard to be like all these characters at once. And I did it in the early days of my career because I wanted to be taken seriously as well. Um, but by breaking that belief, and I I really am very appreciative of uh my portfolio company. So some of the CEOs that became friends with me in the end, they were American, they pushed me to like say, hey, beyond business, we can like hang out too, and all that. And that relationship has enriched my life in so many ways. So I wasn't just a tech writer or that executive that was helping put this memo together to bring to the investment committee. I truly enjoyed their company. And like, you know, we've been to like our families met in Prague and you know, I had dinner, and that was such a rich thing in life, and that's priceless to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

I love it. Do you think that women can build billion-dollar businesses and be in their softness? Yes.

unknown 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

All right, founder-led brand or celebrity brand? Founder led. Organic influencer seating or paid partnerships. Maybe organic. Virality or longevity? Longevity. Big budget campaign or scrappy idea with cultural relevance. Ooh, scrappy idea. What's the most overrated word in marketing right now?

SPEAKER_01 41:47

What's the most overrated word in marketing?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

What are brands pitching you that you're sick of hearing the same word? That's what I'm I'm dying enough.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

I mean, I hate when people say they're they're Uber of this, they're Airbnb of this. What do you call that? Like presenting yourself as a replica of the other. And I think that's a brand thing, right? I mean, Uber and Airbnb. Like I'm a Google for this. I'm a yeah. So um, I don't know. If you're original, just be original.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

I love it. One word that will define the next era of beauty and wellness brands. Ooh, the modern matriarch. Love it. And if you were launching a brand tomorrow, what's the first thing you'd obsess over?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

How it will make money.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

There we go. All right. Well, that's a wrap. That's awesome thing. It is good. I love it. Thank you so much, Sarah. This was so wonderful. You're such a wealth of knowledge, and we are so happy to have you on the show. This podcast is for informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of MMC or any of its affiliates. Guest appearances do not constitute an endorsement.