Mikeing Disciples
Mikeing Disciples is a podcast for men, about men, designed to make disciples of men. It's hosted by Pastor Mike Willis, the Ministry Development Pastor of HighPoint Church in Lake Wales, Florida. New episodes are released every other Monday.
Mikeing Disciples
Interview: Scott Thompson - #005
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Every man needs another man in his life that will listen to him and will direct him—one that will stick with him in the hard times and will say the hard things he sometimes needs to hear. Scott Thompson is that kind of man!
Listen as he and Mike talk about how God has worked in their lives, so you can learn how He can work in yours!
Welcome to Miking Disciples. I'm Mike, and I'm trying to help men become disciples of Jesus. I'm the Ministry Development Pastor at High Point Church, and I'm glad you've joined us again for another episode. Every other Monday, we'll release a new episode for you to listen to and hopefully learn from. Today, I want to welcome my good friend and brother, Scott Thompson. Scott has served in ministry for many years, both inside and outside the walls of the local church. Also, he's become my close friend. Way back in 2008, I was at a really low point in my life and needed another godly man to talk to. And this guy was willing to say yes to that, and we've tried to meet every other week, every week since then. Over the years, we've really tried to keep that standing appointment on our busy schedules, and we've done pretty well at it. This guy, Scott, he knows everything about me, and I know just about everything about him, and we help each other along the way. At one point, this group of two of us became a party of five, but now it's back down to three because Brian left sunny Florida for the frozen tundra of Indiana, but he joins us by FaceTime every Wednesday if he can. I tried to reserve the corporate jet to fly him down here for this recording, you know, but the that request was denied by management. So sorry, Brian. It's just Scott and I here. So Scott, welcome, man.
SPEAKER_00It is good to be here. It's good to be here. Uh probably should have got Brian involved because he can get us back on track sometimes, but we'll get through this.
SPEAKER_03He does that on a regular basis. That's really one of the main reasons we have him in there is to keep us on track.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_03He's the guy that says, Well, we got we got to make sure we pray, and I got to get out of here. So he is kind of our timekeeper and our helper in that regard. So uh, but we do miss you, Brian, and and we love talking to you via FaceTime. Um, so I want to start off just by telling you telling a little bit about yourself and your upbringing and your walk with God. When did you meet Jesus? What was that like growing up? Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was I was very fortunate and blessed to be to be born into a Christian home. My my parents accepted Christ uh after my my two older brothers were born, and uh we were active in church and and really in a had a good spiritual uh basis on that. And I say that not not saying that our home was perfect because it was not, and and many people can give you illustrations of that. Um, I had three older brothers, so it was like WWE in the backyard all the time. And and as mom said, if we weren't bleeding or something wasn't broken, don't come to her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with three sons. I think I saw that on my own on the around the.
SPEAKER_00There you go, you know. But uh, but it was good to have a foundation of of Christ in our home. And you know, grew up in a small church here in Lake Wales out in Golfview Park, and and have fond memories of those days of of sitting on the same pew with the whole family and my my parents being there and my older brothers being there, and and and literally my my conversion, my my time when I surrendered to the Lord. I was I was seven years old, about two weeks before Mother's Day. Um, and and you know, we're sitting in church. You know, back then you didn't have you didn't have children's church. Like you turned three years old and and you were potty training, you went in church, and and you just sat, yeah, you sat next to your mom, so that if you got out of hand, she just spit in your ear and then just popped you on the back of the head and you were okay, but in in a loving, in a loving way, not in a child abuse type of way, but whatever you want to call loving way on that. But you know, I was sitting in that church service and and we had an interim pastor, his name was uh L. O. Calhoun, and and goodness gracious, he had to be in his 70s at that point. And you're looking at a seven-year-old kid. And some people say, you know, that's just you know, that's just too big of an age gap. Well, it's not for the Holy Spirit. And and God truly was pulling on my heart. And I surrendered to him, you know. Of course, it was a Baptist church, so you know, you have to go down front and shake everybody's hand, and everybody says amen to vote you into the kingdom of heaven. But uh, you know, I can go back to that day and know for the fact. I like I know that I know that I know. And and God, you know, wivened my spirit so that I could walk with him. And and really that's kind of how I've lived life since then. Um I'm not, you know, like I said, I have three older brothers. Um, some of them are much better uh wordsmiths than I. I was good in math and science. But uh I'm just as I tell people, I'm just smart enough to only do what I'm told to do. And when you look at God's word, it it truly does uh does direct our path sometimes in places that we want to go, and some play times in places that we go kicking and screaming, but but we're still going. So that's that's kind of where I started off. And you know, growing up in this beautiful town of Lake Wales, um went went through many colleges, went uh, I tell everybody it took probably not as many as me. Well, it took me three degrees to finally get on the dean's list because once you start so low, it takes a while to get that average back up. And as I tell my my students down at the college now, I mean, I I quit every major that I didn't like. So it took me you know, we don't call it a four-year degree, by the way. The technical term is a bachelor's degree because some of us extend that time period, you know, not to judge anybody, but but finally got through that, you know, married, married my high school sweetheart, the woman of my dreams. Matter of fact, we're gonna celebrate uh 33 years of marriage on Friday.
SPEAKER_03Wow, congratulations, man.
SPEAKER_00Uh just tremendous. Yeah, God has blessed in many ways. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03You I want to go back to something. You talked about when you were kind of telling us who you were, you talked about your brothers, and then you compared yourself more of a math and science guy. Um, and and just knowing you, how does that that desire to to analyze and and make sure that you understand the processes, how has that helped you in your faith or contributed to that?
SPEAKER_00Well, and and that is really kind of wild because some people will say, you know, oh, you just have to have you know the blind faith, you know, just just jump in, don't use logic. It is what but I will tell you from a guy who really comes from that logical side, God's word is logical. I mean, he he like you can really get into it and be like, okay, wait a minute, let's flow the flow chart. Yep, that that makes sense. And I am finding more and more as I get later on in my life that that that helps a lot because sometimes, you know, maybe once or twice, you know, I may think that I'm wrong, but I was mistaken. Um so so I'm able, I'm able to take these thoughts that I have and and and I truly go and I'm like, okay, well, how does that follow up with God's word? And and if it doesn't, then I have to come back to myself and say, well, wait a minute, that doesn't fit, you know, and maybe that's just uh maybe that's just schology and not theology. And that's when I have to decide, hey, because listen, I've tried to write schology a lot and it doesn't work out. It doesn't work out at all. It'd be a bestseller in your mind, right? Yeah, it'd be something all right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay. That's good. Um, tell us about you know your ministry experience, what you've done over the years, what you're doing now.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, that goes back, that goes back quite a few years. So I was I was ordained as a deacon in my home church um 1994. And then I was I was uh well back then we didn't call them worshipers pastors. I was music director.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And I served there for a couple of years, and then I went up to First Baptist Church of Lake Hamilton and served in the music capacity. And at Lake Hamilton in '97, I was ordained into the gospel ministry, felt God's calling. Um, and and at that point went full-time uh up at Lake Hamilton ministering in music and the youth, which is that's like the stepping stone to to every minister experience.
SPEAKER_03Been there, done that.
SPEAKER_00You're you're called to be you're called to be in ministry. Well, that must mean that you've got to go to youth camp this summer. Um so we did that. Um, you know, at that point served in different churches in Polk County in that in that regard. Um 1999 ended up at the little church there in Frostproof. And, you know, that's where you and I met in the Frostproof Ministerial Association. Um back in '99 when we were, you know, when I was in Frostproof, I started off. I was I was climbing the corporate ladder of banking. I was working for Wachovia Bank. I was actually working on my MBA. Okay. So, so man, I had I had decided, you know, God, this ministry thing's great, but but you know, I also like I like the finer things of life, you know. I wanted to step up to Hampton End from Motel 8. So I needed, I needed a job that paid some bills. Um, so I was happy. I was happy in that regard. I was gonna, I was gonna be in a secular job that paid the bills, but then I was also gonna be in ministry kind of kind of on the side, you know, just enough to keep the Holy Spirit out of my business. And uh then that church grew, God blessed in mighty ways. And we kept growing and we kept growing. Um, the pastor that I started with, he went from bivocational to full-time. And then about two years later, it was very obvious the church needed another full-time associate pastor. They searched and searched and and I kicked and screamed. And finally he asked me one night, he said, When are you finally gonna give us your resume so that we can go ahead and put you on staff? And I said, Well, I'll I'll pray about it, I'll talk to my wife about it. And I went home and she kind of looked at me and she goes, Oh, are we gonna do this again? And I was like, Well, you know, I think I think God will provide. And he did, and he always has. Um, you know, we won't get into all the stories of that fellowship. It's you know, it continued to grow. We added another staff person on who was one of our five at the time, got a got a love bill. Um, and and you know, we were truly ministering to the community. And and that was one of the things about Emmanuel down there. We truly wanted to see the town change for the kingdom of God. And and that was happening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, fast forward a few more years, um, the senior pastor that I worked with for 11 years, he he retired and moved on. We got another leadership team in, and let's just say I didn't uh I didn't align with the new new plan and they decided I need to go into free agency. Okay. So so that's well said. Yeah, that's uh that's where that's where things shifted again. And and here again, you know, when God shifted me from corporate America um after I got my MBA, and I was like, God, why why don't you let me climb that ladder ladder? And well, six, seven years later, I I learned why, because God's ladder's not straight. It's a journey. That's good and it's a path. And, you know, with with being, you know, let go from the church in one of the biggest recessions that we had in our nation, all of a sudden I found out why he had me get that MBA years years before. And you know, I had a a great uh friend of mine, brother in Christ, that allowed me to work out of his office and get my investment licenses back and open my own office back up in financial planning. Um, one of the things with that, and and to this day, matter of fact, this morning in the appointment that I had, you know, I was talking to the clients and I said, you know, a lot of pastor friends of mine that that are still in in you know vocational ministry, when I see them, they'll ask me, you know, Scott, when are you getting back into full-time ministry? And my standard response is I never left. Right. Right. You know, uh, I mean, I I go back to the apostle Paul, you know, he sowed tense, he traveled around, he he took care of those things, and he was, I don't think any of us could say Paul was a part-time pastor.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't think Paul did anything part-time.
SPEAKER_00No, no, definitely didn't. So, I mean, that's where that's where my ministry experience is, and who knows what tomorrow has in store. Yeah um, you know, I told you this morning's appointment was uh 10 o'clock, should have been done by 11, and we got done at about 150. Probably two hours of that were talking to these folks about a situation with with their spiritual walk and their church that they're at and how they should handle things. And and I sat there, I thought, I I never had these conversations in my church office like this. So, yeah, yeah, we're still in ministry. We're we're still making a difference for the kingdom no matter where we are.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think we were talking about that last week in our our meeting together, just because in 2010, that was a a big, uh difficult, rough year for both of us. We we both left our pastoral ministry positions around a similar time and went into the corporate world. You went into the banking and I went into nonprofit, and we both would would almost be shocked, um, sometimes surprised about how many opportunities for ministry we had that we didn't have before. Um I was working in a world where I was helping people find jobs, and every day I had people come by my desk and they were struggling, and I just got to sit and listen and share some of my own experiences. And then I worked in the foster care world where I'm you know helping people who are rescued from these traumatic situations. And so you really get a chance when you are talking with people who are struggling, that there's a real open they're real open to the gospel at that point. And um so we we've talked about that a lot that yeah, we we left full-time pastoral ministry, but we didn't really stop being pastors at that point. Um and thank God that he was still using us and you know, even when we were looking in other areas, and so tell me about that a little bit. You know, you you've done a little bit of uh in the banking world and the financial planning and pastoral ministry, you've um been an umpire in a little league, um, a music director, a youth pastor, you've done a lot of things. Is there anything you do different looking back now? If you could talk to Scott Thompson back then when you were starting in uh your calling and in your roles, what would you tell that guy?
SPEAKER_00You know, I think the the the first part of ministry was trying to figure out this is gonna sound pretty uh pretty fleshly how to keep my job. Okay? Like like like I started in ministry, I didn't go to seminary, I didn't go to Bible college. Um of course I was the one thing I was raised in the faith. So, you know, I I did see a lot of church. I I understood God's word, I knew where I was at, but but then all of a sudden I go to a church and they're like, this is my paycheck. This is how I'm gonna, you know, make sure my son's taken care of, this is how my wife, you know. So I was really conscious more of is everybody gonna be happy with me than was God gonna be happy with me.
SPEAKER_03That answer is no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and I found out very quick, like, like, okay, sometimes God has you proclaim his word in a way and and it doesn't make people happy.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, the first the first church that I was at in full-time ministry in that youth group, we we had a huge uh gulf between half of the youth group were were in public schools each day, and the other half of the youth group was homeschooled. And it was it was as if I was constantly having to battle that. Um, I mean, I had parents come to me from the homeschool group. Oh, you shouldn't have the, you shouldn't allow this kid to come back because you know he he said the wrong word on the basketball court when somebody hit him in the eye. Um, and then I had other people saying, well, you know, we should be able to go to that, you know, event because, you know, we we don't mind that movie, even though, you know, the other side of the group was like, oh, we can only show G-rated Disney movies well until we had to boycott Disney. Yeah. But different theological discussion. Yes. We'll we'll not go down that. That's a future broadcast episode, right? But you know, it it really, I think if I went back today, I would say just be true to who God had you call, you know, or or what God called you into. Um, you know, we talked about kind of jokingly that the first, you know, job for every minister is is you know, youth or music or children, or and and I'll be honest with you, I was not a good youth pastor. Neither was I. Like terrible. I, you know, even to this, like I didn't like teenagers when I was a teenager. Like, and and you know, so so it was great that God moved me out of that season very quickly. And and we've talked before on the on the other church, this was like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna fire the youth pastor and have you do youth this summer. And I was like, yeah, no, that's not gonna happen. Because because that's not what God wants. Yeah. It's it's convenient, it looks great on paper, but but I think the main thing is just focusing in on what God wants in the ministry, and He'll take care of everything else from then on.
SPEAKER_03Right. I think I was so when I started in ministry, I also went on staff at a church and was a youth pastor. Um, and I I jokingly, but I don't think I'm too far off base here when I say it took me about two weeks to realize I wasn't a youth pastor.
SPEAKER_00Amen.
SPEAKER_03Um wasn't cool enough to be, um, didn't want to be on on trips, you know, all those things. And so and I've got a son that's a youth pastor, and he loves it. Yeah, like he's in his element, he's he's doing a great job, um, but not so much for me. And and I think that's I don't I don't know how we fix that in in the church. I I don't know how we uh come up with different models. I I do love the fact that now more and more churches are willing to um you don't have to send somebody off to Bible college like you talked about, but we we want to equip you and help you um do what it is that God's called you to do. So more time probably needs to be spent on the front end analyzing and and helping people determine what is it that God's calling you to do. Yeah. Not just what position are we trying to fill.
SPEAKER_00Listen, I had I didn't I had never even seen a spiritual gifts inventory until I'd been in the ministry about seven years. Okay. Like that wasn't something that we went over in in the traditional Baptist church that I grew up in. Um, so so then all of a sudden I'm like, wait a minute. I yeah, I've been trying to fit into something that God doesn't want me in. And and I think that's that's a key thing. I mean, you know, it's it's great we preach about scriptures. Oh, we're all the body of Christ, and some people are a big toe. Let's face it, when you preach that, nobody wants to be a big toe. Like, like, you know, they don't want to be that. Yeah. So so they try and fit in somewhere else. And and I've tried that, and it's exhausting. And at this season of life that I'm in, I'm just done. I'm just done. If if God wants me to be the big toe, that I'm I'm rocking it. I'm gonna be the best big toe out there. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So you have a son and a daughter, and and they're both married, and you have a grandchild now. And if one of your kids said to you, hey, I'm feeling called to ministry, what what are you gonna tell them?
SPEAKER_00Oh well, after after the tears. Um I you know, I I really would just say, uh, okay, that's that's great. But the other thing is, is I I constantly you know remind my kids that you're in ministry anyway. You know, there's not a there's not a switch that you switch. You know, we were just having a conversation with our daughter over the weekend, and and she was telling us about a a time that sh you know she had just had an interaction through Facebook Marketplace at Shocker, you know, um buying something that she had found for a a dollar. Or I don't know what it was, but you know, she was telling me the story of she she went to this lady's house and and she was having just a rough time. You know, dad had dementia um trying to figure out how to deal with all of that. And and she just said, she said, you know, it it was just obvious that God had brought me to this lady because you know my dad understands how this works, you know, the financial side of it. And she had a lot of questions and she said, you know, do you mind if I give give her your number? And I was like, no, by all means do so. And and this is the issue. Like, people say, Oh, I'm going into ministry. Okay, well, just understand you're gonna go on a Jenny Craig diet because your salary's going down by by 40%. But you know, the other side is is always remember we're believer priests to start with. Yeah. Yeah, the path that you're on as a believer is a ministry no matter what it is. Yeah. And uh so yeah, I I mean, you know, we joke. We joke about the salaries and the all of that. And but you know, the other thing is is the amount of of emotional equity that it takes to be a pastor, to be in in quote, ministry, because everybody at that point becomes your family. And and your heart your heart hears everything and knows everything about that. And and a person who's truly called to ministry can't can't turn that off. And you just, you know, that's the one thing I would caution my children, you know. Being young in the ministry, there were a lot of times that I sacrificed time with my family to make sure church people were happy and they weren't gonna be happy anyway. So, so that's that's the main thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I, you know, I've I've been guilty of that as well. And I've got three sons, and then they're all adults now, four really. Um, I always do that. I forget that we added one later, but sorry, Griffin. Um but you know, there is this there there have been there were so many times where I put church needs ahead of family needs. And I I think if I could go back and talk to to Mike Willis when he was 27 and starting in ministry, um, I would say that make sure that you take care of your family. And we we talk a good game like that, but it's one thing to talk it, but but then it's another to live it out. And I'm thankful that I'm in a role now where that's modeled to me regularly. Um our lead passer, our executive passer, my bosses, they will do that and and not be shy about it, not apologize for it, and they don't want me to either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um, so I I think that that's important to tell people. I the reason I'm asking this is you know, we've got a lot of guys and and and probably their wives too, hopefully, listening to this, and and they're thinking, oh man, God is starting to move in my life, and the next step for me is to to be in ministry school or to be a pastor or to be a worship leader or a kids director. Um, and and what I hear you saying is yeah, those roles are are are important, and they might that might be what God's calling you to, but he might be just asking you to be the best real estate agent that you can be for him, or the best teacher. My wife is a teacher, my son is a teacher, my daughter-in-law is a teacher, um, my daughter's a teacher, so your daughter's a teacher. All of them, you know, and so whatever it is that you do, do it for the Lord. I'm pretty sure that that guy, Paul, said that a couple of times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it seems like he wrote something about that.
SPEAKER_03And so we we forget that. You know, we think, oh, you're feeling called and God's moving in your life. So the next logical step is for you to do this role. And what he might be doing is saying, no, I want you to stay right here where you're at because you're gonna be in somebody's living room talking to them about their finances or talking with a family, you know, in an after school conference, uh parent-teacher conference, or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I think I think there's beginning to be a paradigm shift in in the you know organized church today, also, because you know, how many times have we been talking? And and you or Brian, I don't say this because I never went to seminary or Bible college, but but y'all say, well, they didn't teach us that in Bible college. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so a lot of churches are finding that, you know, wow, they we we can train people in our church to be the next generation to come into those ministry positions. That kind of seems like a biblical model, right? Yeah. You know, I I will say when I first got into ministry was ordained, um, one of the things that that I kind of got a little bit of pushback from some of the more traditional pastors was I hadn't been to Bible college. And and I truly sought God on, hey, do you want me to do this? Like, I mean, because if that's the case, I'm I'm all in, you know. But but I really started beginning to think, you know, God placed me in a Christian home. He placed me in a Bible-believing and a Bible-teaching church underneath Bible teaching pastors for many, many years. And 20 years of studying God's word in church, I mean, if I said, hey, I need to go to Bible college to learn more, that's almost a slap in the face to all the teachers who taught me for 20 years. You know, and and I'm not saying that is. And I'm I I definitely believe there is a place for Bible colleges and seminaries. Don't go out there and saying that. But I do also believe that there's also a point where, man, is is is that quote unquote career path the same for everybody? Um, you know, my brother posted something on social media last week. It basically said, you know, none of the disciples that Jesus chose would have been even interviewed for a pastor position in our churches in North America.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, I mean, it's kind of like, really? You were a fisherman last week? Oh, that's great. But, you know, do you do you know all of this? Well, no. Uh yeah, I just I'm a fisherman, man. So, so I think that's the other thing, looking at looking at where churches are today is just, you know, okay, we need the right person that God has called to this ministry. What does that look like? And sometimes it does look like you need to go through seminary. Sure. Other times it's like, hey, we do need the best real estate agent, you know. Um, so many times, you know, in the midst of all that finance, I also worked for State Farm for five years. So one of the things as an associate pastor is guess what? You actually need to know how to read an insurance policy. And I was pretty good at it, you know. So God had me in that season because he knew I was going to be in the next season. And and that's it. You talked about that.
SPEAKER_03That's a good springboard for our next question. Um learning by being taught by by great men of God versus learning in a college classroom environment. Um, and one of the things you do now, along with everything else, is you're an adjunct college professor. So you've you've lived a little bit of both sides of this. But um what are who are some of the men you've learned from the most? And what are some of the lessons of faith they taught you over the years?
SPEAKER_00Well, and and you know, thinking about that, there there's definitely men and pastors that that made a huge difference. You know, Pastor Calhoun. Uh I I can tell you, I think, I think that that guy had the Bible memorized. He could quote scripture more than I've ever heard any man in my life. Um, and then later on in life, uh, Pastor Ken Guerin, um, he was a very uh soft-spoken pastor. He wasn't the typical Baptist fire and brimstone pastor, but he was an expository preacher. He we would dissect uh scripture verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book, and serve, you know, I I sat underneath him for five years. And, you know, matter of fact, he was the he was the pastor that married Tracy and I.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00And you know, just that gave me such a foundation for God's word. But then there were gentlemen in my life that that were not pastors, okay, that just spoke the right things at the right time in the right season. And and you know, one of those, and many of those in the last couple of years have have passed on. Um one of those was was Sammy Arthur. He was he was my Sunday school teacher at Golf Ute Baptist. He was also the produce manager at Publix for years here in town. And and he showed me that, okay, you can you can follow Christ and still have a good time and and still be who God called you to be. Um you know, looking back, I I look at uh you know Rip Walser was an all-state agent here in town for years. And uh he was also a Gideon. And and so he he taught me that understanding and knowing God knowing God's word was was paramount to to walking the path God would have me. Also gave me a lot of pointers on on how to you know be a businessman and be an ethical businessman. And uh, you know, types like that. Um, you know, when there was a gentleman when when my dad and I had our shop, and and you know, I was a I was a welder before I was in school, you know, I wasn't gonna go to college after high school, but you know, there was this gentleman there, his name was Freddie Richards, and Freddie was a ordained minister, but he was a welder. And and if you've ever been around welders very much, they they have a pretty limited vocabulary, and a lot of the times it rhymes with truck, okay? I mean, it's it's I'm not I'm not glorifying that, but it just is what it is. But but Freddie understood walking with the Lord, okay. And there were many times that that I would come into different situations and he had just kind of see that I was down or I was having a hard time making a decision, and he would give me words of wisdom and and say, you know, it's not gonna get better tomorrow. You know, if it's something hard, go ahead and do it today. And and I'd say, Oh, that's a good word. He goes, Yeah, God says that don't let the sun go down on your wrath, you know, on your anger. And so he was able, always able to take real life situations and put a scripture with it. And and I think that's exactly what God has us doing. So I think the main thing is, yeah, there were there and there were pastors that that poured into my life, and there there were, you know, lay people that poured into my life. And I think the beauty of it is, is you can learn from any of those as long as you have an open mind to it.
SPEAKER_03That's good. That's good. And I, you know, I I've got a list of people like that in my life, some of them pastors, some not. Um, but now I want to shift it a little bit. Those are the people that have influenced you. What would you say? Who are some of the men that God has used you to train on how to live a godly life?
SPEAKER_00Well, and and of course, I hope that you know my children would say the same thing. I hope my my son definitely would say, but but that's up to him to speak. I I will tell you, it it really depends on who's coming into the crowd that day. Uh, you know, there are there are men who are in this church at High Point Church that God placed into my path years ago.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then all of a sudden, you know, um he he got it to a point where the the ministry side of my vocation intersected with the spiritual side of my vocation, and I was able to say, wait a minute, do you really want to know why you're having problems? Because if you do, we're gonna open up another book. And it's not called accounting, it's called the Bible. And let me explain to you why your work your life is here. Um, and and definitely has has been there. I think especially since I, you know, went out of vocational everyday ministry and and opened my own office back up, it has just, I mean, week after week, day after day, the the people that God has put in front of me. Um, some especially and you ask spically about men. And I think for me, one of the things that it helps, honestly, brother, not being in a pastor's office is is it kind of gives them the idea that, hey, I'm just like them. You know, or and and and gentlemen, if you're listening to this, guess what? Even your pastor is just like you.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we all have the same battles, we all have issues, we all stub our toe, you know, it it's all there. Um, but you know, there's and and I'm very hesitant to mention names because I don't want to embarrass anyone, but you know, from from the interns that come in and and want to, hey, I want to, I want to be in finance. Okay, real quick, are you really sure about that? Because it's not all what you see. Um, to the folks that are just like, man, I'm I've been going to church and I I've been trying, I've been trying. Well, maybe you're trying to be churchy and not be godly. You know, so many times we come into services and we're like, okay, we got to do this and we can't do, and we can't do, and we can't do. And really, Jesus is just saying, Man, I just want you to love me and love the guy next to you. And and we'll work all the rest of it out. And and that's been a good thing. You know, I it it is a great, you know, one of the one of the gentlemen that that you know I was talking about earlier. Um, you know, they came to the office, uh, it was and and here as a financial guy, you you gotta ask questions, you gotta get answers, and we're listing beneficiaries and so forth. And I said, Okay, you know, uh I'm sure on your account you want your wife to be your beneficiary. And she immediately goes, Oh, I'm not his wife. And I was like, Okay, well, you know, so uh and she was like, Well, you know, we've been together 11 years, but but you know, and I was like, Well, you have children, right? Yeah, well, we want to make sure that this goes down to them. And and that kind of opened that question. And and then over the next year, it was, you know, let's face it, when you're trying to trying to live a godly life, but but also shackled in sin, it doesn't work out the best. Okay. And and I can remember it was an Easter morning. This gentleman had called me for the you know, seventh or eighth time, umpteenth time, you know, hey, this whole relationship relationship thing ain't working out, and she's not who I need her to be, and I'm not who she needs, and I was like, wait a minute. And and there was a point where the phrase a line in the Sam was drawn, and I was like, okay. I was like, take a deep breath. I was on the phone with him. I said, listen, it's Easter. My family's in the grocery store getting stuff for Easter dinner. I said, I only got a few minutes. I said, Do you really want to know what the truth is and how you can fix this or not? And he's like, No, I want to know it. I was like, okay. I said, stop playing around. Because what had happened was their relationship was great right up until they tried to quote unquote get back in church and get get right with God, yet, yet you're just playing house. So, so I had that conversation with them in a loving way that, hey, you need to, you need to go to your girlfriend and and talk to her and and make that become your wife and and confess that you should have been the spiritual leader in this. And then just a few short months later, I was able to perform their wedding. And and this guy is like, he is just a sponge for God right now. Yeah. And yeah, not saying that we're not all making mistakes on a daily, but but he really is just there. Yeah. And I love him. I love his family. And and that's just one of those things that, you know, years ago, if I wouldn't have been sitting in an office and they wouldn't have needed some help on an inheritance, who knows where that would have been today.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And God used you for sure. And it goes back to to kind of illustrate what you said earlier about love God and love the people in front of you or next to you, or whoever he brings into your path. And I I think that that's really the the benefit of I I'm just you know, it doesn't come down. I mean, certainly numbers are important in your business and you have to meet quotas and whatever it is, but it really comes down to if you're trusting God, if you're trying to live your life as a man of God, you're you're believing that he's going to bring the people your way that need to be right in front of you. And when that opportunity arises, you're gonna talk with him, them about him. Um, and you're gonna talk to him about them. I'm sure you pray over your clients and talk with them and talk to the Lord about them. And so that that's important. I I just love that phrase that you talked about. Love God and love the people in front of you. And I think that that's what we've experienced on a Wednesday morning. That's when we meet um so often, is that we come in there and there's no agenda, there's no, this is the study that we're in, this is um we've got to talk about these direct questions. Yeah, it's just because it's we've just been at it so long. What's going on in your life? And and we don't even really have to ask that question now. We just get into it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because we know that there's not gonna be any judgment um accountability. Yes. Yes. Um if sin is involved, we're we're gonna point that out and and bring you back to repentance. Um, we're gonna talk about how you should treat your wife. Um on the days that you did well at that and the days that you've not done so well, when your kids are frustrating you so much that you want to rip your hair out or tear out your beard, like I do with you know that's right. So, whatever the case may be, we just talk about that. But we know that all three of us have a deep love for God and a love for each other, and and we pray for each other and for our families, and there's like I said earlier, there's nothing we can't say. And I think just being able to be real with people that way, yeah, is what really opens up the opportunity for the gospel. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh yeah, I think I think that's exactly you know what it has turned into. And like you said, I mean, now we we've been together so long that it's like you I you know you can tell when I'm having a rough week, you know. Um when I when I text out on Tuesday night and say, hey, please say somebody's gonna meet tomorrow because I need it.
SPEAKER_03That's more than just a scheduling thing, it's a begging thing. Yeah, yeah. I understand.
SPEAKER_00You know, the the other thing is uh is I was looking, we kind of talked about this over the last month or so is is the concept of discipleship. And I I'm a firm believer that that you know you have to make a conscious decision to go deeper with Christ each and every day. And and when I look at our group of three guys, and then I look at the model that Jesus gave in his ministry, um, you know, he he had the 5,000 on the hillside, you know, he had the followers that followed him from town to town. He had the 12 disciples that he chose. But really, when it came down to it, he had Peter James and John. Yeah. You know, he had three guys right there that were gonna really make a difference in the world. And, you know, I think as we as believers, we as men, so many times we, you know, and and listen, men's conferences are great. Okay. Sure. I mean, we can look over, you know, Wild at Heart with John Eldres. We can go back to the Promise Keepers movement, and and they are great movements and they're great conferences. But real discipleship happens in those groups of two or three, yeah. Where you can be vulnerable because, like, that's why Wednesday works so well with us. Like, I know whatever I share in there. If I tell you, hey guys, this has got to stay here, it's gonna stay here. And and when I say, hey, I bring this to you because I'm at my wit's end and I don't know what to do, there's no preconceived notions of this is it. Yeah. Um, we all normally just start really seeking the spirit and God's word on okay, how how should this work? You know, why, how should we deal with this? Yeah. And And I think that's the key to it. You can't do that in huge groups, you know. Um, honestly, if I got up on Sunday morning church and shared what I thought about a lot of people around, I I wouldn't be invited back. Um, you know, but but God deals with my heart on that. And I think that's the other thing on Wednesday and and that ministry time and that bonding between us, you know, most of the time God doesn't change the others, He changes our attitude towards them and allows us to become the catalyst so that and and we've talked about reconciliation, and it's not reconciliation from that person to me, it's reconciliation from that person back to God because if they reconcile to me, I'm gonna let them down. You know, but but that concept of really let's stop, let's stop worrying about the words, you know, the right words to say. Let's just cut through the crap and get down to the nitty-gritty. And I think that's what Wednesday does for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I I think that, you know, like I said earlier, that's kind of my goal with this podcast for any of you that are listening, is I I really want to see people in smaller groups like that that are being discipled, that are growing in their faith, that are becoming more like Jesus. Um, I have certainly benefited from this. And look, I I I'll be the first to tell you when we started this in 2008, it's because I was at the end of my rope and I didn't know what else to do, and I was beat down and struggling, and there's so many other adjectives I could put in there. Um, but this guy sat with me and listened to me over and over and over, um, and didn't kick me out and didn't judge me and didn't look down on me. And I think that there's probably some people listening going, man, I I would love that. I I would love to be able to sit and and talk in an environment where it doesn't matter what I'm going through, I can bring it up. I'm not gonna be judged. Uh, it doesn't matter what um has happened. I'm I'm gonna have people that are supporting me, they're gonna walk with me through lots of of life events, and I would love to have that happen. So, what would you say to somebody who's out there listening and they're on a work crew um, but they can't get to an office on a Wednesday morning or a Friday afternoon, or um maybe they're a group of teachers and they have a planning time that they can can use or a lunch period or something like that. Um what would you say to people? What advice would you give to someone who who is longing for those type of relationships, that kind of environment, but doesn't know where to go to find it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think the you know the first thing is as she said, first of all, technology is great. Okay. Um 20 years ago, right? I mean, Brian, Brian gets with us on FaceTime or or Zoom or whatever we have, and and we wouldn't have that. That's right. I mean, yeah. I mean, today I meet more clients on the screen than I do face to face because it allows me to still have that relationship with them. But uh the other thing is is just I think for me, the first thing that you should do is it's true and and listen, we say this word way too many times. Pray about it, just go pray about it, brother Mike, you know. No, really seek God on the right person for you to be a part of. Okay. Um and when he opens that door, be bold enough to walk through it. Okay, you know, it wasn't like we announced this group, you know, in 2008 or whenever it was. Yeah, you we were at a meeting of a bunch of pastors, and you didn't get up and say, Hey, can't we get all get together? No, we were already all getting together once a month. You you came up to me and said, Hey man, I'm struggling. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember that. And honestly, you're the only one in this group that was born in the same decade. So can we get together? That was another factor for me. You're right. Um, but yeah, just and and you know, guys that are out there, you know, especially men that are working that nine to five, I mean, figure out, figure out a time, even if it's okay, after the kids go to sleep at nine o'clock, let's have a phone call. Yeah. You know, and I would also say this commit to it because everything in the world is gonna come in the way. Okay. I mean, I, you know, I run an office, I'm I'm working a lot of hours, you're here at the at the church, Brian's at the church. We can every week come up with a reason not to be there on Wednesday morning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, every week we could come up with it. But you have to commit to it. I mean, as the Bible says, iron sharpens iron. So if you only have one piece, you ain't getting you're you're not getting sharp. Um, the other thing that I would say is Satan loves to use isolation to defeat us so many times. Um I come to that Wednesday morning thinking I'm the first person, the only person who's ever felt this way. And after sharing, we can all say, oh no, we we feel it. You know, we feel that situation. Um, you know, just a few weeks ago when I came in Wednesday and I was like, guys, yeah, I'm just I overwhelmed. I did I didn't know another word. I was I was weary from the day-to-day things that were happening. I was overwhelmed with what I had to do. And and I believe it was Brian that said, you know, just start getting back to the methods. Go back to the, okay, this is what God wants me to do today. And today. Yeah, today, not tomorrow. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think stop, you know, one of the things that happens first is you start feeling overwhelmed, and you're like, okay, I'm just gonna go to my corner because I'm just gonna take care of me, and that's all I'm gonna do. And and that's Satan telling you that because God made us to be relational people. He well, and and personally, I believe that's why God created Adam. He wanted a relationship with man. Yeah, and and he wants us to have relationships with each other. And the best way Satan can defeat us is to break up those relationships. So go out there and pray about who God would put you put in your path. And by the way, God says if you seek me, yeah, I'm gonna give you what you want. You know, so he'll put the people in your path to be a part of, and and don't be scared to reach out and say, hey, you know, you want to get together for breakfast Saturday morning. Now, I I will say, Mike, when you invited me, I kind of went on the podcast and I saw like two of them that were posted at like 4 30 or 5 in the morning. That is one that comes out. And I was like, did Mike not know who I am? Like, have we been together this long? Because I am not that 4 30 in the morning kind of guy. No, that wouldn't work for me. But but yeah, I mean, just just commit to it. And and the other thing, if you don't, if you don't put it on the schedule, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, make it happen. You know, don't just say, hey, can we get together sometime? No, hey, I'm available this afternoon or this night. Can you call me then or can I give you a call? Can we talk? Um, and the other thing that I would stress in this environment, don't let it become a Bible study and a small group. This inner circle needs to be an inner circle. You know, I'm reminded of the scripture, it talks about David and his mighty men. You want two or three guys who, if you were in a knife fight against a bunch of people with guns, they would stand there with a paper cutter. Okay, those are the guys you're looking for. All right. That's good.
SPEAKER_03I like that. Yeah. So pray. Right. Seriously pray. You don't be afraid to use technology. Nope. Um, even if it's at 4 a.m. Um be committed to it, put it on your calendar. I I will have people say, I would love to talk to you, and I'll say, Great, send me some days and times at work for you, and then I'll compare that with my schedule. We're gonna be intentional about this. Um, you said realize that you're not alone, there's accountability there, and this isn't just a Bible study, not that that's bad, but this just needs to be a place where you can just share anything that you're struggling with, and and that's kind of the environment we've yeah, kind of created. And there's no curriculum for this, there's no set agenda, like I said. It's just us coming in, and sometimes I'll say, Well, I got a question for you guys about something I'm dealing with, or you'll say that, or Brian will share something, and that'll just our discussion will go there where we're talking about that. So I just think I think I would add to that list, um don't overanalyze it, don't make it too complicated. It's just you and a couple of other dudes sitting in a room or on a screen talking about what's going on in your life. Yeah, yeah. And if the guys that are there with you are um in uh committed relationships with Jesus as well, they're gonna be helpful to you and you're gonna be helpful to them. Yeah. Anything else you would add before we kind of wind up our time today?
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think you kind of hit that also. I'd you know, kind of given that, but make sure that that when you form this, make sure that the people are definitely walking walking the walk, you know. Um it's it's easy to go up to somebody and say, Oh, are you a Christian? And you know, yeah, I mean 80% of America will say that today. But you want to find somebody who's walking the walk, you know. Um because if not, it just gets to be a gripe session, and that's not gonna do anything. So, so yeah, try and find that. And there can be, you know, I always say in most of these groups, it it becomes there is a time that you are the disciple, there's a time that you're the disciple maker. And and and that's fluid. You know, there's times where I bring things that I'm truly looking for you two guys to say, hey, uh, am I on the right track? And then there's other times where God's like, okay, no, you you've been down this path, so you need to you need to help Mike out on this, you know. Um, so yeah, just be open to that. The other thing that I would say, this whole life is a journey. You know, I mean, some people look at at me and you and they think, man, they sure got it together. Well, they first of all, they don't know us, or they wouldn't say that. Definitely. But but the other thing is once you think you have it together, guess what? What? Tomorrow God's gonna take you to another level. And and that level keeps going until we finally see him in glory. You know, so don't don't think that you're gonna arrive just because you got a couple of guys that are hanging with you. Yeah, I mean, you're gonna you're gonna keep moving. And uh, you know, it's it's funny to look back at all those years ago and the things that we thought were huge crises today, today we would tell each other, like, really? Yeah. You were sweating that? Right. Like, no. Yes, no. Let me show you, let me show you what I can really do. Yeah, and I think I think that's the other thing about loving God, you know, because every time we think, oh, we're in a man, it's the old devil's beating me up so bad. Well, no, that's just God saying, Hey, let me show you what I can really do. You think that was really cool? Let me show you this. Yeah, so that will happen as you commit to that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think um it's just about doing life together. You know, today is my son and his wife's third anniversary. Um, he was in first grade when we started meeting together. Wow. I mean, that's how long we've been doing this, you know. And I'm not doing that to make us both feel old, but that's the whole point, is that it's about entering into relationships with other men that are going to help you continue to do the things of God down the road.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and we've celebrated a few weddings and all those things together, and so we're excited about that. Well, man, this has been a real privilege to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us today and um sharing your story and and just your wisdom. Um, it's it's been great to to kind of hear a little bit more about your upbringing and how God's used you over the years, and I certainly experience how he uses you now, and I'm ever thankful for that. Um and so I I just want to challenge everybody that's listening to to actually seek out some other men, like we've talked about. That's really the goal of this. And if you if you don't do anything else, if you get together with a couple of men that are helping you grow in your faith, man, then then that's a home run. You've you've hit the jackpot there. And so um that's all the time we have for today. And I want to thank you all for joining us. And by the way, if you have any questions or comments for me, you can click on the link in the bio and that'll show you how to get that to me. And if you want more information about how to get to to develop a group like this, then then you know, reach out to me. I would love to talk with you about that. And um, it's just been a great time to have you with us today. And so until next time, thanks for joining us for Miking Disciples. I'll talk to you later. We're we're we're gonna gather once again with the hopes of helping every man become a godly man.
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