Episode 11: Hull singer Calum Scott

In the latest episode of Moving Minds, our mental health podcast series on real Hull Trains journeys, we're joined by Hull superstar Calum Scott.

The singer songwriter has achieved more than 10 billion streams worldwide, including signature hits like his triple-platinum cover of Robyn’s Dancing On My Own and Brit-nominated ‘Where Are You Now’ with Lost Frequencies. His latest album Avenoir has also been a huge hit, with the singer performing songs from it in 68 countries across the world. 

In this candid conversation, he shares his experiences with mental health and how therapy and support from his family has helped him. 

Find information and support for your mental health on the NHS website or contact Samaritans who offer help 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at samaritans.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The Moving Minds episode that you're about to listen to does contain some conversations about mental health which might be hard to hear. Listener discretion is advised. Don't forget you can find information and support for your mental health on the NHS website. Or contact Samaritans who offer help 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Just go to Samaritans.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

He has just finished his worldwide tour. He is the golden buzzer boy. He is Hull and Proud. We have managed to get hold of the one and only Callum Scott. I am so excited to be speaking to him. From Hull to Selby, just in a minute. Don't go anywhere. You've just finished a Mammoth Tour. Yeah. The album came out late last year.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, yeah, October last year.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

There's been like so many collaborations that I want to go into. I can't even begin. H Whitney Houston. Like how are you feeling? When when was the last gig?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

The last gig was in Germany. I had like um a festival in a place called Ballingen. Nice. Uh very, very cool. Germany, I've got a lot of love for Germany. I was a I was a coach on the voice out there, so that's why there's for some reason it's just blown up over there. But yeah, I've just been I've been travelling about, like I say, I've worked with H, I've worked with Ronan, Keaton on uh on some bits, uh, went in Houston. Um it's been mental. Yeah. But I will say it has been, especially this tour on this album, has completely changed my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

I think this album in particular, Avenoir, for those who don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Yes, look proper.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Um Avenoir is uh it's my third album, and I think I think I've always been a little bit imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Because I'm a lad from hull.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

I was gonna say me too, but that would be weird. Yeah. For a lady from hole.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

A lad and lady from hull. Um, it's I just always had in the back of my mind, like, oh, it's only a matter of time before you know this all sort of goes away. And it's a a little bit of like, I'm not worthy of what I've achieved kind of thing. Um, I think probably everybody has that to some extent, but especially with the spotlight on you, that's that just amplifies it. Yeah. And I think with this album in particular, I just feel more confident and more content than I ever have. And I think because I've reached a point in my career where I've thought, do you know what? It's my I'm writing a third album, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. And I think that kind of silenced that little voice in the back of my mind that was like, oh, and it's just allowed me to be creative, it's allowed me to write songs that aren't just there to make people cry, because that is always gonna be, you know me, always gonna be my number one priority. But um, with this album, I've written songs like Roots and At Your West and Lighthouse, all these really upbeat, really happy sounding songs, and that's just widened what I can do, and so now I find myself in a position where I'm like, okay, and now I'm I I'm I'm way more diverse than I thought I was. I'm now doing festivals and being booked for headlines and festivals, and my shows are bigger, that way bigger than they've ever been. And it's just yeah, as it's changed my life in a in a really beautiful way.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

The the the reason I'm smiling so much, not just because you're absolutely smashing it, but I remember you came after COVID and did your first performance, tell me if I'm wrong, at my charity's 21st anniversary, yeah. And that was such an incredible moment, wasn't it? Well, it it was for me, like my mum and dad, and everybody in the room, but that was the first time that you'd performed properly during like Covid. How how did that feel then? Because I remember you saying how special that night was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like the magnitude of the difference, but yet it was still it was still the same.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Well, every every performance for me feels really super special because I'm getting to do something I've I love and something I've dreamed of for a long time. And after COVID, COVID for everybody was awful, um, for very in varying degrees, but I think not being able to do something you love, and in an industry, uh in a profession where my my thing is getting people together to to to to sing, to, to, to watch me perform, and that was obviously not allowed at all. So after COVID and and I got to come and perform for you, it was just the gratitude of going into a room and performing for people again was just unbelievable. Um, and I take that into every performance that I do because for me it's so incredibly important to keep keep counting my blessings and keep being grateful because I think that's what as a normal Hull lad that tours around the world and performs for the king at his coronation and performs with Ronan Keaton at Wembley Arena, I then come back to Hull and I'm sat on my couch watching my dog play with his ball. It's like you've gotta, if by counting my blessings and by being grateful, it kind of allows me to go back into just being calum again. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, and we were talking about this before we started recording. Like, I was saying, um, obviously we've known each other for a good few years now, and I was saying, like, I've just moved back to hold full time in December. And a bit like you with the imposter syndrome, part of me for such a long time was like, if I move back, people are gonna think that I'm moving backwards. But actually, it clicked that I'm not, I just got nothing to prove. I just want to be at home, I just want to be near my parents, 100%, who I am so grateful for that they're here alive, and I get on with. And I was just it just grounds you again, doesn't it? But like it's interesting, it's not about me. This I want to talk to you about how was it not just for you but for your parents' family when you went from Callum? Was you working for the council? Yeah, I was working for the council in the country. And then like and then all of a sudden it's the buzzer, the golden buzzer, yeah, like that song, that Merman, like how did you deal with that transition and what was the response like from those around you?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

It it was an overnight uh it was an overnight thing. I mean, I remember I'd started doing a couple of things for I'd I'd done the whole Daily Mail Star Search competition. Yeah, did that first year, came third, went back and won it the second year. Yeah. I was doing local bits, I was I was recording in this little studio that I'd made in my mum's house. And and life was still quite um small for me. I was still in my own city, still in my little corner of the north of East Yorkshire. And then when me and my sister applied for the show, it I remember being on the drive to Manchester, and I was saying to her, the best thing that we can get here is just some positive criticism. Yeah, yeah. And we we both went, obviously, Jade went on first, and bless her, got didn't get didn't get through and got four nose, and then I went on kind of being fuming with Simon because he's made my little sister cry, but then also, you know, wanting to impress him, but then also really nervous and was scared if in in case I got four nose. So that I think that's kind of why the audition itself has so much weight because it's it's such a whirlwind of emotion. And I think you know, after performing that and getting the golden buzzer, I don't know how my mum coped for a start, having a daughter got a four nose and a son got a golden buzzer. She would she must have been so stressed. Um but you know the the it after that it was overnight, and I remember obviously we pre-recorded that, so when I had to I had to go back working for the council for like another two or three months, not say anything. I know getting dragged into meetings, going, your work seems to have like fallen, fallen behind. I'm like, Yeah, sorry about that. If only they knew. Um, and I remember me and my sister went to um North Ferryby Legion Club where I it was the very first pub I ever performed live in. Wow. And we went there and we put it on a big screen, and I was like, got loads of my mates and was like, Oh, I've got this audition, we've got well, and it was literally from that night uh it my phone just blew up and it's been blowing up for 10 years. Wow, um, and I think going to back back to what you said about your roots, I think it for me it's so so important that I still live in Hull because that's where I was born, it's where I was raised, it's where all my family live, it's where I, as Callum, was brought up, and Callum's Scott goes all around the world, but Callum, Callum's heart bel belongs in Hull. And this is why it's important for me to do stuff with whole trains. I mean, whole trains have been beautiful with me over the years. I used to take a whole train to go from Hes uh to go to go to work in Hull. Um, and then I've been going on whole trains from Hull to London at the start of my career and all the way through. Yeah. Um, and so it's important for me to to to be back home, to be supporting um local and big charities and and businesses in Hull because that's where I was raised. Yeah. And so for me, that's where home is where the heart is on that. That's a bit douche thing to say, but really.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause because like that's how I felt like I was my most happy, like before, you know, you I've talked to you about it, obviously you supported us, but like before I developed the eating disorder at like 9-10, those years of of being in Hull were like just the best years of my life. And I think I had to go away to remember that I could go back to Hull and have the best years of my life, and like being here is just incredible. But there was one thing that um and you don't have to talk about it if you don't want, but there was one thing that really resonated with me is like I know that you struggled with light body dysmorphia, and I know that you've been in the same position as I have where there's been times where you actually wanted to end it all. Yeah. And I read that the reason you didn't was because of your mum.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

And that's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

That's the reason that I didn't. Yeah. Do you look back on that and do you remember it? Because I remember mine vividly, but then I feel like it was yesterday, and then I feel like it won't be at all. Like, how how is it for you to think back to that point and then to look how far you've come?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Do you know what? It's it's weird because there's times when I look back to who I was then. I was extremely vulnerable, I was unhappy, I was very, very cruel to myself. Um and looking back from being sat here, I it feels like a different person. But it's it's as much part of me as it was then. Yeah. So it's it's just you learn in some ways to be able to deal with and to be able to control the emotions and the voices and the and the the impulses. I mean, I'll still you when you say there about body dysmorphia, there's still times I'll look in the mirror and I'll go, I just don't like things about myself. And to some extent, I guess that everybody could pick something out that they don't like or that they wish that they had better, but I have to keep reminding myself that I'm I'm fine just the way I am, and you know, and not to put myself under too much pressure. So I think unfortunately, time, you know, as it passes, that that's one of the only things the benefit of time passing is wisdom, and you know what I mean? I wish they knew then what's feet are definitely not the a blessing from time passing. But um being able to surprised. Um but you've got to I think that's I think that's the thing is is is wisdom and being able to look back. And I I was really unkind to myself and I was very cruel to myself when I was younger, and I think that's the biggest thing that I have been able to change is how I treat myself. I think you know, if you when you look at like professionals in their in their industries, all of them will reinforce positives to themselves, yeah, positive reinforcement, and you know it seems stupid. And I remember when I was receiving therapy, and there was like, you know, you need to look at look at yourself in a mirror and tell yourself, I am enough. Yeah, and you say it five, ten times, and I used to feel so stupid doing it, but then you realise that all the time that you go in, gotta look disgusting, gotta look awful, gotta in compared to everybody else, I look horrible. You say that to yourself enough times, you believe it. Yeah, yeah. And so the the truth can the this the same can be said about being positive and reinforcing positives. So I think for me, therapy hands down saved my life.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Debs, my mum Deb's definitely was the the the core anchor as to why I'm still here. Yeah, but therapy helped me reinforce all of that strength and helped me build a really um, you know, a strong and uh unwavering support mentally. Yeah. Um but I think I think for me it's it's like say it's talking to people. I can't I can't tell you how much talking to somebody, talking to people you trust, take them from what's there and put it out there, yeah. Whether it's on paper, whether it's in art, whether it's how, you know, it is so so important.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah. I mean, it's it's incredible, isn't it? Like when you look back and think about where you were and then the tools that you've learned to get where you are now, one of the things that I admire about you is that you actually openly talk about it. Yeah. Um, which I do a lot on on my Instagram as well. And sometimes you like talk about it going, oh, nobody's gonna care, nobody's gonna listen. Like, what is this for? And then all of a sudden you realise like how many other people are going through exactly the same. And and you've like picked up on something there about the body dysmorphia, the anxiety, the mental stuff. It's always gonna be part of you, but actually, it kind of makes sure you are.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Like, I'm kind, I'm caring, I'm compassionate. I like those things about me. Do I get walked all over? Yes, sometimes, quite rightly so, of course. Um no, not quite rightly so, but you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

And I think that's the thing for me as well, is like it's so easy, especially in music. It's so easy for me to look at like something like Lost Frequencies track I did. Where are you now? That's like 1.7 billion streams. Stupid. Oh my god, it was like the two years in my life. Honestly, I was wrecking that record for about two years. I remember the first the year that we released it, I was like, oh, I was really hoping it'd go all the way, and I was like, never mind. Then the second, like it started coming back on the second floor, and I was like, what's going on? And then it was number one on the top 40 thing, and yeah, crazy. That's 1.7 billion streams. Mental, mental, mental stuff. I wrote a song about uh when I was on that bridge and was feeling like I was gonna throw my life away. Song called Bridges, and it has you know significantly less streams. It's very easy for me to look at that and go, well, that just wasn't successful, which would be such a it'd be such a cruel thing to say because that song has been people's lifeline. People have used that song to go like, oh my god, I've been in that place, I've felt low like that before, I feel like I feel seen, I feel heard, and that for me is so much more important than the accolade of like a billion streams. You know what I mean? I love that helping people and doing using my it's the same reason why I'm doing this, using my voice, using my music, using my platforms, anything I can do to make somebody feel seen and heard and loved and appreciated. Because I know when I was growing up, I I wrote a song called No Mat No Matter What, which was my sort of coming out story. Yeah. The good and the bad of it. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many messages I get about that song. And it doesn't matter that that song, you know, yes, it's not done a billion streams, yes, it's not got a Brit nomination. Does that matter? No. Because then you compare it to that the the countless people who've gone, I sent that to my mum to explain about my sexuality, and now we've got the best relationship ever, and then you just go, Well, that's what it's all about, that's what music is all about.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

And it's so important that you say that about the number thing, because I always say, like, we are more than numbers, and I don't stats and figures and likes and even like the the analogy with like your weight and stuff coming from a disordered eating eating disordered perspective. But like you say, Instagram, I love Instagram, but equally I hate it, yeah. Right? I've just had I've still not gone back on it. I've had two weeks off it because I've been on holiday, and the anxiety of going back on it is like already rare in its lumpy head. But like you say, I look at my stuff, and a lot of people like say, Why are you doing street come dancing? Why are you doing this? And I always get told, oh, it's because you're not current on TV at the moment, right? It's because you ain't got enough followers.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Right. So it's it's it's so damaging. It is it's so damaging because what it does is it sets a precedent for younger people to be like, they've set their worth on how many likes they have, how many followers they have. And it's such a it's such a sad thing to to use as a measure because you know, I went from I remember when I uh before my audition, I had a little Facebook page and I'd and it was like Callum Scott music, and it was like, oh, um here's a cover on YouTube of me singing CeeLo Green, and then here's a song, and and I remember putting on a post saying, Oh, I was I applied for Britain's Got Talent, I've got an audition tonight, you've got to watch it. Three people liked it, one of them was my mum. So two of my friends was just like, Yeah, I like that. After that audition aired, that was like 10,000 likes, right? So at the time, you could say I wasn't relevant, didn't have any have any following, have any likes, and that one moment changed everything for me. And so that's the way I look at things is like you can't look at it on likes or followers, you've got to look at it on the person, the talent, the what they're saying. Like, that's what's important because you can go from zero to hero with one post, one viral post. So, and and again, it's a bit convoluted because then going viral on a post, then there feels like there's an expectation to keep that up, and it's like just keep being you. I think if you can keep being you and you can do what you love, at the end of the day, it is more about you making sure that you're doing something you love, yeah, not getting too caught up in the the people who don't like it. I mean, a perfect example is I was in tour, I was on tour in South Africa, and I had a moment with this girl at the front row that was really, really special. Basically, I was singing, there was a praying mantis that was on my microphone. Oh wow, and I was like, oh my god, and she pointed it out, and bless her, she was so she was so unapologetically herself. She was loud, she was charismatic, and we had this lovely moment, and I stood and we stopped the show, and I gave her the praying mantis and she took care of it. And there's like it, I mean, it's been viewed three, four, five million times this post. Wow, and there's tons and tons of likes, loads and loads of love on it, and then there's equally a lot of people going, Oh my god, she got something wrong with her. Why is she shouting? Oh, why is she stopped the show? And you just sat there going, it makes me sad to think that people want to take time to say something negative because you're taking time out of your schedule to say something negative about somebody, and unfortunately, the person that reads it is gonna be affected by it. You know, we're not all made of stone, and I think that's the thing of the internet is it's it's beautiful, and equally there's parts of it that are a little bit dark, and I suppose what I'm trying to say with that is you've that's why you've got to do something that just resonates with you that you know that you enjoy that represents you, and there are gonna be people that love it, and there are equally gonna be people that have something to say about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Hallum, I am gutted because apparently we're gonna be in Selby really soon. Oh no, we're gonna have to end. But you've been absolutely incredible, and I am so grateful. And to have met you all those years ago and to where you are now, like you've not changed one bit.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah, look at you. Yeah, thriving, you're living your life, and I think that you're amazing.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Thank you very much, my darling. Love you. Thank you, and we love whole trains.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yes, we love whole trains. Plug, plug, plug. Also a new album.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yes, Avinoir.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Plug plug plug. He's not getting paid for this, so we need to plug it.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Go and buy an album, go buy the album. Thank you so much, darling. Thank you very much. You're amazing. Pleasure to be with you.