On the Couch with Biscoes
On the Couch with Biscoes is your home for honest, unscripted conversations with the people who help our local community thrive. Brought to you by Biscoes Solicitors, this podcast steps away from the legal world and into the stories, values, and experiences of the businesses, organisations, and individuals we collaborate with every day.
Each episode invites you to settle into a cosy, comforting space where real people share what keeps them moving, lessons learned, challenges overcome, and the passions that drive their work. If you’re searching for heavy legal talk, this isn’t the place. But if you want heartfelt, open conversations with the voices shaping our community, you’re in exactly the right spot.
So grab a cuppa, get comfy, and join us on the couch. There’s always room for one more.
On the Couch with Biscoes
On the Couch with Charlie Panayi
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In this episode of On the Couch with Biscoes, Alison is joined by Charlie Panayi, entrepreneur and founder of Red Squirrel Property Shop, to share the deeply personal story behind Zoe’s Law and his campaign for better melanoma awareness.
Charlie opens up about the loss of his sister Zoe at just 26 years old, following a series of missed opportunities to diagnose skin cancer. What followed was a powerful mission to drive change, working towards legislation that would ensure suspicious skin lesions are routinely tested and not overlooked.
The conversation highlights the reality of medical negligence, the challenges of navigating the healthcare system, and the emotional impact of losing a loved one. Charlie also explains the ongoing journey of campaigning in Parliament, the barriers to change, and why continued public support and awareness remain essential.
Beyond policy change, they discuss practical steps people can take: from recognising early signs of melanoma and advocating for your own health, to educating young people about sun safety. Charlie also shares his initiative to bring UV awareness and sunscreen access into schools, helping to prevent future cases.
A powerful and thought-provoking episode about loss, resilience, and turning tragedy into meaningful action that could save lives.
If you're looking for hard legal context, it isn't looking for you. It is a comfortable space for local people and our best collaborators to have a voice. So grab a couple and come and join us on the couch. Hi, um, I'm Alison and joining me on the couch today is Charlie Penai.
SPEAKER_01Hello, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00It's lovely to to see you. Um now, um, as as Biscoes, we know you uh because you own Red Squirrel properties, which is an estate agency on the Isle of Wight.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um it's not the only business that you own.
SPEAKER_01No, I do a lot of stuff. Um yeah. Well Red School actually look after stuff in Hampshire and London and Sussex and north. But no, I own like um quite different companies. I'm I'm building a medical group at the moment, so um I've got a few medical companies and we're working our way through that really.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um now I heard you speak. You came and uh you actually came and did a talk at a networking event that uh we run at Bisco's and I was totally in awe uh and inspired by um your campaign um which um has led to a change in legislation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and that surrounded um some terribly sad and awful events that happened within your family to your sister.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'll often give you the story. Yeah, so um my sister was worked in the radiology team at the hospital actually. Um in COVID they were um scanning lungs. I don't really understand they were scanning lungs or something associated to COVID, I don't know. Um but she she had all the symptoms of COVID, so her boss said, Look, look, should we give you a scan and see what's going on? Um and then he just walked in crying and said, Look, because that normally if it was you or I would have to go wait for a specialist to call us back in and talk about the results. These guys scanned people every day, they knew what cancer was. Um so he just walked in crying and showed her, he's like, Look, it's in at least three places, so I don't know what it is, but it's definitely cancer. Um and then 55 days later she died. Um it is founded negligence now, so I'm allowed to say that. Yeah. Took for some reason a few years for the NHS to accept that negligence. But um the effectively what happened is that she visited her GPs, which people should do uh a number of times over the course of five years prior to 2018. Um and the last time she went on the 2018, they said this is about a mole she was on it was that one.
SPEAKER_00This was basically she had a she had a mole that she she thought was suspicious.
SPEAKER_01Well w well, it had all the signs, it bled, it was itchy, it didn't it look on on some of our links you can see that mole, it didn't look right, and obviously we said that as well, but we're not doctors.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And on the last occasion she went to them um in 2018, that doctor said we'll just go and get it shaved off at beautician, um, because it's fine. Um so then she did go to beautician and got it shaved off. Um and that beautician was an exGP, which was quite frustrating.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She thought it was paid to be tested, because you have to if you want something tested, you have to pay for it to be tested, or opt in whatever way round. So she did, and it where she never heard anything, she assumed that meant it was fine. But actually that lady never tested it. Um so she was let down over a few points throughout those years.
SPEAKER_00So how how old was your sister?
SPEAKER_01She was twenty-six. She had two little boys. Um it was quite rapid to be honest. Um she knew she was gonna die because when she phoned me that day, she said I d I can see there's too much cancer. So what do I do? Like I've well I like well I've got well her words is she said she had nothing, and I was like, Oh, you got two little boys, you got a car, you got you know, you live in a house that like she didn't own a house, but you you know, I I we own that, so yeah. What do you want to do? Do you want it to go to the boys? You know, like you've got shares in a company I own which is worth really quite uh an amount, and what what do you want to have? So she had more than she thought. She just didn't really understand. I said, like so I think I was a practical guy for her who was like, uh we need to do it as Y Z.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, I don't think any of us really quick from Yeah, even like things she wanted to do.
SPEAKER_01So she wanted to write um she wanted to write lots of messages for the boys as they grew up, so like when their 21st birthdays, their first girlfriends or whatever, first the weddings. But she wouldn't let me or my mum write any of it. She wanted to do it. Um and in the end she just died so quickly that she I think she maybe wrote one card um because it just was so rapid. Yeah, quick. That she yeah, and I know it sounds weird, but she like planned their own funeral. It was so surreal for me because it was like, oh, it wasn't a nice experience, but she like planned a funeral as if it was her wedding. Like um, and that's what she said to me, she never got to get married, so like this is the best she's got. So she was like, I want this song when I'm going down the aisle. I was like, It's not your wedded. I was like, like so she she was she was at peace with death because she was quite spiritual, but she definitely was scared to leave her boys.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and I I'm sure that's the biggest and the hardest um that was yeah thing for her.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and um but you and your mum, I think, um, if I remember the uh recollect the story correctly, um turned what was an absolute tragedy into something that that has brought about um a really significant uh change, which which probably some people will not be aware of. So that's one of the reasons for getting you on today is to you know, as we're we're coming up to summer and people are out and they're um you know sunbathing and not not protecting themselves properly, uh they think you know they might um come across these things and and think, oh you know, should I go and get that checked? I mean the first answer is A protect yourself properly, and B if you've got a suspicion, go and get it checked.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think Zoe said to me in the last week she was alive, can I can can I make sure um it doesn't, you know, there's other boys don't have to lose their mum or so like when they're that young. Um I don't know what how to what level she meant me, but to be quite honest, there's been different important people at different stages. At that moment, I'm quite an autistic guy, I grew up to struggled with autism, so I I I understand emotions and stuff, but I never really felt real I've had lots of trauma in my life growing up with um um different things that I won't disclose, but it that was the first time I really couldn't deal with grief, and um so I really struggled for the first few months naturally. Um and then my stepdad knew what we wanted to do, so he started um the page knowing we were gonna do it, and then Portsmouth Hospital actually were the ones who started the uh CQC and everything inquest against the GPs, weirdly enough, they were that angry that they they started it, we were gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00But so basically you followed a uh procedure to to uh medical negligence claim, essentially, um for the GPs that were basically had seen her several times and didn't all that she had in most of the investigate, didn't pursue that in any way.
SPEAKER_01They had the signs of melanoma in each one of those those um doctor appointments, which was quite crazy really because it's noted. And that's why the Portsmouth specialists were so angry, because they were like, Well they didn't understand how it got through the first one, let alone the the rest of them. Um and and so they started and I know it sounds bad maybe but they they we weren't gonna sue them um because we didn't want the money, but um the the guy I won't we probably shouldn't throw anyone under the bus, but they're like if you don't they won't change a thing, so you have to. Um so then we started the Zoe's Law campaign to get the law changed for moles and just just more about awareness in general, like it doesn't have to be melanoma as well. That's what we push, but but you know, you know your body, um, and the it's been tough. Like I said, there's been different put uh one of her best friends, Leah, was really instrumental at the start with helping us with all of the Zoe's law stuff as well.
SPEAKER_00So can you just define what so you've got this change in the law, which is the same thing?
SPEAKER_01Well well uh ish. Um there's lots of things that have changed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The bit we want done still hasn't officially done.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So the reason the original thing is I looked at it and said there was loads of problems. I'm also director and um trustee of Mountbatten Hospice on the mainland and the Isle of Wight. So that I'm not saying this on behalf of Mount Batten, but I can just see there's lots of issues um with with the how things run in this country. So for me, I didn't want to go and think I can change the whole system because I'm not gonna. So I wanted to think about what could make the biggest impact, theory the least cost associated, actually would save the country money, um, and shouldn't really be a big deal. And that was no skin tag should be allowed to be removed without being tested legally. It shouldn't be allowed, like you if you're gonna get them removed, they have to be tested. Um that was the original plan, it still is the plan. We've been in parliament loads over the last few months for that. Finally start to get traction on change in that with the 10-year cancer plan and things like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't as simple as I thought. Um there's lots of changes that have happened in like the the I can't remember what you call them now, but the cameras that are in the GP. Most people have probably seen them now in their GPs, where actually if you say something about mole, they should be using that scope which takes a picture and goes to specialists to check. Um I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say it, but I'm gonna because I don't really care. But we've we've sort of got in this cancer plan an approval to use AI for that as well now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh which would be amazing.
SPEAKER_00AI in in diagnosis, I think, is a really powerful tool. Needs to it's picking up patterns and and things. Yeah, and that's cost-wise, yeah. This is no human error then.
SPEAKER_01This is the biggest trouble I've had with the government is um money. And they're like, oh, it'll cost too much to test. No, it would save you millions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01To just Zoe, and two other people I gave them an example of cost m Zoe actually was quite cheap because she only could do one treatment in the end, and that was fifty-five grand. But if it cost a few pennies to test, like you could have saved 55k. And the other two examples, one who was a member of parliament and the other one's a CEO of of um the hospice, it cost the country millions in treatment. So like it it this has been the biggest challenge. So we've got lots of little things changed over the course of the last what will be six years in May, um since she died. Obviously it's it's probably been five years of hard pushing, but um but the actual fundamental law part of the skin tag is still ongoing. Um, like I said, I was up in Parliament last month again for it. Yeah, I've learned maybe I I'm a businessman, so I understand the world, but maybe I was naive when it comes to how the government and make. And the problem is what I'm trying to do impacts the private sector and the public sector.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So changing something in what like public sector is actually weirdly easier than the private sector.
SPEAKER_00As soon as we've When you talk about the private sector, you're talking about clinics that people might go to and skin tags removed and that sort of thing. So it's just it's bridging the gap between those two things to make sure that the testing So that makes it even harder. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I've got to convince them on the public sector on one side, and then I've got to convince that we we then move over into the private sector, which then bank accounts are affected. Um but good clinics do it anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Good private clinics do it anyway. So the the good clinics aren't affected, they already do it. It's just just changing it. And I think it's so yeah, I was probably naive in terms of how hard it's been, but um there is traction, and we've had thousands and thousands of people that have heard Zoe's story, seen Zoe's story, reached out and thanked us. Even yesterday I got forward four messages from different people about her message saving their lives because of different things. Um even some in I've done a talk at a golf club once, and then someone there told their best friend who was then worried about their daughter and their daughter got checked, but her best friend, all through Zoe's Law, yeah. He heard about Zoe's Law, so he and he had melanoma. I've done I've introduced a thing where I'm getting people checked at their workplaces, so I'm getting people to go and check the specialists. Um and again they've found countless, they found three lots of melanoma in a care home last week. Um they've found in they when my team there was one who fortunately wasn't cancerous in the end but was part could have been.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I think.
SPEAKER_01Um so yeah, there's a lot of good that's coming through sharing a message.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think that's really important that people do, you know, if they've listened today and they've they're you know they're concerned either about themselves or a family member or whatever, it's it's just go and get checked.
SPEAKER_01We have had people it's not even melanoma, like I said, as well, it might be other things, it might be lung cancer was one of them. But it when you hear Zoe's story, it's about just you do know your body um and actually don't accept no. I know, I'll just be a busybody and just just make their life hell until they see you properly. And that's that's the I know it sounds harsh, but unfortunately, without alienating myself, bear in mind what my position is at certain places, like there is a broken system. So we can't we have to look after ourselves as a priority and not not just accept in our case we accepted the doctors know better than us because the GP the sh I think it was you know, three different GPs said it's fine. Well, okay. I guess it's fine. Because I'm not a doctor. Um so but she did know really in hindsight, she did know. And what what was really even more bizarre was because she died, the Portsmouth specialist, Dr. King, um rung my other sister because he looked I guess he must have looked through our notes, our personal notes, and um he saw that she was having some one of her lymph nodes and her neck that got signed off by the hospital, not Portsmouth Hospital or different hospital, as everything's fine. And he just phoned my sister and said, Look, I know this is weird, but do you mind coming and see after I can sign you off? And turns out she had cancer. Um now fortunately because Zoe died, that happened, which not fortunate Zoe died, but to Marie two things wouldn't have got linked. Wouldn't have happened, and Marie ended up um, you know, she's alive and well now, um, because of Dr King just being a bit proactive and thinking, well, wait a minute, yeah, let me look at you actually. And um so she she's alive now because of that, so um yeah, it's quite scary really. And there's two people directly near me that um that that I've seen that with. Obviously, I've seen a lot of other stuff, but yeah, so it's it's a it that's the main law, it's not as simple.
SPEAKER_00It should it's are there ways in which um if if anybody's listening to this they think, oh, I'd really like to get behind that campaign. Are there ways that people could help you with that?
SPEAKER_01Well I'll share the links with you because we've got the petition still. Although we're already in Parliament, I think some people might think, oh well, I won't sign the petition because you're already in Parliament. Well not the more weight we have the better.
SPEAKER_00More signatures.
SPEAKER_01The the more signatures, the more noise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and and I don't mean that in a cheesy line, but the more noise people can make for us, and like even us getting into Parliament has been years of me hitting my head against a brick wall to be honest. Um, and actually how it came about in the end was uh a a Member of Parliament up in um Norwich Way, Suffolk, um, sorry, Ben, heard about Zoe's story. He's got melanoma, he actually got Prime Minister's questions, so it's all right. And then he invited me. He said, Look, I want to actually because it's very hard for them to get Prime Minister questions. Um it's pop it's out of the pot. I don't know if you know that or not, but it's out of the pot, so you might never get one. Um and he said, I want to use that to talk about Zoe's law with you. And um so you know, so if the noise and awareness wasn't made about Zoe, that I don't know how long these things would have taken, and that was a real in-road story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I had a similar story yesterday, so our annual charity at Bisco's this year is Sophie's Legacy.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um talking to Charlotte uh around the struggles that she's had around uh ch uh the children's cancer um agenda and the task force, etc. And and the the fact that we've had changes of government, changes of health ministers, um creates delay in in these things, which actually should be, you know, that they're they're not a thing that are political. Um they are something that that should should just happen in my mind. I'm sure you feel the same. This is an identity I felt as well. Absolutely, and that you know, to hear that actually it's that um the the government wheels turning and then stopping and then changing to to a different set of wheels or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01The problem is it's being in parliament regularly, and um I'm up there against it, and so they're they they know I'm a direct speaker, so um it no one works together that well. Um and it's sort of like yeah, there's lots of changes all the time, and then just because they're in that party means they don't really want to agree to that because then they're agreeing to the wrong things. And Ashley, who was a Labour um well Wesley's the mi uh the minister, but Ashley was whatever, she was phenomenal. Um but she's had to step down um recently because of her own cancer. And that will have a big even though Wesley's a p well people see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um Ashley's a real driving force behind the cancer plan and everything else, and um so that will have a knock-on effect. Um how long for yeah, we don't know. When you get the other politics and the war and all these things going on, the Iran side, you know, it just it someone that actually has people's health just can but look, I don't want to like I said, I don't want to alienate myself, but I'm just gonna say how it is. That's that's the problem. And I didn't realise naively that it would be that for something so simple would be that hard, um, where it's just common sense how much it will save the the country.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I perfect understand. So if people want want to support, we will um put some links out when we when we put this podcast out that they can sign up to the um the petition. Is there anything else that anybody could do? Just sharing a story, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, if you know anyone you think can help me, I'm open look, I'm a busy guy, so I I I I I'm not gonna say I'll respond to everything rapidly, but I anyone who thinks there's a way they can help or share her story or talk to someone or know someone, then I'm open to it because like I said, I think people can think, well he's got departments, that means it's done. It's not, I have to I have to make their life difficult um to to get something done. So the more we keep doing, and it and I feel it is tiring, so like you know, the as much support as possible really. And I think it's just going back round. I know I know Rowan's is based in this area. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're we're at Spark Community Space um doing this recording, so let's use this this lovely room. Uh and the Rowans are here every Friday.
SPEAKER_01Right, I don't I don't know if they do this, I don't want to step on tyres, but obviously someone we're really passionate about in Mount Batten is and I I assume Rowans do a similar thing, is um is the you know creating a life plan as well, like and it sounds really morbid because no one really wants to think about death, but like creating your plan uh uh we at Mount Batten we call it you know my my life, my plan, and and it's a document, it's a bit like a will, um, and it's just a document about everything you want to happen. So it is a little bit like a will, but it's a slightly different one, and then it's even like if you got ill in this scenario, how would you want it to be treated? Because if you think about Zoe, Zoe thought she was gonna die um w with nothing, is what she said. Um because but actually uh when you think about well, what who do you want like their dad's brilliant, but you know, what do you want to have one of the boys? What like what's your personal view? The money that I said about the shares that she's got in a company I run. What you know, I don't think you should let them have at 18, although hopefully they don't listen to this and blame me. Um they will I don't think they should have that sort of money at eighteen. So like what when when do they see that?
SPEAKER_00When how do they see so so these things about things that so important a lot of people put off, and again, you know, the we we have a big thing at uh at Bisco if we have a uh uh We must have a will service we we have a wheel service, but it's one of those things that people tend not to think about. They think they a lot of people think I've got nothing and then they forget that they bought a house or they've got you know they've started a business or whatever it is. So so making a will is a very, very important thing. Lasting powers of attorney, you know, that what happens if I lose capacity during this during this period of time you guys obviously lost what you know what how what does that look like? How can I be helped with that? So those those are things that we advise on a lot.
SPEAKER_01Um people don't like to think about it and do it too. Leaving that document to the last minute is really it's too late, and and as a hospice, that's the bit that like not from Zoe's law perspective, now as a hospice, that's the bit like actually the earlier people can start planning these things, um the the better your family and you and everyone can support you, and even like this, you you you start to with Zoe's law. Obviously I supported Mount Bam before Zoe's passing, but um but it all just everything comes together and when we look at charities I just think like again something I found out um through this journey. I've always done a lot of charity work, so if you look into me, you'll see I've got awards for the last 16-17 years in the UK for community stuff I do. But with this Zoe's Law thing and mount and specifically, I've realised how it not many work together. It's very like, oh, but this is my bit, and it's like but we want the same outcome. Um and I and uh again that's a learning thing. Now I I've been quite good at not like at Melanoma UK and Skin, and they've come on board me, maybe because of the noise I was making, but they're huge, but they've like come straight like hey, let's help you work together. So it's quite a relief in the melanoma space, but I've seen it's it's and there's a charity space, everyone works together, you get further and quicker, and um something we also want to do. So if anyone's listening to this, you mentioned it at the start about sun cream and things like that and your skin. I think a lot of this problem is ignorance and um lack of knowledge. Um so my son goes to a reception, he's he's just starting school in September, and we got a letter saying, Can you put sun cream in a bag when they come to school? Because obviously schools can't afford to pay for all that. Um but there's no real education around that, and I'm aware actually some parents maybe can't afford as well. Maybe it's normally ignorance, but maybe can't afford it. Um so we've just launched, and I use my son's school as the pilot one to do it because of why not. Um where I've I've got the sun cream um dispensers put in the schools with a whole wall about what and they they assign a a s a person every week who looks at the UV every day at the school, one of the pupils, one of the children. So they put on the board what the UV is. Do you need sun cream? Do you need a hat? Because actually people think there's a bit of cloud says I don't need sun cream. So it's irrelevant to do the UV the UV exposure. So I've just launched that literally three weeks ago because I've been away for three weeks, so just before. Um and I'm gonna put that into every school on on the Isle of Wight and obviously places I know in London. Um, but anyone listening, if you're a teacher or head teacher or something and you're you like you you'd have to pay into it. I've got the products, I've got the education, we've got board games, we've got um like a like books, everything.
SPEAKER_00So and getting young people to understand the dangers from from an early stage, we'll will stop them hopefully, uh growing up into adults who work on building sites without tops on and well I've got a Zoe's Law football team and we've we've been quite successful over the years.
SPEAKER_01We've got a good team. And I remember we played in a tournament um a couple of summers ago, and it was really hot. And two of my players were there with no sun cream off, top off. One of them was ginger, I've seen he's gonna know who he is when he listens to this. And he was burned. I was like, what are you doing? He's like I'll be fine. I was like, please, you're literally here to play with Zoogelong team for about skin cancer, and you'll do it that's it's it's ignorance, lack of knowledge, lots of and I think what I recognise with the school side is that there's a few areas. Schools maybe I don't have the special special knowledge of how to educate. Probably as well for for providing it, other than sending a letter home in a school bag saying, I know the little kids told me about the because we've got we've got assemblies as well, so recorded assemblies, so they don't need someone to educate. Um and they talked about the Bobby Leaf um but someone really burnt, didn't look good. But it's good because they then go home, like my son bloody tells me everything to do of his day, which means nothing to me. So it tells me about gravity and then ask me a million whys and all that. I don't even know the answer anymore. But um it's good because then it gets them going home because like I said, it I I there's a mixture of issues. You've got the school that don't have the budget or knowledge, and then you might have parents who don't have the budget or knowledge, and actually some just don't w w w without paying too harsh, some also just don't really pay any attention and and maybe don't think about those things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Once we're gonna go to the kids.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we get into the kids, they'll go home and talk about it, and they see the big board and they think, oh, what is a UV today? And now they've got the dispenser, so there's no reason why someone hasn't got some green at school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um just becomes the norm. And that's that's what I thought. And that that was like an idea that that sort of come and then I spoke to the skin guy because they because of the awareness we were making, they were speaking to me quite a lot, and I said, you know, I don't they and they had some all the products for me, I was like, well, let's do it, you know. So it it that's when it was a good example of where charities come together. I actually remember I haven't responded to the melanoma guys, but the the I mean charities do come together, they can do really good things. Yeah. Um and Zoe's Law isn't a registered charity, it's a awareness campaign. I don't want uh anything we raise for Zoe's Law, I give to charities that were important to Zoe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and working in those spaces.
SPEAKER_01And I pay for Zoe's Law because I've I've had people I do a lot of ch I've got a lot of challenges coming up to keep uh what I realise, as you guys are fully aware, is when you do things you don't like, people tend to pay more attention. I think one of your team mentioned they're doing the run uh great sound and that people pay attention. So I do a lot of awareness related things, um and and I think if anyone listening wants to do any of them they can come along.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Or donate.
SPEAKER_01And then anything we donate we give to charities anyway, because I pay for we pay for Sully's Law.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um the so they want to do some crazy stuff, then ping me a message and then they can join me. You regret it because you I won't let you go then.
SPEAKER_00Charlie, thank you so much. I think that's that's a lot of information. Um hopefully um we can put all the links out and uh contact details so that if anybody does want to do some crazy things for Charlie, they can to raise some money and some awareness in this area. Um thanks so much for coming in.
SPEAKER_01That's all right, thank you for having me.