IR Open Mic - 26-03 - Full Interview with Belinda Jain (Season 1, Episode 6)

Welcome to Open Mic, the airport- and aviation-focused podcast hosted by Curtis Grad, Chief Executive and Founding Partner of Modalis Infrastructure Partners. Each episode features in-depth conversations with global aviation leaders—airport executives, investors, innovators, and policy experts—exploring the trends, challenges, and opportunities shaping the airport and aviation landscape.

In this episode, Curtis speaks with Belinda Jain, Vice President, Customer Experience and Commercial at JFK International Air Terminal, operator of Terminal 4 at New York’s JFK Airport. Together, Curtis and Belinda explore n airport commercial strategy, how terminal operators can differentiate in a competitive airport environment and why customer experience must evolve into a broader “terminal experience” that includes passengers, employees, airlines and partners. 

They dive into:
✈️ Belinda’s global aviation journey—from the Queen Alia Airport project in Jordan to leadership roles in Mumbai and now JFK Terminal 4.
🏗️ Reimagining Terminal 4 through a major transformation program spanning passenger experience, employee experience, commercial strategy, and terminal ambience.
🛍️ The complexity of redeveloping and modernizing more than 100 concessions while maintaining operations for tens of thousands of daily passengers.
🤝 Why terminal experience goes beyond passengers—building a unified ecosystem that includes employees, airlines, and partners.
🌆 Creating a distinct “sense of place” at JFK Terminal 4 while aligning with the broader One JFK vision.

Timestamps:
1:06  Queen Alia Airport: Lessons from a landmark project
4:04  Leading transformation at JFK Terminal 4
4:50  Commercial redevelopment and concession strategy
12:10  F&B investments and terminal experience versus customer experience
16:40  Crazy aviation story: Opening day of a new terminal
18:15  From fashion and retail to airport commercial strategy
29:27  Magic Mirror: Rapid-fire questions with Belinda

🎧 Tune in for insider perspectives from airport and aviation thought leaders.
🔔 Subscribe for future episodes.
💬 Like and Comment: How can airport terminals differentiate themselves while delivering a unified passenger experience?
🌐 Visit https://www.modalisinfra.ca/openmic to hear more episodes and stay informed about the global aviation developments that matter to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Open Mic from Modalis Infrastructure Partners, where aviation talks and the world listens. From global airport and aviation developments to disruptive technology, airport investment, and much more, we unpack the trends, technologies, challenges, and opportunities shaping the global aviation industry. Now here's your host, Curtis Grad.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to Airport IR, Open Mic Podcast by Modales. I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Belinda Jane, Vice President to Customer Experience and Commercial at JFK International Air Terminal, better known as the operator of JFK Terminal 4. Belinda, thank you and uh welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Hi, thank you for inviting me, Curtis. Nice to see you.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

We've been able to see each other a few times over the last year or so at different conferences, but thought it was overdue for us to have a proper catch up on open mic.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

It's really lovely to be with you again.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, we go back a long way. I guess we first met back in Queen Alia in Jordan on what a certain friend of ours used to call the Beautiful Project. That was back in started in 2008. We we went through a lot of interesting times there. It was a pretty challenging project back in the beginning. It seems like we must have done something right, though, because it's been a pretty remarkable success story. I guess what did they start with? Four million passengers back in 2007, and now 2025, we're nearly 10 million passengers, which goes well beyond any of those even initial optimistic forecasts. So, what do you think is the most enduring memory uh of those days, and why do you think that this project was a success? It's pretty pretty interesting uh case study for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

This project was very special for me. I was involved in the bidding process uh for the airport and then joined the management team. So, you know, as part of the tender process, I was uh developing the 25-year marketing plan for the airports. And early in the process, I realized that the work that we do in airports do not only affect the airport, but also affects the economy, the tourism and aviation industry of the country. Also, as you remember, in this VOT, the shareholders were also involved in the operations and the development of the project as contractors. So I guess the most memorable lesson for me, which I tend to follow up to date, is that I have two employers in every airport project. I'm involved in the corporate entity that owns and runs the airport, and the airport itself is my second employer. My loyalty always goes to the airport because the impacts that are connected are wider than in a business enterprise.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah. Well, and I remember that vividly coming in as the CEO about three or four months into the project. You guys were already on the ground, ADP was the operator. But you know, there were 300 and some odd employees, in which six or seven of them were ADP employees, and it was always a bit of an issue of divided loyalty. You felt that uh paychecks were coming from Paris, not from Amman. But I always felt uh I knew who you were working for. I won't comment on some of the others, but we knew where your loyalties rested, and it was a pretty interesting, challenging project. And when I talk about that certain someone that was calling it the beautiful project, that was our good friend Rodolfo. And he he and I were the only sort of other expats in the company at the time. So it was it was an interesting mix and challenging. But as you say, having contractors in the boardroom and and others made every board meeting a bit of a uh we had Game of Thrones going on before we knew what that meant. Exactly. So, you know, I guess now it's been what two and a half years since you joined the JFK Terminal 4 team, and sounds like you've been enjoying yourself, but what have you been working on so far and what other plans do you have in the works?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Well, it's been an incredible journey so far. And while it's coming with challenges, the work has been very rewarding. As you know, at JFK H terminal is managed independently, and in my role, I lead two main projects: a North Star program, which reimagines the future of Terminal 4 across key pillars of experience, the employee experience, the passenger experience, airlines, commercial, and terminal ambiance. This program leads on delivering a unified JFK experience aligned to the vision of the Port Authority of New York, New Jersey, while establishing what makes Terminal 4 distinct. Our airline mix and our passenger profiles, and of course, our culture. The second largest project at hand at the moment is the commercial redevelopment, which consists of the major overhaul of all our concession programs from awarding new contracts to developing new concepts. We are revamping up to 100 concessions, going through a complete renovation at the moment with new brands, new concepts, a very strong New York sense of place. This redevelopment uh brought new lounges first to Terminal 4, followed by a revamp in our convenience stores and our food and beverage program. And in the next two years, we'll be continuing also with our retail and duty-free experiences. Uh, I don't know if you've read the news, but we've awarded last week uh officially our duty-free contract uh for 16 years uh to a partnership of Arianta International with International Shops. It's a joint venture that benefits from global and local uh understanding and expertise, and we are very excited to kick start this program with them now.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, that's interesting. I got to know Arianta in in Cyprus as well. They were and are continuing to be part of that consortium, but you know, 16 years that that's a that's a long concession, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Well, it's long from the perspective of uh European airports, maybe, but I would say in the environment in which we are with very intensive capital expense and you know very expensive manpower, it's uh it's the time that you need to ensure that the business is sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I always felt that was always kind of one of the issues of the European concessions. They were almost too short to really get a good knowledge of the business and and even the evolution of the business. You know, you're probably looking at possibly two or three cyclings of the capital investment throughout that 16-year period, too, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

You know, in in some European airports now you also have more and more joint venture with airports. Uh we've had it in Paris. So I think it's becoming a bit more long-term as well. Um, except that the airports are getting more and more involved in the business of concessions.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Back in Jordan, I think uh we had a GTP was 25 years. Yeah, exactly. And so you you have to have a very strong relationship built from the start, and and it comes right down to the capital planning as well. And and again, that was a big part of what you and I worked on in Jordan at the time is you can think about the next five years, but what about the the 20 that go after it, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

You need to set up the uh governance that allows you really to not only manage when you're here, but also over the years when you're no longer there.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, like these shorter-term concessions, they're almost relationship-based because the person you negotiated the deal may very well be there at the end of the deal, but when it's a 25-year subconcession, you've got to make sure you've got resilience and evolution uh built into the documents for sure. So now you held a fairly similar role in Mumbai as VP commercial, that was the new terminal development project. Uh, how do these two experiences between JFK and and Mumbai compare? I'm sure there's some similarities, but there's probably lots of differences there too, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Well, I guess Terminal 2 in Mumbai was a brand new terminal. Um so while my role was similar, I worked very early on the design and planning of the commercial space. So working at early stage with architects and designers, deciding how much square footage we are going to be allocating to each session category, and also where in the terminal we wanted that space to be located. At terminal four, we are a running terminal, which has been operational close to 25 years now. And uh to achieve the optimum ratio between you know food and beverage, retail, duty-free lounges, we had to convert spaces, we need to reconfigure it, some concession layout, and all that while serving 80,000 to 90,000 passengers a day who still need to be able to eat. So that has been a different operational challenge. The one thing though that I would say is very similar and has been similar to airport development that I've worked with, and you have been one of them along with uh with me in Jordan, I would say is again and again, every time we touch on infrastructure upgrades or the development, it affects the organization and the communities. And I really discover over the years that I'm deeply passionate with the work we are doing when it actually also helps the community, the employees in airports to update their skill set in new ways of working in the infrastructure that they suddenly inherit. I think that has been a really fantastic experience. You you set the standard with the terminal infrastructure, and then you set a standard with the experience of the people who work there.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

And I think you know, you make a good point about when you've got a brand new concession, a brand new program like we did in Jordan Jordan, it's a it's a blank slate. When you're stepping into an operation that's been operating for over 20 years, there's a lot of established retailers and commercial operators there that have a pretty good idea of how the business runs, and you're kind of coming in on a train that's already moving down the track and trying to redirect some of that program is is sometimes challenging. I'm I'm sure. And they both come with challenges, but at the end of the day, it it's about how you make how you make good business decisions based on data. And I guess the tricky part is when you start with a brand new airport or terminal like Jordan, you don't have the track, the track record of the data. But I guess you've been spending a lot of time in JFK trying to develop and and leverage the data that you have, right, to make good decisions.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

We we started actually a little bit in a blank state from a data perspective. We had a lot of data coming from the concessioners, but they were not necessarily aligned to the passenger mix or to the way the airlines also were planning their development at Terminal 4. So we actually really engaged in a lot of uh workshops and passenger surveys and insight and trying to collate all this uh data together and try to understand how we are working in a collaborative way to ensure that we actually deliver the best experience to our passengers. You know, for instance, we used to have our ASQ with relatively low scores in the concession for a variety of food and beverages. So we still had the square footage, but we didn't necessarily provide a variety of uh culinary experiences. Over the last couple of years, we've really invested on that with our FNB partners. And currently, not only have we been uh awarded as uh the most improved terminal at JFK this year with ASQ, but we also see that particular line of variety of food and dining experiencing increased. So data is important, and working together without making any presumption is also an important thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Exactly. And you know, we'll talk a little bit more in a bit about your customer experience program, but it's I I find it interesting that CX in some clients it rests with operations, sometimes it rests with commercial as it does with you, and in some organizations it's completely different or it's completely separate from the two and it it operates independently. But I don't know that there's a right answer for for every occasion, but it seems like every organization finds a different way of of approaching CX and and building it into the culture, or if if they're not successful, sometimes it's it's not even uh that it's embedded in the culture, it's an afterthought. But it seems in GFK Terminal 4 for you're you're really forefront about the customer experience relating to commercial activity and the flow through the terminal, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Yes. So again, I think we're looking at terminal experience rather than customer experience because we we also consider that employees, passengers, airlines are equally our customers. And so we we wanted to really reinforce the message uh across the organization that it's the terminal experience and and envisaging uh all this pillar of experience with a particular roadmap, with a particular focus area. And you know, while, for instance, on the commercial uh program we are emphasizing a New York sense of place, we also equally work on how do we work with our concession partners? What is the governance system we want with our partners? So it's not only delivering the end user experience as passengers, it's also how do we work together, and similarly with airlines or our employees. We don't only consider the employees of JKIT, we consider the employees of our business partners, of our concession partners, the whole ecosystem of the terminal as part of our employee experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, they're also consumers too.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

And they are consumers, of course. They are consumers in our food and beverage, and they are also every day utilizing the space, utilizing the infrastructure. So it's important also that they are satisfied with it so that they can deliver the best experience to the passengers.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

It's kind of an interesting story. Every time I come through Vancouver Airport, I walk by the 7-Eleven, this convenience store, which you think you know, it's a 7-Eleven, it's a convenience store, whatever. It is the most highly used store on land side by all the airport employees because it's accessible to everybody. And when you're when you're on a more restricted wage, uh, you know, that becomes important. So you you've got to be able to market your offer to the full range of clients, not everybody's buying Gucci, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:23

That's correct. And interesting enough, there's also beyond the concession program something very interesting at Terminal Four, is we realized when we did employee engagement surveys that we have generations of uh employees. They're the parents worked and then their kids working at Terminal Four. There's a very strong loyalty to the terminal. They really want to continue working at the terminal, but they also want to, you know, do other things, work for different companies. And so an element that we are working on at the moment is also to create an HR network so that we are able to really have transparency on the job skills, uh, have uh transparency of on the job offers that are available across the terminal, and also share best practices among uh HR experts in the best way to build this community of employees at terminal four.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

That's a culture bit that you talked about a bit earlier, right? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

We call it the T4 state of mind, it's a very strong concept. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a New York state of mind.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I like it. I like it. I like it. I like it. So changing gears a bit, we uh have this tradition on IR open mic where we love to talk about and share crazy stories and and memorable events from our our career. And you and I experienced a few of those ourselves, but we'd love to hear the about the craziest thing you've ever experienced uh in your airport career so far.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

I don't know if it's crazy, but I think it's something that everyone can relate to in our industry, is the day of an opening of a new terminal. You're one minute earlier, you're finishing your touch-ups, and you know the terminal is still brand new, and and suddenly a minute later, passengers are here, totally unfazed. Like it's always they've been always there.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Uh, I think it's a combination of anticipation and absolute terror, right? It's like I can't wait, but oh my god, if anything goes wrong, God help us all, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Yeah, you've done your aura 10 times, you're already set up, and the first passenger comes, and you're still don't know if it's a passenger or one of your colleagues. And they just walk in the space like it was open forever, which I think is uh is very uh emotional. And and I think anyone who has been in the industry is able to relate to that very crazy moment.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

No, it's it it's one of those memorable things that you every time you open a terminal, it's really sort of seared in your mind for the rest of your life, right? The good, the bad, and and sometimes the ugly. But honestly, half the time, the the things that we are worried about, nobody else notices either, right? Nobody expects perfection on the first day, at least they shouldn't. You also spent some time with uh Chanel in Mumbai. Uh that sounds like an interesting experience. And if I recall your early career, you also had uh background in fashion and retail. So this is kind of combining to almost everything that you've done in your career landing on your lap in in JFK. But how has this shaped your perspective on commercial strategy?

SPEAKER_03 18:34

So I work for Nike and Chanel, and both are very strong brands. I think having worked for these brands shaped how I look at terminals and how I see airports as brands and destinations on their own. As I said earlier, finding what makes them consistent with the environment in which they are, the circumstances of the place in which they're located. And to layer that, I I guess my video experience influences the belief that customer experience is paramount and is actually central function to any business.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, it's at the end of the day, it all comes down to pulling all the experience you've had in your career together to leverage what you do in your in your in your current role. And that and that's I guess when you're young, you don't know what you don't know when you start your career, but suddenly you're like, oh, I'm actually learning things as I go and and applying it. So it's been interesting to watch the evolution in your career. Like we we all know each other from when we know each other, right? But then you start looking, you know, we're wow, I didn't realize she was in Mumbai. I didn't realize what she was doing. So as I was getting prepared for this this interview, I knew a lot of that, but it was kind of a good reminder that we don't all just sit idle waiting for the next time we're we're gonna sit down for a glass of wine and a ketchup, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Yeah, I I think every every experience actually led me to the next experience. Everything that you learn, you know, technically or just through the experiences and the challenges you're facing helps you for the next role. In in my case, it looks a bit disconnected or disjointed from people's perspective because I have fashion, I have retail, I have airports globally and locally, and but ultimately I think that everything when you tell the story, everything is very interconnected. And our world is more and more connected. Uh, and it's very interesting to see people moving from one organization to another, but ultimately very strong industry, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

That's part of the great joy that I get now, being able to, you know, connect people that I've met through the course of my career. And I did this recently with you and a good friend of mine when we were in Toronto a few months back at an ACI conference and was able to introduce you to Elizabeth Brown, who is now the CEO in Victoria. But you know, our history goes back a long way, uh, Elizabeth and I as well. My wife and I were in Jamaica for three and a half years, and then uh her and her husband were there as well. And so you have that sort of common denominator that you always kind of go back to. And over the years we've got a chance to continue keeping in touch, but also doing some work with her in different places like in San Diego and even in Victoria as well. But it was it was fun to see the two of you connect and and and share some stories as well.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yes, I think that moment was very special to me. And over the last couple of months, I've also been lucky to meet a lot of women in our industry at leadership level. I think that we often don't know each other as much, and and you know, everyone, every one of us has their own journey, their own experience. But I realize that it's at any age, at any level of your experience, being able to connect with other women who have gone through some of your challenges or not yet gone through. Challenges whether you're you know looking up or or having someone looking at you also with uh with questions, it's it's really a great opportunity to reinforce that women's spirit and and sisterhood as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Well, and on that theme, about a year and a half ago, I guess, uh I introduced you to a good friend of mine and a good friend of hers as well. This is Sev and Peter G, as we like to call him, did a bit of work for you at JFK, and it was really interesting to get the three of you acquainted and start working on the program. It was fairly early on when you joined JFK, but that customer experience program and and what you're trying to accomplish there, really trying to set T4 apart from the others. And you talked about this earlier, but you've got competing terminals. It's a bit unusual in that in many airports are competing against other airports, but in one hunk of real estate, you're competing with other terminals that are already established, but others that are being developed as well. And be kind of interested to hear about how how you see yourself setting yourself apart from the existing competitors and the future ones, and and what you see in in store for the competition and and what that means for the passenger as well. Because I think there's healthy tension when you've got competition between terminals, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Yeah, there's um there's a healthy tension, um, but they ultimately we are all aligned to a unified vision from the Port Authority of New York, New Jersey in one JFK. So there's a lot of, I would say, baseline vision and baseline experience that we all set. And then we have again different uh vision for our terminals based on our passenger profiles and our airline partners. And then we also have different culture and way of working. So, you know, for the last 25 years, JFK IT has developed a very collaborative culture at Terminal 4 with our airline and business partners. We really act as a community. It's our strengths, it's our differentiating asset. And as I mentioned, while we're building this unifying vision, we actually have built on top of the JFK1 vision a very distinctive Terminal 4 vision, which was developed with the contribution of our airline partners, the employees, and the stakeholders all together. So that makes us very strong and continue to be very agile as the business requirement meets.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And that's the real the art and the science, I guess, behind you know, with the port authority providing enough guideline and structure to have that one sort of vision for the for the overall airport, but not to constrict or or suffocate the creativity of each individual terminal operator and and their vision. And and each one of those groups of airlines has a very different focus as well. If if you're an LCC, you have a different view of what you expect from your terminal versus uh long haul international or or when you've got the the luxury carriers coming in from Qatar or Dubai or or where have you. So you know that it's a kind of an interesting experiment that's been going on for 20 some odd years.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yes, we're lucky to have uh airline partners that are very dedicated to deliver the best customer experience on board, whether we're looking obviously at Delta or Anker Tenant, whether we're thinking Singapore Airlines, Emirates, but Virgin, Atlantic as well, uh, or Air India, ELAL. These are very strong carriers that really invest a lot in their passenger experience. And and we are obviously setting our standard to the game that they are also asking us to.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

And it goes to that next layer with your retailers and your food and beverage operators as well. And and they've become pretty adept at understanding who's coming off of which airplane and and what their customer profile is. So learning from your from your operators is pretty important as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

That's correct. And you know, again, just as a as a memory, we have more than 135,000 square feet of uh lounge. I think that probably we're still the largest uh footprint in lounge in the US, huge, which obviously sets um a certain standard in terms of what is the premium experience outside of the lounge in our gatehold areas, for instance, or in our retail hall areas.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

So when you're not plotting commercial and customer experience strategy, what are you doing in your spare time? What what is what about hobbies, entertainment, amusement, uh maybe the odd obsession? You've got to have something more than just work, I hope.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Well, my my obsession is about travel and discovering new places and culture. And I'm also a big foodie and living in New York, uh, it's such a ground for exploration of food and renew restaurants. Um, so my weekends are pretty busy with that.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Well, and I can attest to that. I do recall us having a very nice meal in in New York. I can't remember where it was. Maybe you you remember, but it was um place you'll have to redirect me, or we'll have to share another meal again next time I'm in New York.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Anytime, Cotis.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Actually, I was gonna ask you earlier anything you miss from the food scene in Mumbai, or were you able to find everything you were missing from India in New York?

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Well, the over the last five years, I would say uh New York has become a really good scene for Indian food, but there is one snack that I used to have in India and I have not been able to find as good, is called Panipuri. So it's a snack that I've tried in different places in New York, it doesn't taste the same as it was in Bandra Mumbai.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Well, and I I find that as well when you think about our history and where we've traveled and where we've lived, that when you've when you've had Lebanese food in Jordan, which is largely Lebanese expats living in Jordan, it's the real deal, right? And and as good as it might be in New York or Vancouver or wherever, it's never quite the same. And I'm a bit of a wanderlust type person as well, and and that's the fun of all these crazy projects we work on is you get to experience the culture, the food.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

And learn the language.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

And learn the language or or learn the customs. But the the tricky part is that you're never fully satisfied, you want to keep on traveling. So I guess we just have to keep on doing that, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Yeah, talking about the language. It you know how easy it is to ultimately start understanding what people are saying in a different language because you live there, but you never are able to make a sentence.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

There's another real prime example of uh somebody speaking the language. Remember our good friend Mohammed Reda in Jordan, uh, the chief technical officer. The guy spoke five languages plus the technical language of of airports, and and he had so much he was trying to express that sometimes it was in all five languages and technical at the same time. And so I always felt we needed a little teleprompter below because you know that it was a pretty complex uh project, but trying to express how to make it work was not always easy, not just for for Mohammed, but but for all of us as well. And I I really look back on that time fondly, but it was it it was the most stressful time in my life, but it was also one of the most satisfying as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

So we had such a good time.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

So we're we're heading to the home stretch here, and we like to cap off with something we call magic mirror. And it's not a scientifically proven psychometric test of any sort, but it's just to get get to know you a little bit better. And so we've got a set of 15 questions. Uh it's meant to be rapid fire, whatever comes to the top of your mind. And we'll start with something aviation, your favorite aircraft, civilian, military, current, or historical.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

So I'm not very good in type of aircraft, but I would say anything with Embraer because I love smaller aircraft. I feel that when you're on a smaller aircraft, you actually feel like you're flying. Um, so I have a particular fondness for Embraer.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, it's more personal for sure. And again, when you look back at JFK and I had the good chance of spending some time at the TWA terminal and looking back in time and see the old constellation on display there. And I got to got to meet your CEO or well during that period as well. And it was it was quite it was literally like stepping back in time into that old terminal. And you think you look at that airplane and you go, that's when airplanes and aviation were still it was still chic and it was still novel, and and sometimes you feel like it's been commoditized now, right? Good thing in in this part of Canada there's still lots of routes that have smaller airplanes, so you get that that more personal taste. How about apples and oranges?

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Apples.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Your favorite apples, coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Coffee.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

I knew that. And flat or sparkling?

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Very much sparkling.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yes, I I knew that answer as well. Uh this one I don't know. Preference for cats or dogs?

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Dogs, but most specifically my beagle, Tia.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Okay, and scariest animal.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Cockroach.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Cockroach, oh yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

I'm very scared of them, particularly when you travel in Asia, like in Malaysia. I've seen uh one of the cockroaches that probably had the size of my hand. It's can be very big.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

You you know my wife Sally, and she can be quite expressive. And she stepped on a dead cockroach in Jamaica once. I thought there was a murderer in the house. Like, oh my god, thank God it was dead. But uh yeah, I agree. Cockroaches are not warm and cuddly, that's for sure. Favorite classic car.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Portia K-man.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yes, very nice. Famous person, living or dead, that you'd like to have dinner with. That's that's always an interesting question to ask.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Alive, Hillary Clinton. She still very much inspires me.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Okay. Yeah, that would be an interesting conversation, and it might be one of those you want to just keep on talking for sure.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Greatest fear.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Well, still today, the public speaking, but I work on it.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Okay, well, you're you're doing fantastic here, and there's only literally hundreds of thousands of people listening, right? We're working we're still working on the on the subscribers, but we're we're getting close. My favorite dessert.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Any pastry with coffee.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Okay. And earliest memory.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

I'm not sure I remember the earlier, but there's one that I often quote. I wrote my first check when I was five at a restaurant. And I it it was it was interesting because I I remember the emotion that I felt when my uncle at the end of the meal that we had, we had just went him and I for lunch, and he asked when the check came and the waiter asked to pay. Um, my uncle said, my uncle said she'll she'll be paying, and he handed off uh his checkbook. And so I wrote with my write up of a five-year-old um the amount of that needed to be uh intuitive. So yeah, I remember that fondly.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Just getting you ready for your future career. So that's that's perfect, right? Here's uh technology one. What's the most used app on your phone, excluding WhatsApp or Outlook?

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

I'm visual person.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah, I've managed to keep away from that, but my wife tends to keep me informed of what I need to know on in that regard. So how about favorite movie of all time?

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Breakfast at Tiffany's.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah, absolutely. No, I I think that's that's a good one for many people's lists. Now here's a tricky one. You only get to listen to one song for the rest of your life. What is it?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Feel good by Gorillaz.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Be careful because if it it's gonna drive you mad, so I think that one that one's safe, right? Okay, I'm thinking of a number between one and a hundred, and it has a relevance to what we talked about today.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

I was going to say seven.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

What's the relevance to seven?

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Because in 2007 I went to Jordan.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Okay. Well, it was close, it was ten because it is now ten million passengers.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Oh, well.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

But uh only two people have got it right so far, and uh that's even quite exceptional. I wasn't I never expected anybody to get it right, but that was close, you were within three. That's that's perfect. So you talked about being a bit of a traveler. What's the favorite place you visited so far, and what's what's your top buck bucket list destination?

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Mexico City. I love the energy, the culture, the vibrance of this city. And I worked uh as a consultant for a few weeks in that project of the airport that unfortunately never opened, but I I still love very much that city.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

It's it's such a vibrant place and the food scene and and just it everybody thinks they know Mexico because of what they read on the or hear on the news, but Mexico City is something else, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:39

It is, and you know, it was surprising to me how many actually people speak French in Mexico City.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's very cosmopolitan, right? That's the whole point of these big cities. And what about the place you need to see?

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Good question. Uh Argentina. Because of the wine.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and the didn't they used to call it the Paris of the Americas, right? So you come by that honestly. That's that's perfect. Okay, this is the final stretch. Your personal mantra in 10 words or less.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Don't prioritize efficiency over effectiveness.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Sometimes we get a little bit obsessed with perfection too, right? Keep it simple and make it work. Well, uh Linda, it's been a it's been a pure joy doing this and brings back lots of great memories and makes me realize that we met some really good people along the way.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Yes, and I'm so glad we have been, you know, part of our lives over the years and really been able to be in touch. I think it shows how strong his project uh back in Quinalia was, how as humans we have been connecting through all the challenges, and it's it's worth it because today we we we are sharing such a such a good friendship. Um thank you for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I look forward to seeing you soon at a conference or whatever brings us together, and in the meantime, enjoy your your life in New York.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Thank you so much, and I hope to see you for celebrating the 25th anniversary of Terminal 4.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

I wouldn't miss it for the world.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Thanks for joining us on Open Mic. If today's conversation sparked ideas or questions, we'd love to hear from you. Visit airportIR.com forward slash open mic to listen to more episodes, connect with our team, and stay informed about the global aviation developments that matter to you.