Stroke Survivor Bootcamp with Dr. Phil: "An interview all about Dr. Phil"

In this episode of "Stroke Survivor Bootcamp", Dr. Philip Lamoreaux, OTD, OTR/L, CPT, is interviewed on the podcast "Death Taught Us How to Live", a stroke related podcast that shares helpful information for those effected by stroke.  In this episode of SSBC, Dr. Phil is being interviewed and shares the important story of how and why he became an occupational therapist, as well as his theory on why HIGT (High Intensity Gait Training) is so helpful in stroke recovery. 

NOTE: Be sure to check out some of the helpful worksheets that can be accessed by clicking here, or by going to www.StrokeSurvivorBootcamp.com.

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Hosted by Dr. Philip Lamoreaux, OTD, OTR/L, CPT, Stroke Survivor Bootcamp is a practical, hope-forward podcast for stroke survivors and caregivers, built to help you understand what’s happening, ask the right questions, and take back control one step at a time. Each episode blends real-world hospital and rehab guidance with clear, compassionate coaching so you can turn fear into a plan and progress into momentum.

For more information on signing up for a one-on-one Stroke Survivor Bootcamp session with Dr. Phil, just go to www.StrokeSurvivorBootcamp.com

Created & Produced by Christopher Ewing
Hang On to the Dream Foundation

Written by Dr. Philip Lamoreaux, OTD, OTR/L, CPT

Listen each week to the Stroke Survivor Bootcamp podcast with Dr. Phil, the OT Professor, where he will share with you practical tools, real stories, and the mindset to keep moving forward on your road to recovery! 

If you are a stroke survivor, sign up for one of Dr. Phil's Stroke Survivor Bootcamp sessions.  These sessions are proven to help stroke survivors regain more mobility following a stroke.  Just go to www.strokesurvivorbootcamp.com for more information.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:25

The comments expressed in this program are the personal opinions of the participants and not meant to diagnose or treat any medical condition that you may have. Please consult your doctor or healthcare professional before making any changes to your current medical routine.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

So if you haven't seen any of the episodes so far for season six, please go to our YouTube channel and check out more. We are broadcasting this on many other platforms as well. We have this on TikTok, we have this on Instagram, Facebook, as well as Stroke Warrior Radio. And without any further ado, we have a great show. And I've been talking to a lot of great guests over the past six weeks. And a lot of them have been talking about how to get better after a stroke. And today's not going to be any different, but we're not going to be talking to a stroke survivor this time. We're going into the medical side of things. We're getting some medical help. And I have a um an OT, the OT professor is going to be on speaking with us today. And I'm going to let him talk about why it is so important for him to actually help us out and what he's actually doing within our community to make our lives much better. So please, without any further ado, welcome to our stage. Our guest for today, Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil, where are you, sir? Are you here? Come to the front, sir. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

I'm here. I'm here. Good. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

I am great, sir. I am so honored to have you on our show. I really appreciate you taking your time to say, hey, I want to talk to the ABM superhero and his guests. Thank you, sir. Thank you. So can you give us a little background of who you are, what qualifies you to be talking to us today, and what you're trying to do for us as stroke survivors?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, um, my name is Phil Lamero. I'm an occupational therapist. I have been an occupational therapist for the last 10 and a half years. I spent the last uh eight and a half years uh devoting my time to uh learning how to help stroke survivors actually get back to living life. That is a huge part of my platform, is focusing on how do you get back to living life. And within that, uh, I actually uh started my career working in inpatient neuro rehab. And I got to learn how to do a lot of different things, work with a lot of really interesting uh individuals, but I keep coming back to uh individuals who've had uh any sort of brain injury. Um really stroke survivors have been uh really the main part that I have uh spent that time doing. I was the first occupational therapist to be trained in high-intensity gait training. And ever since then, um, I have been pushing, uh trying to help other therapists and survivors actually incorporate the things that we know now that are the most recent pieces of information to help uh stroke survivors actually regain mobility and to get more of their life back. And so that has been a big part of what I've done. And I've done that through um kind of trying to change the medical system a little bit. And the biggest part of how I've tried to do that is I do these what are called boot camps. And these boot camps, I've been doing them for uh over a year and a half, where I work with somebody for uh anywhere between three to five days, and I do high-intensity gate training with them. And I get more change in those three to five days than they've gotten in uh even up to a year of typical therapy because I utilize the most up-to-date information and knowledge that we have on uh what's called on what's called neuroplasticity.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Okay, Dr. Phil, you you caught my attention and that high-intensity gate training is on the top of my list right now. I'm really curious about this. But before we go any further, I just want to make sure that you guys know uh in the TikTok world, YouTube world, Facebook where we are, watching the messages come through. So please, if you have any questions for Dr. Phil, please put them there. And right now, so far, we have Phil in TikTok. He's saying hello to us. So hello, Phil. Oh, not Phil, Peter. Peter saying hello to us. Hey Peter. Dr. Phil, Peter saying hello. Um, um, what is that all about? You said you're getting more results from that than anybody else getting with regular occupational therapy, physical therapy. What is that? And can you break that down to us so we could have a better understanding how to get involved with that?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah. So when you go back to the 1940s, uh, there was a theory that was created by a therapist who basically uh said that as an individual who is trying to recover from a neurologic injury, what you need to do is you need to not use comp uh compensatory movement, so abnormal movement, and it needs to be slow, and you should only do things in a very methodical way. So only do it if it looks right. And that has infiltrated and been a part of every single aspect of our uh profession and not just occupational therapy, but physical therapy as well. And that didn't really get challenged until about 20 years after it was introduced. And the evidence that actually came out was that it wasn't very uh it wasn't actually very um beneficial. And in fact, it was the exact same as or worse as what we would call like typical traditional uh orthopedic, or like where you're you know uh working on the muscles and everything. It was, it was, it was the same or worse until somebody did uh actually challenge that with people who had been told that they had plateaued and that they weren't able to uh get any change and get better. And that led to where they actually started to increase somebody's heart rate by pushing their ability to walk. And there's so much more that goes into that. But basically, as they push their ability to walk, get their heart rate up to a certain level, the body creates a chemical that makes it so that the neurons are easier to talk to each other, makes it so that they can talk to each other, and then from there, the uh the brain is in a better setup and situation to actually make change. And so that's that's a very uh broad definition of it. And uh, but I did the 1940s approach and then changed to high-intensity gate training, and I have been able to see both sides, and the changes are incredibly different.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Okay, so how do someone like myself, a stroke survivor, get involved in your particular program? Because this sounds very interesting, and and I never heard of it. So, how can we get this out there so people can understand that this is available to them and can help them out with their recovery?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, so here's the thing: this is still, I mean, it's still relatively new and brand new in the in the research world. So typically it takes about 17 years for research to start getting used into everyday uh, even just to begin getting used into used into everyday uh therapy. And uh, I just wasn't gonna wait. And so the way that you can get involved in it is first and foremost, you can ask your therapist if they know about high-intensity gait training, not high-intensity interval training, but high-intensity gate training uh with uh that was researched by uh Jenny Moore and uh George Hornby and that group. And if they don't know, then you have a couple of options. And one is that you can come to me. So you can come to me um and I can either help guide and do some virtual sessions, or I can uh actually come to you and I do a boot camp with you uh for those three to five days, whatever we decide. And basically I introduce it to you, I help set it up so that you can actually move forward and do it uh on your own after I after we work together, and then we continue working even just as we go forward uh after the actual boot camp. So you can do that by messaging me on uh TikTok at the OT Professor or go to uh www.stroke survivorbootcamp.com and you can uh fill out a request form there and we can we can do that. I would say that the most important piece though is that you ask your therapist if they want to learn how to do this. Because if we can get more therapists involved, then it becomes much easier to get access to this amazing information. And I also train therapists on how to do this. I actually have uh a couple courses that uh they can get continuing education uh credits for that they have to get, anyways, and so they can come and learn how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Okay, cool. We have some questions coming in from I believe it's you two. Let's see if we could ask our producer to bring them up on the screen so you could actually answer that. Um, this is um Jocelyn, and she's asking him what about Botox? I'm not sure if you deal with that particular arena or not, or if this is part of that arena as well. Would you like to?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, so Botox is uh it's this is the way that I describe Botox is that uh if I have 10 survivors and all 10 get Botox, two of them are gonna say it changed their life. They're gonna say that they got more movement, they actually were able to move better. Um, and it just it made all the difference in the world. And then I'm gonna have six of those survivors that are going to say it did nothing for them. Like they don't really notice a difference. And then there's gonna be the two that say it actually made things worse. And so, really, when I, you know, it's it's interesting because Botox, Botox can be looked at as it's like you're looking for the you know, the thing that's gonna make the big difference or the big change. Um, there are not very many stroke survivors that I've worked with that Botox has actually made the big difference or the big change. Um, it doesn't mean it can't. Um, but Botox, it's it generally is um it's gonna be used as a way to decrease uh your muscles that are trying to uh contract, they're trying, they get too tight. And so it's gonna try and decrease that tightness, but the way that it does it actually kind of breaks down the muscles, and so it's it's something that uh it's a risk if you take it, if you get it. Um, the other thing is make sure that you use a therapist that is going to support and help confirm and make sure that the Botox is going in the right muscle, because I cannot tell you how many stroke survivors I've asked where they put the Botox in, and I just go, really? Like that that was not the right muscle. That's not even the one that's that needs the Botox if you need Botox. And so make sure that you do try to recruit a therapist to come in and confirm and make sure that it's the right muscles, or just ask a therapist which muscles Botox should be used in.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

All right, you you're bringing up a lot of things that um a lot of us survivors fear and get anxiety of it because we don't know what to trust or who to trust. Um, so that's another thing altogether, but I think that's taking us off comp uh off our context of what we're trying to get to. I'm more interested in this H I G T. Uh are you funded with the or connected with insurance companies, or is this completely out of pocket?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Uh, right now, this is completely out of pocket because I don't go the typical route of a uh your therapist because I actually travel across multiple states. Um, you know, last week, actually earlier this week, I was in Detroit, Michigan. Um, I'm gonna be going to Vermont. Uh I have one that I'm setting up in New York City, uh, and I'm from Utah. And you know, I have another one in Los Angeles that I'm that I'm looking into. So I mean, there's there's so many states, but really, you know, for me, um, you can't look at me as like it's gonna be like a typical traditional therapy experience, because first and foremost, it's not. Um second, it's going to it's going to be more of a let me show you what your capacity actually is. Because I mean, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole too much, but I'll just say this. As survivors, the way therapists actually look at you in general, is the first time they look at you, they go, Oh my gosh, like these you're so unsafe. They see the weaknesses, they see the the things that are gonna potentially be an uh a potential injury or something like that. When I see you and I work with you, it's the opposite. I see actually these are the things that are doing so awesome and you're doing so well with. Now let's actually maximize. And I want to show you what you're actually capable of that you don't have to fear. And then if there are some things that you need to improve, then we hit those things first and improve those pieces. And we do that because what we've done is we've increased the uh that that protein, that natural protein, it's called uh brain-derived neurotrophic factor or BDNF. We've raised that in your body because we've increased your heart rate and you've put in that effort to make that happen. And then from there, we start to really push what your body can do, because now your neurons, the pathways from your brain to your body are talking so much easier. And so it's it's different. And right now, because it is new, uh, newer, and because I I'm not your typical traditional, I'm just treating and working with people in my community, uh, insurance doesn't want to deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Fair enough. So who is a candidate for H I G T?

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, um, I think the best way to put it is who isn't a candidate, because that's a much smaller pool uh sample size. So if you happen to have heart issues, so let's say you have a hard time, your heart really struggles with pumping blood through through your body. Uh, there's there's a term that's called ejection fraction or fracture. And what you do with that is if it's below a 50, then we really have to do even a more in-depth screening with you to figure out if you are appropriate for that. And if it's below 40, then you really are not uh a candidate for that. And those are the biggest, that's like the biggest piece is that if your heart is the issue. Um, there are some other pieces like depression, actually. So if you are in severe depression, that's another piece that actually makes high intensity training hard. Because if you think about what high intensity training does, it puts you to it pushes you to this limit where your brain is going to yell at you and say, Oh my gosh, what you're doing is not good. Your brain is trying to protect you. But it actually is good, and I show you, show your brain that it is. But when you're dealing with depression as well, um, and we're talking like more severe depression, the instead of seeing the success, you actually see the negative, which actually doesn't it doesn't help you regain those connections. And so those are kind of the two biggest things. So if you have like if you've had like a heart a heart attack in the past, um, that's another piece. Um, if you have uh it's a little bit different too, if you have like a um a uh um, oh my goodness, how am I forgetting that name? Um but it they put it in your chest to make it so that if your heart def a defibrillator, basically you can put it into your uh so that if your if your heart rate goes too high, it lowers it. That ends up being a much more difficult one to deal with. It doesn't mean you can't, but it becomes a little bit more difficult. So if your heart is bad, like if you're if it's a bad heart, then high intensity is not where you should be going. Um, you should go more into moderate or lower intensity, but that also does limit the gains that you will get.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Is time a factor? And what I mean by time, like I've been out I'm eight years past stroke. So time is not a factor.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

The look at it this way the older you are, that is more of a factor. So if you, you know, if you're 80, 90 years old, I mean it's not that you can't get gains, but I mean, you totally can. I've worked with individuals who are 80, 90, and we've been able to get great gains. The difference is that your body itself, like the pathways themselves, they're just you know, you're older, the the the the cells have started to break down and they're not communicating as as as fluently as they used to. And so that's a that's a big issue, that's a that's a big piece. So the older you are, the less gains you end up getting, just in general. That's one of the principles of neuroplasticity. But if you're eight years out versus 20 years out, doesn't matter. Like I've I've worked with people who are you know eight and a half, 10, 10 years out, and I still am getting the same types of gains. I will say that if you're like within the first three months, you're definitely gonna get more gains because that's just the brain making natural connections back. So that's the best time. That is the absolute best time to do this. Uh, I started doing high-intensity gait training with somebody, of course, with the doctor's approval, um, four days, five days after symptoms.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Really?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Oh, yeah. I'm taking I took people who couldn't even move half of their body uh up a hundred and four up and down 114 stairs by myself.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Um, you just it it it's really crazy. But the the think about it like think about it like this your brain is built and designed to adapt. That is what it's designed to do, it's its job. However, it's always going to go the path of least resistance or the path of most efficiency. Right. And so if your environment is built to be low intensity, to not have the demand that typical environment demands, then the brain is going to say, that is the norm, that is where I want, that's where I want to be. Because I don't have to work for that. That's just the brain. Everybody's brain does that.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

But if you put the demand, and the demand is high, right off the bat, then the brain tries really quickly to figure out how to make that the efficient, the efficient pathway.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Okay, Dr. Phil. Um the reason why I'm going down these paths of questions, and I'm loving how you responded, it seems like this is kids, man. I I'm loving it. Because I get so many people ask me the question, you know, how long did it take you to walk? How long did it take? I'm like, I don't I can't answer. I don't have those type of answers. And then you said something to me that's very interesting. A lot of people that had a stroke two, three years, and they're falling into depression.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

So how do we deal with those people? Because you said they're not a candidate because they are depressed, but how do we find the proper therapy for them to understand that this could be a possible? Because hope for us is very scary. Oh, yes. And we don't know how to deal with that. And if things don't work out for us, we crash all over again. So, how do we deal with those types of individuals?

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Oh man, that's such a good question. So I just want to to clarify if you're if You are experiencing severe depression, it doesn't mean you don't qualify for high intensity. It just means that it's going to add a um more complexity to the experience and could potentially be a negative. And it depends on where you're currently at with that. Number one is that you you should go to your primary care physician and actually be open and honest about that and talk about how you're experiencing that depression. Part of that depression you have to understand could be chemical. It could be a chemical imbalance that's causing that. And so something like a medication can be very beneficial and help with that. I myself dealt with depression and I used, I used a um, I used medication for a while to help deal with the chemical imbalances there. There are some other different uh different types of interventions that are out there that can help target depression. Um TMS, uh transcranial magnetic stimulation is one that has uh really good evidence to support it. Um that does happen to be really expensive, though, which is really annoying, but that it but that is the case. And then um the other piece is that try to find ways to increase living. There's this thing that like really bothers me about the way that I did therapy for a while and the way that therapy is still done today. And it's that we prescribe you a home exercise program, right? We as therapists go, okay, here you go. This is home exercise program, this is what I want you to do. And it's usually lift weights, it's do this many reps, do this many things. And the problem is, is that although that might help, it doesn't actually address the issue. And the issue is more so, how well can I increase living? Because if as a survivor, if I can start getting into that mindset of how can I increase living today? And you know, I have somebody I'm working with, his name's Chuck, he's he's a stud. Um, but that's one of the things that we talked about. And so I ask him all the time, okay, what's the thing that you're adding this week to make it so that you are living more than you did last week? And you know, one of the things he said is I'm dusting the family room. Like great. That's that is something that is just typical living, right? Could be vacuuming, you know, and if you're not able to do that, it could be something like, hey, I want to sit up and be at the table for dinner instead of sitting in my lounge chair, which is easier and less difficult. I'm going to make sure that I go, you know, I want to go on a ride in the car today. I'm living. You know what? We're gonna go to the store, and even though today I don't want to, like you push yourself to try and live more. And as you do that, what will happen in general is that part of the equation of why depression hits stroke survivors so quickly and so badly, that starts to get answered and starts to get impacted in a positive way. But the biggest thing about that, and this is something that I mean, I don't need to go into it too much, but you need to learn, like all of us do in our own different ways. But as a stroke survivor, learn to embrace the suck. Learn to embrace the fact that trying to regain who you are and your identity again is going to require you doing these things in a way that it doesn't it didn't look like it did before, so that you can regain who you are. But you can't get there by waiting, it won't happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

I definitely get that. And I really appreciate you saying that to us because that is the major problem. We don't understand that life is going on and we need to be part of it. Uh, and a lot of times that is what is actually really holding us back from actually getting any gains because we don't believe that we can't get any games. I hear people say to me all the time that that person I used to be was a great person. I want to be that person. I'm like, okay, what about this person that you are right now? This person's a great person too. You just have to change your mindset and make this person great too. And I don't think people understand that. But before we go any further, we got some comments from TikTok World. We have um Terry, she says, Dr. Phil, I miss watching your boot camps online. So I guess you used to have boot camps online. Yes. You still do, or is it arc?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

I still do. I still do. I was supposed to have one this week, um, but the individual that I was working with ended up having a um ended up having some medical issues that prevented us from doing that. And so I I was so bummed because it's one of the coolest experiences I've ever been a part of. And that is where I do this, I I I live stream our sessions. So I live stream them on on um I live stream them on TikTok so anybody can watch what I do. And I just do it through the OT professor. And then what we do is you have you know 30, 40 stroke survivors that are on watching and cheering you on and pushing and seeing what you're doing and seeing how you're just you want to quit, but now you know that there are this, there's this, there's this this wave of people that are lifting you up. It's so cool. I just got chills thinking about it because it's one of the coolest things to be a part of, and man, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

It sounds amazing because I see a lot of people on TikTok referring me to you. I'm like, who's this guy? Who's this guy? And I and I'm starting to understand why you are so important to our community. I I do have a question for you, and the question is, why? Why do you want to help us out so much?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Oh man, you're gonna make me cry. Um, come on, brother, you gotta cry then. So I think one of the hardest things, um this this part being vulnerable and sharing, sharing the why. Um, you have to understand that I don't have family members, I don't know anybody personally that has I've grown up with that had a stroke. Um I I actually don't have any ties to anybody who's had a stroke. Um, but when I was 12, I had a I had a plan to not continue life anymore. And during that time, um that was really tough. And uh I've been to the very bottom of the bottom. And then I dealt with depression from the time I was 12 um all the way until I mean I'm 38, about to turn 39 next week. And I my uh I the first time I experienced life without that dark cloud that was hanging over me was about a year and a half to two years ago. And um I actually did a TMS, so trans uh transcranial magnetic simulation, and that was a huge, huge benefit to me. But the thing that pushed me is that as I worked with stroke survivors and I would share the feelings that I had that were the same feelings with me being in this place where I didn't want to live anymore. Um and and then the struggle of every day showing up without seeing a light anywhere and just searching for that one thing, that one thing that's gonna make it so that I can feel joy again, and that I can live the way that I want to. That one thing and not coming, and not coming again and again and again and again, day in and day out, year after year. And then I started to get into this mindset of allowing yourself to surrender and to submit to the you know the anger and the frustration and the pieces where I felt like I had lost my entire childhood and growing up and teen years and early marriage years, and I had lost all that because I couldn't have the same joy that everybody else had because I couldn't feel it. And then as I shared that with stroke survivors, and I just would say, This is this is what you gotta do, it would it would hit really hard to them. And I started to realize very quickly that even though I haven't experienced a stroke, I for some reason was given an experience that helped me be able to put myself in your shoes emotionally to a certain degree, um, and to know what it's like to show up every day and to have it slap you in the face that you can't be the same person that you were. And so as I've done that, um the thing is that I don't want stroke survivors to have to experience what it is that I experienced and what they do experience. And I believe the stroke survivors out of all the different diagnoses that are out there are the is the diagnosis that are the are the forgotten group. I I think that the the strategy is, you know, hey, we're just gonna wait and see what your brain brings back, and then honestly, we're just gonna hope and pray that something else comes back in time as you just keep trying. And that is therapy now. And there is like that, that just brings so much depression and frustration. And I just I I just have you know, I I I did a I did a thing where I I was looking at what my values were and my number three top value was justice and protecting those who can't protect themselves. And that just I I was so surprised because that was not what I thought was gonna be in my top three. And so it came to be this this thing where I just like I I found my people. I I um I found people who can understand what it is that I went through emotionally, even though we didn't go through we're not going through the same things. And um, I just love I I don't know how to say it, but I just I just love the stroke community. They are powerful, powerful people that have not been given a voice. And it makes me so frustrated, and which is one of the things I admire about what you're doing, and and you know, I love Death Taught Us How to Live because I mean it in some ways I interpret that a stroke is one of the best ways to open up your mind to see what living actually is.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Dr. Phil, I'm sorry that you started at the cry, but um out of all my years of doing, I've been doing this for six years, I don't think I ever got an answer like that. And I'm being very serious about it. I can see why people are gravitating to you, and I really appreciate your vulnerability. Um that's all we're looking for. We want people to understand us, we want people to listen to us. Um, I'm not sure about what you're coming with because a lot of information you have is way over my head. You're more educated in the field of occupational therapy than I am, but the way that I work with people is if I could trust them. And the only thing I could trust them is them being vulnerable and telling me exactly how they feel. And by you just doing that, I know it's hard for you, but it's a relief for us because it's like we always feel like we're not heard, we feel like we talk to people that's emotionally unintelligent, and they rather just look at us as a number instead of a person. So when we can see you as a medical professional, as a person, that does a lot for us, brother. I really appreciate you doing that.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Thanks. I like I said, I I I was on, I was, I did a live last uh two nights ago, and I was just on and and it just I was feeling I was feeling you know the struggle of you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to do something unique and different that hasn't been done before. And you know, it feels lonely. And because I don't have anybody to look to, I don't have anybody who's gone before me and has the you know has a uh uh outline of how this is supposed to be done. Don't have it. And it gets really lonely. And I found myself on that live, you know, and it's funny because I kind of reject when I get into those moments, I want to like just hide. That's always been my my response. But I got on a live and man, I just it just I can't tell you how many stroke survivors were on, and just I I feel I feel safe. And there's not very many places in this world that I feel I I feel safe. Well it's so awesome.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Well, we got people on TikTok is actually saying the same thing that you're saying right now. We have Victoria saying, amen, just someone that understands us. Um, Terry saying it is very lonely, and they all appreciate you actually saying what you're saying because this is exactly how they feel. And you you and you said it earlier. You know, you gave Botox, maybe getting in the wrong place. Like, why do we have to check with the professional that's giving us Botox if they put it in the right place or not? Like, we got too much to even think about. We want you guys to just take care of the issue and go. Now, if you're opening up to us and we understand that you are feeling our pain too, that goes a lot to our psyche. Not even the physical part, that's just our psyche, our mental state. And by you doing this, and I know you said it's hard for you to do, but I'm very appreciative, and you need to understand, even for me, I I've been through depression. I used to smoke cigars, um, addicted to all different types of stuff, even after my stroke, and I had nowhere to go. And community was what helped me get where I am today, but I never had a medical professional break down the way you just broke down. So I think a lot of first ideas I need you to understand how important that is, even for me, nine years out. Like you get it.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah, brother.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Man, that was deep.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Bravo to you. Thank you. It's one of those, I think I think as as we learn our identity, and I you know that's one of the hardest parts is learning to learning to trust those little pieces about you, yeah, those little moments, those little things that make you unique, and owning it. And so, you know what? I'm a crier. I I I I'm very self-reflective, and it's one of my superpowers. But it is hard to be to let it out because it it puts people in uncomfortable positions, but for some reason, stroke survivors, you don't you don't you don't get into those come uncomfortable positions because it's almost like you are so starving for for somebody to just open up this world of like, oh my gosh, like yes, like I can have emotion.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Dr. Phil, uh, I don't you really yeah, you open up a I didn't expect this. I'm telling you, I did not expect everybody, I didn't expect this type of interview. But Dr. Phil, you're opening up a Pandora's box right now because this is exactly what we are looking for. We want compassion. We want you to not take your path and bring it to this particular situation right now. We want you to be open. Yep. Us to be open because that's we're we're very blunt. We have no filter. We just want to be able to be who we want to be without anybody looking down at us. So you you're right. You found the right people. And I know I always told us people that had near-deaf experiences. Well, you're the first person that hasn't had a near-deaf experience that thinks that way. Like we think we're totally different than normal people. We call them normies. People that didn't have a stroke, we call them normies. And we are somewhat different. I don't know what we are, but we're something different because we don't think the same way that normies think. But the way you just broke that family, we might be fucking that big happened.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

For more information or to sign up for a boot camp, just go to stroke survivorbootcamp.com. I'm Dr. Phil, and I'll have more right after. Hey, this is Dr. Phil. If you're a Stroke Survivor and you want to regain motor function, improve mobility, and build real confidence in your recovery, then I want you to check out one of my Stroke Survivor Bootcamp training sessions. These are intensive, hands-on experiences designed to push performance, improve function, and help you get back to doing more of what matters in your life. Go to www.stroke survivorbootcamp.com and let's get you back on track one step at a time.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I just want to make sure that we don't ignore them. We have Terry again. She says, I live my life through I look at uh my pictures on TikTok. So I guess she gives that as a uh a journal to see how fresh. Um Victoria is saying exactly, and she's also saying our tribe is solid. So, you know, people are really gravitating to this particular type of information. So now, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know how how you're gonna look at it, Dr. Phil. You have a responsibility to us now. Yeah, you really do because you put yourself out there. Now we trust you. What does that do for you? Does that give you purpose? That gives you drive, that gives you more ways to educate yourself so you can help up more of us.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Um I think the biggest thing that it does um is, I mean, I I I see the gravity of it. I see I see how big it actually is and how big it can be. Um it it it does. I mean it's it to me it feels an awful lot like um how do I I I don't even know how to answer that question. Because like you know, dealing with depression, it's you know, throughout my life, it's been one of those pieces that it's easy to just tear myself down and to not see what I'm capable of. And um you know, in in this group, you know, with with survivors, like they they they get it and they see it. And I think the hardest part for me is trying to answer the question, how do I get this to everybody? I I think that's the the gravity of it all. Like I am more than happy to spend all of my time, like I I give so much of my time to just everybody, and I and they give their time to me. It's it's it you know, as as I reciprocate, they reciproc reciprocate it back. It's it's amazing. And but this group, this uh the you know, group of group of uh individuals, you know, who've experienced one of the suckiest things that you could ever experience, they they keep showing me the power that they have and the power that other people just push aside and just ignore. Like Uh Peter sent me a text today and he said um that he was able to hold a bag of peanuts for the first time. And he's two and a half years out, almost three. And like that just gives me even more fuel. Or like what I'm doing is is right. What I'm doing is what has to happen, because if I don't, it won't happen. I actually firmly believe that. Because I think that I was given a particular experience that makes it so that this is this is my responsibility. And you know, the more that I keep stepping through that door that keeps opening up, even though it's terrifying, the more uh other doors open. And I believe that ultimately, like, this is just the beginning of what is gonna be capable, what we're all gonna be capable of showing and doing, and the things that are gonna happen. And um, I just there's there's lots of little things that I have that are in the like on the back back burner of how I'm gonna do this. Uh, I just put together a boot camp where I had two therapists and three survivors, and I trained the therapists who are full-blown therapists, how to do high-intensity gate training. And they and we did a boot camp with three survivors. I have a couple of things that are coming up. Uh, my goal is one in Los Angeles, uh, one in Houston, one in Jacksonville, Florida, and another right now it's looking like Pennsylvania, um, where I am looking to get 15 clinicians and five survivors. And the 15 clinicians are there to learn how to implement high-intensity gait training. The clinicians are paying for CEUs for continuing education units. The survivors, I do believe that no matter what, anybody who wants to get changed, there needs to be a sacrifice. And that oftentimes is money for you survivors. That is a massive sacrifice, but it is not fair and it is not right to have to charge so much for out of pocket. And so, what I do is I basically say, for something like that boot camp, if you can come up with 200, 250 bucks, then you get three days of all day therapy. I mean, it's it's insane because this the therapists are paying for me to be there. And then you get actual therapists who are just learning how to implement a new intervention. It's not like they're students who have no experience. No, they are legit clinicians who have years of experience and they just want to learn how to do what I do. And so it's an opportunity for survivors to actually get this without having to pay as much. So if you as a survivor want me to come and in order to decrease that cost, well, reach out to your therapist and say, Hey, I want you to come on this journey with me. I need I need you to come on this journey with me. And if you do this, you can get continuing education units. Okay, if you get that, then for me, that's not gonna cost me very much. And then that decreases the out-of-pocket because I have a number, this is what it costs for me to get out there. And the biggest thing really is that it has to be um, you know, I I just have to look at it and go, I mean, it's it has to at least make it so that I can provide for my family. You know, and I do lots of other things on the side. I teach at UNLV in their doctoral program. I um I'm an expert witness on personal injury cases. And you know, I so I do all these other things to make it so that I can do this, but everything that I am doing right now is designed about designed towards creating a situation where survivors shouldn't have to pay very much to actually get what this is. Because the biggest thing that survivors should be paying for, like every single consumer in the world, you should be paying for results. It shouldn't be I show up and I'm here and I'm just doing and I'm just doing my I'm doing my 10 reps and then you move on to something else. No, like I should be expecting results.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Okay, okay, Dr. Phil. Okay, Dr. Phil. Before you get to that particular realm, I want to draw you back because you're trying to run away.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

I know, I just have so many things. Oh, I saw you, I saw you. My brain goes everywhere, and that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a chance to actually let that brain go wherever it needs to go, but we we're getting closer to the time to close down. But I want to put something out there that you have done. And and I don't like I said, I don't know if you really realize this or not, but a lot of us don't realize that by us showing up helps us with our recovery. So you you're you said that, you know, it helped you with your depression. You found people that understand you. So by us hearing that from you, that gives us a chance to get up and do more for ourselves to get to the next part of our our lives. Right. So I pre- I really appreciate you coming on and speaking about that. But I'm gonna let you close out the show. But before we close out the show, I want to do my hot seat questions. This is where I ask my guest four questions about anything particular that deals with the conversation that we've dealing with already. And then after that, we will close out the show with you saying who you are, where they can find you, and also talk about these little boot camps that you have as well. But when you are finished with each and every response, let's keep them quick because I want to make them into reels. Just say AVM superhero, I'm ready for my next question.

unknown 51:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

So are you ready, Dr. Phil, for your hot seat questions and me on our hot seat?

SPEAKER_00 51:32

I am ready.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Okay, sir. Let's get to it. Question number one on the screen drum roll, please. What is a hidden daily hurdle survivors face at home?

SPEAKER_00 51:46

The hidden hurdle is that there isn't enough demand to make change actually happen. And because of that, it's a false perspective that you can't change. I'm ready for my next question.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

He didn't say my name, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

A VM superhero. I'm ready for my next question.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

It's okay, it's okay. We tweet we did a lot of emotional work this show, so uh I can let that slide. Question number two. Question number two goes as follows How does therapy help a survivor find himself again?

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Therapy can you say that question one more time? Therapy, how does therapy help a survivor find themselves again? That's the question, I believe. Oh, it's right there. I done. So therapy, it depends on what the therapy is. But if the therapy is actually getting you to perform and to participate and to increase the demand, then what happens is you have to come to grips with experiencing what it is that you have to do and how it looks now. And as you go through that and do it again and again and again and again, you finally become you. But if you're unwilling to do that, then you won't actually become you again. You'll stay looking at the past and instead what you should do is actually start living in the moment so that the future can actually happen. AVM superhero, I'm ready for my next question.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Yes, sir. And you will get it. Question number three goes as follows. Um, how do you balance brain recovery with severe fatigue? Ooh, I'm curious about this one.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I have kind of an unpopular position on fatigue. I think that fatigue is, I but I do believe it's real. I believe that it's a part of the process. However, I believe that in general, therapists and the way that we started training you from the beginning is that we have put you focusing so heavily on fatigue. For example, if I'm working with you and I say, How are you feeling? Are you feeling fatigued? How's the fatigue? How are you feeling? Are you tired right now? And if I keep doing that, guess what? You're gonna start noticing more and more. You're more tired, you have more fatigue. And so I think that oftentimes fatigue, just like if I'm really tired and if I'm struggling, the more I talk about it, the more fatigue I'm going to feel. Right now, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, but I am I feel alive because I'm doing something I'm that is making it so that I am living. So if you start putting yourself into moments where you can live more, you will find that that fatigue that you had that was preventing you from doing something actually starts to go away. You still will feel fatigue maybe after, but you are gonna feel fatigue after regardless. And so the more you live, the less fatigue actually plays a role in your outcome. AVM superhero, I'm ready for my next question.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

And this is your final question. So, everybody out there, thank you so much for coming on to our show and talking with us, you know, people that gave us questions, gave us comments. I really appreciate you guys. Dr. Phil, I was not expecting this at all. You really shocked me, and I I really love this shock, Dan. It's hard to surprise me, but you you did you did the job tonight. I really appreciate you, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart what you do for us as stroke survivors and everybody else in the brain trauma community. So here's your final question, sir. When does too much caregiver help show slow down recovery?

SPEAKER_00 55:46

I'm gonna go back to the framework that I used before with the demand on your environment. Most of the time, caregiver, or I'm gonna use the word care partners, it's usually done out of love and it's done out of like, I want to help. The problem is that if you do it every single time you do it for somebody, you remove an opportunity for somebody to actually increase their ability to become. So it becomes a dance. It's am I doing too much to prevent you from actually getting to do this on your own? Or am I actually making it so that you can do more, and therefore you have to rise up to the occasion and end up taking more ownership of your life and what it is that you want to do, and therefore making it easier for me as your care partner. It's a really interesting dance, but usually every in fact, I'll just say this every single time I've ever seen a care partner with somebody, they usually are doing too much. And that has to do with the fact that survivors don't actually see what they're actually capable of. And so part of it is you need to actually see what your loved one is capable of, and that way you can actually step away. Maybe I'm superhero, I'm done with the questions and ready for the next stage.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Well, there's no more stages for me. You call up the social show, and this is all on you. Whatever you want to say to the audience, it's your show.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Great. Well, first and foremost, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for letting me be on this and to have this opportunity to share my experience, share my story, share what I love. Because what I love is seeing somebody actually push and find out that they are capable of more than what they thought they could do. In fact, Danielle, who I was working with in Detroit, the final day, I I took her and I I put my, you know, I held her hands and I said, okay, stand. She was like, What? Why? Like, no, no, and she was so nervous. And I just said, just trust me. Stand. And then she did, and I was like, all right, let's go. And she started to walk. And that was the longest she had walked without using a walker in two years. And it's so amazing to me when I show people what they're actually capable of instead of looking at you as somebody that has a stroke or has these deficits or these impairments, and actually see you as the power that you are. The one thing I want stroke survivors to remember from this entire episode is that you have power. You are not an individual who is weak, and you are not an individual who can't improve or adapt. Every single one of you can. Is it gonna suck? Yes. Is it gonna be ridiculously hard? Yes. Is it gonna be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life? Yes. But do you know what happens on the other side of all of that? You become somebody that you didn't even know could exist, and you gain greater happiness than what you thought was ever possible. But you have to learn to love the suckiness of living and learning to live and to gain more by adding more demand onto your everyday life. You have to do that, and you have to do it day in and day out. And some days you're gonna be amazing, and some days you're gonna wanna stop. But you won't. Because the stroke didn't stop you the first time. So there's no no reason for you to stop now. And honestly, joy is joy is possible in the crappiness. So if you have any, if you want to experience that, reach out to me at the OT Professor on TikTok or go to Strokesurvivorbootcamp.com and you can fill out a request form. And I would be more than happy to even just start this journey with you through a phone call. And we'll see what we can do to help you get to where you want to be and to see what your actual capacity is. Just remember, probably 99 out of 100 individuals that I see are performing well below what they're capable of. And that one person, the reason why they're not, happens to usually be because there's something medically going on that just needs more attention. And those are some of the things that I love to do. And thank you guys for being on here. Thank you for watching. Thank you for sticking around for this conversation. I am this has been one of the best conversations I've been on, and one of the best uh lives that I've been on. And I just, AVM superhero, you you're a good man. And I seriously, seriously have appreciated this opportunity to be here and to be able to share what it is that that I'm trying to bring out to the world because it's coming. It's just gonna depend on when it gets there. And you know, I'm just letting my high power be the one that is making that happen. And that's that's everything for the show and all that I have to say. I'm Dr. Phil, and this is Stroke Survivor Bootcamp.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

Breathe in. Count it out. Every scar is around.