Duty Vs Family: The Mission And The Dinner Table

The radio never stops, the work feels urgent, and you can always find one more “good reason” to stay late. Then you walk in the door and realize your kids have grown another inch without you, your wife is carrying stress you can’t see, and the job that feels like a mission is quietly becoming a wedge. We sit down as men in demanding callings and name the tension for what it is: duty vs family is real, and it can cost you everything if you don’t fight for balance.

We talk through what makes this so hard for first responders and anyone in high responsibility work: shift work, the always present emergency, loyalty to the team, and much more. We share how we justified overtime, how “good motives” can still harm a marriage, and why nobody replaces you at home even when your position gets filled the moment you leave. We also dig into practical work-life balance that actually holds up under pressure: learning to say no, stepping back from extra roles, being fully present when you’re home, and inviting your spouse into decisions that will reshape your calendar.

The conversation goes deeper into identity and leadership at home, including the spiritual side we usually avoid. We wrestle with communication in a trauma-heavy job; how much to share without dumping stress on your wife, and why it can feel easier to be brave on duty than to truly lead your family. Along the way, we hit the “big rocks” that keep life from falling apart: time with God, sleep, rest, and the daily discipline of putting your family first without neglecting your responsibility to do your job professionally, as the citizens deserve.

If you’re a cop, firefighter, medic, or military member trying to protect both your community and your marriage, this one is for you. Subscribe, share it with someone who might need it, and leave a review so guys can find it.

Transcript

Warm-Up And The Real Topic

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Gentlemen ready. Getting ready to start a workout. I'm never ready.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

Coach always asks, Are you ready? I'm like, no, I'm not ready, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Alrighty, we'll jump right in.

Why Duty Feels More Urgent

SPEAKER_00 0:25

So a topic that we're all a little uh hesitant to dive into. Um duty versus family.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Big big conversation. It feels like a versus. I don't know. Like some of the others are like the verses. Yeah, that's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Um, sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, I even thought of that as like should this be duty and family, but no, it it usually feels like duty versus family. Um, I know for first responders, the tension is very real, very obvious. We deal with it all the time. Have dealt with it for years. Um you know what the wife sounds like when she's a little upset at you for working over too l too long. Um yeah, so I mean, but it is a very it is a very real tension, though. We've got you know, maybe not every job, um, but certainly, you know, I think a police fire military. If you don't show up at work, like maybe not just you, but if all the police didn't show up one day, somebody's probably gonna die. Like and there's and you feel loyalty to your brothers, you feel loyalty to you know, your bosses, and when there's extra responsibilities, you wanna, you know, help out and pick them up and like and then you've got this wife and kids sitting at home, and you know, I think of like my little kids, um, you know, they'll occasionally tell people like, you know, daddy always daddy sleeps all the time. And I I remind my wife I get the least amount of sleep in the entire house, but I sleep during the daylight hours, and so my pre my kids, you know, perceive that differently than I do. Daddy sleeps a lot. It's like well, daddy's always tired, but I do sleep some. Um they're just different hours than yours. Um what are some of these like deep tensions that we face between like our work responsibilities or like maybe yeah, like our work responsibilities and our family responsibilities, like you know, we we miss sports events, right? Like I know my wife, like she'll tell me things and I I perceive things differently than her, right? Or a little different, right? Women and men. And you know, I rarely get the opportunity to go to church. Um I try to do the evening stuff whenever possible. I I'd I'd like cherish my time there, but at least for me, like the way that my sleep schedule is, I've tried. If I wake up, essentially it would be like the normal person waking up at 3 a.m. and taking a shower and just acting like you're wide awake. And like it's like a two-day, full day, like two full day recovery, like 48 hours till I'm back on my like normal sleep cycle, and it's just a struggle. And she talks about like how weird it is for her. She says, like, but I wouldn't perceive it like this, to like make excuses for me why I'm not there. And it's like, man, I don't think about those things, right? Like a lot of times, um, yeah, we don't, it's hard for us to perceive the way that maybe our kids and our wife would interpret our vocation or maybe the time that we're away, because to us, right, there's always a radio call coming out. Like there's always a you know, there's always a purpose to why we're there. I'm not saying that we always feel like we're making a difference because we don't, but like it's very easy to go, all right, here's some real, like tangible needs. Here's a domestic, here's a car crash, here's this, here's that. And like when we're like our house isn't gonna burn down if we're at work, generally speaking. Like nobody's gonna die. And so I think it's easy for us to like maybe maybe the work stuff is easy for us to get caught up in and feel there's like a real need to be there, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

I don't know if that um do you feel like then you're putting your work first?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Yeah. Doesn't the work feel more urgent in the moment? I think that's what I'm struggling with a lot of times is like the tyranny of the urgent, whatever's right in front of me that's gotta come next. And it's like those other things can wait. My wife can wait, you know, but this this issue is like now. Yeah, can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Um when when was the first time on the job? Do you have that moment where you realize like this is this is a competition here? There's there's there's this tension here. Do you have a story there with that first time?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Day one. I mean, I I know like in my career. And I mean, I man, there's areas I've improved in this, but if my wife was sitting next to me, she'd she'd tell me, you know, she'd very uh readily tell you all the areas I still struggle in this area. I I'd say probably my first like three years, four, five years, maybe even five years. Like it was just assumed that like I'm gonna work over an hour. So like we're on we we still do uh eight-hour shifts. We've changed around a tiny, tiny bit over the years, but um, I know a lot of guys are doing 12s or 10s now, but so we do eights. Um yeah, I mean, my wife learned real quick, like like you don't need to call me and ask me where I'm at. Like, I'm busy. You don't need to text me, like, I'll be home when I get home. And I always found yeah, I always found a reason to work over whatever that looked like. Um, you know, in hindsight, a lot of that time was donated to the department, like wasn't accounted for.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Um yeah, what I think working over, it's so easy to justify. Like in the beginning, I would I would just justify it to myself in my own head. You'd be like, Well, this is a really bad dude, right? And we're working hard to go find this person. So like I'm doing the community a favor, I'm doing my wife and my kids a favor by staying over so that way we can put this person behind bars, and then they won't negatively impact my family or the community. Now that I've understood the justice system a little more, right? Like the dude's gonna get back out, and the same things are gonna take place again, and if he gets put away, somebody else is just gonna take his place. Now there needs to be somebody to do this job and to put those people in jail or keep them accountable, but like you're not saving the world. Sorry, you're not saving the world by giving all of your extra time towards these things. Once you're done, somebody else is gonna pick up the slack and keep working. But it was so easy for me to justify it. Like every case I could justify.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah. Like I like for me, those first five years were spent heavily like enforcing drug laws. And like, you know, the common person thinks like, hey, they don't realize what the drug problem looks like. Um you know, just as like a brief over like we could go out and stop, you know, if we stop ten cars in a night, like those out of out of those ten cars, we're getting methamphetamine out of one of them. Like, um, but yeah, as a young officer is like, oh, we're doing we're do we're like we're getting drugs off the street. And then it's like you said, okay, you get the main supplier in that neck of the woods, that neighborhood, they go to jail, and two weeks later another one pops up. Like, it's not to say that we're not doing anything, but like that's certainly particularly like with the drug stuff, but that's certainly an area where it's like, all right, I see this child at home who just wants like time with daddy, and here's this you know, let's just say, even like a user, like M D you're taking five hours to work that case. A lot of times they're bonded out by the time you even get done with your paperwork. And again, like we s we, you know, we still heavily enforce laws and and drug laws, right? Like, that's it's a big part of our job. Um, but it does start to paint a little bit of a different picture of like what if I'm intentionally working over like every day, that's a problem. Like, and and I would say, you know, those first five years I didn't have kids. That made a little bit of a difference, but like I probably had no idea like maybe the impact that's making on my wife of like, oh, this job comes before me, and it's always going to. And like these things must be more important than me. Like, I just have to assume in hindsight that those thoughts were there. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

I don't have to assume that those thoughts were there. I've had to have the counseling conversations about those thoughts, bro.

When Work Quietly Hurts Marriage

SPEAKER_04 10:13

And I'm not a cop, but I feel like this is an issue I can relate with you guys on because um as a farmer, there's those times of the year where it's urgent and it's pressing and it's go time. And then um the irony of it um is the very first year we got married, it was the driest spring. We got married actually 14 years ago this week, and we just went over off to the races, and so I did what I had always done, and I was just ignorant and oblivious, you know, and I was you know, working hundred-plus hour weeks, six days, you know, and then this we always had Sunday off, so I'd be be with her Sunday. That's enough. That's what I that's all I'd never known. And then she, of course, being the newlywed wife, wasn't gonna express what she had gotten herself into, and like, oh my gosh, like I he's gone when I wake up in the morning, he's gone when I go to bed at night. And is this like is this my life, you know? And so I was doing damage in my marriage and I didn't realize it. And uh, I thought I was doing it for good reasons, you know, because I work with my family. So this tension for me, I can relate with you guys, you know, you work with these these brothers in arms, and um like I work with my literal brother, my biological brother. And so I feel like what's my choice here? I either have to let this family down or that family down. How do you how do you balance those things? And so, man, it's been a learning curve for me, and I'm still like growing in this area so much, but I've been the biggest struggle in my marriage to date.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

I feel like as men we're we're so like problem driven. Like there's a problem, I'm gonna go fix that problem. Hey, I did good. Yeah. Right. Whereas women aren't that way. So there's like this really there's this big struggle between men and women on that, right? Like they need that that connection, and and we want that connection. We're like, I gave it to you because I provided to you.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Right. But they need more than that.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Working on it.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

I think that's like when we neglect our family, we justify it for a good reason. Like we don't neglect out of a wrong reason, we neglect out of what we label as a right reason.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

And that's never the the tension is not between good and bad, the tension is between good and best, and um trying to learn that and grow in that.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Um, that might kind of bring us into like what like if we had to like categorize these two worlds, like vocation and family.

Calling Versus Covenant At Home

SPEAKER_00 12:44

At the end of the day, like one of them you could say is like a commitment or even like a calling. But on the other hand, like it's a it's a legit like covenant. Like a lot of times, especially in American marriages, like we don't go back and remember that covenant. Like those words that we said at an altar, like 14 years ago, like he said, it's a long time ago. We committed to the Lord in this marriage, and like so I think it's important to realize like one is a calling, one is a covenant. I remember one time I stand in line, um, some type of event, and uh one of our judges happened to be standing behind me, and he's just like, he's like, Matt, you uh it's like you still like the cop thing. I was like, Yeah. He's like, well, if you ever, you know, do something else, it'd be all right. Somebody will fill your spot. And I remember as a younger guy, I was like, kind of sound like a like a dick move. I was like, hey, like, um, you know, you're like, oh, I can no, I gotta do this job. Like, it's like, no, at the end of the day, every single officer, right? Like, they're gonna get a little retirement party. They're usually, I mean, I you just see them from the outside, and you're like, bro, that looks super lame. You get like a little lunch. Is that what you want? Like a little lunch and a 10 by 10 plaque.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Snap on the back, yeah. Thanks for your service. There's the door.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, yeah. Like, at the end of the day, someone is going to replace you, me, all of us in this vocation. Like, doesn't matter what positions and responsibilities you have, nobody's gonna replace us at home. Like, nobody can be daddy for our children. Nobody's gonna be, well, you if you really keep screwing up, somebody might be husband for your wife.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Which one of the best lines ever, my dad told me I was going through all my life insurance. If I get killed on duty, I'm like, man, my wife's gonna end up, you know, all this money. And he's like, That's really cool, Derek. And her next husband's really gonna enjoy that. And I was like, ah, yeah, you got me.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yep. These kids, man, and wives, like we we have a covenant relationship with them. Like, we have this great, like, we don't I don't want to diminish our responsibility as you know, police officers, fire guys, like medics. But it is easy, easy to forget of like what we have sitting at home and then trying to balance those things. Um, I just think it's you like even like some of the scripture stuff, just like a couple verses that come to mind to like emphasize the idea of this covenant.

Scripture That Reorders Priorities

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Back to Genesis, like, right, Adam and Eve are created, and it says like a man will will leave his father and mother, and he and this wife will be united as one. I wish it I wish that was like something I don't know that that uh I've always like kind of joked over the years of like I wish that united as one came a lot easier than it does, right? Taking two separate people and sticking them together and still two separate people, and uh yeah, I mean marriage is marriage takes a lot of work. Joke with like the guys who are engaged, and it's like it's all hunky dory now, but like it'll be a whole nother vocation, like you have to work at it. Marriage takes so much effort. Um but yeah, two united as one. You know, there's other verses like this is like a challenging one, first Timothy. Um we'll kind of pause here for a second and give some context to this. Like any one of us could like open up, particularly the New Testament, and we could get a very, very quick, clear, convicting reason why we should be out helping people all the time, right? The widows and the orphans and helping the poor and helping the sick and helping the lame, like these would all be verbiage that is in scripture, particularly in the New Testament. And like it's easy, like we we can immediately correlate, right? Just like in the last 72 hours of work, right? You could come up with ten different faces of ways that you're helping those kind of people, the least, the last, the lost, the outcast of society. But then like first Timothy, man, I'll just read it here. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he is denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. It's first Timothy five eight. What? Like it's e scripture, it's easy to paint that picture. We gotta help everyone. We gotta help everyone else. But man, that verse is challenging. Like it would be wor it would be better to be an unbeliever than to not nurture and help out our immediate family. Like, that's so convicting. Um kind of just punches you in the face. Thoughts on that verse.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah, I'm glad you said that because it's so easy to get caught up in I'm providing, I'm going to work, right? I'm doing these things. This is, you know, it's easy for me to say this. I'm failing at this also. But my wife, my kids, like they need me on an emotional level. Like part of being a man is being there for them in that way also, being a good example and a good leader. Not just a provider from a financial sense or um you know, an example of a hard worker. Like there's more to it than just going to work every day and bringing home a paycheck.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

But it's an easy excuse that we make. It's just the bills.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

It's very easy.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah. Worse than an unbeliever. I mean, that's convicting, bro. Like worse than an unbeliever. And he's saying this, Paul writing Timothy saying, you know, a couple chapters earlier in chapter three is like if a man can't look after his own household, like how can he be an overseer in the church? How can you do anything if you can't take care of your own household? Like it starts in your home. It doesn't start outside the home, it starts in the home. And so, like, to be disqualified at home disqualifies you from everything. Leadership in the church, leadership in the job, leadership in the community.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

So being vulnerable, right? Like we all I think collectively say we fail at this a lot, right? Probably more often than not.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah.

Learning To Say No

SPEAKER_03 20:20

So how do we change that? Like what parts of our job do we need to change or our day-to-day life do we change to kind of facilitate that?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah, so I mean, there's obviously different, you know, I think men, you know, particularly obviously we've got a lot of experience like with officers and you know, police agency, like there's different categories of guys, but like we're all three guys that we're always gonna take on more responsibility. Like we're always gonna do more because we and we try to justify it. I think one thing, I don't know, just like thinking through this idea in my career, like early on, I would I would not I would not say no to anything. Um you know, I got to the point where um you know it was a canine handler, as an instructor in a couple different disciplines, was like I said, working, you know, dope cases, interdiction, like almost every shift. Um, and if like something, you know, if there was an email that got sent out, or there was, you know, if I figured out there was a type of need, like my first area of growth, which wasn't much, was like, all right, I'll wait, I'll wait a few days to see if anybody else accepts that responsibility. And then it's like, all right, well, nobody did it. I know I'm capable of doing it. All right, hey, I can take care of that. And it was just like another thing on my plate. Um, I mean, it was years. Like, I I remember the first time I let one of those instructor certs lapse, like intentionally. It was like my first probably real time of like saying no or saying like. Not you know, I can't do this anymore. And like that was hard. Um that's probably like my I don't know, that's just probably one thing is starting to say no, and I you know I gained more things down the road in my career that helped me a little bit in this area, it's obviously still a really big struggle. Um but realizing like like just say this on the out on the out from the outset, like you know, the three of us, like we said, we're always gonna take on more things. This is a really hard balance. There's also like a side of you know, there's some guys that don't want any of that. Um and like I would challenge those guys just to just say like man, the weight of a you know, uh the machine that is a police agency or a fire agency, like is a heavy weight to carry. Um and the you know the the more hands, the lighter the work. Like, you know, we've I've seen times where and man, I'm blessed to we're we are blessed to work where we work. Um I see some of the other issues in the agencies, you know, especially um, you know, the major metropolitan areas, and I feel so bad for those guys, man. Um but when more guys can say yes, it oils the machine and it's it's lighter on everyone rather than you know the the 25% carrying 80% of the the weight. Um but yeah, start for me being able to say no was very difficult, took a number of years, but then I started to find some peace in that and a little tiny bit of balance. Um I know another area, like I'm no longer like probably the most difficult thing for me was I intentionally gave up canine. Um I loved canine. I always imagined that like someday I'm gonna be sitting around drinking coffee with the old boys, and our balls are gonna be sagging to our knees. And and like I just remember I always thought like canine as I look back, like canine will be like what those stories at the coffee table are are about. Um I loved canine, absolutely loved it, and took on another fairly major responsibility, and like I had to just be really honest with myself. Um I don't know if it was maybe it was even more for the agency and not for the family, but it was like I can't like I'm doing an injustice by trying to balance these two heavy, heavy responsibilities, and so I've got to give one up. All right, you can't be good at you know, you're you try to do all things, you'll do nothing. Um kind of principle. And so I gave that up, but that also created some balance, I think. Um is it is it saying no? Is it other principles that maybe have guided you?

SPEAKER_03 24:58

What well I don't know if I'm changing topics a little bit, maybe, but like I struggle with that a lot still. And like I haven't got to where you're at yet where maybe it's as easy for me to say no.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Like I said, maybe I wasn't completely clear on what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

I'm still struggling, but it's a huge struggle for me. Um and ultimately that struggle then gets put on my spouse, right? Because you know, my stress becomes her stress. I think uh just one like revelation that's come to me somewhat recently.

How Much To Share At Home

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Um was my stress is becoming her stress. Like our spouses have stress, they work jobs, they you know, raise kids, they they do stuff too. They're not just sitting in a corner waiting on us to get home. So they have stresses. And when I come home, like this is this is this weird balance. I'm gonna back up a little bit. When I first started, I was told by a senior officer, somebody I respected at the time, and I still respect. He's like, Don't ever tell your wife anything, go home, don't say a word, talk to the boys because they know what we're going through, right? They can handle it. Your wife can't. Don't talk to her. And that was awful, right? Like that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

You can't two becoming one.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

No, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:23

You're like you're shutting your spouse out completely by doing that. So then I went the opposite way, right? And I was like, I'm telling my wife everything. I come home the first ten minutes, like I spill it, the good, the bad, the ugly, the stresses, all of it. Like you gotta find a balance.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Right. If you need to get it off your chest, that's what your loved ones are there for to talk to and to work problems through. But like all of the added stress, right? You have to know that some of that's then getting spilled over onto your spouse. So like if it you don't need to get it off your chest, I found you don't. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but for me anyways, if I like the extra, and I tell my wife what I went through, the things that bother me, the things I need to talk about, and then all the other little stuff, I don't pile it on top. Because what ends up happening is now her she has her own stress, and then she just pile it on my stress. And as a man, I don't listen real well. So like when she tells me her stress is it goes in one ear, not the other. So like nothing gets piled on top of mine, it all just ends up on top of her.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah.

unknown 27:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

And so like that that's a real struggle. Or like as a man, also, I don't I don't hear the struggle, I hear a problem, and then I try to fix her problem, which creates a problem.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

So you mean that your wife doesn't want her problems fixed by you?

SPEAKER_03 27:51

No, yeah, she just wants to talk to you. And just talk. Yeah, that's not what we do. It's not, it's not. You you work all day and you solve problems, you come home, you're not at work. You're at home. Um so that's a struggle. I I've recently kind of looked deep and and re realized that I'm struggling with and that I'm kind of doing my wife a disservice with. I can see that in her that I'm that I'm failing in that area.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

So totally stonewalling her and not including her was not good. Not good. And totally dumping on her was not good as well. That there's this middle road, maybe that um you share truth and love and balance, and uh the spirit of God can give you wisdom and discernment and how to share that, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

That's like a like so we mentioned just a little bit um, you know, like the trauma versus hope that that topic came up, but like maybe it's worth diving into just a little bit. I I would say managing time and you know, this the broader topic of today, duty and family, not the greatest at. I would say that that talking to my wife over the years, like I would say that I've had a really good balance with that. And I think it's something that guys really need to dive into because and I'm not saying that even well, you have to do it this way, or you have to do it like Derek, you gotta do it like Matt, but like you need to wrestle with it because it can really create some tensions in the marriage. And I think the way that I mentioned it before was like and and I I would say on if if it was tell your wife everything's a 10, tell your wife nothing's a one, I'm like a seven, like a seven point five, maybe. Um because again, I'm I'm giving her a reference point to see the man that is changing in front of her, right? We all change, but you know, if I'm truly like thought that like man, I nearly like really about died, I'm not gonna probably explain it to her in that way. I she's probably gonna be aware of the situation. You know, if something was extremely it was violent or gory or you know, just horrendous, like she I'm I'm not gonna tell it in that way, but like she's certainly gonna be aware of the situation um to give her that reference point. Like just the other man, like okay, like here'd be an example. So we um it's been a busy couple days, um uh super busy. And so, like, this gets into we got so many topics that you're bringing up, man. This listening and hearing. Um and so my wife, I get home, again, I'm trying to work on these things, especially when you're thinking this topic's coming up in the old podcast. We gotta really try hard here. I get home, um, you know, wild night, I guess, you know, semi-normal for us, but still pretty wild night. And she wants to tell me about her stresses, right? She wants to tell me about her day. And she made the acknowledgement though, which I appreciated. I tried to listen to her, not just hear her, because I'm like that, right? It's every guy's tendency, your wife wants to talk about things, especially in the first responder community. It's like, man, I watched, you know, this person die. I saw this, I saw that, I did this today, and then they're like, Well, I had this conversation with someone, and you know, it just wasn't quite the outcome I thought it would be. And you're like, Glad you got that as your biggest problem of the freaking day. Right. And then we don't listen at all. We hear them kind of, but we don't listen to them. And so, like, that's something I've worked on. So, like, for me, marriage is we're celebrating our 15 year this year. I still I look up to those people 30 and 40 and 50 years down the road and try to learn from them. But you know, we have a little bit of I guess experience in the matter, a lot of failures, a lot of lot of a lot of learning through failure. Um, you know, we at some point during the day we come together and try to listen to those, whatever her, whatever she wants to talk about, try to listen, try to be engaging. And she made the comment because I am a person who has shared some of my experiences with her, and she said, I know that like this isn't probably what you were doing, like this doesn't compare to like what you were doing last night, but because she was aware of the situation, but like this was my struggles today, and so like, hey, let's can we talk about this? Yeah, let's talk about it. And I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna compare, like, that's so easy in marriage, no matter what it is. If I do I mow the lawn, but you do the dishes. Well, mowing the lawn takes longer, so I'd I'd rather mow the lawn. But um, and you know, we get in this comparing game, and so like for me to acknowledge like all right, we're not comparing, like you've got this life that you know you do really good at this, you know, these vocations, these responsibilities that I wouldn't even really want to do them. Like, I'm glad you take care of those things. And yeah, I have my job and the things I do, which may be perceived by the common person as kind of crazy and wild. But um, so yeah, it was like I think guys need to dive into this a little bit. If if you've not, if you've been married and you're a first responder, um, and you've never wrestled with like what level of communication you need to have, you at least need to wrestle with it. Because, and I know that you know, personalities are different and even generations are different with you know how they might handle the level of communication, but I my wife and I always come back to you know, fortunately, it's not that we haven't had our struggles, but have a strong marriage, and time and time again, I mean, a hundred times over the years, we sit down and we go, what why do we have a strong marriage? And the only thing, you know, you could say, oh, you know, the the church angels, like, well, we have God, but but lots of people have God. The only thing we've ever came back to is communication. That is the only piece where we see that it has strengthened us together. We we are open to talk about anything, anything at all. And we do, and we try to listen. Doesn't mean that, you know, I'm the normal guy too. I don't, it's so easy for me to hear her just, you know, it sounds like but trying to actually listen and communicate, and just like with Derek, like what you're saying, like when it comes to these work events, like, yeah, we got to be cautious to not offload, you know, our stress onto our wives. But if we're the guy like, you know, I think the story you mentioned, you know, uh, in one of the previous episodes, like we're on this horrible scene and then showed up at a birthday party. Like, if we can't give our reference point, a reference point to our wife of like, hey, I need some time, right? Like, just give me some time. Like, then then they don't, then they just think, you're just Derek's just being a dick again. Like, you know, Matt's just being an asshole. I know if I get that. My wife's a pastor. So if I get about once a year, I get called an asshole, and I know I deserve it, and I need to stand up straight and salute and just shut my mouth.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

I think things also you need to realize things are relative, right? So, like that instant you were talking about that's a super big deal, right? And like a super big deal to my wife may not be to me, but it is to her, right? So, like giving them an opportunity also to offload and let us know where they're at, and then being able to accept that and not just write it off is nothing because that's nothing to us.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yeah. Yeah, stress is in the eyes of the beholder. Yeah, everybody's gonna perceive stress differently, and what maybe an 80 to one person might only be a 20 to another person, but yeah, you got two people, what they consider to be an 80, and you consider to be an 80. They perceive to be the same amount of stress, and yeah, they got stuff they're dealing with and going through.

unknown 36:19

Yeah.

Inviting Your Wife Into Decisions

SPEAKER_04 36:20

I know for me, like inviting my wife into the decision making has been like a strong breakthrough for us. Like, even before I came to this this podcast today, like I was asking her, like, hey, you know, like they asked me if I preached the Good Friday service, but I don't know if I haven't had this piece. What do you feel about this? Should I say yes? And you know, and she's like, I think you should say no, you know, and it's like a good thing. And so, but inviting her into that decision because I was so independent before we were married, you know, like I'd buy this investment property, start this business over here, bought this car without her asking her permission on it, like early in our marriage. I bought a whole car without even asking her, you know, it's like, like, cow, I was so stupid. I was just doing my own thing because that's what I so used to. But inviting her in has brought more oneness. So this tension that would has pulled us apart for years is slowly starting to bring us back together as I ask her into those decisions and I communicate my concerns, you know, like, oh, well, we've got this deadline and this is coming up, and I got to do this before this happens, and this is my tension. And so then she gives me that that uh permission, that release. She's like, I understand why you're like you should go and do that. You should say yes here. And so, like inviting her in, um, because I was horrible at saying no, I'd said yes, like like if you go to the buffet, I'd put like everything on my plate and then second story of food and third story, you put your bread on top, you know, like that's how I live my life. I just always said yes to whatever was on the buffet. And so um, inviting her in and letting her help me say no to good things. They were always good things, like preaching on a Good Friday service. That's a good thing. You should. Um, and so there was a point in our marriage where like I committed to not say yes to anything without talking to her first. And thankfully, like we've moved and like I've grown enough that I can say yes and no on my own accord now. But like I was a little kid, I couldn't do it. Like I needed her, and that brought oneness, inviting her in rather than keeping her at a distance.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah, I mean, like in law enforcement, like it's an important distinguish of if an opportunity comes up, like that's beyond just a one or two-day commitment, like you know, if it's a promotional position, a specialty position, what whatever extra responsibility that isn't maybe just going to be confined to the normal working hours, like it's time to consult the wife and make a decision together. Um and you know, there's guys that maybe won't understand that, like, but it's a much better route to take. And they may not always, and we got we also be honest to communicate, this is actually what this commitment looks like. This is what this entails, this is what this means, these are the implications, um is definitely a better way.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

And I found she sees things better than I do, yeah. And that she's a helper to me, and like her wisdom and her counsel is good for me. And so, like, is it duty versus family and commitments versus family? It's like, no, it's supposed to be and us together. And so I think finding God's design for this is including your wife, and then letting God speak through her, like she has a relationship with the Lord, He can speak through her to me. And in fact, like that was the only thing that started to finally break through into like these. I didn't realize at the core how wrong I was bent, you know.

unknown 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

That there was a worship in me, an idolatry in me that was contrary to God. Like I worshiped work, I found my identity and what I did, found my purpose, found my community, I found my fulfillment and doing. And like that's the work that God's allowed this tension and this friction in our marriage, you know, to the point of seeing counselors about it, you know. Like He's He's using my wife as a savior and a sanctifier in my own walk to bring this delight and to save me out of it.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

I feel a little ashamed because I've never thought of one piece you said there, like I love God and I trust God. I love my wife and I trust her, but I'm like, I believe that God gave me my wife. I mean, she's awesome, right? But if I trust God and I trust that He gave me my wife, why wouldn't I trust her? Yeah. I'm a little ashamed. I never put that together. So I'm I appreciate you saying that.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Yeah. Um there's a parable, you know, of the talents that were the um Jesus shares, you know, and just trusted with these talents and they go and earn a return. And I'm I love investing and multiplying money. And so it's like, yeah, I like this story, you know. And he says at the end, Well done, well done, good and faithful servant, come and enjoy, you know, your master's happiness, your master's joy. He says, Well done, good and faithful servant. And I've wrestled with that because it's like, who do I look to that tells me, well done? And I think first and foremost, that has to be the Lord. It's not what others are saying about me. Like laziness is such a huge sin. Like I've realized because work ethic is so important. And so, like, to be considered lazy is like, I'd rather be an adulterer than be considered lazy. You know, and so who do I look to that says that about me? You know, I look to the father who says, Well done. And then I look to my wife who also can say well done to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

That gets into like the you know, when we say no, we're not just saying like we're saying no to, you know, sure it could be like our boss, but a lot of times it's like our it's like our brothers, our co-workers, and like that's hard, that's challenging. But to prioritize like the well done from maybe even more so like the wife. Like that's like it's hard to look guys in the eyes when there's an ask. Be like, nope, I can't, not today. Like that that's just hard, it's very difficult. Um maybe some like deeper ways, you know, I'm still figuring all this out, right? I I could say I'm doing better, right? And if my wife is sitting next to me, Duty versus family might say, ah, you still suck at it, like probably the case, right? Um I can tell you though, there was a there was a shift in my career, maybe five, six years ago, something like

Will That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 42:51

that. And I sat down one night, it was on third shift still, and and um I sat down and I wrote my will. And like, you know, there's the technical legal side where it's probably a good idea, right? I I wrote mine uh you know, more in like a story format, more in like a letter format to each person of my family. My son wasn't born yet, but you know, my daughters and my wife. And you know, there's a lot of tears shed writing that, but man, did that put things into perspective? Maybe like I've never had before. Um you know, getting into this like what like God's given us our family. What responsibilities does that entail? Because it's easy to see the responsibilities that need to be done at work. It's but it's harder to see the responsibilities that need to be done at home. And like one thing I did abstractly is like, what are the characteristics that I want to build into my children? And like, you know, I you know, ironic that we're talking about this today, but like I work ethic was one of them, right? Integrity, like bravery to do hard things. Like, even just those three things alone, like that's gonna take a lot of time. That's gonna take a lot of effort. It's that it's eye to eye, shoulder to shoulder, like time spent with them. And I think there's also a piece of this that's like making home time home time, right? Like when I'm home, I need to be home. And so like I need to be intentional with my time. And so, like, yeah, I still have to go to work at a certain time. I still have to work so many hours a week. Like, yes, I can try to limit some of those responsibilities. But when I am home, like I just think like like the other day. Um, so we're at CrossFit. I don't think we mentioned Evan Evans a Savage in CrossFit. He owns a CrossFit gym. And my kids are doing CrossFit, and it's one of those things. Like, I want to build that into them. I know what that's done for me in my own life, just that like work your freaking tail off, even though you don't think you can possibly accomplish this workout and finish it. By the end of it, you do, and you realize that you can't. And like that was that like you know, just a small piece of that like hard work side or or that um, you know, perseverance characteristic. Like it's helped to form decisions of like, all right, what sports are they gonna be in? It's like, well, they could do this sport, but like it's really not gonna build these attributes into them. Um, and so I but these sports will. And so, you know, one of the kids came over to me, I don't remember what the issue was, but like it had to be intentional to like eye to eye, like look at me and like let's talk about this. Oh, I know I know what it was. Like, um my oldest daughter, like apparently got her legs smashed in the car door when she's getting out of the door going to CrossFit. And I just like I took that time and I was like, hey, like, I kind of mentioned like previous injuries that she knows I've had over, you know, the last couple years. I was like, Do you remember that like daddy was okay and like it still hurt, but like I but like I didn't stop, you know, I didn't quit that workout or I didn't do whatever. Like, and she's like, okay, yeah. And like writing that will just man, it really changed my time with my kids and my wife much more significantly, even with my wife. Um, but we'll kind of talk about the kids for a second. Like, okay, when daddy's home, I've got to be intentional because it's so, so, so, so, so easy to leave a screen on and let a screen raise my children. And it's also so wrong. Like, it's so easy and it's so wrong of just being like, all right, we've got to be intentional. Like, like, it's for the last just like three years, nothing, you know, I'm still working through this. Like each year, I don't I don't really like the idea of like New Year's resolutions, just kind of, I don't know, just doesn't sit right with me. But around the first of the year, try to set yearly goals. I list each person on the in the family. Um, you know, my son's too young to do much, you know. Don't let him die. That's about all we can come up with on him. Don't let him fall off anything too awfully high. Small things are fine, build his character. But um, and like I I just I've been setting these goals of like, all right, you know, for instance, like two years ago it was pray. I want to teach my kids how to pray. And like that then changed, you know, in just a little ways. It shifted my time at home of like, all right, at night time when I am home, like a lot of times when we do prayer time, I'm already in uniform, I'm getting ready to go to work. Like, sit here and we like be intentional. It's again, it's so easy to just say a generic prayer, like being intentional about like, hey, you know, whatever that might look like, like teaching them to pray. And it has to obviously have to be at like an age appropriate level, but man, when I when I looked at the end, my imminent death, and I said, here's my will and here's what I want to ingrain into my I want, you know, I'm writing this letter to my kids and my wife saying, Hey, if I'm gone someday, like these are the things to chase after in life, and these are the things to not chase after in life. But then that really helped me, like at work, to say, you know what? This task, this responsibility, it's gonna be waiting here tomorrow, versus maybe working over that extra hour every shift. It's like, all right, I'm gonna wait, I'm gonna hold off, and then I'm gonna come back in, I'm gonna pick this up and I'm gonna take off with it and and and knock it out the next day. Obviously, that we can't always do that with our task. Um, but that has really helped me.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

We see that intentionality in Christ too. Like, if we want to know how to balance this tension, we can see that in Christ. Like, okay, he's he's on a mission to save the world. Like, if if anybody had a higher calling, like that's top, you know. And so as he's going along, he always has time for the person who's right there. And so like he's walking, he's he set his face towards Jerusalem, and then here's this blind Bartimaeus dude. This we don't even know his name, it's just son of Timaeus, you know, and he's calling out, Son of David, have mercy on me. And Jesus stops on his mission to Jerusalem to go have a face-to-face with this guy. So it was always like intentionality in the moment, you know, the the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery. It was always those one-on-ones, you know, the person in front of him was more important in that moment than anything else. And so if Christ does that for the stranger, how much more should we do it for our own kids? That intentionality that says, like, I'm gonna sit here and pray and teach you to pray. Um, I've been trying to like, I've been clocking in late at work because I have some flexibility in my hours this time of year, you know, just so I could see my wife when she wakes up. Like I'll stick around the house longer, you know, just to be intentional and seeing her in those moments. And so little by little, um, like we see that. Um we see that in Christ. We see that all through scripture, that precedence that as the father goes, so goes the house. As the father goes, so goes the whole house. You know, Joshua has that well-known verse, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Um, and we see the struggles, the successes, and the failures through of pretty much every character in the Bible. David got a lot right, but he messed up a lot in the family, you know, and then his son Absalom really screws things up because David had screwed things up, you know, and his son Solomon kills his other son, you know, like it's just messed up family, you know, which makes me feel better when I feel like, you know, it's a struggle in my own family.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Um let's talk about that for a second.

Leading The Home In A Hostile Culture

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Well, countercultural. Yeah. That the male is a leader of a house, right? Sets the precedence for the home. Right. There's all kinds of secular movements and ideologies that would say that's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Yeah, toxic max masculinity and feminine feminism and that would be too aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

That would be too toxic and masculine.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Yeah, which we know almost every home we go into where there's problems, it's because there isn't a stable male there.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Mm-hmm. 100%. Almost always. Yeah. You look at demographic gang violence, absence of a father. Like let's talk about that for a second. Like it's a heavy weight to carry, right? But at the end of the day, right, we are men. We are men. Our home, our family, our marriage, ultimately at the end of the day, we are accountable for it. That's hard to it's hard to think about, right? It's it's you know, the day-to-day, it seems like it's a 50-50. And and, you know, the way that my wife and I, you know, think through this, thankfully, you know, she, you know, even more than I do, just because of her upbringing, like has a very biblical view of marriage and the family. It's not to say that, you know, she doesn't, you know, test, you know, whatever my thoughts are. I'm glad that she does, because marriage is certainly a compromise. But, you know, I view it as this is a 50-50. It's just that at the end of the day, if I really and I've got to be in prayer about these things, but at the end of the day, that like there's a trump card that like I am ultimately accountable to the Lord with my family. And if I truly am like trying to guide the family in a biblical direction, that like I have to set that precedence. At the end of the day, like, we are the leader of our house, and we have to use that very cautiously. But at the end of the day, no matter what culture says, God will hold us accountable as the leader. Um, and like, what's that look like? And again, I don't want to sound like I've figured these things out because I haven't. The other day, a discount example comes to mind of like um, you know, trying to I guess what I'm thinking here is like we also need to bear the heavier weight, right? Just like we don't want to turn over too much of our stress to our wives, like there's part of this trying to find balance where we are the broader shoulders and we need to we are freaking men. So carry a heavy weight. All right, it's not to say that we can't try to balance that out with the wife with responsibilities and things, but like here's just like an example of um you know, the one of the things I've been trying to do the last few years get the kids outside away from a screen. We're going out for a hike, it was a beautiful day. They're they're bike or they're biking, I'm I'm running. And um we get to the end of the drive, we're just getting ready to go on planning on this you know, hour plus bike ride, hike run, whatever, and my phone rings, right? And there's certain numbers that ring through, and I know, hey, we probably got some work to do. And so I'm like, hey, uh, take off, I'll catch up here in a little bit. So I'm on the phone for quite a while getting details on this kind of ongoing event, and I can finally catch up to him. You know, first, you know, first kid response, like, what are you doing on your phone? I'm like, Daddy's got some work stuff, but like I'm here, so I'm like trying to try to find this balance. I'm trying to finish this run, spend this family time in. At the same time, I've got now a fairly complex tactical problem to solve. I'm starting to try to think through it. Um, so we we get in a a pretty good you know time out together. I also had some like fitness goals on the side. I had X amount of miles I needed to run that day, and I still had several more to run. But like I could tell when I told my wife, like, hey, I'm gonna finish this workout. You guys go home, like, what do you what are you gonna cook for dinner? She was like defeated. And I was like, alright, I know I'm getting ready to go into work. I want to do this workout, but I need to help her. I was like, set aside me, focus on her, and so I still like went out, just got in one more mile real quick, and I was like, honey, like I'm gonna help you. Like, I'm gonna take care of cooking dinner. So like that's not on your plate. And like I let her know on the communication side, I said, Hey, I got a phone call, we're gonna get called out here soon. Like, so my mind's gonna be again it helped frame this communication-wise. I said, My mind's gonna be somewhere else, but I'm gonna take care of dinner for you, and I communicate. I said, Hey, I cut that run short. It wasn't like it wasn't comparing, it wasn't, well, I did this, so you know you gotta do you know something else. It was just I communicated that, like, hey, here's my effort. I I cut that run short, I'm gonna take dinner for you, but my mind's gonna be somewhere else because I'm getting phone calls and texts on a regular basis. And just trying to find a little bit of balance there. I don't know. Um I don't know if that kind of was like a squirrel track for sure, but um, I think it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Like, pardon me, I hope my wife isn't listening to this.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

We're clipping this exact moment right now and texting her.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

So in that moment, that extra help, that extra communication, it's good. And like I feel like sometimes because I go through the same thing where I'm like busting it, trying to help out extra before I have to go in for something like that. So I'm like, man, I want to make things easier for her so I'm not leaving her with all of this extra. But it doesn't take away from how difficult it still is to leave. So it's like and that needs to be a thing that occurs often and not just in those moments. Like there's so many times, I admit, I could do more or like help out more and communicate more outside of those events. Right, instead of just like hey, I'm sorry, so I'm gonna do a little bit extra for you right now. Because that's how I feel when that when that happens, and I know that's how she feels. It's like, what do you think? You're still gonna be gone all night. I still gotta go to bed by myself. I still gotta you know, which is most nights, but like um Yeah, just I need to work on again, right? On those other days giving a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

So now we've got these issues of this, like now we have these extra burdens. So, like, what's that look like?

SPEAKER_04 58:01

Like, so you got called out all night long on your night off, like Matt said he did that just for this podcast, just to say he texted me, he's like, hey, we're back on me because I know you're not off, but unfortunately we needed you.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Do we try to like what's a what's a plan of attack here? Do we try to make that time up? Is it just is it quality time versus quantity of time? Like we have these other responsibilities, we have these things at work that we have to do. It's ultimately at the end of the day, it is how we earn our paycheck, and there's situations like the other night where you know there's a there's no way to hardly justify that like I I I can just say no to this, right? There's potentially theoretically lives on the line. So like what I don't know, is there any ways that like, and again, we're all still working on this. We're trying to, we'll be much better husbands tomorrow, having talked about this podcast. I'm gonna turn right around and listen to the podcast myself here. Like what? But I don't know. Do we is it all right? I make sure the next day that I spend quality time. Well, I don't know, what's it look like? Or maybe anything that's worked.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

I was hoping you could tell me. I mean, I know last I don't even know what night it was now. I've kind of lost track of time. Maybe it was last night whenever we got called two nights ago, whatever. Um, yeah, my wife was furious, right? And I get it. I understand why she's mad. It's like if it's not this, it's something else, it's always something, right? But like it's a job, um, has to be done. And I think my failure isn't in the moment or when I get called out, or those nights. I think my failures lie in the nights where I don't have stuff going on. Where I'm like, Oh, I can take a breath. I don't have all this extra work, so I'm gonna pull back and I'm gonna relax more. I I knew I was gonna sneak this in. Like my favorite line in the Bible, God tells Job, prepare yourself like a man. Like you need to step up and be a man and take care of things. Part of that's your spouse and your kids, and putting yourself second.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Because I love my wife. I love my kids more than I love myself. And if I say that and really believe it, yeah, then I need to put them first.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:19

I think that's you bring up something big there is just the self-denial piece, denying yourself. Like, you know, you limiting, I know your goals and what you're training for, you know, like and you limiting that, like denying yourself, denying yourself, denying yourself. And if you've had such a habit of doing that with your spouse, me with my spouse, then she knows when you have to say yes to something like that and be called out, she knows there's a strong reason. This is not his habit, this is not his norm. He's not just saying yes to say yes, there's a reason. And I feel like I know for my wife, like she's been more supportive of me. Like if I've had the habit of doing that well and being present with her, then when I have to be away from her, then it's done well. Also, and so that self-denial that says, okay, it's not about me in this moment, like I'm home, I'm gonna, like, I'd rather sleep right now, I'm exhausted, I'd rather do whatever, refuel. Like, no, that that happens when everyone else is in bed and I'm alone by myself with the Lord in the dark in the early morning hours. Um, right now I'm with her, you know. And then as that rhythm builds where you've been so present with your family, that opens the door to that stepping out when it has to happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

So if we were to call like, we'll just I don't know a better term, we'll say those extra hours, we'll call that the mission. So, like before the mission and after the mission, like we've got to bear that extra weight, have self-denial, even though I'm tired, like right, there's a balance, right? There's a we also have to take care of ourselves to a certain degree, right? If we literally have no no sleep, like not good. Um, if we're not spending our own time with the Lord, not good. Like, we also have to be fueled with good things. But saying, all right, I could take a nap, I could watch TV, like that'd be my like if I'm really like when life is really stressful, that would be probably my I don't watch very much TV, but like if I'm finally like I want to straight up veg out, like it's gonna be TV and some food, and it's like no, like I need like here's a time where my kids are awake and I'm home, my wife's home, I need to be with them. Um and then after the fact, like, but again, I think that communication piece is key. If and again, it's not comparison, it's communication. Like, I know for me, sometimes it's like, all right, you know, just like you know, even doing this podcast, again, good things can get in the way of you know, family time. It's like, all right, we weren't able to be together then, but hey, because we weren't able to be together then, like, let's go do this thing and be together now. And like communicating that effort is important, especially for the wife. You know, the kids interpret you know, these things a little bit, you know, childlike, um, or at least the the age of my kids, but yeah, to try to have that self-denial and try to make things up, even when our tank is running pretty darn low, and that's that burden of the man that the man has to carry, and it's just part of it and suck it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:35

You know, I mean, again, we're preaching to ourselves here, like suck it up and duty can motivate for a while though, too, but like you gotta have your own bucket filled, you know, and so like if I'm not filling myself with the Lord, you know, and that looks like a hundred different things, but it's it's worship music in the early morning hours, it's studying in scripture, it's studying to show myself a workman improved, rightly equipped.

The Big Rocks That Must Come First

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

Like I feel like the battle is won before the battle. And you guys know that as you prepare for our different ops and different things like that. You know, it's not in that moment where I say, hey, I've got to walk out this door right now. Like the battle's won prior to that. And so, like, the battle with of this tension is not only one just when you're when you're present with your wife, but it's one in the preparation to be present with your wife too. And yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

You just said something there, it's kind of a maybe an old school generic preacher illustration, or at least is in my life, I've seen over the years. But like if you take a you take like a big glass vase, or let's say whatever, plastic vase, whatever, and you put like water in it, and then you put some sand in it, and then you put some small rocks in it, and some medium rocks, and some big rocks, the big rocks don't fit. You filled it up with all this other stuff. But if you flip that and you put the big rocks in first, and then you put the medium rocks in, and the small rocks, and the sand, and the water, it all fits. And like, yeah, there's there's there's a bunch of sides to these coins here that we're talking about. We're talking about a lot of different things, but like if we are not taking that time to spend with the Lord, like intentionally, right? It has to be intentional, or everything else in the world is gonna fill it up. Like, you know, small thing for me, which I was doing good at, and no, I'm not, is like when I wake up, like, don't freaking check my phone. Don't even look at it. Just like for me, it's straight to the coffee pot and then usually to the toilet, and like take the Bible and leave your phone. Like, if we don't put those big rocks in our life, like for me, a big rock is fitness, and I have to be cautious with that. But at the same time, it's a big rock that helps me in every other area of life. Like, it helps me to be, you know, more patient in that time. Of listening with the wife. Like, if I if I've spent the energy that I have at the weight room or whatever the you know exercise might be, like so sleep, one of the you know, obviously, you know, we're talking with dive into spiritual matters, so we're talking, you know, God is a huge rock. Sleep, man, is a huge rock. Like you've got, we've got to find a way as first responders to get some quality sleep because if we don't, it jacks up everything else. It makes us more emotional, makes us get pissed off a lot easier. Like, it's tough. And then those other little things, like they'll they'll they'll fit in on the end, like prioritizing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's the problem with this whole topic, I think, is not that the loves are wrong, but that the loves are wrongly ordered. Like your love for your calling, your love for your your brothers in arms, you know, your duty, those are good loves, those are right. But if they're out of order with the love for your family, then they're wrong. And if that's out of the order with your love for the Lord, then that's wrong. And if we ever screw up that order, we screw it all up. So seek first Him. Like getting the getting the right, the right stones in the bucket in the right order.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

Um so like Evan, you've you know, I don't know, we've had a lot of opportunity to share your you know, life stories and vocation experiences. You're a man of of of many, many things. We've known each other as you know since we were very young. Um and I've always deeply admired, you know, that you've always placed the big stone of time with God in your life. Deeply admire that. Um I guess what has that looked like for you? You know, we've never really talked uh to my recollection a lot about like spiritual disciplines or, you know, if it's Bible study or prayer time and like what I don't know what why is that so important? How have you made that important? Like, and what's the effect of it?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

Well, let me tell you about this morning. Um, I sat down on the couch to be with the Lord and I picked up my phone and I scrolled through Fox News and I was looking at the Iran stuff, and then it was time to get ready. That's what it looked like this morning, man. Just confessing and being honest. Like, I don't get it right so often, you know, but other times it's like a couple days earlier this week, like I woke up earlier and I just was in the quiet, just sitting in quiet, not having noise, and just being present with the Lord. Like you don't even have to talk to him, like you don't have to give requests, you're just with him. And then it looks like opening his word and memorizing scripture, studying scripture. I'm trying to study through the whole book of Isaiah right now, which is a daunting task, you know. But oh, I'm starting to know the Lord so much better through it. You know, it's putting on worship music when I'm getting ready. So my heart's singing the right songs, you know, and a lot of times when I don't feel it is when I need to have the worship music on the most. And so, I mean, all these spiritual disciplines take time to develop, just like any discipline. It's it's not easy, it's discipline for a reason. Um yeah, listen listen to the proclamation of the word. Um sermons have really shaped me. And um I get a lot of time alone. There's sermons with some people you're watching. Yeah. Um depends on depends on the season of my life. Um Matt Chandler's been one I listened to, Tony Evans. Um, there have been more recent ones. Um JD Greer, um the uh what's his name from Texas, who's gained some popularity here, Josh uh losing his last name. Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

He's on my YouTube feed all the time. Say Francis Chan. I don't know if you've watched him much. He manif I want to kick in the balls, I'll watch Francis Chan.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

Shout out to Pastor Alan Nolan.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Yeah. You don't watch him, that dude's so like you've on the same front, like I remember if you care to get into it, like you've shared some like spiritual disciplines that you've worked on the last couple years. I remember the you know, like one thing I know about you know, you guys are super humble and pretty difficult sometimes to share these things, but I know from the outside, like it's it's good for guys to get like you mentioned the word discipline, right? We're good at discipline, trigger control on a pistol. Freaking get your gun clean, polish your boots, whatever it might be, get your radio and your comms in check, get your cables stuck away so you're not getting stuck in doorways. Go to the gym, do the workout that you don't want to do. But then when it comes to spiritual disciplines, man, they're on the back burner. Right? And it's like that. You know, again, this is newer for me. Or or maybe uh an old habit that I had years ago. It's like you don't feel like reading your Bible, you probably need to read your Bible. Like you've got these other things going, like, guess what? It's the workout you don't want to do, it's the workout you need to do. Like get with the Lord in prayer, turn off you know, the podcasts and put the worship music on. But yeah, like so what are Derek, what are some of your disciplines that I I've I know and I've been really thought were awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Yeah, so like are you kids are always watching at all times, right? Our kids are watching all the time. So in the mornings, which I I've gotten away from, I need to get back to it, but I would it's two things. One, I'd either do a Bible study, get on the table, you know, I'd play the sermon and follow along, or try to handwrite the Bible, like word for word. And it was great. My oldest daughter, like Wester Hart, I'd look over and she'd have her kids' Bible open and she'd be writing alongside of the words. That's awesome. Yeah, like the most proud moment ever as a parent, right? Seeing that. And I've gotten away from that. And I'm on my phone a lot, and so now what do my kids want to do? They're on their phone a lot. Not their phone, they're on they'll take my phone and try to be on my phone. Yeah. It's like monkey see monkey do. So I I need to get back to it for my kids' sake, not just my sake, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

The greatest gift you can give your family is your own relationship with Christ. Uh the greatest gift you can give your community is your own relationship with Christ. And that um maybe the greater gift to your community isn't your service to them as an officer, but the greater gift to your community is your service to your family. And that you're giving them a godly family. You know, because we see generational curses repeating themselves, and you guys see that in your job so much that you use the parents and the parents' parents, and it's just repeating, and so the sins of the fathers follow to their kids and their kids' kids, but the blessings of the father follow for a thousand generations, scripture would say. And so those sins in my life, you know, my inability to have a healthy relationship with work. Like I don't want that to follow to my kids someday. Like I need to get that right, you know. So as the father goes, so goes the whole house. And we already hit on that a little bit, you know. I was thinking of the Philippian jailer. Um, this dude was ex-military most likely, likely living in Philippi, you know, and Paul comes in and he's he saves the slave girl who's demon-possessed, he saves Lydia, this rich girl who's got like multiple houses, and then this jailer who's locking them up, like um comes to faith in the Lord through this miraculous intervention. And it says he and his whole household were baptized. You know, and so as men, as leaders in our homes, like you've got to put the big rock in the bucket first. You'll never solve this tension between duty and family if you haven't been with the Lord, because man, there's this verse that terrifies me. It says there's a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death. And that terrifies me because it seems right to me. Yeah, or else I wouldn't be walking in it. You know? And so the tension in this issue, uh there's a lot of faith that comes into play that says, first off, like, I don't know the way. There's a way that seems right to me, it's going to end in death. I don't know the way. And then there's this other verse that says, whether you turn to the right or left, this is in Isaiah, you'll hear a voice behind you saying, This is the way, walk in it. That that God's word won't return void. And so it's the scripture that tells me how to how to live and how to walk this tension. You know, so the first realization is that there's a way that seems right to me and it's not right, and that his way is better. And that way is understood through scripture. Um, and the cool thing is that God desires for me to walk in that way, which means he wants to help me along that road. Like I don't have to get it figured out perfectly, and I'm gonna stumble and fall, but he's gonna walk it with me, he's gonna lead me in that way. And then just to have the courage, the faith of obedience. Even when it's hard, even when it hurts, even when it costs to say, no, I've committed to this. I will lead my family first. They're the greater mission.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:47

What's your guys' experience with prayer is so important, but prayer specifically with your wife?

Why Praying With Your Wife Is Hard

SPEAKER_03 1:15:53

It's something that I've always I've always wanted, like I've always wanted at night to pray with my wife, but I admit, like it's something that I've always been apprehensive to do or like fearful of. Yep. I don't want to seem, you know, dumb or overly sensitive, or you know, I don't want to be weak in my wife's eyes, so like I struggle a lot with taking that step. Is that something you guys do?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

Man, there was it's it's funny because yeah, I'm I'm hoping Evans pulls in clutch on this one. Um there was like a time where we like prioritize it, but it didn't like last for super long, I assume, because our you know our schedules are so out of whack with each other. Um but man, I hear of the guys that like regularly pray with their spouse, especially like you know, like the Christian leaders I admire and and you know, some giants of the faith, and it seems like it's a practice that they all have, and like they they just talk about like the wonders it does. And so, yeah, I mean, challenge for me too.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:53

Like you mentioned the guys in the faith, and some come to my mind right now, you know, and I think I've always had this faulty assumption that it's came easy for them. And so the fact that it's difficult to pray with your wife, like it's difficult for everyone. Like it's difficult for me. It's difficult for those guys that I look to. One of my friends would say, you know, that um the most intimate thing you do with your wife in the bedroom is praying with her. Kneeling beside you. Like, if you want to be vulnerable and have intimacy with your wife, try praying with her in the bedroom. And man, that's convicting for me. Um, because I don't like I'm naturally, I can I can study, I can be in the word so much easier. Prayer has been a more difficult discipline for me to develop and with my wife. And so um, like we've prioritized it um at supper every night that it's not just a um like hey, thank you for this food, amen, kind of thing. But like we pray for those people we encountered at the gym when we were working out, pray for their marriage, pray for where they are with the Lord, pray together, you know, for family members that are struggling that we both have. And so um that's been a niche for us. Um we used to pray some, you know, when we're in bed at night, and that's kind of slipped by the wayside, something I really need to start leading us in more. Um, but it's it's hard, like it takes a courage.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

Um Yeah, I mean, I can walk through any door you point at, uh-huh. And and I don't care. Yeah, it just is what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:19

I always say something else in my mind when I get in the bed with my wife. It's just not on my mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:28

I mean, I'm confused. What is that matter? I'm praying for something, but uh not praying to doesn't always get answered, does it?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:40

But yeah, that courage, that that's that's tough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:45

Why is it so easy for men to be courageous when it comes to duty and job, but not to be courageous at home?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

I don't know. It's like that vulnerability aspect, you're like, this is who I am, this is how I'm looked at in a certain way, but that contradicts things. But I mean, like it does, but it doesn't. Like if you we feel like it contradicts things, but it takes a lot of courage and bravery to do that, so it's it's not weak at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:14

Yeah, that's it takes even more courage. I mean, that's the picture we see in Genesis, right? With they were naked and unashamed, with so much more than just physically naked, like they were vulnerable towards each other and unashamed about it. You know, and to go to prayer with the Lord with your spouse, there's a vulnerability there, and that we hide from that. You know, that was the sin we cover ourselves. Um, and so it's easier for us to charge through a door where there's maybe a gun or who knows what behind it than it is to charge to the Lord. And what I think we fail to realize is that our battle is not against flesh and blood. Like there's a reason this is a struggle for so many men. Because Satan, the enemy, the accuser, the of the brethren of our souls would would want to draw us out of what our design is, to lead our families, to charge into the battle, the spiritual battle with our wife, guns blazing, man, storming hell with a water pistol, and just being like, look, the if the Lord is with me, who can be against me? You know, and taking ground for the kingdom, like there's such a greater call, like that that call you feel to charge through a door and your courage to say yes to that. Like, how much more in the spiritual realm are we called to that? And yet we neglect and we miss. I don't want to get to the end of my life and realize I missed out on so much that the Lord wanted to do in me and through me and for my family. Because I didn't have the courage to lead spiritually. But thankfully, like we know, like it's a process. Like the Lord wants to walk that road with you. So when you stumble, when you can't figure it out, when you screw it up, like you're not alone.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

I'm just saying through like vulnerability and marriage, like certainly still have you know more room to grow, but maybe one area where like I've seen I guess some lessons learned, and like, you know, my wife and I joke like I cry more than she does.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:15

Me too, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Um weird because the guys I work with be like, huh? Yeah, yeah. Just that not normal, but um yeah, I've seen like being vulnerable in whatever way, right? Not like sit here and like have a Dr. Phil moment with my wife, but like to talk about the deeper things of life are real struggles, what they are in the season. Like one thing, a blessing I've seen in that is usually when I'm weak, she is strong. And when she is weak, I am strong, and we get to compliment each other in that way of like, you know, and say, you know, every once in a while we're on the same page in that, and then it, you know, if if you're both weak, kind of you know, kind of sucks. But you know, there's a lot of times where I've seen whatever the struggle may be, and like she gets an opportunity and she pushes me back to the Lord, or she shows me my purpose, like she shows me whatever, like it's usually a noble good thing, and then vice versa. Like, there's times where like she is down and out, and it's like, no, honey, like this is not this is not the issue that you're like, no, like whatever, I don't know, like no, like you are you have all this purpose and meaning and you're doing all these great things, like what about this and this and this and this? Like, I know this is a struggle, or you maybe you're even misinterpreting that, but like you are needed by you know all of these people, like, or maybe it's a struggle and it's like, hey, I'm really struggling with this right now. It's like okay. Well, and I get an opportunity to be like strong for her, and and like I said, she is that way for me. But yeah, I'd say that's came through vulnerability, not not so much in the prayer, you know, prayer time. I mean, we you know, we pray a lot with our kids, um, but not not so much just her and I. Um Yeah, it's I'd say the juice is worth the squeeze on that one. Um about real practical stuff, like you know, kind of cover back to like dive back to like a few different directions to really bring some of these things home. Obviously, we've been pretty open about the fact we still really struggle with this stuff. Like, okay, you mentioned like prayer, the importance of prayer. Like, okay, well, when there's a responsibility at work that's you kind of need to give a yes or no answer, like, are you taking those things to the Lord? Like, I had one recently, it's still kind of ongoing. And I I literally said it as a joke to someone, uh leader of mine, um, who I admire, and and said, Hey, why don't you pray about that? And I was like, So I prayed about it. And you know, the the the seems maybe that that the answer to that thing was really different than what I thought. It was not really at all including the Lord in that decision whatsoever. Um, and so communicating with our wives about these extra responsibilities that we might be taking on, like again, if they there's times where like, haven't you talked about your wife's like, no, you shouldn't preach on Good Friday? And their ears like, you know what, you're right. Like, you know, and you could see where God was, because obviously that would be a great thing, it'd be really godly to do that. But you know, taking these, you know, whatever it may be, there's so many opportunities at work, you know, depending on you know the seasons and the the department and all that, but like, you know, may maybe it's a promotional position, maybe it's a canine position, maybe it's a uh, you know, an undercover drug position, like taking it to the Lord, like getting wisdom in that area from him, taking it to the wife, like talking about it, and making a collective decision. Um saying no to things, like saying no to good things. Yeah, yeah. It's hard. It's hard when we're buffet plate fillers, for sure. Um and being home when we're home.

Stop Being A Cop Off Duty

SPEAKER_00 1:25:34

I can talk about that for even just a minute. Like you know, I don't I see where people struggle in this area. I don't know if I've ever really had a deep struggle. I don't I don't know that Derek ever has, like, but like don't be a freaking cop when you're not at work. Like, don't look like a cop, don't feel like a cop. Like, yeah, like have a gun on you, protect you, you know, you you're still you still are a police officer if you have to be, but gosh darn it, it better be really bad. Like, I know for me, like, I don't I don't have cop t-shirts, I don't wear, I don't have cop bumper stickers, like it just opens that, like it helps that hypervigilance to at least drop down to a respectable level when you're off duty. Like, I'm I'm a really big proponent for like watching critical incident body cam videos, like just like on YouTube. I think there's a ton of training value in it, not when you're off duty.

unknown 1:26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:27

Like, I remember early on, like my wife would be like, uh, you know, I would struggle in that area of just like watching cop shows or something when I was off, and you know, she'd like make fun of me for it. But at the time I didn't realize, like, no, you're still like you're still, you know, even watching a body cam sometimes, like your heart rate might jump a few beats because you know, you know what it feels like to be in that situation. You maybe you watch the description, you know what's gonna happen. Like, um, you don't be a freaking cop when you're not a being a cop. Like, I think there's a lot in that.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:57

Like the thing I'll just point out too, if you don't have kids and a wife and you're a young cop coming in, now's your chance to learn, yeah, and to take that time, maybe even outside of work. Like, that would be an appropriate area to jump on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:14

The public drives me nuts when they're like, cops only get 800 hours of training. I've spent thousands of hours training, reading books in my bed, uh watching videos. All that stuff is great and it's needed, but it puts a burden on the family. Like, so if you can do that before when you're young, that 21, 22, 23 year old cop just starting out, like there's your opportunity to dump all that information in.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:42

So that jump into this for a second. So, like even Ecclesiastes in the Bible says, Pull it up here, there's a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. So, like, on we're uh we're you know, there's two sides of this spectrum here, right? The job that we do is it is very Very significant, right? You are showing up to, I think, like just a worst case scenario, right? We'll just put this in a very bold perspective. You're away from your house, and some monster is freaking breaking into your house, and your wife and kids are there. And they're going to do bad things to your wife and kids. Be the police officer that you would want showing up to that call. Get your stuff freaking squared away. Train your butt off. Like anything, like this job is worth doing, freaking do it good. So you mentioned then, right, but now we're saying this whole podcast, there's guidelines to this. Like early in that career, that's that time to dig in deep. Like, you better have you know muscle memory on drawing your weapon and and and and you know, from less lethal to whatever your physical tactics, like again, those are like physical tactics, a perishing skill needs to need to keep up on it. But so like I think our call, you know, to young officers is like, this is your time. You have no idea what life's how wild life is about to get when you get married and have kids. Um, especially those kids, like they just like they spell love T-I-M-E. They need your time, they need your time. So it's not a call to not be the best cop. It's a call to know what season you're in. The issue is, like for us, I think we were those cops that dug in pretty deep as young officers. But then when and how do you pull back the reins a little bit when you transition seasons in life? That's hard. It's hard to it's hard to interpret when that's happening. Like, but if life feels completely out of whack in this area, maybe it's because you transition seasons, but you didn't transition some responsibilities. Like, see, that's super important. Because at the end of the day, like it made a lot of memes, Secret Service on Trump. When Trump got shot at, or you guys did get shot, you know, there's one individual that didn't know how to holster their weapon. Come on, yeah, you know, like be the best cop that you can be. Train. Because at the end of the day, lives are on the line, right? There's a lot of unfortunately, there's a lot of videos you can you can look back on and you see maybe if the training time and effort was really spent, the outcome of that video would have been a lot different. It never would have been a video.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:02

Um yeah, so I think there's a call to young officers early in their career, like dig in deep. It's probably fine to work some extra hours, especially if you don't have kids. Like work at it. What do you got to say? I know, I know this is the heart of who you are, like discipline and work.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:22

Yeah, I mean if you're a young officer, right? You do dig your heels in, study, study. I mean, even when you're working, there's always downtime, right? You got an hour downtime, no calls, study. Like case law, the the guidelines from which we're allowed to work don't really change that often. Right? So you take a few years of really digging your heels in and learning as much case law as you can. It's pretty smooth sailing after that, right? There's a few things every now and then that you have to keep up with, but that's it normal in every job, right? Continued education. Like you gotta create that foundation hard right from the beginning. And it is so much easier to do that when you're not sacrificing your children or wife's time. And even if you're just married, right, like there's ways to do it. You can you can listen to podcasts or you know, YouTube videos or read while you're on the treadmill, right? Like there's ways to work around it, but you really have to dig in early. If you don't, and you're one of those guys who didn't do that, and then you're five, ten years in, like, you're a liability, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:37

Yeah. So this idea, again, I don't put much thought into this, like, but then there's a tr a season, again, but particularly when children are involved, maybe even just the wife.

Seasons Change When Kids Arrive

SPEAKER_00 1:32:54

When the season has to change a little bit. Like, what's that? Maybe what are some guiding principles or lessons learned, or no, I'm just full-blown still in that struggle. Like, what's that?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:06

Yeah, for me, anyways. I can only speak for myself. Like, I mean, every night in bed, if things have calmed down, we're reading our books, right? Like, I'd sit there and I'd read case law. Like, now that I have kids, I want to be with my kids. Like, I'm I'm giving that up, and I would expect everyone else to also. Right. So, like, hopefully you dug in deep early, otherwise, you're giving up something you didn't even have to begin with. So, like, for me, once those kids came, like that was huge. That was a big turning point for me. Um, I had kids a little later in life, you know. I say that. I was only I started having a family in my late, late 20s. Um not super late, but um I was also a cop in my late, late 20s when I started. My wife was accepting of it because it was just us. Like, but kids, there's so much work. And kids, it's great work, and I wouldn't change it for anything, but there's so much, it's so time consuming that you just can't put your work over top of your children. So yeah, I just I would just say that it has to be done early on. You gotta lay that foundation before you can start building.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

Yeah, and even for the dudes that like they're they're just thoroughbred cops. They dug in deep, like it's all they know. There's a reality, like we haven't said yet, I don't think, maybe in different words, but like you're gonna turn that badge in someday. And like we have to be cautious to not wrap up our identity and our vocation. Like, you see this in police, you see this in military. Right? Like, there's this really difficult transition time for the general, for a large percentage of the population, military law enforcement fire of like we also have to kind of take account now while we're in the midst of it and be like, all right, who am I? We, no matter who you are and what you do, we are more than cops, we're more than fire guys, we're more than soldiers. But we need to let the Lord speak that into our lives and speak it into our own lives. Um like these responsibilities at work, they they are always, no matter what, they're gonna be temporary. We're never going to not be our kid's dad. Right? Hopefully, we'll never not be our wife's husband. We're talking about two different levels of deep importance here, and like we've got to and just find ways to really understand our our our roles and responsibilities in the home.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:11

I think a good test for that, if somebody asks you, like, hey Matt, tell me about yourself. And the first thing you say is, hey, I'm mad, I'm a cop. Like, or hey, I'm in law enforcement, and that's the first thing that you want to say. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:26

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:26

Your first thing should be like, yeah, I'm a dad. I've got X amount of kids, right? Like, I'm a husband, uh, I'm involved in this church, or you know, I I go to this youth sports and help out with this, like those should be the things that we're proud of. And then we talk about like this is secondary to all those.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:43

Yeah.

unknown 1:36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:45

Yeah. If your identity, if your purpose, if your fulfillment, if your community is only in your job, that's idolatry. Yeah. All those are meant to be found in the Lord. I say that because that's what he's revealed in my own heart. Like I have worshipped wrongly, I've worshiped the wrong things. I was thinking of a verse in in Romans, um, and Paul in Romans has just been building this like crazy case, you know, like um, you were dead in your sins, you know, and while we were dead, Christ died for us while we were his enemies, you know, and there's now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life. You know, if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. And so Paul's been just building this case for like chapters in the book of Romans. And he finally comes to chapter 12 and he says, Therefore, in view of all this, in view of all these mercies, offer yourselves as living sacrifices, holy and acceptable to him. It says, Do not be conformed to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test what is good and perfect will is, and improve what is good and pleasing and perfect will is. And so that's the verse that's really struck home with me here recently is that do not be conformed to the pattern of this world. And the reason, three guys in a room, three guys with the same struggle, like this is the pattern in our prosperous American society, is that you you work hard, you work for your, you know, and you find your identity in what you do, not in who you are. It says, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, and you can improve of his good and pleasing and perfect will. That God's will is good for you. It's pleasing that this tension is settled in something that's better, and that his will is perfect, meaning it won't contradict itself. And so if you have to sacrifice your family for your duty, that's not God's will. It's not perfect. If you have to sacrifice your duty for your family, that's not God's will, it's not perfect. But each of these can reside perfectly together because he's a good God and he's designed it that way. So we got to be transformed, renewing of our mind. It's only found in God's word. He says, this is the way, walk in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:16

Yeah, I think at the end of the day we get we get caught up with doing and working and more tasks because we're men, we're problem solvers, we're mission-oriented. It's easy to see that mission at work. There's always a to-do list at work. Um, seems like some in conclusion, like we need to get we need to get quiet with ourselves, with the Lord, and like analyze our life. Like become introspective, and are we the husband that we need to be? Are we the father that we need to be? Right? I don't we can't look at the picture of what other fathers are, right? Because there's a there is a freaking plague of absence of fatherhood right now. Getting alone with the Lord and man being brutally honest with ourselves, like are we too duty focused? Maybe not. You know, but there's there's there's some guys that probably balance and manage that well. I'd say for the vast majority, we don't balance and manage it very well. Um, we see there's just no super, you know, picture perfect box of application. It's gonna look different for everybody, but like digging in. This is your life, this is this is those are your kids. That's your life. And like, yeah, we've got to be men to step up and um you know, we mentioned like self-denial and sacrifice. I think we also would be worthwhile to mention rest.

Rest And Sabbath As Discipline

SPEAKER_00 1:41:15

Like, I remember thinking through this, like one thing that's always amazed me about the scriptures is that um Jesus, who was fully God and fully man, yet he rested. He's he woke up early sometimes to be alone with the Father. He slept. He rested, you know, in the storm on the Sea of Galilee's happening, what's he doing? He's sleeping.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:38

There's so many other applications to that, but it's a discipline, it's a spiritual discipline, learning how to Sabbath, and that the Sabbath is a gift to lay down your work for a day.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:52

That's something we could spend a whole topic on, right? Yeah. I've realized here lately, I'm like, all right, this the idea of Sabbaths is so far removed from American culture in today's age. It's so easy to not even think about the fact, like, even you know, in the creation narrative, God rested, like, and and man, I've not been resting a day a week. It's a calling, and so taking vacation time, like do not let your vacation time just build up. Use it, it's there for a reason, but guys sometimes don't.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:30

Yeah, it's a blessing, like you're missing out on the Lord's goodness to not rest. Like we we think the the day of rest was the seventh day after all the work was done, but that was for the Lord. Like day seven was day one for Adam. Like, okay, God, what are we doing first? I'm supposed to till this land, I'm supposed to carry it. And he's like, we're gonna rest first because your identity is not what in you not in what you do. Like, I'll take care of the doing, the Lord says. You just be like rest and be.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:05

But yeah, then on the flip side of that, there's that discipline side for men of like we are the leaders of our home. Right? Again, American culture, a lot of times the men are working and the wife's leading the house. Like, what are we doing to invest into our families? How are we, if maybe there's a way to do it, how are we making up the sacrifice from the job to our families? Um, because it costs them a lot, right? It's an expensive cost to the family, and that looks like a bunch of different stuff, but maybe for another day. And then I think in all this, man, we've acknowledged that like we need the Lord's guidance because we obviously kind of suck at this on our own without the Lord, you know, left to our own ways and ideas, like we're just gonna be workaholics and and this family's gonna take the brunt of that. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:01

Yeah, there's another path, you know, and I'm still trying to find it, you know. But he says he says, if you walk by the spirit, you'll live by the spirit, you know. Like he wants to walk step by step through every decision. Like you don't just pray and hang up the call, you know, like you keep talking with the Lord through each of these moments, and and before we know it, we'll look back and be like, wow, like the Lord really has brought goodness, he's really brought blessing. His way really is better. Yeah.

Prayer And Final Challenge

SPEAKER_00 1:44:34

Well, my cool is let's close this in prayer and just go to the Lord because man, we need it, we need his guidance and strength in this area. Lord, I thank you, God, for these men, the men listening, God that you have given us this calling that is honorable to be on the front lines of problem solving and chaos in our communities, God, that we can bring peace and order and goodness. It is a calling from your heart. And yet, Lord, you've blessed us with these families. God, may we understand our place at home? God, would you start to place in our hearts that our greatest, our greatest leadership calling, duty, task, position that we will ever have is at the dinner table. We struggle to see that. We struggle to understand that. God, would you make that known to us that our children, as they look eyeball to eyeball with us, if they know it or not, are expecting our leadership, are expecting our time and our presence. Yes, our provisions are good. It puts food on the table. But our presence, being with our wife, being with our children is the deepest desires that they have. God, it's kind of like it feels sometimes like putting a puzzle together and trying to fit these pieces into life appropriately and seeing which pieces fit. When do we when do we give time to work? When do we give time to the wife? When do we give time to the kids? When do we give time to ourselves? We need your guidance, we need your strength to help us maneuver those pieces around. I think around Lord, of all the men that are watching this that go into the battle, go into the fire every single shift. Would you give us clarity on one hand that we are needed? Because a lot of times at work it seems like you know, the civilians don't really want us sometimes. Would you remind us of our purpose and our mission? And yet, God, sometimes we just neglect that family mission aspect, God. Would you as well boldly lay that on our heart? Because at the end of the day, we're gonna hang up the badge. And for some, the career will have ruined the family that's left over. And for some, God, that the career will have only complemented, that we have built into the family that's left over after the badge. God, may we be men who leave a legacy in our family. God, that for generations to come, some of the decisions that we've made to invest our time and our energy into our marriage and into our parenting would greatly impact generations to come in the future. And most of all, God, we we just need, God, again, as we spoke of in previous, may we humble ourselves before you. That we would not lean on our own understanding. God, that we would seek your ways, that we would put time with you as a big stone every day into our life. Spending time in your word as a map for guidance. Spending time with you in prayer, your whole Holy Spirit wants to guide daily, moment by moment, and we don't go to you enough. Would you guide us, Lord? Would we recognize and remember that we need you every day? And Lord, where there are marriages and relationships with children that seem beyond repair, you are the healer. God, would you strengthen and heal those relationships?

unknown 1:50:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:33

In ways that only you can do. We pray this. Pray all of these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Well, I hope you guys got something from this. But I've got a favor to ask you. The reality is that there are men across this country, medics, fire, police, military, that they need to dive into these things because they're struggling right now with some of these very issues and more. I can make the content, but to get it in the hands of the people that need it, that's up to you. That's your job. Um, I would highly, highly encourage you, if you can think of some people right now that maybe it's even a stretch of faith for you. Man, send them a link. Hey, just take a look at this. Um, whatever that might look like, it's going to be up to you guys to get this stuff out to the people that need it. Thank you.