Episode 5: Multiple Jobs, Creative Loneliness and Changing Direction

In this episode of The Creative Couch, I respond to three thoughtful creative dilemmas from Helen, Sue and Liz – exploring how to organise a creative life when you have multiple roles, how to navigate a shift in your artistic direction, and how to find creative community when making work alone starts to feel lonely.

Helen wrote in after listening to the first episodes and asked a question many creatives will recognise. Like many artists, she doesn’t just have one job. Her week includes teaching, administration, communication and making her own work. How do you structure your days so that creative work doesn’t constantly get pushed aside by everything else that needs doing?

Liz’s dilemma touches on something many artists feel but rarely say out loud: loneliness in the studio. She used to attend a wonderful weekly textile course where students learned alongside each other and were even working towards a shared exhibition. When Covid arrived the group dissolved and never quite reassembled. Since then she has taken online courses, but they never quite replace the feeling of being in a room with other creatives. How do you rebuild real creative community in a world that increasingly feels online?

Sue has built a strong practice around one particular medium. Over the years she has become known for this way of working, and importantly the work sells. She has collectors who buy it and a gallery that regularly takes pieces from her. But recently she has felt a strong pull towards something completely different. How do you know whether a new direction is a genuine evolution in your practice, or simply a distraction that could destabilise something you’ve spent years building?

In this episode, I explore:

• How to structure your time when you have multiple creative roles
 • Protecting studio time from admin and teaching work
 • Navigating the tension between artistic evolution and financial stability
 • Why creative practices naturally shift over time
 • Practical ways to rebuild creative community and companionship

Each dilemma is explored with both emotional insight and practical steps you can try in your own creative life.

If you have a creative dilemma you’d like me to explore, please email me at

thecreativecouchpod@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Creative Couch. I'm Sam Marshall, artist and creative coach. This is a podcast about creativity, confidence, and living a creative life. Hello and welcome to the Creative Couch. This is the fifth episode, I think. So I'm recording a bat I'm recording a batch of these episodes before I go to Japan. So this uh I'm recording on a Sunday evening. I've just run a one-day etching workshop here at my studio, which was just absolutely wonderful. Um it's one of my favourite things teaching etching because it's such a magical process. And the students were just like, wow, it's so exciting! And just seeing their faces when they pulled back the print, it never ceases to bring me a tremendous amount of joy. So um, thank you to Andrea, thank you to Gilly, thank you to Jenny, and thank you to Tracy, who came to uh to stay here today, to stay. That's not the right word, uh, to visit me here today in my studio and uh delve into the world of etching. So uh yeah, so that's a little bit of context. So we're just kind of wrapping up this weekend. It's been a very busy weekend here, Holly Tree headquarters. I'm having my super second sale at the moment, so that is running on in the background um until tomorrow evening. But when this is out, um I will be in Japan. So I will release this episode when I'm in Japan. So hopefully you guys are following along with me on Instagram, on YouTube, and uh seeing what I'm getting up to. I can't wait. I can't wait to get away. Um, so today we have a lovely mix of dilemmas. So today I am answering Helen's dilemma, I'm answering Liz's dilemma, and I'm answering Sue's dilemma. So thank you again to everybody who sent in your beautiful, wonderful dilemmas for me to get uh get stuck in and answer. Um so Helen's dilemma. So Helen is a creative that I work with, and uh I know a bit of Helen's uh background. Um Helen is an art teacher and she's also a practicing artist, um, illustrator, and is juggling lots of different things. So Helen's um Helen's question I think is going to resonate with a lot of you out there, and it certainly resonates with me. So there's a lot of my own um story, I think, um woven into my uh suggestions for for Helen here. So Helen writes, I absolutely love listening to your first two episodes. Thank you, Helen. Um my dilemma is this how do you structure your day or week when you have multiple jobs? Like many creative people, I'm juggling several different roles and responsibilities, and sometimes I feel as I'm constantly switching between them without ever feeling fully organized. Have you got any tips for managing your time and workload when life and creativity are pulling you in different directions? Right, so who who identifies with that one? I can see quite a lot of you nodding. Well, I can hear quite a lot of you nodding, and I I'm sure that lots of us are are kind of in agreement here with Helen and the problems that uh a busy life with lots of different things, um, the problems that it creates. So I think the first thing, it's obviously very normal. Um, like many creative people, we don't have a single neatly defined job. You know, I th I kind of like to call it a portfolio life, a life with many kinds of folders and uh arenas and different areas to explore. And you know, you might be an artist, you might be a teacher, a parent, a freelancer, you know, you might be a landlord, you might have all these different um strings to your bow. And also managing a household. I mean, that's uh another thing in itself, isn't it? And I think what Helen is experiencing here isn't poor organization at all. It's not the fact that you're not very good at sort of organizing your life, but it's about that mental switching, isn't it? Switching from one thing to another and the difficulties that then develop from that. And it's interesting because today in the workshop here, I was talking about how I never run um, and I never run, let's say I was running a week of printmaking. Now I would never run a day of etching and then a day of lino cut. I like to keep them separate because lino cut involves a totally different way of working in your brain as opposed to etching. They're totally different techniques and they they involve different ways of thinking about things. And I think if you mix them up, you're gonna get really confused. And I kind of it's kind of what I'm gonna suggest here because I think when we are juggling lots of different things, often we do a bit of this, a bit of that, a bit of this, a bit of that. And that leads to that feeling of being really scattered and a bit of disorganized. So I think for me, what I found really helpful is kind of looking at my whole life, looking at all the things that I are involved in my life and kind of grouping certain things together. So that would be my main suggestion for Helen here is to kind of take a sort of overview of her life and put certain things into certain categories. So for me, so I've just been writing down the things that I how I structure my my time. So for me, I've got my admin, uh, which I call the admin is admin in the teaching. So that is my manage management slash organization sort of box. That's one thing, okay. And then I've got my creative time, my maker time, and that's another box. And then I've got my public, public time, public brain, I call it. Okay, so I've got three different categories, and I'm very careful in the way that I manage them. So normally for me, this is how it goes. In the morning, I will I'm doing my admin. So I'm doing my coaching, I'm doing my admin, I'm answering emails, I'm I'm really kind of concentrating on that. And then in the afternoon, I have a three or four hours, a chunk of time for my creative time. And no admin gets done in that time. I'm really clear with that. So you won't find me answering emails at that time unless something really urgent comes in. But but in general, I'm really clear with that category. And then about sort of four o'clock, five o'clock, I switch into the public brain where I'm thinking about my Instagram. I post my Instagram posts, I respond to DMs. So I'm really clear with my categories, and that makes me feel like I've got a much more subtle brain. So that's what I would think is is is making sure that you are protecting those areas and keeping them clear and grouping things together. So certain things need together. And obviously, there's household and all of that, and exercise and all of that, but they can be kind of categorized and popped into certain chunks. And I talk a lot with um uh my creatives who I think will work with work with this way. It's kind of a lot of it's called time boxing, and where you kind of have different boxes of time and you kind of move them around. And I really like that visual of just being able to kind of move these these chunks around. So I think really honing in how taking an overview of your schedule and then starting to categorize. And I think that you have to also accept that some weeks are gonna that some weeks are more admin heavy, some weeks are more creative, some weeks life just takes over because something goes wrong. And I think for me, that's what I've had to learn is I've had to be more flexible with things. So, say for at the moment, you know, I've had January has been the book launch, you know, I've launched a new podcast, I've launched a new YouTube channel. I haven't had much time for apart from going to Spain and doing some drawing, I haven't had much time in the studio making new work like lino cuts or etchings. I just haven't had the time. And that's okay, because my energy has been in other areas, and I kind of cut myself some slack with that. So I think you another part of this is that you have to accept that even though you set up this way of working, the balance will shift. Um, and what I always do, and I will always do this, and however it works, is that at the end of the day, I set up three things I need to achieve tomorrow. So for me, it's always the top three things, the things that are absolutely essential that they get done. So today, say for example, for me, make sure the etching workshop happened, make sure I was fully prepared before I closed the door yesterday. I got all my all my the I cut all the plates, I did all the grounds, I tidied the studio up, everything was set up. So that was my first thing. My second thing was recording this podcast. Okay. Second thing was recording this podcast. My third thing was keeping an eye on the sale. So I've got three clear things in my mind that had to get done today. And I will always do that at the end of the day. I write the three things that need to get done tomorrow so that when I wake up in the morning, I already feel quite clear about them as well. So I think that helping that, helping writing these down, it means that you simply begin with your day rather than kind of thinking a bit of a scattergun approach as like, oh my god, I've got all these different things. Get it out, get it on the page, get it down, get it visual so that you can see it. Okay, so this is these are all my organizational tips because I am quite organized, I get a lot of things done, but I'm quite clear. It's like, okay, right, next shift into the into the next mode, into the next mode. But I'm not mixing, I'm not mixing etching with uh writing coaching notes. I wouldn't do that because I'm using different parts of my mind. Okay, it's it's making sure that each different segment of your life, each different role, have a clear place to live. Okay, so I think for me, my structure is so important because otherwise I couldn't live the life that I live. My I'm my life is quite structured and I'm quite um rigid with it in a way. I'm very protective of my time because I know I've got to get a lot done. And I want to get a lot done, but I'm careful about how I do it. So, Helen, your homework is I want you to write down the three to four main roles in your life. So, you know, what is it? Is it uh is it like me? Is it your public life? Is it your you know, your social media, you know, uh, is it your um your paid work? You know, what how how does that look? Um I'm laughing because yeah, no, I'm laughing because I know that Helen sometimes does um yeah, there's sometimes a bit of a crossover with Helen's, you know, teaching and and her uh creativity. So um anyway, that's between Helen and me. Um and then uh yeah, so your life work, your paid, your paid work, your your paid work, your teaching, your uh creative life and your public life. So your your categories are going to be very different to mine, but write them down, put things underneath them so that you can see them all really, really clearly. Okay. So um, and and and then when when you've got that all all organized, you focus on that one thing and you don't switch in between it, okay? You give that because that just means that you feel like you're concentrating, and then you don't get this weird scatter gun. Like some days I do finish and think, oh, I've got nothing done today because I have, but I've just been bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit. And actually, when you say, right, two hours to just concentrate on a line note, or two hours just to write my coaching notes, get the job done, and get out the door. Okay, but I hope that's helpful, uh uh Helen. I I think you'll be surprised just how much how calmer things begin to feel when we um start to categorize things. Okay, so the next uh question comes from Liz, like next dilemma. And this is you know, I this is something again I think quite a lot of you will really relate to. And it's something that we we chatted about a bit in in the workshop today, you know, about how important group work is, how important working together is. Um, and actually Tracy and um and Jenny who who left today were really keen to kind of work together on their etching, and you know, as they was leaving and making plans as to how to get together and set up an etching place in their, yeah, I think they're going to set it up in Jenny's um uh space at home. And you know, it's it's about community. So this is the question that Liz brought in. So Liz says she used to attend a wonderful textile course in an adult education college in London. It ran weekly through the year and offered something she deeply valued, learning alongside other people. Not just learning from the tutor, but learning from each other. She helped gather a small group of fellow students and they were beginning to work towards a shared exhibition when COVID happened and everything stopped. After that, life shifted, people moved away, got ill, changed direction, and the group never reformed. Since then, she's taken online courses, many of which have been excellent, but they don't replace being physically in a room with other creatives. She feels working across textiles, quilting, drawing, and printmaking, but doing it alone, sorry, she enjoys, sorry, um, but doing it alone can feel lonely. She avoids, she also avoids social media, she doesn't use Facebook and finds posting on Instagram stressful. So online communities don't feel like the answer either. So rough, so in summary, uh Liz's dilemma is this: how do you find real creative community again when the world seems to have moved online and the in-person spaces feel harder to access? Okay, so I think when I look at this and I look at the emotional layer behind this, what I'm really hearing here is that it's not about learning, it's about belonging, isn't it? It's about being surrounded by people, like-minded people and all working on the same thing. And it's that lovely. I mean, I witness it all the time in my studio workshops, you know, people come together, they don't know each other, and by the end of the day, you know, we've we've we've shared things about our lives, you know, we there's it moves between sort of the more practical stuff of what we're doing in the in the workshop, but then you know, it moves into more personal stuff, and you know, do you have a cup of tea, have chat, and that all builds up into this lovely, kind of warm, welcoming space where work feels it feels you you feel like you're being nurtured and you feel like that creative energy is kind of carrying you through. And what Liz is describing here is that she's lost that space. And I think COVID disrupted so many of our lives, didn't it? And and sometimes for the better, sometimes you know things worked out for the better. Um, but for a lot of people, it disrupted them in a way that actually it's been quite hard to uh re-engage with the world in the way that we used to before COVID kind of hit. So I think um it's kind of like an echo of a space that used to exist, really, isn't it? And it's the morning and the morning and the yearning for that. Um and I think that I think the real important thing to remember here though, Liz, is that community doesn't always just exist where education institutions provide it, you know, it is possible to rebuild it in smaller ways. So there's I think there's different ways that you could approach this. So I think that start small, like say Jenny and um Tracy who left today, you know, they're gonna work together. So they are they're gonna kind of group together, make it a point that maybe once a month they're gonna go to Jenny's house and do some etching. So think about two or three people. So don't think about recreating a whole group. Just maybe one or two people from the old textile course, maybe someone you've met on another workshop, or maybe just somebody who has the same ideas as you. You know, maybe meet up in a cafe and with your sketchbooks and maybe just do some gentle drawing together, or you know, start maybe go around to one of each other's house and just take some fabric scraps around and just start sort of, you know, stitching together. And I can guarantee if you start telling people that you're doing that, you might get another other person saying, Oh god, I can I come along? Would that would that be possible that I come along there? I mean, just a simply monthly meetup in that way, I think, can often sort of organically grow into something much larger. So it's not an organization, it's just two or three people sitting together making things together. Yeah, so that's the first thing. Start small. And then I would say you're in London. I would then look for open studio type environments. So things whereby you can just drop in and you can do some printing. So, I mean, I teach for the Royal Drawing School. I know on Fridays they have an open access, you can drop in and you can pay, and you can do an etching, um, you can use the etching space for for a day. And you know, that's a great way to meet like-minded people. You know, you're not committing to everything, you just pay once a week. You go in, and over time, if you keep doing that, you'll get to know people because the same people come in and out. You know, I used to do that every single Friday for years and years and years and years. I did that, you know, I got to know a lovely bunch of people. Um, you know, life drawing groups, something like that. Go along to a local life drawing group, um, you know, quilting or textile guilds, you know, those kind of um spaces where you drop in and you're not committed to something every week, but you can start to feel like you're part of something. And in London, there's there are lots of places that you can, you know, East London printmakers, I think, do open access. Um, so I think it is a it is possible, Liz. It hasn't all disappeared. It's just maybe kind of being creative and of as to where you're looking for them. Um, and then I mean I kind of hinted at this earlier, starting something for yourself. So maybe you could put um, you know, if you fancy just organizing something, you know, maybe putting something in a local library saying, you know, monthly uh textile meetup, bring your own fabric, and just create a space. Because create a space where people can come. I mean, I know that sounds that sounds like it's quite a big effort, but it doesn't have to be. It could just be something small, or maybe talk to somebody who's also it with the same mindset as you. If you I mean, it it's a big thing to ask if you're not necessarily somebody who who's a leader in that sense, because I think those kind of organizational things do require somebody who's a bit kind of like forward thinking and uh comfortable with being somebody who's the leader, and of course, with that you then have to take the responsibilities of then kind of being responsible for everybody, right? But um, but it's just an option, you know. Um, it could just be something small that then grows up into something more. So that kind of relates to the first thing that I was saying, you know, maybe get together with a group of friends or a couple of friends. And then I think with the social media, absolutely, you you you it doesn't have to be performative, but it can be research-based. Now I know that Liz found me through social media. So Liz, you know, I know that Liz doesn't feel comfortable posting on social media, but you use it as a research tool. You use it to observe and discover opportunities. So I think don't discredit it totally. You don't have to show your work, but it can be a wonderful place to discover a discover things, you know. Maybe um, I mean, maybe go on a um a painting holiday or or maybe um you know, find out about some some workshop that's happening somewhere and you can go and you know, you go and do that. And you never know. I mean, like again, so so a couple of and Helen actually, funnily enough, Helen, who I talked about earlier, Helen came to one of my workshops last year, the multi-block workshop, and there was three other women there, and they those guys worked together for two days. They got on so well that they've met up numerous times since they've become really good friends, and that just happened because there were four of them sat in this room next door. Okay, so you know, little workshops, little courses like that, I think can you know create wonderful connections. So I think what's happening here is that you're not missing instruction, you're missing creative companionship. Um, so your homework, Liz, is just try a small experiment, just invite one person to meet up. Say, would you like to meet up with me for a coffee? Can we bring our sketchbooks and let's just sit together and draw? Something like that. Just something really simple. You're just making alongside each other for an hour or two, simple as that. And then see how that feels. You're not trying to recreate the past, you're just trying a new way of creating companionship. Okay. And I know that I mean, I I I do hear you about the online thing, but I you know, I've taught online for years, and you know, I teach online for the Royal Drawing School, and and I still believe, you know, I can sometimes have a group of 20 students or 15 students, and there's still a lovely connection between them. I can still hear the support, the encouragement, the warmth that they that that that is created with on within the online space. So I st I still think that's possible. And and you know, I do have people that I that I coach who who meet up online with just some friends, and they just have they're just online for two hours a month and they just make stuff online together. They're up they're just aware of each other's presence and they're doing a little bit and they chat to one another. Um, and during COVID, actually, I ran a thing called the print club where that was just exactly that. I mean, I was there, I was facilitating the space. People used to come along, sign in, and just work alongside each other quietly, and then they would have a private chat with me in a breakout room, you know, and that that worked really well. Or come along to my sketch club, Liz. Come along every month. Two hours. Same same people turn up. You know, I've got regulars who could turn up. Everybody's getting to know one another. It is possible online. Okay. Right. Thirsty. What time is it? Up to six. I'm really tired. But we're we're moving on because I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying this. There's some brilliant dilemmas. That's right. Okay. So this one from Sue. It's quite a particular one. Um and it's it's one that really, you know, I you know, sort of resonates with me a little bit. Um so let's let's dig in. Let's dig in. Right. Sue writes that she has built up a strong practice around one particular medium. Over the years, she's become quite well known for this way of working, and more important, more, more importantly, her work sells. She's got collectors who buy it and a gallery that regularly takes work from her from her. She said in many ways things are going well, her work is recognized, it has an audience, and it provides a reliable part of her income. And she also mentions that she's got a really big Instagram platform with the people who know her work of this kind of work. I'm not sure what kind of work it is, but I don't think that matters. But lately she's been feeling a strong pull towards something completely different. But she says the difficulty is that exploring a new direction suddenly feels much bigger than simple experimentation. The gallery wants the work that they already know because it sells, and Sue worries that if she starts making something different, it could confuse people or even affect the relationship with the gallery. She also wonders whether she'd be stepping away from something that is clearly working financially. So, in summary, her question, I think, is this Do you know whether how do you know whether a new direction is a genuine shift in your practice or just a distraction that could destabilize something you've spent years building? I mean, wow, what a what an amazing question, Sue. So thank you so much for sending in such a kind of uh considered and thoughtful question. And obviously it's it's a quite a complex area, isn't it? It sounds to me as if Sue's making quite a lot of uh, you know, financially, she sounds like her work is selling, um, and you know, um people are recognizing it, people are buying it, she's got collectors. However, it almost feels to me as if Sue feels a little bit trapped with this way of working. And um I think when we start off in our creative journey, there's so much freedom, isn't there? I mean, I hear it on this podcast, you know, I hear it when the dilemmas you guys are sending in, you know, like you've just started out and there's all these different techniques and these different art materials you can, you know, you can explore. And sometimes that can be overwhelming, but it can be tremendously fun. There's a lot of sense of freedom, and you're exploring, you're you're trying things out, and then and there's not much expectation to you know what it is that you're creating, and then something clicks, and there's that moment like, oh, you know what, I want to push this further, and then you kind of hone in and you push it a bit further, and you push it a bit further, and it gains traction, and then something shifts, and then you maybe start the process of applying for open calls, you might get a gallery that's interested, and before you know it, that work is your métier, that is your style, that is what people associate you with. Okay, and then galleries in particular, if they've got work that shifts, they want that work. They don't want they don't want new work, they want that work, they want you to keep producing the same kind of work. Um, it's a bit like you know, you're a you're a pop star and you, you know, you you've got famous for a couple of songs, and then you go on tour, and you everybody wants to hear the famous songs, not your new stuff, they want to hear the old stuff. And but I think that that the essence, you know, the essential part of us as creatives, so that we're we're constantly learning, we're constantly changing, and there has to be space for that to grow. There has to be space for that to grow. And I've talked a lot about this, and I'm going to quickly talk about it again. You know, my passion has always been drawing. Drawing has always been the thing that excites me more than anything. Now, I got this book deal with Bloomsbury, I became known as a lino cut artist, and I just thought, hang on, hang on, excuse me. That's only a small part of what I do. That's only a small part of what I do. And I knew I had to make the decision at that point. When that book came out, and it was so successful, so successful, beyond my wildest dream successful. I knew that I could have absolutely just run with that and just kept producing lino cuts, lino cuts, line cuts, all talking about lino cuts. But I just thought, hang on, I don't want to be pigeonholed here. I don't just want to become somebody who's known for their lino cuts because I've do a lot I do a lot of other things. So I purposely started introducing my etchings and my drawings, and I could see at the time, you know, things I could see like me, maybe with my Instagram, you know, people were like, but what's she showing this for? I like I like a lino cut. And I thought, I've got I've got to keep going with this. I I know my path, I'm really clear about this. I'm turning this ship slowly, I'm turning it slowly. And you know, it took, it's taken years, it's taken three years now before people now associate me with drawing as well as lino cuts. It's taken a long time, but because I knew, I really knew that I what I wanted to have a broad, expansive practice that allows me to grow and evolve rather than just being known for one thing. So I was really purposeful with that. However, I was also quite canny and I I don't rely on my prints to make my living here. So I'm I can afford to take those risks because I know that if my print sales drop, it's not a problem because I've got other ways of making money. So I think with Sue here, what it sounds like is that actually what's happened is that her work is selling and it's providing a really good um uh financial stability for her. And that is scary. That's scary. So what I'm gonna suggest to Sue here is that uh she keeps on making the work that is selling, but that at the moment is her bread and butter. You know, she keeps on making that, but what happens in the background is that Sue is allowing herself to explore, experiment, develop this new interest that she has. And just seeing where it takes her, I think that that's so important for Sue here. I mean, um you just need to let it quietly develop and just see what happens. Because I think Sue's question is also am I just being distracted? Am I just is this is this something that I'm really interested in, or is I as I am I just kind of jeopardizing things? Because I think what will happen, but if you keep that growing gradually and slowly and keep looking at it and keep letting it grow, then I think you'll have your answer. And then it I think that it's you'll then probably have a body of work that you've you've grown organically, and then you can possibly feel like okay, so now something needs to shift here. I do not, I do need to start introducing this new way of work into my audience, to my gallery. And you might find that if your gallery is a great gallery, they that we're probably really supportive of your new fan, sort of your new arena, your new area of exploration. Um you know, hopefully galleries are open to growing with you as an artist, they're supporting you, they're not supporting Sue as a XYZ, they're supporting Sue as the artist who has room to evolve. Okay, and and you know, I possibly would say that if that isn't the case, then maybe you need to look look elsewhere if that's the case. But I would never say that you should not, you know, explore and experiment and develop this new side of you because think you're growing, you're changing. I don't make the same work that I was making 10 years ago. You know, I don't want to be making that. I'm 50, I'm 50 now, I'm 40 then. I'm I lived in London when I was I'm living the countryside now. You know, your work's gonna change. Um okay. Um and also, I mean I mean, I've I have always I I I am very cautious of saying, you know, and I've always been really transparent about this, you know, my prints don't pay my mortgage, they never have done, they never will, because I don't want to put that pressure on my work. I just don't want that. So it could be that you know, maybe there's other streams of income that Sue could uh pursue while this shift and change is happening. Okay, so yeah, but I I want to encourage it, Sue. I want you to I want to say go for it. I'm excited to see what happens here. Um, so I think let's give you a time frame. So let's give you some homework. So I would say for the next three, three or four months, give yourself permission to explore this medium uh privately. You know, make a regular space for it, let it grow, let it evolve. And there's no pressure to sell it or anything to show it, to explain it. You don't need to do anything with it yet. Just let it see, let it grow. And then I want you to answer one more question at the end of those three months. Does this work feel like me? Do I feel more alive when I'm making this work? Because that's the question, isn't it? You know, you want your work to sustain you, you want to feel excited to turn up into the studio, excited to see what happens. You don't want to feel like a factory that's churning out the same good, the same hits again and again again. You want to feel energized, you want to feel like your work is showing you something new. And if it's not, if it's not, if it if it if you don't feel like that way, then then you've got your answer, haven't you? You are just it is just a passing curiosity. It is something that you just had a had a fancy uh flirt with. But if it is that you do feel more alive, then things start to, you know, then you not start to you need to then start taking it seriously. So that is my advice. Absolutely pour your energy into it, but make sure that you're still making time for the work that pays them pays the bills. Um, but look at your financial situation, look at different ways that perhaps there could be more of an income in while this is this is growing. So thank you for those. Uh all of them, absolutely amazing dilemmas. Um, and I've loved looking over them this past week and and writing my thoughts and feelings down. So thank you guys. It's now half a six, a little bit later than hopper six. I can't you know what I can't say, I can't see it. That clock's not working, I can't see that on the on the screen. Anyway, I know I've been rambling on for quite a while. Um, lovely to see, lovely to speak to you as always. And I hope you've enjoyed these uh three dilemmas as much as I've enjoyed answering them. As always, send your creative dilemmas into the creative couch pod at gmail.com. I'll keep them all stacking up and then I will answer them um as I get round to doing them. So thank you again, guys. And um, yeah, when you hear this, I will be in Japan somewhere. Marpa will be with her dad in London. She'll be she'll be being taken around all the art galleries in London. I'm gonna miss her. I always miss her. I always miss her. I always miss her, but it's important that you know I go and go to Japan and learn how to use these new cameras that I've got and uh keep keep uh exploring and keep taking you guys with me. So thanks again. I look forward to seeing you speaking to you next week. As always, I'm not sure if this is recording or not. Fingers crossed, I'm gonna click end and let's see.