Episode 27: Retiring as an Artist, Marketing Your Work & Finding Time to Create

A little podcast note: there won’t be an episode of The Creative Couch next week as I’m away for ten days and taking a short break. I’ll be back the following week with another three creative dilemmas.

In this episode of The Creative Couch, I respond to three thoughtful creative dilemmas exploring what it means to retire as an artist, how to market your work when you really don’t enjoy marketing, and what happens when a demanding working life leaves very little energy for your own creative practice.

The first dilemma asks a question we perhaps don’t talk about enough: can you retire from being an artist? When making art has been such a significant part of your identity, what happens if you no longer feel the same drive to keep producing, exhibiting or pursuing opportunities? We explore the difference between retiring from the professional machinery around being an artist and actually stopping being creative, why our relationship with our work is allowed to change as we get older, and whether stepping away might sometimes be an evolution rather than an ending.

Sophie wants to get her artwork out into the world, but there’s one fairly significant problem: she really doesn’t want to spend her time marketing herself. Like so many artists, she would much rather be making the work than continually thinking about Instagram, promotion and selling. We explore whether being a working artist really does mean becoming a full-time marketer, how to find forms of promotion that feel sustainable and natural, and why marketing doesn’t necessarily have to mean constantly shouting about yourself online.

Anne-Maree works full-time as a teacher and desperately wants to make more of her own artwork, but by the time she has finished giving her energy to her job, she often feels she has very little left for herself. She is questioning whether she is genuinely too tired to make work or whether, somewhere along the way, she has started getting in her own way. We look at the reality of creative exhaustion, the danger of waiting for the perfect conditions to make art, and how small, protected pockets of creative time can help rebuild a practice without turning it into yet another obligation.

Also in this episode, I share this week’s Loving Lately: The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett, which I listened to on Audible and absolutely loved. It’s funny, heartfelt and quite dark, full of wonderfully flawed and complicated people, and I found it completely absorbing.

In this episode, we explore:

• What it might actually mean to retire as an artist
• Why our creative identity is allowed to change over time
• The difference between stepping away from an art career and giving up creativity
• How to market your artwork when you really dislike marketing
• Why promotion doesn’t have to mean constantly posting on social media
• Finding ways of sharing your work that actually suit your personality
• The difficulty of maintaining a creative practice alongside full-time teaching
• The difference between genuine exhaustion and creative avoidance
• Why waiting until you have more time or energy can keep a practice permanently on hold
• How very small amounts of regular studio time can begin to rebuild momentum
• Why our creative lives need to be able to change alongside the rest of our lives

Each dilemma is explored through both its emotional and practical layers, with ideas you can apply to your own creative practice.

A little podcast note: there won’t be an episode of The Creative Couch next week as I’m away for ten days and taking a short break. I’ll be back the following week with another three creative dilemmas.

If you have a creative dilemma you'd like me to explore in a future episode, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at:

thecreativecouchpod@gmail.com

If you're feeling stuck in your own creative practice and would like support, you can find out more about my creative coaching, workshops and artwork at:

www.sammarshallart.com

You can also find me on Instagram at @sammarshallart.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Creative Couch. I'm some martial artist and creative coach. This is a podcast for anyone navigating the ups and downs of a creative life. Each week I respond to three real creative dilemmas sent in by listeners, exploring both the emotional side of what you're experiencing and some practical ways to move forward. And from time to time I'll also be joined by other artists to talk about their creative life, their practice, their challenges, and what keeps them going. How are you all? I hope you're all doing well. It is Sunday here at Holly Tree Headquarters and it's not as cold. It's not as hot. It's not as hot. It is not as hot. In fact, it feels positively cool outside, which is uh a great relief to all for all of us uh in the UK, but not only in the UK, obviously around the world, uh especially in Europe. I know a lot of people have been really struggling. So uh fingers crossed, we're we're on the stretch to a bit of cooler weather. Um, right, a bit of housekeeping for a start. Uh number one, there'll be no episode next week because I am going away for 10 days and I don't have time to record next week's podcast before I go. So there will not be one next week, but I will be back the week after. So just letting you know that in case you're wondering where next week's episode is. Um, number two, I want to thank everybody whose dilemma I have answered and who have got in touch. It really means a lot when I hear back from you guys as to what you thought to my responses, how you're going to implement them in your life moving forward. So thank you to everybody who has written in. Um again, it really means a lot. You know, it's lovely to hear back from you and to hear how you are doing. So thank you for that. Um, right, moving on to um what have I what have I been loving lately? So I am listening to an audiobook at the moment, and it's a book that I've had on my radar for quite a while, and it's called The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartknet. Heart Hartnet, I think that's it. Yeah. Uh it's wonderful. I'm listening to the audio, it is narrated perfectly. It is funny, it is bit dark, it is tender, it's emotional, it's it's just one of the best books I've listened to or read in the past few months. Because I went on a bit of a streak of not ones that just weren't hitting, and I have to have a book on go. You know, it's so nice to kind of have a have a moment just to turn my audiobook on and kind of escape into a different world. And I I sort of feel a bit bereft if I don't have that. Um, anyway, this has filled that gap nicely. So it's called The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. I think it's Hartnett. Anyway, you I'll I'll write it in the show notes. The show notes. Right, okay, so let's get on to today's dilemmas. So today I am answering Anne. No, I'm answering Celia's dilemma first. I'm then answering Sophie's dilemma, and then I am answering Anne Marie's dilemma. So that's all the cool kids say, let's get into it. Just just before we see that, can you see little marple sat in the background there? Oh my goodness, how delicious is she how delicious is she? I can't wait to go away this week. So I'm teaching, I'm getting distracted, I know, but I'm going to tell you what I'm doing. So I'm going down to Sussex to do four days of teaching for hand printed. Um, wonderful hand printed. Many of you will buy your printmaking supplies from them. That is down in Bognery, just down in Sussex. And then we are tagging on uh four days. Marple and I are going in the camper van to the Isle of Wight. So I just can't wait to hang out with my brown girl for four days and just do some drawing and just be with her. I'm really excited about it. I can't wait. Anyway, right, let's get back on to the dilemmas. Okay, so Celia writes in and uh she has a question about what happens to your identity as an artist when your creative practice changes. She says she's been a professional artist for many years and has become known for working in a particular medium. More recently, changes in her life have meant that she doesn't have the same stretches of continuous studio time that she once had. So she has found herself moving more towards painting, drawing, and keeping uh travel sketchbooks. She says she's actually really happy with this new way of working and that drawing while she is travelling has become incredibly important to her. But she has noticed that people who knew her through the work she used to make seem slightly puzzled by the change. She says when she's out and about painting or sketching, passers-by will often say things like, Oh, what a lovely hobby, or you're so lucky to be so talented, I could never draw. And inside, she says that she's thinking, I've bloody well worked really hard for 50 years. You know, it's not just something that has just emerged. Um, so Celia's question is really if an artist effectively retires from one kind of professional practice and then starts working in a different medium or in a different way, are they still a professional artist or do they somehow become a hobbyist? So we touched on the word hobby, uh, I think last week's episode, and I uh I expressed my dislike of the word hobby because, like Celia, I have been um told or or or I have been uh in a position whereby men mostly have come along and said, Oh, is this your hobby? Um so I have a particular aversion to the word hobby. Um so I completely get why it gets under your skin, Celia. And obviously there's nothing wrong with having a hobby. Hobbies are wonderful, but I do think the word can be a little bit diminishing when it's used to describe something that has been part of your life for decades. Um, you know, because when somebody comes along and they sees you, see you with your your sketchbook there, Celia, they're just seeing 10 minutes of your creative life. They're not seeing the 50 years that have that have gone on uh behind that. They're not spending all the year, they're not seeing all the years that you spent, you know, drawing, printmaking, learning about composition, colour, materials, all that kind of stuff. Um and I think that's also why that you're so talented could also grate a bit, because you know, of course there's natural aptitude involved, but sometimes it it kind of makes it sound like you've just woke up one morning and you are able just to produce a you know a great drawing while you're out and about. Um so I think you know those two things there um are I absolutely understand why why they're kind of great grate at you. But I think the first thing I would say is that I I wouldn't allow somebody else's sort of casual description of what they see you doing in that moment to uh become a definition of what your creative practice involves. And I think that's you know it's very easy when we're out and about to take on board other people's comments and for them to become bigger than what they really are, you know. I think often people don't somehow some sometimes know what to say, um, and they just say things without thinking, you know. Um so I think it's important that you there's an element of detachment that comes along with that because you know how long it's taken you to get to where you are, you know the reasons behind your shift in the medium, you know why you are not working with the medium that you did. Um, and that's your business, you know, you don't have to explain it to anybody else. And I think there is something you know much deeper going on here, and I think this is uh, you know, a question about your identity now, because you know, you've obviously worked for many years in a particular medium, and people have gone to come to know you through your work, and it becomes the way they define you. Um, you know, you become a printmaker, you become the painter, you become the sculptress or sculptor. How do I keep using that word sculptoress, sculptor, um, the illustrator, whatever it happens to be? And then you do something different, and people become uncomfortable with that change. You know, they want to box you back in the box that they'd already kind of you know labelled you in. And I think that can make us start questioning ourselves. Um, you know, am I still am I still the same artist if I'm not making the work that people know that I normally make? You know, um, well, I think the answer is obviously yes, of course it is. You know, we are allowed to do different things, you know. I think that's why the word artist is so wonderful. And I don't I don't call myself a I mean, I'm an artist who prints, but I wouldn't go around calling myself a printmaker because I feel that is too reductive, really, for what I do. I, you know, I think it's much easier for me to call myself an artist because I do lots of other different things. Um so let's move on to the sort of practical layer here, Celia, because one thing I would like to slightly challenge is the use of the word retire, because I don't think you have retired as an artist. You might have retired from a particular version of your art business, you know, you might not be producing the same volume of work, you might not be spending the same amount of time in the studio, and maybe you've worked a what you've started working away from that, you've moved away from that commercial model that sort of served you well for many, many years. But that's not the same thing as retiring from being an artist. Um, and I think it's useful to separate three things that we often sort of muddle together, you know, there's the there's the artist, there's sorry, there's there's making art, there's being an artist, and then there's the your art business, you know. And I do think that um those things can overlap, but they're not necessarily the same thing. You know, you can stop running an art business and still be an artist, you can stop making money from your art and still be an artist, you can change medium and still be an artist, uh you know, and I think that in a way I do question the sort of term professional artist and hobbyist, and I don't think they're particularly helpful labels when it comes to talking about how serious somebody's relationship is with making art. You know, I think professional is helpful when you're talking about things like tax, income contracts, commissions, and business, but it's not necessarily a measure of commitment, you know. Um and I think changing medium doesn't necessarily mean that it's wiped away everything that you've that you've you know you've you've learned before, because all of that experience comes with you. Your eye comes with you, your understanding of composition comes with you, your understanding of colour and the visual language that you've built up comes comes with you. You're not starting again just because the materials in your hand are different. And I think what's really helpful, and I think something that you really need to get to get get really focused on, is that you know your art has changed because of circumstances in your life. And what you have done is you've been really, really creative with the way that your art can now fit into this new life that you have, or this new these new the circumstances that have created this has instigated this change. I think what you've done is really inventive, you know, you've created something that's really portable, you've be you've created something that allows you to make work wherever you are, and it gives you pleasure and you can return to it every day. It doesn't mean that you have to cart a whole studio with you, you know. You've got it's like I say, you know, my sketchbook is my studio, I've got my studio in my bag any one time, and I think that sounds a really healthy creative practice. You know, and I think it's important that we we have we have we give ourselves permission to that's the one word. I think it's important that we accept that our life as an artist has lots of different chapters, and this is just a different chapter in your life as an artist, you know. And I think just because you know things have changed and you might not be generating the money that you were making before, perhaps, from your other work, doesn't mean to say that you have to then denigrate your role, your your it doesn't it doesn't mean to say that suddenly you have to kind of demote yourself to a hobbyist rather than an artist, you know. I think that it's important to to really get to get clear on that and to feel confident with that. You're allowed to change, you're allowed to to to to become interested in in something else, and it's always you know, it's interesting because I whenever I have a coaching session and somebody comes to me and they say, you know, I want to call myself um, you know, I I do a lot of printmaking and I want to say I want to call myself um Sarah Jane Prince or something. And I said, I and I will always say, are you sure that that's what you want to call yourself? Because you are in a sense limiting yourself to just making prints if you call yourself Sarah Jane Prince, you know, it would probably be much healthier or even healthier was the word, it would probably be uh much more sensible to call yourself Sarah Jane Art or something whereby it allows growth, it allows you to grow rather than you know, kind of saying, Well, this is what I do and this is what I'm going to do. You may feel that you know that that is what you are going to do for the rest of your life, but you do not know that. You know, you might have circumstances like Celia, which sort of pulls you away from working in a certain medium and and and uh allows you to discover a new way of working. Again, I will tell you the story about, I mean, I've said this before, but you know, when my Lino Cut book came out, I was really conscious of the fact that I've got this really successful book, and people will associate me with Lino Cut if I don't suddenly show them everything else that I do, you know. Lino cut has only ever been a small part of what I do. Not a small part, it's been a substantial part, but it's not everything, you know. So I really made that choice as soon as Lino Cut came out to show everybody that I do do, you know, I'm I draw, drawing is the most important part of my practice to me. And you know, I I do etchings, I do all sorts of different things. I don't just do line out cut. And I think that's enabled me to keep making the work that I want to make, you know. Um, but it's also, I think it comes from me knowing that I don't want to be boxed in and that I want to allow myself the flexibility to change and adapt as I get older and I, you know, I'm interested in different things. Right, so Celia, for your homework, I want you to write down one sentence and what that sentence is, my art practice now is. And I want you to finish that sentence without referring to what your art used to be. So we are literally just concentrating on the present. Just describe the practice you have now. And underneath that, I want you to write down three different things of this version that this of sorry, this this new version of your creative life. Three things, three things that this creative life now gives you, you know, because you talked about freedom, you talked about flexibility, you talked about spontaneity. But I want you to write them down so that you're really clear as to, you know, this new creative life that you're leading, what does it enable you to do? Because I think the the thing I want you to move away from is, you know, what have I stopped being? Because I still think there's this, you know, real identification with what you did before. And I think it's almost time to kind of just sort of let that go and you know focus on the artist that you are becoming now. Because I don't think you've gone you've gone from being a professional artist to a hobbyist. I think that you are an artist through and through, and you are just changing the way that you work. It's as simple as that. Okay, I hope that helps Celia. Right, moving on to Sophie. So Sophie writes in that she says, uh, sorry, Sophie writes in um uh and she says to get the structure right, it's really interesting because I'm learning Japanese. Um, I'm really aware of sentence structure because Japanese the way Japanese people construct their sentences is very different to the way that we construct sentences in English. And because I'm constantly thinking about sentence order and pattern with Japanese, I often find myself thinking about that in English. Anyway, you don't need to know that. Right. Well, maybe you do, maybe you are interested in my my Japanese journey. I'll tell you what, my friends, if you are interested, I've signed up for my first Japanese exam, and that will be taking part, that will be taking place the first week in December. So I will be sitting my first ever Japanese exam. It's the JLP T5, which is the kind of the the most the easiest, easiest level to sit. And I'm not sure I'm ready, but you know, I'm I'm I'm I've paid and I'm gonna do it. So let's, you know. Anyway, I really am getting distracted. Let's talk about Sophie's dilemma. So Sophie wrote in to say that she's done a couple of craft fairs recently and pop-up events, and she's realized that she really doesn't like them. The most recent one felt particularly wrong for her. The venue didn't feel like the right fit, the other vendors were selling very different things, there wasn't much footfall, and the whole experience left her feel left left her left, sorry, uh left her feeling very emotionally drained and she was exhausted. Financially, it wasn't that viable either. She paid um $250 for the booth and she made around $300 in sales. However, there were some positives. She sold 11 pieces across different categories. Sophie works in mixed media, including some of her more expensive work. People responded really positively to what she was making and described it as beautiful and interesting. And she really enjoyed seeing all of her work curated together in one space rather than hidden hidden away in boxes and plastic bins in the studio. So Sophie's dilemma is this: if craft fairs don't really feel, don't feel worth the emotional, physical, and financial effort, how can she focus more on selling her work through her website and marketing herself online? She also asks about YouTube. She said that she's tried hard to make content for her channel, but she isn't gaining many subscribers, and more importantly, she doesn't enjoy the pressure of feeling like she has to keep up creating content for the algorithm. She says she'd also like to know whether I think it is better to uh whether whether it's better to make more YouTube content so that it would help her visibility or whether there might be another way of approaching it. Okay, right. This is interesting, and I I do hear this a lot from the creatives that I coach. Uh markets come up a lot. Um you know, I have creatives who do markets regularly, and you know, their success is variable, you know, some some months they can make a reasonable amount, others it's disappointing due to various factors, you know, the weather, uh the marketing, you know, what the fair actually is. I mean, Sophie talks about the fair this time, you know, she was surrounded by other stalls that weren't necessarily selling the right kind of thing that she didn't really feel like she fitted in. There's so many different things that can come along that can impact on whether you're going to have a successful craft fair or not, or fair. Um, and you know, I have, but I do have a couple of creatives who do really well with fairs and they really enjoy doing it. Um, you know, I think it's absolutely fine to say that you don't enjoy them. I don't enjoy them, and you won't catch me doing a fair. I'm just not interested. I'm not, it's not something that I'll do. Um, if I get asked to do them, I'll politely turn them down. I'm just not interested. I don't do it, I don't want to do it, I don't enjoy it, I don't do it. And that's okay to say that. Um, I think we go into we go in with this mindset as artists, and I talked about This in one of my recent posts on Instagram, you know, that we that we should be doing all these things, you know, therefore we should be having a shop, we should be um doing craft fairs, we should be well, I don't know, what else would you should be doing? Applying for residences, um, applying for grants, you know, all these things come along with a lot of a side helping of shoulds. And I think what we forget to ask ourselves is whether we actually want to do them, whether they would be a good fit for us. You know, there's always going to be parts of running a creative business as such, as like Sophie runs, where you know, you're not gonna love every single bit of it. You know, admin for me is something I don't really enjoy. Um, but there's no point building your creative life around things that you absolutely hate doing, you know. So so I get the feeling, Sophie, that you don't like craft fairs and you don't really enjoy YouTube. So my my question would be: if you don't enjoy them, then why are you doing them? Because you feel you should. But again, if that if if we if we get to that space where it's yeah, well, I don't want to do that, I don't want to do this, you know, obviously there has to be other things that you have to be doing to in order for you to get your work out there. If you, you know, because the thing is Sophie's clear with this, with her email, um, is that you know, she has a business and she wants to make money from it. So we're not just talking about a creative practice of somebody working in their studio, just you know, working on their ideas and and and you know, letting things flow. You know, Sophie's quite clear in her email is that you know, this is something she wants to generate an income from. And if that being said, then you absolutely have to take the right steps to show your work, to get interest, and to bring the customers to you. I think the the again, but I just want to make a uh you know, a point here though, that it could just be that that market itself didn't wasn't the right fit for you. You know, if you did some more research and you found different markets that maybe might be a better fit for you, then that might be an option. I wouldn't necessarily give up on all markets altogether. It could be that, you know, uh a different kind of space might work for you. But I think one of the important things to I thought about with your email is that what you did say was that you really enjoyed seeing your work altogether. You you enjoyed seeing it curated in a way and out of the boxes and you know on the walls or in a space. And I think that's useful information, isn't it? It's information that actually that is is is helpful for you to start seeing your work as a whole. So therefore, you could research, you know, putting on your own small little exhibition, hiring a venue, putting putting on your own show. I mean, I talked about this a few weeks ago with uh one of the um a guy what who wrote in maybe his name was Carl, but you know, hiring a hiring a space, doing it yourself, curating your own venue. But again, along with that comes marketing, and you and that is something that if you want to do this, you do have to get a little bit more comfortable with doing. You know, you do have to start shouting, look, you know, I'm here, come and have a look. People aren't just going to find you without doing that. So, yeah, so this is what I said here. Yeah, so you like seeing the work curated. It tells me that you probably do need opportunities to see and show your work outside the studio. Um, well, okay, let's go on to the website. So the practical thing is that you've got a website and that's the place where people can buy your work, but your website itself isn't necessarily the thing that is going to generate income if people don't know it's there. It's as simple as that. It's like having, like I've said this before, it's like having a small shop in the middle of the countryside without any signs. You know, you've got to tell people that that shop is there somehow. And you know, we then come back to marketing, we then come back to the tools that we can use to market our business. Now, Instagram. I don't think you want to get involved with Instagram, that's fine. Then these then then then think about other channels, right? So YouTube. So let's let's let's talk about YouTube here. You don't sound like you're enjoying YouTube. You don't sound like you're enjoying YouTube. So you've asked me a question whether generating more content would bring you more subscribers and more interest. Well, I no, is the answer to that, because you're not enjoying it. There's no point making loads of content if you aren't enjoying it. So I would ask you, what kind of content are you making, and what possibly could you do differently? So, okay, take me for example. I started this YouTube channel. I have absolutely no aspirations to become a YouTuber. I just knew that me doing my stories every single day, and I've done it for 10 years, and they just disappear, it was a waste, a waste of my storytelling. It was sad for the people who follow me, they couldn't refer back. I just wanted to make my content more stable in a way. So for me, my YouTube, especially with these, you know, these creative journeys and these artist vlogs that I'm doing, they're just an extension of what I did before, and I love doing that. So it's no shakes for me to do what I'm doing now, and I love doing it. I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. It's as absolutely as simple as that, and it's not difficult for me to do that. So, and I love doing it. Now, if I had to go and do something else, uh, let's say something that I know I wouldn't like doing, um, I don't know, like video, I mean loads of videos of process of how I put things together. I'm just not in, I don't, I don't enjoy doing that. I feel like it interrupts with my creative flow. I am not somebody who's going to sit down with a camera and show you how I draw and give you examples. That's just not me. I wouldn't do it and I would be resistant to it and I wouldn't enjoy doing it. And then for my YouTube channel would come to a stop. Even if I knew that, and and to be honest, I that probably would generate me more subscribers. I'd probably get loads more interest if I just sat down with a camera and I did a video showing people how I draw and all my tools, all my equipment, and all that kind of stuff. But it would it would depress the air, I just couldn't do it. I would feel stuck and I just well, the whole thing is making me shudder, so I wouldn't do it, even though I know it would probably generate loads and tons of subscribers. So what I'm trying to say is you've got to find a way to make, if you want to continue with YouTube, you've got to find a way to make YouTube work for you. So so it could be that you, you know, rather than saying, what does YouTube want me to make, you have to you have to ask yourself, you know, what exactly would I enjoy sharing? It could just be quiet moments in in the studio. It just might be, you know, a quiet moment of you taking people around some local art galleries. It could be, you know, it could be if you're interested, you could show people the process of how you put together a certain piece if that's what you want to do. It's personal to you, you know, but you've got to figure out what it is that makes makes it exciting to you. Okay, so that's that is something that because you've already got a YouTube channel, I do think it is worth you taking a little bit more time to you know talk about that. But I don't necessarily think YouTube is the way that you're going to get people to well, you could get people to your website, I'm sure you could, but whether it's the most direct way of selling marketing your work, I'm not sure. Again, I still think Instagram is probably the best way to do that, and I know that you've got some resistance to that, but again, I think it's worth looking at why that is and how you could possibly make it work for you, you know, rather than I should do this on Instagram, I should post six carousels a week or whatever the latest buzzy thing is. You know, you think, well, what actually can I do and what would I enjoy doing it? I think it comes down to that really, Sophie, for you. It's like, what do I actually enjoy doing? Because whatever you enjoy doing, you will naturally do more of. You know, it it makes sense. Right, where am I now? Okay, sad. Um, right, also, um, I think you need to look at your websites really carefully. You know, you need to make sure that your website, as soon as you land on your website, it needs to be clear what it is the website is about and who you are as Sophie. And you know, everything needs to be clear, really easy to navigate. And I always think, you know, having a really nice about me page or uh, you know, just a kind of little bit more information about the person behind the website is always a really nice way because I do think people you know like to know that they're buying from a real artist with a real sort of story behind it. So, you know, look at that. Are your photographs good enough? Is it coherent? Is it clear? Is it easy to buy? What's the customer journey like through the through your website? You know, all of these things can be tightened, you know. I I know that. I mean, you know, I'm constantly thinking about, I mean, I haven't I need to focus a bit more on my website. I mean, I I'm pretty good at it. I am pretty good at kind of making sure it's up to date, but there's definitely things that I could fine-tune with mine, but it needs to be something ongoing and it needs to be easy for you to update it. It needs to, you know, it needs to be a thing that is constantly evolving. Um, and then you know, getting in getting an email list. I think I've talked about this before. Try and get your email list up, you know, even if you've only got five subscribers, one of those people might buy $300 worth of work, you know. So so every single email subscriber you've got is gold. Okay, so that the the more you can build up your email list, the better, without a question of adult. But you have to be sure that whatever marketing tool you choose, you are willing to do it consistently, and that means liking what it is that you, you know, enjoying the whole process of doing it. Right, because like I've said before, said it four minutes ago, whatever, you don't enjoy doing it, you won't do it, and therefore it's redundant. You've got to find a way that works for you and step away from what you think you should do. Okay, right, Sophie. For your homework, I want you to make two lists. The first is things I am willing to do consistently to help people find my work, okay? And I want you to be really honest with that. Yeah, not what you think you should do, not what you think Instagram says you should be doing, you know. And maybe it is one YouTube video a month, maybe it's uh email out to your news, your uh subscribers, you know, maybe it's uh occasional uh uh craft fairs, whatever it is, it's got to be something that you feel you can do consistently, and then another list of things I'm I'm giving myself permission to stop doing. Okay, so it could be that you decide that YouTube isn't for you, right? Fine, YouTube isn't the thing, okay. Craft fairs, if it really isn't for you, craft fairs aren't your thing, but just list them down, you know, and then for the next three months, I just want you to choose things. One choose these two things, one place where people where new people can discover you, and then one way of keeping in touch with people who like your work, right? So that could be a newsletter, that could be a YouTube video, you know, that is a little bit more kind of aimed at pulling people over, subscribing to your email list. I mean, I know a lot of YouTubers always say hit subscribe, or uh if you want more information, visit my website. I mean, I know certain YouTube videos embed that kind of promotional stuff within it, if you want to do that, absolutely. But the problem is, is I don't think you're trying, I don't think it is that you're not trying hard enough. I feel like you're putting your energy into things that you don't really enjoy doing. So I think it's time for you to really get granular about what it is that you don't mind doing and that you do sort of enjoy doing and spend more time doing that, right? You know, how can I build a creative career, creative business around ways of sharing my work that I can actually live with. Yeah, okay. I think I think that's about everything I want to say, Sophie. Listen, best of luck, and uh let me know how you get on. Okay, right, moving on. Anne-Marie. Anne-Marie writes in with a dilemma about procrastination, tiredness, and trying to work out when she genuinely feels the need to rest and when she is simply getting in her own way. She writes that she teaches art and after a busy week of giving so much of her creative energy to other people, she often finds that she has very little, very little lift, very, very little lift, very little left of her own to create her own work, her own drawings. And sometimes she knows that she's simply mentally exhausted. She has heard the advice, just do 10 to 15 minutes, but there are days when even that feels too much. At other times, though, she feels that something else is going on. She starts judging the drawing before she's even started it. She puts pressure on herself to make something good and then starts avoiding, then basically avoid starting altogether. She wonders whether the real challenge is finding a balance between self-discipline and compassion. How do you know when you genuinely need to stop and rest? And when do you actually need to give yourself a bit of a push and get started? Anne-Marie also asks me about my own experience. How do I balance teaching and coaching with making my own work? Does teaching ever fill my creative cup or can it leave me with nothing left for myself? And also she's interested in how I manage to fit in a run every morning and whether that routine is something I have consciously built over time. Okay, right. So I think you've identified the heart of your dilemma really well, Anne-Marie, because I think there's two very different things that can almost look identical from the outside. You know, one is I'm genuinely exhausted and I have nothing left to give. And the other is I'm avoiding doing what I want to do because I think that I will already, I won't like it already, or I'm judging what it's like already. So you're kind of putting yourself off before you even start. You know, and I think in both cases the result is the same. You know, you don't turn up, you don't do the drawing. And I think they often obviously it we're we're talking very simplistically here, aren't we? Because I think that there will be days when you are absolutely genuinely exhausted and you have nothing left to give. And then there will be days where you know you are avoiding it, where you have got a little bit left in the tank, but you are avoiding it and you will start making excuses why you're not doing it. Um, you know, but but teaching is exhausting, it is exhausting, and I think we can be really hard on ourselves because I do think there is this narrative that you know you can just do a few minutes and you need to keep showing up and to keep the habit going. And I and I understand that, and I you know, it's something that I talk about a lot. And I I often think that when we have a really busy life and you know we feel exhausted, there is that narrative that comes along and says just stop. Just stop, put the TV on, watch some Netflix. However, I I often think that sometimes actually doing something gives you a little bit more energy, you know, it's a bit like when you don't want to go to the gym and you get yourself there and you feel so much better when you're in the gym or you've done that class. So, but it is a balance, isn't it? It's a balance between whether you are absolutely genuinely exhausted or whether actually doing it will make you feel better. And I think possibly more often than not, doing it will make you feel better. But I almost feel like you've set yourself such high a standard that you know, even just starting a drawing feels insurmountable because it's almost like you know, you need the drawing to be good, and that's going to put anybody off, you know. So I almost feel like you just need to lower the bar a bit with this, Anne-Marie. You know, it's a bit like when, and I've said again, I probably said this before, you know, in yoga people who are into yoga and they just say they turn up to their mat and maybe it's just for five minutes, and I think that's the important thing. I don't think you need to sit there and do 10 minutes of drawing a day, but maybe what you what would be really helpful is you know, just sitting with your sketchbook and just just doing a quick something in the sketchbook, just a quick doodle, just a quick loose drawing of something, you know, touching that sketchbook, just feeling connected to that sketchbook. I mean, you talk about drawing, I don't know whether it's sketchbook drawings, I don't know what the form of your practice takes, but I do think just having that sketchbook around and touching it and having it with you, and just maybe just writing down some ideas or just something whereby you you you connect to it is really helpful for you. Because I almost feel like these two ways that you are thinking are becoming, you know, it it sounds to me as if it's either one or the other, and actually I think it's a bit of both, really. I think there are it's a bit of both, and I think they're kind of sort of feeding into one another and becoming quite hard to unpick. Okay, right. I'm sort of changing my thoughts about this as I'm going, as I'm thinking about this. Um, that's why I'm sort of hesitating a little bit. I mean, let's talk about let's talk about teaching. So yeah, I really hear you. Um I I I but I have never taught in a school five days a week. I mean, I've taught in a school, I used to teach at the Brit School and I taught there three days a week or two and a half days a week, and I was exhausted, you know, I was exhausted, and I don't know how my colleagues ever did five days a week. Um, so I I don't think I have, you know, I don't have the experience of of teaching consistently at that level for the amount of time that you have. So I feel it's a bit redundant of me to kind of almost sort of comment on that. Um, but I can talk about my teaching experience and how it does leave me. So I tend to teach in short, sharp bursts. Um and now it's all you know, I pick and choose what I do, and I've you know, I've built this life that I can actually, you know, balance my uh teaching with my own creative life. So, but yes, there are days when I'm teaching a teaching workshop and I've got absolutely nothing left, you know, it's particularly if it has been a challenging class or you know, that it's a particularly difficult, complex thing that I'm teaching. Absolutely. Um, but I would never say that teaching by itself fills my creative cup, not at all. I love it, I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. I love teaching. In fact, I've just had a creative coaching session this morning with uh a creative who is uh running her first etching workshop, and I was really excited about you know telling her the best way to do things and to structure it. And I I love doing I do I love teaching, but absolutely no, it doesn't fill my creative cup like making my own work does. Um I think what teaching does for me, I love interacting with people, I love getting, I love exchanging ideas, I like just talking about. I mean, I don't see that many people in my life, I live a very solitary life here, you know, and that enables me to connect with people, and I just love helping people discover, you know, different ways of of making work. Um, and it also energizes me because I do want to then get on with my own work, you know. I feel excited often when I finish a batch of teaching because I'm now hungry to get on with my own stuff. Um but I think one of the important things I can say to you, Anne Marie, here is I Would be you know, I would say touching your sketchbook every day in some shape or form, connecting to that, because I think that helps you to connect your own creativity. But I would also say rather than trying to squeeze in 10 minutes, five minutes here, here and there, which actually in on paper seems the most most achievable way to fit it into your schedule, I would look at your create your week as a whole and say, you know, where does my work, where could my work sit into my week? Because I think if drawing happens after everything else, after teaching, after admin, you're asking your drawing to survive on very little. So I would look at your wig and think about where could you fit, you know, a couple of hours in in the week, whereby that is your protected space. That is a schedule, you know, I because I almost feel like it's a scheduling problem, this Anne-Marie. I do feel like it's a scheduling problem. You're you're trying to make you've you you've you've seen this way of everybody's like, well, slot it in here and there, but actually that method isn't working for you. So maybe it does need to be, you know, you do need to be more specific about where it can fit in your week. Which then brings me on to your question about me and running. Okay, so I've been running now, I've been living here for 11 years, and I pretty much run every single morning that I've I've lived here, but apart from when I was teaching in London and I had to get up really early. Um it's non-negotiable. I get my I just get up, have a coffee, and I go, and I run for four miles every morning with Rob, with Rob. That's my ex-boyfriend, with Marple. Um, we go very slowly. I'm not interested in running fast. I mean, it's a very, very slow run. And but I schedule my day around that almost because for me that is the most precious time in my day. You know, it's where I sort my head out, it's where I make the lists, you know. I'm stopping, I'm making a list of everything I need to do today. I'm voice noting myself, I'm I'm listening to my Japanese. It's just the most amazing space for me in the morning and it sets my day up. But I've scheduled my day around that. You know, I don't start coaching until probably, well, my first coaching session is never, it's never earlier than 10. Most likely it's 11. So my you know, my run fits around my my way, my week, my day fits around my run in in a sense, you know. So I think that's what I'm talking about. I think it's a scheduling problem for you. I do think you need to schedule some time for you and for your work rather than trying to slot it in. Because I just think if you try and slot it in, it's going to get pushed to the back. Um because I do feel like your practice deserves your good energy, not the bit that you've got left. Okay. I think that's the thing here. Right. So for your homework, Anne-Marie, I don't think it's helpful for me to set you a daily drawing challenge. I want you to spend one week noticing every time you sit down and draw, or every time you you intend to draw and you don't, I want you to write down these one of these two things. It's either I needed rest or I was avoiding starting, because I do think that would be helpful information for you for a start. So just take one week where you have the intention and you don't do it, and then you make the note of am I really that too am I really too tired? Or is it those voices in my head that are telling me that even if I start, it's going to be terrible and what's the point in doing it, and all that kind of stuff. Okay. I just want you to notice for the first week. And then I want you to try and look at your week as a whole and think about where you can fit a uh a two-hour session or something like that. And I don't mean two hours of drawing, I just mean you know, two hours where you have given yourself that clear space to sit and be with your thoughts and with your sketchbook and with your pencils or whatever, whatever form it takes. You know, you might only be drawing actively for 10 minutes, it doesn't matter, but you have reserved those two hours for yourself, okay? So so that you're actually anchor anchoring it in the week rather than just trying to fit it in around everything else. Right. I hope that helps. Let me know how you get on. Like I said, it's always lovely to hear from people when I spend the time answering your dilemmas as to how you've all got on. Okay, lovelies. Right. Um, we're off. What time is it now? Quarter to one, quarter to two. I'm very thirsty. I need a drink. Um, we're sending our love. And as always, I need your dilemmas. Please send them in to thecreative couchpod at gmail.com. Uh, I'd be really helpful, I'd be really grateful to have more dilemmas to to get my teeth stuck into. I have had some good good uh uh good responses this week. I I feel like uh my cup has been full filled. She looks like she's stretching and ready to ready to go and have a snack. Um listen, we're sending love. Just a reminder there will be no podcast next week, but normal service will resume uh the week after. And do come along and follow us on our trip down to Sussex and to the Isle of Wight. I'll be making um different videos about that. So all right, lovelies, listen, sending love. Take care, and I will see you soon. Right, stop recording.