Still Carrying It: Healing the Wounds COVID Left Behind | Episode 7

Years after the pandemic, many of us are still carrying grief, fear, and emotional exhaustion that never fully healed. In this deeply personal conversation, host Safraz Bacchus sits down with Jensen Jones — chaplain at New York Presbyterian Queens and former hospice spiritual counselor — to talk about what COVID took from us beyond the physical. From losing a beloved colleague on the front lines to supporting patients and families through unimaginable goodbyes, Jensen shares how the ministry of presence, naming our grief, and allowing ourselves to cry can be the first steps toward healing. Whether you lost someone, couldn't say a proper farewell, or are still carrying a quiet weight you haven't been able to name — this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Greetings and peace and love be with you all, and welcome to SB Life Institute Podcast, where we inspire, serve, and build meaningful conversation to heal hearts, to strengthen communities and bring people together. Today's discussion uh I'll say is deeply personal and incredibly important. And we are talking about healing after COVID, coping with loss, trauma, and emotional recovery. Many of us, we had family members that we have lost and have experienced that timeframe of the COVID and impacted them in a very negative way. Many people survive physically, but internally, they are still carrying grief, they're still carrying fear, exhaustion, there is a sense of loneliness because I know for a fact there are those who have lost many family members from the immediate family members, anxiety, and in addition to this, emotional fatigue. Today I'm very honored uh to join with someone who has spent um years walking beside people during some of their life's most difficult moments. And he is no other than Jensen, and uh he is a devoted follower of the Christian faith and currently serves as a chaplain at New York Presbyterian Queens, and where he provides spiritual and emotional support for patients. And before that, he worked as a spiritual counselor for one of New York's leading hospice programs, uh, where also uh he demonstrated what it means to support people in the last moment. Um, I'm honored to have him here with us. I want to uh congratulate him on his 10-month-old daughter, who is completely taking over all of his free time, his schedule, his um, you know, and honestly, uh his heart, so to speak, as well. So I want to thank him. Thank you so much for having your hands filled with your family and work for us to join this conversation. Welcome, my friend and my brother. It's an honor to know you, work alongside you, see what an amazing person you are, and for us to join this discussion. Um, I just want to say, you know, we we are talking about COVID, and many people think about the mask. We think about the mask, we think about the vaccines, hospitals, and the lockdowns. But as chaplains, I'll I'll say that there we are spiritual caregivers, right? And we witness something deeper. Uh, what do you think people are still carrying uh emotionally after COVID? What do you think people are still carrying with them? Because I know having conversations with many across the religious spectrum, that they always reflect on the loss and the mere fact that sometimes they distance themselves from talking about this, that I see from what they're saying, from what they're not seeing as well, that this is basically taking a toll on them despite years have passed. Can you shed some light uh on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, I mean the one thing that comes to mind quickly is when I was in hospice, the we were just figuring out what this COVID-19 was really about, what is this coronavirus and how does it affect us, right? Because we're in the front lines as chaplains and we're going into people's homes as well. Like there's home care hospice as well. So we were really worried, but also wanting to be present for those families and loved ones. So unfortunately, we had one member of our team that passed away from COVID. And it was such a devastating loss for us as a company and uh, you know, it just in personally as well, because I knew him very well. And um, he was such a big light and huge personality, and it left a void, and it continues to leave a void in in our community. Um and so to process that, it was it wasn't talked about for a while, but randomly one nurse was like, after one year, like we uh we gave this moment of silence when he passed away, but after one year, it's like this is this is his one year anniversary. And then we all just came together and like just had a beautiful, like a it wasn't even planned to be, but it was like a memorial service about his life and his what he was like his life was about, and which was selfless, which was like like his hand was always open to help another one who was in need. And so we were just like reflecting on stories, we were laughing together, and just for someone to say and to acknowledge that I'm missing this person, and there is like I'm still thinking about him after a year. It was so powerful to even admit that. And first thing to know is to admit, right? Like, yeah, first thing to know is like wow, like above all else, to name that feeling is a very powerful thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Yeah. Thank you so much. And that is so powerful that you're seeing this is a colleague of yours, right? Someone that you worked with that was like families. You know, thinking about what you're saying, uh I'm reflecting on people that I know from within our congregation or families who have lost, you know, father, child, have lost close people that are closely knitted to them. And while they were trying to figure out what was exactly happening, that you you're saying something very important, that you're still trying to figure out what was COVID, and that you're hearing all these uh um all these discussions, all this thought process, all these, you know, thought processes of what it is actually, and then you have different information, people trying to navigate through those information, conflicting information too. Yeah, even conflicting information, conflicting information, and at the same time have to cope have to cope with the loss of the loved ones. And um is there anything that that stood out for you during that particular time, you know, like in terms of when I say like in terms of your work and dealing with people in the like probably you were in the hospice and you know, in terms of people within your congregation, anything that impacted you in your congregation um that you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, we had I mean, yeah, we had several people in even in my congregation, and even the larger like Indian community that I'm a part of that um we suffered a lot. A lot of my friends, their their parents passed away, and losing a loved one leaves a void. No matter what, it leaves a void, and if it goes unaddressed, like it almost eats at you, you know, and you slowly lose a part of who you are because that loved one is part of your identity, whether you like it or not. Even if it's a healthy or not healthy relationship, it's a part of your identity, and it's so important to talk about and discuss it. And so I made in an effort because of my own life and losing loved ones before even my father. Like, I know how important it is to take a moment to just be with a person. Like the ministry of presence, right? In special chaplaincy, it's very important. You didn't even have to say much, just for you being there, present with that individual who's grieving, who's experiencing that loss, is such a profound experience. And when they're ready to talk about it, they will. And they 100% will. And and it's just uh it's like a powerful ministry. And just to be there for someone who's grieving I you know, firsthand, even for my life, is it's so healing. It's very healing and it's refreshing. And it takes time. It's not a you know one-day thing, and it's not like you know, we talk about it for 20 minutes, okay, you're good, you're fine. It's a continual process. It's like grief is waves, right? It it some jet waves are gentle, some waves are crashing. It's a continual process, it's a journey, but having people in your life that that you can come to for counsel, for advice, for just just to sit with, to laugh with, and to share those memories with is very meaningful. And I'm grateful for those individuals in my life. And I likewise help, you know, make it a make it a thing to make sure that I'm there for others as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Thank you so much for sharing. I can sense in your voice when talking about this, that how uh this is impact uh probably has impacted you thinking about it. You know, sometimes we we don't think of something when we start talking about it, it creates it creates this deep emotion and it brings back all these memories. But I I think this is this is one of the ways of healing as well, you know, like for those who are listening that will they will recall their struggles and their hardship that they endured. There is a lot of people that have unresolved grief often hides uh in inside of them. And I have seen that basically uh in my community and with people that I know, that there was a segregation between husband and wife, or between children and their parent, and you know that there was a segregation that they will fear to enter into the very home, right? Fear to enter in the very home, and then you hear that someone pass, having to deal with that select at the time of the burial, five persons, ten persons within the family to be at the funeral home or to do the last last rite. So even in the last moment with the regulation that they will do the preparation of the loved one, and sometimes you're not able to be there, yeah, and they're very minimal preparation because of the nature of the illness and the sickness and the pandemic, and it will take them to the burial site, and only ten persons or less, how do you select? So thinking of that, that even bidden farewell between a husband and a wife, a child, and the parent, yeah, that there is so much unresolved heart that is in in the heart of many family members dealing with this, right? And how can we help those who are going through that, right? Because I see community leaders are are trying their best to find ways and means to help people as they go through this process, right? The process whether uh I was sharing with you before we started the session of a particular community that actually thought it fit to somehow plant it a tree where people can go there in the park, and that tree is a representation of the loss. And the beauty of this is that I think of it uh from a deep angle because life uh there is life, the tree represents life, growth, um gives hope, it gives shade, it gives shelter. And they see it fit to plant that tree to represent a very difficult time in their life of loss. That that's that's their sense of comfort, and that's what I see that the community come together to plant this tree as a source of comfort, but at the same time, that that pain is dear. There are different ways and means. How can someone lean into their faith to help them? Maybe you can share, share that from a universal perspective that uh coping in terms of using your faith in helping people to cope with this. And what the other means that we can probably help, briefly, if you can share as a chaplain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Well, first thing is I death is I think first and foremost, we hide away from death. Even in hospice, like it's such a negative term that is used. And so first I believe that as a community we need to discuss that a little bit more and what that means. And to understand that death is just a natural counterpart to life. There's a beginning and an end, you know? Uh you know, Jung kind of described it as life having two halves. One is building, you know, your identity, your career, family, you know, yeah, your represent how you were represented to those around you. But the second half, there must be a point where you start looking inward. And like you when you start seeking meaning and your purpose of life and and how you prepare for your end as well, and what legacy you leave behind. Um, because I know many many adults, especially when they're nearing the end of life, there are a few that have a difficult time accepting their death. Or because because they feel like, you know, they never fully finished the first half. There's something missing that needs to be completed. So we need so that gives me an opportunity to say, all right, what is something that you feel that you have left to do on this earth that you that is missing? And how how can we bridge that gap? You know, because once we uh understand death and what it signifies, it's a sacred thing and it deepens your gratitude, it clarifies you know, what is the meaning of life, it reduces fear, right? And it increases compassion. And you know, accepting morality is one of the most like important steps towards like understanding yourself and your wholeness. So I feel like that should be in a teacher of itself. Even COVID and you know, we we're seeing the losses around us, it's not just, oh my gosh, what a terrible thing, but it should be a teacher of how we as a community has, you know, as we as a humanity are there for each other. Because even in COVID, how many heroes do we have? How many people are we celebrating being on the front lines, being there for each other? How we in Zoom meetings like this, like really have like discussions with each other, you know, even though we couldn't be present. Um, you know, and once we see death as a teacher and not an enemy, that I believe, you know, will create that humility and wisdom and you know, gratefulness for what we have, recognizing like this kind of health that we wear while many are physically suffering and to be present for them, you know, supporting those individuals which are present, it's it's a powerful thing. With um with with faith, you know, it gives a story big enough to hold their pain. Because because you know, it refrains that their suffering as a larger part of their journey.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

And it gives language for not, you know, faith provides hope, not denial. Yes, you know, you know, that like hope is about is not about the cure, but about the transition to the just the next life. It's about meaning, it's about presence and peace ultimately. So once we have faith, we have like that hope for reconciliation, we have hope for spiritual continuity, we have uh hope that this person's life mattered in the grand scheme of what God is doing in our midst.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

And uh one of the things it's so it's so true that you're saying that we reflect on our faith and and about life and death in the whole. And we have such so much in common in terms of our our spiritual path. And it tells us that this life, this life basically is not forever, it's for a period of time, and then we transition. In that process, when we lose someone, uh when we lose someone, one of the things that comes to mind would be that there's a grief in process and not able to say during this particular time um goodbye and to say our goodbyes, and even to do that which we're comforted by, the last rites in the way we would like it to be done. I know that created a last lasting impact, but one thing I will say that there are things that happen in life that is not in our control.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

And um if we understand that, if our viewers understand it, if people in the whole that we put in our psyche, that uh there were so minimal things that happened during the COVID that was literally not in your control and not in my control, because if we wanted uh differently, and we had a power to do differently, we would have done. Or we have the power to make those changes, we'd have done because of the connection of the people that we that we have. So when things happen and it's out of our control, like the COVID, like the separation, like the uh lack of saying proper goodbyes, or not able to even do in our rituals in the way we want to do our rituals, that we hold on to the positives that God has given us, our loved ones, and we were able to build memories with them, and we hold on to those. Those memories will somehow live on, like the memories of of your your colleague and your your your friend, um uh will live on and you would cherish those m memories and the memories of the the people that you have lost or have suffered during this particular time will always live on. And I'll say I'll say to uh our listeners that while we're discussing um coping the coping um with uh you know after trauma of of COVID, that we we rely on our faith, but also we rely on the the blessing of time that we had um had with these loved ones and what we were able to able to do with them and what we were able to somehow um build with them. We hold on to those and it will it will carry us a very far away and talking about their legacy or talking about what what they did in terms of their lives and their choices. I think speaking about the people that we l that we we lock through in this time will also somehow have their memories uh alive and it will help us in so many so many different so many different ways. The the other thing I want to ask, right, would be uh the covet taught us to appreciate appreciate um the people that is in our lives. And uh people stop checking in um on their their family members um sometimes and checking in with their loved ones. I'll I'll probably say to you that maybe we can emphasize on the importance of s uh of spending time with the people that we love, our children, our family, our family members, and to somehow build build those precious moments because life has a way of throwing a lot of car carve balls at us in so many different ways. So make sure that you spend valuable time with the people around you and ensure that we lean, as you said, lean into our faith, is by what faith faith you may um embrace or whatever faith you may um you you may believe in. What was your experience with with with individuals within the hospice setting? How was your work then? Maybe you can share something, some things about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, I mean, uh based on what you should also shared earlier, like COVID almost nor normalized isolation, right? Because when when people are sick, when they're going through a certain illness, we have like isolation protocols, right? So they can't you have to be in the room alone by yourself. And like even with young people, like they've just become normalized to just being alone and not even sharing what's going on through their minds, they're scrolling on social media or you know, just being distracted. Like COVID really taught us to be distracted and not being present with what we're experiencing right now. And so even in the hospice setting, like eventually we were granted the opportunity, especially to be present for those who are suffering, you know, who are in their last final moments when they have literally no one there with them. Like their families are in a different state, and you know, they are just crying out, like calling for their loved ones, and unfortunately, like there's not much we can do. And just being present with them, like making their intentional visits to be present with them as much as we can was was so profound. And we I'm just so grateful and humbled for that opportunity to do that. And it and it teaches you that you know, relationship and even reconciliation, because there's a lot of broken relationships. As well. And that comes up during the dying process. And and faith gives you permission to say, I forgive you, knowing that there's a higher power that's bigger than all of that. And it reduces guilt, it reduces regret and allows patients and families to like experience emotional completion. That's like a healing moment at the end of the day. Where just like, thank you for this moment. Thank you for being present. Thank you for just not to having someone to talk to because I am so lonely. And you know, when you're in isolation, your mind can go drift into various different ways. And and someone to just bring it in to be present. You know, i for me, like when I lost my dad, I I became the opposite of healthy coping, you know, like I just wanted to be alone, I didn't want anyone to talk to, and these deep dark thoughts just to come in. And it was easy, it was comfortable just to be isolated and not really reaching out to anyone. But those people in my life that force their way in and just continually like saying, Okay, I'm here, I'm available, I'm present for you.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

And you know in that it it makes a difference too, right? No, knowing that's the other side. You know in that it makes a great difference. And yeah, I I think uh not to interject, but whenever we go through trauma or hardship, someone may need their space, but just letting them know that you're there, they're not alone. While you have your space, that we're here, we're looking on, and we're here as a as a pillar in your life.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And you know, someone to lean on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Someone to lean on. And I think in the con in in the context of COVID, that there are many who have physically healed, but emotionally they're not, and still they go through this mental trauma, an emotional trauma. And it's oh if if you recognize that it's important for you to say to them, right? That you're here for them. If you know, let them know that that you you know what they're going through, and that somehow you're there too. You may not know what they what they're experiencing because people emo uh personal emotional journey is different and they deal with it differently, but at least knowing their presence, yeah it's it's quite important it's quite important.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I think also like there, especially in I would say in our communities, there's also negative emotions people put, which is not negative, but you know, sadness, anger, fear has a negative connotation to it. Sometimes we don't allow you know people that we know to experience that. For example, which reminded me I had a patient um who was going into surgery and everything was prepared. And as she was going in, she had a panic attack. Like the surgeons were ready to go, but she had a panic attack and wanted out. Like, I want done. I'm I'm not having the surgery, I just want out of it. So everyone's confused. Like, what's happening? What's going on? You know, but eventually they brought her back to the room. The doctor called me, like, can you go speak with this patient? She's going through something, but we don't know what it is. And then uh, so I go in and then and she sees I have the chaplain. She's like, Oh, they sent the chaplain? I'm definitely dying now, right? Oh my god. Right. But uh, no, I'm here to check in on you, what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

But after it happened so many times, yeah, I can because we're not the angels that were trying to navigate. We're still trying to navigate as to what is happening to them, and people will not say to them to raise any fear or anxiety. They will probably look how they're communicating information. And I want to take a moment and say, you know, hats off, positive shout out to our healthcare workers or chaplains, our doctors, who literally are actually the um the heroes in this entire story, because while everyone was segregating and also religious community leaders, I'm I'm telling I'm gonna tell you uh in a bit why I say this, is because while everyone was trying to safeguard themselves and rightly so being confined, file following the guidelines and separation and that type of thing, um, there were those doctors that put on their capes in the morning, those heroes, and they walk in right there, you know, putting their lives at danger. We have lost many. And also, one of the things that I remember uh is that the the transporters as well, that there were times that we will have to go to the transporters and speak with them because why it was difficult for them, it was challenging for them being there for the transporters, seeing all this death and dying and having to transport them and then be witnessing uh this emotional outburst and cry and we and you know I don't still try to comprehend that how they were able to cope with that, right? And as chaplains, we rec recognize that, we recognize that, yeah, and we try to you know say to them that we are here, we prayed with them, we supported them, we offered them that support. But I know for a fact that this will have lasting, very lasting um emotional impact on them. Just before, you know, I ask you to share your closing thoughts. Uh uh a few things I want to mention that during the COVID, you know, there were so many changes that we had to make. People had to make a lot of changes, whether it's in their personal family life, even into the uh the spiritual spaces, like places of worship, a lot of changes were made. Um just uh I can recall we compile books of prayers and send it out of WhatsApp, sharing food for people that were scared to go to the grocery, grocery shops. And in one day, I I can recall having to be there at the burial site from the morning all the way in the evening, waiting, waiting as a spiritual leader for two, three funerals to come. At one time we did like nine funeral uh and last rite funeral prayer, uh what we refer to as the Janazah prayer at the at the burial site. Burial site, yeah. At the burial site.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

And and you know how did you cope with that after after those those days?

SPEAKER_02 28:40

It was traumatic. I think I got sick during that time. You know, I don't know what was it, but um just sharing this with with you and those who will be listening, that I I you know these pictures starts popping up on your Google, your Google, Google Drive after two years, three years, four years. So last week I'm watching my phone and I saw some pictures that actually literally popped up. Um if I find it, I'm gonna just show it to you. Uh popped up on my phone, and it was pictures with marks, red marks, indentation on my skin, my faces, like some allergy I develop during that particular time. But I we often ask ourselves, you know, God place you, God place you, Jensen, and and certain people in a place at the most difficult time. When you look back, let's say 20 years from now, and your kid asks you, your baby, that is a baby now, you will still be a baby then uh for you, right? What have what have you basically done during that particular time as you shared with your child about COVID? You can always say uh to your child, for example, you know, like I was there, I was there in a hospice setting, I was there in a hospital, I help. Because this is gonna be in the history that there will be, you know, people reflecting on this and this information will be somehow passed on. Uh, what would it what how can you live with yourself, knowing that you have certain skill sets and you you choose to be self-centered rather than being there using your support, you know. And I'm not saying this in in a negative way, but I I I thought of my legacy, like as a spiritual leader that advocates of helping people, uh self-sacrifice in that type of thing. I I I saw the necessity of going and lending that.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

It's through your actions. Yeah? It's through your actions, not just words.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Not just words, yeah. So I think um looking back at those pictures pop up, it brings back so much memories to me, like so much memories. And you know, we we remember those challenging times and you know, we're thankful that we pass through it and we have something to something to reflect on and and draw valuable life lessons from it, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Valuable life lessons from it. One thing I'll I'll ask you as we conclude, what what what advice uh do you have for people who um are still griefing despite years have passed?

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah. I will tell you, um, like continuing that story that I was sharing with um with that lady. She came back when she said, Oh, it's a chaplain, it's here, like I'm definitely dying. Yeah. But it after talking with her, I no one knew what was going on. But after talking with her, she was just she eventually shared that she lost her daughter during the COVID. And and she was just grieving her loss. And she was her daughter was the one that was always with her during the you know, the doctor visits and the hospital visits. Like she was always there, and she was there for I believe it was like a hip surgery, but um, but she was just grieving her presence. There was a void in that room, and it was her daughter. And she was sharing how no one's letting her cry. No one lets her grieve. Just be strong. But she just like, I don't want to be strong right now. I want to cry. I want to grieve my daughter. And she was just in tears, and I just joined in with her, you know. I felt that, you know, personally too. It's just like, you know what? You can grieve, you know, because you grieved because you loved. Yeah. And and just allowing that and it naming that, like she that sadness and that and that fear of going to the next steps of what the surgery will look like. But come to find out, you know, we did some motivate motivational interviewing about like, what are the next steps? What will the surgery do for you? And she was like, I can be there for her children, my daughter's children. She's she's taking care of them now. And so, like, at least with the surgery, I can be more independent and be there for my grandchildren. And just and she found the courage and the strength herself by acknowledging her grief, acknowledging her sadness, acknowledging that she's lost a loved one to be there for her grandchildren. And so I would say, like, don't run away from sadness, don't run away from grief. Acknowledge it, accept it. It's part of life.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

That's so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah. And and there's growth in that too. And it will and empower you to what God has for you next.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah. Um I wanna thank thank you so much for you know joining in joining in um joining into today's discussion. And uh I'll say that um this will be something that left something that has left uh uh an impact on many of us. And we will always remember COVID-19 and and its impact that it had in society. And we remember those people who stood out as heroes and fought like heroes and give give up a lot just to save lives. We remember the people that were dear and near to us that we have lost, that we could not have proper goodbyes. Um we will remember remember our mothers and our fathers and our brothers and our sisters, we remember those people that we still question ourselves where they find that strength from to cope basically with uh you know with their loss and their grief. But I'll I'll say that we learn, as you said, that we learn from these moments. We we reflect in these moments, we learn from them, and I think it strengthen us, our character, trend strengthen our personality um to probably be a better person and to be appreciative. One of the things that I've learned um from this that within the twinkling of an eye, of twinkling of your eye, things can change. What was normal becomes abnormal. Someone is with you today that you love and tomorrow they're no longer there.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

This is this is myself and Mr. Salim. He was a member of my community and he died, passed away. But he uh we always remember him how he basically somehow dedicated a lot of his time and energy in serving people during the COVID time. Also, this was myself, you know, like um during the COVID helping, you know, like and I I have a lot of pictures that you know where we were basically masked up, being out there helping distribution of food and helping people, and we will remember those moments, and um we understand what love is during that time too, right, Jensen? Jensen.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

I mean, that's why we got up and went outside in the first place, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah. And so one of the lessons we will say we learned about about love, how important it is for us to show that unconditional love. And that love, no barrier, religious barrier. The person that was fighting for your life would probably be uh uh a Jewish doctor or a Muslim doctor or a Christian doctor or or something of that nature. The nurses that give up their the comfort of their home were probably from an African American, not our white white person, Caucasian, like with all the segregation that we're seeing today that artificial segregation that during the COVID time there was not to love each other. Those bars didn't mean anything, period. Exactly. Nothing. Right. And maybe we can learn from that um not forget what we have and not to forget how how important it is for us to love and not to hate.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Right. Uh thank you so much, Jensen. Um, may God be with you. I really want to uh thank you so much for sharing this. Do not forget to join and subscribe to our uh YouTube channel, and uh this is SB Life Institute Podcast. Um I'm on uh YouTube, in addition to this, Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe. I really appreciate it. Please subscribe and share, and you know, encourage others um to listen and also to subc subscribe and share. Note that this is a safe space where we discuss um matters of importance, emotional well-being, spiritual well-being, and also societal issues, uh, to better our communities and better our society, looking beyond race, looking beyond religion, and even looking beyond the artificial segregations that people often erect. Thank you so much. May God be with you. Love you all, in peace and love.