Mindful Humanship
Drawing from their work in mental health and equine-facilitated therapy, they share personal stories of how horses reflect our inner truth, challenge emotional masks, and help create a sense of safety without judgment. This conversation also clears up common misconceptions about equine therapy and explains the deeper, trauma-informed work they practice.
Mindful Humanship
Partnerships, Trust, and the Courage to Stay
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, Amy Monea and Angie Payne explore the realities of partnerships and relationships, why they can feel so challenging, and what actually makes them work. Drawing from their own 10+ year partnership, they share honest insights on trust, communication, conflict, and the courage it takes to stay connected when things get hard.
From the very beginning of their relationship, Amy and Angie said “yes” before having all the answers, stepping into a partnership without fully knowing each other, but trusting the process. What started as a simple opportunity quickly became a deeply meaningful collaboration built over time.
They reflect on the intentional work that helped shape their foundation: understanding each other’s values, communication styles, emotional triggers, and needs. Through both smooth seasons and challenging moments, they reveal that strong relationships aren’t built on perfection, but on honesty, repair, and a willingness to have the hard conversations.
This episode also dives into one of the most common patterns that breaks relationships down, the tendency to stay silent. When things go unsaid, they don’t disappear… they build. And over time, they become bigger than they ever needed to be.
At the heart of this conversation is trust, the kind that isn’t instant but built slowly through shared experiences, consistency, and showing up for each other again and again. It’s also about the unexplainable side of connection, the “something” that makes certain relationships feel aligned, safe, and like home.
In This Episode, you’ll explore:
- Why Relationships Are So Hard: Understanding why connection is often the biggest challenge people bring into therapy.
- Saying Yes Before You’re Ready: How their partnership began with trust instead of certainty.
- Building a Strong Foundation: The importance of values, communication, and emotional awareness in relationships.
- The Danger of Silence: Why avoiding conversations leads to bigger problems over time.
- Vulnerability & Safety: The moment a relationship becomes a space where you can truly be yourself.
- Trust Over Time: How trust is built slowly through actions, not words.
- Navigating Conflict: Learning to work through tension instead of avoiding it.
- Balancing Differences: How opposite personalities can strengthen a partnership.
- The Mystery of Connection: Why some relationships work in ways we can’t fully explain.
- Love Comes With Risk: The reality that meaningful relationships require courage and vulnerability.
“If you never want your heart broken, never get into a relationship… but is it worth it? 100% yes.”
May the horse always bring you home.
Follow Mindful Humanship
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulhumanship/
Mindful Humanship Book: https://a.co/d/96gsBL1
Follow the Hosts
Angie Payne
🔗 Website: https://www.equineenrichment.com
🔗 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/equineenrichment
Amy Monea
🔗 Website: https://www.heardwellness.com
🔗 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heardwellne55/
I think it was the moment that I realized that Amy was safe to be vulnerable with. That's a big deal in partnership is that you are safe to be vulnerable, that you trust the other person is not gonna walk away or leave, or the fears are that most of us have around relationships that we're just gonna stay in it and work through it.
SPEAKER_00There are moments where you are fiery, but it's different now where you'll like you own it and you're not so double like I'm feeling pretty hot right now, and then okay, let's go. It's usually not a conflict between us, but we usually talk about it earlier now before it becomes because I don't have red hair anymore.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Mindful Humanship Podcast with Amy Monia and Angie Payne. Is it possible that an animal, horses can lead us to be mindfully human? Join us as we discuss the wisdom of the horse and the impact they can have on our everyday lives. Our conversations are guided between the reins of connection and mental health. Welcome back to the Mindful Humanship Podcast. I'm Angie Payne and I'm Amy Mania. This is episode nine. Because six just came out. Yeah, seven and eight, seven recorded. Why was six scared of seven?
SPEAKER_00Why, Amy? Because seven, eight, nine. Oh my god. Anyways, today we're talking about partnerships. So relationships are super important here. Um, not relationships per se, but relationship. Um, our connection with um people, and oftentimes that's what we end up working on in therapy, uh, supporting clients with is how do we improve our relationships with uh other people and also with ourselves. So we spent the last two episodes talking a little bit about Angie, um, got her story. Angie interviewed me, kind of my story, got to know a little, hopefully a little bit about um the two of us that you might not have known. And today we want to talk about partnerships, um relationships, because they're not they're not for the faint of heart.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Relationships are probably the biggest thing that people come to therapy about because relationships are really hard. Any kind of relationship. Um, Amy and I have been in a business partnership relationship for the past 10 years now. And we can't really explain why it works so well, but it has worked well almost from the very beginning. We started out by being offered a contract with uh schools to offer equine assisted learning, EAL as it's called, which is not really what we do. However, we thought, yeah, sure, why not? Say yes to life, say yes to anything. Well, that's when we were our say yes to life. Say yes to life. That's right. And so we said yes, and um, it began kind of our business partnership. Now we didn't really know each other, and and the story is in the book, Mindful Humanship. Um, we didn't really know each other. Well, in fact, we didn't know each other at all, other than we were in the same program together. I had gone through it before Amy um went through it, but I was was still involved and uh kind of got to know her a little bit, but didn't really know who she was, what she was all about. I didn't know even that she was a therapist. And she came to me for a session. Were you deciding to go through the program at that point, or were you in the program?
SPEAKER_00I think I must have been in the program and I came to process like a fairly specific thing, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah um yeah. So she she comes for a session, forgets to tell me that she's a therapist. Thank God she did, because I would have been so nervous. But anyway, that was kind of the extent of our relationship. And then where I had my horses at the time, I was hosting a weekend core for the program that we were in. And Amy attended that.
SPEAKER_00So that's like a three and a half day weekend intensive where you um do your own work, practice your skills, all that kind of stuff. So gestalt-based, um, great program. It's in the book.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And during sometime during that weekend, I had um, I was in a place where I wasn't sure that I was in the right place to to run my business. Um, but really there was no other options. Um, my husband and I were in kind of looking for to buy a place so that I could do my work on my own place. We didn't really want to do that because we love where we live, all of that. And so it was a really kind of hard time for me figuring out what I was gonna do. Should I close my business down? Should I not do this? Well, if I didn't do it, where am I gonna do it? And I don't know, maybe it was a week or so later, maybe longer, I can't remember. But I get this phone call from this young lady, Amy Mania. And she said, I remember uh met you at your core, you were hosting. Yeah, you might not remember me. I was like, in your backyard, your husband made burgers, I remember your little guy running around and all of that. So I'm like, Yeah, I I know who you are. And so in Amy's humble way, she's like, My husband and I just bought this property and she was pregnant at the time. And so uh wanted somebody to come and use their facility um while she was on mat leave. You know, she's gonna pop out a baby and get right back to work, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00And like if you could use it for the couple weeks and I'm like out of commission, great, and I'll be back at it.
SPEAKER_01So um, so I was like, Yeah, sure, I'll come and have a look. Come have a look, see if you find it, see if it's a fit, might not be a fit, but um, and so I came to look and I'm friendly with my friend in the car, and we drove over the hill and I saw it. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's it. So I had had a vision of what my place was gonna be like. I had never considered that it might be the place, but it might not belong to me. I'd never considered that. But as I drove over the hill, I'm like, that's it, right there, that's it. But I wanted to be cool.
SPEAKER_00So saunters and like when Angie tries to act really casual. She does this saunter, she leans back and like saunters, learned that over the last 10 years.
SPEAKER_01And meanwhile, I'm like, um, and so Amy showed me around. Oh, I know it's not perfect, and I'm like, it's kind of perfect. But I stayed cool and said, Well, let me think about it. Think about take your time, let me know. No pressure, it's totally fine. One of the differences is Amy takes her time. I usually don't to make decisions. I'm just like, boom. So, anyway, uh, I think it was a day or so later, I phoned Amy and said, So, is it okay if I move my horses tomorrow?
SPEAKER_00She did, and the place, like the farm had not had horses for a year or two here. So, like the grass was like so tall, so beautiful. The horses went out, and like you could just see that they were like um they were up to their bellies. How I'd imagine like the ogopogo in the in, you know, like you just see like the top of the back going through the wall.
SPEAKER_01Because all you couldn't see their heads because their heads were just down munch, munch, munch. Yeah. And so I dropped my horses off and proceeded to go on two weeks' holidays and asked her if she would make sure my horses didn't die live.
SPEAKER_00And my husband was gone, and I was here by myself, and I'm like, no problem. Moving, you were moving, yeah, you were pregnant. Yeah, it was all new, right? And we moved and like it was it was just kind of wild. Such great stories. Like gophers were like on top of the deck running around the house, like outside the house. They'd moved into the there's a hot tub in the back. The gophers were living in the hot tub, they were everywhere, and the gopher got in the house, and it was just like wild. And um, yeah, yeah, just make sure the of this until a couple years old. No problem. Um, and then yeah, the little boy moved in, husband was gone, and just yeah, they did great.
SPEAKER_01They're happy. They were so happy, came back. Still, I mean, I move in the world very different from Amy. Um, it didn't become apparent until a little bit later that how different we moved in the world. Um, but for some reason we got along really well, even though we didn't know each other, we didn't see a lot of each other because you were pregnant and all of that.
SPEAKER_00I was doing better at like having a baby and resting and just taking care of myself and my kids. Um not that there's like a good way to do it or not, but I was doing it at a pace that was kinder to myself. So I wasn't trying to do everything, I wasn't seeing a million clients, I wasn't, you know, cutting the grass and doing like doing all of it. I was like a lot more realistic with my expectations of myself. And I was like, this wild lady from Crossfield is fine, it's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. So we did go through a process though around the time we started that school group, which I think was super helpful in terms of a foundation of a business relationship.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, and I use a lot of those things now when I do couples therapy or family therapy, anything like that. Some things that became really important were number one, figuring out our temperaments and where we're different and where we're the same, uh, what our value system is and why that is our value system.
SPEAKER_00And like the things in terms of values, like the ones that feel the most awfully like avoiding.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, things we avoid feeling, yeah, um, reasons why our number one value is our number one value. All of those things uh we went through, like needs. If this happens, what do you need from me?
SPEAKER_00Um when I'm yeah, when I get triggered, or when like if I start to like kind of check out, then this is likely what's happening. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How will I know if if it's been triggered? Things like that. And so we told stories to each other about where we got. Um, I remember, you know, one of them always comes back to David, right? But uh, what was the one, the biggest thing that you learned from one of your most important mentors? And why is that important? And why is it important for your new business partner to know that about you? And it was just a really beautiful process. It was um, I think six sessions over like six weeks, right?
SPEAKER_00Is that yeah, I gal, Sarah Sherman, she's amazing, yeah. Um, runs a big company out of Minnesota.
SPEAKER_01Minnesota. And she's yeah, she's just wonderful. She did a TED talk. So if you get a chance to go on TED Talk, look up Sarah Sherman. She did a great talk. Um, and it has really like driven or guided our partnership for the past 10 years. Um, of course, over the last 10 years, it's evolved. We've gotten to know each other deeper.
SPEAKER_00Um, there's been some stormy parts, but they're not like long, awful storms. And I think part of that, I would say like the reason they're not is because of that and the commitments we made in that process. Um, it might even even be more like premarriage counseling than pre-marriage counseling.
SPEAKER_01Totally. And like when Amy says stormy parts, the difference between her and I is they were stormy for her. They weren't really particularly stormy for me.
SPEAKER_00One time was like just like stormed off, slammed the door, marched away. It was I forget what she said, but it was I know I need to come back and talk to you later about this. And who was like you're an idiot, I hate you, I never want to see you again. That's what I heard. That's not what she says, that's not what I said. And then I it's kind of like how it happened was actually quite interesting because it was a uh boundary with a client that stirred us up, um, with a kind of a mutual client or a client who had come, whatever. Um, and then I I walked away. She stormed away, I stormed away, and I like took some time, took some deep breaths, and I was like, what are my boundaries? Because it's not okay. Like you made she said some things about me that are not true. And uh didn't really bitch though. No, it was like assumptions, like you just I forget what the I don't even remember what the assumptions are because it doesn't matter, but they were assumptions that were not true about like what I was thinking or what my intent was or how why I did what I did. Um, and so then we it took some time and then I was like, I came back and I was like, I think we need to talk about, I'd like to talk about this and sort this out. So that's like a 10 out of 10 for me. Like we need to talk. And we did, and it was awkward and like difficult. And I think we did come out the other side of that a little stronger and had conversations about um boundaries and our assumptions about each other when it comes to you know, transfer of clients, transfer of clients.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it was like it was really, I was very proud of us and how mature. Well, I maybe wasn't so mature at the beginning, and I I own that.
SPEAKER_00Um I think, but I think you were but like a lot fiery, more fiery, and I think part of that was like your defense total like defensiveness with each other totally. Where now I don't need to be like we need to talk about something. I'm more like, Angie, there's something that's been really bothering me. And she's just like, what is it, Amy? Spit it out, let's go.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about this. It was so good. And what I realized from that was that I think that's what people don't do very well in like relationships in general. What do we do? We don't say anything, we don't say anything, we don't say anything, it builds up inside, and then pretty soon it's bigger than it needs to be. And so that was a huge learning for me. That it will, I think it was the moment that I realized that uh Amy was safe to be vulnerable with. That's a big deal in partnership, is that you are safe to be vulnerable, that you trust the uh the other person is not gonna walk away or leave, or you know, whatever the fears are that most of us have around relationships, that we're just gonna stay in it and and work through it.
SPEAKER_00Um, you still like there are moments where you are fiery, but it's different now where you'll like you own it and you're not so double like I'm feeling pretty hot right now, and then okay, let's go. It's usually not a conflict between us, but some like we usually talk about it earlier now before it becomes because I don't have red hair anymore. That's right. Big D that big exactly when I read hero's fiery, fiery, and she had Harley and she's fiery and she's getting tattoos and dudes' basements. I'm just joking. I'm joking.
SPEAKER_01Um, and you know, over the years we've brought Brett into the fold of some of the programming that we do. And I don't know, but it just works. And I think with Brett as well, he and I can like be like, oh, yeah, I came in a little hot, apologize. Yep, okay, thank you for the apologize, and we move on. You know, it's it's very easy now. I find maybe you guys don't find it so easy.
SPEAKER_00Well, you guys don't hold it. Like, I know I would fester on that if it wasn't like, you know, someone was hot with me and like what's that about, or like I should have said this, should have said that. You guys don't, but you also aren't afraid to like tell each other. Like, I don't but like the way you guys communicate each other with each other when you're hot is different than something I would feel comfortable with. But you guys just do it without like wearing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's um so over the years it's become like this easy relationship between the three of us in particular, because the three of us are here at the ranch together most of the time. My husband comes and goes volunteers here and there volunteers. But um, Brett Amy and I work pretty closely together, yeah, kind of every day, right? So we don't know, but we kind of know, you know, we we don't exactly know why it works so seamlessly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that's such a good point, like because we can preach like our partnership and like this is what it should like, relationships should feel safe and blah blah blah. But there is a big mystery to why it works too, because we are we are very different. Like Angie does stuff that scares me a lot, but we talk about it and not in like she's not like lighting stuff on fire and things like that. She she has like really brought um internalized our values and our fears and our things that are really important here at the farm. So she thinks about those things and like she's not lighting stuff on fire, right? But she but like you're a big risk taker, go for it, don't think about how or what or like the pieces that need to happen. You just go for it, and that can be very scary for me. Yep. Um, but I I say that because um I don't know why it works. And so like not every relationship, this this is not like the way every business relationship should be. We're like I don't know if that's the right thing to say, but there's a there's a lot that we know, and then there's also the mystery of why it works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh I I would say like from my perspective, Amy's very easy to get along with. Like she's she's really communicative, which is so helpful. I I am not always communicative. Amy's like she she's one that like talks stuff through, not that she's an extrovert, but she talks stuff through. Um she is very good at uh trusting me now, not always, but now um, and I think that's a big piece to it as well, is is yes, we're very different. We work very differently. I do take more risks with clients than Amy would. Um, and probably at the beginning when we worked together, I there were a couple of times where I could see her like, oh God, what's she gonna do? Yikes, am I gonna have to pick up the pieces after she does this? Um, but she also sat back and trusted that I was not going to like. Blow anything up, or you know, like I was gonna be careful even though I was taking a risk. That uh that's a big deal too. And I've always trusted her because there's nothing to not trust, right?
SPEAKER_00It's she's gonna be so safe. Right. So safe. Nothing bad is gonna happen. Um, yeah. And I think trust is a big piece. I guess that would be like the part of the mystery, but also like what we know, why it works when you value another person, respect another person, and trust them. Um and I think trust is a hard one because it really is built over time. Yep. In the start, it was just like a prayer, like, I hope this works out. Here we go. Right. Um, but now it's like, no, I know she because you I like to know like theory and like be able to answer the questions. Why did you do that? Well, I was focused on like this, like if we know if this theory is true about you know human dynamics or relationships or regulation or trauma, then that's why I did this because of all these things lining out to this. And but something inside me said we needed to go here, which is like over time, I've she's taught me to trust my intuition more. And I think that I have helped you understand that you're actually smarter than you give yourself credit for 100%, and you know a lot of theory, and you know, and like sometimes I can ask you those questions, why did you do that? And you're like, just felt right. I'm like, no, but why did you do it? And you can say you you've got a lot actually behind your decisions and that kind of stuff. Yeah. So that trust over time was is was built. It's like a like a bank, you know, you're like a little bit um in, like take some risks, okay. That big fiery thing that I like the potential to take a lot out, but then we re we like probably built stronger connection. And my husband is really he like I avoid conflict, and he does, but there are times where he loves conflict and loves to dive in mostly in relationships that are really important to him because what did he say? If the relationship is if that's important, it's worth getting messy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, about something like that. I've got it written down somewhere in one of my journals because he said that I'm like boom, absolutely. Like, if you're not willing to get a little dusty, then the relationship isn't really that important to you. I knew a little bit about Brett before I moved here, not a lot, but I was very mindful at the beginning. Well, I still I still am, but like super mindful at the beginning to um make sure that if I move something, I put it back where it was. Like I was very, very mindful about, okay, if I do this, then I gotta make sure that I put it back. Or um, yeah, just respecting of Brett's need to know that he could also trust me. So that was important in any way that I could prove to him that I was trustworthy, that I was I was doing that day after day after day after day. I don't know if he noticed or not. It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_00Um, he notices now, and you're like, boss, you didn't shut that gate. Why didn't you shut that gate? You're supposed to shut the gate. And he's like, just leave it open, who cares? And then the cows get out on neck.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, farmer in training, first thing I learned was open a gate, shut the gate behind you. So I do that. Like it's like important to me number one. Yeah. And I walk around the farm going, the boss left that gate open. And I go and close it, and it's open again. And now he does it with the door.
SPEAKER_00He'll like come in and be like, You eating up the whole world, shut shut door. And then, like, you'll come out in the afternoon and the door to his shops wide open. And sometimes I'm like, I can't. Yeah, stays open all night long because he didn't shut the door, or he didn't shut up.
SPEAKER_01Or but he'll say to me, shut the lights out. You know it costs money.
SPEAKER_00Anyways, that's just such a little just off a little bit on a little bit of a tangent. But that like building trust, like you told me to do this, so I'm gonna try to do this and like do it as best I can. Yeah, even if you don't do it yourself. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's been um for me personally, it's been like the just the greatest 10 years. Um, other things that that I appreciate about being here and the partnership and the friendship that's evolved over time, too, is that I feel like this is home to me. You know, um, I love when Brett's like trying to plan where he's gonna put stuff and he like, come here, I need I need to show you something. What do you think about this? But okay, sure. You do whatever you want. Um, you're always saying, like, it's your phrase, yeah. You can do what you want. What do you think about this? Yeah, yeah. So I really appreciate that. Um people drive up and feel our energy, which is really cool. Like, not everybody says that, but there are many people that say, Wow, I drive up the gate and there's just an energy about this place. Um, and the three of us, I think, have worked really hard at making sure that it feels like home, like people can come and feel like they can take a breath and um just be. And so that's been important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think like gotten to a place where it's like in our own ways. Like Angie's husband is super good at like details and like well, and some things, super good at details, like this. He's like, I'm gonna put this backboard here. I'm gonna build this like back thing here. Because this used to be a door, right? Yeah, sliding door. So he does that, or he like built a floor in a stall so that um we could use it for storage and like does stuff like that. He's uh as a business and like doing um garage organizing and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01So when we got to do a big clean, Angie brings Amy's like, well, let's not throw that away because I might need it 10 years right now. Like, dump, put this in the dump.
SPEAKER_00Do I put it in the dump? And he just like gone, Rose on his truck and it's gone. Um, but like in ways where we all have our strengths that we bring together. And even things like um, if there's an inquiry about programming, and I'm like, I can't, like Angie's really good at that. And like, you know, what we're all very good at, um we really like use each other's strengths and also support each other when we have vulnerable times or things going on in our lives where we need a little bit of support and there's a lot of compassion and understanding. So I think that partnerships are hard, relationships are hard. Yep. You never want your heart broken, never get in a relationship with a person, an animal. Right. Either way, you're gonna get your heart broken.
SPEAKER_01It's the cost of cost of love, cost of love, grief. And is it worth it? Yes. To be cared for, um to know that you're understood and um that even you're loved even though you have an underbelly. That's a big deal. Really big deal.
SPEAKER_00And that sense, I think that sense of home, like that's when you find know that relationships are safe. And sometimes we we're not good at that if we've had um traumatic experiences in our life. Being able to find that might be like a lifelong uh search or journey.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes our job as therapists is to simply simple, it's not simple for the person coming, but to simply allow them to feel safe and at home. And that might last for a really long time before you can even get to the work. Right. So important. There's so much more to say about our partnership, but we could probably do a two two-part series on that.
SPEAKER_00And we have talked about doing like that process we went through doing like not the same, but like similar based on like what we've learned over time now, too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00About, you know, how do you where do you go for that pre-relationship or start a relationship or want to build your relationship if it's not like an intimate marriage? Because that's really the only like relationship place you can go. Pre-marriage counseling, pre-marriage counseling.
SPEAKER_01Um's is even better than pre-marriage counseling. Totally, totally, right? Everybody should go through it that's getting into any kind of relationship, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you know, when we say we don't, we kind of don't know, that's the part of like mine and Amy's, I don't know, the connection, the unseen connection. There's something there, maybe we went through another life together. Who knows? Um, but there are also things we've learned that we use every single day to make sure that the relationship stays solid.
SPEAKER_00This is our episode on partnerships. Uh, I don't know that it went where we intended it to go, but but this is also kind of the process where we start and build off each other. And here we are. Um, yeah, covered some ground about partnerships. If you have any questions or thoughts about partnerships, uh, we'd love for you to hear from you. Uh, if you haven't already, please subscribe if you're finding values in these podcasts. And we are just so grateful you're here. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day, couple of weeks. We'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to the Mindful Humanship podcast. May the horse always bring you home.