Kevin Williams | East Carolina University Women's Golf

In this episode of College Golf Today, host Kelly Okun speaks with Kevin Williams, the Director of Golf and Head Coach of the Women's and Men's teams at East Carolina University.

Kevin shares how he started the women's program from scratch, what he looks for in his recruits, why specializing in a sport too early could be a risk and his take on the future of women's college golf. 

With so much wisdom in just this episode, it's no surprise Kevin was named the 2025 Kim Evans Award recipient and the incoming president of the WGCA.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to College Golf Today, inspiring tomorrow's Coaches and Players, a podcast in partnership with the Women's Golf Coaches Association and Fairway to Green. I'm your host, Kelly Oaken, and a former Division I and professional golfer. We are excited to dive into college golf's biggest topics with the coaches themselves. We're talking best coaching and recruiting practices, their take on current trends like NIL, and Sage advice for new and aspiring coaches, all straight from

Meet Kevin Williams: From PGA Pro to College Coach

SPEAKER_00 0:26

the source. Today we're joined by Kevin Williams, the director of golf and head coach for both the women's and men's teams at East Carolina University. Kevin shares how he started the women's program from scratch, what he looks for in his recruits, and his take on the future of women's college golf. He was named the 2025 Kim Evans Award recipient for his involvement in the community and his coaching practices. And he's the incoming president of the WGCA. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started in college golf coaching?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Well, I used to give Dave Hart, the athletic director at East Carolina University, golf lessons. I was a golf pro at Kinston Country Club, which is about 30 minutes from campus. And when Hal Morrison retired from East Carolina, Dave basically asked me would I be interested in coaching the golf team. At a time, in addition to coaching as a golf pro at Kinston, I was coaching the high school team and I really enjoyed it. And my current assistant now actually was on that high school team, which is pretty cool. And so, you know, that was how kind of had it started in '95. I got started East Carolina coaching on the men's side. And then in 2000, we added women's golf. And so I was coaching both for five and a half years. So yeah, so Dave Hart left. I didn't actually work for Dave. He hired me, and then he left and took over as athletic director of Florida State, which would have been 1995. So yeah. So he had a great career there and was, I think he worked at Alabama and then Tennessee. And yeah, good so it's a great AD, great man.

Launching a Women's College Golf Program

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, what was it like starting up the women's program from scratch?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

It was great because we had a plan. We had it laid out we were going to spend three scholarships the first year, and at the time you were allowed six, and then one each of the next three years. And it was a perfect time to do it at the time NC State was starting the program as well. So there were, I think, eight or ten schools adding in 2000. 2001 was our first year competing. And so it was good that we had a plan. We had time. We knew we were going to do it two years ahead of time. So we came up with a really good plan. And we were able because at the time, you know, women's golf was really growing in the state. And so we were able to hit a home run with a couple of in-state players, which was great. Then we started branching out, bringing some international players in as well. And it was different, obviously, than coaching on the guy's side, but it was really good because we were fully funded. And on the men's side, we were dealing with like maybe two scholarships. So yeah, so it was nice to have the resources, right? When you know, working five years and just dealing with the fact that you didn't have all a full deck of cards on the men's side, it was a nice change of

Coaching Women vs. Men in College

SPEAKER_01 3:08

pace.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Well, how else was it different coaching the men's and women's side at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, I I think they were more open to ideas and help with their golf games. I think on the men's side, obviously, we're a little more stubborn and not wanting to help as much at times. I've got this coach type deal, whereas on the women's side, they were eager to learn, right? And I think that part, it was funny. We just had this conversation about how much coaching are you doing nowadays. And I do way less coaching now than I did 15 years ago. And I just think it's the nature of the beast, so to speak, right? All the players now they have a swing coach, they probably have somebody working with meant on the mental side. And so we're doing more of a managing type position. We're trying to do some more individual work within our practice just because I feel like we get a lot more out of it. And at the end of the day, we see them play more golf than their teacher does at home. But it's good. I think you know, everything changes, right? It goes in cycles. But I've enjoyed coaching both sides, actually. They are different, without question. The conversation at dinner is the biggest difference.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Really?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Oh, yeah. They're talking sports with the guys, you know, and the girls are talking about some kind of streaming show they're watching or something else. Yeah, right. So it's totally different vibe at the dinner table, but that is good, yeah. I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

It

Recruiting for Culture

SPEAKER_00 4:31

sounds like you've built a great culture at that team. What traits do you look for in recruits to keep that culture strong?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, we're looking good students first. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, we're in this day and age of NIL and everything else and getting paid, but at the end of the day, we're educators, right? We're coaches, we're working at institutions of higher learning, and our job is, you know, to obviously be successful in competition, but you know, how many are gonna play? Professional sports, right? You know, what do they say is one percent or whatever? So just 99% of the people we're coaching, you know, they need to get ready for the real world. And so, yeah, yeah, it I mean, it's changed a lot, but at the end of the day, that's our purpose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah,

Recruiting for Swing Speed

SPEAKER_00 5:13

and I know we've spoken before just on the recruiting side that you like to look for what you call developmental players. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah, we're looking nowadays, especially looking at speed, right? I mean, that's the big thing we're looking for is speed. The game has changed a lot. You know, Mark Brody wrote a great book, you know, every shot, every stroke matters, whatever it is. But basically, at the end of the day, if you're closer to the green, your score is lower. And so that's proven. And so we're looking at speed number one, obviously looking for somebody who's a really good student, but you know, that's I really I mean, you get it closer to green, it's easier to teach them more short game than it is in course management than it is teach them to gain more speed, you know, and so at the end of the day, you know, a lot of what we do in practice is revolved around the short game and hitting little pitch shots or chip shots and working on your putting, especially. But you know, speed is hard to capture. I mean, like we do the stack system, and I think it's good, but at the end of the day, not everybody can gain that much cliphead speed, right? And so that's one of the number one things we look for when we go out recruiting. I have great story. Sally Austin used to coach at UNC. It was so funny. I'd just gotten in on the women's side and she's coaching and watching her one day, and she's sitting in a certain spot on a hole, on par four, maybe par five, I can't remember. And she just sat in that chair and you know, kind of made a loop watching some people play and came back, and Sally's in the same spot again. And so we just start chit-chatting Drew Crate Coach. And I, you know, I just kind of Sally, you're gonna sit here all day just joking when she says, Well, you know, when somebody hits it past me, I'm gonna go start walking with them and watch them. So she was basically sitting at 250. And when a girl hit it past her, she was gonna watch her play. So and that was 2002, 3, 4. So that kind of tells you, I mean, speed is always uh something we're looking for. And from the development player, you know, even if they don't have like a tremendous amount of speed, but they have a great love for the game, they're maybe a late bloomer that's really maybe they played softball or another sport and they've really taken to golf, and you just see that athleticism that they know how to compete. And so that part of the athleticism, being on a soccer team or something else, softball team, that competitiveness is big. What happens a lot now is they play only one sport. So the competitiveness part they're kind of missing a little bit. Our current assistant coach, Catherine Carlson, played basketball in high school. And I'll never forget our assistant at the time, who's now the assistant at NC State, Courtney Gunther, went to watch her play basketball. And she was really good, had great hands, shot the ball really well, good at three-pointer. We always joke she didn't like to play defense, you know. But I mean, she played other sports, super competitive. And I see that with her as our assistant coach now. She's doing a fantastic job, and just that competitive side to it. And so we're looking for players like her because she developed, you know, and so when you go out looking for players, it's gonna come from that athletic. And you ask those questions. Did you play in the sports? So you play, and a lot of times what they say, no, I've just played golf since I was six, I don't want to say it's red flags, but at the same time, you'd like to see somebody maybe a little more well-rounded. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

It does, yeah. I know specialization has definitely been a hot topic lately where it's just happening way too young.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, exactly.

Pitfalls of Early Specialization in Sports

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

If you're specializing too early in golf, does that take away from the kids' development in a team setting from other sports?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

I think it does. And I tell you the thing I'm seeing now is when you're specializing, they're pushing you parents or pushing you hard in that sport. And what I'm tending to see across the country is I play junior golf to get my scholarship, and then I'm in college, I just do the minimum. And I see way too much of that going on. I talk to too many coaches, they have one or two on the team. I've got, you know, you just have that. You just you deal with those that have played junior golf. Parents want to get them a scholarship. They're spending a lot of money, obviously, playing junior golf, and they get that scholarship, and then it's a little more of a coast mentality. And so again, you're looking for that development kit, right? The game is eating them up. They love playing it like crazy. That's the kind of player you want to get because you know they're gonna continue to improve and they're actually broadening their abilities just by learning. They're more like sponges when you're trying to work with them.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

That's the word I like to use when I was a senior in high school. I was asked to describe myself, but it was more probably about history facts because that's pretty nerdy.

Shifts in College Golf Recruiting: NIL, Rosters & More

SPEAKER_00 9:50

How have the latest trends in golf and really just college sports in general? I know NIL hasn't hit golf too hard yet, but roster spots, the transfer portal, how has that affected your coaching philosophy?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

You know, hadn't changed what we do per se. I think you're allowed to have nine players. We have nine now on the team, we're gonna have eight next year. I like eight. Eight's a good number, too. It really hadn't changed it a lot, to be honest with you. I think the big thing for us is are we, you know, six was the number scholarship-wise, right? So that's everybody's all right, what do we have scholarship money-wise? We've been very fortunate at East Carolina. We have Austin money that we can give away before we didn't have it, but now we're using it as part of the Rev share, which is great for the female athletes at East Carolina, and our girls are part of that, which is really good. So it's enabled us to give more than to six, which is really good. And I think, you know, that's what everybody's fighting. You know, I you talk to certain ones, you know, yeah, I'm looking for players because we've got to get denied players. They're used to having seven. So I see that effect in East Carolina because we're losing more recruiting battles to players that would fit really good for us, but they end up going to a Power Four school because they have to get denied players. Yeah. You know, and that's interesting because, you know, and it's great. Hopefully they have a great experience there, but from a golf competitive standpoint, if they want to play more, they probably have a better chance where we are. And so that that's changing how we're looking at things because we're gonna probably have to get more development kits, right? And so that's a big piece. So again, goes back to speed. We've got to find a player that has the speed. And what we're finding a lot of times, if as this trend goes, and again it runs in cycles, we're seeing a lot of low speed right now. Uh, and I, you know, we just gotta keep looking, right? You gotta keep looking. And right now we've been looking internationally more so than inside North Carolina and the U.S. And so, and if I've had success doing that, but you know, the in the grand scheme of things, in all the years I coached at East Carolina, and most of the time we only had four internationals on the team. We're a state school, right? We need to look at North Carolina first. And again, it's in cycles, and I see the state right now is a little down, not as much speed, maybe the specialization. They haven't played other sports, not as athletic, not as dynamic, and uh then they become more static, right? Because you're trying to hit it just right. You're trying to be perfect, and we want those that are just more reactionary. And I think that's where your development kits come from.

Advice for New and Aspiring College Coaches

SPEAKER_00 12:33

You've obviously been in this industry coaching for a long time. You've started programs, you've been coaching two at once. What advice would you have to aspiring college coaches, whether it's just getting into it or moving up the chain to head coach?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Well, I think it's the greatest job there is. Like you're around young people all the time, and obviously as I've gotten older, it keeps me younger. And I think you can have a positive effect on their experience. And across the country, the student athlete experience is paramount now, right? It used to be, you know, coaches are at this level, and then the student athletes now it's changed. Student athletes have a higher status of that student athlete experience for college administrators and athletic department administrators, it's paramount, right? They want that experience to be really good. And so, you know, you're trying to make sure they experience something other than just golf. I remember we used to go to Chicago to a tournament each year, and we'd go on Saturday just so we could do the architectural boat tour, which was so cool, you know. And so, you know, just to do something, go to a Charleston to a tournament where we're gonna go downtown Charleston and just look around, right? I mean, they try to experience something that can broaden their experience. And that's the key now, use that student athlete experience and communication. At the end of the day, it's what we do in coaching is all about communicating our expectations to the student athletes, and I think that tends to have a positive effect on a college student athlete experience if you're communicating what your needs are and what you're expecting from the program and from each player in the team.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah, I love that. I don't know if you know Mo Martin. She was on the LPGA from UCLA, and she gave me some advice when I was competing that was basically the same like take time outside of golf to go explore where you're playing, because the golf rounds will blur together, but your memories will be from the people and the places you visit.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Well, and so many people are like their score is how they identify themselves, right? You know, and so we've got a great sport psychologist on our staff, and you know, we talk about that, whatever sport it is, he's working with not only golf, other sports at ECU, and that's such a big part of what's going on. And if you specialize, that's the only thing you've known is golf, right? A lot of times, and I think that's the part about the specialization I think that hurts, is because then you become more of an identifying with your score versus playing other sports. And I mean, you know, heck, I've just been a while, but growing up when it was baseball season, I played baseball. When it's football season and then basketball, you know, that's when you played. And golf was you you played in addition to playing baseball, right? And so everything's just it's changed a lot over the years because of that. And I'm not sure if it's for the best. I think what you're seeing now is better golfers because of that as a whole. Like the scores are crazy. I was telling the team at the beginning of the year school at the spring meeting, we have a young woman in the Hall of Fame. She played, graduated in 2006. She just got put in the Hall of Fame last year, won six times. Wow. Finished 33rd in the country in the Nashville's one year. She's not on any of our record boards for scoring average. That tells you how good the scores are now. Yeah. And if you look at the record board, it's all in the last 10 years. So the numbers are getting lower and lower, and a lot of that's equipment, but a lot of it's they're just some up's the specialization, right? You're focusing on golf, you got a swing coach, you're dealing with trap man, you're just better. I mean, the golfers are better. I think the biggest part they're missing is the fact that some of them don't know how to play the game as well because it's becomes a fixed spot, hitting a shot, looking at my numbers, looking at the video, versus, you know, we've got our team right now qualifying six clubs in a putter. And you wouldn't believe how much some of them are struggling with the fact that it's a seven-iron, but they don't have it in their back. So they gotta choose the six or eight. Well, now they gotta start thinking about course management. Where's the flag? Where do I need to put it? And it's really hard processing all that because before they shoot it, 145, it's my eight iron or my seven iron. Boom, just swing at it. And so it's been really good to see them navigate that piece. And so that's what we have to do as coaches. We have to be creative. I was at the convention, it was really good at the round table, and I heard from five different coaches that they play birdies don't count, count as pars.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

And so it gets you playing more conservative and hitting more in the middle of the green versus flying it at every flag. And I thought it was pretty interesting. So East Carolina University probably be doing that pretty soon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

I know it's hard to believe it, but it really is trying to keep it at par and trying to avoid the big numbers, not so much getting the birdies.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

But so our guys are doing a 54-hole qualifier right now, and it's six clubs and a putter, and they had their first round yesterday, and we had less birdies than a normal round. It was interesting. We had some decent scores, but we had less birdies, especially on the par fives. Well, if they took their driver, then they didn't have their three wood. And of course, we were playing to use the pretty, pretty good par fives, and they could get to them where they weren't getting to them. And so I said, okay, well, what was the issue with not scoring on the par fives? Well, if they took their 60-degree wedge, then they didn't have their 54. Yep. And so they were kind of like in between a lot of times, right? And so again, but as I told them, I said, you got better today because you learned you need to be better at hitting different kinds of shots versus just you've got to hit it the same way every time. But I we just get caught on hitting from a flat lie, pounding ball after ball, and just getting our players nowadays to kind of think outside the box. It's tough, but it's what they need.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, I wish I had that one. I think we did one scenario before our home tournament once where we went into a back bunker on the first tool and was like, if you end up here, this is how you can try to play it. And I think that's really the only on course management we were taught, other than don't go for it. Don't go for it, play up on this one.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

It was interesting.

Teaching Course Management

SPEAKER_01 18:48

We had uh so Scott Fawcett came to our school, I think it was 2016, fall of 15. And our only all-American in East Carolina is Frida Spain. And Frida Spain was fired at every flag. Her coach in Sweden told her flight at every flag. And Scott came in and did a presentation. He did it with the men's team at Duke the same the day before. And our men's coach, Pressman Falls, said, Hey, you want the girls to sit in on this meeting? I said, Yeah, it'd be great. Come to find out he's not allowed to do that, right? At the time, you know, and so they obviously slap our hands. But it was four hours of decade, Scott Fawcett's theories, and he had just gotten through working with Bryson and he won the USAM and the NCAA championship. And it's common sense stuff, but he put a number to it, and it was really cool. Frida won four tournaments that year and we made all American because she started looking at something other than the flag. And so I listened to Scott at our convention this year. He was the last day and he was fantastic. It was only an hour, and he could have been out there forever, but it was just really good. And so I pulled up my stuff from 15. I had this PowerPoint. And so we did it. First meeting of the year. We had both teams in there. We talked about a decade. And it's cool because you then you have two or three players. Hey, can you teach me a little bit more of this? And so going out on the golf course with them and talking through certain situations, and you know, it was, yeah. So it just again broaden your scope, right? This was developing. Let's just, yeah, let's get outside your box unless there's more ways to do it, right? And so that that was pretty

The Future of Women's College Golf

SPEAKER_01 20:28

neat.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, specialization's been a big theme today. Where do you see the future of college golf going, especially on the women's side?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

I think we're in a great spot. I think the game is the best it's ever been. There's more parody, there's more depth to it, more people are playing. I just women in general. I mean, there's more women playing golf now than I've ever seen, which is wonderful. I I think, you know, the junior tours that I see, and just the scores, right? Maybe it's not as athletic as we're looking for, but the scores are good. You know, and I think it's in a great spot right now. College golf's the best it's ever been. And I think uh the future is super bright for our game. I think we're making a lot of headway. I think it's great whether her Tigers got the league starting up, and they signed up some girls today. I think Charlie Hull and some others were signing up Lexi, and all it's gonna do is grow the game. You know, and I think we see it at our club at home, the three private clubs we have in town. We go out to practice, and I'm like, wow, look, you know, just looking around, it's just more women playing the sport, and which is really good. I thought it was just the cute Lululemon outfits, but no, it's not that. I'm sure it's part of it, but it's part of it, yeah, yeah. But the you know, but and I think you know, COVID was just massive for golf, right? It it allowed everybody to take a breath. You couldn't do the travel ball, all that was shut down, and so people got back into golf like they had t stepped away from it. And I I think It was really good. We needed a reset in the game, and it couldn't have come at a better time. And so I think on both sides, men and women, it's in a great spot. But I think our game on the women's side has grown just leaps and bounds. And I'd see it, I think we're at a great spot as far as college golf and exposure we're getting. The golf channel's been great with giving exposure to women's golf. You got the Darius Ruckers, televised, Fools of Honor. We I mean it's just really good to see baby grands involved, but with golf now at the junior level, that's gonna do nothing but increase and make college golf better. So it's really good to see across the board the different platforms that are helping CGN Plus, it helps us with our social media. I mean, it's fantastic. So I think all of those avenues are helping college golf because we know social media plays such a big part in everybody's what they're seeing, right? And I think that exposure is gonna do nothing but continue to grow the game.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

I love to hear that. And congratulations are in order since you'll be the incoming president of the WGCA. What are you looking forward to most in your first year?

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Well, I'm very excited that Courtney Trimble is our new CEO, so that's been great. I think coming in and being a part of the transition between Roger Yafi retiring and who did a tremendous job, put us in a really good spot financially, and I think Courtney coming in with all the connections she has, I think it's just going our again, like I said, we're hot right now. Women's golf is hot. And I think the transition is coming at a great time. Courtney coming on board with her contacts and her love for the game. So I'm excited about just letting her run, right? You know, you as a coach, part of your job is like, you know, you uh roll the balls out and let them play, right? You know, get out of their way. You know, you do practice, they're ready to go. When they go to compete, just stand out of their way and let them play, right? And I think with her, that's kind of how I look at it. Like we're here to support her. If she needs us, we're here at the PGA show because we're supporting her. We want to be here for her. And this is where we need to be. This everybody's here, right? This is the epicenter of golf this week, is the PGA show. So we're excited to be here. And I think, you know, like I said, we're in a good spot. So I'm very lucky to be coming in at this time. Kelly Hester has done an amazing job the last year and a half as the president. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm excited. But I think, you know, I'm gonna just let Courtney do her thing. And I'm here, she needs me.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Well, thank you so much. Really excited to see where the WGCA goes in the next year in college golf as a whole.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, me too. Thank you for having me.