Episode 9 - Max Kast (Part 2)

In Part 2 of this special conversation on Wine With Friends, host Marcus Ginyard continues his discussion with Max Kast, Director of BOND Winery.

The conversation picks up as a new bottle is opened, setting the stage for a deeper look into how wine brings people together. Marcus and Max explore the role wine plays in building community, creating connection, and fostering meaningful conversation across cultures and experiences.

Max also shares insight into the philosophy and craftsmanship behind BOND Winery, offering a closer look at what makes it such a special and respected name in the wine world.

This episode is about connection, culture, and the shared moments that make wine more than just what’s in the glass.

Pour a glass and join the conversation. 🍷

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Alright, so we managed to get this opened. Well, it was already open. A little cork failure. Well, somewhat, but we got it open. So tell us where we're going next.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

So next we are going to go from South Africa, uh, go back to the northern hemisphere, and go into Burgundy. And we're gonna go into really, I mean, along with Dijon, the capital of uh Burgundy, uh in Bonn, and you know, the Clos de Mouche Vineyard, it's a Premier Cru Vineyard. There are no Grand Creux vineyards in Bonn, sadly, but if there were, I personally think the Clos de Mouche would be one. They make outstanding Chardonnay uh as well as outstanding and long-lived Pinot Noir. Uh, and you know, this is a special bottle for me, is as this is one that um, you know, my my brother-in-law, his his parents really loved wine. And uh when they passed away, uh, you know, his mother is like, I want Max to have some of these because I know he would share it with people who'd appreciate it. And that's what wine's about, sharing it with people that that will, you know, um, you know, like minds, right? Sure. Uh, and that who would really there'd be good conversations about it. So 1985, a great vintage in in Burgundy. Uh, and you know, this is really um for me, I every time I open this wine, like I get something different, and it's just it's delicious.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So we we talked just a little bit, briefly just now, um, about some other wine regions around the world. Well, where are we specifically in Burgundy? You talked a little bit about Dijon being the capital, but but where is is Bonn in the so Bonn is in the Cote de Bonn, uh and within the Cote d'Or, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

The Golden Slope. Uh, it is right uh right south of um of Corton, like the Corton Grand Cru, uh there. Uh, and it is really the capital of of the of the uh negotiants, right? It's it's a big wine city across the board. Uh it's not a big city, but it's it's uh what happens there is is really important. And it's also the home of the hospistebon, uh, where they they have the the charity uh every November uh and one of the most beautiful buildings uh in the world as well, like the beautiful roof and uh uh really uh kind of culturally uh important part of uh Burgundy.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

So 1985. 1985. Um, you know, you talk about snapshots and kind of the the the picture that this takes, you know, in this bottle of of all the things that were going on in 1985 um in this specific place, in this very specific parcel, right? Um I was not born yet. So do you remember what was going on in 1985?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, I mean I I I was pretty young in in 1985 as well, but I I I do remember certain things. I I do remember Ronald Reagan's inauguration in in 1985. I I do remember watching LiveAid, yeah, and I I forgot that it was uh 1985. Uh but yeah, I mean that's like watching that on television is uh a big memory having being the eighth of nine kids had a lot of older siblings, so they turned me on to a lot of music, and I had some siblings in high school then, so of course that that's what we were doing.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Um, and then you know, what else did we have?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Uh the launch of Windows 1.0.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

How about that? Which I did not that that was uh that was a new one for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

That that was a and so it's just crazy to think about this grape juice here. A young Bill Gates, very young Bill Gates. I don't know, it just blows my mind to drink wine this old.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Me too. And and it's you know, it's for me, I love it when it's in such when it's in such good condition, right? Where you still get the fruit, like this the fruit is still really there. Sure. You get that like dried cranberry and dried strawberry and like kind of pomegranate, but then there's like that that you know, it's the autumn right now, so you get that like crushed dried leaf aroma, um, the like kind of rose petals falling, like falling on the ground. Then on the palate, it's just so lovely, still has great acidity. Again, velvet, velvet's a themed, right? Like super smooth. Um, but for me, when I when I taste it, I just think of the harvest party that folks were having when they picked the grapes, how hard everyone was working when they were picking the grapes, uh, the decision on when to harvest. It's like, okay, this is this, it's a good year. The weather, it's like, are we gonna go early? We're gonna go a little bit later, when's perfect ripeness with the grapes going through? What wine wine grower tasting the grapes? Like, which rose are we gonna pick? All of those things happened that year, right? And there's so many people that went into this bottle ultimately being here between you and me, right now, right? You know, and and then that's part of the story too, right? The the journey, the human journey, and how that's involved with the with the bottle of wine.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

You know, you said dried strawberry. You know, that's you know, you start to drink wines this old, you you get into those notes that you don't typically experience in other wines. Yeah, like yeah, you're you're not gonna get those tertiary dried fruit notes from wines that are two years old. Um, and I feel like that can sometimes be off-putting. I mean, I think your quote unquote average wine drinker isn't gonna be drinking a 1985.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

They probably won't like it.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Right, right. Because these things, these flavors and profiles are are very unique and and you don't come across them very often.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, yeah. And that's also one of those things, too, right? Like at the end of the day, it's about what you like to drink. And at this point in my career, I've seen so many a lot of people who old who would order an older wine, spend a lot of money on it, and then ultimately be really disappointed because they didn't didn't necessarily know what to expect. Um, and then they would have been happier with something, something younger, something different. Uh, and you know, I for me, I always viewed it as after had that happening a few times. Um, I the conversation was always about what sort of wine do you like? Yeah, right. And and like what sort of flavors do you like, and what are you looking for? Uh, before I would, you know, would let someone go down that path ultimately. Let, I hate to say that, guide uh have someone go down that path.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Perfect. We've talked about this a couple of times throughout these conversations with wine, and and we have a unique opportunity to talk to someone who has you know ascended to the top of the wine world, let's call it wine knowledge, wine education, and wine service. Always a student, man.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

But always a student, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Fair. But when you talk about guiding someone through that journey of picking a wine at dinner, um, you know, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what it's like to have that conversation. And and maybe you can help the listeners feel a little bit more comfortable about having that conversation. You know, I feel like there's a stigma around um Somaliers and engaging with them and trying to figure out you know where you want to end up. And I think you you you kind of started us down this conversation very, you know, very perfectly to say that you're guiding these customers on on their journey to to picking a wine.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah, I the the most for me and like what I learned when I was younger, I was maybe a little bit more egotistical, but yeah, like you know, the the the world has a really great way of making you humble. Uh and uh uh with that I learned that the best thing to do is to always find a wine that someone loves. And then if you're not doing that, you you're ultimately not making them happy. And the number one goal we were talking about before is making people happy. This is what I you know we choose to do in hospitality as a career is to make people happy and elevate their experience, right? So to do that, I learned a few things, and that's to what sort of wines do you like? It's a pretty simple question, right? Right, and and like people, yeah, number one, don't ever be tense or nervous about a simbolier because they're there to make your experience better. So be honest, what sort of wines do you like? It doesn't matter if if you like sweet wines, it doesn't matter if you like uh really fruity wines, doesn't matter if you like really austere, like tell them because they're gonna find you the best bottle of wine that that that that they have that you will like. Uh because you know they want you to be happy. And I I think that that's the key thing. Don't be afraid to one say, I don't know a lot, but what I do know is that these are the flavors I like.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Right? And then you get to do what you love to do, exactly, and give them all the options, and it's the same thing on a menu, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Like you're gonna order the thing on the menu that you know you're really gonna like, you'll take recommendations, right? But at the at the end of the day, you you uh a great server will also try and understand what your taste is. That's awesome. So that being said, Marcus, what sort of wines do you like? Ooh, and let me see if I can think of a recommend think of a recommendation for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I love um very balanced wines. Okay. I don't want any part of I want complexity. Okay, but I want balance. I don't want anything to feel like it's overpowering. I want in every sip, I want to discover something else. Typically, I'm gonna want no, that's not fair. I was gonna say I want a red wine, but it's I love all the grapes. And I want sparkling, I want white, I want red. Um, but let's just say for the time being, we'll take a red wine. I want something that I can eat with a variety of different foods.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I want something to eat at the beginning or to drink at the beginning of the meal, the middle, and at the end. Um I want structure. I want medium to full body, somewhere in between. Um and I want a I want a long finish. I want something that keeps me thinking about it. Um and I do want a terroir-driven wine.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Okay, all right. So with with that, with that being said, do you prefer more fruit forward wines or do you prefer more um kind of uh where kind of combination where it's secondary aromas dominant with fruit also playing a yes?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I want fruit to be present, I do not want it to be first.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Okay. So in that world, you have a preference for European wine. 100%. Okay. Uh and it within that, it sounds like you'd probably prefer you probably are not the Rhone Valley is probably not one of your favorites, southern Rhone is probably not one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Not one of my favorites. I do enjoy it. Okay, but not one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

But going within that, I would say I would say probably Burgundy, you you enjoy. Um, maybe like Nuit Saint-Georges or like Von Romane. Right?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

And and then you probably like the Pimonte and like Barolo, Barbaresco, but then you you you probably are in like adventurous and also like the wines from like the Aetna Aetna, Mount Aetna, and Sicily. I do. So um, those would be some areas that that I would guide you from our conversation. Yeah, but I could I I mean well, it's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Um, just behind us, not too far behind us, we have a lovely bile of barbarisco. Um what else is over there? We got a we have a Beaujolais over there.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Uh so the the the the Morgan, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Um we don't have something that would really be right down the fairway for me personally, is um a left bank Bordeaux. That's I mean, if I had one more meal, it would probably be a left bank Bordeaux. Now, even saying that, there's a lot of different, as you know, a lot of variants within that. You know, um for some reason, I know the reason. Um, I've fallen in love with Saint Julien because I've had my feet in the vineyards there, and um, that had just completely changed um, you know, the way that I I saw those wines. I loved them before, but then putting my feet in the dirt there and and seeing the vineyards uh of some great wines that I've tasted, Saint Estef as well. But um, yeah, I have been diving into Italian wines a lot more. Um and and we do I missed out on Bordeaux.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

You missed out on the water.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

I should have gone to Bordeaux, but we have been spending a lot of time in in the in the P Mop.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, cool. So do do you have do you have uh a favorite chateau in Saint Charles?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yes, um Chateau Lagrange. Nice um Bechtevelle. Yep. Um in Saint-Estep, uh Montrose.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Gosh, where else do I I should have brought some Bordeaux today? No, it's okay. Man, we're we're pretty fired up about this. Um you know that brings up an interesting point too, is just like traveling. You know, you talked about how wine gets you in this this this mode of of thinking about travel, and I think there's so much travel that we can do without getting on a plane.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah when we get to drink wines like this. I mean, we've already traveled to South Africa.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Now we're here in in Burgundy. Yep. It's like I I you know, you close your eyes and you smell these wines and you take a taste, and it's for me, having the you know, the the the luck and the fortune to have been in some beautiful vineyards, you know, it it's really easy for me to visualize myself in these vineyards. Yeah, um, and I think that's such a powerful thing about wine, being able to travel without getting a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

No, I'm with you. And and you know, hence why wine became so popular during the pandemic, too, right? I had like when no one was really able to travel, that is an ability that that was one avenue to kind of explore the world in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Max, I drank a lot of wine during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, you you you you weren't the only one. I I was there with you.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Holy smokes. I drank a lot of wine. Yeah, a lot of great wine. Was um was glad that I was in France during that time.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

But certainly gave me an opportunity to explore a lot more wines, I think, at least in the way that I would have wanted, um, you know, being there. I don't know. I just very fortunate to have some some great friends um and and built that community in a very trying time. But we had a lot of good wines together. And and I'll still think back at those weird, difficult days during COVID, but I I'll still think about them with a smile because I I know that we've had a a lot of moments shared over wine during that time.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, and I I think that was you know one of the saving graces, right? Um that I, you know, I I at that time I was uh working for an importer, and you know, we were checking in with our our our wineries all over the world, and that was actually a really interesting experience for me. So having these meetings with like winemakers in Italy, in Australia, uh in South Africa, and like you know, just checking in with everyone uh and then doing these like virtual tastings with them. Uh you you I you know, I I never I don't think I left a three mile radius for a whole long period of time, but I was connecting with everyone all over the world uh through wine, right? And that was a that was a a neat experience for in for that time period, but I feel really fortunate um now and now that you know I get to make a living traveling around the world, you know, getting to know people, building friendships and relationships uh around wine, right? And and and that is um just super meaningful to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

What are some of the connections that stand out to you that you've made through one?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, so for the the cool thing, because I don't I don't work in in restaurants anymore, but uh you know, working for a winery like Bond, uh I'm able to connect with so many different Sommelier communities. And it really some of the most like meaningful for me, like they're not fancy by any means, but uh with my with our importer in Thailand, like both visits that I had, we had casual bring your own bottle blind tasting lunches or dinners with the uh simuliers in Bangkok, and like just you know, hanging out with them, shooting the shit, blind tasting, you're like, all right, let's say like what we're all like giving giving our thoughts on wines this is chen and blanc, or is this from the is from the Savoie, or is this from the Jura, right? And and just like talking about wine and and hearing going to all these different countries and and uh hearing their like the palate that they they grew up on, right? The like the fruits they ate, the the foods that they have. The way their way of describing wine, like is an education to me, right? And and it's like, whoa, whoa, yeah, totally. I would have never thought that, but tamarind, you are 100% correct, like uh, or or like turmeric and ginger, and like you like all of these uh these kind of tasting notes that you know for me I I've brought in in my own personal repertoire, uh, but just that connection of of folks who you know have a shared passion in wine, have worked in the we've worked in the same industry, we're there to make people happy. Uh, and it it like I can get emotional thinking about that, you know? And um yeah, that it's when when I wake up in the morning that like those those are the experiences, I'm like, this is this is why this industry is so amazing. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

One question that we love to ask, Max is if you had to share this specific bottle of wine, this bottle of this vintage, with anyone past or present, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Well, this would be a simple, simple one. Uh you know, in life, people you love pass. Uh, and as I never got to see my older brother as an adult. He passed away when I was 14. Uh so I think, and he loved cooking, he loved yeah, things like that. Uh and I think it would be cool to be with my other brothers and my sisters, uh, and my dad who also passed, and what one of my uh another sister passed last year. Sorry, not meaning to be depressing, but you know, um I it would be really cool to have an opportunity to, you know, share some share a bottle of wine like this.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Cheers to him.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, thanks, man. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

How about you? Give him that it's 85. I'll go with my homie Matt Roberts. You'd appreciate that. Cool. Yeah. It's just crazy, 40 years. And a wine, like you said, that's still I mean, holding up great. We should drink, I just want to drink more old wine right now. Me too, though. Like I feel bad, but I mean if I see a bottle of wine, I think I mean I'm not the snobby, but like I'm I want the age because of that story and because of the the journey that this wine has been on for that long, right? And like again, just things that you experience in this class of wine that I don't know, 90 plus percent of people never never experience because they're they're not diving into wines this old, you know, or or have access to wines this old.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And and and that's the thing, it it is a it's a really privileged thing, and we're all very lucky to be in this position to to you know try these things, right? And and that that goes into every day I I I do tell myself when I wake up, I'm like, I am incredibly lucky, and I need to be incredibly grateful for for how lucky I am.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Well, we're again we are extremely grateful to to to have you on the on the pod with us this evening. Um thanks for being here. But there's you know, I want to I want to go back again. Okay Germany.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Tell me more about where your family's from in Germany.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Uh my my dad's from Schweinfurt. Okay. And uh Schweinfurt uh literally the pig crossing. Funny story though, my dad's uh my grandfather and his father and his father's father owned them the only butcher shop in Schweinfurt, which is the Pig's Crossing. Uh and uh you know it's within that there's a long tradition that my dad's cousin and his family they owned like the wine bar restaurant there. So there is this tradition on my dad's side of the family going back and going through. I've just uh been reading this family tree and book on my my uh family's history that my aunt uh no, my cousin wrote. Okay. And uh restaurants and specialty foods going back to the 18th century, which is crazy to think about, right? Uh but yeah, it's Schweinfurt and Franconia, beautiful wine region. Uh Sylvano is the main grape variety there, and and makes wonderful wine, increasingly some great Pinot Noir as well from there. Uh and then my mom grew up in the Thuringenwald, uh, so the the state right next to Franconia. And Franconia is the northern part of Bavaria. Uh, and then in the Thuringenwald, she ended up on the other half of the of uh she ended up in communist East Germany. So uh she and her dad escaped uh after he got out of he was an anti-communist politician, so he was imprisoned for three years. Uh he got out and then they escaped, but leaving uh one of my one of my uh aunts and one of my uncles in their families over there. So that was another experience as a kid having the opportunity to go over and visit communist East Germany and visit my relatives there, which was which was uh um talk about humbling, right? And uh seeing a very different part of the world and particularly seeing people who you're related to who uh you know now just live a very simple life. Uh all the cars were the same, they're all 20 years old, go to the grocery store and there's like three or four eggs. Uh like everyone grew their grew their own food, and uh yeah, it but at the same time, you know, people were still happy too. And so yeah, no, those experiences were were were really uh important for me as a kid.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

So I don't know much about this region, but I think it's not far from where I was from Bayreuth, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I was just gonna bring that up.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

So I got to live in Bayreuth. My first experience living in Europe, um it sounds like that's not far from where your family lives, not not too far away.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

My my grandfather uh on my mom's side grew up in Bayreuth, and that family lived there for a long time, and the home of Richard Wagner and uh the famous music festival every year. Uh but a beautiful, beautiful place. And uh yeah, you've you you were telling me about that before how you know waking up on a Sunday, everything's closed, you can't buy a new thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

My welcome to Europe moment, yeah, yeah, yeah. I uh got over it quickly, but it it was definitely a tough awakening, literally.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

So so for you, you you you not only like have traveled a lot, but you've lived and had the and were on teams in lots of different countries with lots of different languages, yeah, right? I I may be wrong, but Greece, Poland, Germany, France, Ukraine, Ukraine, uh, Macedonia, Romania. Okay. Yeah, I think that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

So Israel. Did I say Israel? You didn't say Israel. Israel as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

So, as far as being a a team builder, like those must be amazing experiences. Like, what are the biggest things you've learned from those experiences?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, you know, I'm glad that you made that distinction, right? Of like traveling a lot of different places, but then living somewhere, you know, spending a year or more in one of these places that's so different, and where you have to, and and then specifically, you know, with my job being a professional athlete there and playing on a team, yeah, like trying to figure out how you can come together with people from literally all over the world. And even when I played in Germany, you know, you got a German coach, you got a couple American players, you got a couple German players, but then you may have someone who's from Serbia, and you may have someone who's from Croatia, and you may, you know, it's like you're trying to figure out how all of these different puzzle pieces come together. And, you know, when you think about wine, you mentioned this earlier. Can we slow down, share some wine, and understand each other, get to know each other? And that's something that we had to do every single season. We had to figure out a way to come to a uh an understanding of our teammates. Who are you? How are you motivated? What can I learn about you that's gonna help us work better together on the court? Um, I was very fortunate to discover um high quality beer in Bayreuth. Um and that was something that that definitely brought us together. Yeah. Um, but you know, but you mentioned uh Pinot Noir in Germany. That's something that a lot of folks don't think about, but um, some fantastic Pinot Noir is coming out of Germany.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

It's the third largest grower of Pinot Noir in the world.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Uh but I don't hear a lot of people talking about it. No, at least not here.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah, so I there's the I I mean go to Baden-Württemberg and the Pfalz, Franken, uh even like on the western part of uh the Rheingau. Um that yeah, pretty amazing Pinot Noir. And we're we're not we're you know just uh seeing the beginning of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:33

But again, you know, just to get back to your question, it it's it was an an incredible opportunity to learn that that skill, which I truly believe is a skill of connection, right? I think it takes that genuine curiosity. I want to learn about you, I want to know who you are so that we can better work together. And you know, as you mentioned, in this kind of disconnected world we're in right now, I just wish that there was more of that. Yeah, and that's why I'm so grateful for one.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

And and I I don't know if you've had the same experience, but yeah, I mean, you you're living abroad for a long time. I just traveled, trave a fair amount. Um, for me, what I see is that we are so much more, have so much more in common everywhere around the world that then we have have things that are different, right? And and that like we don't necessarily realize how connected we are and really how we're all kind of like striving for similar things. And that's always my takeaway where I'm like, yeah, okay, like this is we are one global community, and like that that really is the reality.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

It's it's a beautiful thing when you when you discover that. Yeah, and and when you come to understand that, I think it's um it it completely transforms the the way that you think and the way that you think about other people, um, the way that you walk through life, the the you know, the compassion that you have for other people, um, and again, just that curiosity to to understand other people because like you said, we are more similar than we are different. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Um, you know, someone else who makes me think about that that same thought, Max, is um Gary Cronkleton. And I'd like to say thanks to Gary and the Cronkleton for your support of this podcast. Uh, a place where we go here in Chapel Hill, where we absolutely feel that energy of connection. Um, we we know that there's a community there, and I think that that Gary and his team have done such a great job of exactly what you said, right? Like, how do we highlight how we're alive? And that we all are looking for the same thing. We all want to be loved, we all want to be heard, um, you know, we all want to be appreciated and and cared for, um, and we want to connect with others, and that happens there, and so very grateful for the Cronkleton. Um Max, what is it about what is it about your role now at Bond that that gets you jumping out of bed in the morning and just super excited about you know another day at work?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

The people I work with, the wines, uh, the the wines that you know uh that the wine growing team uh makes each vintage. Uh the people that are are the fans and patrons of of the winery, uh, the Somolier community that supports it. Um you know, the really the the you know what the Harlan family's done is really remarkable, I think. You know, it's the this beautiful part in Appa Valley. They built it slowly uh with focus. We work on a 200-year business plan uh where you know decisions are made very very slowly, uh with a lot of intention. Uh and additionally, within that, you know, what we all have roles where we can laser focus in on the things that we do well. And I I don't know a lot of other companies that do this, but uh, you know, we're you talked about being pulled in lots of different directions. Uh the way that we operate is having specific people do specific roles that they can really master and do at the highest level. Whereas, you know, that would be one aspect of someone else's job, right? And so I I find that to be a beautiful thing, right? People really fine-tuning their skill set at something that that they're good at. And the they bring in uh so many talented people that I have the opportunity to learn from uh and work with. And um, you know, when you're in an environment like that, it's hard not to get out of bed and be inspired. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I have not had the opportunity to taste a wine from Bond. Maybe there's somebody out there that has. I hope there's somebody out there that has. Yeah. But for those who have not had wine from Bond, what would one expect from that experience?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

So we have five different single vineyards. Uh we're terroir focused across the board. And, you know, the way we came about uh is you know, Bill Harlan had a trip in 1980 to Burgundy and to Bordeaux, uh, put together by Robert Mundavi. And he fell in love with the idea that, you know, it's not necessarily about the grape, but it's about the vineyard. And the vineyard is what has the character that comes out in the wine. So from that trip, he started working uh in Napa Valley, you know, started working on Harlan estate, then working with Bob Levy, the founding director of wine growing. Uh, and together they started working 40 different vineyards up throughout Napa Valley, trying to understand the valley itself. Uh, after years of making wine from these vineyards, two of those really stood out. And they're like, wow, so these have the character we're looking for. Hillside vineyards, close to the bedrock, not high elevation necessarily, but coming off the valley floor in many ways. Uh, and and they're like, let's create a winery that is focused on terroir and focused on showing the diversity of Napa Valley. So Napa Valley is 30 miles long, five miles wide, 33 different soil types, elevations going from zero to 3,000 feet. Uh, and it's one of the few places in the world where you can fully ripen every single year Cabernet Sauvignon. So we use Cabernet Sauvignon as the lens for these five sites, much like Pinot Noir is the lens for Claude Mouche uh or or uh Romanet Saint-Vivant, right? Uh so you know, through that time, we started in 1996, we were founded. We have our 30th anniversary next year. 1999 was our first vintage. Since the 80s until now, we've worked with over 120 single vineyards, understanding them, getting to know the soil, making wine from them to narrow it down to the five that we have today.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

120. 120. Down to five.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Down to five. Wow. So it's, you know, talk about intention. The intention was really to find these vineyards that like have resonance, right? That that have the something, it's not just really great wine, but there's an energy underneath the wine that comes from the vineyard itself. So it's not necessarily not necessarily something. Remember, I mentioned so many words that you can't put words to it. It's a resonance within the wine that you feel ultimately. This is for me, right? And and Corey, who's been with the winery since 2001, he started as an intern. Bob Bob Levy was his mentor, then 2012 he started making the wines, and he took over as managing director in 2021. Like, those are the things he's focused on. Like build like understanding the energy of the vineyard and coaxing that out, uh, and the having it resonate within the wines itself. Uh I should have brought a bottle. No, no, no. That's okay. So I would, you know, next time we're together, I'm I'll I'll be sure to do that. But with these five vineyards, we have two in the Vaca Mountains, right, in the east. Uh one is uh nine acres Cuela, the other one seven acres Melbury, the one of the flagships. Um, they're on the more uh kind of delicate and spelt side or more elegant side, if you would. Uh you have softer tannins, more round mouth feel, uh, but just wonderful structure to them across the board. Uh on the valley floor, and we do have a hillside though, but it's on the valley floor in Sainedon in the eastern part of Oakville. Uh, there you you start getting a little bit more powerful tannins, more elevated acidity, uh, this wonderful uh kind of herbal aromatics, uh, and just great structure and longevity. Uh, and then that's kind of a bridge from elegance over to power. And then the power you get into the mayakamas, two vineyards in the mayakamas, Vicina, which is uh an eastern-facing vineyard, uh 11 acres, uh one in the that and St. Eden are the two largest. Uh, you get these just wonderful, um, powerful tannins up front, but balanced by fresh fruits, uh, herbal aromatics. There's kind of like a wise wisdom and cool confidence in that wine. And then Pluribus uh kind of referred to as the eccentric out of them all. It's the only one that's high elevation between 1100 and 1400 feet. Uh, and that is, you know, it smells like the like the California woods, right? Like redwoods and evergreens. You've got wild sage and chaparral, dark fruit, powerful mountain tannins, uh, and just really uh exceptional. So all the wines you you get to see how through one grape you take a journey through the terroir of Napa Valley in a lot of sense. Uh and it's every vintage, you know, like I said, you have these five different snapshots of what that vintage is like. Uh, and it is it's just endlessly fascinating. And when you get to taste these wines um and and become familiar, you get very fine-tuned into their kind of their their character, their their feeling, their energy, uh, and the way that that relates in in many different environments.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

That's great. Well, I look forward to um trying one of these.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Yeah, likewise, man.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Sooner than later.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Max, I, you know, I think you have in your role and in your journey, you've had the opportunity to talk a lot about wine and to meet a lot of people through wine. Is there something that you don't get to talk about or that people don't ask you about wine that that you want to mention?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Why is wine important? And I think we've covered that right today, but you know, like why do we spend so much time talking about wine, working w with vineyards, uh making wine lists, people writing about wine. There has to be something that that is really meaningful there. Um and the thing that's meaningful, really, I think we've talked about this whole time this whole time, is that connection, art, inspiration, elevation from the everyday, and just uh, you know vast interest and exploration of all of these regions and places and grapes and uh this uh you know 8,000 years of history. Um wine is important and and can bring so much to the enjoyment of life. Uh I think that's something that I talk about, but people don't ask. So maybe people don't want to know, but I I think in this time period when there is this, you know, kind of anti-alcohol movement, um, yeah, we we all know alcohol in excess is not good for nature, right? And and like we all try and live healthy lives. I try and live a healthy life, but you know, part of a healthy life is also enjoying great things. And and I I think one of the most beautiful uh things in the world, uh apart from being in the wilderness and great music, uh, and I think they're all on par uh is is wine.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Well, Max, thank you so much for being here with us this evening. We're again just honored to have you. Uh, we appreciate you shedding so much light on um all the knowledge that that you've brought to us this evening about wine, but but really, you know, to your point, telling us why wine is important and and really highlighting the connection and all the beautiful things that that wine does to help us get to this ultimate whole goal of being happy.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Cheers. Cheers to you, Marcus, and thanks a lot for having me on. I really appreciate it. It's an honor, my friend.

unknown 40:06

Thank you.