Two Hypnotherapists Talking...

Denise and Les Discuss Business and Referrals

• Season 8 • Episode 7

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Denise BIllen-Mejia MD CH 

www.healandberadiant.com office@aahypnosis.com

Les Roberts ACH       www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk  contact@lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk

Two Hypnotherapists Talking: Denise & Les Discuss Business and Referrals

(0:00) Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia here in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts in St Helens, United Kingdom.

Speaker 2

(0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.

Speaker 1

(0:19) I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children. (0:25) And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist. (0:29) We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode.

Speaker 2

(0:36) Come to you with what they would often say is a minor problem, but it's really impacting them. (0:43) What kinds of things?

Speaker 1

(0:45) Not so much now, but I used to get a lot of adults diagnosing themselves with anxiety disorder. (0:56) Coming in saying, my anxiety won't let me do this. (1:01) My anxiety does this to me.(1:04) I can't sleep because of my anxiety. (1:07) I can't go out because of my anxiety. (1:10) Did they know what was causing the anxiety?

Speaker 2

(1:13) Where it came from?

Speaker 1

(1:14) Yeah, sometimes. (1:17) However, yes. (1:18) So what I used to do is I used to ask them, first of all, I was quite to say, your anxiety, who's given it to you?(1:26) Who's given it to you? (1:28) Have you been diagnosed with anxiety? (1:30) And they'll go, no, I haven't.(1:33) Yeah. (1:33) So they haven't been diagnosed. (1:35) They've not had a formal diagnosis.(1:38) However, what they have done is diagnosed themselves, use that label and obviously been living up to that label as well. (1:47) Anxiety.

Speaker 2

(1:48) So once they, when they ask you, do you then say, would you like to try some hypnosis? (1:52) Would you like to try some chat with me and see if it works or do they come in seeking hypnosis because they're self-diagnosed?

Speaker 1

(1:59) So I explained to them that I am not qualified to diagnose anything. (2:05) All I can do is refer you back to your doctor. (2:09) Should you want a diagnosis of anxiety?(2:13) I do have a little anxiety questionnaire that I use with the adults, not with the children that can sort of.

Speaker 2

(2:22) Would you mind sending it to me?

Speaker 1

(2:24) No, I will send it to you. (2:26) Yeah. (2:26) A lot of adults will come in with self-diagnosed issues.(2:32) I have a phobia of this. (2:33) I have a phobia of that. (2:36) So again, I say to them, describe your phobia.(2:40) Why is it a phobia and not a fear? (2:43) And straight away, quite a few of them will go, Oh, I don't, I don't know. (2:47) I don't know the difference.

Speaker 2

(2:48) I think most people not having taught what they are, would say phobia is just worse fear. (2:55) It's a clinical word, so it must be a serious thing.

Speaker 1

(2:59) Yeah. (2:59) But we, we know, correct me if I'm wrong, Denise, that a phobia is something that's already happened to you. (3:05) You've had a past experience.(3:07) Say for instance, it was wasps or something. (3:10) You've had a past experience that's not been very good and it's.

Speaker 2

(3:15) Yeah. (3:16) Although very often, well, I would not, I would not define it that way. (3:24) Phobia is something that's, that's possible.(3:27) Fear is something that's possible. (3:28) Phobia tends to be unrealistic. (3:31) Like I personally have a phobia about sharks.(3:36) But you've never met. (3:37) Beca

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Two Hypnotherapist Talking with me in April and Mahia in Delaware, USA. And me, Let's Robert, in St. Helens, United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_01

This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.

SPEAKER_00

I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnosis. We are two hypnotherapists talking. So let's get on with the episode.

SPEAKER_01

Come to you with what they would often say is a minor problem, but it's really impacting them. What kinds of things?

SPEAKER_00

Not so much now, but I used to get a lot of adults diagnosing themselves with anxiety disorder. Coming in saying, My anxiety won't let me do this, my anxiety does this to me. I can't sleep because of my anxiety. I can't go out because of my anxiety. Where it came from? Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. However, yeah. So what I used to do is I used to ask them, first of all, I was quite to say, your anxiety. Who's given it to you? Who's given it to you? Have you been diagnosed with anxiety? And they'll go, No, I haven't.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So they haven't been diagnosed, they've not had a formal diagnosis. However, what they have done is diagnose themselves, use that label, and obviously been living up to that label as well. Anxiety.

SPEAKER_01

So when once they when they ask you, do you then say, Would you like to try some hypnosis? Would you like to try some chat with me and see if it works? Or yeah, I come in seeking hypnosis because they've done that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So I explain to them that I am not qualified to diagnose anything. All I can do is refer the you back to your doctor should you want a diagnosis of anxiety. I do have a little anxiety questionnaire that I use with the adults, not with the children, that can sort of. Do you mind sending it to me? I'll send it to you. Yeah. A lot of adults will come in with self-diagnose issues. I have a phobia of this, I have a phobia of that. So again, I say to them, describe your phobia. Why is it a phobia and not a fear? And straight away, quite a few of them will go, Oh, I don't I don't know. I don't know the difference.

SPEAKER_01

I think most people, not having been taught what they are, would say phobia is just worse fear. Yeah, it's a clinical word, so it must be a serious thing.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But we we know, correct me if I'm wrong, Denise, that a phobia is something that's already happened to you. You've had a past experience. Say, for instance, it was wasps or something, you've had a past experience that's not been very good, and it's yeah, although very often what I would not I would not define it that way.

SPEAKER_01

Phobia is something that's that's impossible. Fear is something that's possible, phobia tends to be unrealistic. Like I personally have a phobia about sharks. But you've never met ours. I I've met a dead one and I've seen lots at the aquarium. The aquarium has some beautiful ones, and I don't mind washing them when they're in in the water and protect I'm protected by a lot of glass. But it came about because we were on holiday in Cornwall and we were in fishing vails, I should walk when you walk down the and they'd bring in the catches, then we'd often have sharks hanging, and then we would like haunted my dreams for several days. Sorry for anybody listening who has a phobia for sharks.

SPEAKER_00

So can you explain to me then, Denise, what uh your take on a phobia?

SPEAKER_01

You being a retired doctor, what's your how would you think that's why it's harder to bear in a it's harder to address phobias, I think, because they they to the outside person they look ridiculous. Why am I scared of sharks? I don't live in the water, they live in the water, and that I think is the that is why it's hard for people to get rid of them because they never really encounter the actual thing.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So what's what's the difference between a massive fear and a phobia?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's not it's not the amount of fear that it engenders that makes it phobia. Phobia is really something that is unlikely to occur, but you have a definite fear.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so because you have a you can have a lot of symptoms, can't you, with with phobia? You can have you have a lot of symptoms of fear, I've got to be able to do it. Yes, of course you do.

SPEAKER_01

Do you ask them to go back to their doctor and make sure that they have something it's not medically pushed?

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't. I I do the there is certain things that I will check with the doctor to see if it's okay for me to treat them or to see them, and that would be if they are taking any medication for anything. But the majority of children that I see are not really on medication. I always ask permission to write to the their GPs afterwards to basically tell them what they've come to see me for and the outcome. Not war and peace, just a few sentences to see, you know, to tell them what's happened. I haven't heard anybody use that expression for a war and while they don't need to know, do they?

SPEAKER_01

It's all they need to know is that no, and they just you should keep your doctor informed of the other kinds of things that you're seeing people throw. Yeah, and it's just like if you're going to get if if you want to lose more than 20 pounds, you should tell your doctor it might affect the amount of medications that you're taking. It's all sorts of things that can be affected by other people.

SPEAKER_00

The only the only time that I've insisted, only a few times that I've insisted on getting their GP clearance, so to speak, first was a lady who came to see me who had been on antidepressants since she was 13. Lovely, lovely lady. Such a shame. She's more or less the same age as me, and she was diagnosed with having depression at like 13, 12, 13, and her doctor put her on medication. And she's been on it ever since. She's been on it ever since. She has exhausted, in her words, she's exhausted every single British antidepressant that she can she can take. So now she has hers imported. So she came to see me, she was in her 50s, she came to see me, just said, Do you know what? My whole life has been revolved around depression and how I feel and how I'm supposed to feel.

SPEAKER_01

And she's this was remember, I am a doctor, but I'm not giving you medical advice. That sounds like she should have been re-evaluated several times.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah. She was she was uh reviewed, but she said she was every time she was reviewed, they'd either up it or you know, they wouldn't try to bring her down, you know, slowly or anything. And she just said, I'm fed up. She said, I am in my 50s, I've missed the opportunity. This this is the truth. I've missed the opportunity of becoming a mum, becoming a wife. She said, I live in warden-controlled accommodation because I am classed as being competent enough to live on it on my own. She said, But I've just come over and she travelled over 30 miles on public transport to come and see me. She does her own. So she should be able to get to the shops again. Yeah, she does her own shopping, she does her own cleaning, she does her own washing, she does everything. But for some reason, she, you know, whoever it is, the powers that be have deemed her that she's not competent to be able to live on her own as independently as she wants to be. And she just lost her mum not long before she came to see me, and she said, I don't want to be in this situation for the rest of my life. She said, I may have missed out on having children, I may have missed out on many, many things, but now I want to see that I've got a future somewhere for the rest of the years, yeah. Yeah, to be able to do something.

SPEAKER_01

She can't have done any traveling, or you know, all the things that you sort of think of is when I grow up, I'm gonna do this, that, and the other.

SPEAKER_00

She didn't. Well, the more we got talking, the more I realized she was just wrapped up in in cotton wool by by her parents, but also on the advice of her doctors. And she didn't, she didn't do anything. She's never been to a theme park, she's never been abroad, she's never been on a plane. She'd been on trains because you've got the train and the bus to come and see me. She'd been on plane, uh, trains and buses. She's never had a relationship, never had a relationship with basically her life stopped at 13. Yeah, she wasn't allowed to grow into a doctor. Exactly. She was oh, she was so so kind and so loving, and she was so desperate as well that she wanted a life. What were you able to do for her? Well, uh, first of all, I got clearance off the doctor to see her because I thought, well, if she's on that many medications, I need and for so long. Yeah. Yeah, and for so long, yeah. So what we did is we set goals, and her goals were to feel happier, to smile on her own, you know, when she's on her own, and also to do things, to write a list to do things that she's never done before.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So we didn't fly around the world. What was what was her first?

SPEAKER_00

There was, I think there were three things. One of them was to join some kind of club and she could meet like-minded people, but also people that would give her some kind of confidence and give her give her something back. Yeah, she actually joined a choir. She joined she joined a knitting group. I think it was something like knit and a group. She joined a choir, and she wanted to go and do something that she'd never done before. She wanted to do some zip wiring. Like, woo. That would be a fear for me.

SPEAKER_01

I've done it.

SPEAKER_00

We have some.

SPEAKER_01

I I guess if I would I would fall out sky.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I've done it and uh did not land gracefully. I was on the other hand.

SPEAKER_01

So, how how long did how long did it take her to get to the point where she could do one of those things?

SPEAKER_00

Usually hypnosis. I kept in touch for quite a while actually afterwards, because I I do. And she joined the nattering knitting group within a a few weeks of what we started. We we had four sessions. She joined that, but it was local to where she lived, so you know she could still get there. And then she was joined. You don't want to say, Oh, I'm gonna go climb everything. You've got to start small. I I did I did help her in in trying to find something, but of course I did help her, but I I used a lot of my friends and contacts, you know, to see if anybody had anything. She joined the Knitty Nutters group, and then she was just going to have a chat with someone about the choir when our sessions have come to the end. That's that's pretty fast for some reason. Yeah, yeah. 14 years not being able to do anything. Exactly. Outside my therapy room on the because I'm on the first floor of a Victorian building, and on as you come out of my therapy room, you've got to go down like one and a half, one and a half sets of stairs. But right outside my therapy room on the on the wall is a massive mirror, and I put it there to do some work with kids, you know, about looking in the mirror with the children, and all around the mirror are labels that say, I am responsible for, and it's got like my behaviour, my actions, my thoughts, and it's just it's used for children, but adults do like it, and every time, even from the first session, every time she went out there, she just stood there just for a few moments and just smiled. And it was it was very endearing to see her do this because if she hadn't have done that, where would she have been? Yeah, does she still keep in touch? No, she doesn't now because this was probably about five, six before lockdown. So that's just six, seven years ago. She doesn't now, but I've still got a number, she still gets Christmas cards, but so do quite a lot of my clients anyway. So, as far as you know, she's still living in shelters. As far as I know, yeah. But she just those simple things, it wasn't anything that was unachievable, it was really achievable what she wanted to achieve, and it was lovely, it was really, really nice, and it made me look at my life as well and the life of the other clients that come in and think we should we should be so grateful for tiny little things, shouldn't we? And I felt really, really humbled and very honored that she chose me.

SPEAKER_01

One of the things that we that we often speak about smoking, we both of us will tell a client you you have to want the change for you. And smoking is an easy one because so many people are told by their grandchildren and blah blah blah blah blah to stop smoking unless they have internalized it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's not gonna happen. Her dad wanted to bring her, and and she said no, she said, I want to go on my own. Yeah, because he said, Oh, I'll take you so if you're getting on a train, you know, buses, and she said, No, I'll do it. But she'd never learnt to drive either. Probably not a good time to start. Not really, no. It's very endearing for me to see the change in her, and she wanted it so, so much. And you could see when she was coming in, she had life behind her eyes and everything. It was lovely, it was really nice. Yeah. If you want to change, change is always possible. I do check with GPs if anybody's on any medication to see if we're okay. You know, that's the last thing I want to do is to tread on, you know, somebody else's toes and be responsible for something. But funnily enough, when I did my training, I don't know whether you you was the same. When I did my training, we were advised that we could see people who suffer with epilepsy as long as the medication, if they were medicated, the medication was they were stable on the medication, but also asked to ask them if they had an episode, what would they want me to do?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah. Well, I will see people with it, but I will not see them online unless there's somebody in the house with them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I always get permission for everybody's doctor because I want to make sure I've got the most complete medical history I can get. And it isn't because I've got a fascination with your personal issues. I just I want to know that I'm not going to do anything that might cause a seizure. Some people's seizures are set up as they go to sleep. Well, hypnosis is near sleep, it's not sleep, but it's close. And you just don't need to make anything work. And it's a very good way of letting doctors know that hypnosis is a real thing.

SPEAKER_00

I think it helps. Yeah. So I see quite quite a lot of children, a wide variety of different issues that children come in to see me for. A lot of children I have seen for obsessive compulsive um behaviors. I am actually seeing a girl now who taps, she taps an awful lot. She has to tap so many times on things. She wants to go out with. She sounds embarrassing, probably. Yeah, she wants to go out with friends. She's going to college in September and she just feels that it will become more.

SPEAKER_01

She's got to make new friends. She's got Yeah. You nobody everybody wants to present their best self, right? Yeah. When you're working with somebody like her, for example, you would you would give a guesstimate of how much time it'll take. If you feel the person needs more support, or if the person feels they need more support, are you able to continue to see them when they've moved away?

SPEAKER_00

I do actually explain this to parents that I will recommend so many sessions. However, if they don't progress as much as I had planned, then I would suggest further sessions. And if they want, because they're used to me, they can have them online, and a lot of parents will support that as well. Question sort of my brain isn't working today. I need more caffeine. What else do children come in with? A lot of anxiety, an awful lot of anxiety.

SPEAKER_01

I but often that anxiety has a real basis.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Have been asked to see quite a few children, domestic violence. So once the perpetrators left, I've been asked to see the child. I have had three children as a family have been to see me for their dad completing suicide. How soon after the death did you see the kids? It wasn't long actually. It was only a couple of months. And the only reason why I thought that was good because a lot of people will wait for a year or two for this. It was nothing to do with the bereavement, it was to do with the trauma that that bereavement uh had caused, and in the way that dad had let had left, so to speak. That was very traumatic for the children. So what I did is I made sure that I looked after myself and I got some support as well. Because I think it's really, really important for us to get that support, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

That's an interesting little spin on the issue of mental health. And we want to have therapists of all kinds, doctors of all kinds, need to make sure they've got their own support available.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, we do, because I remember opening the place where I am now, and I remember opening that. I was only open eight and a half weeks and then COVID hit. But I do remember that when I went back to work afterwards, I was very busy, which was a nice thing, but I didn't look after myself. I didn't look after myself at all. And I burnt out to the point where I was I was quite ill. So you do have to have that support because you do have to have that relief. What I do at the end of the day is I will lock everywhere up, I will, you know, close all the cabinets, make sure all my notes are up to date and everything. And the last door to be locked before I go downstairs is my clinic door, and it's a very heavy door. Imagine that a big victory. If all the problems on the other side of the door, and as soon as I turn the key, that's it. It's as if I drop everything, and when I get back the next day, or they're not there. And I have And when you open that door, do they immediately get you when you're gradual? Well, that's good. Yeah, I it took quite a lot of practice to do this, but it was the only way that I could do it because we spent we do spend a lot an awful lot of time on our own, don't we? So it was a case of I either do something or I go into meltdown again. That's my way. And a sick therapist is not then likely to be able to do much help. Yeah. So that's the way I do it. And my son and my daughter, they both laugh and they shake their heads and they go, Oh, she's off again. And I try and I try and explain to them, listen, this is what I do because I drop everybody's issues, but still they just think, Oh, it's not a good thing. It's mum, she's gone off on one again or something. But it works, it does, and it works for me. And I get an awful lot of support from a few clubs that I'm in, like the growth club that I'm in, but I also get a lot of support from fellow hypnotherapists as well, where I'll support them and they'll support me as well. I get fantastic support off my family.

SPEAKER_01

I as a little little plug for hypnotists of all the professions I have been adjacent to and in, it is the mo the least performance judge, I think is what it is. If if a hypnotist is doing well, all the other hypnotists will applaud and be very happy for them because. As a rising tide lift source ships, right? Yeah. The more we get more people that understand how hypnosis works and is useful, the more people we're not in competition with each other, are we?

SPEAKER_00

We're in we're we should be there to lift each other up and to praise each other and to share best practices and everything, not to push each other down or step on each other as we as we make our way up. I've just realized, Denise, as I've sat here, I look as if I've just been auditioning for Orange is the new black. Yes, you are very orange, but that's okay, it's a good color for you. Not to wear it again online. But yeah, it's it is a profession where there's there's a lot of egos in hypnosis, isn't there? A lot of egos in hypnotherapy. But if you can manage the egos, it's a nice place to be. It is a nice place to be. There is one.

SPEAKER_01

I can't I lucky that I can't remember his name, so don't worry about it, but he's a prick. Um, there's one guy, and I would I would meet him various things. I was he terrified of actually having to interact with him because he seemed so aggressive. When we're not off camera, I'll tell you who these when I finally met him in one of those breakout rooms that you have now the brawl online, he's the sweetest person. But it was I I honestly don't think I've met any him who I felt was mostly out for what they could get from the professional. Oh, right. Most people truly want to help. Yeah, and they want to help other therapists. So I have. I've had a few experiences here of she will be one of our last guests, um, or or first at the next one. Um she is really successful and has been from the get-go. I don't know how she went from the job that she was doing before to being able to market herself, but she was it just happened and she just took off. And she is incredibly helpful to everybody in that profession.

SPEAKER_00

I'm I'm still a member of Sheila's group, and I would recommend it to anybody, any hypnotherapist who wants to join me. Because we work a lot on our own, it's not just that bit about being isolated, it's that also of being accountable for for what you're doing. And when you're sat there and you're thinking, oh, am I gonna market this? How am I gonna do this? That club is possibly one of the things because no question's a silly question. No question is no question is is unworked. It won't be the first time it's been asked either. No, it won't be, but in other groups that you can go online on Facebook or wherever, you ask a question and you will get bombarded. I'm not saying everywhere, but in some places, you will get bombarded by certain people that will go, somebody's asked this, you know, a few months ago. Look up in your notes. You shouldn't be practicing if you don't know this. And you just think, well, I won't, I just won't ask that question again. Whereas in Sheila's group, no. Anybody did they get squashed very quickly. Yeah. And also everybody wants everybody else to succeed. It isn't a case of uh, you know, you've written a book, you've written a book, I've written a book, the you know, how many did you sell? We we all just want to help each other. We'll ask that question because we genuinely want to know. Yeah, we do. I still I still attend. I've been a member for about five years now. I joined just after lockdown. Um I joined during lockdown.

SPEAKER_01

She did just find with the channel. She was the first non I was I was at school hypnosis school uh until the end of 2019. I graduated in October. So I practice then. And hers was the next group I joined. Yeah and and from there I I changed the legions. I was registered through the hypnosis association that I had trained at, and then I switched to Hypnosis Guild. Yeah National Guild Hypnosis, which is a very, you know, it's been around forever. And there's so many people from so many different backgrounds.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was very tempted by the medical and dental one, but uh I'm taking this this one's a little more cost sensible where I am.

SPEAKER_00

Being in Sheila's group, I know we are hoping that Sheila will join us uh for this season and not next season. Being in Sheila's group has given me an opportunity to find my niche, even though I'm I knew and I wanted to work with children, but find it, push myself, and also get recognition for what I do. So without Sheila, I wouldn't have spoken at the UK hypnosis convention. Yeah, I wouldn't have applied again. So this is the third year that I've applied. We we should get the off replies by the end of March as to whether we're successful or not. So it depends. And I also I'm speaking in Antwerp, May, which is another hypnotic 2026, it's called. So without Sheila and Sheila helping me to believe in in myself, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have known they existed. Sheila's group also keeps you very accountable for your actions, but also for you know to move you forward. Sheila wants you to succeed.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody else in the group, as you know, you've been there as well. They want you to succeed. Yeah, well, several of the people who've been guests through all eight seasons have been members of that group.

SPEAKER_01

That's how Martin and I met. Yes. Because I I invited him and another person from the group to to join me in a different conference that wasn't a hypnosis conference. And and uh we realized we really hit it off and talk several times a week anyway. So why not let other people listen to us babbling on as we are now? Obviously, you are kindred spirits.

SPEAKER_00

Our guest, Tony Gordon. I met Tony, I met Tony through the growth club, and we're still friends. Tony, we support each other. So anything new that I have, Tony supports me, I support him. If you think about everybody who you've not everybody, but everybody who you've met while the course of uh you being qualified, it's a massive, massive group, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Of and it's so weird because it's only when you become a hypnotist that you realize how many hypnotists are out there. Yeah. Before I study, before I found the school, I didn't know there was hypnotists in town. One of the first people I met online in a group was somebody from my hometown, Salisbury. Really?

SPEAKER_00

Really goodness, but yeah, it's it's nice though, isn't it? And there is there is a lot of people out there to to get some help.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of people I do think one I would I would put sort of a writer to this episode. If you think you have a serious problem with anxiety or fears, whether you want to call them phobias or fears, fine. Just give one of us a call. But we will ask you to talk to your doctor first, and that's a good place to start. For all of these things, I think my leg's broken. Let me go ask somebody who's qualified to say I have it or not. That's what really you should do. If your doctor does not know any hypnotists, ask them if they'd like to be in touch with either of us, depending on which country you're in. And we will be happy to introduce them to several in their area. Yeah. I I blew somebody away uh a while ago. I was using uh a lady who was from Macedonia. She was working in Germany, but so she was helping with some interest stuff. And she said, I said, but you need you need somebody who speaks your the the language that your body understands. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna find one of those. Half an hour later, I give me two names.

SPEAKER_00

It is a very supportive community. My tutor now has his own academy and he lives in Portugal. I've stayed friends with him ever since. I stay in touch with him and his lovely wife, and I've actually delivered my course of working with children with him. What I said that I will do is even though I can offer a working with children's diploma for either newly qualified hypnotherapists or hypnotherapists that want to work with children, I want to develop a course now on mental health for children. Because, and the reason why I want to do it is because where I live in the UK, there the NHS has their own mental health service for children, which is called CAMS. So it's child and adolescent mental health service. For CAMS, the referral process is from your GP or I think schools can refer or another department in the hospital, they're only taking on tier four. And when I left the NHS in 2014, they were still only taking on tier four.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, but with all due respect to the natural health and its budgetary problems, yes, yeah. It it's so much better to stop these things when they get started, then you're still the one or two. You don't need to go all the way to four to get better.

SPEAKER_00

But I'm a massive believer in early intervention, I fly the flag for it for early intervention all the time. So I don't believe that a child we have to wait until a child is at crisis or the family's at crisis, or worse until the child is has been seen. So I am campaigning week after week after week in different ways, talking to people, social media, in different ways to get people to realize that there is alternative therapies out there. Yes, we're private, but there is alternative therapies out there. By the time the parents come to me, I'm usually the last resort and they're defective.

SPEAKER_01

I am I'm a little tired of hypnosis being the last thing. The only good part of that is that people often, because they've tried everything else, now are finally bottling down and doing the work. It's not hard work, but the person who is being hypnotized is responsible for their outcome.

SPEAKER_00

And it's a shame really because the NHS do recognize hypnosis for IBS, and I know we've discussed it before on another one of our episodes that midwives do use it for childbirth.

SPEAKER_01

I can't remember her name, but there's a hypnosis. Hypnosis is used for anesthesia in Belgium, at least. Yes. Admittedly, not for everybody. Because there's all sorts of things that have to go on. When you're when you're using hypnosis and somebody's also under game undergoing what might be a an an uncomfortable procedure like dentistry, the people in the room can't chatter. They have to be quiet. That's very unnatural. The operating room is full of what you're doing, who's bought what, what car you're getting. It's there's all sorts of conversations. Because though they are concentrating on what they're doing, this is something they've done a gazillion times before, usually. Not always, but usually. And so using hypnosis is a little bit more of a strain on the rest of the staff. But the outcome is brilliant. It is much faster to come around.

SPEAKER_00

There's a hypnotist in Switzerland called Nicole, and Nicole has started working with surgeons to help during surgery. Now I've I've had a few surgeries, but I've always had a general anesthetic. Last September I had to go and have an operation on my foot, and I kept saying to the anaesthetist, I'm not very keen on general anesthetic. I always feel sick, the words, and and he said, Have you ever thought about spinal? Have you ever thought of epidural? So I said, No, I said I've never been offered it. And he said, Well, you can have it today if you want. This is when I went in to have my surgery. And I said, Yeah, great. The recovery was so much easier, so much quicker. And I do, I do appreciate that there is some surgery. I mean, it doesn't work very well for for dental work. Yeah, yeah. But the difference in my recovery was just I I had no side effects as in I didn't feel sick, I didn't feel I didn't have a headache.

SPEAKER_01

Right, but but also we're not knocking anesthesia. Yes, absolutely. No, not at all. But but there are so many things available that we should be able to be alternate. There's no such thing as alternative health. Complimentary medicines should be explored.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And this is why I think that maybe if the recovery rate is as good as it was with me, then it should be offered a lot more. And I was wide awake with my foot up in the air. I couldn't, I didn't watch it because the very clever anaesthetists were keeping me distracted so I didn't look and everything. And it was great, absolutely great.

SPEAKER_01

When I was doing my general surgery rotations, uh, I went in was one of the first ones I was in the OR as a potential physician, and they used a spinal, and John was having one of his toes removed, and that was the the general surgery. He was one of those people that kept changing specialties within surgery. So he he was a third-year surgery resident, but he'd done about seven years of surgery in various other areas. So he he popped the stick off. The patient was laughing and joking with the hypnoticist across the screen.

SPEAKER_00

So if anybody would like to ask us any questions, or if you'd like to come on to the next season.

SPEAKER_01

And it's fine if you're if you're just interested in hypnosis. You don't have to be a hypnosis. No, we're not gonna, we're not gonna record, we're not gonna air anybody who's just hypnosis, but we're but we're very happy to talk to people who are interested in uh hypnosis might be useful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it would it would be nice to hear from anybody who has any questions or whether they let us know how our podcasts have gone. So I'd like to know how I filled those massive shoes of Martin's.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So and also you're the person doing the editing.

SPEAKER_01

I'm very lucky, I'm just getting to be the first person on the bell. But Martin needs to do it too, so I I've gotten very used to somebody else handling all the paperwork.

SPEAKER_00

It's been a massive learning curve for me because I've never I'm not very tech savvy or anything. So learning how to edit videos is just and and and add things in as well, like the intro, the outro, you know, and all of that. It's just I'm I'm patting myself on the back, you know. I've done well. The girls done well for this time. So, yeah, if anybody's interested, please let us know. And and we promise we'll have be a bit more organized for next next season.

SPEAKER_01

We'll know what we're gonna talk about before we hit start.

SPEAKER_00

See you soon. Take care, everybody. We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis and it's for educational purposes only. So remember to talk with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.