with guest Wendy White

Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH www.healandberadiant.com              office@aahypnosis.com

Les Roberts ACH www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk contact@lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk

Wendy Woo https://www.wendywoo.uk/mymoodstars                                          Linked-in www.linkedin.com/in/motherofmoodstars

 Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor (0:26) and consultant hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. Good afternoon, good evening, or good morning, (0:44) wherever you are in the world today. We have a lovely special guest on today with Denise and I, (0:50) Two Hypnotherapists Talking.And we have the delightful Wendy White, who's joined us today. (0:56) Hello, Wendy. (0:57) Hello, I'm Les.(0:59) Hello. (0:59) Hi, Denise. (1:00) Hi.And you're freshly back from vacation, so you're all ready for this, right? (1:06) It was hot and sunny, so I was very lucky because back in the UK, you had the most awful weather, (1:14) so I was delighted. And actually, now I'm back, the weather hasn't been too bad. I just don't (1:20) think they know I'm back yet, because usually I am known as the rain woman.(1:25) Well, it's raining up here in St. Helens, and we've had very, very high winds the last, (1:32) say, two to three days. (1:33) And we, having had a 75 degree temperature in last week, are now expecting some snow. (1:41) Isn't that lovely? (1:42) More snow.More snow. (1:45) Yeah. Get three English people together and they talk about the weather.(1:48) Okay, Wendy. I haven't met you before today. Hello.Could you briefly explain to our audience (1:56) what you actually do? You're not a hypnotist, right? (2:00) It's so lovely to meet you too, Denise. Yes, now I am a retired childminder from (2:07) Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire in the UK. And I was a childminder for 22 years.(2:17) And in that time, we were governed by Ofsted, and we had to follow the Early Years Foundation stage. (2:28) So this is pretty new to us, because I registered as a childminder in 2000. (2:35) And then in 2014, I think it was, the Early Years Foundation stage came in, (2:42) and we childminders became, well, teachers that had to implement areas of learning.(2:51) Not just implement them, but evidence them as well for when Ofsted came to call. (2:56) What was the age that you were dealing with? (3:00) I looked after children from one year to nine, but the nine-year-olds tended to be after-school kids. (3:10) Well, the nine-year-olds, I'm okay with you deciding how much they should have learned in (3:14) X amount of time, but a one-year-old? Yes, a one-year-old.(3:20) Can I stand up by myself is the question. It doesn't matter how old they are, (3:25) you still have to evidence and implement their learning and their growth and their development. (3:34) Everything had to be observed and then noted, and I had a file for each of the children (3:42) with their steps, their progress, first words.Nowadays, it's all computerized, (3:50) and in the States, I think they call it Huckleberry. (3:53) Wouldn't surprise me. My kids are way older than that.(3:57) I can't remember now what the software application is, but generally now, (4:05) childminders use software applications to relay and recount everything that they've (4:11) learned from the children, all their observations. But in the old days, (4:16) everything had to be written down. It t

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

I'm quite cut off. We are two hypnotherapists talking. Good afternoon, good evening, or good morning wherever you are in the world today. We have a lovely special guest on today with Denise and I, two hypnotherapists talking, and we have the delightful Wendy White who's joined us today. Hello, Wendy. Hello, I'm Des. Hi Denise. Hi. And you're freshly back from vacation, so you're all ready for this, right? It was hot and sunny, so I was very lucky because back in the UK you had the most awful weather. So I was delighted. And actually now I'm back, the weather hasn't been too bad. I just don't think they know I'm back yet, because usually I am known as the rain woman. Well, it's raining up here in St. Helens, so uh, and we've had very, very high winds the last say two to three days. And we having had a 75-degree temperature of last in last week, and I'm expecting some snow, isn't that lovely? More snow. More snow. Yeah, well. Three English people together and they talk about the weather. Okay, Wendy. I haven't met you before today. Hello. Could you briefly explain to our audience what you actually do? You're not a hypnotist, right? It's so lovely to meet you two, Denise. Yes, now I am a retired childminder from Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire in the UK. And I was a childminder for 22 years. And in that time, we were governed by Ofsted, and we had to follow the early years foundation stage. So this is pretty new to us because I registered as a childminder in 2000, and then in 2014, I think it was, um, the early years foundation stage came in, and we childminders became well teachers that had to implement areas of learning, not just implement them, but evidence them as well for when Ofsted came to call. What was the age that you were dealing with? I looked after children from one year to um nine, but the nine-year-olds tended to be after school kids. Okay. Well, the nine-year-olds, I'm okay with you deciding how much they should have learned in X amount of time. But a one-year-old Can I stand up by myself? They they still you still have to evidence and implement their their learning and their growth, growth and their development. Everything had to be um observed and then noted, and I had a file for each of the children with their steps, their progress, first words. And this sort of nowadays it's all computerized, and there's in the States, I think they call it Huckleberry. Wouldn't surprise me. And then there's um I I don't I can't remember now what the uh software application is, but generally now child minders use software applications to re to relay and recount everything that they'd learnt from the children or their observations. Um but in the old days everything had to be written down. It took ages and ages. Um, I wasn't really uh Is this an attempt to make sure that kids with deficits of one kind or another don't slip through? Are you are you charged with pointing out to the parents your son should be able to say two words by now if you take him to the doctor of his hearing check? Or what why is it your problem and not the parents' problem of the parents? Well, I was there to support the parents.

unknown 4:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

However, I I I know children very well, and I know that just because Josh is saying two words at 18 months doesn't mean to say that Sarah is going to be saying two words at 24 months. It just doesn't work like that. It's really fun. I have three sons, all of whom are well past that stage in their 30s. But the first two are just under I a smidge under two years apart. The first one are m complicated sentences, multi-clause sentences before he was 15 months. Wow. The second one didn't talk too much about too. Because why? I've got everything I need, I don't need to talk. Do you know what? I think that parents are stressed enough without somebody coming and saying, Oh, you know, I think we should be talking a little bit more than that, you know, which you know, the kids learn through play, they learn through a positive, sensitive role model. They learn from somebody talking to them and interacting with them. And that's what I did. I didn't like this tick box mentality of right, you've got to be doing that at this and got to be doing that. Parents are stressed enough. I was stressed enough. So it maybe. Yes, but they don't look stressed, but they are so so yes. I mean, so it was very laid-back atmosphere. I the children led the play um because I soon learned that if I spent an hour on an activity, uh-uh, they weren't going to be interested. So I stopped that. So I I led them. They sorry, they led me, and um I just um helped them with their play, supported their play, developed their play. So I gave them uh building blocks to develop their play as they went on. So they've done this. Well, how about we add that? Or how about now we try this? So so that's that's an organic way of doing it. You're you're with the child. Yes. It's it's like yeah. Learning to read. They're not learning to read, but they do learn where the picture is and the words you say when the picture comes along. Or to read it to you. But that put an awful lot of pressure onto you though, Wendy, didn't it, as as a child minder? Because even though it's yes, it's your responsibility to be responsible for the care of the child, was it your responsibility to make sure that they're hitting those milestones? But they're spending so much of the time with the child, yeah. I don't know. I do what I do understand that, but I I don't know. I don't I don't know. Well, in a word, yes, it it was up to it was up to a lot of the responsibility was put on my shoulders. However, as for the reasons that I've just relayed, I didn't I didn't do it. Unless there was something really concerning me, then I wouldn't bring it up as an issue. And you know what? Parents know their children so well. There was hardly anything that I noticed before the parents. But they didn't know everything. Yeah. Yeah, and also um I know being being with other children, they develop their social skills, don't they? It can help with communication, it can help with a a wide range of skills like sharing, understanding, listening, you know, and and all of those things. However, as a child minder though, it's a lot of responsibility to have that where you you know you need to tick boxes to say that a child's reached this milestone and that milestone, considering when you went into it, that wasn't what it was all about, was it? It wasn't. When when we first when I first started, when we to be honest, when I first started as a child minder, it was home from home. I'd sit down with a cup of tea, watch neighbours, do some ironing. Right. Children would be playing around my feet. Well, not when I was ironing, obviously. Um but it was home from home, and that's how I advertised my setting. This is a home from home environment. So when Ofsted came in in the early years foundation stage, it was a big shift because I had to by law note and observe and make sure that the children were following their development uh stepping steps. And do they require this of parents as well? I mean, there's a lot of parents a huge number of people have to put their kids in care so they can go to work, but not everybody does. Do the people who have their own children with them at home also have to fill out these uh pieces of information for the world? I just when they're gonna see the doctor, they're just like this yet, couldn't do that yet. Do you think that was why it was so silly, really? Because there were parents at home with their children. They didn't have to do all of that sort of stuff. I think they just wanted to stop me watching neighbours. Do you do you think that it was it was just something that they could that offstead could in could put in place, you know, for you to to carry out that would ensure that children are. It sounds awful this when I say this, but um I'm sure you you know I don't mean it in a derogative way, but to make sure that children are being looked after and and they are being that the town handers are being attentive and not just like you said, just leaving them to play and feeding them and sending them home. Yes, I I think that was a large part of it, but also from the Victoria Climbier case. Yeah, and um the Victoria Climbier case was a case where a child was um neglected, terribly neglected. Social workers saw the girl again and again and again. Um, nothing was done, there were no uh red flags, even though the case had whistleblowers behind it, and people were, you know, trying to get help for this little nine-year-old girl. And then eventually, unfortunately, she passed. And there was a big, big um, you know, is a huge issue here in the UK. And I think that was one of the things that brought a white paper out to say that um the government wanted to really crack down on children and their care. And I think that that's Was this child care cared for at home or was she in daycare of some kind? She was cared for at home. She wasn't in daycare at school. Was she in in school during daycare? Yeah, she was in school, yeah. And were the teachers not noticing that they were yes, they were, but the social workers wouldn't couldn't flag it up for whatever reason. When they got to the house, everything was fine. But the girl was starving. Yeah, she wasn't she wasn't in care at all. She was in care, she her auntie wasn't it, that looked after her. Oh, it wasn't auntie, it was her auntie party. Yes, you're right. She wasn't auntie who was looking after her. Yeah, she wasn't in any care, you know, as in childminder at all. So it just seems maybe maybe they maybe they thought about this and thought, well, tell you what, let's put it out to um child minders as well, make sure that everybody else is looking for. Because they don't make the channels reportable with it. Oh, exactly. Yeah, no, I agree. And it was a very sad case. I will put the link on the end. I'll put a link to Victoria Climbier at the end. So if anybody wants to read about her, then she can. They can out when it before it goes on YouTube. I'll actually put the link on. So was that the case that sort of changed everything in the reporting world and what you were doing? Well, yeah, it was very sad. It was really sad, wasn't it? But when you do anything to do with safeguarding now with children, that's one of the points, isn't it, Wendy, that they actually bring up about Victoria Klimbier and what happened and why some of these things are in place now to ensure that it doesn't happen to any other child again. I think safeguarding now is is key. I think that since the Victoria Klimbier case, the safeguarding has improved. There's um apps now that people can download to structure their set structure their safeguarding routines. Lots of training, lots of training for younger people not to be afraid to whistleblow just in because they think that they might get into trouble. Yes, it's it's it's a big thing now, safeguarding, and that's that's really good. I mean, it's so sad that it happened because of Victoria, but it has happened, and people now in early years and at school are making sure that safeguarding is uh is very, very, very important. I understand, I do understand, but really sometimes I do think that they are reaching out to the wrong people. I do understand that, you know, as a childminder, you do have that responsibility to look after the child, but to actually be responsible for them meeting their milestones, you're not a teacher, but you're there to literally look after the child and safeguard that child. If I'm wrong, Wendy, tell me, but that's that's so many of those things that so many of those milestones are essentially they they won't just happen. You don't teach your child to stand up. No, it just decides it wants to one day and does. And I thought so, I didn't like the box mentality. I just didn't agree with that at all. So um so is that why you left, or did you um did you just think, well, I'm gonna do something else? Because I know what you do now, so uh, which you can talk about. Oh yes. So you must tell us what do you do now? Aside from jets around the world visiting a sister, what else do you do? I came out of uh actually I had my um Ofsted inspector come to see me in 2016 when I had made the mood stars. Now the mood stars are something that I've developed because part of the earlier foundation stage was uh personal, social, and emotional well-being, and there weren't any resources. Oh, I think I think we're being shown a mood star. Yeah, we've been bitted. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, Wendy. Yeah, the little one. I like the little one, it's cute. Yeah, so um I decided that I would make something because there weren't the resources available, and the resources that were available were were ridiculously expensive. So I set about making some little felt stars. I don't know why they were stars, they just that was the first thing that fell out of my sewing box. Um, I embroidered uh different emotions on each of the eight stars happy, sad, silly, scared, worried, shy, sleepy, and angry, and sent them out to fellow child minders who put them in their story sacks or just had them for free play so that they could evidence and um implement personal, social, and emotional development by using the mood stars, talking to the children about social concepts, about personal concepts, about emotional concepts. You know, why do you think that the uh why do you think Happy Star is smiling? Why do you think this and and really encouraging children to start talking about their feelings and also evoking dialogue which children may not have actually divulged without seeing the mood stars and without talking to the mood stars? So they became a very powerful uh tool. And when I told the um Ofsted inspector about these mood stars, he said, you know what? He said, there is a huge market for something like this. Something soft and tactile that children love. They can hold. When you do retire, because I talked to him about retiring, when you do, he said, I strongly suggest that you market these because you you know that they will be so valuable. So I did. I did do that. I sourced, I went to, I didn't go to China, but I I sourced six factories in China and whittled them down to two who are still working for me because I wanted sustainability, I wanted the a green uh kind of like effect with with biodegradable materials. I wanted them to get what the mood stars were about. And these two absolutely totally do, and I and I trust them with my life. They are so so good. How do you market though? Do you do you have shops that carry these or is it? No, no, no, I don't have shops. I did all my marketing first of all through Instagram and Facebook and for the first couple of years, and then I got onto Twitter as it was and LinkedIn, and slowly and surely my website told me that more people were buying them through word of mouth. So they'd seen a childminder have them, so they bought one because where the field where it says where did you hear from us was less and less Facebook and Instagram, but more from more from another child minder, from a nursery school, from a playgroup, from this, that, and the other, which was brilliant for me because it meant that people were seeing them, showing them to other people who thought, Oh wow, I need these, and then they were buying them also. And these are not the the children get all eight of these emotions. They get all eight to engage with. Yes. Now the backs of the stars are velcro receptive, so that they stick to stick on my shoulder. Yes. They stick to the scratchy, they stick to the scratchy side of the velcro. So each of the stars comes with a little badge, not suitable for under threes, that um stick to the stick to the badge. So the children can actually wear the mood that they're feeling and swap it throughout the day to uh reflect how they're feeling. There's also the My Mood Stars board, um, which uh which has both. But they're all the same colour. That was something I was wondering too. If you had a variety of colours, a child might just prefer a colour, never mind what the face set on it. But I had thought of that, but because my minimum order quantity is 2,000 sets in in one colour, it just wasn't economically viable. Yeah, people might not have wanted blue when I'd ordered 2,000 blue, or they might not have wanted red. So I just thought I'm gonna stick with yellow. It's an i it's a palm colour, it's uh people like it. Stars are yellow. Yeah. So don't tell the stars, but okay. Well, I've I've actually I've actually bought this is where I met Wendy on LinkedIn and we got talking, didn't we? And and I bought the mood star set. So I've got a big cushion, that's smiley face and and sad face, and I've also got the the board, yes. I've also as Wendy's showing us now, a happy face and a sad face. And I've also got the board with the eight stars on, and I use it, even adults. If it's out in my therapy room and an adult comes in, they say a lot. Yeah, and and because they are very tactile, very soft and everything, so it's just nice for children to communicate using them because imagine in in my line of work when they when a child comes to see me they're obviously not feeling quite right are they so to ask a child how they're feeling and they'll go I don't know I use the mood stars I used to have I used to have stones that I've I've painted my husband painted and he used to have these big pebbles from I collected them off the beach on um oh in Westwood Ho so I I don't think I'd be able to go back there now I'd probably get arrested for take because you're not allowed to take things off the beach are you? Yeah also and my husband painted them. If the kid decides to throw a star at them you'll probably survive not a stone necessarily exactly that's why when I heard about Wendy's mood stars I thought well then so much safer for me and for our for all my furniture and the windows and you know and everything else so uh so I bought them and they've they've been absolutely fantastic absolutely fantastic and that's lovely to hear yes that's it is lovely. So yeah I'm just saying so now they are in um in in the eight years that I've been uh developing them they're in over 5,000 early year settings now two major London hospitals um therapy clinics like yours Les autism associations care homes children's homes um anywhere where there are children family homes so yeah because the elderly love them as well yeah yeah they are they're fantastic little kits that I can I can use for uh for children both you've got both state both the agents you know older people much older people and very young children who don't have the verbal skills to explain can show you a sad face because they know what that means. Yeah yes and also I don't want anything too confusing I just wanted the basic expressions rather than confused and proud and disappointed simple didn't you wanted something simple didn't you that children would understand. Yeah exactly now what I I use mine like I said to ask children how they feel but I also use them at the beginning of my sessions and at the end of the session as well just to see that shift. So for instance if the child will pick up the sad one at the beginning and then at the end pick up the happy one then I will actually talk about it and say well this is the one that you chose this earlier on and this is the one now. What's the difference? How do you feel? And that helps children to get a greater understanding of of their emotions and feelings because when they're a bit bewildered and overwhelmed it's very difficult for them to actually verbalize how they feel I also think they are absolutely fantastic for nonverbal children as well. Yes absolutely amazing yeah neurodiverse children nonverbal children I have a couple of children that I see who are select mute the fantastic absolutely fantastic little piece of kit to use about a year ago I got an email from a um a speech and language therapist who looked after a little uh boy who was uh nonverbal and uh she had the mood stars and they were playing together and to cut a long story short he was able to divulge a very serious safeguarding issue and now the abuser has has left and that child is safe and that wouldn't have happened without the Mood stars. If the child was non-verbal how did he manage to communicate that through the sad star the angry star just I mean if just probably by by doing this or you know just I I don't know she didn't go into detail but the thing is that he was able to that was what we're all the information out. Yeah exactly so uh yeah that was it's they're very they're they're a very powerful tool. So Wendy I know for the I know Denise when Denise sends this recording out Denise's um the audio version but you've just held up a star with it has it got a diaper on has it got an appy on this is from my very good friend Claire Clement I'm gonna ask one of the two of you please send me a photograph I will of the of the eight so that I can put it on the I will on the web yeah I I really think it's very cute. Now Claire Claire has a company called uh positive pants right and again she does a lot like we do uh do theirs and and and Denise we she um helps children to gain a positive attitude so I made these little pants with the positive pants logo on and uh now she buys them from me and puts them in her um selection boxes that she sells with her her kits. So just so nice that one is lovely and positive pants yeah what what better affirmation can you give a time this is my um Valentine's dial oh I love you oh yeah that they they are they are fantastic and they're only small so one of the have you moved completely from the actual oh caring for children which I'll give up camera and now you that that is your business now yes yes um I don't actually my my husband has two grandchildren so I'm kind of like granny to them but no I don't look after children anymore I've enough trouble with my two 30 year olds and my 36 year olds yeah I think that's enough but it's it's just this is one of the reasons why I wanted to ask Wendy to come on to chat with you Denise and and for you to meet her because it's just amazing what Wendy can do you know for the children and and just what a simple idea and how much it's grown and how much it benefits me in my clinic and I can only imagine how much it would benefit nurseries or anywhere like that really. And you used to be uh you're a retired pediatrician aren't you? Yeah and then with my own children decide the hours of a pediatrician at work around so I I love ER. It would have been very helpful in the emergency room. Exactly exactly sometimes with grown ups too there we go when do you need to go to all the A and E's now and start selling you mood stars. They are in uh as I said they're in the Great Ormond Street Hospital and they're in um Guys and St Thomas's hospital. St Ormond St Ormonds is the children's hospital's hospital in London. I mean it's the biggest children's hospital everybody knows what if they read Peter Pan they know that Peter Cann was big there too. It was great all the profits during the life of the author for Peter Pan went to Ray R3. It kind of like came to a bit of a dead end with hospitals because when COVID hit there weren't allowed to have there weren't allowed to be any sharing toys yeah no and no materials because of cross contamination and all of that sort of lava so um do you think it would work if it was produced in something it can be sterilized? Well you see they can be washed at a high temperature but of course hospitals don't want to bother with no and then you gotta wait for them to dry but I was thinking more of a plastic but like like a like something you use in the bath right something that would that would dry off in its own time whether those would be possible. I no it's it wouldn't be worth my while just for hospitals but I do say to the people that buy them that they are wash they are washable. They love a trip to the washing machine hospital and the dryer well actually they just dry on the radiator. For that very reason I wanted them washable and non-shrinkable so that because you know children mouth them and uh you know get chocolate over them and yogurt and banana and stuff. So I did want them I did want them washable. Yeah mine have been it mine have been in my uh washing machine a few times but in a little bag you know like and buy these special bags to put your underwear in or woolens or something. So yeah yeah uh and it saves like them getting mixed up in you know with other as well somebody should just pull the bang out and put it outside yeah yeah and and I just place them on the radiator at home and and they're dry within not not very long at all. And the if somebody if somebody is listening to this and says oh that's a good idea I actually get a pack of those where can they obtain them? They can obtain them from my website which I saw unless you're it's going to be it's going to be in the show notes yes it will be it will be right at the end um it'll um I'm gonna do a little blurb all about you and I'm gonna put some photographs I've sent some photographs to Denise as well. Yes thank you together if there's anybody in America listening who would like a set if they can just wait until July then my sister's coming over to the UK for my son's wedding and she'd gladly take some sets back to the UK to the States. Well I'm going to Belgium in May and hopefully fingers crossed I'll be back down in London in November. So they're coming with the of course this doesn't matter which language the child speaks it's facial expressions aren't really so yeah and they're coming with me to Belgium because my talk at the Belgium hypnosis conference is all about communication and storytelling so they're coming with me. Oh less I'd like to take the big one but I I'm limited to to my space. Yeah yeah so they're coming with me so I shall be sharing your information there. You'll have to let me know where in Belgium and I will send one to you. Antwerp so can I ask you Wendy what what's the future of the mood stars? Are you just going to keep them as they are and because I know you do special ones don't you for like birthdays and and and Christmas that's right that's friends of my mood stars. So we've got um the the the um I love you star which you've just seen the positive pants star we've got motivation star uh father's day star mother's day star Easter star on the website you can see all the different friends of my mood stars and lots to um promote awareness days like St. Patrick's Day which we've just had yes so if there's um an awareness day I try and make a mood star that will match it and of course they're bespoke as well somebody will say oh can you do this can you do that and I'll and I'll try my best to accommodate they are gorgeous. Denise I'll have to get all of your contact information for the various things so we can make sure people can yeah can find out more absolutely by themselves a happy star. Yeah but thank you Wendy thanks for coming on today it was lovely and you Denise it's been lovely to meet you thank you so much include Delaware next time you're passing through the States I'm so it's a tiny state there's still a lot going on I'm so jealous of you tan you make me look very very pale I have to wait to September for my holidays that you know the spring I'll go on for a shower in a minute and it'll all wash off. Spring is definitely here because where I am at I'm at work today and where I am I've got um it's like a little boulevard a pedestrianised area and all the trees have got little tiny green buds on so you can see they're all ready for flowering and they're absolutely beautiful you know when when they all focuses are up in my front yard. Yeah. But you won't see them soon though will you Denise with the snows no thank you for reminding me we went out over the weekend and all of a sudden there's purple purple patches blue just going down and he said the rain you know he we've we've got quite a big car but he had to slow down and put his wipers on full black because of because of the rain it was it was terrible. It's a good job it was him that was driving and not me because I'd have had to pull over until it was the same I'm just the same. Yeah but he's he did say that it was just beautiful because we do I do I like weather I like watching weather and everything so he did say it's boring and it's always the same yes. Yeah yeah it's it is the same here in the northwest of England it's it's very wet and uh very windy and um yeah I'm I'm fine with the rain I just do like to see some brightness. Yeah it it's the grey that's so impressive. Yeah it was a saying in uh Texas that if you don't like the weather wait ten minutes. That's what they say in England and Scotland yes definitely we've seen four seasons in one day in Scotland so definitely but thank you Wendy thank you so much it was very nice meeting you Wendy thank you thank you Les thank you so much we hope you've enjoyed listening please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis and it's for educational purposes only so remember consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one