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Two Hypnotherapists Talking...
Two hypnotists working with clients around the world through zoom and chatting to each other from their respective homes in Wilmington Delaware and Preston UK - listen in...
Contact Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH office@aahypnosis.com or visit www.healandberadiant.com
Contact Les Roberts ACH https://www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk/further-information
Two Hypnotherapists Talking...
with Garry Coles MSc
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Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH www.healandberadiant.com office@aahypnosis.com
Les Roberts ACH www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk contact@lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk
Garry Coles MSc www.hypno-oncology.com www.releasehypnotherapy.com +44 1252 687260
Two Hypnotherapists Talking with Garry Coles E6 S9
Two Hypnotherapists Talking with Garry Coles E6 S9
Jun 29, 2026, 12:19 PM
Two Hypnotherapists Talking with Garry Coles E6 S9
Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, here in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist (0:21) and specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant (0:28) hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Hello and welcome. Welcome to episode six of season nine.And Denise and I have got a wonderful guest (0:44) today. This is Gary Cole. And Gary Cole is a oncology based hypnotherapist.Was that what (0:52) you say you were, Gary? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm a general hypnotherapist, but I do see people for (0:58) everything.But I specialize in hypno-oncology, if you like, is hypnotic interventions for the (1:05) cancer journey. Yes. Yeah.I've also read about you as well. And in 2016, the UK Hypnosis Convention (1:13) claimed you to be amongst the top 30 hypnotherapists in the world. Yay! Kudos to you.That's fantastic. (1:23) Yeah. That's great.And the other one to show that I'm truly international. One of the oldest (1:30) hypnotherapy conferences, the Mid-America one in Chicago, gave me an award in 2024 as (1:36) Medical Hypnotist of the Year in the US. Excellent.Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. (1:43) Do you see a lot of people from everywhere? Or is it mostly UK? No, I do.It is mostly the UK, (1:51) but I'm doing more even in the UK on Zoom. You know, I was working with somebody I'm based on (1:57) the Hampshire-Surrey border. And I was working with somebody just now in Oxford (2:01) via Zoom.I've got a cancer patient this week that I'm working with in Boston in the US. (2:09) So yeah, so it is getting slightly more common to do internationally. (2:15) Your interest originally was because you had a family member with cancer? (2:19) Um, no, I have had that when my mother sadly passed away with lymphoma and my grandfather (2:27) had esophageal cancer, but he lived till he was 94.So that didn't really. (2:32) But that wasn't really I that wasn't really the reason it was it was sort of more accidental, (2:37) really. Because I qualified as a hypnotherapist back in 2005.And it was only a few weeks after (2:46) I qualified. So the word had seemed to go around and I had a call from the hospital. (2:51) And they said, Oh, we used we used to have a hypnotherapist here in the cancer department, (2:55) and they've gone.It's really useful with cancer patients. Would you like to come and, (2:59) you know, come and excellent. So I must admit, my original idea was I wasn't (3:03) greatly interested in that area, particularly.And I thought, well, I'm newly qualified, (3:09) I need experience. So I thought I'll go in there for a few weeks, because each day I was in there, (3:15) I was servicing four clients, four patients sort of in half a day. So I thought I'd go in there, (3:21) you know, for a few weeks, get my experience skyrocketing, and then I'll disappear.(3:25) And that didn't quite work because, you know, sort of 19 years. (3:31) Do you still work mostly with patients from that hospital? Or is it a referral from other places? (3:39) Now, everybody I see that contacts me sort of directly are private patients from (3:45) the place, because I'm in the fortunate position now that on social, lots of people know that I do (3:51) this area. And people track me down for it.But it's also rather nice on social media. (3:57) If anybody puts anything about does anybody know a hypnotherapist who specialises in cancer? (4:02) There you are. (4:04) Somebody put my name up sort of pretty quickly.So yeah, so I spent 19 or did 19 years in the (4:10) hospital. And I think I did about 3000 cancer patients in that time. So I've developed a lot (4:17) of techniques that worked for them, I could see what would work and what wouldn't know what you (4:21) can work with.And then because I was there, I had the chance to do a master's degree in (4:29) clinical hypnotherapy through the University of West London. And it freaked the university out (4:35) like mad because it was the first cohort in this country to do a master's degree in clinical (4:41) hypnotherapy. And they wanted to do some research.So most people would say, no, I'll do some (4:47) research on weight loss and smoking, stuff like that. And I said, I want to do some stuff with (4:52) cancer patients and panic their ethics committee. So I thought, well, I've been doing the cancer (4:57) work for so long.And I thought it'd be really, really useful to do something medical based in (5:03) the hospital. Yeah. So I actually did a study.And I did a study into pre-surgical hypnosis and (5:10) the effects that had on the recovery quality and breast cancer operations, and was able to (5:15) demonstrate that it did and how and why. And that sort of got me known a little bit more in that (5:21) area. And it wasn't due to my research, I must admit, but the Royal College of Anaesthetists (5:25) now actually recommend pre-surgical hypnosis.They don't call it that. What do they call it? (5:31) I think it's just preparing your mindset for surgery. Yeah.So they do offer recordings (5:40) and things. So it is in the right direction. But I did my research and then sort of word got out.(5:45) So I started getting people emailing me, hitting the therapist saying, oh, you know, you're an (5:49) expert in working with cancer patients. Can you give me some advice? So I did. And then a few (5:54) people said, oh, you ought to do a training course in this.You know, at that stage, I thought nobody's (5:58) going to be interested. And then I did a couple of podcast interviews. I was getting more emails.(6:05) And then it really went that I was invited to do the first UK conference. And they suggested, (6:12) oh, yeah, you ought to put a course together. So eventually I did.So I did put the course together. (6:17) And then I did the first UK conference and I got invited whether I'd like to go and do the (6:21) one in Las Vegas. So I went there and it sort of escalated from there.Really. I saw training (6:27) courses both online and in person and all around the world. I mean, last year, I was teaching (6:33) nurses and hypnotherapists in Iceland.Actually, next week, not this weekend, the following (6:38) weekend, I'm actually going to be teaching medical staff in Warsaw in Poland. Are you doing most of (6:45) that online? Or do you actually travel there? I've done one online. I've done one online to (6:52) this country.I've done two online to this country, but the first one was due when we had COVID. So (6:58) I couldn't see. Yeah, so I took mine.And I've done one online one to Australia because I couldn't get (7:05) enough people going out there. But the other ones are in person. I mean, I did one in Iceland.(7:10) One last year in Iceland was in person. I did a private one a couple of years ago for psychologists (7:15) in Bahrain. And I'll be doing Warsaw next week, the week after next.I'll be doing that in person. (7:22) And then I'm actually going to be doing a workshop next month in Vegas as part of the conference (7:27) there as well. It's a very full schedule.You get to relax at all. Well, yeah, it's nice when I go (7:34) visit places. I do add some extra days for downtime and fun.But yeah, this year, the (7:40) schedule's gone stupid, really. I mean, I've already presented in Dublin, Copenhagen and Antwerp (7:49) in the last three months. I shall be in Vegas next month, obviously Poland next week, Vegas next (7:55) month.Nothing in August, but something will show up. Well, September, September, I'm presenting (8:04) in Detroit and then Los Angeles in October. I'm presenting in Chicago and then Toronto.(8:11) And then I've got the UK one back in November. So that's my schedule for this year. (8:16) I believe also you've published a hypno-oncology book, haven't you? (8:20) I've got a hypno-oncology script book and I'm trying to do an academic book on it as well, (8:26) where I must admit, I hold my hand up guilty of a little bit of procrastination and being too busy.(8:32) I'm trying to do an academic book sort of based on my course work. I've still got about three, (8:38) I've had about three chapters to do for about the last 18 months. (8:44) You've been practicing about 20 years.So have you seen any difference in people's (8:49) attitude to hypnosis? Yeah, it's becoming, I think, (8:53) more and more, I mean, I think the market's getting a little bit saturated by everybody (8:58) thinking, oh, I can do that and, you know, do a two-day course or an online course. I saw one (9:03) yesterday, somebody offering a $7 online course to be a certified hypnotherapist. So that's sort (9:10) of annoying, but I think it's becoming more accepted by people because people now are looking for more (9:16) holistic approaches rather than, you know, medical and pharmaceutical approaches.And it is (9:23) becoming more accepted by the medical fraternity. Al
Welcome to the doctor's talking about media. I want everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating model.
SPEAKER_01We are hypnotherapist talking about the case. Hello and welcome and welcome to Office Third of Season 9. And Denise and I have got a wonderful guest today. This is Gary Cole. And Gary Cole is an oncology-based hypnotherapist. Is that what you say you were, Gary?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm a general hypnotherapist, but uh so I do see people for everything. But uh I specialise in hypnooncology and if you like is uh hypnotic interventions for the cancer journey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I've also read about you as well. And in 2016, the UK Hypnosis Convention claimed you to be amongst the top 30 hypnotherapists hypnotherapists in the world. Yay! Who doesn't you? That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other one to show that I'm truly international, one of the oldest uh hypnotherapy conferences, the Mid-America one in Chicago, gave me an award in 2024 as uh medical hypnotist of the year in the US.
SPEAKER_01Excellent! Fantastic, absolutely fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Or is it mostly UK?
SPEAKER_00No, I do. I mean it is mostly the UK, but I'm doing more even in the UK on Zoom. You know, I was working with somebody, I I'm based on the Hampshire-Surrey border, and I was working with somebody just now in Oxford via Zoom. I've got a cancer patient this week that I'm working with in Boston in the US. So yeah, so it is get getting slightly more common to do internationally.
SPEAKER_02And your interest originally was because you had a family member with cancer?
SPEAKER_00No, I I I have had that. My mother sadly passed away in with lymphoma, and um my grandfather had a soccer gill cancer, but he he lived till he was 94, so that didn't really but that wasn't really I that wasn't really the reason. It was it was sort of more accidental, really, because I I I qualified as a hypnotherapist back in 2005. And it was only a few weeks after I qualified um sort of word had seemed to go around, and I had a call from the hospital, and they said, Oh, we used to we used to have a hypnotherapist here in the cancer department, and and they've they've gone. It's really useful with cancer patients. Would you like to come and you know come and summer? So I must admit, my original idea was that I wasn't greatly interested in in that area particularly. Uh, and I thought, well, um, I I'm newly qualified, I need experience. Uh so I thought, I'll go in there for a few weeks because each day I was in there, I was sort of seeing four clients or four patients sort of in half a day. So I thought, well, I'd go in there you know for a few weeks, get my experience skyrocketing, and then I'll disappear. That didn't quite work because you know, sort of 19 years.
SPEAKER_02Do you still work muscular patients from that hospital, or is it a you go refer all from other places now?
SPEAKER_00Now now everybody I see that contacts me sort of directly are are private patients from from all over the place. Because I I I'm in the fortunate position now that I'm social well, lots of people know that I do this area and um and people track me down for it. But uh it's also rather nice that on social media, if anybody puts anything about does anybody know a hypnotherapist who specializes in cancer as well. But somebody put my name up sort of pretty quickly. So yeah, so I so I spent 19, you know, did 19 years in the hospital, and uh I think I've done I did about 3,000 cancer patients in that time. So I've developed a lot of techniques that worked for them. I could see what would work and what wouldn't, uh know what you can work with. And then because I was there, I had the chance um to do a master's degree in clinical hypnotherapy, uh research masters through the University of West London. And it freaked the university out uh like mad because it was the first cohort in this country to do a master's degree in clinical hypnotherapy, and uh and they wanted uh to do some research. So most people will say, No, I do some research on weight loss and smoking, stuff like that. And I said, I want to do some stuff with cancer patients, and it panic their ethics committee quite a lot. So I thought, well, I've been in the doing the cancer work for so long, that's and I thought uh it'd be really really useful to do something medical-based in the hospital.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so uh I actually did a study, and and um I did a study into pre-surgical hypnosis and effects that had on recovery quality and breast cancer operations, and was able to demonstrate that it did and how and why. Uh and that sort of got me known a little bit more in that area. And it wasn't due to my research, I must admit, but the Royal College of Anethetists now actually recommend pre-surgical hypnosis. They don't call it that. They don't call it that, but what do they call it? I think it's just preparing your mindset for surgery. Yeah, but it sort of covers it. Yeah, so so they they they do offer recordings and things, so it's uh is in the right direction. But I did my research and then sort of word got out, so I started getting people emailing me, hypnotherapists saying, Oh, you know, you're an expert in uh working with cancer patients, can you give me some advice? So I did, and then a few people said, Oh, you ought to do a training course in this, you know, you're actually at that at that stage. I thought nobody's gonna be interested. And then uh I did a couple of podcast interviews, so I was getting more emails, and uh and then it really went that uh I was invited to do the first uh UK conference, and that they suggested, oh yeah, you ought to put a course together. So eventually I did. So I did put the course together, and then I did the first UK conference, and I got invited whether I'd like to go and do the the one in Las Vegas, so I went there, and it sort of escalated from there, really. I saw I didn't do training courses both online and in person, uh, and all around the world. I mean, uh last year I was teaching nurses and hypnotherapists in Iceland. Actually, next next the week, not this weekend, the following weekend, I'm actually going to be teaching medical staff in Warsaw in Poland. Hypnocology.
SPEAKER_02Are you doing most of that online or do you actually found it there?
SPEAKER_00I've done one online, I've done them on one online to this country. No, I've done two online to this country, but the first one was due when we had COVID, so I couldn't see it. So it was like and I'd done one online, one to Australia, because I couldn't get enough people to want going out there. Um but the other ones are in person. I mean, I I did one in Iceland, the one last year in Iceland was in person. I did a private one a couple of years ago for psychologists in Bahrain, and uh I went out there in person, and I'll be doing Warsaw next weekend, the week after next, I'll be doing that in person. And then I'm actually going to be uh doing a workshop next month in Vegas as part of the conference there as well.
SPEAKER_02It's a very full schedule. Yeah, do you get to relax at all?
SPEAKER_00I well, yeah, I it's nice when I go and visit places, I too do take add some extra days for for downtime and fun. But the yeah, this this year the schedule's gone stupid, really. I mean I've already I've already presented in Dublin, in Dublin, Copenhagen, and Antwerp in the in the last three months. I shall be in Vegas next month, obviously Poland next week, Vegas next month. Nothing in August, but uh something will show up. Well, yeah, because well September, September I'm presenting in Detroit and then Los Angeles, and October I'm presenting in Chicago and then Toronto, and then I've got the UK one back in November. So so that that's my schedule for this year.
SPEAKER_01I believe also you've you've published a hypnooncology book, haven't you? A script book.
SPEAKER_00I've got a hypnooncology script book. Yeah. And I'm trying to do an academic book on it as well. Yeah. Where I must admit, I I I'll hold my hand up guilty of a little bit of procrastination and being too busy. I'm trying to do an academic book sort of based on my coursework. I've still got about three, uh I've had about three chapters to do for about the last 18 months.
SPEAKER_02Have you found you've you've been practicing TV about 20 years? So have you seen any difference in people's attitude to hypnosis?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's becoming, I think, more and more. I I mean, I I think the market's getting a little bit saturated by everybody thinking, oh, I can do that and you know, do a two-day course or an online course. I mean, I saw one yesterday, some somebody offering a $7 online course to be a Cersei-by-hypnotherapist. So that that's sort of annoying. But I I think it's becoming more accepted by people because people now are looking for more holistic approaches rather than you know, medical and pharmaceutic pharmaceutical approaches. Yeah. And it is becoming more accepted by the medical fraternity. Although some of those uh that that's both good and bad. I mean, when I was doing my research, I think the best uh result I had, or the thing that really changed it for me, which I thought was great, was I had a lot of ethics issues trying to do it in the first place. I mean, the university ethics threw it out the first time because they were just panicking, but then they accepted it. Then I had to go through NHS ethics, then I had to go through the hospital research and development ethics, and they were they were a nightmare. Decided, oh, you've got to do this course, you've got to do this admin, and you've got to do this risk assessment, all sorts of stuff. And then the final part was they said, Oh, you've got to go and see, you've got to be interviewed by the teaching surgeon. And they said it's her decision whether it happens or not. And they said she says no, it's well, it's her patient, presumably. It was all her patient. She she was the the the um breast cancer surgeon, teaching surgeon. So so they said, if she says yes, it's happening, if she says no, there's no comeback, there's no no sort of bleeding or whatever, it's just not gonna happen. And I saw her and I thought, God, she's an absolute nightmare. She gave me such a hard time. Uh and and looking back on it, I think she was just trying to make sure that it was going to be robust sort of research rather than wasting time. Um anyway, she said, Yeah, okay, we'll do this. And I think it was about eight months into the research, she came up to me one day and she said, Oh, we're starting to see results sort of with the patients you're working with. And she said, and we're getting an idea of which ones it's likely to work better with.
SPEAKER_02That's very helpful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And she said, and she turned around to me, she said, if if you'd like me to change my elective list around to accommodate you, let me know. So I thought if we've now got the teaching surgeon moving their operation schedule around to accommodate. That that is huge. Yeah, that that that's really big.
SPEAKER_02Wasn't it? A no no a surgeon noticed anybody else in the room is quite amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, some of the others were a little difficult, but um, yeah, she was great on that. And some of the doctors, I mean I'm not there at the moment because they they've just taken on another couple of doctors and they're doing building work, so there's no room. But I spent probably about 11 years actually based in a GP surgery and privately. But again, I uh a lot of the patients I saw were recommendations from the the doctors there. Okay, they wouldn't finance it on the NHS, but they'd they would sort of it was maybe I think difficult people they wanted to get rid of or didn't really know what to do with. They said, Oh, have you thought about hypnotherapy? I've got a hypnotherapist upstairs, you know, you can go go go and see them. So I was getting sort of stuff like that. And uh and I've got another GP that that sends me a few, which uh was quite a funny story. It was fairly early on, uh sort of being a hypnotherapist. But I had a lady phone me up and she said, I've got borderline personality disorder. Would you do some work with me? And I thought, well, I'm not sure I shouldn't. That would be difficult. I thought, well, I was a bit of a panic, you know, I'm not sure I could go anywhere near that. And uh one of my mentors at the time was a doctor of psychology, so I contacted him and I said, I've got this lady who wants to come and see me for borderline personality disorder. What should I do? Should I just say no? And he said, No, no, no, I thought it'd be a good learning curve. He said, Uh I'll support you, I'll mentor you, and you know, uh as you're doing it. So uh he said, but obviously we need to get permission from the doctor. So I wrote to the GP and she was very dismissive. She said, Um, yeah, you can do that. She said you're not likely to cause any harm, was the response I got from my That is the first rule. Yeah, yeah. So that was it. And so anyway, I I did I think it was about five sessions with this lady, and she wrote me an amazing letter saying I'd transformed her life from existing to living. Oh, that's the look. She'd been on a holiday, she'd been out for meals, all sorts of things she said that she'd never dreamt that she'd have done. And and she copied the letter to her GP. And the but the GP begrudgingly admitted I'd made more difference in five sessions than anything they'd done in 15 years, and then proceeded to send me a succession of borderline personality disorder patients. So that that that was good. The only sort of downside I'm seeing with it is there is uh uh more and more doctors uh are now learning hypotherapy, doctors and dentists, medical staff, but there is an organization which hopefully they are changing slightly. But there is an organization, and I can't think of what what it's called off the top of my head, but it's it's a you it's a UK sort of, you know, one of these self-governing bodies, but they will only admit people who are doctors, dentists, or psychologists. They will not let any anybody else in that isn't.
SPEAKER_02That is unfortunately, as I'm I'm a former physician, they I can't even get recognized. Yeah, you can have a license in anything medical at all, and any level of medication, but they won't let me join.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but no, this this one they will only admit uh I think vets as well. The the veterinary doctors, uh dentists, and psychologists are the only um people allowed to join. Um and I actually went to a talk that that some of their members put on at the Royal College of Royal College of Medicine, a member of there. And I went up and it it was a day on on hypnotic analgesia and anesthesia, and it was the Royal College of Anethetists who are actually doing a lot of the talks. And it was great because they were doing talks, giving some demonstrations and showing videos. And I thought it's really great that they've now got into this, but their techniques seem to be so dated, and some of the language to me was so dated. And I went up to them sort of uh at lunchtime and I said it's really great that you're you're very much into this now. But uh I said, I'm I'm really curious. I said, um, I said, a lot of the techniques and approaches seem to be rather old-fashioned and rather out of date. I said, uh, who teaches you the techniques? And they said, Oh, Doctor such and such here, he's been teaching us for the last 40 years, you know. And I said, Oh, where did he learn? Oh, well, yeah, he learned from the doctor that was here before him. And I said, Well, I said, Oh, you don't mind me saying, but I said, hypnotherapy's really moved on. And I said, your techniques are a little bit slow, a little bit out of date. I said, uh there's much better ways of doing things. I said, I'd really love to perhaps come in, just give you a talk on you know where things have moved to. Or I said, you know, I could do a talk, or I could even come in and just do a training session, you know, for half a day or a day with with with your members. Uh and they said, Oh no, no, no, no, you you can't possibly come and talk to our members, you're not a doctor. They said, So you no, you you can't possibly come and talk to our organization because you're not a doctor, you know, all this sort of stuff. Yeah. So so that was that. And what's really irritating is that uh they now go around, because I went I was invited to a cancer research forum in the university, and I I went and gave a talk there to people of some sort of around the world. Uh, and they were also there doing a talk on hypnosis in cancer patients. The one thing they go over and over again is they say, Oh, that hypnotherapy is really brilliant, it can be you know useful. It has to be a doctor. And they said, but you shouldn't go and see a lay hypnotherapist. You should only go and see for your own safety, should only go and see somebody who's medically qualified. Oh dear hypnotherapy.
SPEAKER_02If only they could modify that slightly, I would be thrilled if people would say, make sure the person has had sufficient training. Yeah, yeah. On medical school, but on a weekend course and not a yeah, but I mean, even when I said to him, I said, Oh, you know, I can come in and talk to you.
SPEAKER_00And I said, I said, uh, you know, to be fair, I said, you you all you people are doctors, and I said, Yeah, you're doing a hypnotherapy, which is great. I said, but you're general practitioners or you're anaesthetists or whatever. I said, I've got a master's degree in clinical hypnotherapy, so I'm a specialist in that area. So I said, I can go and give you a talk. And they said, Oh, no, no, no, that's not good enough. You're not a doctor, you know, you can't possibly come and talk to us. And and even uh with the master's degree, they still uh uh refer to me as a lay hypnotherapist, you know. So uh but there is some in-roads because I've got a friend who is a doctor of education, she's now at she's joined the organisation, and and I believe she's now on the board for the organisation.
SPEAKER_02Oh so maybe they'll modify it slightly.
SPEAKER_00Uh well there are because uh it's uh it's only on Zoom, but I have been invited to give them a talk later in the year. So you never know. Yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna be talking to talking to them about the hypno oncology, hypnooncology. So so you never know, we might be going in the right direction.
SPEAKER_02And and certainly for the trained person to go and take something in a particular area, it's it's nice to have a weekend. Oh, yeah. Meet up with other hypnotists. Yeah. What what would you like for this chit-chat to be about? It's it's we're not gonna be able to do that. What what is your particular burning issue at the moment in in the area?
SPEAKER_00I don't think I have any burning issues, really. I'm just too busy running around the world trying to teaching and talking, which is we need more, so I don't have to question out so much. Yeah. Oh, I mean I mean it is nice as well because I uh not only you know it's it's a nice lifestyle because you know at the moment I'm away sort of probably ten days a month for sort of nine or nine months of the year. Little vacation. Yeah, so yeah, I always had three or four days in for sort of downtime, which is nice. Uh and also it it's it it's nice in a lot of the way because I I sort of do the circuit, if you like, and I've I mean I'm doing Vegas next month, I think, for the eighth time. You know, I've done the UK one sort of eight or nine times. And because I tend to do the circuit, I know a lot of the other presenters and other hypnotherapists, so it's nice that people that I used to look up to thinking, oh, you know, this famous hypnotherapist that does all this teaching and whatever, they're now my drinking buddies, you know. It's like we go around the world and we go out and socialise and meet up, and and there's quite a nice thing in certain conferences, the international conferences, a lot of the um the delegates tend to go home on the Sunday night, you know, and a lot of the presenters tend to go on Sunday night, but a lot of the international ones are sort of still there. So it's a nice thing at certain ones that we all meet up and go out for dinner on the Sunday night, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. When uh when we were in Antwerp, it was Gary's birthday, wasn't it? When we were in Belgium. So but you were delayed a few days, weren't you? Was it because of the strike or something?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I wasn't gonna go back until the Tuesday anyway, because I always like to have a sort of a day or so over. And and then due to the strike, but I was quite lucky. I mean, British Airways contacted me and said, Oh, there's a strike on your flight's likely to be cancelled because they said we're gonna have to cancel a lot of them. Um I said, but we'll let you move your flight to either a day before or a day after without charge. So I I moved it to the day after. It then got delayed to another four hours because of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But uh but that was fine. And whereas a lot of people with other airlines and things didn't have that option. I mean, and some others that their flights did get cancelled. And when I looked at it, British Everest, had they not allowed me to do it free, I noticed that the the charge for the day after, uh they they put the price up by about £400 one way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there was a there was a few people at the convention, was it at the conference that uh they they had their flights cancelled. It was uh it was a strike in going on in Belgium, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00It was pretty much a national strike.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. But it was a it was a good uh it was a good convention there, wasn't it? It was very good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um some people um that had gone with sort of more budget airlines, they just had their flights cancelled and that was it. It was it was a range you and whatever. Because I I know um John from the Irish. Yes, yes, he ended up having to he ended up getting um the the Euro tunnel flying back to London and flying from London back to Ireland. That was that was the only way you could actually do it without paying about another five or six up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I flew I flew home on the Monday, you see, so uh well I I was fine.
SPEAKER_00Um I had the option to move my flight to the Monday, and I thought, well, no, I want to do a little bit of sights.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's your birthday on the Sunday, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00So I thought I'm gonna stay an extra day or two. Uh and it it it is nice to have some downtime. You know, I normally um Vegas and things, it's nice to have a few days off, although this one in Vegas, again, just sort of a crazy thing. I'm very much into rock music and things, and so there's a band that I wanted to see that are actually playing in Chicago the day after Vegas. So I'm actually flying from Vegas to Chicago on the idea that it's on the way home, sort of.
SPEAKER_02Of course, it's a general direction.
SPEAKER_00And and then another one that's nice downtown. I'm doing uh in September, I'm presenting at the Michigan conference in Detroit. The following week there's a new conference in Los Angeles, and I've not been to Los Angeles for ages, and uh, but they're only doing a two-day conference, and I thought, well, I don't I I did a lot of sightseeing in Detroit last year, so I thought, well, I don't want to, I'm not gonna stay too long in Detroit. I'll go to Los Angeles, and I found the hotel sort of at is more out to the airport. They said, Oh, you can get Ubers in, whatever. And I thought, no, and again, because the music thing, I thought I actually want to go and actually stay in that part. So I so I'm actually gonna have four days off before I go to the conference hotel. And I've actually got a hotel on Sunset Strip, sort of right opposite.
SPEAKER_01I think you mentioned this at the convention, didn't you? In Antwerp, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'm just gonna have some sort of Hanging out at the rock clubs. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. Can I ask you, Gary, the the work, the fantastic work that you do in the area where you you work? I don't mean oncology, I mean in the graph geographical area. What do you think we need to do as a consortium, really? What do you think we need to do in order to get what you do recognised, you know, nationwide?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think really it's sort of education of the public is the biggest thing. Because the biggest problem I find in this area, again, we're uh I don't know what it's like where you are, but we're overloaded with hypnotherapists where I am, because it's not far from London. You can be in London in sort of 50 minutes. There's about three or four training schools within about half an hour of where I am.
SPEAKER_02How many of them do you consider rapture? Are they turning people out and like rapid take a six-week course and there you go?
SPEAKER_00There's there's some good ones that uh they're doing sort of two days a month but for 12 months courses. So there are one or two that that are good, but there's and there's one that's sort of doing like I think a one-week course, but you know, it's a whole week. But there are some very short ones as well. But because of that, we're we're overloaded with hypnotherapies.
SPEAKER_02I mean we're I think the biggest problem with the short, I mean, a week is is a very short period of time. There's quite a lot to impart, but it isn't a huge academic outload for most of us to come from uh serious academic areas. But the amount of time you need to practice, and it it gives the impression to the person, okay, I thought you know, go and launch yourself at the public. And that's the issue.
SPEAKER_00The problem we have with it here is is that because there's so many schools around here, we we we're overloaded with hypnotherapists. I mean, within a 10 mile radius of me, if you really look hard enough, you know, on uh sort of online and in newspapers and leaflets and everything else, there's between within a 10 mile radius of me, there's between 100 and 120 hypnotherapists.
SPEAKER_02Oof that most fake.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's an awful lot, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00And the problem I get, you know, sometimes when people find out you're a hypnotherapist, it w it's um oh, I tried hypnotherapy once, it was rubbish, it didn't work. And you know, well, who did you go and say, oh Joseph, you know, because we see now the mentality here that a lot a lot of people just want the near nearest and cheapest. If they're if they're looking at the cheapest and there seems to be a lot of hobbyists to one of them, well, I mean there's there's there's three new ones started up in the last month near one of I've got a clinic in a place called Odium, and there's three new ones that have started up in the s in the same town. It's not even a sort of a proper town, it's sort of almost a village. But again, you know, one of one of those I've seen her advertising, and it seems to be all all about the that um again she's got a I think like a cabin in a garden, but has sort of set it up with uh lovely lots lots of plush cushions and all sorts of other things. And her her main selling point seemed to be how comfy it was, and whatever, rather than what she could actually do as a hypnotherapist. And there does seem to be a lot of part-timers that you know just want to fit it around in childcare or you know, or a bit on the side, you know, there's there's a lot of that. I mean, I had one here that that's now now gone, thankfully, because um he got investigated by the police for having things on his computer that he shouldn't have done.
SPEAKER_02Oh dear, oh dear.
SPEAKER_00But he he was a great example. He was just down the other end of the road from my clinic, always used to be having a go at me, sort of sort of uh you know, are you looking for a hypnotherapist? You know, why not come and see me at my comfortable home where I have a special room rather than going into one of these gypsy hypnotherapists that uh have a a an array of sparse rented rooms and waffle on about how many degrees they've got and you know, all this sort of thing. And then when I actually looked at him, yeah, he's got he's got all this and he started training people in it as well. And he just bought a training course off of somebody, just licensed a course off of somebody that also did it. Um and I found that he done he his his background, he didn't he did a three-day course with a convicted fraudster called How to Make Money from Hypnotherapy. He started up as a hypnotherapist, but when I sort of was sort of looking at his background and his phone number and things, I found out that that not only was he a hypnotherapist, he was also a taxi driver. He also did part-time carpentry, and he and he also sold balloon decorations for parties, you know, man of mention.
SPEAKER_01Jack of all crazy, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you're hobbyists and so and and I try and educate some of my clients. I go most of them see my qualifications and things like that. And and I I say that uh I said, well, you know, to break it down, I said there's there's between 100 and 120 hypnotherapists in this area. I said, if you look, I said there's voluntary regulation with the CNHC. And I said, and if you look to see how many of those are voluntary regulated, I said you'll probably get down to about 20, 25. And then I'll say, um, something that would be important to me if I was going to see someone, how many of them do it as a full-time living rather than a bit on the side? I said that would get you down to three or four.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then I'll say, uh, and then I'll say, well, if you want to go one stage further, how many can you find with a master's degree? And I said, I think there's about 18 of us in the UK. So, you know.
SPEAKER_01And I do, I do think that a lot of a lot of our customers actually they buy into us, don't they? Because they they we we establish that rapport and and they they want you know us to help them rather than just you know go down the road and and you know, you can pick it up for £25 a session or something like that. There was one particular guy who was quite local to me who did a past-life regression course online and then was offering past-life regression to you know to people. And somebody came to me and said to me, I I had a bit of a funny turn, you know, when I was doing my hypnosis, you know, with with him. So I said, look, like an abreaction, and explained. And and she said, Yeah. So I said, What, you know, what did what did he do? So she said he just brought me back straight away, started right, okay. Then so I explained, you know, the how you know how abreactions can happen and what you need to do, blah, blah, blah. And she went back and she told him. And he said, I don't even know what an ab reaction is. Yeah, it is what and that's what's worrying, because people, like you said, people can call themselves hypnotherapists.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and they and some of them think that they know everything. I mean, I won't name I won't name the therapy, but there's a quite expensive variance of hypnotherapy. Um at all. And and uh and they they think they can work with everything and anything. Uh, and and that's the way to do it, it's the most powerful technique on the planet. And uh and I've seen them popping up everywhere saying, Oh, yes, I'm trained in this, and they, oh, it's brilliant, I've done that and do this, that, and the other. And I've had several of them coming onto my training, and they've been the ones that have needed the most mentoring because they seem to be, you know, their knowledge on hypnotherapy is severely lacking. Well, yet they've been taught that they know everything and this is all they need to do, and the only technique approach that they need. Uh it it's it's pretty worrying.
SPEAKER_01It is it is worrying, isn't it? Especially when you know people are paying to uh to go and see them to get those solutions, to get those results, to make those changes. And they're literally putting their their life in in somebody else's hands who sometimes are not qualified to do, you know, to do that.
SPEAKER_02And of course it's gonna put them put the person who's gone through that experience of talking to somebody if they then have to go on a cancer journey and there's somebody in their backyard. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And and unfortunately, there are some, and in particular in in the US, that you know are claiming they can cure cancer with hypnotherapy. Cure it. There's a couple that are remain nameless, but uh, you know, and I've seen an advert uh for one was saying uh, you know, oh yes, I I can cure cancer with hypnotherapy, and uh and it's oh yeah, you need four sessions a week for a couple of months, and you know, and there's no guarantee, but oh, you know, it's a really good and I think that's it's really, really worrying.
SPEAKER_01It is, it's very worrying, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02But I mean that's I might it's a shame they can't go after them for practicing if if you're saying you're curing cancer, aren't you really calling yourself a doctor? That and that is illegal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, the public, you know, I mean, particularly people going through the cancer journey, they will they will go for anything.
SPEAKER_02Of course they will, yeah. Of course, they're desperate.
SPEAKER_00And also statistics are quite worrying because uh I I some of the research that I've done, uh and and over in America, the American Society of Clinical Oncology did um some research with 4,000 adults, and tw 25% of them had been through the cancer journey. Uh and and it was really worrying that 40% of them agreed that cancer could be cured by oxygen diet and herbs alone. And half of them thought that cancer could be cured by complementary therapies alone. And the worrying thing in that is that if you actually look at alternative therapies instead of mainstream therapy, it actually doubles the mortality rate. And in early stage cancer, that increases by six times. So you're doing the opposite.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but those complementary therapies are nice as a bit of an add-on to make you feel better, to help you to relax, to sleep, you know, extract.
SPEAKER_02Which will help you with the therapy for messages. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And I always make it very clear that I'm not an alternative therapy, I'm a complimentary therapy.
SPEAKER_02It's just I did test that term, alternative.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I also say in my training and even on my webpage, because I've got I've got a separate hypnocology webpage, and one of the big things that I put on there in very big sort of uh obvious things at the very beginning is we do not treat cancer, or I do not treat cancer. My people that I've taught treat cancer, we help you on the cancer journey. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01I've done a little bit of work with one of our local charities uh and helped, you know, a few on their journeys, but more with relaxation, more with sleep, more of them, more with worries and anxiety and also needle phobias, you know. But you you have to be very, very careful, don't you, of what you know, what what you do and how you do it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, there are ways around certain things. I mean, uh I mean I I tend to work with people for the the whole journey. So uh and when I'm teaching, I said, well, I you know, I because quite often I say, Well, what can you help with? And I said, Well, we go the whole journey. So I said, I deal, I generally deal with the psychological fallout of the of the the initial diagnosis. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of fears and worries and anxiety involved then. I said, and then we could then we look at fears and phobias, you know, might have needles. Uh but a big one is actually um head and neck cancers is claustrophobia because they have to have a muscle down. So you'll get a lot of that sort of stuff. And I said, And then then we work with pre- and post-surgical hypnosis. Um, probably the biggest area I work with is the side effects of treatment, things like uh neuropathy and uh you know nausea and all that sort of stuff. So we deal a lot with that.
SPEAKER_02Then do you see their relatives?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, and we work with palliative care and and part of that sort of thing is working with the relatives and carers and uh and stuff like that. There is an experimental area I do work with, but I always tell them it is it experimental and it's being done purely for their psychological well-being. But there is an area I uh something else I teach in my uh in my courses is psychoneuroimmunology, uh, how feelings and emotions affect the immune system.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And there is a good scientific evidence to support that. Uh and you know, and you you get the people in the in America, for example, saying, Oh yeah, you know, we I I can give hypnotherapy and you know that that that we can change the immune system, that will cure the cancer and things like that. I mean, one recently I was seeing again, I'm not gonna say his name, but you know, one of the ideas in breast cancer, we can we can cure breast cancer because we we can do regression to to to why it started in the first place and then talk to the talk to the breasts and and get it sorted and all this sort of thing. Absolute rubbish or whatever.
SPEAKER_02But there are people that believe a lot of people that believe that yes, the immune system has a big part to play, which if you're following that person's theory, but you're also seeing your oncologist having chemo or whatever the other treatments are, yeah, then fine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I I have people coming to me saying, Oh yeah, you know, I believe the mind is very powerful and it can help cure the cancer and whatever, you know. Well, will you work with me on that? And I say, Well, A, you've got to be doing the mainstream treatment, you know, I'm not gonna be alone. And I'll say, Yeah, we'll we'll do work with the immune system, you know, psychoneuroimmunology work. But I say, Well, you know, if so if if something happens with it and and it has brilliant results, fantastic. But I'm doing it purely for your psychological well-being.
SPEAKER_01Yes, of course, yeah. So your book, your hypnooncology script book, what's it called?
SPEAKER_00Hypno oncology.
SPEAKER_01Oh, is it it's uh very imaginative. Exactly what he says. Fantastic, yeah. And it's available through all the usual.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, it's only available on my on my website currently. Oh, okay, then very good.
SPEAKER_02Which is which is right there behind you, hypnooncology.com.
SPEAKER_01And all all Gary's details will be at the end anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, because I I've got on my website is obviously uh I've got that book. Where when I finally get round to finishing the academic one, that's going to be self-published, but that will be available at bookshops and things. And then possibly I will stop printing these myself and do the same with that as well. That's a long way off. So, no, at the moment, uh obviously I've got um training courses. So I do hip on comedy, I obviously I do the live courses like out in Poland. Uh, I've got an online version, I do one on a USB card as well, which has lots and lots of extra stuff, it's got lots of demonstrations and other things on there. And also actually, because of demand one, I've got a very unique way of doing parts therapy uh that intrigued a lot of people. So, and I've started demonstrating it at some of the conferences. So I now actually, although that's included in my training course, I now offer that as a separate standalone one.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Interesting. Yeah, interesting, yeah. Because I've done your course through Sheila Granger, so I did your hypnooncology course a few years ago, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Which is quite authoritarian sort of ego study parts highly. Yeah. I use that with for a lot of stuff with a lot of people. That's sort of one news, really.
SPEAKER_01Now, apart from jet setting all over the place, going to America, watching your rock bands and things like that, I do know that you're speaking at the UK HC, aren't you, in in November? Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but yes, I I need to design my talk for that one.
SPEAKER_01I was just gonna ask you what you what you're talking about. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, no, I know what I'm talking about. I just haven't got a talk done yet. Because what one of the things that that I find because typically, I mean, obviously I was known for hypnocology, so that that would that was my first talk. And then I started being asked to go back. And so I thought I'd need another talk. So I did psychoneurgy as as a second talk. And then I thought, oh, I'll do academic research in hypnosis. That was my third talk. So I thought I'll just rotate those three. And then when I started sort of going further and further, sort of into the world and whatever, uh, a couple of things I've noticed. One is a lot of conferences don't want you to do the same topic. Um more than you know, once you might get away with it sort of every five years or something, but that's it. And particularly in America, they don't want you to be doing the topics you're doing at another conference because why would people come and see you here when they can see you at a different conference?
SPEAKER_01I think that applies to the UK as well. I I don't think um if you're because I think there's a tick box to say that uh are you uh delivering this talk another in another place.
SPEAKER_00A lot of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't blame them really, yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, so so that so so I had my three and I thought, well, I I need to make sure I'm doing that differently, at different ones at different places. Then then um one of the things that I did find, which is absolutely crazy, but like but uh I find that a lot of the conferences, if you actually go and look at the different topics that are that are on, I found that if if you find if you find there's an academic subject on it gets quite a small turnout. If it bizarrely, if you get sales and marketing talks seem to have a small turnout, but demonstrations of basic techniques are absolutely packed out. So I thought, okay, perhaps I ought to do that. And to do and it showed how crazy it was. I mean, for example, if I do a hypnooncology talk at a conference, I might sort of sell one training course or something like that. The UK one was it like yeah, last year. I did my part a demonstration of my parts therapy. My room was absolutely packed out, and I think I sold about four training courses. And I thought, and I didn't even talk about camps or anything else, I just demonstrated a technique. And they say, Well, yeah, you know, people like to see demonstrations, like to see techniques, and once they've seen you work, that'll give them confidence in your product. So uh and I and and the other reason on that is particularly in America, but because it's becoming more unionized in a lot of the conferences, a lot of them won't let you use slides anymore. Oh which it which and obviously m all my three talks are quite academic, so really they need slides. So I thought, well, I need stuff that doesn't have slides in it as well, and more talks. So I thought, all right, okay, I'll do my one-on-one parts therapy, so that that was number four. Then I thought, well, I still need more, so I've got a humorous one that I do called Thinking Outside the Box, what happens if the plant throws you a curve? Because having done it for 20 years, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of thing, and what can I do? Uh and also some of the other bits of my background that are about belief systems in there. And I I actually did a a few I spent a few days with voodoo tribes in Africa years ago watching them doing trance work and m talking to the witch doctors and all this sort of stuff. So I weave all that in, and it's quite a humorous sort of thing about difficult cases I had, but also some really funny ones and and the ways that I got round them. So and that one I doesn't need slides either. So so that that was so then I got those five together. So I've now got five talks like that.
SPEAKER_01Wow, yeah, we just rotate them now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but then the UK one came to me and I thought I'd I'll go in, you know, this year. And I thought, well, I've I they've had them all, you know, and they're stopping them. I think I need a new one. So I thought, oh, demonstrations, that's what people like. What can I do? And uh so I just wrote something out quick and I said, uh I said, Oh, I'm gonna do a talk called What a Pain demonstration of three different pain control techniques. And I said, Oh yeah, we're gonna do that.
SPEAKER_03Excellent.
SPEAKER_00Uh and so I haven't got a talk to go with it. I've just I've just got a title and so I'm gonna demonstrate three three techniques. So yeah, I'm just gonna just have to decide which which three techniques I'm gonna demonstrate now. I'm gonna fill 50 minutes with them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've I've got to I've got to do my video yet, me, you know, my 60-second video ready for uh for London.
SPEAKER_00So um I I'm pretty sure I did that ages ago. Yeah, no, I've not gotten it. I try and get everything done very quickly.
SPEAKER_02The trouble is if you've been at those conferences more than once, you'll start remembering last year's on Europe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and again, I tend to do what once I get accepted for something, I try and do all my admin like that as fast as I can because otherwise I just forget while I haven't done stuff, but I try and keep on top of it as much as I can.
SPEAKER_01Oh fantastic. It's been lovely to talk to you. Can I just ask you one more question? What's what's the future? What's the future for you and hypnooncology? Where do you think you're going next? Apart from jet setting everywhere, where do you think you're going?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I think really obviously uh longer term retiring, possibly. So no, it's sort of I think I want I want to finish the academic book, and then I think and and I think AI can help on some other things because one of the things I want to do is is I I might do another couple of training courses that are perhaps not oncology, because I did one in Vegas a few years ago, just called uh because my main business is released for therapy. Uh and and of course I do my version of um parts therapy, which is different, and my version of how I work with weight control and smoking things again are quite unique, they're different to other people. So I actually did a one-day course on how I work. So I might resurrect that as a good thing. Yeah, and might do set some things perhaps on, you know, again pain control. So so some other mini courses. But then what I'd like to do longer term is once I've finished my academic book, I'd like to do a cheap self-help book for people going through the cancer journey themselves. But then probably based on that, I'd then like to have some products available to help them, you know, for example for the script book, so audios of all my for example. But I mean things like AI might uh can help with that a lot because uh again, I can you know feed my voice into AI and then just put the whole script book in it and uh you know that'll be important for me. So so those are those are sort of the longer term things to really to have more sort of passive incomes inside of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think I think we all want to do that, yeah. Yeah, I do. Yes, but we also want to see clients too.
SPEAKER_02I mean, of course, enjoy young people and being able to help them.
SPEAKER_01And uh, I I apologize if you can hear the dog barking in the background. My my daughter's taking her other dog to the bed. So Peppa's come here to to see us, and I think she's just telling everybody she's here, you see. So and our dog's just looking at her like that, you know, like as if to say, What are you barking for? You know, so we might start again in a minute. But thank you, Gary. Thank you so so much. It was lovely to see you in Belgium, and I look forward to seeing you in London.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a long way off. Yeah, I got loads and loads of things.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And of course, people can always email him to you.
SPEAKER_01Of course, yeah, of course. Thank you, Gary.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much for emailing me again. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into 30 top notebook. And it's the floodplace notebooks design. So remember, to stop with your own health note if you think of something you found that may apply to you or a loved one.