A Holiday Spectacular with Julie Sherman Wolfe

Rich and Rene join forces with Amy and Garry from Pour the Wine, It's Romcom Time (so grab a glass of vino) to celebrate Hallmark's landmark 2022 film, A Holiday Spectacular.

Then we hit the Hallmark lottery.

Writer Julie Sherman Wolfe joins us for an incredible behind-the-scenes look at one of Hallmark's most ambitious projects ever: a period piece set in 1958 and centered around the legendary Radio City Rockettes.

Think you know this movie? Think again.

In this episode:

• How a conversation between Rich and director John Putch led to Julie joining the podcast.

• Julie's journey from stand-up comedy to sitcom writing, Disney Channel projects, and a five-year road to her first Hallmark movie, Hello, It's Me.

• How a family connection to the Rockettes sparked the original meeting that eventually became A Holiday Spectacular.

• The writing process behind one of Hallmark's most ambitious productions—and how it differed from her other films.

• What it was like attending the film's premiere inside Radio City Music Hall—including the celebrity who left her star-struck and the musical performance she'll never forget.

• The late-night conversation at the premier with two Hallmark actresses that ultimately inspired a couple of 2025 Hallmark films (think… Spain).

• The movie's original title (and no, it wasn't A Holiday Spectacular).

• Why 1958 was the perfect setting for the story and how the Rockettes' sisterhood reminded Julie of her own friendships with two fellow Hallmark writers.

• How Hallmark keeps pairing her scripts with incredible Broadway talent, including Ginna Claire Mason and Derek Klena leading the way in this film.

• The Hallmark destinations she still hopes to write about someday.

And of course, Julie joins us for rapid-fire questions:

Eggnog: yay or nay?
 Classic or modern Christmas music?
 Real or artificial tree?
 Ugly Christmas sweaters?

(Spoiler: Julie has quite the collection.)

Bottom line: fire up Hallmark+, watch (or rewatch) the extended cut with 18 additional minutes of Hallmark magic, then settle in for 75 minutes of stories, insights, and behind-the-scenes details that will make you appreciate this movie more than ever.

For the love of Hallmark!

Follow us on Instagram: www.instagram.com/foreverhallmarkchristmas

Email: ForeverHallmarkChristmas@gmail.com

Follow Amy and Garry: www.instagram.com/pourthewineitsromcomtime

Follow Julie: www.instagram.com/julie_sherman_wolfe

*** Not affiliated with Hallmark Media. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Hey everybody, welcome to the Forever Hallmark Christmas Podcast. Rich here, and we have a very special episode today. We're going to be joining up with our friends Gary and Amy from the Hallmark podcast. Pour the Wine, it's rom-com time. And the four of us are going to be talking about the 2022 movie A Holiday Spectacular. And we have a very special guest as the writer of the movie, Julie Sherman Wolf, is going to be joining the show. And if you're a Hallmark fan, you know exactly who Julie Sherman Wolf is. We're going to do a deep dive into this movie with Julie, hearing all about how she got involved with the project from the get-go, writing the script. She was actually there when the movie filmed, and you're going to hear all about it. I guarantee you, if you thought you knew a lot about this movie, you're going to learn so much more today. So sit back, relax, and enjoy. We've got the Forever Hallmark Christmas podcast. We've got Pour the Wine, it's rom com time, and we've got Julie Sherman Wolfe talking about the 2022 Hallmark movie, a holiday spectacular.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Welcome to Poor the Wine, it's rom com time, where we'll sip some wine and review all things rom com on the Hallmark Channel. I'm Amy.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

And I'm Gary.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

And we have some very special guests joining us today. We originally reached out to Rich and Renee, the co-hosts of the Forever Hallmark Christmas podcast, about collaborating on a review of a Christmas movie, and we landed on a holiday spectacular to review. Now, Rich and Renee have a really cool segment on their podcast where they share fun, behind the scenes facts, sometimes even from the creatives behind the scenes. When they started reaching out to a few people connected to a holiday spectacular, one thing led to another. So today we're beyond thrilled to not only be joined by the Forever Hallmark Christmas podcast Rich and Renee, but also by the writer of a holiday spectacular, Julie Sherman Wolf. So welcome everyone. We're so happy you're here. Thanks for having me. This is fun. And with that, I will hand it over to Rich to formally introduce Julie.

SPEAKER_05 2:31

If you're a Hallmark fan, you probably don't need much introduction. But uh so I originally reached out to John Putch, who had directed the film, and he was so forthcoming with information. He just wanted to tell me everything and anything about the production itself, how it all came together, uh, the filming and radio city music hall sent me a big old list. Anything more you need to know, or just let me know. He was so happy talking about. Then he hit me, Rich. You need to contact Julie and talk to Julie. I said, Ooh, I don't know if I'm quite ready for that. Which is kind of funny because we we'd corresponded with Ron Oliver and Marcomato and uh and Janet King, other Hallmark writers. And I go, But this is Julie Sherman Wolf who's written literally some of my favorite Hallmark Christmas movies. And then I go, I don't know, I don't know about this, John. He goes, I insist you I want you to name drop me in the very first sentence. And uh Julie got back to me. Yeah, he's great. And then Julie got back to me the next day and said, Hey, tell me all about it. I'd love to join you guys. And and here she is. So it was very nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Well, Rich Rich kept sending us updates. He's like, You're never gonna believe this. Never gonna believe what John said. You're never gonna believe Julie's on board, and we were so excited and everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

And then and then we had to clear, we had to make sure like Hallmark is fine, like spilling, spilling the tea. Not too much tea, really, but just you know, we like to make sure everybody's happy. Yeah, yeah. The people who hire me for things.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

We want you to keep working there, Julie. It's fine, it's fine. All right. So, Julie, let's get into your relationship with Hallmark. How did that get started? And what was it about that style of storytelling that really clicked for you as a writer?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So well, I started in sitcoms. So I was um I was doing stand-up. This is I'm gonna tell the longest story as shortly as as short as I can. No, you're good. I was in San Diego, I was uh I graduated from UCSD, a school I could never get into now, ever. The way it's so it's so huge now. I went there, I was gonna, I was gonna do, I was a writer, a writer, just a normal writer. And then when you don't live in LA or if you don't know anyone in the industry, you don't think about being a screenwriter. It does not even cross your mind because there's no internet, there's no little, I mean, there was internet, but barely like it there just wasn't a way to sort of become part of that world if you didn't already know it existed. And it just never occurred to me. So I was doing advertising, copywriting, um, just living in San Diego, hanging out, doing that. Um, one day I got laid off, I got downsized from the ad agency, and then I also got dumped up by my boyfriend of three years the same day. I had stand-up, I had a stand-up slot that night at like 11:30, you know, big headline spot, 11 30 p.m. Um so I went, I'm like, I don't do I really want to do this. I don't feel very funny. I'm like, you know what? I'm going, I'm just gonna do it. I went, I met Rich Scheidner, who used to be a big, big stand-up, and he was a writer on Roseanne, and we were talking, he's like, Well, let me get this straight. This is what he says, he's like, Well, you're funny and you're a chick. So why aren't you in LA writing sitcoms? You would get hired in a second, and then you could probably do that. And it was just that moment of like, oh my god, that's what I totally should be doing. I'd never it literally did not occur to me until that moment. And I six months I saved some money, waited table, six months later, moved to LA, lived in the hood. Um my neighbors, my neighbors were ladies of the night and their pimps and interesting lives, right? Could have gone that way with my career, to be honest. So, you know, I like I had it right there, right there to be taking. Um, I had options, and then um, so I did sitcoms for uh a long time and then um and I did a little animation and I started kind of doing Disney Channel, sort of young adult sitcoms and stuff like that. But comedy was always my thing, but I always really, really loved the romantic comedy genre. I worked at a movie theater of the same summer that when Harry Met Sally came out. Oh my god. And just loved that medium, but again, never thought about writing that way. Um, when we had the very first writer's strike, I think it was 2007 now, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Oh seven, oh eight somewhere. Seven, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Um, that's when I started kind of transitioning and I I had a minute to work on something, and I had done a couple of TV movies. I did a Disney Channel one that was not a romantic comedy, but it was a TV movie. And I did, and then I did one for Lifetime that was an outlandish plot of a woman who marries herself called I Me Wed. And um, that was my first rom-com sale, but I just had that time to write to write that long form comedy, rom romantic comedy, and I just loved it. And I and I really felt like it was easier for me because I just love it so much. And I had all my favorite movies were returned, you know, were rom-coms, really. So after kind of getting my foot in the door with the Lifetime movie and um the Disney Channel movie, which won an award, um, it still took me a good five years to get into Hallmark. Wow. And I tried a bunch of I tried a bunch of times and a bunch of pitches and it wasn't working. And I finally got one in. It was Hello It's Me, um, I guess 2013-ish, somewhere like that. And um that one, you know, thankfully did well and they and people really liked it, and that just sort of kept me going there. And I was, you know, happy to do nothing but that. Yeah, basically. Um and and I just I I still like comedy, but I feel like I get to do that within this, within what I'm writing, you know, and I really try to make I try to make it entertaining and it doesn't because you know, drama is kind of easier. Writing just, you know, I can make you cry so much easier than than laugh. It's just you know, so but I I just I just love it so much and I'm happy that I can I can't believe I'm still getting to do it this many years later. I'm just very grateful for that, and then I got in there when I did, right when it was getting to be the zeitgeist, the cultural zeitgeist that it has become. I got in right when that was starting to happen. So wow. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

That's just that's incredible. I mean, when do you think of do you ever um have any contact with that ex-boyfriend and say, look at me now? I dropped the mic.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I actually yo, how you doing? I was in Vegas um and I saw him bartending at like a bar at a hotel in Vegas, and and I was there for something fabulous. I don't remember what it was, but it was very, you know, it was very much that. And that, you know what I actually sort of just felt like, okay, you know, it's fine. Because like I'm married now to the right person, you know. So it's right, right. It doesn't, it didn't, I was already with him when I saw him, so I didn't feel like you know, I didn't feel like being petty about it, but right, right. It's just interesting inwardly. I would be like the breakup is the that that that person, you know, how am I gonna do any better? Am I gonna find anybody else? And that that goes into what I write all the time, but like you always think at that moment, like, well, that was it, it's over, I'm never gonna change.

SPEAKER_06 9:27

How is this not a already a Hallmark movie? This that's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

This premise sounds great. That's right. Yeah. So I mean, and then of course you look back and be like, oh my god, what was I thinking? I want everyone in the world to basically have a moment of finding the right person and looking back and thinking, what was I thinking? You know, with without making the ex-boyfriend, you know, we can't make him too awful because then it reflects upon the care the main character. They we're always careful about that. The ex-boyfriend cannot be the worst person in the world, or else why would or else why would she be with him and why would we care for her if she has taste? You know, right. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_05 10:10

So when you started writing these these rom coms, you mentioned when Harry met Sally and all these old rom coms from the 80s and 90s you used to loved. Did you kind of find inspiration from the Nora Efrons and Nancy Myers of the world? Or do you just create or did you just do or do you just blaze your own style and said, No, I'm gonna kind of do my thing?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

And it's like I I the the just the the genre is was was them, right? Right when I was you know the peak a the peak person for the as that audience, you know, with all the Nora Efron stuff and her and Sally, but I also love pillow talk and all kind of the old time Philadelphia story and all the stuff that came up beforehand. Because the thing about Hallmark is you know, you can't write you can't write a sex scene, you can't write too much. Uh it's it's rated G. So you're almost depending on the the banter and the the word play of the old style movies uh more than you would on Oh and Harry Met Sally because we had you know they all had they all had a little more freedom as far as what they could say and do. Right. But it's it's actually a challenge and it's fun to you to really show romance and people falling in love without getting it past the rated G level. And that's what they used to do. So I find those really informative to always keep watching every so often and just remember that that's all it's all about that banter, that His Girl Friday, that Philadelphia story, all that stuff. Um Pillow Talk is my kind of well, Pillow Talk and then um Singing in the Rain, you can you can kind of call a rom-com, but not really, but it's sort of, but that's one of my favorite movies. Um so yeah, that's that's but I had my style is very I mean, you definitely I definitely have a style for Hallmark. It's just kind of uh fast and a little snarky, probably, if you asked anybody.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

Um well, the majority of my favorite movies were written by you, so is that right?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

When we looked at your list, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

I mean, yeah, we have a debate with uh Rich and Renee about Tyler Hines' best performance, and we actually think it was in Always a Moray, which we just adored.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

We just it's an unexpected Christmas with Julian Law and Boy.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

But that's okay, that's okay. It's just good banter.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

I think that uh Paul had a concussion for a good portion of that shoot. So you can re-watch Always a Moray and try and find the fun scenes where not Paul, I mean uh sorry, Tyler. Tyler had a concussion. Tyler, oh really? He didn't. At some point during that shoot, yes, I found out many. Unexpected fun facts.

unknown 12:38

Yes, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

There you go. That was like I I haven't watched it since I knew found that out, but I I bet you could watch it and try and say, like, oh yeah, you can try to see. Yeah. He's a lovely, lovely person. I uh really loved working with him.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah, he seems so great. And uh, what movie number was that for him? Was he maybe Oh man, it was early, pretty was it fairly early for him? I was more I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 13:07

2017 was his was his Christmas Eve, and that was his first one he'd ever wrote. His first one. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

So I know the help lend. All right, so let's get into a holiday spectacular. It originally aired on the Hallmark channel on November 27th, 2022, and stars Gina Claire Mason and Derek Clenna. And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that the iconic Anne Margaret is also in it. You can find the extended cut right now streaming on Hallmark Plus.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

Yep, and it was directed by John Butch and written by our lovely guest, Julie Sharman.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Set in 1958. It follows Maggie, who sneaks up to New York City to make her secret dream come true, dancing live on stage in the Christmas spectacular at Radio City Music Hall, putting her high society wedding plans on hold. And now we will turn it over to Rich for some fun facts about the movie.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

Yeah, so uh a lot of these came from uh John Putch. Some came from I saw some interviews that Jenna Claire Mason did uh uh after the filming. So Julie, you can fact-check me on any of these you want to, or kind of maybe chime in with your own thoughts. But I know the filming took place in January and February of 2022, right after I believe the Rockets 2021 season ended, because a lot of the Rockets uh were still around and uh took uh part in the movie. Um I know it was filmed inside Radio City music hall. I think John said you guys had about three days of filming at Radio City.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Unbelievable. It was wow, it was surreal to be standing there and looking out.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

And yeah, I think that's one of the reasons the movie feels so authentic and you had those like 1950 Chevies right in front of Radio City.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, it looks amazing. Those are my favorite pictures of the ones of standing outside with all those cars with the in the with the name of the well, I'll I'll get into that in a second.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

But I know it, I believe you were there, Julie. There was a movie premiere that 200 Roquettes showed up for uh that Hallmark put on. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

That was a crazy night because it was the first movie premiere at Radio City in 40 years, I think. And um, I I'm one of these weird people who I don't live in the moment. I have a lot of trouble remembering things after they happen, so I'm having a great time, and then I it's I think it's an ADHD thing, if I from what I would tell. But I just I do remember pulling up and just like walking up and seeing so it was the name of the it was uh the holiday spectacular on the marquee and just being I I don't even know. I was just overwhelmed, it was just overwhelming, and then then the Roquettes all did their thing, and then Kristen Shenowith came out. Oh my gosh, did a performance for the that maybe thousand people who were there, and then I'm like, and I said to my husband, if she because Jenna Claire was um on was Glinda on Broadway in the more recent, like right before this movie, and obviously Kristen Shenowith, you know, originated the role. We had, I mean, we had so much we can talk about the Broadway insanity of our cast in a second because like Derek and and Jenna Claire and everybody, but um she I I said to my husband, if she and and uh Kristen Chenowith sing for good, I'm going to lose it. I'm going to lose it. And they did. And I was just bawling. I mean, it was just beautiful because Jenna Claire ended up singing um Alphabet's part.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

But she knows it. I mean, it's not like she didn't know the the harmonies and all that stuff, but it was just like that's the thing where I have to watch it on my video that I have of it because I can't even remember the moment because I was just like, you know, you know, ugly crying, just standing there.

SPEAKER_05 16:50

I was just I was just gonna ask, is there a video of it? And if so, we need to see it. So there is, there is.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

I'm not sure why I'm allowed to even share it because it's like it's totally like private, you know, thing. And it was just crazy. I could not, I couldn't believe that that happened. It was it was an amazing night. And then that night after the after party, I was hanging out with um uh Ashley Williams, and we and then she's like it was like two in the morning, and she's like, Oh, I have a kind of an idea for a movie, and I'm and we started talking about it. I'm like, this is great. Then we ended up bringing Allie Sweeney in, and like and then selling that idea for that was born that night, and that became the two Barcelona movies.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Oh my gosh, how cool! What a great night that turned out to be. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 17:35

Another two movies I loved.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, did you? Oh, thank you. Thank you, thank you. I love that. I did I did get to go, I did fly out for that for a couple days with you know, for I had no reason to be there. They were I you know the script was written, but it was a good excuse to go to they were they were doing a podcast during that, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:52

During that shoot. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, don't remember anything except my picture. I'm sorry, I'm glad I'm glad Renee is nodding, like, yes, I understand. I do understand. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Look, I'm right there with you.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

So we met we mentioned Anna Margaret and we also had Eve Plum from uh Jam Margaret Brady Bunch. I mean, are you are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 18:17

It's I know that picture for me, one of my favorite pictures is me and Jan Brady. And just it was just like, yeah, the whole thing, and now now Derek is a Savannah banana, and he's really he is killing it. He is doing he's basically singing Broadway numbers every single night and then pitching. It's crazy. He was he pitched Division I, UCLA. He was a pitcher. Oh and I brought him in, and this it's like I I I didn't want to text, I don't want to bother him because I'm sure everyone's asking for tickets because you can't even get tickets to this. But um, I was like, I this is so perfect. This is the most perfect thing I've ever seen. And he you can see him on on YouTube, but he just he's just killing all these songs and doing all these amazing performances every single time he goes out there. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

He literally walks out, he's he's singing a song, he's got all of his other players as backup dancers behind him. Next thing you know, they throw him a mitt, throw him a ball, and he's pitching the first inning of a baseball game. It's crazy. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, I mean, we have to go to one. We haven't been to it, it's such a great concept.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, I am dying to it's like the Holland Go Trotters in basketball in baseball.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I'm dying to go. I just you know, I'm not gonna like I know Derek and I you know talked to him a few times, but I wouldn't that's not we're not close enough for me to I don't think I just list people to give tickets to. I don't think I want to know.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Never know you never know till you ask, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:40

So John Putch reminded me of something when I mentioned Eve Plum. So John Putch was a child actor of the 70s and 80s, as was Eve Plum. So they used to do on go to auditions together and practice reading together back then. So they go way back, you know, 40 plus years.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Uh John, I'm telling, like, I wish uh I wish he was on here. He is so great. He turned, I mean, he made it look like a 40-50 million dollar production. I thought he it just looked so good, it was just so well done. I'm so glad the extended release is still out because a lot he a lot of the really beautiful stuff that he did got cut for time. Oh so um now that's all back out there, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, it's a visually stunning movie. I mean, yeah, it's amazing. Start to finish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:22

Hallmark Plus, I couldn't even find the regular version. All I could find was the extended. So I didn't realize I was watching an extended release because I just, you know, I just click on until afterwards, like, oh, this is the extended. It's like, well, so you're never gonna want to watch the regular one. That's why I have all these beautiful shots, and I'm sure it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

And I gotta thank my cousin Jonathan because if it wasn't for my cousin who was a dancer, uh, we then none of this movie would have happened at all because he was the one that was really close with the head of Madison Square Garden Entertainment. And he is the one that got me that first meeting of just to connect me and the Roquettes in general. And then I said, Hey, um Hallmark, hi. Uh do you guys want to meet with the Rockettes? Because I have this meeting with the Roquettes that you want to go.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

That's funny because that was gonna be my question is when when the project first started, how much of the concept was already there?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And it was anything it was a meeting of we went into, we went to I I literally I'm I'm in Connecticut. I took the trains right right to Penn Station, and their offices are right there by the you know, by the garden. And I just said we didn't really have the concept, we just had the meeting of just saying we want to do something, we we think we want it to be a period piece. Right. Um and then just sort of really loosely talked about sort of some of the parameters that we would think about. And then I just kind of came up with a couple of different takes on what that might look like. Um and uh it's a little a little homage to Philadelphia story. Um and just just trying to find a way that. You know, we was back in time, but also kind of had a modern sensibility. So that's that's what we were trying to kind of hit. It was, but it kind of no, um everyone was so into it, and Samantha DePippo was the executive, and we worked really closely together on that and and just trying to really make sure it was the best story that it could be before we even started writing this tell the teleplay, but then had to go through approvals from a lot of different people just to get to the actual writing of the script because there's a lot of you know, a lot of people needed to approve and be involved, and it's much more than a normal movie, kind of like the way it was with the Chiefs movie. Kind of kind of the same same thing, like so many more, so many more people involved.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Wow, that's what that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

So another fun fact here, I I I heard that I heard an interview with Jenna Claire. So Maggie's parents in the movie, actors Byron Jennings and Carolyn McCormick, they're a real life couple, they're married in real life. Oh wow, and I didn't know that until she mentioned that.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Uh I didn't either. That's a great that's so sweet. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

And I heard an interesting interview with the uh Keith Nielsen who did the costumes. Uh he was doing a podcast and he estimated that at first he said, I think we did about a thousand costumes, and he goes, you know what? It might have been closer to two thousand. Uh because you when you think about the orchestra, everybody sitting out in the audience, uh, the department store, the diner scenes. He says they were doing like 75 fittings a day. Wow. Uh so it was just a ton of costumes. And I'm sure to be able to do a period piece like this is probably just a dream for uh for a costume guy like that, just to be doing something so different because when he'd been working with Hallmark, so much of a set in the present day, but to go back and do an entire movie that was almost what 98% of from 1958.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

So and the gown that he made that he had for her at the end, it was just it was all just beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Oh gosh, the red hat, the red coat, the red gloves, the red furs. I mean, I loved all the cause.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Yeah, it was great. So, so good.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

All right, so some of the information John Putch gave me uh specifically, I said he gave me a whole bunch and he just wanted to give me more, but I said, Okay, John, I think I got enough here. But he talked about the the scene where where Jenna Claire and the other girls, Maggie, walk into Radio City for the first time in the back, and it does that shot of then all the way looking back all the way to the stage. And they let him fly a drone inside Radio City music hall. He said he was so excited to do that. I think we all were talking before he came on Julie.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

That one visual is just so impressive of Radio Cables.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

Wow, I was there for that.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I was there for that shot. It was just yeah, it was gorgeous. And it turned out better than even in I would ever picture it in my head. And that's the thing. Like as a writer, you know, you can put stuff in a sage direction and you can have it, you can picture it in your head. And it some you know, it doesn't always go down the way you picture it in your head, but sometimes you get really lucky and it's better than you pictured it in your head. And and for when it's John, it's always better than you picture. That's just that's it, it just was beautiful. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

It really was. It really was.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

And you talked a lot about working with Radio City Music hall, how good they were to work with, but Radio City Music Hall had their own crew, and Hallmark had their own crew, and the two had to work together, just as there were a few little growing pays at first, but they got all together, and in the end, uh it was pretty seamless, and they were able to work together for those three days and and make it all work out. I was just hanging out, so I didn't hear about that part.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

I was just like, how am I gonna get my picture with the rocket? Let's make sure I get my picture with the rockets. And I didn't even get the one, I did not get a picture of me and all the rockets in a line because uh when it was my turn for the picture, it was time to start shooting again. So you know I actually have that photo. I have me and like a few of them in a selfie. Um, you know, I had a picture with Ann Margaret, which is great, which she signed. I I sent to her assistant who signed it and sent it back to me. So I have that and I love that. And um, like you know, just it was fun to just kind of hang out and get to know some of the the actors and some of and that's kind of what I love. I love going to set just to talk to people and um without hopefully not bothering anybody. Um, I did get to do this, it doesn't happen all the time. I actually did have to write a little bit. Um, we were running along on something, I can't remember what it was, but I definitely had to kind of condense a scene in in the Radio City shoot uh where where I actually felt useful and I am like, okay, see, it was good that I came. Because you could re-rewrite it.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

I want to know if you stood on the stage and at least tried to do one of those kicks. I think that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I stood on the stage. I actually did stand there and I did look out of the thing. And so I did get to stand there, but I thought I thought in my mind, I thought if I do a kick, it's too cliche, and that's what everybody does. So I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Oh, I didn't do it, I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

And also, um I probably would have broken or twisted something at that point.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

I'm assuming this one is true, but Julie can confirm the original working title was Spectacular Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

That's true. And I still can't remember what the name of the movie is. If you if you put a gun to my head and said, What's the name of the movie? I would say Spectacular Christmas. I'd have to look it up to see if I was right.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah. So does it run with that first name until it almost air? What at what point did they change?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

When did they change it? Yeah, I think they changed it um sometime at some point after they shot it. I I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Um like the even like the bar, you know, the movies always change them. Sometimes they'll get one through all the way, which is great. Um, but Barcel, like the Barcelona movies were those were changed, and uh, I'm just trying to think of the more recent ones. The Chiefs one was a secret name the whole time, so it never even had a title until they decided to call it that. Um, and now I can't remember any any other movie I've ever written.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

So I I've said before that once they're done, they're done.

SPEAKER_06 27:58

They're gone.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

They're gone.

SPEAKER_06 28:00

I I get your brain.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, I get it. Yeah, unless we made room for the new thing.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

That's right. You move on.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

So I've said I've said that Jenna Claire's become my favorite hallmark Mark actress. I think she kills it in every movie she's in. But John reminded me, this was the first time she'd ever done like a television movie. She'd only ever been on stage before. Um, and that she kind of had to learn fill in your bits and pieces. Yeah. And but it's completely interacting.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

I can't even begin to describe it's like me trying to write a horror mystery. Like it's not the same. It's it's a completely, completely different technique because when you're on stage, you're projecting, you're over emoting your your when you're doing a musical like that. And this is all quiet, subtle, you know, it's so different. I'm so impressed that she did. I mean, obviously, I'm sure she had other training besides musicals, but just the fact that she could just snap in and and do it like that was pretty amazing. It's great.

SPEAKER_05 28:52

And Derek had done a little bit of TV, but uh, you know, the two of them ended up being a fantastic combination. I have more casting questions I want to ask you a little bit later.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Well, the fact that none of them were singing isn't so my my fun my fun claim to fame is I've had so more Broadway people in my movies than anybody else, and they never sing. I've had every I've had One Royal Holiday, which is one of my favorite movies that I've done.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

So good.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Had it was it was before Broadway opened back up after COVID. So we had Victoria Clark, you know, and we had Laura Osnes, and we had Aaron Tavate, and we had Tom McGowan, and we had like it's just it was just like this list of people, and they they sang for like five seconds at Christmas Peral, you know, and so Jeremy Jordan had an Aka movie.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

Jeremy Jordan in Hawk and Raya.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

So I ain't singing that either. I love him. Man, sad.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

Um, he also mentioned, and I don't know how much time you're gonna with Anne Margaret, but he said she was very nervous, but a complete sweetheart. She just really wanted to do well.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah, she was very quiet, very, very sweet though.

SPEAKER_05 29:55

I mean, this is somebody that was opposite Elvis in Viva Las Vegas. I mean, once upon a time, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think she's I still come across that video where she's dancing.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

That's amazing video. Yeah, it's a great video.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

She's just probably she's done a lot in her life. She's just like, you know what? I'm just gonna hang, I'm just gonna sit here and I couldn't believe I could not believe we got her for this. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

How did that how did that end up going? No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I have no clue. I probably uh actually honestly, it was probably John Putch because he knows everybody, he has connections, he if he knows who he wants, he he can usually find a way to get it. He goes after it, eh? I feel like it was him. If I if you know, that's like a vague little blip in my memory that I think it might have been him. So let's just let's just give him credit for it. Okay, we'll give him props for that.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

Super funny.

SPEAKER_05 30:43

And then a little hallmark magic by the last one here's a little bit the the shooting locations John told me about. So the I guess only three days were filmed in Manhattan at Radio City Music Hall, uh, one day over in Brooklyn, and then the rest was pretty much shot uh up in upstate Albany, um, Kingston, Poughkeepsie. Uh so yeah, the about four days kind of in in I guess you would say New York proper there between Brooklyn and and Manhattan, and the rest uh was upstate.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

It was pretty interesting. I have a great picture, it's one of my favorite ones where they it was what one of those NYPD signs where they literally closed down the street in front of Radio City and have the movie on it, and I was just you know, who gets that either? Who gets the right street to film? And then the tourists are taking pictures, and I was just like, hee! It was I don't get I don't get I don't get starstruck and I don't get too this all this whole thing was just overwhelmingly amazing and exciting, and I was definitely just in shock that it was happening. I mean, you know, it was just it was great. I had now I never thought I would have a bigger movie to happen than that, but I guess the Chiefs one ended up being even bigger than well that was yeah, that was pretty big, pretty pretty big too. I didn't get to go to set, I didn't go to set for that one, so really Radio City still remains number one in my set visit thing. Yeah, yeah, it didn't work out for that to get to Kansas City at that exact day, but I heard it was miserably hot, so it probably was the best. That movie cracked me up, it was so good.

SPEAKER_06 32:11

I really enjoyed it. It really was funny one.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

Yeah, yeah, because so many Hallmark movies are filmed in the summer for the Christmas season, but this one was was in the cold in January and February. So this one was, yeah. It had to be really cold upstate that time uh time of year, I'm sure. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, it was it was cold, and it was um, you know, it's funny because I always think of things of COVID or not COVID, you know, it's like a lot of my shoot are you know, having to take tests before you could get on set, and you know, there's a whole guy whose job was coordinating COVID tests and all that stuff. And um they looked a little different then because my three movies around COVID were that this one, One Royal Holiday, and Wedding Every Weekend. And you can see in all the movies where there's like a little more space between people and there's not quite as many extras and all that stuff. So um I'm glad that's over.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

We all are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

For sure. All right, Rich, does that wrap up the fun facts? That are the fun facts.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

Thanks for Julie for confirming. Uh I think we I think we had them all right there.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah, excellent, excellent.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

All right, so Rich, you your question is up next.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

Oh, I get the next one. Okay, well, I guess this kind of goes into a little bit, Julie's already talking talk started talking about the process of writing it. I'm just kind of curious how long it took from the time you basically started whether it'd be an outline or whatever, till literally the final draft was done. I mean, how long are we talking here?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Wow, that's a really good question. I could look on my phone, but you'd have to cut this.

SPEAKER_05 33:38

I mean, are are we talking months, a year?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

I don't I don't um I you know, I think um I think it was a few months. I mean, it's just it's really not about the writing process from on my end. It's about the kind of the waiting for approval to move on to the next phase. Okay. Um, I wouldn't say, I mean, I would say that the, you know, I went through the normal amount of drafts and the normal amount of notes. Um, and you know, luckily everyone seemed to be on board with what we were doing. And, you know, obviously the changes are made. Um, it was definitely too long because there were so many people in this movie. There were so many side, you know, side quests and and and subplots and stuff like that. And, you know, it it always made me sad to have to cut any of those because they all felt really interesting and important to me. Um, so it was definitely long. So that was sort of one of the things that took a little bit, you know, longer to get through was to sort of just try and trim this into something manageable. Um, but the reason there's an extended cut is because even then it was still too long. Um but generally, you know, it doesn't take it takes me, it just depends how it's flowing, you know. Like I have a you know, I have a page count I like to meet every single day. Um, and I try and I try and get through that. And I normally do kind of the fast draft, the vomit draft first, and try and get everything that's in my head out there. And then I like to kind of go back in and start really writing and fine-tuning. It's more fun for me that way. Um, but yeah, it didn't take any longer than normal, you know. Um probably probably a couple months to write the actual teleplay, and probably a couple months, maybe a little more for the outline because that's the part everyone was approving. Um, I always find the outline actually to be more difficult because that's where you're really getting into the nitty-gritty of the story. Like I know the dialogue's the dialogue, and that's to me, that's the fun part. But it's just making sure everyone's character arcs are making sense and everybody's, you know, everyone's taken care of and everything's at the right place at the right time. Um, that's the harder. You have to cut that's where you're coming up with all the you know, the meat of it. Teleplay part is the fun part in my mind.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

Was Hallmark more involved in the story than a normal movie might be doing seeing it?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Um they're always involved. I mean, they're always highly involved in the story. I would say more, yes, more this time because it was such a high-stakes project that everybody needed to be fully. I I don't know, you know, I don't know what happens behind the scenes, but I just know that there are more people reading every draft and reading everything that comes in and making sure you you're getting more notes from more people. But the, you know, when you have a good executive, um, that person will kind of condense everything into one into one thing and give it to you like that. So it's not like you're getting 10 phone calls, you're getting one phone call with you know, where Samantha would sort of just distill all the notes down into one document for me and we would talk about them and then we would sort of talk out whatever if there was ever kind of a question or anything like that. So it's you know so I have my one point person, and she was the one sort of dealing with all the madness and craziness and chaos, and just left me to do what I was doing. So, and then I generally like to stay with the project all the way through production. Um, if I if if I'm close enough with the producers or the director, where if there's a couple lines in you changing, I would rather do it myself than have somebody else put it in last second because like you can kind of tell the difference in the voice, you know. So I so I was able to do that too, which is great.

SPEAKER_06 37:04

Rinning. Yeah, I had a question more about sort of the story. I'm sorry, I have to kind of read it because I'm not the best of memory. But what I wrote down was a like what I really liked is Maggie in this story wasn't just a romance, it felt like she was learning who she really wanted to be. Um and the Roquette sisterhood helping her uh bring that out in herself. And was that stories sort of the heart of the story, or did that evolve as you were writing this, or was that kind of the main target that you were going for?

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Well, it was kind of in the research and the story breaking itself, where um I talked to where I did talk to some Roquettes and people involved with that, where in just researching them and and seeing that the sisterhood came up so much that was such a huge thing. And you know, wanting her to have these, you know, these people that she's that she's becoming close friends with, you know, where even one of the characters had never really had a friend, she couldn't trust anybody. She was trying to claw her way up, and then that this magical sisterhood, you know, brings brings everybody together and makes them be the best that they can be. So it kind of evolved that way where just in my research, seeing that come up over and over, it didn't, it's it felt like we that was something we could not ignore or why we wouldn't want to, right? But it's almost that's why I love this movie because it's sort of a love story with it's you know, with Jenna Claire and Derek's characters, but then also with these girls who find this family together, and then she and she's finding you know what you what you can do when you have the support of people around you. And you know, I hate to say this, but like you know, a lot of times in Hollywood, women can be pretty awful to each other, and you you're very lucky if you can find people that really can support you and and can really do want the best for you. Like there's two other writers who are we call ourselves our work wives, and we're like this little we we just everyone knows we know we we talk every single day, and it's Nina Wyman and Tracy Andreen, and we just you know, we l we truly, truly, if I can't do a job, I want them to have it. If they can't have it, they want us me to have it. Like we talk every day. We are so we could never do this without each other. So that's what that's we we have that same sisterhood feeling that the Roquettes do, which is a I why I think it was easier for me to write that because I get it.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Yeah, well, you you kind of had that uh Janet's character. Um she was kind of um competitive at first, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

So yeah, and that's what she let him in. Right, yes, you gotta open that heart, open your heart and let him in and trust people. Very hard to trust people in this industry, truly. I mean, I've I've been burned before, and it and it's real, and it's hard to trust people in any kind of entertainment, whether it's rockettes or musicals or plays or screenwriting.

SPEAKER_06 39:49

So you really got you really got that. And that's that's one of the things I was curious about. Like I thought, no way are the roquettes like this nice to each other, you know. But it seems like they really were, and that's that really warms my heart to hear that. I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

It was I wondered about that. They are amazing, they are amazing, and they're such they're athletes. I mean, that what they do is oh yes, it's blows it blows my mind how how hard that is. When we went we went to a show while I was writing and when it was all sort of getting, you know, when we were working everything out, and I went we went to see a show um while they were in season, I was just I I had only been once many, many years before where I wasn't thinking about the tech, I wasn't thinking about all that stuff back then. Right. Just just sitting there watching them, just thinking, my gosh, like it's it's amazing to me. I mean, they are in such they are in such good shape. The fact what they do what they do, they a lot of them are moms, they have families, they you know, they're they're amazing women.

SPEAKER_04 40:43

Yeah, wow. They truly are. Um so this film takes place during Christmas, but at its core, um, it's beautifully captures the excitement of being young and standing at a crossroads in life. Have you ever made a decision in your own life or career that felt as risky as Maggie's?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Moving to LA, pretty pretty much, be it. That was that was um literally, I know I didn't know anybody in that the stand-up comedian guy that I met, you know, he couldn't really he couldn't really do anything for me. He was just a writer. Like he didn't have I had to, I really had to do it myself. And I so I moved up there, I got a job waiting tables at this restaurant in Beverly Hills and just sort of you know figured stuff out. But that was a pretty big one just moving to LA by myself, like knowing no one out there, right? I didn't know anybody had a lot of crime going on outside my window, and it was a little scary. It was definitely laugh about it now. Well, yeah, like you know, like the helicopter lights are like coming through.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Oh my gosh. Wow the suspect's probably right outside your door. So like it was just um um that was definitely a risk. And actually, I will say maybe the second one is moving to Connecticut and just believing that I could still keep working and have you know like have the same connection to the industry, but living out here, which um it worked out, it worked out good. So yeah, we're um that was a great decision, but it was that's another one that was hard.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Interesting. All right, Renee.

SPEAKER_06 42:24

So you know I don't want to ask anything that's too personal, but I I found the dynamic between uh the main character and the mom very interesting. Um I was and I was wondering if that was something that you pulled from your own personal life experience, like where you maybe had I can see a parent going, like, are you gonna become a writer? Why don't you do something, you know, get a job and doing this or doing something else? Is that something that was kind of in your life? You don't have to answer if that's too personal, but or just a creative thing that you did.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

No, it was a creative thing because my mom, for you know, um my mom, she was not very expressive, and she's not doesn't say a lot, but what she always would say was that I could I would do it anything I put my mind to, that I would decide it. If I decided I was gonna do it, I was gonna do it. And so she told me that it didn't worry her in the least that I was moving to LA by myself to pursue this because she knew that like anytime I decided I would do something, I I would make it happen somehow. So um I was never discouraged. My dad, um, who's he he's he's passed, but he um he was a big theater nerd. Um he went to San Francisco State and has a mat he got a master's degree in theatrical lighting. Wow. And um never but then again, again, that's that's the stage that we it's nothing we ever it didn't have any connection to me to Hollywood or anything like that. Because he just by the time I came around, um, he had already gone to Vietnam, um, came back and just needed to get a job and was given an opportunity as a longshoreman. So my dad is. Is probably the only um Jewish longshoreman with a master's degree in theater. So that's always a good claim to fame. But I think he I mean he saw me at the very beginning and he was so excited. Like when he when I started first started writing working as an assistant, that's when he they were able to come visit before he got sick. And he was just he all he did want to do was talk to the lighting guys, and he was so excited about it. So they've all been really pretty supportive. Um my son, this is funny. I'm I'm probably more I'm probably more cynical than my parents because I know what it is. Like they didn't know what I was getting into, but I do know it. And my son is very musical, he you know, he's very talented, and I don't want him to go to the you know what I mean, but I'm not saying he I'm not discouraging it, but I'm not encouraging it. But he's uh he's gonna start applying to colleges in you know this fall, so I'm like, you know, you can minor in any fun theater, music, whatever, but you you I'm gonna need you to major in something else.

SPEAKER_05 45:03

We're we're in the same boat. I have a daughter who'll be applying this fall as well. Is that right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Yeah, it's gonna be uh it's gonna be a crazy year. But um, yeah, I he's like everyone keeps, oh, he's got the he's so talented. He's you know, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking, like, please don't move to LA, please don't move to LA.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Well, it sounds like the creative genes run strong in your family for sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

He reminds me it's funny because my son plays guitar and he sings, and my that's what my dad used to do. He used to play guitar and sing in San Francisco in like, you know, in in nightclubs to make money and stuff like that. So it's definitely there, but I just know how hard it is and how much the industry is changing. Um when people ask me for advice on how to break in, I I literally cannot tell them. It's completely changed from when I started. There's nothing that I did exists. So um, you know, it because my stuff involves fax machines and pagers and and a book. And a book that would tell you the names of all the producers, and you'd have to go through the book and you'd have to fax recorded phones and yeah, it's completely changed.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

Getting our Netflix and DVDs in the mail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

It's uh oh no, it was way before that. Even before that, yeah. Yeah, no, this is the 90s. There's nothing, there's no help.

SPEAKER_06 46:12

Oh 90s.

SPEAKER_05 46:12

Wow, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:13

Yeah, I really like that that interaction between her mom and her. I just thought that was a lovely part of the story. I enjoyed that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah, and I agree, Renee. I think that the scene um in the restaurant when she finally tells her parents, when Maggie tells her parents, and the mom and the mom and dad are walking away, and there's this sort of smile on the mom's face when she turns around, and it's almost like she's proud of her for standing up for herself, you know, and it kind of reminds me, maybe related to what you said about your mom, how she always told you you could do whatever you wanted. Although, of course, in those times it was still That's right.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

And that's what I wanted to do, is that in those times women were just not encouraged to go off and do what they wanted to do. They were they were expected to do certain things, you know, in society, especially if you're from a you know a family in Philadelphia that you know they have certain expectations. So that's um that's what I really liked about that dynamic was because that's when it was really starting to change, is exactly when that's why we I think I'm pretty sure that's why we picked that year, sort of that's when things were it wasn't quite the 60s yet, you know. It was just sort of it was just at that point where women were starting to think, you know what, I don't have to do it like this.

SPEAKER_06 47:23

And you had a you had a male version counterpoint too, with the son wanting to be a photographer, uh, graphic art I forget what it's called, not graphic artist, but it's something like that. Photographer, yeah. That was a photojournalist or whatever. Photojournalist, I mean that was in the same vein, just you know, except this was the the uh the dad and and and the son. I thought that was interesting as well.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Yeah, yeah. So did any of the characters surprise you as you were writing the story?

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Um I think Janet, you know, um the one who was sort of the heart, you know, tough the tough one. Right. Um because I I loved how it wasn't that that she surprised me in the writing, it was just that she is that the actress brought so much more to that role, so much depth to it. And you know, I'd love I'd love to take credit for some of those moments. And maybe they were maybe it was there a little on the page, but then some that you know, you when you ha when you cast the right people, like that whole cast brought so much more to it. And that's what you want, you know. You don't want to just none of these movies are just like, oh, this was a good movie because it was a good script. Like you have to have that magical thing where you have an awesome director, producer, you know, the cast. Everybody in that cast was fantastic. Um so it was I wouldn't say a surprise, but I just really enjoyed their finding these voices of who they were and and realizing how different each girl could actually be but still be strong enough to be doing what they're doing. Because you can be you don't have to be really strong or any of these you you can be a different person and all have the same goal and just come at it and looking at it in a different way. But like all the scenes of them in the restaurant, um my favorite because I just love the camaraderie and um those scenes. There was a lot, there was a lot more in those scenes that that we had to cut.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

Oh those are really good too.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And I just love that because the focus on the friendships, which you know, we really saw I I feel like too in two Barcelona, you know, those movies, and yeah, I do like movie.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Yeah, I guess I guess I do that a lot. Like Field Day was one that was a friendship, that was definitely a friendship, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Um the focus, and like you said, because women are so hard on each other, and it's just it's so great to see them on screen. And yeah, you might bicker, but nobody else can mess with my friend, you know what I mean? Like it's like that you want that build each other up, which I thought was was really well done in this movie.

unknown 49:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Well, that well, that's the the the those scenes were where they each kind of told their story. So I wish they were their background.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Those are hard because you know, it's it's not easy to do backstory without it seeming like really, you know, just okay, here comes the exposition, here comes like you know, like there's it's hard to get the that's the hardest challenge of any of these movies is to you know give a backstory without it being really boring or without depending on voiceover.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

Right. So were there scenes that ended up becoming more important than you thought they would?

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Um that's a hard that's hard for me to remember. I actually well I actually think that the moment that they I think the moment they first saw the stage, the way that it was shot and the way that the with like you said, like the drone and all that. Um I it was a moment in the script where they, you know, they walk in and they gasp in there, so you know, when they see the stage, they're just overwhelmed by it. And it was such a small moment in the stage direction, but it just became such a beautiful moment where you could see in each character, specifically in each character, sort of their reaction to that moment and how and how much it meant to them. So yeah, I think it um that another that's another example of it being elevated past what I wrote.

SPEAKER_05 51:04

I found it very curious. So Hallmark took a chance with Jinnah Claire and Derek as the two lead roles in this big huge film. Two actors who had never worked for Hallmark before, and obviously it turned out incredibly well. They absolutely killed it. Did you have any inclination as you were writing that they wouldn't be going, Hallmark wouldn't be going with some of their tried and true actors, and instead would be taking a chance on two brand new uh actors to the network?

SPEAKER_00 51:25

I am very rarely consulted for in forgotten. I forget. Um I have um no, you know what? I I the only reason I would ever become a producer is to be able to do have a little bit more, not more say, but just be involved in that kind of a thing because it's fun. It's I I have on a few occasions been able to watch the audition tapes of you know for a lead role of one of my movies, and it's just so fun to watch like 10 different people do 10 different versions of the same stuff. And it helps me. But um, yeah, no, I never I never thought about it. And actually, I never really have anybody in my head unless I already know I'm writing for that person for sure, like Tyler, or you know what I mean, or something like that. That's the only time. Otherwise, they become people, they become actual real people in my head that are not they're not uh connected to any actors in my mind. Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

So sometimes you know who is gonna be in it before you write, or well, I did with you know, with Ashley and Allie too, you know, with the Barcelona. Oh, right, right, right, with the two Barcelona.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

And I knew it was Tyler for um The Chief Chiefs and Um Not that I can't remember more much many more than that, honestly. Like I think or or or sometimes you'll get a cast before you've written the next like I I'll do like a final draft for production sometimes, you know, where you're doing like last-minute things. Oh, we can't shoot here, it needs to be here, so we need to change, you know, change it to reflect the new location, all that kind of stuff. Um, and then sometimes I'll know who the actor is by that time, so every so often I can kind of go back in and tweak if I think there's something that that person would be really good at, or but you know, um, I don't always get that opportunity. And and you know what, the Hallmark actors are so good, they could pretty much they just make it work. I don't I never I never really worry about it, and I don't think there's anybody I've that where I've seen the cast and went like, ugh, that's I don't think that's ever happened.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Well, that's a good thing. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

They can work with.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Well, after the movie came out, was there a compliment or reaction from someone that really stuck with you? Like a fan, a rocket, well, a family movie.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yeah, it was Kristen Jenowath, actually. Oh, because she we there they they showed the movie at you know, in in Radio City, and she before but she so basically she said, like, you know, it was so wonderful and I loved it so much, and I cried and all that. And that was to me just because I just love her. So that was my Starstruck, that was my little Starstruck moment for that night. Um, you know, when people come it's it's very weird, but when I get compliments, like I I love them and they're wonderful and I appreciate them, but like um if I ever really believed all the things people say about me, I would be probably not even working anymore because I wouldn't think I needed to try so hard, you know. Like I don't I still treat every job like it's my last or first. Like, yeah, I try and um well no, probably like my first, but I don't I don't want it to be my last. I I never you know, I try not to rest on my laurels at all and uh and I would never phone in anything. So um I'd love to get the compliments in. As a writer, of course, we're all neurotic, so we only remember the negative reviews. Yeah. Even that I don't I don't really remember anything super negative. I don't. I mean, it was just um you know, I I think that I would have loved it if the extended version had aired the first the first night. I think it would have it's a better movie that way the way it is now. But that that's not even possible with the way advertising works and the time slots and all that stuff. But they did it again, they did it right away, they had the extended version. Um but yeah, so I mean we so that the re my hope that's a very long answer to me saying I if somebody really amazing said that something really nice, I probably already forgot it because oh well Kristen Chenoah, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah, yeah, that's a good but then I tried to then I tried to message her about something once and she didn't even answer, so she didn't really know like is it's not like you know what I'm just doing.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Remember it wasn't personal, she was just probably busy, she didn't have time to answer.

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Yeah, all right. So you've written um uh movie sets and all kinds of places, errors and and time periods. Is there a location or like an error or a Christmas tradition that you still haven't um explored but would want to?

SPEAKER_00 55:58

There are a lot of locations I want to do. Yeah, there are. Um I want to do Scotland. Oh this is just places I want to go, by the way. Um, I really wanted to do with the River Cruise movie. I didn't know they already have these in development. And I went in, I'm like, you guys, uh I'm gonna do on the Danube. I'm like, yeah, no, we already have two of those.

SPEAKER_05 56:22

Tracy did pretty good with that one. Yeah, she did, she did.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

And that's the thing. Like, you know, I guess that's if anyone else was gonna do it, it needed to be Tracy. So, and hers is awesome. She did a great job with it. So um, I the look, I moved to New England because I'm so enamored with the whole vibe of Connecticut and New England, and I just love Christmas in I love where I am. I mean, it's it feels like I really do feel like I live in kind of this perpetual Hallmark movie, especially in the fall and the winter. And so I don't feel like kind of that when I lived in LA, all I wanted to do was get out and go somewhere that was cute and walkable and had colonials and had felt like felt like a Hallmark movie. And now I don't feel that anymore. So now I want to go farther. So um I would love to do, like I said, like Scotland, Switzerland, um, which I don't know if they've done. This is a problem. Sometimes I get a really good idea and then I look it up, and it turns out, oh yeah, they already can't watch everything. You know, it just doesn't right. You guys are there, you guys know way more about all these movies than I ever would. And I some I have a couple, there's a couple podcasters that I know that are encyclopedic with their knowledge, and I just would I would just text them like, hey, did we ever do how we're gonna do this? Do we ever do this? Yeah, yeah, that's rich. Yeah, definitely. I'm gonna use rich to talk about, but uh you know, I mean I set I set two of my movies where I live, but even though they were they I they were set in my town now, but then they were filmed in Canada, but like it still said the name of the town, so I thought that was kind of fun. Yeah, that's cool. We reverse engineered a Christmas festival because I put one in the script only because our town doesn't have one, and it's it worked. I was like an evil genius. I'm like, watch, this is they're gonna I'm gonna put a festival in, and then they're gonna feel like they should do one, and they did. Oh, that's so cool! So it's good.

SPEAKER_06 58:13

Yeah, I always like a Christmas festival and a Christmas tea uh tree shopping scene. I would love those.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

I do love the Christmas tree lot with the twinkly lights, and you know, this that's the thing. So our challenge for Christmas is always, and it was easier on this movie because it was stuff that no one has it, it wasn't kind of the usual, it was all new, really. Um, and but the challenge for Christmas is really just doing kind of this the those things we all want to see in a Hallmark movie, but try and find a different way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Right that is that is the challenge, but that that comes from the characters, that comes from these people that now exist. Like, how is this person gonna do it differently?

SPEAKER_04 58:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

So what is something that people almost never ask you about a holiday spectacular that you wish they would?

SPEAKER_00 59:01

Um that's a really good question. I don't have it, I don't even know. That's a really something you want people to know that um no, because I actually um I you because we kind of already talked about it, which so you didn't ask it, but I do like to tell people without but you didn't ask it, but I like to tell people kind of how it came about because I want, you know, like like because I just like the idea that we just sort of you know, just kind of the random family connection that got made this huge thing happen. That just was just really that's not a story we tell that I'm able to tell a lot because you know it it hasn't come up. So I I would so that would have been my answer, but I already told you to. So well, that's all right. That works.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

All right, so we're gonna do some rapid all right questions here, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:47

All right, let's do it. This is the most nerve-wracking part of any interview for me. I swear to God. Hopefully, these they're not they're not hard.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

They're not I have no idea what they're gonna say either, Julie. So here we go.

SPEAKER_04 59:57

All right, so here we go. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

Eggnog, yes, please, or ooh, no way.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

Do I get to answer? Yes, go ahead. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. Renee Rich.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:11

Uh this one actually oh, Rich, go ahead. Uh yes, please, but I think I know what Renee's gonna say since it was a movie that we covered of yours, Julie. So Renee?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:20

Oh, me?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:22

Well, I'm not gonna ask about a movie. I'm gonna ask something that Rich mentioned to me. Is that is there a thing where you mention or have ranch dressing be in every movie? This is not mine, this is Rich's question, but I've taken it from him.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Um, did you must have seen my post the other day about the uh World Cup? Did you see it?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

I did not, but maybe Rich did.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

I yes, I think I've well, I just I have a thing. I love ranch dressing and I hate bad ranch dressing, and I've put it in, it just sort of happened and then it became a thing. So I I think I mentioned it in probably like four or five movies about ranch dressing. And now just only because now it's like a thing, it's like an Easter egg. Now you have to do it. Yeah, yeah. There's probably 10 people on the wood in the world that know that that's a thing. But um, but I was I just posted the other day because all these um I was just in Boston yesterday because I wanted to um we went to see Le Miz, and then when I wanted to hang out with Scottish soccer fans, my family and I, we hung out with like the Scots, and it was amazing, it was so fun. Um, but apparently they're all into ranch dressing because the Europeans don't have it. So there was a whole story about how um they're trying to smuggle ranch dressing back into their countries, and that you know the TSA is telling them that's a liquid and you can't. And I thought I posted that I've never I've never felt more connected to you know the world as I do with this dressing. I take it very seriously. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:46

So, Renee, eggnog, yes or no?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

Uh or ooh, no way.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:52

I'm kind of in the middle of the road. I mean, I can take it or leave it, honestly. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:58

I'll drink it. You know, but what a respectful type of Julie. So the third movie we ever covered was Finding Santa. And in that movie, they served hot, they served hot eggnog, and Renee called out as like, whoa, eggnog's not supposed to be served. Yeah, hot right off of the stove.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

I don't I don't remember what happened there. I'm sure I must have seen a recipe where it was it was heated. That's how it was done. Renee, can I encourage you to try the Kirkland uh boozy eggnog next week? I was just gonna say spiked eggnog. I'm gonna write it down right now. There you go. Yeah, that's a great that's the whole we get that boozy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Got it. I'm writing it down so I don't forget it. We do get that. All right, so next question real tree or artificial tree? Julie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Okay, it's the answer is real, but we're Jewish. So I mean it's I'm gonna tell you the answer is real tree. During COVID, we me and my husband lost our minds and said, we're gonna get a Christmas tree because you know what? It's we just everyone bought one weird thing during COVID and that was ours. And we tried it, we bought a tree and we tried to put it up, and we had uh every single thing that could go wrong where it was clear that God was like, nope, this is not God, you know, God with the hammer of of God said absolutely not. And we we by the we we took it out of the box and it was back in the box and sitting going back to the place within two hours of that attempt. So I love I love a Christmas tree. I love a real Christmas tree. I go to I I decorate my friends' trees, I go and hang out with my friends and their trees. I love Christmas more than anybody, but but having an actual tree in our house was apparently the line that we could not cross. That what that was it, yeah. I have I have stockings, I have ornaments, I have a ladder of ornaments now. It's like a vintage ladder, and I put all my ornaments on the ladder. I have all the other things, but a tree, no, no, that was not gonna happen. But I love them. So real.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:57

All right, what about you, Rich?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:59

Uh, it used to be a real tree, but is as a family's collected some really nice ornaments throughout the year. We're afraid they're gonna break on sometimes on the real tree. So now we're an artificial tree, so all those ornaments are displayed but safe, and we don't worry about them for them. So it's been a little bit of both throughout the years.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:14

All right, Renee?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:15

Yeah, I I like a natural tree in theory, but just for ease and convenience.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:21

Uh, and I used to live in a place where they had a vaulted ceiling in the living room. And Costco has like this eight-foot or ten-foot, you know, tree. I always that was my dream to have just by the window a giant tree. So I like an artificial tree just because it's easier.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

You can get that spray. That's what we do. We get the garland that's real now. Like that just I put it in the day. I have those little sticks. I'm good. I'm happy. It smells good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

Yeah, we like the we like the pine-scented cantles. Candles cantles. Cantles. Do I know how to speak? I have a pine scene behind me somewhere. Yeah. Candles, yeah. We we light those. We're artificial trees all the way.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

And pre-lit, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

And pre-lit, yeah. I'm not stringing anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

All right. So classic Christmas carols or modern holiday songs.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Should I go? Yeah. Um, we like the classics with the coal, like the knacking coal and all that stuff. That is what that is what we prefer. And that's what's on the the and that's why I like like Hallmark radio tends to lean toward those old standards. The classics.

unknown 1:05:26

Rich?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm with the classics. Yeah. Renee? There's a Hallmark radio. There is on XM every year. They do Hallmark uh Christmas. I I did not know that. Hallmark and all the Hallmark actors say, Hi, this is Jenna Claire Mason, and this is my favorite Christmas song.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:43

I did not know this. I didn't know that either. A reason to subscribe to XM at least for a month or two.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

They do a pretty good job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:51

And they do a they do a yacht rock Christmas now too, but we're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Oh, they do?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

We only literally had a yacht rock uh cover band show right here.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

I'm embarrassed to say this. What was the question? Oh, that's all right. Classic Christmas carols or modern holiday songs.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Renee, you and I are just I'm embarrassed.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

That's okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:16

And you know, my favorite song is it's the most wonderful time of year. I just love it. I get goosebumps. I get choked up. I just love it. Yeah. Classic all the way. All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

All right. Open Christmas presents open presents on Christmas Eve or Christmas morning. Well, Julie, never mind. No, no. Don't jump to conclusions, Amy. Do you do? Okay. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

I'm telling you, we have everything except the tree. Except the tree. Oh, okay, okay. I'm sorry. Like, and we're both Jewish. That's what's so funny. Like, we just love Christmas. We we have everything but the tree. So Santa, and now my son's 17, so like, you know, we're it's yeah, it's a little bit different. But Santa, we have stockings, and Santa does come and he eats his bites of cookie, and the reindeer have their carrots, and there are there are presents in the morning from Santa. And uh we spend Christmas Eve generally with other like out like you know, with friends or whatever, you know, where there's real a real tree or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

Yeah. You gather around someone else's tree. Someone else's tree. How about you, Rich?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:23

Yeah, it's Christmas morning for our family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:25

Renee. So I come from a Hispanic family, and we would go into Mexico, because I was born here. We would go into Mexico and the whole family would travel and they would meet. So we would open them Christmas Eve at midnight. Oh, everybody would stay up till four or five, six in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:44

Okay. And then you'd you'd you'd get up at 12, 1, or 2 o'clock and have tamales and menudo or whatever. Oh, there you go. That works. Yeah, that's great. Christmas Eve. Because the the kids weren't patient enough to wait till the mornings like no way. Right, right. Christmas Eve for me. And I like that. Christmas Eve at midnight. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

Here's the last one. Ugly Christmas sweater, wear it or quietly judge it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Wear it. I have a whole collection. Same. Awesome. I have an ugly Hanukkah sweater. I have an ugly Christmas sweater. Um yeah. I like an I like an ugly Christmas sweater party. Yes. Me too. You know, I've even been that sort of I mean, we all do that in all of our scripts now too. Like that, that's not, you know, that's that's kind of a go-to now. But I do love it. The ugly Christmas sweater.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

I mean, I've been I've been wearing a sweater and someone's like, oh, do you wear your ugly Christmas sweater? And I'm like, no, I like the normal Christmas mine. Thank you very much. Usually it's one of our kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

Usually it's one of the kids, but it's one of them, it's one of them Beverly sweaters from the biggest.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

What about you, Rich?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

Yeah, I guess I'd say I'd admire them uh from uh from a distance, but uh I do want to go to an ugly sweater party like I see in so many a Hallmark movie. I'm dying to go to one I don't like sweaters, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:12

I'm I'm too hot.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:14

So I don't like wearing a sweater. Uh but if I would wear one if there was an occasion, but I'm in Southern California. I mean, yeah, our Christmas is 70 was 75 degrees.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

I moved Renee. It's been like Christmas.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:28

It never felt like Christmas. I lived in Orange County all my life. Like I could not experience Christmas, you know, with actual snow or something like that. I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Yeah, well, my husband grew up in Woodland Hills, so he's like a total he's an LA guy. Yeah. Well, I like them, but I don't wear them.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

Hey, Renee, you gotta start a uh ugly shirt t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:47

Yeah, tradition there.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:49

That's that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

Look, Julie, you can you can write one now. You can write about an ugly shirt in California.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:59

I'm actually picturing Renee like putting ornaments in his beard and lights and just sort of working like that. I think that would be cool. That would be I might do that. They won't let me do like hot weather Christmas. They just don't uh like an Australian Christmas, you know? No, because no, everyone wants the Hallmark Christmas. Everybody wants that look, you know, and I just think I if they do it, it's it's gonna have to be really a really, really good reason, you know. Like it has to be like a big I've pitched I've pitched a lot a bunch of times, and it just doesn't ever really work out. I'm sure there's been some somebody who's done it, but generally they would like rather have it be, you know, Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

Have the feel, the snow, the yeah, the cold, the sweaters. Yeah, yeah. That's okay. All right. Well, um, we have taken up a lot of your time, Julie. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Like, yeah, no one's here, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Yeah, your whole family, you're like, woo, let's go for another drink. I I wonder if it's blasphemy to say this, but I'm I'm gonna go watch a K drama now that I have that TV voice. Now that you I really love them.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

I don't know if you guys have gotten into them. You may not have time, but they're they're they're actually great if you've ever watched them.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

No, we haven't yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Oh my god, they're fantastic. They're like hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, high budget Hallmark movies that last 16 hours. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:27

Yeah, I'm watching the attorney, the amazing attorney woo or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:30

Yeah, yeah. See, Renee knows. That was my mom watches it in Spanish. It's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Yeah, it's a good starter one, actually, Renee. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

All right, Rich and Renee. Do you have any closing thoughts for Julie?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:44

Thank you for doing this. Uh it's such a pleasure to meet you. Totally my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

I love I love that you guys still think about this movie and and and love it, and it makes it just really makes me happy. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:54

Yeah, thank you for writing such an amazing movie. I was telling before you logged on, Julie, I was telling everybody else, you know, I saw the Rockets for the first time just this past December. And I literally had waited to watch the movie. My wife and I knew we were gonna go to New York eventually for Christmas, and it turns out she was there on business, so I literally had waited all these years to watch it. I watched it on my way to New York.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:12

And I saw the Rockets like two days later. Uh oh my gosh, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:18

I mean, thank you for you and every John Punch, everybody for just making just an incredible movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

It is so darn good. It was.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Now, do you have any upcoming projects that you can tease or mention at this time?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

I can, I I did uh I did some work on a Christmas movie for this coming season. Oh um, but I probably can't mention it yet. I have a couple non-Christmas things that I'm working on that I can't probably mention yet anymore. Uh yeah, nope, got nothing. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

Well, hey, the fact that we know something is coming at Christmas is good is good enough for me. Yes, that's very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

I think they're I actually think it's starting to shoot. Uh I think it'll you may see something about it in the next couple weeks, let's put it that way, because I think they're starting soon. But um, I just finished sort of my last bit on it. So wow. Exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

Very cool. I'll find it and then we'll review it right in a few months.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

I promise you it's yeah, you will you'll if you pay any attention to that kind of stuff, it'll you'll you'll see what I was talking about. And then you can ask me a follow-up question later. Definitely. We'll find out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

All right. So where can our listeners keep up with you? Do you have a website, social media?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Right now it would just be Instagram. So it's Julie underscore Sherman underscore wolf. I am a non um I'm not a regular poster, but I try. I'm trying more, trying harder. You know. Yeah, do more, Julie. You're not doing it. I feel pressure. I feel too much pressure to do to do that. And I keep thinking, well, no one, I can't be an influencer. Who what are they gonna say? Like, oh, here's what Julie, here's the the the twisty she puts in her hair when she crawls downstairs to sit at her desk. Like, what am I selling? Here's my you know, like I'm I'm wearing yoga pants and I have my hair in a bun, and that's you know, that's that's the fabulous life that I'm selling. Would you like to pay me? Would you like to collab?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

Would you like to collab? Yeah, that's be an influencer. Yeah. All right. Well, this this was so much fun. Thank thank you everybody for joining us and sharing your stories. Until next time. Cheers.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:31

Cheers. My glass is empty. Oh, that's good. Thank you.