Q1 2026 Is Almost Through… Now What?

We weigh the X-Crafts recent ERJ 2.0 release, celebrate the Marwin's sharp HondaJet 2024 rebuild and consumer-friendly pricing, and pull apart Southwest’s pivot to hub-and-spoke. Spirit’s restructuring and a bold new 787-9 project round out a packed hour.

• ERJ family 2.0 strengths and weaknesses
• Marketing lead times versus delivery windows and buyer trust
• HJet 2024 rebuild highlights, mission fit, upgrade path and price
• Southwest’s route cuts, hub shift and traveler impact
• Spirit’s bankruptcy restructuring and premium seating pivot
• New 787-9 project goals, risks and what long-haulers want
• FS Expo ticket timing, community survey and plans

Please ensure that you all are booking your tickets. Prices go up on March 1. CTP is very proud to announce that we are once again sponsors at this year’s FS Expo.

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Transcript

Opening Banter & Agenda

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Live from the Labor, welcome to the Close Traffic Podcast, an aviation and flight simulation show. Welcome aboard.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

We've got a packed agenda for you all today. Lots to discuss, lots to get through. Q1 is almost through. Now what? That's our title for this week's episode. We're going to cover a couple of different things. First, we're going to start with why Johnny loves the E-Jet and X-Plane so much. The wonderful, reimagined, in-depth realism that they put into that airplane. He he can't sleep at night. He loves it that much. We're going to talk about airport developers. Do we need to see some different variety of airports? I think you know we continue to see the same ones over and over again. We want to get your take on it. The H jet, the new Honda jet, was released for 2024 by our good friends over at Flight FX. What can you guys expect to see from it if you have not picked it up already? We'll get Mr. Charlie's thoughts. We're going to talk a little bit about some real world aviation. Southwest. You know, we've had a shift in the industry for them, specifically around how they go about their operations and the seating changes. Looks like there's some impacts on their routes and schedules as well. Let us know what you guys think. We'll dive a little bit deeper into that. A new chapter for Spirit? I don't know. We'll see. And then we'll close it out with some latest information around FS Expo and the recently released Flight Sim survey. With that, fellas, welcome aboard. How you guys doing? Not all at once.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

I think his mic's messed up. Hit um mute there, bro. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

We'll get it figured out eventually. Yep. Can y'all hear me? Imagine that. Oh my gosh, man. That's what happens when you get this uh this all this newfangled technology. And I'm a little under the weather, so my apologies in the vans. I have that that parks department worker voice right now. Yeah, man, the screenator. O'Reilly's or advanced. Advanced, bro. Gotta go take an old school man.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Oh, you go for the pit boys.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Nah, we ain't got them over here, bro. We got auto, we got O'Reilly's, we got his man, and we got the autozone.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Autozone. Oh, okay. I was gonna say. I don't remember the last time I was at a parts store. Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Man, you love it.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I used to live there every weekend, man. A couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Back in the day, bro. Piecing these cars together. Anywho, man. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But no, man. I was I was well over here. And yeah, just uh looking forward to chopping it up about the old E Jet. What about you, Charlie?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Just hanging in there like a hair in a biscuit.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

What kind of biscuit? Popeye's biscuits. Popeyes, man, because you know them things. They catch everything. Dry, hard, awesome. Nah, man. Everything's good over here. Get on here. Like you said, chop it up, talk some ish.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

That's it, man. That's it.

ERJ 2.0 First Impressions

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Awesome, awesome. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to it. Johnny, we gotta start with you today, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So the EJET has been released. Not to blow up your spot, but you had some interesting thoughts just before it got released. And then they say, Oh, here you go. They must have heard you somehow. And then you have some additional thoughts after that. So tell the people what did you think so far, man? And specifically, we're talking about keep me honest, the Xcraft ERJ family 2.0 for X Plane 12.

Pricing, Systems Depth & Value

SPEAKER_01 4:30

2.0, indeed, indeed. Me being the owner, man, the 1.0. Uh, I don't know. There's something about the ERJ that's always appealed to me, even when they first, the first generation, the 1.0 version. I sent the ever-living snot thing. Even despite it not being the holistic product as you know one would hope it would be. Like really struggled to the point to where they kind of fashioned a their own version of like the Tekton FMS. They came up with some some their iteration, their iteration of the uh the flight management system, which is the Honeywell Primus 1000 series that you'll see on a lot of a lot of the uh ERJ, uh ERJ 140s, 145s, and 135s, but you'll also find a couple of them with the universal FMSs in there as well. But but nevertheless, no, he came up with his own hodgepodge wherever just to get to work. And it worked. I'll I'll I'll you know, don't get me wrong, I'll give him that. It worked, but in my opinion, I think his time would have been better suited to actually working, working toward getting a more realistic rendition of the Honeywell Primary series. And I'm saying all this to kind of set up the backdrop, set up a little context for you guys. So years later, I mean, it was, you know, I'm not the only one that's been looking for one. So we finally get it. And I think they started what they started showing previews of this things, and this is what kind of bothers me. And guys, y'all, y'all know how I feel about you know the first looks and all that. So, you know, feel free to feel free to turn the volume down while you guys listen to my well while I continue my rant. But I understand, I totally get setting expectations, expectations and marketing, but it's really hard for me to get excited for something that's probably not going to be dropped until like a month later or two months later, or three years later. We'll get to that as well with another aircraft. But yeah, you know, show us a few screenshots or whatever, but I I really don't care for developers that you know they they they send the product out to uh to uh their you know their selection of content creators and the content creators showcase the product, and at times, you know, and and this isn't you know this might not be specifically the case for the ERJ, but at times there are certain features that may be present in later revisions that aren't present during the first looks or whatever. And you you run into a little, you know, you run into you know, at times unreal unrealistic expectations. And again, this is purely my opinion. You know, I'll give them this. The product was I did see a lot of the a lot of meaningful improvements with the product, but I think the thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that you know let's let's let's narrow that timeline between first looks and product release. You know, that's that's all I'm saying. That that is all I like. I get it. You guys have people, you know, screaming from the rooftops, wanting, wanting a timeline. And we and and and and consumers, you guys know, you know that it's really difficult to give timelines. So and and I'm guilty of it as well. You know, I'm like, oh no, when's this thing coming out? When's this thing coming out? When's I get it, I get it. But we as consumers have to be mindful, have to be careful of what we ask for because we get these first looks, you know, in freaking December, the darn thing's not dropping to March. Not saying that's what happened with the ERJ, but it but that's happened in the past. Yeah. So but anywho, you know, the product dropped or whatever, solid release. The airplane, and I think it's you know, shout out to the you know, the uh the the uh the the guy who does the FD, I think it's Marco, but thing flies amazingly, you know, and I think a lot of that's you know, a lot of that's the a lot of that is the FD, but then I think a lot of that's contributed to, you know, X Plane, right? Hand flies great, textures, you know, pretty decent, but and I think textures for me is a very subjective topic. So again, you know, don't take my you know word as gospel, but I think the lineage, and you guys seen screenshots of the ERJ lineage. Um, I think the lineage was a little more refined than some of the cabin textures and features I seen. I saw in the uh the E135, E140, 45, and 45XR. I loaded up this Legacy 650 once and it looks solid, but I've been sending this not out of everything else since then. So I'm not sure if that was a situation to where you know his time was like, you know, I really want to, I really want to blow the interior, the water, you know. I mean, yeah, blow the interior the water with with the legacy, which I I get that since you know, corporate aircraft, you know, people didn't spend more time in the in the cabin. Sounds pretty good. The flight management system, they they leveraged heavily on the native Honeywell, maybe Onyx Wii that X-Plane has, which nothing wrong with that. But and you know, if this is Miss Me, you know, the outside looking in perspective. I don't understand why it's so hard to present a accurate rendition of the Honeywell Primise 1000 avionic suite when it was done like 20 years ago. Feel there, feel there, those of you who know those of you old, those old heads out there remembers remembers Phil there's iteration of the uh ERJ 145, and and they had their you know, they had their growing pains as well, but at the end, you had a pretty a pretty solid, you know, rendition, which is, you know, giving it, of course, at the time, you know, the thing was state of the art, but now it's starting to kind of change age. So, you know, it leaves me to wonder, you know, why are we still having this issue? And when when you speak to it from that perspective, and then you bring into perspective the price, that's where the you hear you hear some criticism as it relates to Xcrafts in general. They don't mind charging a premium for a product, but in comparison to and not taking anything away from the modeling, not taking anything away from sounds, not taking anything away from the from the flight dynamics, there's still it's it still leaves a little to be desired. That's all I'm saying. All in all, if you're looking for a solid ERJ family, it's there. But just be forewarned, you you're gonna pay for it. And it's gonna be a pretty close, you know, it does holds and all that. You can do, you know, you can perform you know operations on VATSIM, no problem at all. But just be mindful that what you're looking at that, which what you're looking at there isn't the total rendition of a of the Honeywell FMS. I like even like the flight summary, because there's a few pages missing, like the flight summary pages missing. There's a couple of a couple of other items are missing, which truth be told, hey, does it affect me in getting from point A to point B? No, absolutely not. You know, is it totally sendable without it? Yeah, absolutely. You know, does it take a little bit away from the value of the product, in my opinion? Yes, yes, it does. So all in all, you know, it was a solid release. You know, shout out to like Steve Wilson and uh Marco, they did an amazing job. But, you know, every developer has the right to, you know, place the value and the price on their product. But, you know, don't be surprised when there's a little criticism because there are a lot of products out there that cost the same, if not a little less, and they are darn near one-for-one renditions of the avion's package packages there in the real the real deal. Just saying, just saying. Right? It was it was it was delayed, I forget how long, but you know, I just you know, it I couldn't help but wonder where did that time go.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, if they weren't um if it wasn't utilized to you know pour into a custom FMC that was like for like for the to the real thing, then you know what were they doing?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Exactly. But you know, again, you know, not taking anything you know away from product, those are just my gripes. And and I say that coming from the position coming from the position where uh to where I purchased a family package for the e-jet, I purchased a family package for the the ERJ family, and I pay for it three two times. So damn, you know, yeah. Well, now, you know, that being said, you get there's like an upgrade pricing or whatever, right? Right. But it's still, I think I still spent like man, don't put me on the guys. It's it was like 60 bucks, something like somewhere around there. Um you know, for the family. So I mean, guys, don't be surprised when people jump on the forms and you're like, man, I'm really and I really would love to do this, but wow, it's kind of pricey. Cause it freaking is. It freaking is. Yeah, you know, and it's not even like you know, especially if you didn't have the first family. Yeah, you know, and and you know, and and at the same time, you know, people look for study level. If that's what that's if that's what y'all looking for, that's not it. It's not. I mean, it's it's it's not. Don't shoot the message, but I'm just telling you, you can go pull up, you can go to you know, tons of outlets out there, find you a Honeywell Promise 1000 manual, look it up yourself. There's some you know, it's it's it's it's missing a few key key features for making the one now. Not saying that they're advertising it as you know, authentic, whatever, but yeah, like a licensed product. Yeah, you know, but for the price, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

That's that's uh that's tough, man. I it's listen, I don't have it. I think I had the very first iteration of the e-jets when I was flying to X Plane. It sounds like the the overall, you know, summary or takeaway here is let's understand the timelines that you all put out there from first look to product release. I understand teasers and I understand trailers and I understand some of those other things that you have to do to help market your product and and and uh generate awareness. But I'm I'm with Johnny on this one. I know Charlie, you feel the same way as well. These first looks be killing me, bro. Like you know, giving it to X number of people for them to fly on streams and then not releasing it for another two months, three months doesn't make any sense. And then to your point around the price point, like you know, paying, and we we do it more often than we think, like paying five times for the PMDG 737 if you really look back to the FSX days. And yes, each of those have come with uh incremental price upgrade or reduction for you know for those that have purchased it before, but in reality, you really are paying for the same aircraft over and over again. So that's not too much of a foreign concept. I think the the rub here is the the overall price point when you consider what folks are playing paying for airplanes today, just just feels off. And I know Charlie, you had some concerns around that when you know when we were talking in the chat yesterday too.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

It's just like justify it. Not not at that price point for the two or three that I would want to fly.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

It's just like, man, I'd rather you know throw that money at something else. I mean, dang near halfway to a new throttle or something like that at that price point.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yep. But you know, it is what it is. It sounds like the product overall is is is uh decent to fly.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Nevertheless, it looks great, man. Not gonna lie.

What’s Included And What’s Missing

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah, I'm looking at these screenshots, the renderings. You know, Johnny has been dropping a few as well as he's flown it. It looks it looks fantastic. Some great liveries as well for some of the popular airlines out there that are still flying it. You get some real-world routes, you know, they're reduced compared to where they were years ago, and you know, especially just after COVID. You saw a rapid decline in them, but it's you know, they it's available. It looks like once we do release the live version of this or the re-upload of this, looks like Johnny is sharing some pricing options there. Go ahead and blow this up. There it is. Yeah, so you get the standard advanced as well as full family offerings. The standard starts at$59.95. The is that go premium or co premium?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

What was that? Is that go premium for$69.95?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

$69.95 looks like it comes with the it's the like it includes the legacy. Um you get the full family, obviously, for good gosh,$139.95. Now, granted, we came on here last month and talked about you know some of the price points we used to see for things like FS Labs. I think that single A320 for FSX and P3D back in the day was like$120 for a single plant. But times have evolved. And there's a lot of aircraft, I'll give them that. And it is, it is. Technology advancements have come a long way. You start to set the market and set the consumer expectations around what folks are paying for now, especially over in the 2024 world, Microsoft world in general. Uh, it's it's it's a little tough to swallow, is all.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

But hey, it's an aircraft, it's a cool aircraft. Okay, it's not thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

I mean, it scratches a niche, guys, but I do have some good friends working on another rendition of the ERJ for 2024. And I can't wait. This is there you go. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

With that said, moving on, man. It's uh Johnny will keep us posted on his continued endeavors on the line. I think he's got a line check coming up on it, too.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Yeah, you got about 20 hours in that thing, don't you, Johnny?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Man, they're already they're already due for a C check, bro.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Uh uh, we were gonna move on to the airport developer topic, but we're gonna stick with airlines. Might as well keep it in order uh for flight simulation. The HJet, the Honda Jet, was recently released for 2024. Uh the updated version for those of you that were familiar with it in Microsoft 2020. It does feature a full rebuild, includes career mode, if that is your thing, new physics, and it is a free upgrade for previous owners, though I have yet to work that out myself. I gotta figure out what's going on. I've gone tried that career mode. No, man, I've been I've been slightly interested in it. My thing is, can you pair it? Can you can you utilize it with like V V pilot Vatsim or Scott S say intentions or you have to use the in-game ATC? Yeah, that'd be the only thing.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Which the couple of things that I did, the couple things I did you didn't even use ATC. Really? Yeah, like the private pilot thing, because I went through that and I thought it's cool, you got a mission, go fly it, whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I love the mission aspect of career mode, and I think that's why it drew drew me, especially like and again, I've never done it, but you know, but it looks like some of the trailers and stuff we've been seeing for a very long time, they rule out the red carpet for like the the vision jet and some of this stuff. You get like the full on you know charter life experience or operating the line uh for for. Charter flights, but yeah, I have not personally indulged in it myself. Man, who get a red carpet? Everybody. Everybody. Oh, for real?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Dang, it must be nine.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Oh man. Anyway, don't pay Johnny no mind. You're supposed to be up there flying and forget the red carpet. But technically, if you think about it, you get to walk the red carpet as well because you got to get in the plane, right? That's right.

HJet 2024 Rebuild Overview

SPEAKER_01 22:27

And do they have the little cheesy back drops where you take like a picture of some people? Like oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

He's on a roll today. No, none.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Like the real estate photos you guys seen those were like.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Everybody gets in the photo but you.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Oh my gosh. All right, I'm done. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Anyways, it has been fully revamped for 2024. It is a stunning retail price of it. Again, going back to what we just talked about,$24.99. For those that didn't purchase it previously, the F for real shout out to shout out to the the good old folks over at Flight FX, man. You know, granted, it is a different category of aircraft, but still, you know, there's a recognition and always have been for them for quite some time when they release their products. They are they are at a very fair price point. And a bunch of other stunning, you know, updates to it as well. You know, you guys can go ahead and take a look for yourself. But I think it I think just Charlie has it, or Johnny, I think you downloaded it. I don't know if you flew, but Charlie, you've been in it a few times, including some some some unexpected beta testing for them. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. What were what what's your initial thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Overall, I do think the work they did to it is better than it was in 2020. I can definitely feel the flight modeling seems more refined refined.

unknown 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Engine performance was what I noticed the most. She does seem to climb a little quicker and just overall a little bit, a little bit more what's the word? Sportier, I guess you say. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a Honda Jet. It's slow. So I mean, it just is what it is. But yeah, man, overall I was happy with it. I actually had to buy it because bought the original Honda Jet on my old Windows account. Bro. And now I'm running Steam, so I got guide on that, but at that price point, I was like, man, it's 25 bucks. I can deal with that. You know, it ain't 60, 70 bucks. So right. But cabin looks great, model looks great.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Modeling is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

That's walk around's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

You pull chalks and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yep. Dang. I take that back. I said that a couple times. Pito could be a good thing. I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Uh-uh. I really don't. No, because I went to Hot Springs and I'm like, that is solid. And then like the ERJ came and said, Oh, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Kind of got shadowed. My man quickly pivoted.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Pivot. But so you felt like it did they did add a little bit more kick to it, a little more horsepower to bring it in line with the actual version, but still, you know, it's not gonna be your citation.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yeah, it ain't no X or you know, no global, nothing like that. If you keep her under, man, even like 500 miles to me is like, yeah, that's a straight, yeah. The 250, 300 miles.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Something quick. Yeah, got a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

I think I want to man some of my bricks and strata ninjas on them now. Man, I think I went four colors.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah, I got two coalers.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

I really talked about this when it came out like two years ago. What is the mission parameters for folks purchasing this thing? Like, you know, for its category, how much does that thing run in real life? Like four million or something like that. Four.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

I think it's four or five. A little bit cheaper than the vision.

Performance, Career Mode & Price

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Okay, but it's got two engines, so there's some redundancy there. And I know they buck up against one another when folks are looking to you know figure out what they want to fly. I think the the vision jet argument is you know, single engine, sorry, so less seven. Yeah, single engine, a little less maintenance, you know, easy to fly, especially if you're transitioning from the SR platform. But the Honda Jet sort of argument is well, you know, we don't need a parachute because we've got two engines, and you know, we can fly a little further and take a little more. So I think it really just depends. It's probably six, one and a half dozen, split it down the middle. But yeah, I shoo, man. I'm talking like I could go find and and and go buy either one tomorrow. But I'd be happy with with either one of them. But I think you know it's it's really cool to see, really cool to fly around a sim. Again, I'm going to uh plan a fly it at some point this weekend for sure. But for you folks that are interested, like I mentioned, it is available$24.99 if you've never purchased it before, free for those coming from the 2020 platform from an upgrade standpoint. And again, man, shout out to to Nico and those folks at over at Flight Effects. And I remember having him on a show a couple of years ago, and that's one of the things that he you know really overemphasized on was like providing add-ons and and and and tools for the flight sim community at a affordable price point. Yeah, and they've stuck with that, and it's not just affordable, but it's also very well done, you know, absolutely as simulated as it can be for that price point and and above and beyond, honestly, in a lot of other aspects.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, because don't they have the autoland in the uh the uh they added the autoland in it?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Oh, in the series. Oh, yeah, the series.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah, I hadn't been in that thing in a couple of cool things, yeah. Oh, the safe return.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, it's in there, bro. You press a little button and I you know what's funny?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I was I had not flown the visions yet in 2024 until last weekend. One of them, you know, all them series, they sound the same. Yeah, here we go. Here we go. I was hovering my mouse over on the thing, and it looked like you could click it. And I was like, there's no way this works, but I didn't touch it because I was on with with uh that sim and it was busy and I didn't want to cause case.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Man, you should have get them, get them, make sure they're doing their coach.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

What's his name? Oh, Ron.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Ron Henderson. I wonder if he's still controlling down in Miami.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, man. We got the send something down there in Miami. Going holler.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Oh man, you just brought back memories. Oh, Ron. Um yeah, I definitely gotta go go check that out then. Um what else?

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Because he sounds a lot like Wolf or Brindley. I don't know why. I don't know. Don't strike it for that. You can hear him put their mustache. He sounds like he has a mustache. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

A mustache with a top hat and a Hawaiian shirt.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yes, bro.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, sandals with socks with a boom boom and cargo shorts.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yes, yes, and play if you want to work, bro.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Nothing wrong with the man. I just that's what I picture my man wearing.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Some new balance. Ron, if you say are they tall socks or they ankle socks?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

They gotta be tall, bro. They gotta be like mid-cat. Definitely mid cat. And as soon as he's done, my man hit the backyard and he on the grill, bro.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

And he's gonna be a big thing flipping burgers twice.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

The the chocks. We on we I got aviation in my mind. The tongs twice. Um, if you happen to be out there listening, man, we miss you, man. Love you, Ron. You uh one of the goats of uh Vats and Air Traffic Control.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

That's it, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

OG uh that was Flight FX. We are moving right along, fellas. Look at us on schedule. Let's shift a little bit to real-world aviation, because I got a bone to pick.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Southwest Airlines. Uh, where do I start? Where do I start? So, Southwest. What is that music? No, I thought you brought it up. This is not a happy time. Oh, spitting around. Hey, Southwest. Let me talk to you together. Okay. One, two, I used to grow up now.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Somebody know this man's mind. He's trying to get us cancelled up here.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I don't know where that music came from.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

I thought my man was about to get on the man. I thought it was about to bust a ride.

Real-World Shift At Southwest

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Hey, turn my headphones up. Huh? Oh, man. Oh, yeah. Sorry, guys. Sidetrack there. Listen, I went to book a southwest flight for work a couple weeks ago, uh, traveling to Vegas here next week. And this is a trip that I typically do a couple of times a year for different activities, venues, and whatnot. And I always get the same flight. I go out, I think roughly noon, land at about one something, right out of Ontario, no problem. And for whatever reason, I could not find that flight anymore. So I was trying to book through our company portal. I said, maybe it's just not in there. Went to Southwest directly, still not in there. Then I'm like, all right, maybe I'll look for some additional flights. Continue to look, they completely shrinked the sort of direct flight from Ontario to Vegas. And then I was looking at LAX and just a couple of other neighboring uh airports to understand, you know, was it just an Ontario thing? And no, like most of their flights now, like in the SoCal area, has been dominated by connector uh connections, whether it's Sacramento, San Jose. I don't like who is trying to go from SoCal up to Nor Cal just to go east to Vegas. It's a 35 in-the-air flight. In the air. So I did some additional research, and it sounds like starting in March 2026, Southwest is shifting its traditional point-to-point model. I'm reading here, obviously, towards a hub and spoke strategy. So that essentially means they've reduced 30 routes, including 11 permanent cuts, and they want to focus on connecting flights while adding it says here new short haul routes, feed hubs like who wrote this while adding new short haul routes, where's the edit feed hubs like Denver, Nashville, Baltimore? The change, and I'm I'm trying to edit and read this at the same time, guys. So bear with me. The change means fewer, less direct, and more connection, heavy options for passengers. Listen, man, nobody wants to be in an airport or in the air longer than they have to. Southwest, I don't know why you guys thought this was a good strategy. Yes, people, when they fly you, were used to some level of connections. You guys probably always led in that category when you think about the domestic US airlines. But like this is overboard, in my opinion. And you know, I ended up booking with JSX. So, like, and I know like I'm not the only one out there that that's starting to feel ERJ. Exactly, I'll be on that ERJ. Man, I can't wait for that. Combined with the fact that they've moved to a kind of book your seat sort of model versus free-for-all. That part I don't mind too much. I know that for you uh Southwest, you know, uh patriarchs and matriarchs out there that were sort of a staple for the airline that they held on to for a very long time. Uh, that doesn't bother me all too much just because I'm used to flying with everyone else that does that does that. But you know, when you compile that along with reducing routes, increasing connections, increasing pricing around those connections, it just feels like you're taking more and more away from the consumer. And I just had to come on the mic and say, man, what's going on, bro? I don't know, Johnny. I know you you travel as well a lot for work. Have you seen that that sort of that sort of shift yet with them?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Bro, it's I think this started like late last year. There used to be a there used to be a a run. It ran twice a day, I think, from Lovefield to Minneapolis. Um yeah, because we were booking for expo. Yeah, and like fast forward, I'm booking for expo, and I'm that was crazy. I'm legit thought, man. I'm checking like flight aware. I'm like, man, let me pull like pull flight plane logs, bro. Like to see where this flight went. Couldn't find it. Yeah, could not find it. And so I got to looking, and I'm just like, oh, so this is like system-wide. So yeah, it's it's wasn't like a one-off thing, and they got rid of a lot of just like critical, like like hub to hub routes. Good luck getting to Pittsburgh or something like that. Seriously, Pittsburgh? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Between them and Allegiant, they were the only ones that you could truly get. American from certain hubs as well, bro.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Like, wow. Let me let me give a prime example. So when am I leaving? Uh yeah, because I'm I'm looking at it now. Um, so I leave Dallas at 6 a.m. And I land in I gotta connect in Denver and yep, connect in Denver at 7 a.m. and then leave Denver at 7 50. Heaven forbid you got weather. Heaven forbid. And arrive in many at 10 55.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

It's ridiculous, bro. Ridiculous. I can take American, and and had it not been for my my status, because I pretty much got to flight for you know for free, I would have been better booking America, like straight up. Like you, like Southwest, you guys have literally put yourself in a category that where you guys don't belong. Yep. You got Delta, you got United, you got American, you have all these majors who have like instilled system, a route, route network, a route structure that it's gonna be pretty hard to compete when you don't have a lounge for business travelers. Oh, forget about it. You don't have a lounge, your your perks is nowhere near what you get with Delta, what you get with United, you know, what you get for even American, and they're one of the crappiest out there. And so you're gonna tell me we're gonna we're gonna go away from Herb Keller's vision that made Southwest what the freak it was, and then go with a blueprint that's already been ran, that's continually been ran, and just mix ourselves in with the rits. Like, make it make sense. I'm just trying to figure this out because you're targeting a market that's already, you know, completely saturated with carriers that offer way more perks that than you guys are. I mean, you know, because truth be told, when I go in the lob, you see a lot of families, a lot of like, you know, let's say a high school trip or something, because you know, they get pretty competitive fares, right? And you know, it's it's it just makes you know, cost from a cost perspective, it makes financial sense when you got those big groups to book through to book through Southwest. I don't know what they're gonna do now because not only did the route structure change, but the prices did too.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yep, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, got no, no, no, no, no, you good, because it really did bother me because I'm just like, man, no, if you were to ask me, you know, this time last year, Jump Street Airline, man, Southwest, bro. Like it was that was they were the ghosts, they were the ones that broke the mole and you know, opened up an avenue for your everyday person to travel, you know, and then uh I just I didn't know, and then you still you still got the old raggedy 737s, man. Those things are tired, bro. Tired no one wants to be in no freaking tired spending the same amount of money you would have spent with American, you would have spent with United, you would have spent with Delta, and getting it tired 737-700, man. Get out of here. All right, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Oh man. Dark, dark day, man. Dark, dark day. Dark, dark day. When Mr. Johnny is telling us that Southwest is no longer his favorite airline. Oh man, he just went offline. It was that bad. It's that bad. That bad. If he really drinked, he just so sad he had to leave, man, and go wipe his tears. Like, this is insane. What are we gonna do? Poor old Johnny. Oh, we'll get him back in a second.

Route Cuts, Hubs & Traveler Impact

SPEAKER_01 40:19

There he goes. Broke my internet, man. Oh, we thought you just sad. We thought you were sad. I thought you went to go grab the Kleenex, bro. Couldn't take it, man. Oh, I got I got some right here, bro. No the allergies acting. I've got some right here. I'm good. But yeah, man, it's it's just it's it's it's sad. I mean, I I went back and just kind of looked at the history of Southwest a while back, and it's just, you know, when you, you know, there were there were a lot of first with Southwest. I think that's what made them so unique in in the market. And even when you're at the airport, they just had this the atmosphere, which is, you know, from the flight crew to the, you know, the ramp works to gay agents, they've always had this, you know, just glow about them. Just not seeing that now, you know. I mean, yeah, yeah, people already kind of felt the way, you know, because the open seating or whatever. I there for me there, I was 50-50 on that, so it's like whatever. But then when you go and then you really change the DNA of Southwest. Right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

And again, there was always a subset of connections. Like they they they definitely led in that category. But, you know, if you wanted to avoid that, you could. They were sufficient enough flights, especially something simple like you know, the LA area to Vegas that were direct, man. These guys, it's nothing more than they're not filling these these flights up and they're trying to just you know get as much bang for the buck. And listen, you're you're you're in the business to make money. Man, but those flights were stat, bro. They were stat. I don't think that's actually a good point.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Because every time I was on it on a Southwest flight, bro, and they weren't snapped. Now, especially like shortly after COVID, like American, you know, you may catch some empty flights and you know, but even during COVID, bro, Southwest was stat. So I don't know because they, you know, like for for example, like uh love to Houston, you know, that's a pretty pretty popular business route. So that stays pat. I've taken them from Love to Lubbock or Amarillo, one of those two, and that flight's pat. Midland, that flight's pat. So they go to Midland? Oh, yeah. Oh wow, and and it's a Dash 800 at that.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Wow. Uh-huh. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Dang.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Interesting. But yeah, man, that's you know, we didn't mean to get on a rant, or maybe we did, but we thought we'd share that. I did, man.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Screw that, because that's ridiculous, bro. Ridiculous. I let them, I let them fly itinerary, bro. I'm like, what? Like, I ain't never had that type of connection, bro. And then you have asleep as well. Oh exactly. It's six. So if I don't make it, so so CTP friends, if I don't make the expo, blame Southwest, is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Oh, man. All right. Oh, and and one last thing before I get off that subject. It looks like this, you know, you probably don't get up to New York often, Charlie, but if you were to, I'm sure Southwest would have been your friend. They cut that LaGuordia to Atlanta flight. Or at least it looks like they at least they plan to starting next month.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I know that I never flew that, but man, I know there's a lot of people since I think.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yeah, because Boy Kennedy, you get a fair price, so you're not having to rock with Delta. Exactly. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, and then Delta now, and you get it now, you get solid service with Delta, but you're gonna pay for it. Yeah, you're gonna pay for it.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

So today, Southwest got paid for it. So I know two, three, four flights a day. To LaGordia from Atlanta, at least according to Flight Aware. That apparently is going to be either significantly cut. Again, I don't know who wrote this article, so it's hard to determine. Either significantly cut or cut altogether, which is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Shame on y'all, Southwest.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Shame on sending some planes to the desert. Y'all keep up. Now I'm telling you, bro.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Speaking of sending planes to the desert. Yeah, what about spirit, man, and chopping up. Look at my man, my man Charlie segueing us. Look at this guy.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Spirits is in the news just recently. They announced on Tuesday. Today is the 28th we're recording this episode, by the way. On Tuesday, which was probably what the 24th or something like that, a deal with its creditors to emerge from bankruptcy again later this year. It'll incur a substantial shrinkage in the overall company, which includes fleet personnel, etc. But it's going to allow them to shed more than$5 billion in debt. And then, you know, this is essentially their second time returning from financial brink in the span of less than a year. So they're going to enter into a restructuring deal with estimated reduction of debt and lease obligations from$7.4 billion to$2.1 billion. Their annual fleet costs is going to be reduced another$550 billion down roughly 65% or so. And it does include sort of a rebranding, if you will, to expand their first class and premium seats offering while updating its loyalty programs. Obviously, like everything else, it's going to require U.S. bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York's approval. But they are hopeful with that news, by the way, Spirit's holdings surge more than 21% grab onto your seats to a whopping 40 cents a share.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Might be a time to buy some.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

I was gonna say, man, don't look so that's when that's when go and tell you, bro, some short sales, man, some short sales, bro.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I don't know, man. Even after all that, bro, I don't know, fam.

Spirit’s Bankruptcy Restructuring

SPEAKER_00 46:23

You still you still might listen, man. I am the reason why we're bringing this stuff is because you all know we are huge fans of Spirit Airlines on this show. Uh, not necessarily as consumers, because I think I've flown them once in my life, but we had a hey man, Spirit bro, get you where you need to be, fam. Listen, the problem is everything leading up to where you need to be, bro. And and it's not really their operations, it is the and I've said this before, it is the clientele, it is the people that especially in certain hub cities for them. I'm not gonna list cities because I don't want nobody feeling away, but I'm I avoid them for that particular reason. However, I have said over and over again they have the newest fleet out there of Airbuses. There was a thing that came out the other day in terms of their safety record for all the major U.S. airlines out there, solid compared to everyone else. And, you know, our good buddy Rob used to fly for them uh before he made his way his way to America. So we've always been fan of the airline. I think it's it's cool that we're gonna get to see them have another shot. You know, it's been really sad to see what has has come of the airline right there in our backyard up in the the the old boneyard desert of airplanes. It is littered with Cirrus, Cirrus with uh always got Cirrus on the mind. You see that? Man, that's as he sifts his drink. It is littered with spirit airline uh airliners out there, A320s and 21s, and it's really sad to see. So I hope this works out for them, fellas. I think it'll be good for them as an airline, good for the employees, uh, and good for the industry overall. I think you know, once we have healthy and balanced competition, it is good for the consumers, especially in this industry. You give optionality, you know, you you give a myriad of other things for people to consider instead of locking them into a box to fly with, you know, the the general big four. So, you know, we'll see, we'll see what happens. Johnny, what's your thoughts on it, man? Man, hey he's still mad about Southwest. He can't process this yet.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

It's I've heard the same story, man, with a myriad of camp carriers in the past, and they you know, they dip in and out of bankruptcy, but you know, ultimately they're really gonna have to dig deep and you know find yeah, yeah. Like I said, been there and done that. So, you know, we'll we'll see what happens, but you know, like I said, you know, that that's another carrier there. I mean, just iconic in the industry, you know, for for one reason or another. You know, wish them the best of luck, and you know, we'll we'll see what happens down the road.

unknown 49:04

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

What about you, Charlie? I know they they're in your backyard quite often, man. They send the snot out of those Atlanta roads.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

They send the crap out of them, huh? Kind of on the same sentiment as Johnny. I've never flew them, I've seen them, but so it's kind of hard for me to have an opinion, you know what I mean? I've never had to deal with them because, like I said, it's always Delta, is what's always been around me. Gotcha, gotcha. I hope they get it figured out, man. I'm sure they will. They may overtake Southwest now. Hey, man. Wouldn't that be some crap? Spirit coming out of bankruptcy and Southwest go into it. That'll take.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

I mean, they they tr they ain't trending too hot, but like Southwest bankruptcy would be insane. I they would get bought up so quick before that would have happened. Oh my god. There's no way they would let that happen. No, somebody would jump in with the quick quickness, quickness.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Pay on the spot. Yep. How many billions you want? Here you go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Cool. So that's the Southwest. That's the real that concludes our real world aviation news for today. Before we hit our last topic, looks like our producers just hit us with some additional news in the flight sim world. We are going to talk about the 787 Dreamliner for Microsoft Flight Sim 2024. It is a newly announced project from a developer that not many of us have any real experience with. Sounds like their name is Project Griffin. They plan to take on the 900. Doesn't say anything about the 800 here, but it sounds like which is an interesting approach, but they are going to take on the 900 rendition of the ever-popular Boeing 787 Dreamliner for Microsoft Flight Sim 2024. They say that it's going to have a real tip. So they've got several key pillars, and that's guiding their overall development. So accuracy and modeling and system behavior, high visual fidelity inside and out, which quite frankly is not too hard to do in Microsoft Flight Sim 2024. Like the sim is just natively beautiful. Performance conscious design, please, because some of these developers out there with these heavies are killing our eggs. So please optimize this thing before you release it. Immersive audio. And it's not it's only he's going in the other direction. That's right. Immersive audio and environmental detail. I hope that means they're working with the one and only Boris. Because, like, you know, I really don't know anyone else that's that good at this point.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Man, bro's gonna be in my team, brand. Good grief. Everybody coming after Boris.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Everybody's man. Hey bro, can you do this? Can you do this?

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Can you do this? This is exciting. Support for shared and collaborative flying experiences. According to them, this is not just another aircraft release, it is their vision for what should be the best long haul aircraft flight simulation coming in 2026. Listen, you heard my man Johnny here tell you all at the beginning of the show, top of the hour, that you gotta be careful with these timelines and what you're telling the community because we will hold you to them. Like hats off to you if you can make this work. We are now, as this the show title, you guys will see here, approaching the end of Q1. So, unless you guys have been really hard at work on this thing, cooking all of last year cooking, or you've got this massive development team that we don't know about, it's gonna be hard to see you guys release this thing before the end of the year. But I'm hopeful the Dreamliner is trying to think. Yeah, it is my favorite Boeing aircraft. So I used to fly the heck out of that Quality Wings edition in P3D and was very sad when they were one of the first add-on aircrafts announced for 2020 and then just disappeared off the face of the earth. And then we've had you know slight projects like the horizon sim, and I forgot what's the other Dreamliner, which apparently Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Which one?

SPEAKER_00 53:13

What's the the Dreamliners that are out there today for the sim? It's Coral Horizon Sim. There's something else. There's another one. Coral, something like that. I think you're Coral. There's another one.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

What is that one I got? Like a mod or something? X plan.

New 787-9 Project Griffin Preview

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Yeah, it's a mod that you gotta use, like the dash 10, and then buy for 2024. Bravo Airspace. Sorry. Bravo Bravo Airspace. So I've got them. I've yet to fly them. I've got them all in the sim. I downloaded liveries, I've set up cameras. I just like both of them lack in different areas for me that I just can't get with them. We are so used to some of the level of immersion that we have in the sim today, like GSX passengers and boarding. A lot of these ones either don't have a cabin, or if they do have a cabin, the door doesn't open, so you can't see GSX Pass. So there's a lot of immersive things lacking for it that really excites me about this new version coming from this very new developer. What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Man, I don't know, bro. Again, you know, we we've seen it before. You know, I mean, admirable expectations set. I love the fact that they're very tenacious, apparently. You know, you can see the passion behind the post, but sometimes, unfortunately, you know, and as a developer myself, sometimes we can get a little bit ahead of ourselves. So I'm hoping that's not the case. I am more of a surprise release guy. As weird as that may sound, like, hit me with the boom, here we go. You know, yeah, man. Because midnight release. Man, it's just it's it's it's tough, fellas. It's tough when you once you set that bar.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Yeah, you can't put the toothpaste back on the tube, man.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Oh, bro.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

You open yourself up.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm not uh too much of a long hauler guy, but I could definitely see me see myself sending this one. I mean, just from that initial, at least they didn't give us like a tire screenshot or something stupid. At least it's yeah, like the corner of like a strut or something stupid.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Who was that again? Was that PMDG when they were working on the 777? Yeah, they did a couple years ago. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

I think it was yes, it was that um I mean it looks solid, but again, you know, only time will tell, you know. I guess as the old saying said, as old Leslie Nielsen used to say in the airplane, good luck.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Okay, okay. Charlie, you excited for it? Yeah, man. How many of that bring us up to? Because it is it PMDG doing one or I didn't hear them announce a Dreamliner.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Bluebird, yeah, Bluebird said.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

That's what I'm saying. Like well, no, it'll be interesting because I think it said that there'll be an FS weekend, so that'll be the 21st and 2nd of March. So maybe we'll hear a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

There's some news coming out of that. That'll be awesome because like I said, no one's heard of them really before. So I think it's gonna be exciting to see what they have to offer.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

I did hear one more thing, real quick. I did hear there's a lot of heavy hitters in terms of developers that are gonna team. So I don't know names specifically, but I heard that you know these guys, you know, got some stroke in the industry. So we'll see. Really?

SPEAKER_00 56:38

That that adds some confidence that we're gonna see something solid and see it, see it here by the end of the year. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

For sure. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

As we round out the show, folks, we always want to end with the upcoming Flight Sim Expo. Please ensure that you all are booking your tickets. The this is the again, we're recording on the 28th. We'll have this out probably after the prices go up another ten dollars. They do go up on March 1st. But we've announced it before. There's been articles out there, so uh definitely book your tickets and get your hotels booked. And as you heard, Southwest is doing away with some of these direct flights, and if that's what you were relying on, you may need to make other arrangements. So uh you might be cooked. You might be cooked. Get going. And with that, the Flight Some Community Survey was also recently released. This has been ongoing, guys, if you're not familiar since 2018, and it is a very in-depth, intuitive survey that really reveals a whole wealth of knowledge and information for both developers and add-on makers as well as enthusiasts and and consumers alike. I know for me, I've gathered a lot of detail from this survey, especially add-ons that I didn't really have interest in or I didn't know about. Say intentions was a big one for me, and along with you all's feedback about the product. So I know I learned a lot from it. As always, every year we are going to discuss it. It'll probably be an entire episode. So we'll break it down, we'll discuss it when the results are out. But looking forward to that. And last but very not very not least, that'll make no sense. Last but not least. Yeah, I guess I could say it. It is out there. CTP is very proud to announce that we are once again sponsors at this year's FS Expo. So not only will we be attending, uh, we're also sponsors, and we are looking forward to seeing everyone of you there. So uh we appreciate the support and the the uh the uh the the collaboration and the interactions with us over the years, and you know, we made it uh a point to ensure that all three of us are there this year supporting, getting to see you all face to face, interacting, and I think it'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Absolutely, fellas. It'll be here before you know it, man. Heck, we're rolling.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

It's March. Yell gosh, it's March, man. It's gonna go like I said, get the tickets, man. Both the expo tickets as well as your flight tickets and Bucky Hotel.

unknown 59:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Anything else for the people, folks?

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Nope. Uh just spading your animals and you know. Keep the clarity flowing. Yep, keep the clarity flowing for those of us out there who are sensitive to pollens. And yeah. That's it. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

That's it. All right. At the buzzer. This was your boys from CTP. Mike, Johnny, and Charlie sign out. You guys keep the blue side up. We'll see ya.