FS Expo 2026 Debrief

FS Expo 2026 feels bigger, smoother, and more community-driven than ever, and we come away convinced the people are still the reason the whole hobby works. We break down what nailed it, what felt off, and what we hope changes before Vegas 2027. 
• venue wins: space, concessions, real food, easy flow 
• keynotes and pacing, plus why devs struggle with presenting 
• the “family reunion” effect and why community is the main draw 
• venue selection trade-offs: cost, flights, hotels, walkability, family activities 
• Vegas as a polarizing but practical destination 
• rotating cities vs locking one home base 
• show floor hardware highlights, especially WinWing’s rapid rise 
• entry-level gear talk: Thrustmaster yoke and why console matters 
• force feedback momentum and why it feels like the future 
• software standouts: SayIntentions immersion and EFBX workflow 
• aircraft hype and timelines: A220, A380, bizjets, and the wait for 757 news 
• X-Plane visibility and why hands-on demo stations matter 
• improvements: split hotels confusion, paid parking, Friday floor access vs mixer 
Make sure you guys follow us on all of your podcast platforms. 
If you guys were unfortunately didn’t make expo 2026, definitely make plans to hit FS Expo 2027. 

Website: www.closedtrafficpodcast.com

Facebook: @Closedtrafficpodcast

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Transcript

Welcome And Crew Roll Call

SPEAKER_06 0:02

Live from the laboratory, welcome to the Close Traffic Podcast, an aviation and flight simulation show.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome aboard.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Could not have said it better myself. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Close Profit Podcast, an aviation and flight simulation show. I'm Johnny, and we have a full crew today. Got the got the OSIP TP3 as well as some very special guests and friends of the show. Won't waste any time

Housekeeping And Support Shout Outs

SPEAKER_03 1:05

though. Definitely want to go ahead and get some housekeeping out of the way. First and foremost, make sure you guys follow us on all of your podcast platforms. Wanna give a shout-out and love to all of our Patreon backers out there. Definitely appreciate you guys keeping the lights on and loads to talk about. Gotta unpack FS Expo 2026. So much transpired over those past over the past weekend there. And could not have a better group of people to hash it out. But first and foremost, we got our main man xp72 and moustafa. Guys, say hello to the people.

SPEAKER_06 1:48

How are you guys doing? Good to be here.

SPEAKER_08 1:51

Moose, welcome back, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah, glad to have you. Yep. And our good friend XP 72.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

What is going on, guys? It's almost like I saw you guys like a week ago.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yeah, it's your imagination. Yep. It's all in the alternate dimension. All in the alternate dimension. But yeah, again, guys, nevertheless, welcome aboard. Thanks for thanks for stopping by. Of course, we got our main man, Mike, and Charlie, the producer rooper. Charlie, Mike Seller, to people.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

What's up, people, man?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Hope you guys are well.

SPEAKER_08 2:31

Still reeling from Expo. What a time.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Man, yes, it's it was it was amazing. Like I was I was just telling the guys earlier, like it to me, it felt like a blur. It was just so much going on.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Oh man, and even the past week has just been like gone.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

And it's already been a week, you know. It's like, ah, exactly. You know, everything besides work, anyway. Yeah, we can do without that. Yeah, we do about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

We gotta figure out how to just money just comes in. We don't have to do nothing, we just flight sim all the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

I know. Well, I mean, it does. I mean, there there are ways, Charlie, and just tricks to uh Columbia, Columbia, running some sugar seven. Oh man, running some 727 obs man. Anyway, hey, hey man, we'll talk after the show. Talk after the show, but uh but yeah, X uh FS Expo 2026, our thoughts and feelings on it just to kind of bring just to kind of bring the topic in.

First Impressions Of FS Expo 2026

SPEAKER_03 3:29

To me, I thought overall, I thought the venue was done pretty well, just to kind of get the pros out of the way. The venue was very spacious. I did like the fact that concessions were on deck, yeah. Um including including libations, if that's your thing, you know. You can you know, you can sip on a little something, something while you know you're taking in all the awesomeness. Cheers, my friend. And you know, it to me it felt less like you had to venture off into different places to, you know, a bathroom, whatever. So I thought that was awesome. Again, the the attendee list was I mean, it was second to none. I thought we had an amazing showing uh as far as the as far as the uh the vendors there and the booth operators. It was, I mean, I I I could not have been uh more impressed. As far as the key notes, the keynotes were, you know, in my in my opinion, I think, you know, there's there's some tweaking that could be done as relates to that. But and I get it, guys, it's hard, you know, as a you know, as a software developer, you know, to try to put on a you know an exposition and you know, put together slide decks, put together all, you know, they're I mean they're they're literally like people who do this type of thing for a living. So to try to make that pivot from your normal day-to-day and you know, put together, you know, slideshow that's not only informative, but engaging, and you're not boring the absolute dog crap out of folks. I mean, it's tough. It's I get it, it's tough. So, but overall, you know, I think it's as always, Evan and the Flight Simon Association team did an amazing job, no issues, no rowdiness. And I thought, you know, things are going to get, I was like, man, oh, they're selling beer here. Uh-oh, no, things might get a little rowdy. No, it was like super chill. But guys, what do you think?

Food, Space, And Smooth Logistics

SPEAKER_06 5:47

Which one I got?

SPEAKER_08 5:47

I will I will say moves.

SPEAKER_06 5:50

Yeah, I will say on the food aspect of it, it was really nice having like felt like real food on the uh expo floor this year. Last year in Providence, they had like the it was like 7-Eleven style, you know, like the sealed sandwiches and stuff like that. It was it was very sparse for your lunch options and and just as expensive. So, but you could have, I mean, you know, they had burgers, hot dogs, the you know, the whole gamut of stuff. So you could you felt like you could actually just have lunch there, so to your point, and not have to venture out, which is really nice. The venue obviously was fantastic as far as size goes and ease of access was really nice. So, yeah, I think everything went really seemed to go really well uh from a uh you talk about the uh the keynote stuff from a logistical standpoint, it was Swiss watch precision this year as opposed to last year. Oh, actually, where I had to you know pull people off stage all the time because they couldn't stick to their time. But but yeah, and and that's the thing. I I I heard that criticism by from someone else is like, man, I just I feel like there wasn't any like really good big announcements this year, and yeah, probably not that really. I mean, maybe I think you know, stay intentions got the the nod for like the best of the FS Expo presenters, I think, for Friday. Uh but I mean it you know, any given year you're not necessarily gonna have some big wow factor all the time. So it's a lot of it was people kind of saying, Hey, here's what we're working on, and and this is what's in the pipeline. So yeah, I mean, we didn't have wind control this year with anything new to announce, so they were they were just kind of doing their their thing, keeping their head down, whereas in the past they've been kind of the wow factor of man, that's awesome, and it's for how much? Yeah, so uh yeah, so so yeah, so you don't always gonna have the wow factor, but I think they did a good job of of you know making their case of what's going on. Obviously, I feel like there's there's some presenters that you know could really use a tutorial and how to keep the audience's attention. Yes,

Keynotes And Why Presenting Is Hard

SPEAKER_06 7:54

oh it's tough though. It's it's it is it's tough because you're asking people that their their primary job is not presenting or selling, their their job is developing, and those are very different skills. So you know, if you go into it kind of knowing that, you know, you just kind of got to give them a little bit of grace.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:13

Now, let me let me shout out to you guys, man. As the crew off the expo team that put these things together, you're right. It's like a Swiss watch, like there's nothing I can recall in this show or even prior shows where like, uh-oh, technical difficulties or something doesn't work or Mike. Nobody's complaining. Evan just walk around the floor and check on everybody, like, hey, yeah, good, good, yeah. And yeah, absolutely. And what I heard actually from a birdie, I'm not gonna say who. Some developers like FS Expo as compared to, and it's not a comparison thing as it compared to like an FS Weekend. They're like FS Expo got their stuff together, put it that way. From a from a present from a what do you call that, a presenter point of view, or if you're booking your product on the show or having a floor space, apparently you guys are like the number one in terms of how you run a show, right? How you run the event, the floor space, the food. Even you guys missed it. Even outside downstairs in the in the lobby area, I had a chicken bowl with some quinoa or whatever, which is one of the best things I've tasted in a convention center. Usually it's crappy food. And this is not even the one inside where the floor was, which I went to as well. And they had it arrayed, water, energy drink. If you needed a a Red Bull or a monster drink, they had that, you know. It was pretty cool. But as far as a show, uh show is we have a good show in America in North America. We really do. Now, as far as what the presenters do, as you guys say, it's out of your control. You didn't have to yank anybody off the stage. As a matter of fact, it went like clockwork. I don't know if you guys had a clock, a big clock in their face. Even Nico from from Meridian didn't overstep his time. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 9:58

Yeah, no, I I had to talk, I I talked to him right before backstage, and because I because it was going so well, and we all knew. I mean, he was okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

So a little bit was gonna go wrong, that was where it was gonna go wrong.

SPEAKER_06 10:11

A little inside baseball here, the right leading up to it. So they have Evan ask everyone to kind of submit their presentations ahead of time, and so that way they can have it all dialed in and tested. They gave him a day on uh Thursday, they had a time set aside to go into the hall, play their thing, and make sure it was all working. And and a lot of people took advantage of that. Not everyone took advantage of that. So then those ones are like, okay, well, if you didn't take advantage of that and something goes wrong, that's on you, you know. So Nikki showed up though with his videos and stuff, like on a thumb drive that was encrypted during the break that we had right before. So it was it was the break, and then we had I think it was SoFly. Callum was doing SoFly and then Nikki right after that. And so he's back to on the 15-minute break with this thumb drive that's encrypted that they can't read, and it's off of a laptop that they can't pull from because it's encrypted too. And he's like, So there, so Sean's going up to help him plug in and just do it on the podium. And and Evan's getting frustrated, he's like, he's not allowed back here anymore, he's distracting my guys, and whatever. But I pulled Nikki aside and I said, All right, now don't be the only one that I have to pull off the stage because so far everybody's got him. He goes, No, no, no, no, no. I think we got it. I think I think we're gonna be early. And I was like, Okay, but kudos a minute 30 seconds early.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Shout out to my man Nikki's shout out to him.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

So he did it, he pulled off, and everything, you know, once they plugged in his laptop, all the stuff ran pretty flawlessly. So so it ended up working well. That was the only one that was kind of like everyone was like, Oh crap, it's all gonna come down right here. And and they the crew still pulled it off really well, so yeah. So I do want to uh just aside because I I hear how it's getting mentioned. So I I was the MC, I was the the voice behind the Friday uh expo stuff, but I am not I'm not part of the crew. I'm just uh I they Evan brings me in every year just to do that, and I offer my services to help wherever. You're part of the crew, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Just you are for the fruit.

SPEAKER_06 12:08

Yeah, the the red shirt guys, Evan and Phil. I mean, I I literally fly in, do my thing, and fly out. Like I am uh so anyway, so all kudos to those guys, they they get all the credit, not me. And again, I just I do want to emphasize too, and I say this a couple times people don't realize as as good as this show is and how well it runs and how professional the conference is, people forget that Evan and Phil, the guys that are running this thing, that's not their full-time job. They have other jobs. Like Evan's an airline pilot. I think uh Phil might be in the tech industry somewhere, but yeah, those guys, this is a part-time like like hobby gig for them, and the professionalism that this show has that we see year to year is unprecedented, considering that fact. So, major kudos to those guys.

SPEAKER_08 12:54

Yes, absolutely awesome job to you too, Moose.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

So thank you holding it down, man. It's keeping it taking that along.

SPEAKER_08 13:00

And seeing a show like that is not easy. Uh, you kept the crowd engaged, you kept things moving. Um I know you say you're not part of the crew, but you felt like you were that day. So shout out to you. Well job well done for sure. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Absolutely. Charlie, what about you, man? What was your what was your take? So I know you're kind of you know, you were kind of like us, like between us like messing with our camp camera gear, because we were trying to do a lot, you know, just out there. You know, we also had no, I also had act booth access well. So we were working with the media booths, or we're like, oh, you know, trying to figure out camera gear or whatever. But Charlie, what was your you know, what was your overall impression on?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Man, compared to like Houston, just solid, man. Just like like we were saying, everything just ticked right along. Just the the amount of people just still blows me away. I always keep going back to that, just the sheer volume of people that were at this thing. But the most of your boosts, I mean, they were very well done. The presentations, you know, we we've already touched on that. Most of them were very well done. Overall, man, 10 out of 5. So oh man. I mean, we could go on and on and on, but no, man.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Yeah, and you know, let me just mention it too, since you're talking about positives before we get to the negatives.

Families, Community, And City Vibes

SPEAKER_05 14:27

No, just literally, you know what? Every year, it's the people. You come for the people you stay for the people.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Seriously. That's it. A big family reunion is what that's literally how it feels, man.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

I I see you guys literally once a year, and it's like I just saw you yesterday. It's like, yo, what's going on? You know, you know, other than my gray beard, nothing, nobody else is aging around here. So that's good. But it's it's always the people, you know. A lot of people locally from Minneapolis, from Minnesota showed up. Some people drove. I asked everybody three hours, two hours, an hour, 45 minutes, and one guy's like, Yeah, I'm 15 minutes around the corner. It's like, lucky man. A lot of local Minnesotans showed up, a lot of families showed up.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

A lot of dads and sons and whole family strollers and all that. Man, I love seeing that.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Yeah. I saw a mom with her young son, and I know she has no clue what the hell is going on. Right, you know, I I just looked, I I wanted to go over and say something, but like, you know what, leave it alone. But just to see that, you know, he's young and she's encouraging his his flying habits. I know he's gonna be a violent someday. A lot more families, I would say, than before. And then the wives, somebody mentioned the wives, right? My wife and a bunch of wives decided, hey, you know what? You guys could do your geek stuff. We're gonna go to the Mall of America. And like four or five of them got together and they Ubered over to the mall and spent like how many hours and money?

SPEAKER_04 15:59

You know, more than that was that.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

You know, you see me walking around like worried about, okay, what's my wife doing? She okay, she bored over there, whatever, losing her mind. Nah, she was out, she's out and about. It's like good. Enjoy yourself. So that was good as well. Just to see the wives come and support all us husbands or girlfriends or whatever, support us guys, and we get to do our thing, and they're like, Yeah, okay, I see why you guys are here. You know, I get it now. You know, you're not talking to strangers on the internet every night, you know. These are really important. So I I like that part of it as a positive too, as well.

SPEAKER_08 16:32

Yeah, that's also why a venue is so important, and we'll get to to Vegas a little later on in the show, but like, you know, it it's things for folks to be able to go out and do, right? And folks mean mainly, you know, families that have attended or is coming along, you know, with the quote unquote geeks, but have no interest in seeing that stuff or at least being around it all day long the entire weekend to be able to be in a city or a town where you can actually go and occupy your time helps us sell it better for sure. And it it definitely, you know, it's nice to have the company and and and the enjoyment, but shout out to again the crew for thinking about all of these things as they continue to go into their planning every year.

SPEAKER_06 17:15

Yeah. Well, what's cool too, you bring up the extracurriculars. It's it's not really a thing for me that I care about because I'm going for, like XP said, for the people and for the show. So I don't care. I I I may mention to somebody on I think on Discord in the FSA Discord, I was like, I don't care if it's in Antarctica, I'm gonna go because uh it's it's all this, and Sean, of course, then like within an hour had some AI rendering of an Antarctica convention center with expression 2028 Antarctica. So, but anyway, uh but as but it is, it's important, and and I remember hearing people when they announced Providence when we were in Vegas, and all the murmurs are like, Providence, why on earth would we do it there? Providence, you know, it's gonna be so boring, and it was all this negative, blah blah blah, all the way up until we got to expo, and then everyone's there going, This is really nice, man. What the heck? And so I just I come away from that every time they announce a venue we've never been to before. You always have a whole bunch of people going, Why would they pick that? And then you get there, you're like, Oh, oh, I see why. And it's like, yes, they've gone to these venues like a year ago and scoped it out and went, Yeah, this will work really well. We could do this and this, and it's like it's not just picked out of a hat, like I think we've done enough of these now. It's time to start just like having a little faith that Evan and Phil kind of like know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Let them cook. Um, but yeah, let them cook.

SPEAKER_06 18:45

Let them cook. Exactly. So, but anyway, but it is it's always funny to watch that transformation of all the people, all the naysayers going, it's in St. Paul. I don't want to go to St. Paul, and then all the people there going, Man, we should go to St. Paul every year. Yeah, so funny to watch that happen.

SPEAKER_08 19:03

The weather was great too, man. It was smell pressure. Speaking of logistics, but man, that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Great scooter weather, wasn't it? Scooter CTP, yeah. Yeah, weather sponsorship. True that for sure. Yeah, and that's the you know, and that's and kind of going back to the wires for a minute. And that was I know I remember Houston, I think Charlie's wife and my wife, they got together. I don't know where the hell they went. Like they they got together and they were just gone. And to me, I think that's you know, also important as well, you know, when it especially for you know those of us, you know, where you know that spouse is, you know, they if it's somewhere you know interesting or decent, you know, they'll go. Um but I think kids as well, you know, for sure. You know, sometimes it's easier to sell something to your family when it's for example, like Houston, and it was at an area where you know you had a the aviation museum nearby, things of that nature. So in a way, I kind of I kind of get it, but also to Moose's point, I think that you know, having a little faith that these guys have done their due diligence, you know, they've scoped out these sites. The venues are legit. I have not gone to one venue thus far, and it's just like, oh my gosh, this looks like a crackhouse.

SPEAKER_06 20:42

So the karaoke place we went to in Providence did look like a crackhouse, but that wasn't a good one. But it's karaoke, though.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

So there's yeah, that was a whole different thing. Yeah, a whole different thing. Yeah, yeah, the more the merrier there. So uh, but no, but no, I mean it was, you know, again, as far as the venue, and shout out to Evan and the team for just kind of putting things together and making it happen. I already know babies is gonna be legit. Speaking of legit, our main man Leo Sticks is in the house. Leo, what's going on, my friend?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Salute, salute, salute. What's going on, fellas? What's on?

SPEAKER_03 21:16

I'm not a whole lot. Yeah, no, not a whole lot, man. We're just kind of bringing it in and uh just kind of discussing our our first impressions on the expo, how things, you know, kind of going hitting on the pros first, uh as far as you know, the venue, the overall exhibits, things of that nature. You got any thoughts on that, my man?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah, I mean, I think I think the the location was was nice. I like the convention center. It didn't seem too big, it seemed like it was the right size for for our venue or for our niche here. Location could have been better, but I mean, you know, we we find our our own fun anywhere we go. So it turned out fun just like any other expo, man. I was thoroughly impressed. You didn't like Minneapolis?

SPEAKER_08 22:08

Or you just mean in the context of like Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I like I like Minneapolis. I mean, again, when you make your own fun, it's you know I hear you, yeah. But no, I I really enjoyed it. You know, it my issue was that it just wasn't a lot to do, right? It was the same old spots. It was like I what I kept hearing was Zamboni, Zamboni, Zambonies.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

I still miss the wings, dang it.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Shut Zambonies down.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

No, we didn't because I didn't get any wings, man. Like that's true.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I mean, other than that, I'm getting the few restaurants you know that were in the in walking distance were pretty good. That spot we went to XP the first night. Uh what was that? I forget what it was what it was called.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Oh, uh around the corner. That was nice. Yeah, great food, as a matter of fact.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, that was a nice spot. Yeah, and then bell, what is it? Belvidos was a pretty good spot.

SPEAKER_08 23:02

Oh, that was really good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, yeah. Other than that, I mean, as far as the location, it just didn't have much, you know, if you wanted to get out, walk, and explore. I mean, there was stuff there, but it wasn't like Providence and a certain like Providence, they had a whole strip. I mean, we went to that too, XP.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:22

I said I missed that one, man. Providence really had was was uh yeah, it had all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

Oh, yeah, they shut down a whole road and just restaurants after restaurants and wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

It was like Nashville kind of cars, you had restaurants, you had you know, people out, families, you had the partiers, you had the families, you had, you know, a little bit of everything in Providence on that one strip called Federal Hill. So I I was hoping to find something kind of like that in Minneapolis, it just it didn't exist. I think what surprised me was that I was expecting that we got in on a Thursday. I'm like, okay, City's pretty dead. It's a Thursday, everybody's working. Then when Friday came, it was still dead. I was just like, okay. Saturday came was the most people that I seen because they had, I think, two graduations there. That's right. Yeah, on Saturday. That was the most people I seen all week, all weekend.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

So yeah, to be specific, I think we're specific. We were in St. Paul, St.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Paul, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

Many is basically downtown St. Paul, as Leo said, is just dead. It's literally, yeah, it's not a providence by any means. And maybe if we're going downtown Minneapolis, but it was just too far away for us to go.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah, that's for you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Well, we I I'll say this. We went downtown Minneapolis and we found the fun.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

It's some spots there. See, I used to work up there, so yeah, bro. We weren't St. Paul, that's the that's the burbs, man. You yeah, yeah, but yeah, many, yeah. You know, back in the day, and all right, yeah, anyway. Um that's another way next topic.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

This,

Picking Venues: Cost Vs Fun

SPEAKER_05 25:07

I mean, I know you're gonna get to this, but this is the balance for Expo. Where do you keep it? Yep, you want fun and everything, it's gonna cost you some money. That's the thing, that's true. Both airfare and accommodations. Or we can dial back on that, but then you you end up in the boonies with nobody around. It's like, where's the where's the in-between line? I don't know. Vegas?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, but that's it's tough for sure. I I think I think that you know you you have to balance that. You have to, you know, make it so that every there's a little bit for everybody. Because think about it like this for some people, this may be the only vacation that they get. That's right.

SPEAKER_08 25:47

You know, between this or yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah, and if you just go in and you're like, oh, it's the expo. Well, well, if you want families to come, you have to have a little bit of everything for everyone. Now, Vegas is nice, but Vegas is also a bit adult y. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, you could bring the kids, but there ain't no Disney in Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah, you know, so that's a good point.

SPEAKER_08 26:12

I mean, we're here here, so we might as well stay on this subject. Um like XP, you were just mentioning how great it was to see families and you know the the show continuing to accelerate the coming together of families to participate in this hobby of ours and to help you know sort of drive the the the innovation and the uh sort of uh mindset around the youth that are looking to explore aviation. Do you think going back to Vegas is going to make us take a step back in that regard? Because Leo brings up a good point.

SPEAKER_05 26:48

Yeah. I think Vegas was all the choice was made on cost. I really think so. Based on the evidence, and I think it was based on like, you know what, of all the places we have gone to, they have the infrastructure and it's cheaper than everybody else right now. Because Vegas has a low right now in terms of tourism or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Vegas isn't a downturn.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Isn't what it is. So they're probably giving away this place at a rock bottom price, which and then you know, he's sweetened to deal with you can get transportation from the airport direct to the hotel, right? Okay, Vegas trip is there, you can walk around. As Leo's saying, it's not really family oriented unless you're telling your family to rent a car, drive out of town to the Hoover Dam and the Grand Canyon and do some of that stuff, right? Yeah, you know, so but yeah, I think it was made out of money. My question is though, is like who has the perfect spot that they think expo should be at where it balances versus family and cost and location. I mean, I'm I've been thinking about like where would be the spot because we've been saying like should should expo be in one spot every year to make it easier. Where would that one spot be? You know, I'm not sure if I have the answer. I don't know. Yeah, what's uh what do you think there is a perfect spot?

SPEAKER_08 28:01

I don't think there is, but like I was surprised. I thought honestly, we were going back to Orlando. I don't think it fits the bill a little more than Vegas would. Orlando's probably a little bit more costly and costly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

I was talking about this.

SPEAKER_06 28:16

And I and that's probably why we didn't go there. It would be my guest. I'd be like, I don't have the inside inside of this, but yeah, the because that's the big strike to what XP was saying. You're looking if you're looking for a spot, you're looking for a lot of uh good transportation in. It's got to have international transportation, it's got to have the local transportation stuff. So you're talking about airports and stuff that can do both. You're talking about hotels and stuff with good convention space, but not so big that it's drowned those out. Yeah, it feels because we're in that expos in that tough spot where we're we are too big for a lot of venues, but we are way too small for most venues, yeah, like an actual convention hall. So actual convention centers, yeah, we're too small for that. So we're we're in this really kind of nasty middle ground that makes it hard, and then ultimately is the is the cost factor of all of that too, is is what so a place like Orlando, I think, ticks two of those boxes, but it's that cost factor because it's got Disney, it's got universal, all that stuff is there and drives so much tour that they can jack up those hotels. You're gonna pay for it, yeah, and you're gonna pay through the nose.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So but I think that if we do Orlando, I can almost guarantee you that if you're bringing your family, the cheapest thing you're gonna do is Expo.

SPEAKER_06 29:37

Oh, yeah, yeah, the cheapest thing you're gonna do is that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I I know a lot of people have shot in Orlando, but yeah, it's you're gonna I mean, to do any of the stuff there, you know, you talk about Disney. I was looking at a thing recently, they're talking about the Disney prices now. It's it's insane. Like they're pricing so many people out of Disney World now, it's crazy. So yeah, you you go to places that are off the map and you'll get a really good deal, but they're off the map for a reason. Yeah, so you you you've gotta you know balance that with okay, is there enough to do? And I think Evan and Phil do a good job of finding other, you know, creative little things that that they can they can add in there. So the there and there was stuff for St. Paul, there was some tours, there was the the not that I would ever do this, but the the 5k run that just doesn't sound fun to me at all. Oh gosh. I ain't trying to have a scoring kilometer I come to expo not to die, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

I'm good. Let me do that, I'm good, bro.

SPEAKER_06 30:40

There was stuff, and then at the same time, I think too, you know, someone made mention of you know, the the the Minnesota Wild didn't make the the championship or the playoff or whatever it was that could have been being hosted there that weekend, and you just think, man, it's a darn good thing because can you imagine the crowds and trying to go to some of these places that we were going to? And get I mean, it would have been nuts. So so to Leo's point, yeah, it can feel kind of dead, but the advantage is that it's it's open for us, it's an open place for us then. So yeah, it's a mixed bag because different people, you know, like different things, and so yeah, yeah, it's it's a hard, it's a hard sell. I'm I'm glad I'm not the one that has to make the decision, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah, no, I mean I can I can imagine those discussions like you know, like what does it look like to have that you know perfect venue? Because it's like you want to you want to attract families, but you know, if you want to attract families, there has to be you know other activities there, but you know, when you have those activities there, that's gonna bring additional tourism, which these you know, these locales understand this, you know, such as Florida, and you know, the prices are going to go up, but then at the same time, you can't have it in you know Prentice, Mississippi. Or you know, I'm saying like you just mean you can't hate to throw names out there, but I mean it's just I'm I'm being dead serious. It's no, it's you know, it's just it's really tough, and you know, I'm guilty of it as well because you know, you hear some names, you're just like, wait a minute, what's out there, you know? And I ain't gonna lie, you know, when they said St. Paul, like me, you know, venturing up there quite often, like I knew I was up there. I was like, I see why, you know, but you know, even my because my family, they've all been up there before for like work trips and stuff like that when I come with me. And but you know, when I when my wife found out, she was like, No, I'm good, you know, and that's this is no slight against you know, and I guess a lot of that has to do with every time I've gone up there, it's been like it's winter. Oh gosh, terrible, yeah. Brutal, you know, so yeah, yeah, it's terrible. So, you know, that plays a factor as well. But you know, uh, Evan, Evan and Crew, they definitely have a challenging job to do year, let's you know, annually trying to figure that out, and you know, to y'all's point, I mean, should it be the same place every year?

Should Expo Stay In One Place

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Like, let's say that's what I was gonna say. What's everybody's opinion on that? Lock in a deal, long-term deal.

SPEAKER_08 33:03

I think every couple of years you alternate. I think if it's gonna be the same place, I think it's no more than two to three years, and then you shift. I think having it in the same place helps it gets monotonous. Yeah, it gets monotonous, but I think you know there's some leverage in having it in the same place because you get to lock in rates with suppliers and and the venues and whatnot. Listen, like I I don't do this for work, I attendees, but I know what goes on behind the scenes. Our industry and what we do is not unique to the feeling and the challenges of how do I cater to everybody. Uh if I share with you some of the comments we get from folks coming to some of the places that we have to go to, you guys would be like, Yep, this is very similar. So, some of the things we do is you know, we'll have it in the same geographical location for a couple of years and then we'll shift. So it's again, it's it's a hard challenge to solve for everyone, but I wouldn't mind it being in the same place for two years or so.

SPEAKER_06 33:56

Yeah, I would agree with that. Uh, and to the question that just popped up on the screen, the likelihood of it coming to Fresno is zero. And I want to keep it that way. I I actually like going somewhere, I don't want it to be in my hometown. That's kind of what I was gonna say. It's kind of nice going to somewhere you hadn't been before. It is that that's nice too, and I get the advantages of staying in one place for, like you said, locking down rates. There's also, and Evan brought up a really good point at the end of Expo when he said there's a lot of people that go, they we know it shifts every year and it moves to different parts of the country, and so I'm not gonna go this year because it's on the other side of the country for me this year, and I know there's a good likelihood that next year it might be closer, and so I can sell it. And he said he made a good point. He said that hurts because then there's a there's a whole demographic graphic of people any given year around the country that are gonna choose not to go because they're banking on it coming closer to them the following year. If you know that hey, it's not moving, it's gonna be there. If you want to go to expo, you got to go to expo. There's something to that, and so it may force people to to make that consideration a little differently. That's a good point. It also, you know, on the same token, it might just tell a whole bunch of people in one part of the country, well, expo's out of reach for me permanently, then, because I just can't make it that far. So there's that too. And by moving it around, like you said, there was a whole bunch of people from the local area that came for the first time. Maybe they will travel to Vegas because they've experienced it and go, Man, this is really cool. And they wouldn't have gone and tried it if it wasn't in their hometown to begin with. You know, there's a lot of X factors, and so who knows? I personally I side with Evan more often than not in that I love the fact that it moves around, I love checking out different places, even if it's a place we've gone before, like we've been to Vegas, this will be the third time now with Expo. It's you know, it feels fresh because it's been a few years since we've been to Vegas. Um, and so and it's nice for me because I can try, but the um selfishly, but it's at the same time I get from a from a vendor side logistically, yeah, you gotta reinvent the wheel every time, depending on where it is, you gotta make those calculations. You don't, you know, so you know, it is what it is. I I don't think there's an easy answer either way, and I think I think Expos in a un is a unique place with the size we are, that it's worth having the conversation, but it's made trickier because of how big we are and yet how small we are.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah, let me let me make it put a pen in that go ahead, XP. I just want to put a pen in what some some things you said, uh Mustafa.

SPEAKER_05 36:31

I was gonna make the case for Vegas, but go ahead, Leo. Because I'm gonna tell you why Vegas is right.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Well, I do believe Vegas is right, I just don't believe that it needs to be every year. We caught Evan at the end on the last day coming out of the venue, and let's just say I I know a handful of guys from my side that's like, oh man, I don't know if I'm going next year. It's back in Vegas, it's back in Vegas. Now imagine if it's in Vegas and then it's in Vegas again, and then it's in Vegas again. There's a whole niche of people that's now not going because again twice already. Yeah, twice already, and now you're you're you're saying that you know you're gonna have it here every year. In my opinion, the only benefit that that would really you know generate would be if the developers and and the the vendors are able to store their stuff there, like stuff that we can physically buy, right? Remember, they gave us the argument that, oh no, it's just too much logistics-wise to be able to, you know, not only ship our stuff here, but store it and things like that. We can't have you know a lot of new product for you guys to buy right here at Expo. We have no place to store it. So, yeah, having it in a single place allows them to be able to ship product here, have stuff there at Expo to buy that people can can physically buy and leave with something. I agree there, but to have it in the same place, I think you lose a lot more than you than you gain because because of the veterans that's that's been and gone every year. You're like, man, Vegas again. Somebody just said it's it's the third time.

SPEAKER_05 38:11

It is 2018, uh, then when we went in 2011, 24 and now. But I'm gonna make the case with Vegas based on what I've heard, I've I've been here, not for Vegas to be like the spot every year, because my wife likes to travel and see new places and explore. Right? I'll be on the floor the entire weekend and not go outside. And she's like, I want to go see the place. I already planned this show, this thing, this state, and you have this thing at five o'clock. I was like, How'd you know all this stuff? Oh, I looked it up, right? She loves that stuff. However, here's what I've been hearing about Vegas for a lot of international people, a lot of the vendors. The flights are cheaper to Vegas than anywhere else in America.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

I can see that.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Apparently, from Canada, it's cheaper to fly to Vegas than to fly to New York. Yeah, right? And I just checked all my direct flights from Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami, and I didn't realize there were so many direct flights from Fort Lauderdale, Miami to Vegas from three different airlines. Frontier, Jet Blue, and Southwest goes direct from both.

SPEAKER_08 39:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

And so you know there's competition when there's that many people doing it, and it gives you flexibility and time. Also, internationally, if you're coming from like uh Australia and all those places, it's a shorter trip for you. You land in LA or you land in Vegas and you're good. Europe have long hauls like from England, there's long hauls straight from from from Las Vegas International over there. So that's one side of it. Like people like the traveling for those people. I didn't know that. It's like wow. And that's a big case for them, you know. For sure. The the venue knows how to handle crowds, it's built for that stuff. That's what Vegas is. Um the only drawback, as Leo was saying, is for families. It's like, yeah, you know, so maybe Vegas every other year and then find two two other locations, you know. I mean, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and you can't find nothing else. At least Vegas is there, you know, something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

But if you wouldn't mind if they if if they're gonna do the same location, like XP said, get maybe one or even two other locations, and that and that's what we stick with. We do Vegas, Vegas, we'll do Orlando, Orlando, we'll do, you know, let's go up north Providence or or or somewhere else. Back to back.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

Any other repeat spots that we've done before that you would go back to?

SPEAKER_06 40:37

Oh, I'd go back to Providence, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

I go back to Providence, Houston. Houston, yeah, I go back to the house.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

I'm not going back to Houston, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:46

Yeah, but so my caveat to Houston. Yeah, it wasn't so so Houston, it wasn't the weather. So I would love to go back to Houston if we could be back in the in the museum, but we don't we don't fit in. I was gonna say, I think we took it the very next year. We were too big for it. So if we went back to the mistake, it wouldn't be there, and that's what made Houston amazing. The weather was terrible, the roads were awful. The uh, but so so a lot of the other stuff was was not great, but the venue made it like, oh, this is amazing!

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Like one of the things, and there's a corsair sitting out there, and then you got like wing control right behind it. Like, that's cool, right?

SPEAKER_06 41:22

Yeah, the only other way to talk that would be to like to get the venue in the Smithsonian or something, which that's never gonna happen. But the uh that would be awesome. That would be really cool. What's interesting though, real quick, I want to I want to dovetail on what uh XP was saying because yeah, Vegas is uh makes so much logistical sense, but it's it's funny when you talk to people from for that go to expo, it is also the most polarizing destination. You have people that are like, I just wanted to be in Vegas every year, Vegas, baby, Vegas, baby. And at the same time, you've got a whole other crowd that's like anywhere but Vegas. I will go to all the expos as long as it's not Vegas, and it's like, okay, what is the dislike? It's uh it'd be one thing if it was just like, hey, a lot of people just like overwhelmingly kind of like Vegas or overwhelmingly don't, but it is you either love it or you hate it, and it is so so that's my my one warning with putting the expo in Vegas is because for whatever reason it is very polarizing, love it or hate it, like like no other place that we go to is, and so yeah, so it just it is what it is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:30

Very few times would you get uh answer, especially in LA. It's like, oh, I love Vegas, oh I hate it. I hate it. That's generally what you get.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Them suckers took me for two stacks.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

See, those are typically the naysayers, right? You know, probably they would have got a lot, they lost all their money.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

My wife loved that mall. Whatever that mall is, that indoor mall underneath somewhere, just fully air conditioned. All the stores are in there, all the name brand stores. Oh, yeah, indoor mansion. Yeah, it's in one of those hotel basements or something. I don't know. It's all indoor, but it's really nice, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

I forgot the name of that one. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

I yeah, we drove there, uh, valet the car, and we went in and she was all happy. Her lights lit, her eyes lit up. It's like, oh boy, here we go. Here we go. Because it had all the stores in them all, right?

SPEAKER_08 43:25

So it's either the one in Caesars or I think it's in Caesars.

SPEAKER_05 43:30

No, it's in Caesars. Oh, the Caesars. Oh, you know what? You're right.

SPEAKER_08 43:33

It is that the one with the blue sky, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

That's the one Caesars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

So wow. In

Booth Standouts And WinWing’s Surge

SPEAKER_03 43:41

terms of like going back to this year's expo, in terms of like booths and exhibits, what really blew y'all away? I mean, there are a lot of really good booths there. I mean, they they did an amazing job with, and all of them did with their booths, but what really stood out to y'all?

SPEAKER_05 44:00

I mean, other than Wing Wing. I was gonna say Win Wing.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

In fact, if you could see their booth, that was the problem with them. You could never see anything. They had so many people. Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_06 44:14

The Grinnelli designs, though, with the blimp, the all the thing. I mean, they really I mean, you talk about a design for a booth, they really went all out. It was it was really and they had some stuff in the cases, like uh a bunch of uh memorabilia stuff from fighters and stuff. It was it was really well done, really well done.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

They did well did y'all know what the smoke was for?

SPEAKER_06 44:39

Yeah, I found out later on. It was if you if you uh crashed in or crashed, yep. And then and then I heard if you got like a kill or someone you shot someone down, it would do that too.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

I think it happened a lot, yeah. I did. Yeah, it was pretty sticker of coaster. That's a sticker, Kevin. I mean, I saw yeah, isn't it like an arm patch? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a it's a shirt patch. Oh nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:03

Wind control law. We can go back to that real quick. I know we said it when we interviewed both of you guys live on the expo floor, but like two years ago, they were more or less just on the scene, or maybe three years ago, not too sure. And I don't even remember if they they had a booth every time they came, but it certainly wasn't like that. They went from you know, hmm, what's over there, who's over there, piquing people's interest as they enter the hardware game, to you can't even get in the crowd to see the hardware that was laid out. It's it's crazy. I don't know that we've ever, and again, it's not like expo's been around for decades, but I don't know that we've ever seen a uh a vendor or an exhibitor go from where they were intro on the scene to probably one of the most popular folks on the floor in just the span of a few years, with the amount of different hardware opera as well.

SPEAKER_06 45:58

That's what blew me away. It's just you look at their table, it's like it's not just they have a bunch of their joysticks out, they're all different. They're all different. Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, yeah, and it's not vaporware, you know.

SPEAKER_08 46:10

Right. Listen, I'm not gonna call any vendors out, man. If I had a few drinks, maybe, but a lot of those people come and say, Yeah, you're gonna see this and have that, and it'll be in a couple of months, and three expos later you can't get it still. These guys, man, they tell you something's coming out, you can get it ordered, you know, roughly within a couple of months of their their initial analysis.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yeah, pre-order.

SPEAKER_08 46:31

You you it's tangible, you get it in your hands, you can feel it, you could you could you could play with it. It actually works. It's not vaporware, you know. They actually there's uh there's you know, they back what they say, and I think that's really cool.

SPEAKER_05 46:43

That's the word. I'm I'm advising anybody who's making hardware, find somebody who's got buku money to back you and go for it. Somebody's backing wind control for them to be able to give you these prices. But it's not a window, but it's the Walmart model where we got it for cheaper, but we're gonna sell a million of the cheap ones versus a hundred of the expensive ones. That's what it is. Quality versus price, and they're not the best quality. I'll tell you that right now. I have some other people that have better quality, but for what you get, I'm like, I'll ignore that. I'm good. Yeah, you know, yeah, and that's why they they've taken over, and they're gonna they're gonna be in this position until the day when they're forced to raise their prices for one reason or the other.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

For one reason or another, exactly, exactly. No, XP, you're you're you're spot on. Even even back before they made that transition into the uh civilian sims. I mean, I still have my Viper EX somewhere amongst all this because I've acquired more hardware thanks. How long ago did you get that? That's been a good one, Johnny. It's been oh oh oh oh oh yeah, me, you got talk. Um it's been a year, Mike. It's been a year, man. And it's still or maybe a little more, but still feels just as good as I mean, that all metal design, and the price wasn't bad compared in comparison from what you would see from other offerings at the time. The price price wasn't horrible, but to XP's point, there has to be some concessions somewhere, so it might be uh a lower quality switch or this or that. You have to make those maneuvers in in order to keep that price point. That in my mind is what keeps wind control in the game, is because you know, they have these offerings that at one point in time were only you know available to select few who were even you know, either retired and just had the extra cash or you know, whatever their situation may be, you know, to you know, it's just it's available for the available for the masses, like you can get you know, you're you can get 737 out for less than a thousand bucks. Who was doing that? Five five exactly. Yeah, nobody, nobody.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Well, the thing is, so to your point, Johnny, I'll take it all the way back before wind control even entered the civilian market, too. I was familiar with them, you know, through their DCS hotests and stuff like this. Those things were made, you know, with the iron fists, like they I still have my Orion 2 on aluminum throttle. And so, you know, I kind of said to myself, well, yes, it wasn't super expensive, but if they was to sell some of this stuff at those prices, they would sell less of them, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

If they ever came over to the civilian market to the Microsoft Flight Sim and X plane market, they would make a killing. I remember the first McDo or the first FMC unit I saw for our sim. I can't remember the manufacturer who made it, but it was like $600. It was like Cocktail Master made it.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

It was six hundred dollars. Yeah, it was like six hundred bucks for for something that that does six hundred dollars for this thing right here. Six hundred dollars. Yep. Okay, six hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_08 50:14

That was six hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_05 50:16

You could get a whole setup now for less than six hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_06 50:20

Yeah, also though, that's six hundred dollars like five, six years ago. That's not six hundred dollars. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, you translate that into now money, that's like a thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_08 50:31

That's my point.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

You know, win win goes with a cheaper, a cheaper method, but you know, in my idea, if you take care of your stuff, you just won't have issues with it. I haven't had any quality control issues with none of my stuff. I mean, I 3D printed here. Look at this. I three arch back, man. Take care of it, and then I drop it. But I 3D printed covers for mines, you know. This is my proposal. Ah, well, look at that. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Hey, you need to send me them files, bro.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Hey, so Leo take care of this stuff. Oh, Leo sticks the booth expo win. That's a good damn idea.

SPEAKER_06 51:11

Okay, but I mean Vegas, baby. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

I I I just think I just think you can't beat them, and it's gonna take somebody to come in and either, you know, there's nobody that's gonna sell cheaper than Win Wing. No, you can't, yeah. You know, when I first saw them, when they had them on display, I remember people saying, when was it? Was it Houston they first had these FMCs on display? It was either Houston or Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

It was Houston. Houston is when they kind of started saying, Hey, we're here, boys.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Yeah, but I remember pressing the buttons, and somebody next to me was like, Oh, those rubbery buttons are gonna break in less than a year. And man, I've had all of mine for more than a year, and they're still going strong, dude.

SPEAKER_06 51:55

Yeah, if you give it to your toddler to mash on all day, sure. But right don't be an idiot with your hardware. I mean, there's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, I I just don't think they're I don't think they're they're beatable. I mean, they're absolutely got everybody else in the corner as far as cost and and as far as what you get for the cost. And I mean, the quality, like XP said, it's not it's not aluminum, but it also is not a thousand dollar unit either. Right.

SPEAKER_06 52:20

And it forces the other guys to try to be, I mean, they might be able to match it, but they need to they need to find a reason to justify, hey, why is this more expensive than what I can get for Win Wing and is it worth it? And so, yeah, they're either gonna bring their prices down or they're gonna make their stuff really immaculate to show, hey, it's worth spending an extra couple hundred bucks more to do it. And so, I mean, competition's good. That's that they've they've helped kind of sink the market down a little bit and bring all the hardware a little bit more into an affordable range for people. Obviously, any manufacturer has constraints, they have to be able to make a profit and they have to deal with what they've got to work with. So there's you know, there's give and takes all everywhere, but you can't just say, I'm gonna charge you uh $1,500 for this now because people aren't gonna buy it. They're gonna go, oh, I can get a win-wing one for $120. I'll get five of them for that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 53:12

I'm glad you said that because uh what's your name? They've actually lowered their prices on all their Airbus stuff coming out. What do they call the Wing Flex? Wing Flex.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:25

Wing flex prices are coming down, and they're doing the FMC, they're doing the gear panel, they're doing the uh EFIS and the FCU. And I'm looking at the prices going, oh, this is only 120 bucks. What happened to your $400 price you were charging six months ago? Where did that go? Wing control. Well, it's the wind control, exactly. But that's the thing, you know, they're forced to make it cheaper. Maybe not as cheap, but it's cheaper, right? Right now, which is good.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Well, they get the parts, they're in the same daggone location. They're getting the parts for the same damn uh supplier.

SPEAKER_05 54:02

So you know, it's all shipped from Shenzhen, China, bro. Trust me. Yeah, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

It's just hard for me to believe as much RD is win-wing or wind control is done at this point. It's gonna be hard to overtake them guys. I agree because they've already got it, they've already got it in the vault, they already know how to do it.

SPEAKER_08 54:22

Not to mention consumer loyalty, because like oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Only thing they need to do is fix their updating process when these but they're coming out with a new a new app I hear.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Yeah, oh really, yeah, it's supposed to be out soon, something like a month.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Yeah, I think it's coming out with their four their FFB stuff, is what I think is a hold up on that.

SPEAKER_08 54:42

Because man, we are week into the release of the Macs, and none of my panels still work.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

Yeah, yeah. And see, that and to your point, that's that's the stuff now, it does all of them work yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 54:52

No, all of them work. Here's the caveat only on the 178 passenger configuration one stage.

SPEAKER_07 55:02

180, 178.

SPEAKER_05 55:04

It took me a minute to figure it out.

SPEAKER_06 55:05

Somebody on the back of the phone. Actually, why is that same reason why it didn't work on the PMDG 700 and only works on the yeah, no, you're right. But that's my point, though. Those it's those kind of things, you to your point. Yeah, Win Wings is juggernaut, but it's stuff like that that will people go. Oh, for an extra 50 bucks, I can get the MozA one and it just works with everything. I'll do that. So it's that kind of stuff that can dethrone. Yeah, right now they're the juggernaut that no one can beat, but they've got to get their house in order with regard to some of the other stuff, the stuff that NASDAQ, yeah, the support side because that will drive people nuts. And so that's why there's always a market for this stuff. It's it's not like hey, you're the juggernaut, no one can kill you. You could say that about any company in how history at one point they were the juggernaut no one could kill, and now no one remembers their name because something happens in the market, something changes, they can't adapt, boom, they're gone. Kodak. They're out. So Kodak's the greatest. Oh, yeah. So um, yeah, smartphone killed them off nicely. Oh, yeah. But yeah, so it yeah, they're they're the they're the talk of the town now, and it's great, and it's doing amazing things for the industry because it's forcing everybody to be competitive. And right now that's wind control. Someday that may be somebody else, and that's great, as long as it doesn't just become this explosive monopoly that kills off everybody. That's that's what you don't want to see happen. Because then suddenly now the now all the prices go up because let me give you guys a tip.

SPEAKER_05 56:33

If you guys have the money, pull out a make a complete Boeing set from jump and beat him to it. You guys would be rich if you had it. I would make a complete Boeing set. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_08 56:47

As much as it pains me to admit that as a as an Airbus quote unquote fanboy, where's my sound here?

SPEAKER_00 56:54

You're right. We got that mute button.

SPEAKER_08 57:05

You're right. They'd be in trouble, man.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

I mean, wing wing flex is bringing out 777 autopilot panel FCU.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Oh, oh, are they?

SPEAKER_05 57:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Oh, yeah, here it is.

SPEAKER_05 57:23

You know, people are looking, people are doing their thing. So, you know, that's where the competition at is gonna be. While they're stuck developing their Airbus for all you Airbus fanboys, people over here, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

I don't know, even though they're playing the plane, thank you very much. They're bringing out the uh the triple seven autopilot panel, but I truly believe that Wim Wing is gonna say at some point before Christmas, they're gonna say, you know what, hold our beer, we gotta go in storage right quick and just pop out with some more news. Let me get in this lab real quick with a whole with a whole line of Boeing stuff. I don't believe they're gonna get beat.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

And here's how they do it introduce a Boeing overhead first, just like that Airbus overhead. Yeah, you lock everybody right there.

SPEAKER_08 58:09

Who's got a Boeing overhead right now that works? There's a couple, man.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

Rose Pire, I think. Yeah, PU career. Yeah, you're all mini overheads, you're not nice.

SPEAKER_06 58:20

They're not big, they're mini, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 58:22

Right, they're do they work with like the standard PMDGs and everything?

SPEAKER_05 58:25

IFly, PMDG, the actual matter PU career that I have, even the starter cutout switch works. It just puts back oh yeah. The EGT gauge for the APU works. Yeah, that was that's cool. I was like, wow, yeah, it does work, it all works.

SPEAKER_08 58:40

Oh, yeah, see it here.

SPEAKER_05 58:42

Yeah, it works. However, real quick, oh low here go mine. I saw the wing wing full size joint, which was like this big, yeah. That's it on it. Seriously, you didn't you didn't have to, but thank you very much.

SPEAKER_06 58:54

Right now, now figure out how to mount that thing somewhere. That's the key.

SPEAKER_08 58:58

Oh man, well, I like the way they did it at the show.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

Two by four yeah, yeah, yeah, two by four home depot stock going up for the flights that were I'm telling you, Home Depot and lows for the win right now, man. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that in 8020. That's true, man. Yeah, but what do you guys think about because and and I think again, that's I think that's what's kind of cool was that you know, there's there's you know, to uh Moose's point, there's still space for you know plenty of hardware. So

New Hardware Players And Entry Yokes

SPEAKER_03 59:26

you had what PXN, right? If I'm not pronouncing that right, and Meridian, they're you know, it's like they're you know they're they're coming up the pace as well. What do you guys think about you know their their entries into the market?

SPEAKER_05 59:39

All right. I know I'm talking a lot, but PXN while you're here, man. Did you guys feel PXN yolks? Did anybody feel a PXN yoke? Yeah, we don't use my pinky finger and move that thing. It was like seriously, dude. This is this is not this is sub-entry level, honestly. Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

It looked great, it looked great, but it just it felt yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:07

It was just on that note, does anyone know? Did PXN say that was like that's the sale one, or was that a like a prototype prototype? Yeah, yeah, I never did here because I remember at San Diego when Turtle Beach first showed up on the scene. I remember looking at their yoke and going, it was like that as well. And I talked to the guy and he's like, Yeah, no, we are aware of this issue, these are these are pre-production prototypes, and these things are gonna get worked out, so they're they're not gonna be. And I know a lot of people love their turtle beach stuff now. Turtle beach is solid, but yeah, so so if it is if it is pre-production, if it's if it's a uh prototype, yeah, then I'll I'll give them a little bit of grace there. But I did hear that from a number of people that for the price they were talking, they were like, Yeah, this is yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

I think my I think I think Mike brought that up too. He was like, Man, I wonder if it's their prototype, you know, because it like even like the throttle of them is like here, check our throttle. You know, like I was like a wet noodle up there. Man, that felt bad because like I I love the I I love bro's energy. He had like an amazing energy, but I'm like moving it, and it was just like you know, Johnny's like, yeah, yeah, it looked pretty good.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:24

Yeah, in the same dress, we always talk about you know, hardware like vendor and exhibitor, and you know what you call a developer competition is healthy for the community, but man, you gotta you gotta come correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

But yeah, but again, but but you know, till Moose's point, you know, that could have been pre-production. Like to me, I I love the form factor, how it looked.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

It looked yeah, so you know, maybe Meridian stuff was pre-pro too.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Yeah, yeah, you know, and I didn't uh uh that's subjective.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:55

The the best entry level yoke that I saw was Thrustmaster, and they're back in the game. Did you see that Thrustmaster yoke? Can we see that guys?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:06

We're everywhere, bro.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:08

Yeah, the Thrustmaster Yoke, it's an entry-level yoke for $199, less than $200. It's got a trim wheel on there, it's got switches on there, it's got a push to top that one trigger. You can network it to another one on the same structure. And I was surprised that it looked cheap, honestly. I'm just saying the exterior of it. I'm like, did you 3D print this with like the basic settings on? It'll look finished and polished like Thrustmaster normally look like. But when I felt it, I was like, Holy crap, it's got some weight to it. It reminds me of the Honeycomb Alpha yolk. So you know, and is it's it's it's going to be the cheapest decent yoke on the market.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Is it com with the console? Because I I I had a chance to feel it, but is it console compatible as well? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

Xbox, PlayStation, and VC.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:00

Yeah, well, and that's a and that's a sleeper. I think Thrustmaster didn't get a lot of love at the expo when they announced that because they were the first one. And I think though, but to your point, you know, what is the entry-level yoke now? Like we don't like like it used to be it used to be cytek and ch products and logitech, whatever. Those guys are kind of gone.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

Gone.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:22

So this is this is big for entry-level stuff because then the next the next tier down is either a joystick from wind control, or it's gonna be like a meridian or a honeycomb, which is gonna be in the $350 range somewhere. So this is a big deal. It doesn't feel that big a deal to those of us that are like veterans because we're not looking for entry level anymore, we're beyond that. But for a bunch of people, especially on console, that are coming up, that's huge. So I think you know, it's kind of more of a sleeper, like it's not the ooh wow, but it's a good business decision from Thrustmaster to kind of fill that gap and be the entry-level guy. Yeah, hey, we've got a tree, it's got a lot of bells and whistles on it for what it costs. I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Especially catering to consoles, because let's be honest, that's what's driving a lot of everything right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

I think they should have taken a shot at a V2 of the Boeing yoke.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:18

I would love them to do that because I've got the boy, I love their Boeing yoke. My only strike against the Boeing yoke at this point is the the the uh X-axis and the Y-axis in it seem to interfere with each other occasionally, and there doesn't seem any fix for this. There's so the solution is to just run it through run it through the y-axis a bunch, and it fixes it, but I'll be straight and level, and you'll watch the yoke in the sim all of a sudden just like start veering off to the side, and all you got to do is push on the yoke and everything centers back up. It's like oh I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Have you calibrated it within window?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

I have I have calibrated it to the cows come home, and I've I've heard about this issue from multiple people, not just me. It gives a so not everybody, not everybody has it, but a lot of people do, and I don't understand why.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:04

What'd you say, XP?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:04

Yours, yours has mine would start the view would start drifting up right, like I was telling you.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:11

Oh, that little that little hat switch access one, not the yeah, that one's I've I've never used that one, it's the noisiest thing ever.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:18

Yeah, so my view does do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Yeah, my view does do that, but I just removed the view off that hat switch. That's what I did. I took it off. That's the only issue that I've got the other side for pan, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:31

But yeah, so that's my issue with the thrust manager because otherwise the pendular feel of that thing is fantastic. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

If they could just figure out how to put force feedback in force feedback, and that's that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:42

Force feedback, pendular yoke from Thrustmaster.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

It would be awesome because I mean, even if if wind wing or wind control releases the the force feedback yoke that they have, I mean that's a big contraption there. Man, that sucker's massive. That turns out.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:06

My

Force Feedback Is The Next Standard

SPEAKER_05 1:06:07

prediction is that we're all gonna have force feedback yoke soon. It won't be lost. I think it's coming in. Force feedback yoke is a new standard. Force feedback joystick is gonna be the new standard as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Yeah, chop them over because I I just picked up their AB6 and guilty.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

Nice.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:27

It's good. Been trying to tell you. Game changer.

unknown 1:06:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:33

Man, that'll work.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:35

That's old news. What y'all talking about? Force feedback is gonna be where it's at. It is.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:41

Yeah, it's just it's force feedback and a miniaturization of force feedback because that's going to be back is really large. It's big. And that it's it's a combination of price, and will this fit on my desk with my other stuff? And if you can bring those two things down, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

Yep, yep, game change. And and I think that's the battle that you know a lot of the manufacturers because I was I did look at wind controls, uh, you know, force feedback offering, and it's and but it's just like it's engineering. I mean, it's you know, if you need if you need higher newtons, you have to have all our bigger motors, like everyone, it's just what it is right now, yeah. But to Mrs. Point, if you know, if we can get that miniaturized down to where I can get like a 12 Newton offering and a foreign factor that I can plop on my desk, I have the CL60 now, and it's a good portion, like I'm that's it right there. And that's my desk. So you know, and I believe, you know, over time, you know, we'll you know we'll see it come to fruition eventually. But I I will say pivoting back to the pivoting back to the entry-level offerings that was out there, I was pretty pretty impressed to see to my to me Meridian again. Shout out to Nikki. I love the module modularization that he has built into their yokes, like you can swap out different screens and bits and pieces there. That's freaking cool. And you know, PXN's offering, there's you know, whole barring that's you know, not the final product. You know, I think he definitely has something there in Thrustmaster as well. But to your guys' point, you know, I really hope that you know, in terms of the backing, you know, I I don't want to see these a lot of these hardware manufacturers go to the wayside because you know, let's just be honest, manufacturing hardware is bloody expensive. And you know, we've we we've seen in the past, we've seen you know, companies come out and they have this amazing idea, but they just can't get the dollars to make sense. And you know, next next year's expo, you're like, where are they? You know, and they're you know never to be seen again. So, you know, in my mind, you know, if I just had if there was just one, I would kind of I guess give the little CTP award to, in my opinion. I think for me, I just say this because I tried it, MOSA. For source in terms of force feedback, because you know, XP's point, I think that is the future. Having that entry-level force feedback offering with the AB6 is just absolute game changing. I mean, right now, even the even Verple, not sure if you guys uh whichever, you know, we didn't do too much of it, so it looks great, but you're gonna pay for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

It's 900, yeah, yeah, it's 900 bucks and it looks huge, it looks like it's like a foot tall. Yeah, carbon.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

The verple with the uh with the different uh yoke handles.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:44

No, the minifort feedback base with a light box like a computer box. Yeah, that's cool. And it's like 21 newton meters, but it's like nine, eight hundred, nine hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Yeah, and I don't think that includes the stick, does it?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Yeah, does it you get a stick with it? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:01

Was it them that was coming out with the the yoke that you can interchange? Yeah, but you could put the bowling, you could put the yeah, they had the embryo yoke.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:09

The embraer yoke, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was verbal.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:12

What happened?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Yeah, did that come out? No, no, I think it came out, but I don't I don't I don't know where they were at with it. I was I was originally interested in getting that system because I liked that it had the embryo yoke, and yeah, right. And and when I looked at it, I could have sworn. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, I'll have to go back and double check, but I've could have sworn that initially when I when I found out about them that it was force feedback, true force feedback, like direct drive style force feedback. That's what I thought. But when I went and looked at it, because I was telling my guys about it. When I went and looked at it again, it said that it was it was it was driven by some sort of belts. Belt belt driven PC D. That's not for that's not that's not direct drive. No, yeah, that's that's your standard like old Logitech wheel, yeah. Rubber uh the belt drive system is different than a direct drive, yeah. If we're just talking racing wheels, right? So that's what threw me off of them. And I'm like, yes, I love the load, the yolks, but nah, I want that direct drive.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:23

This is not even out yet. It says Q2 2026, late Q2 for the vector yoke base, and then the handles.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

We're past Q226.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:34

They showed Q2, yeah, that's in like 10 days. And then the yoke handle says late Q326. They showed us this in Houston, didn't they?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

Yeah, it was it was right around that time. Gosh, it didn't say a whole Kickstarter.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Kickstarter back orders will be fulfilled before we Kickstarter. See, this is well they have according to what I saw, they have reached the the the goal. The goal, they've been reached the goal. So, what the heck is taking so long? That that's what I'm trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:10

Maybe that goes back to I think it was the same point or whoever said, you know, there's the hardware guys that have these great ideas, but they can't bring it to fruition. It just can't, and just like it may look good, but if you can't do it, then yeah, unfortunate, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

Where are you going? Yeah, for sure, for sure. In terms of software, y'all, was there any software? I know

Software Highlights: EFBX And SayIntentions

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

say intentions had a massive footprint there, it was freaking amazing. I was I think I spent a good portion of my time there, and a few others. Were there any was there any software offerings out there? And there was a lot of, especially on the keynotes, there are there was a lot of cabin announcement platforms that yeah, that was being some of those were interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:48

I I'm supposed to. I think I think software though, I think your two biggest are gonna be say intentions and then the probably like the EFBX thing that you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:57

Yeah, shout out to be it. Look at Leo's uh look at Leo's video with the interview with uh yeah, are we watching it?

SPEAKER_08 1:13:04

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:05

That being that's gonna be a game changer. I'm I must say, I cannot wait because I literally might buy a new iPad just because of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:13

Just the use absolutely if anything would make me buy an iPad or something, it would be that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

It'd be that. Yeah, I I think that that's gonna be the one that that kills all of the other you know, sim toolkit pro, Velanta, yeah. Yeah, I think that's gonna do it for me.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:29

So the thing is a Swiss Army knife of options. Oh man, yeah, she was showing me all the different things like literally everything you can think of in your stuff that I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

That's freaking epic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So shout out to that team.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:49

Software-wise, I'm giving it to them as far as that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Is uh an interface is so clean. I mean, it's smooth as snack, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:02

Yeah, I didn't these guys told me that while we were there. I didn't realize that. That makes a lot of sense now. It's like laggy.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

Overachieving by the way, well hold on, hold on, XP. Let's put some respect on it. Real world, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

Real world, that's true.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:21

That's true. But also, for those of you that don't know, she has a free little tool on the Pfleisman.to and it's a it's a volume, you know, it basically equalizes the volume for Batsim. So for those of you that are listening on Batsim, every once in a while goes and just gets all big and blows your ears out. That doesn't happen anymore. So go pick that sucker up if you haven't already.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:45

Uh you know what's called the top.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:47

I'm grabbing it right now because I got it. It just it's called uh well, maybe that's what I named it. I think it's just called KD Pilot Audio or something. But it's uh but it's in the utilities on flightsim.to, it's awesome, and it's real simple. It's a quick she wrote it overnight. Like I was uh she was streaming. I will I watched her stream, she was streaming and she had that happening the constant, like people talking really soft, and then the volume going skyrocket. And she was like, I'm tired of this. The next day she posted on her Discord, Hey, so I just wrote this little program overnight, I put it on TO. This solves the problem. Like, bro, that's when I was like, I didn't know you were a programmer, like I knew you were doing EFPX, but I thought you were like working with like a team of developers. Like, no, she's the one building this, like it's man, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

She's got jobs, she's got jobs, yeah, for sure. And I mean, not just the dev, but good dev. I mean, yeah, a lot of them out there is like, yeah, you know, that would have took I know some guys up there, man. That would have taken them a hot minute. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta be a good dev. So yeah, I mean, shout out to her. I mean, she was amazing. I know we um I think we uh spoke with her a few times pilot audio normalizer. Yeah, and I mean I'm I'm super stoked for that. And to I'm looking here staring at uh staring at an iPad now, and that's that's gonna be the way to go, fellas. Not gonna lie, definitely. I mean, because even even and I think I think this is what makes it simply amazing. She understands workflow. I mean, especially having to exactly you know interact with the EFB in her day-to-day, she gets to work for how many tools and programs have we had out there, guys, where you know it's it's functional, but it's but the workflow is terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:29

Yeah, it's very chunky.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:31

I I did did not get that feeling at all. No, um yeah, you know, messing with her application.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

So I'm I'm I'm I'm here for it, but the amount of options that they're gonna open up to developers in general is gonna be the sky's gonna be the limit with that program, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:47

Oh yeah, oh yeah, without a doubt. So yeah, I agree with XP on that. I think for me, even though you know, again, then say intentions, they they had they definitely released some heat in terms of you know additional functionalities in their in their say intentions application, but that that that EFB application is gonna make waves for sure. What do you think, Mike? For the EFB specifically, uh no, just in terms of software and job or anything kind of again, guys. We all know that you know we're running around some. We really didn't we this is a really legit, guys. Like our first time as as CTP being able to kind of sit and digest all this, so it really is.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:27

Yeah, I love the say intention stuff, man. I've I've started using Chaseplane again because it finally no longer crashes VR. So I like the combination of you know snapping to traffic being called out by ATC, uh, and just overall, all the little things that they're adding within say intentions. I think it's pretty cool. I had to tell these guys they didn't even realize all of the intercom and flight crew aspects of say intentions. These guys were just using it purely for air traffic control. I'm like, no, man, it it provides a whole level of immersion and an atmosphere added to your flight. It's it's it's pretty phenomenal. So that that was I think my favorite sort of segment of announcements was their continued improvements and innovation with that tool.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:13

Yeah, yeah, we gotta give a shout out to them. As a matter of fact, seeing what it provides makes me want to use it again. You know, I had stopped using it, but I think I might go ahead and yeah, yeah, definitely, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:24

Even if like sometimes I don't even use the ATC parts. I'll fire it up, and especially if I have that's going to be a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

I'm doing it all the time.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:31

I use it, I'll remove the ATC and just use it to help bring immersion to the cabin and the uh the experience of the flight because they'll they'll tell the them where you're going, how long the flight's supposed to be, the weather en route, all that stuff. The gate when you land, it's it brings the entire simulation together.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:50

Yeah, it it does for sure. Because I mean, I'll and because you know that's the thing, like in real world, you hear all that, you know, exactly, you know, especially in a you know smaller regional aircraft, like you legit hear all that. So, you know, I I definitely think it's important, uh, even though in my day-to-day I really don't use it as much as I should, you know, but I definitely need to take advantage of it. But and I know for me, software also, you know, with in terms of utilities, you know, the FBX, you know, definitely to the case for me.

Aircraft Hype: A220, A380, Bizjets

SPEAKER_03 1:19:21

But in terms of add-ons, man, shout out to Grinnelli Designs. That uh I I I know ain't too many DC heads in here, and I'm I'm okay to be on that hill by myself. That F-100, B's knees, ladies and gentlemen. Oh my gosh, man. I went and caught that thing day one. I actually I pre-ordered it. You pre-ordered it at Expo. What you talking about? I was cooking, bro. I was cooking. And man, it's just it, it it just really kind of takes you back to that era and then just the overall ambiance and the overall vibe that they've put around the release of this aircraft. But then you go to their booth. I kid you not, guys. I felt like I was, you know, back in the army on a on on AT or something, you know, with the netting and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

You're in the MASH theme song. Oh man, all that, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

And so, you know, of course, bringing it back into the sim, firing up. I'm desperately in need of a profile for it for my FFB. But aside from that, I guess I'm uh yeah, I'm thoroughly, thoroughly impressed. Civilian-wise, I really didn't see a whole lot there. Aside from, you know, in terms of like, you know, things that were coming out in short notice, but man, let me tell you, that 220 is gonna be legit, ladies and gentlemen. That that that is gonna be legit.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:52

Yeah, that was fun. That was cool to fly that around for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:55

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:56

I was really just sounds on that daggone thing for the win-win.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:01

The sounds are amazing, and it was really distracting being on the say intention stage. I kept thinking it was feedback, but it was the stupid A220 sounds uh of the engine firing up that you know, right at that one part where it kind of makes the wail noises. And I was like, is that feedback? No, it's it's 220. That's good.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:22

What were you gonna say about XP? Did you get to fly it?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:25

I'm the only one who has not looked at it, not flown it, and walk past every time.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:30

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:31

Because it was three expos ago when they introduced it. True. I'm just gonna wait until it comes out. I'm not gonna get my oldest. Yeah, I feel like I'm gonna go. I don't need the hype anymore. I just want to like it's ready today, let me go buy it and let's go play. It's ready, it's ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

Here's the thing I was the same way until Sunday I walked past the booth and nobody was there. Maybe that's right. And I was like, and then all of the guys were behind me, they were like, come on, let's let's check it out. I'm like, ah, all right, I'm gonna sit down. And then and then Synaptic was like, Yeah, you did you fly to yet? I was like, No, and he was like, Ooh, I was like, I'm sitting down. It's like a bird on my thing. Um, sitting down, I'm sitting down.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:20

We went plane spotting Leo, and there was a 220, it made the same exact sound.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:24

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

We do, yeah, we went plane spotting.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

Here's the thing. I got my first 220 ride on my flight home, and it dudes, I know, dude, and just like the synaptic.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

I put one about the Salt Lake, bro, and it was dead. I mean, it's just yeah, it can be a million noises going on, but when when you hear that howl, you know instantly what it is. What do they have on that thing? Is it a Pratt and Whitney? I think it's geared. I know for sure it's geared, but it might be a PW, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:58

You have to go to the that's the only the only similar noise to that one is the Pratt and Whitney 321 Neos. I'm gonna say a similar noise, but not as nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:08

Pratt Whitney P1500 go figure it had to be, it had to be okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:12

Yeah, I took that joint, I took Air Canada on that, and it was yeah, it was the exact same way. Yeah, awesome, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:20

They gotta they gotta even when we were there talking to them, they could they couldn't commit to anything. I'm like, is it this year still?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:27

Like, damn, how much longer does this thing it's probably gonna come out maybe a month or two after the 340? I don't think I know 380.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:36

380, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:38

You think the 380 is gonna drop before it?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they don't want to wonder they know that 220 is gonna make some sales and they don't want to step on the 380, so they're gonna get that 380 out the door first.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:51

Yeah, when would you guys think the 380 is coming out?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:54

Probably next week, I don't know. The trail, I mean they dropped the trailer, like that's what a lot of people are saying.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:58

Once any starts dropping trailers, it's within a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:01

Yeah, it's pretty close, bro. Yeah, I ain't gonna lie, I'm waiting for that Falker 70100, man. So y'all can have 380 good. Shout out to it.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:11

Next week, probably. Yeah, yeah, it did look good. I can't lie.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:14

Hey man, you guys need a sneak shot they they threw in there, and he's uh with the uh what was that? The help me out, guys. The global oh, yeah. That was that was his that was that was cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

I'm on that global, and there's another company coming out with a 7500. I think any is the really 6,000. They doing 6,000.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

There's another company coming out with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

That is gonna that is gonna that is gonna corner my market, you know. Out of all of the biz jets that I have that I enjoy flying biz jets, I'm like, man, we got nothing with real range. I tried the flight effect citation 10. That should be able to make it from Teterborough to London City. I don't know what's up with it, but I had to refuel midair.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:02

I was like, Emerging breaker.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

I was like 300 miles short now, you know, and I had I had to take it. My man said bump reserves, yeah, yeah, absolutely bump reserves. So, you know, it's nice to be able to get a you know a super long-range biz jet. We need not only are we getting one, but we're getting two, two, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:25

So those globals land over here in Van Nuys all the time, and I've seen like Van Nuys Tennis France, like the legs on those things, man. 6,000 miles or some cracking. 6,000 nautical miles, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:39

Yeah, well, and speaking of biz jets, I I've seen previews again for the the Falcon 50 from yeah, the contrail. Oh, yeah, that should be dropping soon, but they weren't they didn't have anything to go into the expo this time, so kind of got a little overlooked. But yeah, yeah, there's a number on the commercial side, there's a number of things that are coming close, like the bluebird 757, obviously PMDG's 74s at some point someday. But the yeah, a lot of stuff that's kind of coming, but nobody none of those guys really decided to have a presence this year because there wasn't anything more to say. Man, so I get it, but it just means they kind of like fell off.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:15

We're getting GTA 6 before we get that damn blue bird. Don't get Charlie started, guys.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:21

Don't get Charlie started. We're getting a big thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:22

Charlie's been waiting for that thing since before Houston.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:30

Oh no, trying to hear it, man. Because we're because we're third. I'm just gonna be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

I ain't trying to get no season assist, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:36

Man, we're we're seven five. And and what what I think to me, what was just nails on the chalkboard was to go to many the home seventy five years is chilling, man. Man, that thing's everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:51

Oh my gosh, man. Like I got like eight pictures of them just taxi into the runway, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:56

Man, I just I mean, I think Bluebird has gotten to the point where it decided not to make any more announcements until it's ready. I'm not fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:05

That's that's what they should have done.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:07

Yeah, I think they've they've they've realized that the development of that is just not as smooth as they thought it would be. It's it would have been out of it. They're like, yo, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:16

Well, and I think some of that's feature creep too.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:19

That too. How deep you how deep is deep? How deep do you want to do that?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:23

I mean, dude, I don't care if there's a turd in the toilet, get the thing out.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:28

You know, this is a reason why I and I abilves to me is always B planes on all their planes are B. They're never A. But it's it's on purpose because they can get them out.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:38

They can get them out, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:40

And they're they function well, they can always come back with a 2.0. Yeah, man, just get it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:46

Yeah, for a similar functions, but don't be trying to do no failures and hydraulic glee gleek and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:55

It's not that. And I I'm fine with that, you know what I'm saying? I'm cool, I'm actually fine with no. Study level, break this, break that thing. I'm fine with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

We'll call it like we do in the DCS world. It's it's not study letter, but it's high fidelity. Yes, you know what I mean? It's not a flaming cliffs aircraft.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:16

Okay, that's I think that vector 787 and even Horizon's new update is gonna beat their 7.5N. And didn't he announce a 7-8 as well? Yeah, they did 7-6 and 7.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:29

When they're done with the 7-7.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:31

Oh god, that'll be a good one. Yeah, but that'll that'll be in uh 2037. Yeah, that'll that'll happen when the high speed rail in California probably gets started.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:39

Yeah. As a Californian, it's fine, man. It's Microsoft Flying Zim 2050.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:47

All right. I got a question for you guys. And um,

X-Plane Presence And Show Floor Demos

SPEAKER_05 1:28:51

I did a little rant on a video yesterday or day before.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:54

Oh, the X the X Plane one?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:56

Yeah, how many of you guys fly X Plane? How many fly X Plane? Occasionally. All right, there we go. So many, Minneapolis. We had the the floor. Microsoft had their own setup as usual. Love it. X-Plane had their setup towards the front left side, and it was all a seminar. Wouldn't that have been nice if we had uh six computer stations you could try X-plane in different lanes on a three or a 10 mile final? Yeah, and then then down here go, you know what? I just jumped off a test on X Plane, let me go run to Microsoft real quick, low on a test then. I you know, if you fly X Plane only, let me go check the Microsoft one real quick. Or if you fly Microsoft only, let me go check the X Plane one real quick over here just to see the differences. Wouldn't it be nice to have that? Like, you know, would you guys think? Or is it better to have a seminar where you teach to learn to make plain?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:45

No, I uh no for me, I think you're spot on XP because I looked over there and I was like, man, you know, because I was talking to our our our buddy, is it oh, I don't want to just remember his name. Yeah, but man, we see him every expo and we have just amazing conversations. This was makes the expo so amazing, but anyway. Uh and I think for me, XP, to your point, there really should have been more interactivity as it relates to you know, having like a computer station step, something like that, where people can put hands on the platform because I'm sure there were a lot of folks that were showing up for Microsoft Flight Simulator, but it's like, hey, let me go, you know, we're gonna check out you know, X-Plane over here and just to kind of see, you know, how things revive. And I to me, I think that would have taken you know, taken their presence there to the next level. Because truth be told, I think you can ask a you know, you would have asked a lot of folks out there and they would have never known because it was just it was just a class there, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:40

So yeah, I didn't know what that was. So, you know, there's that. Also, to your point, there was a couple of of stations or or other booths that were using X Plane, yeah, but it wasn't obvious, and you didn't know. I mean, if you unless you unless you really know both sims, you wouldn't sit down and go, Oh, this is X-Plane. Okay, you know, like even put a thing on your booth, like saying, you know, this one is you know featuring X Plane or whatever. So people could do that. You could go around and go, hey, I want to see that because ultimately you're gonna have this kind of battle about like, hey, Microsoft Flight Simulator, X Plane, what do you put them head to head somewhere? That would be nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:19

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. So maybe that's why it would make the show floor even more exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:24

Yeah, absolutely. Maybe that's why they didn't, is because they had so many other exhibitors with you know. I know that uh desktop pilot. Yeah, they were using X Play.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:38

That that wing wing yoke, that was a five factor seven. People thought it was BMDG. It wasn't, it was a flight factor.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:44

Oh, yeah, flightsim.com had had X Plane as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:48

But yeah, but again, if you didn't know, you weren't you wouldn't necessarily put it somewhere on the booth, say, hey, yeah, we'd love to have you run our software and thing. Can we put a little sign says you know, powered by X Plane or something? You know, just to yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:03

Microsoft has 90% of the flight sim market, but you know, but they're still X Plane. And right, this is a this is a flight sim convention. Yeah, show up, put up your banner, show what you got. Don't don't be like ashamed or afraid of it. Like, no, you got supporters, that's why you're still here. Like, show your stuff, man. Show it for the 10% of people, and let people get curious and go, what are these people on about X-Plane? These X-Plane guys don't know what the hell they're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:28

You know, there's a lot of Microsoft Lights and people don't even know about X-Plane.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:33

There you go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:34

Yeah, that's it. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:36

We call him the new, the new kid. Exactly. It would be nice if one year we get like a full DCS setup, not just uh Man, I keep waiting for the like that's Evan and Phil have been yelling at DCS to get out to that show for years, and uh really.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:53

I was curious about that. Yeah, no, they've been seeing a lot of DC. They have been trying to push. Yeah, it is it is not for lack of trying, believe me. It is yeah, yeah, for whatever reason, they just will not do it. That's strange.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:06

That's yeah, that's just the rationale behind it. Eagle Dynamics is known for just doing their own thing. It's not true. That's just true.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:15

Eagle just does their own thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:19

I didn't realize that that that that goes even with their whole RAS M. Let me shut up. But uh let's not bring that up, John. Yeah, we already know, man. Yeah, it just it it hurts, man. It's just hurt, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:35

Yeah, but it hurts hurts the heart, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:38

But so you know, guys, we know we know this, you know, it was just phenomenal, loads of exhibits, the venue was great. So the

Cons: Parking, Hotels, And Area Options

SPEAKER_03 1:33:48

cons. Was there anything you guys felt could have been improved a little bit, you know, in terms of you know, whether it was the lodging, the uh concessions, the exhibitions. Leah, let's start with you, man. What'd you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:06

For the most part, I did like the venue. I think that them putting up signs, no outside food or drink was kind of weird because now you trap us. Yeah, every other that's the convention, though.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:22

That's not expo, I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every other venue. Yeah, uh it is the convention, it's not, it's not them. Yeah, sure. Um, like I said, I like the venue. The venue was nice, the convention center was nice, it wasn't you know, overly far or whatever. The irritation was okay, well, you know, for those of us that rent cars, you know, to pay to park every day. I mean, that's kind of stupid. Maybe, maybe provide a discount or something for that if you're gonna have it at these places where you gotta pay to park. Other than that, man, really, I guess my gripe is just like I said, the just the the area in which you choose to have it. Like I said, it was after the expo, it was really, you know, nothing but Zambonis and going to eat and then whatever else she got into.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:11

The Wains man.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:12

Yeah, so I mean, other than that, it it wasn't a bad expo. It was good. I enjoyed myself. If it was there next year, I would probably fuss, but I'd go. I'd go. Same thing, same thing with Vegas next year. I'm fussing, but I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:31

Yep, we'll be there. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:34

What about you, Mike? Listen, man, that was my first time, surprisingly, in uh the state of Minnesota, much less St. Paul. So I like that. Wait, hold on. We're talking about what I didn't like?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:45

Yeah, oh sorry.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:47

Oh, the hotel splits. So I was under the impression that IHG was gonna be where it's at. Right. So I booked, you know, damn near when they made the initial announcements. I think Charlie and Johnny did the same. And they generally have a couple of different venues. I get that because of overflow and capacity, etc. But being and staying there, I didn't feel like anything was happening there. It was all at Talio's Point, Zamboni's, the Hampton Inn, and the Double Tree down the street, closer to where the expo actually was. So I think that split the group a little bit. It wasn't until Saturday night where we got to actually you know spend time with everyone because I was there from Thursday, and I realized it was Saturday when I spoke to everybody, yeah, we've been hanging out this way. So that was a little that was a little odd, I thought. I didn't dislike anything else really. I mean, direct flight from LAX, Delta, in there nice and smooth. I think, like I said at the beginning of the show, the weather was phenomenal. So no complaints there, especially for what we know Minneapolis can get like in the winter. I didn't have family come with me this time, so you know there wasn't any concerns about what they're gonna go do, which sounds like there was you know things that people found themselves into anyway. So I think that would have been fine, but honestly, not a lot of dislikes. I think I think it was fine for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:16

What about you, XP? What'd you think, man?

SPEAKER_05 1:37:17

It's funny. We almost missed this one, and I've I completely forgot

Friday Floor Access Vs The Mixer

SPEAKER_05 1:37:22

about it. Oh, yeah, it's a big one too.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:24

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:25

And it it stemmed from what I miss and what I realized what it was replaced with. Every expo after the announcement, you had that that meet and greet drink hour where everyone.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:37

Oh yeah, the little reverse. Oh, oh, after the Friday evening, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:44

Yes, after the Friday evening, you have that one hour you get your free drink on uh content creators used to get not content creators, whatchamacallit, used to get like a couple coupons to give out media partners. That's right. Media partner I used to walk around and give out coupons, hey man. Yeah, oh, you're from England? Aye, bro, there's a drink right there, whatever. Like, oh thank you. We didn't have it, and the reason we didn't have it, which is gonna bring this question up what do you guys think about opening up the show on Friday afternoon after the announcements versus first thing Saturday morning?

SPEAKER_08 1:38:18

What do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:20

Yeah, because I've heard it, I've heard it both ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:24

I kind of liked it, but I kind of didn't like it too. Because you kind of you kind of got a feel Friday night of what it was going to be, and then you walk in Saturday and it's just like all business, let's do this and roll on.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:35

I think so. XP, let me get this right. You mean it'll be exhibit Friday afternoon, and then the actual kickoff with announcements is Saturday, and then you could go back to the exhibit after. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:51

You missed it in Houston, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:52

And you go about your business.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:55

Usually after the announcements of all the ones I've been to, you have a social outside in the lobby. Outside of the hall. Imagine you walking out the hall, and that lobby is filled with people, everybody from the hall, and there's bar station set up all the way around. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got a couple of bar members. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:15

They took that out and they added floor access right after the announcements so you could get to go down to the floor and see everything on Friday. That's what they added this time.

unknown 1:39:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:27

We did that on Friday. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:29

Because remember, normally you don't get to see my Thursday morning. Right. Saturday is usually the first time you get to see everything. Saturday is usually the first time you get to see everything. You know, and I had a couple people say to me, like, I don't know about this Friday afternoon thing, because it takes the excitement away from Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:44

I agree.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:47

You already sculpted out, you already didn't. That's exactly it. Right. You know, so it kind of took the Saturday morning buzz away because you'd done stay already. Now it benefited me where there was less people on Friday because I go to stuff and film stuff and talk to people. Yep. I had my my my floor plan, what I wanted to do. But you didn't have the social afterwards to drink, and but you got to see the floor. So, you know, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_08 1:40:17

No, I think you're spot on, and I think that's what I was alluding to, like being at the IHG afterwards, it was dead because there was nobody in different ways. Oh, yeah. Had we had the social afterwards, we would have been everybody would tell everybody, and everybody would tell everybody where you're going after that. Yeah, and that's that's your you're spot on.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:36

Once people start drinking, they get loose, they're like, Yeah, let's go here, let's go finish up drinking over here or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:41

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and now that happened to Kevin's point, you know, yeah, you you could totally get through most of it on Saturday, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:49

So But do you want them to continue but not if you're trying to do interviews and all that kind of stuff, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:55

But do you want them to continue to open the shore on a Friday evening or put it back to Saturday and Sunday only? I don't know. I I'm not sure that'd be tough one.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:04

The exhibit hall, you mean? Yeah, I kind of liked it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:09

I I mean it was cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:10

I did too. I didn't hate it, but it was like I kind of XP's point. I I enjoyed that mixer. Yeah, yeah, that mixer was cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:17

Now, if I had to choose between having a drink with the guys or getting you know some easier recordings and footage, yeah, exactly. Tough one. I mean, that that's what it was beneficial for opening. Oh, because it wasn't slammed by the lot of my footage I got Friday. That's what you mean. But it's true to social.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:42

Forget it, no social Friday.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

I mean, no, no, what I'm saying is what I'm saying is I don't care if they choose to have a social again and just open it up Saturday. We'll still get footage. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's over there. Yeah, we'll still get some footage.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:59

Yeah, I mean, so I can I I talked to Evan about this on Sunday a little bit because I was talking to some of the developers on their feedback regarding Friday as well. So and from the I guess they did a little bit of a poll, I think, at some point during the weekend, and so they got some immediate feedback from the people saying whether they like to doing the Friday opening the floor up versus the mixer thing, and it was in favor of doing the floor. The developers, though, a lot of them don't like it because it shortens their window. So there was some. Yeah, because they're trying to get prepared. So some of the downside was I heard that there were some developers that weren't quite ready when the doors opened Friday, because they normally, while we're all doing the announcements and stuff, they're building their booths, they're finishing all that up because they have all day Friday to do it, and then Saturday the show opens. So so there was a little bit of that. Edson mentioned he felt a little bit of a disconnect because we actually saw less people in the hall for the announcements because they had to be there finishing up their booths because it was going to open and they couldn't dedicate as many people there to kind of be in the moment and enjoy the other announcements from the other devs and kind of so they felt kind of disconnected. So there was that side of it too. On the other side, though, in talking to Evan, their their hardship has been how do we sell a Friday ticket to people if there's no exhibit hall floor? And so, because there's people that we had come in the past that go, I can come to the Friday announcements and I can come to Friday, but I can't come to Saturday, Sunday for whatever reason. So, what's my purpose of going if I can't ever get on the expo floor? So, by allowing the expo floor to open, although for a limited time, it allows them to make a Friday only option for people that just happen to fit that niche and they can do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:52

I'm with you hours after work and swing through.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:54

Yeah, exactly. And I'm with you guys. I love I do love the mixer, I think that's a cool thing. I feel like there's gotta be a way though we could work that in somewhere, somewhere else in the Friday deal or something. I don't know, maybe moving the starting announcements earlier, like maybe that's what I was gonna say too. Maybe start the office at 11 or 10, yeah, and then you do a little bit of a mixer and then go into the show floor, and you know, maybe that's a compromise. I don't know. Sure, but I can see that being an advantage. One of the things I had suggesting to Ethan, and he said, Oh, yeah, that would be that would be really cool. And so I mentioned it to Evan, is if they're having to be in there and setting up and not being able to witness the announcements, is to pipe that in the exhibit floor, whether that's audio or video through the obsolete stage or something, so they feel like that they're then included in in hearing what's going on while they're finishing up. So there's some options there, but yeah, it's a it was it was definitely a change, and I think overall it was received well, but I think most of the people that didn't like it were the devs.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:54

Absolutely. Kevin posed a poses a good question as well. Do they or have they ever done a thing where they allow media partners to go in early Saturday morning and do interviews? I do know like for correct me if I'm wrong, uh guys, but I do know like for sponsors, they allowed sponsors what to go in on the show for early.

SPEAKER_08 1:45:13

I was able to go in from Thursday, Thursday, yeah to do your thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:18

But I'm not not sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:45:19

I didn't interrupt anyone, they were busy setting up, so exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:22

You can't really talk to them because they're supposed to be bothered while they're trying to get set up.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:26

Yeah, yeah. So I mean there's there's always room for improvement, right? I didn't get to I didn't get to hit you. Charlie, what was your you know, I guess biggest con or you know, things, you know, something maybe they could have proved on in that expo.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:41

I'm kind of with Mike. Really one for one with Mike. I don't have a lot of cons. I just my biggest thing was during presentations, let's be prepared. That would be my only thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:55

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:56

Because I think that's and and you know, we touched on that. Not everybody can get up on stage and do those kind of things. Heck, I couldn't probably, but I would find somebody who could. Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, you want if you're selling a product, bro, that's your best chance to sell it.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:13

You know, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:14

Yeah, I want the best person I got up there to say, Hey, y'all need this.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:21

Yeah, no, Fresno Jason, to your point, and that and that's a tough one because it's trying to be engaging a lot of us experience that streaming, right? You know, trying to be engaging and not adding those filler words like um, and you know, and you know, it's it's tough, but there are people who legit offer classes for this stuff, so that's really you know, I think Lord knows I can't speak a lick of English.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:46

So tell this people to do what I and I what what uh Saint Tensions did, make little 30-second trailers and then show the best of it and go, okay, I didn't get to eventually. We did this vector, we did this mesh, and we did this, that it took us 20 computing hours, whatever.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:04

That's a really good point. You let the videos speak for you, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:07

You know, and then you can break that how we got it. So people and I think that I think that's why Nikki from Meridian was able to stay under his time because he did that, he had like three or four videos, and it allowed it to make the point in a succinct way, whereas normally he is so passionate he'll just ramble forever, which is fun to listen to sometimes, but not when you have that set time.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:28

What he did when he filmed himself in front of the equipment, pointing everything out, was perfect. I was like, Yep, yeah, that's the way to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:36

And he did that like 15 minutes. We saw him coming up the escalator from the floor right before the episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:43

What's going on, guys? What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 1:47:45

Yeah, well, that's why I said he was bringing that flask drive like during the during the break, right before he was. Yeah, that's when we saw him going up the escalator.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:58

It did work in the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:59

So yeah, yeah, so that's awesome. I know that's awesome for sure. Moose, man. What um was there? I mean, I know you were kind of you know behind the scenes. It was like, you know, but is it was there anything where maybe you know you felt that you know as a team could have been done differently or anything like that?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:18

Yeah, so uh well and I I this was a great point that that Mike brought up that I've never really thought of, but from a person who hasn't been in a while or before or is used to an older format, the whole splitting of the hotels thing is kind of a more recent phenomenon with Expo. Obviously, when we do it in Vegas, there is the hotel because it's a giant hotel, the convention center's located as part of it, it's all one thing, so it's obvious that's the event hotel. But when you're doing it at a we did this in Houston for the first time where we split there were two primary hotels, they weren't right next to each other, and then the venue was even farther away. You had to take like shuttle buses to get there or at least you had a car. I think we drove. So uh, so if you're not used to that format and you see event hotel, you are you're probably led to believe, oh, this is where the action's gonna be. And yeah, but I remember when they posted that for the first time, they said the primary event hotel is the Intercontinental, and then the Hamptons like right across the street from the event. Yeah, the other one is over here. And I'm like, Well, I'm guessing the event hotel is the event hotel because it's got the most rooms. I'm booking the Hampton because I don't want to walk that block down there. I'm gonna be right there. And so that's without making that clear that hey, just because the event hotel doesn't mean that's where the action is. The action is is the action is where the expo is. I think there's a there's a probably a better way to make that clear to people that aren't used to this. And so anyway, but I so I I could see that as a as a a a little bit of a con there. The other stuff, I mean, to to the point of you know, everyone kind of just ended up at uh Zamboni's every night, that's just kind of The fluidity of the event. There seems to always be a location or a bar or somewhere every year. It's the spot, and it just it kind of happens naturally, and that's just where everyone ends up. And so it's kind of like you you join or die. And and it's great. Some people went off and did their own things on other nights and whatever. Some people were happy to just hang there and close that bar down every night and to to each their own to whatever that's what they do. I I end up being there most of the time. I don't even drink, but I just knew that's where everybody was at, and that's where I wanted to be. I'm all about people. So yep. Yeah, as far as as far as like any major cons, I don't think so. Everything, like I said, flowed really smoothly. Yeah, there really wasn't anything that just the only the kind of kind of bummer in some sense, it wasn't really, I mean, just an aesthetic bummer was that they happened to be tearing up that street right in front of the river. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm sure that wasn't the case when Evan was going there and booking this thing, and then we show up's like, Why is this trash? So that just kind of made it kind of like a oh, that's kind of unfortunate. But you know, that we're gonna do that. The city of St. Paul is doing their thing, I'm sure. So, but uh so that's trying to get it. It would have been nicer if that was at least it didn't demolish the hotel. That's true, that's true. They've tried that before.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:18

So oh, oh my gosh, I almost forgot about that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:24

Last time we were in Vegas, it was a whole like, oh crap, they're knocking our hotel down. What are we?

SPEAKER_08 1:51:28

And what was that within four months, yeah, or something like that?

SPEAKER_06 1:51:31

It was so they announced what was what was crazy is they announced the the fact that this was gonna happen, and Evan and Phil, like this was in October, and Evan and Phil were on the phone with these guys with the hotel going, hey, what the heck? And they they were reassured up down three ways from Sunday. No, no, no, this is gonna be like a year and a half process out. You're fine, you guys are both good, stick with us. Come December, like two and a half months later, all of a sudden the managing the managing group, the managers hotel, yeah, we're we're ending all use of it in April and starting Devil. That's right, and we're just like oh, yeah, it's a crazy turn of events for that. It was just nuts, yeah. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:16

Wow, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:18

But I mean, kudos to well, one kudos to the community because a number of people jumped in, were like, I have contacts with these people, these people, and a bunch of hotels did reach out to say, hey, we'd love to host you, can it make it work kind of thing? And then just for Evan and Phil, just having to punt on that and make it. And I mean, it was that that's I can only imagine it being them for those few months. Like, I know again, like you said at the beginning, it's not like this is their full-time job, like they have to manage all of this while exactly life is this is this is their hobby kind of thing. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:51

Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. You know, you're you know, trying to work a trip or something, all of a sudden you get an email.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:56

Oh crap, the hotel or getting ready to push back on myself, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:01

Bro, you're like contact me on oh yeah, bro. They just wreck and ball y'all's hotel.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:11

You guys seeing this?

SPEAKER_03 1:53:13

Like mess up flows and everything, bro. Let me go grab his clearance.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:19

Yeah, what was that? Was I the only one that actually went? It was I think it was televised. I went on YouTube and watched it live. Then demolished it.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:33

I didn't watch it live.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:34

I saw the video after the fact, yeah, implode the uh Tropicana. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:40

I remember driving by it though in Vegas when we were there for the show because they at that point they were they were in the process of gutting it, and it was already like the facade was gone and it was holes all in it because they were taking off as much as they could before they could, you know, go through and strap all the explosives to it because that didn't happen for a few more months. But sure, it was already like a shell. Like when we were I'm like, we were supposed to be in there with the crowd.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:04

Wow, unbelievable. That's crazy. But yeah, I mean, you know, again, you know, I know we can't say it enough, guys, but like shout out to Evan and the team because it's every time we go there, I mean, it doesn't feel disorganized at all. Everyone is where they're supposed to be, just in the man. I think we didn't get to speak with him much, you know. Every time he looked at me, now he was just like everywhere. But yeah, I mean, he's you know, great communicator, you know, had no issues, you know, finding things or anything like that. So yeah, definitely shout out to you, Moose, and uh the rest of the team for putting on an amazing show. Definitely looking forward to the next one for sure. But I mean, uh, in terms of that, fellas, is there anything that, you know, that you any shout-outs or anything that you guys want to bring to light uh in terms of uh this year's expo?

Volunteer Shout Outs And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_06 1:55:00

Just one more shout out to the uh the the red shirt guys, the ground crew guys are walking around during the expo. They're the the volunteers other aside from Evan and Phil. Uh and those guys all pay their own way to expo, they all volunteer and man all this stuff and and make sure all this stuff goes. And a lot of those guys, the same guys every year that do this. Pregnant volunteers. That's right, that's right. Congrats to uh Phil. They're having their baby, I think August is due. So yeah, she was pregnant, and so yeah, so that was exciting. But then also no one would no one would like object to a pregnant woman. Like you just so no one's like, no, no, you can't do that. Oh, yeah, those those red shirt guys get need a lot of the credit, so kudos to them.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:51

Absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:54

Yeah, man, my shout out is to to to all you guys, man. It's again, we keep saying this, but you guys make the show. You know, it's it's cool to come and see what's going on and look at uh the developings and the the the continued growth of flight simulation, but it's the people that makes that growth continue to be interesting and and continue to make it go the way it's going. So it's always great to see you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:19

Yeah, that's not good. It's the community that makes it. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:24

So Antarctica 2028. We'll be there, man. Pink point that's the permanent location.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:31

No, don't they click at 340 down there?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:36

That's the one, that's the one your boy Leo was missing.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:42

Get that ski jacket out. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:49

Just so long as I can bring my harpoon for well hunting. Like all man. Yep, there. But yeah, awesome guys. Again, heck of a show. If you guys, if you guys were unfortunately didn't make expo 2026, definitely make plans to hit FS Expo 2027. Absolutely amazing. Tons of people there. It's like a big old family reunion. You'll you'll run into us there for sure. So definitely looking to have the opportunity to meet everyone in person again in Vegas. I don't know, guys. So every time I think of Vegas, I always think of like National National Lampoons Vacation in Vegas. And I'll go to that really grungy buffet with the blue stuff. And I hope that uh it's extra running tonight. But uh yeah, so yeah, definitely looking forward to that. Aside from that, guys, any any final thoughts? I know we had some final thoughts on the on expo, but you know, spade new year animals, all that fun stuff, any of that.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:53

You said it, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:54

All right, cool, cool, cool. I know it, man. I know it. That's yeah, that's that's that's old Johnny. But again, guys, thanks so much for tuning in. Definitely appreciate it. And hopefully, we'll see you guys at next year's expo.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:10

Take it easy, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:12

Keep it up.