Faith It 'til You Make It - Sam Rentz

Sam Rentz joins us on this episode. We talk about animals developing rude speaking abilities and camping hacks! Then we discuss church hurt, marriage, connection with people, and worship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So let's hear a metaphorical couple of company.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Or any other number.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

As we tag in our next episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Before we get to today's episode, we're going to talk about what this word testimony means.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

It's our belief that every follower of God has a story of how God has impacted their life, something that we can share that brings glory to God and encouragement to others.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Sometimes that story is specific to when you were saved. Sometimes it's a season that God helped you through, or sometimes it can be God growing you through everyday challenges.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

So what we're saying is, as a Christian, you definitely have a story to share. And we're ready to tag you in here on the Testimony Tag Team podcast. Reach out to us at testimony tagteam at gmail.com or click the link in the podcast notes to connect with us about sharing your story.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Today's guest is Sam Rentz. Sam, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you? Doing good, doing good, glad to have you. So, Sammy, as you know, the first thing that we're gonna do on our podcast is the tag your it segment. And so I'm gonna have you step up to the giant wheel of glory. And we're gonna spin to see what your fun question is. Of tiny glory. Don't let them deceive you. Sounds epic, you mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Trippy.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

All right. If animals could talk, which one would be the rudest? Take a second to think about that. Which one would be the rudest? I think I have an instant answer that comes to my mind. I'll go ahead and go first.

unknown 2:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Unless you guys have one. Crocodile. Crocodile? Okay, why do you think of crocodiles there? They're just nasty. They're nasty. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You don't want to get too close. I I feel like they would be really quiet, though. They would, they wouldn't, you wouldn't, they wouldn't mess with you unless you mess with them, right? So they they might be No, that's not alligator, crocodile. Okay. Okay, okay. Well, my answer first, the first thing that came to my mind was cat. Because the cat the cat will go out of its way to mess with you. It'll, you know, knock stuff off the counter. It'll leave you a dead mouse in your bed.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Well, I have to go with the bird.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Oh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Because they're loud and obnoxious already. So it makes sense that they would naturally be rude and also they're my mortal enemy.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Yeah, everybody, our listeners don't know this, but Valerie has a strong dislike of birds. So uh they she doesn't like the cranes or most any birds, really.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Although, I mean, the worst is maybe a seagull.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Seagull? Okay. Is there a story behind that?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I mean, there's a story behind almost every bird I've encountered.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

So it's some deep trauma that better for her and birds.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

It all started when I was three.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Hey, this isn't your testimony. No, it's uh Sam's testimony. So Sam, uh, so thanks for that. And uh, we have one more question before after the wheel, but before we get to the other questions. But this one's important in its own way. How addicted to coffee are you? Very addicted to coffee. All right, all right, yeah. So you everyday, everyday drinker. Absolutely. Five cups to start start off with. All right. We we've already had two ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

So we're we're you've had two, I'm still working on two.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

I'd kind of tend to guzzle mine. All right. Well, you're in good company here, so that's good. That's good. All right. So uh Sammy, tell us a little about yourself. So where'd you grow up? You know, what do you do for a living, those kinds of things?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I grew up in a frostproof. I went to frostproof high school. I went to Emmanuel Baptist church there on the corner. I was saved at eight years old. My my family, we went to church every Sunday, Wednesday, every time the the door was open. Okay. My dad was foreman over about 1,700 acres of groves.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

And I worked with him. I started working when I was 14 years old, and the insurance wouldn't cover me that at that age, so I learned how to use a hoe and and a shovel and those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

So I did a lot of manual labor. And then I moved up to driving tractors and front-end loaders and pushing trees, and just that's where I learned how to drive. They let me drive supply trucks and stuff, and you know, um a little bit before I had my license. So uh and then um I went into truck driving. And from there I I became a dispatcher. So right now I I dispatch, I do the load planning for the next day for uh a company that that don't that uh leases about 200 dump trucks. Okay. So so you know, like on Friday, like yesterday we planned for Monday. Uh you know, got them all set up and got everybody a job.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Okay, that sounds interesting. Okay. Does that mean you're really organized?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

For the most part.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Okay, for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Okay, good, good. All right, and uh so are you still still living frostproof? I live in Lake Wales, man. Okay, great. And of course you go to High Point Church with with us, so that's great. Yeah. All right. What what kind of things do you do for enjoyment? Things you do for fun.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

I love to camp. Okay. I love to go camping with the boys. I have uh uh my oldest son is 25, my uh my middle child, my middle son is Caleb, he's uh 23, and then my daughter's 19. She doesn't like to camp so much, but uh the boys, we we we started early and you know, we used to uh go to the state parks and they'd ride their bikes and we'd go fishing and that kind of thing. And and and for a while, you know, in their teens, they kind of got it got away from it. And you know you know, they were on their they were doing their own thing. And yeah. And then, you know, here lately they've they've come back to it. So so every year in the fall, we start we start camping. You know, we'll pick out weekends and plan it, plant it out and and and go, you know. That's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

What kind of camping do y'all do?

SPEAKER_02 7:16

It is so it's what do you what do you call it? It's it's not I have a cot, so I don't I don't sleep on the ground.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

And I have I have in the summertime actually rednecked my tent to where there's an air conditioner inside. There you go. So it's glamping. It's glamping. I can remember hearing Pastor Dak talk about uh going camping and and there not being any coffee, and you asked about my addiction. So if there's no coffee, there's no camping.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

So we can agree with that. I don't know what kind of torture he had, but I'm gonna have coffee. Well, we uh we've started camping recently, and you know it's we've been on a few trips just this last few months, and uh we've really enjoyed it, and we we won't have to pick your brain. Where where's some good uh campgrounds that you you tend to go to?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Our f our favorite is Cassimme Lake, like Kissimmee Lake State Park. Okay. Yep. And then we we go to Citrus Ridge. Okay. Now some of these that we go to, they they uh they have water but no electricity. That's why we go in the fall. Uh-huh. Because it's kind of cool, you know. Yeah, yeah. So it's a lot nicer.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

One time we went and we woke up the next morning and our case of water had frozen in the back of the truck.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

So I think put it over the fire.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

In the same way that that we do the air conditioning, we do the heater where we insulate, yeah, insulate the netting on top, and then I have a Mr. Heater that is safe to use in the tent. So we're good.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I mean Yeah, we're gonna have to pick your brain some more because we need some tips and tricks.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

We went camping in January. It was a cold night, and we we made it, but it was time. It was good. We we had a heater, but I don't know. It was a little one. Yeah, I think we we we learned a lot from that first in that first uh outing. But uh but we enjoy it, and that's cool that your boys are able to come with you and do that with you. That's really very cool. So you mentioned your your kids. You tell us about you, you're married, right? Yes. All right, can you tell us a little about your wife?

SPEAKER_02 9:22

My wife is Jennifer, she works at Mid Florida Credit Union. We've been married 33 years. Wow. We'll be 34 this this December.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

So how how are things with your wife, your relationship with your wife? What's what's that like?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Well, as usual, it started out really good. Um and and then uh then problems happened, you know. Um we don't know anything about that. So I don't know. I I I had We started out on the right track and with the kids, with the wife, and and and everything, you know, and uh we were on the right track. And I let some things get to me about the church, you know. I was back then I was singing on the praise and worship team. I mean I started out singing uh the from the from the time I could stand, I was singing. Oh wow. I started out singing bass. I started out singing lead, and then my voice changed drastically. So and back then the quartet thing was kind of, you know, you in the country scene, you had Alabama, you had the Oak Ridge boys. Yeah. And on the Christian side, you had the cathedral quartet, the Gaiters, that sort of thing. So I I learned how to sing bass. My mom had a piano. The kids would always stand at the piano, we'd sing. She'd just call us randomly, and I was always excited. I'm like the first one there, man. I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

And it's like a cool, wholesome memory.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, yeah. That's some good stuff. So in that that church that I mentioned in Frost Proof of Manual Baptist, that was that was our church for many years, and it was Baptist, you know. And then I I always felt like there was more, you know. You get to that scripture in in Corinthians, you know, and there's something, something more, there's something we're missing here. Where where they they used to skip over it, you know. So I was after it. I was seeking it. And I started singing on the praise and worship team for a church there in Winterhaven. And and that was that was what I was that that was something. I'm still trying to sing bass because I haven't learned, you know. I'm I'm still hanging on to the this bass thing. Uh-huh. And it and it's and it's and it's fading out, you know. Okay. Not a whole lot of people are into the quartets anymore, you know, and it's moving along, and I'm not wanting to move. So they tolerated me, and but I don't know what happened. I I, you know, there were a lot of things that happened up to that point, but they sold the church. All of a sudden the pastor is riding a brand new Harley, and then the church just dissipates. Everybody's scattered. It's like a like sheep without a shepherd. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

This was the church you grew up in?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

No, not the one I grew up in, the one in Winter Haven. The one I moved to.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Okay. Were you were you attending with your wife at that time? Yes. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

So, and I'm I'm getting to to that to my wife. So after that, I just quit. Uh I'd have had it. You know, there were there were things before that, but for me that was the end of it. I'm done.

unknown 12:32

You know.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

So so seeing that example of the pastor selling the church and apparently abandoning things. So I quit. Yeah, yeah. So that hurt you. So that was something that uh that caused you to step away from the church. Okay, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I quit completely. I stopped going to church. I stopped doing all the things that God had called me doing. And and I felt like then I had a I had more than I was showing, but I hadn't learned, you know, I hadn't developed it. So I just quit. And it's funny, almost almost at the same speed that that we learn to grow as a Christian, the reprobate mind comes on us, you know, we begin to go the wrong way.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And and almost fast, a little faster because, you know, you're choosing this wrong living. And it feels like to me that we're we're more reluctant to choose right living sometimes, you know, like the Lord is telling us to do something and we struggle with it. You know, but the wrong thing, we're we're a little bit quicker about that. So the reprimand was coming on, you know, and I I'm losing my grip. Not only in my spiritual life, but in in my marriage and everything else. So I started drinking.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Even even from the beginning, you know, I I struggled with pornography, and I was addicted to pornography for 30 years. And that already had an impact on my spiritual life. Oh, of course, yeah. That's from 11 years old, you know, but but here now, you know, I I've given up completely. So I'm I'm moving away from from God. So I started drinking. I st I quit hanging out with people, I quit talking to people. I quit talking to people to the point to where my wife was it. You know, I had relationships, but none close, you know. Like I I, you know, work, you know, you have people that you talk to, but you don't go very deep, right? Shallow. Yeah. So uh yeah, I started drinking and things started falling apart. And my my wife put her foot down at at at some point, and that is what turned turned my life around. She she finally held me accountable. I was I was sitting in that chair, drinking my life away. We had no intimacy. When she said something to me, I I would fire off. You know, I'm bitter because every dream that I had, everything that I envisioned had fallen apart. I'd given my life to this job, you know. When when I was 18 or 19, I uh had an audition with uh with Sunshine Harmony. Okay. And and and they they liked the way I sounded. And I was scheduled to I guess back then I was 15, 16, and maybe a little older. But they they liked the way they liked the way I sounded, and and I I was scheduled to sing at a church, but I didn't have a suit and I didn't know how to get one. I didn't know, you know. So so I I quit that tune. Yeah, yeah. So that was one of the the things that you know hadn't developed, and I didn't have anybody in my life to kind of push me and and those dreams, all that, all that was just falling apart.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

So it's like whenever your life wasn't meeting your expectations, you had a hard time figuring out how to get through it or like accomplish something, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Right. Right. Nothing your identity was in question. Yeah, nothing was working out. I give up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Like I go this way, there's a roadblock here, okay. Fine, I'll go this way. And eventually it's just like, okay, well, what else am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah. I thought it was interesting you said about like the reprobate mind, the uh the idea that when you are choosing to make sinful choices, you know, that you said it kind of slowly goes the same direction. But I I found in myself that it kind of it starts slow and and it builds slowly, but then it seems to kind of amplify over time a little more quickly, like you said, than you know, moving moving forward in your relationship with God, I think can sometimes feel like a slog, like you keep moving through it and then you keep and it gets better and better, but it's it's it feels slow. It feels like that growth feels slow, but the it's real easy to throw it all away. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah. So I mean, God is working. The whole time he's working, and you don't even see it. I mean, you're looking back now, I'm like, all this stuff was for a reason. Yeah, so so you said your wife put her foot down.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

What did what did that look like?

SPEAKER_02 17:11

That looked like she'd had enough. She wasn't putting up with this anymore, and she didn't know whether or not this this thing was gonna work. So she was she was thinking about leaving? Yes, okay. And I got scared. Because now this now, my wife, this is this is uh from the beginning, this is one of the things that that I attribute to God giving me. God gave me my wife. I mean I mean, I got a mirror, right? And and and you guys can see me. Like, like I can't do this on my own. I did not do that. God gave me that. That it God gave me that.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

You felt like you didn't deserve her.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

No, no. And and she's she's she's had enough.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

That was scary, man. And so she she wanted she kind of instigated the change. So is it like she was wanting to see a change in in your personality? Or how how did what what kind of change did she demand? She she had enough of the isolation and the distance. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Uh looking back, you know, I'm like, is she really that smart? That she had this all figured out, like like is did she did she mean it or did she not? And she was just trying to instigate change. Or in the background, is it all God? You know, it's like she it it was it was set like she was gonna she was gonna she didn't know how long she was gonna be or she like she was gonna leave. She wasn't sure that this was for her, you know. Um maybe she was too young when she got you know married. Maybe she made a mistake and uh like we we s she stopped kissing me goodbye that kind of thing. So I'm afraid and so I immediately cried out to God and made changes. Which started with asking her to go to church so and she came and things began to change, you know, because that that very night I go home from church after being here and Pastor Jack Perry preaching. I go home and then I I'm looking at the website and I see CR. Okay. So I go to CR and I I meet Mark, who uh you know has an identical, you know, testimony or close to it. And I poured my heart out to him and and that's when things started to turn around.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

But uh Okay, so how did how did CR so that's actually how you and I met is through CR. So how how did CR you say it started to turn things around? What what was it about CR that was helpful to you? So for the for those who don't know, before we go on. CR is celebrate recovery, and it's hosted here on Sunday nights, High Point Church. And it is a it's a recovery program that covers can be addiction, could be uh abuse or or trauma, it could be codependency or sexual integrity, yeah. So those it's it's a place where people can go and follow a 12-step program and and have have accountability, have community, and and and work together. And it's all all faith-based. So it's it's uh Christian background, Christian.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

And just real quick, if you feel like you don't fit into one of those categories, you should come anyway because celebrate recovery is recovery from everything. Like if you struggle with anger, you're gonna fit in one of these categories, we promise. Yeah. So if you're looking for support, like that's certainly something to look into.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, the uh you know, the tagline for celebrate recovery is hurts, habits, and hangover hang-ups. Not hangovers. We're not doing hangovers. No, we're looking for the if you have a hangover, you maybe could you could come, it's okay. Um, but we're not encouraging the hangover. Yeah, so I think everybody has something in their life that that could fall into one of those categories. And so if you're you know willing to be vulnerable and talk to a group, it's definitely super valuable. And so how how did what was it about CR that helped you in that time?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

It was just having people that have struggled, you know, the old church, it's like you had to be perfect, you know. And they they made you feel like you're the only one that has this issue. And then you go to researching and reading, it's like 70% of the men who attend church, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Yeah. And then we'll finish let's finish that stat. 70% of the men in church, what was that?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Look at pornography. It's interesting. Yeah. I'm not alone here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And the women are in that too.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Well, actually it's declining now, so which is a good thing. But you know, the I w I can remember going up to a pastor and and needing help and wanting help and and him visibly like cringing. I just wanted help. I wanted to change. And him visibly cringing and and like I just didn't know where to go. But this marriage thing led me to this church, which led me to CR, which led me to Mark, which turned my life around. You know, it's like it's like thinking to my wife, is my wife really this smart? No, it's it's God. She is smart.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

I'm not saying she's not, but um, yeah, she couldn't foresee all that it would come from from this.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

From the beginning, you know, God had a plan. And uh it it's amazing now when you look back at it. But C R, I get off track. So when I walked in there, they were gonna it's interesting, they were gonna do that. You're where you where you meet with somebody and they tell you what it's all about kind of thing. Yeah. I'm I'm so blessed that don't tell nobody, but I'm so blessed that that Mike wasn't there that night. And and and and f and uh I forget his name. The guy, the presenter, he sets up the presenter for you guys. Fred. Fred, yes. So he did the preliminary talk about CR. But I I said, I gotta I gotta I gotta go to a meeting. I gotta I gotta talk to somebody. And he led me. He led me back there to the group. And um I told him my life was falling apart. I told him that I had no hope. I told him that I was addicted and I couldn't figure out how to get out of it. And and the combination of all those things, you know, just the drinking. The the the day before my wife told me what she told me, I had went to a like a Christmas party and I blacked out. I I had lost time. I didn't had no idea how I got from the bar to the to the um hotel room.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Where they were having the company party or whatever. I I had no idea. No idea how I got there. And I can remember coming back, and that's when my wife explained that she'd had enough. But I went in that room and Mark was there. And I you know, I I could just barely get it out before just bursting into tears, and you're just just unloading all this weight that I'd been carrying, you know, and and and and and Mark basically told me that I wasn't alone. And then I had guys, I mean it was a big class. I was like 15 people there, you know. They had similar stories. So I'm not alone. Yeah. And I just walked out of there, man, feeling like like uh like there was hope.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Yeah, I know, I know that feeling. I I so I definitely so I started attending CR during the end of my first marriage and throughout the course of the divorce. And and I gotta tell you, I I was in a really low place when I came, and I was definitely in the hurt category at that time. And so, you know, I can definitely relate, you know, being able to walk in there and just talk about my fears and my my sadness and and everything that's going on and not feel judged and and the sins I was struggling with, the the the sinful thoughts, the sinful actions I was I was doing, and just being able to kind of unload that stuff and and not feel judged and just have people there who could just empathize and and know where I was at and just just just encourage. And so, yeah, I can relate and and I'd say CR definitely was something God used to to help me, you know, recover.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

It's another one of those foundition foundation builders where you know you get used to telling people that that you struggle. And and and in doing that, you're discipling others. You're like, no, this isn't about perfection. This is this is about change. And this is about grace, you know. Yeah. A free gift that God has given you. And and it's not about perfection at all. Not at all. You get hung up on having to do everything just right and just perfect in a certain way. And, you know, no. No, you just move forward. You listen and move and and count on the grace of God. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So it's a pride issue. When you think about it, in order for you to be a Christian, you have to humble yourself and admit to God, like, oh yeah, I don't have this, actually. I need more. But then we live, I say we, I think at least old, I'm gonna say old church philosophy because I do think we're moving away from this, but that perfectionism is the thing. Oh yeah, I don't need grace, I just need to be perfect. And it traps a lot of people. I think a lot of people that are in CR kind of come to that recognition that it's like, oh, it's actually, you know, it's not great that I've got all these struggles, but there's other people around me that do this too. And they are learning how to walk in grace and accept that grace from God. And and I I don't even think I fully understand that concept. We've talked, Charlie and I have talked about that before because that's definitely a struggle for me.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

But, you know, together in the rooms, we're learning what it's like to take accountability for what we do and accept that grace and keep coming back because we're we still don't have it perfect. But I just think that that's so cool. Like kind of hearing that chronologic chronologic. I cannot say that word chronology. Chronology. Is that it? I think so. Is that a word? I'm I'm leaving.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

I'm gonna bet on that one.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

We'll go with that, but it's a word.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

I like I like what you said too, Sam, about it being like a practice, like practicing the idea of of revealing your true self. I I love that idea that it's because I think our our basic natural instinct is to hide our shame, hide the things that we're embarrassed of, the bad things we've done. And when you do it, so maybe you know, you start out, you come to see our like I remember my first time. I I came and I didn't really say much. I was just too vulnerable. I was too, I didn't, I was too worried about you know what others would think a bit of that. And then I just I was unready, I was not ready to talk. And then I the next week I came back and and and I shared a little bit more, and and just the more I revealed, and it's like you you you really feel a little bit and you say, okay, I I survived that. So I can do a little bit more and I can reveal a little bit more. And I think you're right, that develops to like a comfort with recognizing and and acknowledging, hey, I'm not perfect. Hey, I I I've got a lot of work to do here, and I'm gonna keep keep doing it, and I'm gonna I'm gonna take one more step forward. And I I think that's a really cool idea. And I think that's really something that's not really like talked about the practice of confession. It's just that's kind of what it is, is confession and and kind of using that to and then and then I I feel like that's like maybe it helps us to kind of not that he can't see what whatever we've done, but it kind of helps us to reveal ourselves to God, like as though you know God give like like give him not permission, I guess, is is a weird word to say, but but give him just just reveal ourselves to God in that way and let let and let us ourselves be vulnerable before God. And and so I think that's that's pretty that's a really cool thought, yeah, that idea.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

So and there and then there's people you know around us that uh that are struggling with the same things. And they might think that we've got it all together. Which I d I doubt they think I've got it all together. But there's probably some people that they think that have it all together. Yeah. So I just feel like that I, you know, based on what I've been through, I don't want to be that guy that's got it all together. I want to be that guy that's vulnerable and that is leading others to Christ. It's okay. I mean, it's not okay to sin, but we make mistakes and none, there's none righteous. Yeah. So I just I just is something I believe in.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Well, and I think that at least Sam, I've heard you kind of speak to this too. Like whenever you think other people are perfect, they become untouchable. Right. But whenever we reveal, like, okay, yeah, actually I don't have it all together, you become relatable and you do have that foothold where you can help other people and you can show them like this is how Christ worked in my life. I mean, that's what we're doing here on this podcast is we're having people come forward and like talk about this stuff because it's really cool whenever you think about like, well, this is the path that God took with me, or this is where he's still leading me. It's just, I don't know. It's cool. I think another thing I wanted to say too is I just think it's so interesting. I think a lot of people come into CR very like reserved and they're kind of scared to talk, but Sam was like busting the doors open, like, nah, I need to know. This is not a secret. I am here for one thing. I just think that's so cool that you came in like arms open, like, whatever you guys got, like I need it.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

And it was my wife, you know, because I I thought that I thought it was over, you know, and and I had to get this thing fixed. I had to. So she's the she's the pivot point here. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's Christ. All these things leading to this. I mean this church, CR, Mark, you know, all the dots. Just it's just amazing. And my my so much was learned in this. And so many sleepless nights starting out, so much worry walking. That was the first time that I I fasted. I fasted 21 days. I mean, that's this is how important this is to me. This is everything. This is my friend, my only friend. It was so bad that that uh it felt like, you know, Mike introduced me to a counselor here at High Point. Just another thing that High Point has to help people, you know, and and how you know, God led me here. And and I I feel it felt like I was paying somebody just to just to have somebody to talk to about the it that's how bad that I had pulled away from everybody, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

So it sounds like you'd kind of really isolated yourself. Yeah. So that's kind of we've kind of kind of been circling around this idea of connection with people. And and so that so that was a struggle with you, and you say that was that kind of stemmed from that the whole church hurt. Was there anything else? And and maybe, you know, you know, the men you mentioned the drinking, and was that all kind of what what was it that made it so hard to connect with with people for you? Is it is there anything else that's Oh, there's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

I don't know. Uh going back young, young, you know, a lot when I was younger, um you know, the pastors back then were Hellfire and Brimstone, you know, kind of preachers, and and there was just a lot of little things. I can remember my mom, you know, she was a Sunday school teacher at the time, and I don't know what happened, but but something happened and she didn't show up to teach um Sunday school. And the pastor uh got upset with her because you know, she should have told somebody. And and I feel like the pastor's right, you know, but but she didn't. Something went wrong. I can't remember exactly. But what I do remember is him skipping steps, skipping biblical steps. One is going to her right up front. She's she's the one that he needs to talk to. And then then the second would be a smaller group of people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Matthew 18, right? We just read that.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah. But he skipped over all that and he went straight to the church, right in front of the church, right in front of everybody. And it was embarrassing. It was like one one strike here out, kind of thing. That's rough. And uh, you know, my dad, he uh he made a mistake and and I thought he was perfect, you know. And he wasn't. So, you know, I had this thing to buy who who do I trust, you know. When when me and Jennifer got married, you know, it was it was said that that she uh she was pregnant. That's why we we we were getting married, but you know, wisdom reveals itself. So seven years later is when my wife got pregnant. So but there was these rumors. But the pastor says bitter, man. He uh He he didn't even sign our like marriage license. See if if if I were to I think what he was doing, and and I don't understand all of it, he was trying to make it be where we weren't really married. But you know, the covenant is not about the paper. Right. So I don't know who he was trying to fool, but or what he thought he was doing, but it it was it was void. You know, we were married that we know. But he didn't even sign the Wow. It wasn't until later until you know we had to send it back and this is like church hurt to the max.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah, yeah. A lot of confusing stuff from people that are supposed to be representing God. Right. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

I'd like to I I don't I don't hold it against him anymore, but I I I I wonder how he's liking that the heat in the shack that he's living in up in heaven. So, you know. I think I think the air conditioner is broken. He may not be on fire, but I think the air conditioner might be broken in his little shack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Well, yeah, I mean I can hearing those those stories, it sounds like an I can understand why you're not having trouble trusting and ha is and and having trouble ice in and isolating being something like a defensive kind of thing. Is that something you kind of have to kind of fight against today?

SPEAKER_02 36:17

I'm constantly putting up walls. Okay. Like, you know, uh the the wall goes before me everywhere, you know, and and and I struggle with relationships. I do, I just what if this and what if that in my mind is, you know, and you you know, you gotta hold all that stuff captive. So you gotta go for it. You gotta go for it in everything. And and and and and that's what God's teaching me in this journey is uh you just gotta let go. Yeah. Quit trying to control. You know, I'm I'm bad about trying to control the s the outcomes and situations. And and people may hurt me, and that and that's okay. It shouldn't stop me from being real, it shouldn't stop me from being myself. I would say for the most part, people don't even know who I am because because of that wall. And I'm struggling to break that thing down. I need help.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

I I I feel I feel I relate to a lot of that because you know, I think I think mine's not so much like about like not not trying to be hurt or having trouble trusting. I think for me, it's more like I I have a hard time like being the weird one who's like, hey, you want to come hang out? Or you know, I feel like that's such a weird thing to ask.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And even though we've established we're definitely weird.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yeah, we are weird for sure. But I should embrace that. But it's some there's that weirdness that's uncomfortable. It's a good word. Yeah, yeah. So I I I gotta challenge myself more to to be weird and invite people over and and and you know, engage with others and kind of take that step, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

So I think that's one of those like the effort.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

Yeah, yeah, it's the effort and like the I don't know. There's kind of you're kind of putting yourself out there. You're gonna say, hey, do you want to be my friend?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Like that's kind of a like we're not five on the planet. We're like, hey, you want to be my friend? Yeah. Now we're like, but what are you gonna do to me?

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Yeah, but I guess that is that is kind of a vulnerability, right? You're kind of putting yourself out there and you know, you there's a risk you could just be rejected, I guess. So so I guess there is some of that.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Yeah. In a sense, it's worship too, because you're following the word and you're putting yourself out there and you're loving your neighbor and you're learning learning to love and learning to give and learning it's it's it's worship too.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

So you've fairly recently started with the worship team here at High Point. I was wondering if that kind of was related to what what we're just talking about, putting yourself out there and and making yourself like not isolate, right? Is that something is that something you use to help with that?

SPEAKER_02 38:36

It is. That is a that is a crazy story in itself. You know, all this providence on top of you know, the providence that I've already talked about, there's there's this too, or the worship team. Um, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Like Charlie and I didn't even know that you sang, but like one time in CR you were up there, I was like, oh Sam can sing.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Yeah, I was very excited to see you up there. That's something, you know. I I I'd been hiding, you know, I'd given up on that part of my life too, and I'd been hiding. But there was something nagging at me about it, you know, just come on, Sam. And uh Wow. You know, the first thing that I had to even out there in the audience, I'm hiding, you know. Yeah, I've got this thing and I'm I'm quiet about it. I was wrong. I was so wrong, you know. So I have this nagging to sing to to sing on this team. I'm not good enough. You know when when I was on the other praise and worship team before the church disbanded or whatever, I uh I was struggling with my voice. I had taken some diet pills and lost a lot of weight. And it's the type of diet pill that had caused your temperature to rise.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Well, that also affects your throat. You know, all that saliva and all that is for lubrication. Wow, interesting. So it would it gotten bad to the point to where on every set that I would cough, I would just I just I was I was falling apart, man. But I'm in context, I I had one foot in the world and one foot in the church. So I I have my responsibility there too. I was not following God and I was not doing the things that I was supposed to be doing. Even then I was drinking. So and I I deserved everything I got, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

But um But did you did you deserve it? I mean, so we have consequences, right? We have consequences, but did you deserve it? Because that's kind of the idea we're circling around here. I'm gonna call you out on it.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Okay, okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

I'm gonna call you out on it because we're circling around this idea of grace. So maybe we did deserve it, but we're underneath a new authority. You're right.

unknown 40:58

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

And so we don't deserve it. God tells us that. Yeah, we're gonna have consequences for our actions on earth. That's that's what happens when you live on earth. But under the new authority of you're under the authority of God's grace. So I don't think you deserve these things. Do I think God's used them? Yeah, because you're telling us about it. But I just want to call that out.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

I said one thing and I lived a different way on purpose. So let's say it that way. Okay, I like that. So my throat was messed up and I'm coughing. I can't make it through a set. And then, you know, I'm at the same point I am now where I'm kind of kind of shy and I don't understand what worship really is. You know, I'm studying now. I'm I'm after it. Like, I mean, you may not be able to see it, but you will. I promise you, you will. Give it time. I'm I'm after I gotta know why I'm doing the thing that I'm doing. I gotta understand it. And and and that's growing on me. I'm I'm getting more and more all the time. But back then, I didn't know, and so I'm kind of reserved. I'm holding the mic down here. The worship leader's always getting on to me because I won't hold it up. I'm I'm I'm trying to trying to sing bass, you know, in a in a in a group that where it doesn't actually belong. So I'm struggling with that, and it just doesn't feel right. It's all you know, there's this thin, and oh my gosh, it was so I come here and and I just feel this snagging. But I'm like, God, what about my voice? I can't, I'm not sure I can do this because I'm coughing. I even out there, I'm trying to sing and I'm I'm coughing and and I I can't do it. I'm I'm squeaking and you know, I don't know, God. I don't know. Are you are you sure, you know? And uh I filled out one of those connection cards and I put it on there. I never heard anything. It was months. I was five or six months that went by and never heard anything. And we were having a Holy Spirit class in in this class, in this room by here. Okay Pastor Derek was leading it, and I just got brave. I said, I walked up to him, I said, Do you have to be cute to be on this worship? And he just looked at me, you know. He's like he's so graceful, you know. And hard to talk to because at the end of these classes, you know, they were just around him. Because see, he's got something to say, you know. He's he's got he's got he's got something to say. So they were always after him. And I I could barely get a word in it edgewise. I wanted to talk to him too, you know, but I could I wouldn't I'm not the kind of guy that runs over somebody to so I would just I would just walk away, you know, just leave it, not not struggle that hard. It's I'm not sure that it's worth that much. But yeah, finally I had a moment and I asked him that question, you know. He said, I don't know about that. You know. But I'll talk to Rachel and uh be cute. No, no. But anyway, they got it done. So I was supposed to audition the first night that y'all probably saw me at CR. I was supposed to audition. Uh-huh. And um the the team was singing up. On the platform and she just handed me a mic. Rachel. I did some recordings, but oh, they were awful. I sent them to her. Oh, they were terrible. I'm trying to trying to sing harmony. Yeah, I mean you you you're recording it. I it's so much different than the way you hear yourself in your ear. Oh geez, that's terrible. I'm gonna get fired for sure. And I started, you know. But um so uh she she handed me a mic and I started singing Harmony, and she just asked me after she heard, you know, and I sang a couple of songs, I think, and she just asked me, You wanna sing tonight? So it was that the very night that I auditioned, she asked me to sing on the platform. So yeah. And that's just been another thing, another um providence, another thing that that God is leading me towards. Like this worship thing. I don't, I don't get it. You know, I want to be authentic.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

So I'm I'm struggling. Like, God, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to raise my hands? Do you want me to clap? Now these are all acts of worship. Do you want me to shout? What do you want me to do? And I feel like what he's saying is is do whatever you want to do. Yeah. It's all worship. Yeah. But I don't feel like it, you know? Like in the marriage, I had to I had to act to save it.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

I had to do, I had to serve, I had to I had to do something. And then God met me. I had to sacrifice I had to love my wife like Christ loved the church. So I had to sow, I had to sow into that thing, I had to give into that thing, I had to give and give and give. And when it felt stupid almost. I felt like there's no I'm not getting anything back from this. And I and I kept giving anyway. You said you mentioned keep coming back.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

So it started to turn around just slowly. And and the worship is is the same way we you know, 70% of the guys look at pornography, right? Right. I say 95% of the guys don't understand what worship is. And you see them standing there with their hands folded, like, and then a lot of the women are a little bit further along and they're like, you know, doing their thing. So I'm learning. Yeah you know, and and and I even though I don't necessarily feel it, I act regardless. Yeah. I act, I do something, I I clap my hands, I raise my hands, I I shout, yeah, you know, whether I feel like it or not.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

And then after I've done what God told me to do, you know, that's where he meets us.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

I I've thought about that idea recently, fairly recently, like worship isn't for me. It's I'm giving my worship to God. This is for God. And and so like I I think that we tend to get out of it more once we're we're realizing that, hey, this is this is for God. This is God's told us to worship him, God's told us to sing to him. And and so like, you know, whether it's my favorite song on Sunday morning, you know, or if it's, you know, or if it's not my favorite song, or you know, I've I've I've recently in my relatively recently started raising my hands more in worship. And I won't do every song necessarily, but just you know, kind of when when the spirit's moving me and I'm I'm letting letting it go. And you know, I know there's a long time where I didn't want to do that kind of thing, and I would, I would kind of stand there. I always sing, but I was kind of I don't I don't I don't raise my hands. I don't do that. That's not me. But I don't know. I just kind of more the more I let that when that desire comes and and and take that step and let go a little bit and stop trying to to hold things in or make a reason up not to, uh I just found more I get more from worship when I'm when I'm giving it to him, when I'm when it's when it's not about me and my preferences. So I think I like I like a lot of what you're saying about you know just kind of doing it regardless and and even if you're not feeling it in the moment, but just to recognize it as as an act for for God. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Like in a quest to be authentic, like you know, I would I don't want to fake this. Yeah. So I'm waiting for this feeling, this this thing to make me move. And that's not the way it works. You know, it that's not the way it works at all. You move first.

SPEAKER_05 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

And then so yeah, I I it's not faking it till you make it, it's faith in it till you make it.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

That's a good way to do it. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Move. Do something. And and I say this, and and I'm still gonna struggle, you know, with what people think, but that's what we're called to do. And and and like I say, you don't see it now, but I guarantee you a time that that uh it's coming. I just believe it. I'm just gonna keep pushing for it. I I know I understand it better now. I know that this is what I'm called to do. So and I know a little bit more of how to do it. So Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_01 49:10

I appreciate hearing like you really invested some time into researching this and learning like what does it actually mean to worship? Because when you think about it, like you are a worship leader. You stand in front of our church, you stand in front of CR, and you are leading us in worship. You are setting an example. And it's cool for me to hear, like, okay, cool, you're not just up on the stage, like, oh, I hope my voice sounds good. I'm sure those thoughts come. I mean, of course they do. But I'm hearing from you, you're like, no, I'm actually being intentional about this and like learning what it's like to to, what did you call it? Faith in it? Faith in it instead of fake in it.

SPEAKER_05 49:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

I'm learning what this means. And that's like very reassuring for me because I'm like, oh, that is so cool to know. And I'm sure that there's other people on the worship team doing this too, but to hear it from you, you are intentionally being a leader in worship. And I just appreciate that. And you know, you may not hear that from anybody else, but I just think that's cool. That's encouraging. I know I've watched you from the main church. I watched you in CR and I have seen growth. I can't pinpoint it, but now that you're telling me this, I betcha that's what it is. I've seen slowly but surely, like maybe there was like a bit of a wall-up at first, but I think slowly you are opening up and you're you're truly you're worshiping up there. And I don't know. It's cool. We were very curious to hear your story about this because it was just so like Sam sings, and and I've just watched your, it's just it's cool. It's a cool process.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

So it's changed me in the audience too. Like when I leave that platform, I have not stopped being a leader. So I lead from the audience too. I'm singing louder now. You know, I have this confidence about me that that has changed, you know, this thing that's changed in me. Um I have to. I have to do what God has to use what God's given me. Yeah. You know, I have to. I'm so much, I wish, I wish you you could see it. You know, I'm so much different out in the audience. I just it doesn't matter where I am. I I am who God made me and I have to be that. And it's like I I just have this urge, you know, to to walk over those walls that I've built in my life, the fear, the the reluctance and all that.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

I mean, yeah, you know, so it's amazing. I like what you said about faith until you make it. I feel like that's a good principle for not just worship, but like just walking with with Christ in general, because I think I think for me, you know, when I was younger in my faith, like a young kid, I would, you know, get a big, like a real big feeling inside, you know, with a good worship service or hear maybe a message that was really moved me in some way, and I'd have this feeling of being close with God. But then other days I wouldn't. I'd be like, oh, what's going on? And I'd feel like, oh, am I really saved? Am I really, you know, I'd have all these questions like, is my what's going on today? Is God not near today? Is is is am I, you know, and so I think what you're saying, faith it till you make it, like that's like that's kind of what we have to do, like in those moments. Like it's not about how we feel, right? It's the truth that God has revealed to us that He's revealing to us. That's when it becomes a sacrifice of price.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Regardless of how you feel, you're still doing what God told you to do.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

I like this.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

I like it too, yeah. So I think I think that's a really good, a good uh thing to like focus on is you know, for for not just in worship, but in just our daily walk with God, just you know, we we're not gonna have we're gonna have days when we don't feel like it. And it might be seasons when we don't feel like it because of circumstances or things in the world or just busyness or whatever it might be. And I think we just have to, you know, cling to the promises of God and not right and not base it on how we feel because our feelings are fickle and they don't they're not trustworthy. So I think that's uh that's uh a good a good principle to live by in a lot of ways. I've really appreciated you coming in, Sam. This has been a great conversation. I think it's time now for our tag out segment. So this is where we give one sentence takeaway from the conversation, and our guest guest gives a final uh encouragement to her uh so we're gonna we're gonna say each of us, Valerie and I are gonna say just kind of a one sense kind of summary of the thing, and then we're gonna give you a chance, Sam, to kind of give uh just a last thought to the audience, or it's whether it's encouragement or or something of truth that you want to share and make sure that that you have communicated to the two audience. So I'd say my tag out, it's kind of hard because I there's a couple couple good pieces here. I'm gonna go back to one earlier. Okay. But I I like that idea of practicing confession and and practicing being vulnerable. I just like how I like that idea of like we don't have to like we all want to put up a wall, we all want to put up a show and and not reveal ourselves. And it just takes that that step, that practice, and and the more you do it, the more natural it becomes to to not hold yourself in a position of pride or or outward appearances, not be the white whitewashed tune. I think that's that's the whole idea is we're not we're not painting the outside looking good. We're revealing the mess on the inside and then letting God clean that up. I think that's that's really a a good thing to practice. And I that that's my that's my tag out.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Yeah. You know, I think a lot of what you've said today, Sam, has challenged me personally. I think our brains might work a little bit on the same wavelength because uh like perfectionism is certainly a thing for me, like concerned about what other people think, pride is a huge thing for me. Like, and I heard a lot of those themes today. So whenever I was thinking about the tag out segment, I was like, I feel like I feel like vulnerability is what kept coming to my mind, like being vulnerable, putting my pride aside, remembering God's grace, that God's my identity. And I I do live in, I said this, but the authority of his grace, it's a lot easier for me to call people out than to do it myself, just so you know. But those things are what my mind keeps circulating around. And I'm like, man, like now I'm gonna be thinking about this. Like Sunday when we we come into worship, I'm gonna be thinking about this, like, oh, I have, I'm gonna have to humble myself here because I think it is a humbling process. And it doesn't matter if I feel like it. It doesn't matter if I'm worried what other people are gonna think. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this because God's my savior. And and I don't know, you're I think your words are gonna be circulating in my mind of this whole like, I gotta be vulnerable and I gotta do this. I don't know. I feel very challenged after today. I also feel a little all over the place on my tag out segment. I'm like, I think I'm still circulating what the concept is, but that's what it's coming back to is like remembering to be vulnerable and that this is for God. It's not for other people. I guess you could sum it up like that. Yeah, yeah, it's not for other people.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

I like that. All right, Sam. So anything you'd like to say to close out the show?

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Yep. Um So this this this whole thing is uh not about perfection at all. You know, all things work together for good for those in Christ. The whole the whole thing. We don't have to hide, we don't have to worry, we don't have to you know just just let go. You know, be real, be what God created us to be and and uh and trust in Him for all those hard parts. Every everything that is worthwhile to start off with has a little segment, a little portion of uncomfortableness that we have to work through before we get to where God is leading us. Go for it. That's my encouragement. And keep coming back. It's not gonna feel good, it's gonna feel like it's broken, it's gonna feel like you didn't do it right, it's gonna feel like all that nobody liked that, you know. And you don't even know. You haven't asked the question, you you're assuming you know the enemy is telling you this garbage.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

You know, and and just go for it and keep coming back. And some people's go for it is a little slower than others, and that's okay. Yeah, you know, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

So we really appreciate you coming on here, Sam. This has been awesome and very challenging, as I said. So we we do appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

So, audience, if if you enjoyed today's episode and you appreciate that, Sam come on, you know, share this with someone who might need it. And if you're interested in sharing your testimony with us, you can email us at testimony tagteam at gmail.com. Uh, this has been the testimony tag team.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

And we're tagging out.