SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Flatcast, the podcast where we explore the journeys behind bold leadership, innovation, and impact. This is where we talk real career journeys, the bold moves that many pivots, the podcast that no one could unlike this, and the bold that changed everything. We're sitting down with leaders, innovators, and bold breakers who figure it out by doing the work, learning the lessons, the back ignoring the math altogether. If you're navigating leadership, healthcare, or just trying to figure out what's next without losing your mind, you're in the right place. So that's just your healthcare flight path.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Flight Path presented by Bluebird Leaders. Today we have Heather Zoon who is coming to us from Colorado, correct? Yes. Where exactly in Colorado?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

In Denver.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

And it is May 6th and it is snowing. And then they're home for a snow day. For a snow day?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I just talked to somebody else who's closer to Fort Collins like an hour ago, and he was like, it's snowing. And I was like, you can keep it because that sounds terrible. Um, so yes, uh, welcome. Uh Bluebird is going to do an event in Colorado in 27. So we'll keep that a little bit under wraps because we're still narrowing down the location, but we're coming back to you. Um, why don't you tell us a little bit uh about what you're what you do today?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Yeah, so I am a senior manager of Epic Inpatient Applications at Denver Health, uh, the Safety Net Hospital here in Denver. Um, so I have a team of analysts that kind of cover the full spectrum of clinical applications. And then I am also president-elect of the Nursing Informatics Association, which is a national um nursing professional organization. And we have about 3,000 members and we get together for a national conference every year. And our national conference next year, when I will be president, will be in San Francisco um March 11th through the 13th. So I'm doing a lot of preparation for that as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

All right. Well, that's you jumped right to it. So Bluebird is actually going to be part of that next year. Um, why don't you tell us a little bit, you know, dig in a little bit more about the conference. So what do you do? What's the you know, high-level agenda, what do people look forward to the most? Um, all that stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

So we um have a number of great keynotes that we've lined up. I don't necessarily want to share who they are, but we're focused on um kind of leaders in nursing informatics at local to San Francisco. So um highlighting what they're doing there and how they're innovating, and then also a little bit of a focus on sort of the vendor side. So thinking about how nurses are involved in differing technology companies and how they keep their voices heard and sort of represent us as a community of nurses in the technology space, but then also kind of advocating for how we on the um hospital side or or clinic side can be advocating for our staff when uh evaluating new technologies. So that's kind of one big focus that we have. We have um a panel of nurses that we we hope the abstract gets accepted, but a panel of nurses that are nurse leaders in technology companies. So that'll be really great. And then my other focus is um I tried to promote a number of people to submit abstracts that um are from more interdisciplinary standpoints. I think one of the things that I have really appreciated about being in Bluebirds is sort of I'm I feel like I'm getting a much wider lens of spectrum in healthcare IT. Um and in the nursing compute community, sometimes we get really narrowly focused on nursing, but as we all know, it's so inner body. Yeah, we're all so overlapping. And so um we do have a panel of kind of representing different voices in informatics. So thinking about pharmacy, physicians, nursing, um, and then our our colleagues that have been really embedded in healthcare IT but don't have a clinical background. And how do we kind of work together and and hear those voices and and think of each other, you know, and advocate for each other?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Excuse me. Yeah, I think it's happening more, or I enjoy seeing it happen more where you know we first installed EHRs and we didn't really ask you all what you cared about it. It was just like, here, figure out how to use it and uh also take care of the patient and put a smile on your face at the same time. Thank you. And I'll like walk away into our closed, like lockdown, you know, office by the morgue. But I, you know, I think um it's changing. And and so I think the role of the CIO has changed. I think the role of the organizations have changed. We also have so much IT everywhere that we really need to hear the people on the ground's opinions on before we go and change stuff. So these steering committees and everything that you know people might roll their eyes at sometimes. It's like it's so needed. And it also is so needed just to help with the change management, right? That's you bring on the new software nor tool, and it's like if they heard about it six months ago when you started kind of talking about it, it would, you know, and then brought them along, it might be better um accepted, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Are you all um on the nursing front hearing just as much as AI as I am? Are you using ambient listening? Uh what other like AI, you know, uh tools would you just love to see, even if it's not even created yet? What do you guys chat about? Do you hate it?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah, I we somewhere in between. We on the nursing side, both from my Denver Health lens and my ANIA lens, we're hearing so much about it. Um I think from more of the national level, what we're sort of looking at is literacy in AI and making sure that our frontline clinicians actually understand what it means and and how they're interacting with it, because you have to be informed consumers in order to and and understand, kind of trying to promote the understanding that uh your your clinical judgment is not being replaced by these tools. These are tools, it's clinical decision support, right? And so we're we're really trying to make sure that we do education um and get standards for education out there, um, both at the academic level, but then also for sort of continuing education. And then um at my facility, we are we are sort of as a safety net, we we don't have as much funding um for those kinds of things. So we have we have ambient listening for our clinic providers, but we don't have any of those tools yet for nursing. So um we are starting to explore some of that um based on what our EHR vendor has available. Um, but we are really, I think our facility on the provider side, and then it's going to be on the nursing side too, is really focused on validating the tools. I think that's kind of the the key to like you taught what you kind of mentioned previously, we're being bombarded with so much. It's kind of like we need we need clinicians to validate the tools to ensure that they are appropriate and actually beneficial. Because if they're not beneficial, then it's sort of like, oh, you know, wasting time and money. So um, how do we teach people now how to validate tools and take the time to validate them and measure um the benefits?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

So yeah, I I think it's gonna be some changing of the guard too, right? In terms of generation and what the younger crowd of clinicians are going to want or expect. I I'm doing some advisory work for an organization here on the East Coast, and we we had a whole conversation this morning actually, about how what if the ambient listening, and I'm sure it's happening some, you know, somewhere, is just giving the provider a whole up note of like, and and this is what you usually say, this is what I heard you say, and this is what I suggest that you use with the codes that you should use, right? Yeah, but but those providers are used to just going in the microphone for three minutes and then hitting accept. So now, like you're saying, has to change their whole mind frame. Now they actually are are reading what AI has generated, which I could actually see could take them a little bit longer than just going boom right into a microphone quick and then knowing what they said is is true. So yeah, it's a whole mind, it's a whole mind switch, 180. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

And and we are a teaching facility, so you have to think about teaching um and and teaching the next generation of clinicians not to be reliant on these things. Um, you know, we're we're to the point where it's like even even my generation of nurses are when you talk about paper charting, we're like, oh no, what up? Oh no, yeah. Yeah. And so so imagine now the next generation coming in with all these AI tools. How do you then teach them this is how you would do this without those tools? You know?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, because it's not when the next hack's gonna happen or the downtime, like it will happen at some point, and you're gonna have, yeah, no, um, it's a it's a great call out, even more with the AI as it the next five years, you're gonna become even more even more reliant on it. Um, what what else is happening in nursing aside from AI and IT? Like, is there any new cool like tool or product that is like like really helping? Even if it's like, I don't know, I'm not clinical, right? So like a new syringe came out or a new glove. Like what's what yeah, it's like the big shiny tool that that nurses are like either excited about or or want.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

I think um, and and this isn't necessarily new as of right this moment, but it's been really ramped up in the last couple of years is is virtual nursing. So um finding ways to um uh make the the day-to-day efficiency better for our bedside nurses. Um, and also I I've understood that we see some better clinical outcomes by having the virtual nursing model because you have an ICU nurse sitting, you know, watching very closely how vitals are looking and you know, watching kind of our predictive model alerts to assess how accurate they are, to sort of trigger that cascade, then um, versus relying on the bedside ICU nurse to be like, you know, that head in the weeds while also doing direct patient care. So um that's something that we also are starting to look at for our facility, aren't quite there yet, but I know that there are a that is something that we continue to talk about and continue to hear about. And it's an interesting um uh it's also an interesting place for nurses to go. You know, when I think about nursing and how uh most people are like, oh, to be a nurse is to work in a hospital at the bedside, have six patients a day at the bedside or be in a clinic, and that's what it is to be a nurse. But we have so many different paths we can take. Um, that virtual nursing is one that I think can can kind of open things up to people and give them some different options um to still utilize their skills.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, I also just see it giving you guys a break from the bedside, right? Because that's so maybe it's a bold question or I'm opening can of worms. Do you see that now all this virtual nursing is coming and if something is triggered, right? High blood pressure, whatever it might be, it'll just message your phone or whatever you know item you have attached to your to your hip. Um, now you're gonna be expected to take on more patients because you'll be uh notified if you know something is happening virtually.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, I have not seen that actually. Um it I think is more the the evaluation that is being done uh from what I've seen has been based more on patient outcomes as well as staff satisfaction because and burnout. Um, particularly post-COVID, you know, burnout is such such a big deal that that that is the focus more than than that, um, which is great. And I hope it doesn't turn in that direction.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, I don't know why my head just like went there. I'm like, oh my god, we cannot put it in the case. It's logical.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

We did not put any more on these nurses, but is this like a way to uh oh I hope not. I hope it doesn't go that way. Yeah, yeah. Well, we didn't cover like how you got to be where you are. Like you grew you grew up and you chose nursing. What like yeah, who is like did someone or something inspire you? Like I I grew up and there's no way I would like be able to do what you all do. Um I I think I know enough clinical to be dangerous, but I will always be your IT support. But like putting IVs in and I'm like, I'll just pass out. So how did you get there? How'd you choose nursing? Tell us your story.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah. So oddly enough, I started out um actually targeting being a vet, a veterinarian, and um went down that path, you know, an undergrad and worked in animal hospitals and boarding kennels. And I kind of realized one day that I liked working with the people even more than the animals, you know, love both, but that sort of helped me sort of pivot into nursing. And I also, my aunt um is a nurse, and my grandfather on the other side of the family was a medic in the army. And so I had both of those influences there um that kind of transitioned me into nursing. And then um once I got to nursing school, I did work as a phlebotomist, so that was you know great times, great times. Um, and then in my in-between nursing school years, I did an internship and I ended up getting placed in the operating room. And I I will never forget that first day for my internship, getting my tour of the OR. And I had this look on my face where the manager was like, Are you what's wrong? Are you okay? And I'm like, I'm just so excited right now. Like I was surrounded by so much technology. I'm like, what are these machines? What are they doing? This is so cool. Um, and so that's when I knew I wanted to do surgery. So I ended up then my my most uh I got to rotate through specialties and realized heart surgery was where I wanted to be. So um I got a job, my job straight out of nursing school was at Duke in North Carolina, um, doing cardiothoracic surgery. So I learned how to circulate and scrub so I would actually be, you know, sterile at the table assisting the surgeons. Um and we were doing again, thinking about technology and innovation. It was just that place was magical.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Um I saw some crazy, crazy stuff um in a in a wonderful way, you know, what they were doing was incredible. Um so ended up moving here to Denver and worked at a community hospital here, still in heart surgery. And uh, that was my turning point of kind of realizing um we had a homegrown EHR at Duke at the time. And then we had um the older version of Medit, uh, not the oldest, but one of the older versions of Meditine. Not the Pac, not the Pac-Man time, but not the Pac-No, not the Pac-Man, but the next one. Um, and in both of those spaces, I realized I had kind of become the person that all the nurses were coming to for how to efficiently use the EHR. What are the shortcuts? What's the most efficient way to kind of do my charting so that I don't spend half my day doing it? And that was when I kind of realized, oh, this is the the blending, right? You know, technology, really enthusiastic about that. But then also making things more efficient for nurses was a a big deal for me. So that's when I started my master's in nursing informatics here at CU around that time, and that sort of transitioned me um out of the OR. Um, I had a short stint at uh Catholic Health Initiatives working with um critical access hospitals and teaching them about meaningful use and how they're they were doing that. So that was very short. Um then I got hired here at Denver Health um to be on their implementation team. Um so started there and um worked as an optime analyst. So I sort of, you know, blended the two and then um got promoted into leadership about five years ago. So that's that's my my path.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

What what's like one surgery that like stood out that you know while you were there in the OR that you're like, oh my god, uh I don't know two. Okay. I have two. I know everybody always has one that's in yeah. All right, go.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

So what it got. So I had my my favorite thing to do to scrub was um ventricular assist devices. So it's people with heart failure, and we would go in and put this pump in inside their chest that literally would circulate their blood for them. Um I just there was something about some the mechanics of sort of preparing the devices and then seeing how they worked that just really was like amazing to me. Um so those and and my honestly, my favorite surgeon was the one that did them the most frequently. So so I was, you know, it was a lot of different things. And then um so that was my favorite, and then the most amazing thing I saw was a heart, so they call it a block. So it's a heart and lung transplant at the same time. So this person had a heart, lung, and liver transplant in one surgery. Like a whole body. This is crazy. Yeah, so I literally like you know, we put them on bypass and or whatever at the time. Yeah, and like the heart and lungs were out of the body. So imagine seeing just it was uh it's it's it's crazy. So that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Like, I mean, when I stop and think, I'm like, okay, yeah, we're doing it, but then you're explaining it. I'm like, holy shit, like we're do, like we're doing that. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And then that person, like, uh are they okay, or you don't you you might not even know?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

I I don't I don't know, but yeah, I believe I mean I know that they that procedure went well when it happened, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

It's yeah, it yeah, it's it's uh it's wild. It's wild that I know uh my um like a silly story, but my I had a c-section for my first uh my oldest, my Linny. And um I went in and you know, they had like the drape and the OR lights are so and I'm nervous, right? New mom, so my eyes are closed, and like yeah, just trying to like stay calm. And they're doing the C section thing. And I opened my eyes, and my husband is like leaning over and he's like, This is awesome. And I'm like, now my heart and lungs were not like lifted out of the body, but like a lot was like. You know, coming up. And I'm like, oh my God, you're crazy. And they thought he was gonna pass out, but uh he did not. So um yeah, I guess he should be a surgeon in his next life. Yeah, it's crazy. So um, well, anything else you want to to add? I have I do have to ask you what your superpower is, which is what we you know always uh the superpower, what are you giving back? You know, I know you do a lot with your organization, but um what would be your superpower that you're you know bringing to bluebird leaders?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

I think, you know, I I I hear a lot of inspiring stories from women, and I think what what comes to mind, and this is it's maybe a little selfish, but I feel like my superpower is my my energy and my ability to kind of track on a lot of different things. Um I I finished my doctorate when I I did my doctorate while working full time and had my daughter in that same time. So well, so I had a one-year-old at like her life, you know, zero to one that first year was the year that I basically did my thesis. So so you think about while working full time, and sometimes I think back to that and I'm like, huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

What was I thinking?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

And and people are like, how? And I'm like, I don't know. But I think that that points to the superpower, which is sort of I I thrive on having a a number of things and and keeping them um going. And uh I think that allows me to really be out there for our community and and helping and you know reaching out to people because I sort of can keep it all there, you know. Um yeah, so yeah, so yeah, I I I yes, I'm I know you can I get told that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

How do you do all this? Or I have a new uh administrative assistant, she's just like, oh my god, your calendar, you know. Um yeah, I get it. But then it's just you're not giving back.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yeah, to thrive on it versus getting overwhelmed by it is its own superpower, right? Right, right. If I don't have enough, I'm kind of then I go into like sloth mode. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Like 100%. Or I'm not traveling for the month of May. And I know by May 31st, I know, right? You'll be I'm gonna be like, when's my next? Um twitching. Um, but but yeah, I I don't know. For me, I I love what I do and I love helping other people and everybody soar and being that like epic connector. Um so yeah, like you. Same. Well, thanks so much for your time. Thanks for being on the podcast. Can't wait to see you soon.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yes, thank you so much.