FLIGHT PATH
Welcome to Flight Path — where career paths aren’t linear, leadership isn’t boring, and pivots are basically a superpower. I’m Rebecca Woods. Let’s take off.
FLIGHT PATH
Heather Zuhn
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Rebecca gets to chance to catch up with longtime Bluebird member Heather Zuhn
Welcome to Flight Path, the podcast where we explore the journeys behind bold leadership, innovation, and lasting impact. Each episode we sit down with leaders, innovators, and rule breakers who built their success by doing the work, learning the lessons, and sometimes ignoring the map altogether. Whether you're navigating leadership, healthcare, technology, entrepreneurship, or simply trying to figure out what without losing your mind, you're the right place. Before we take flight, we'd like to thank our sponsor. Helping business, professors, documentary. Get ready for stories. It's like adjustment. Welcome aboard. It's flight path.
SPEAKER_02Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Flight Path presented by Bluebird Leaders. Today we have Heather Zoon, who is coming to us from Colorado, correct? Yes. Where exactly in Colorado?
SPEAKER_01In Denver.
SPEAKER_02Okay, awesome. Uh welcome. Uh Bluebird is gonna do an event in Colorado in 27, so we'll keep that a little bit under wraps because we're still narrowing down the location, but we're coming back to you. Um why don't you tell us a little bit uh about what you're what you do today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I am a senior manager of epic inpatient applications at Denver Health, uh, the Safety Net Hospital here in Denver. Um, so I have a team of analysts that kind of cover the full spectrum of clinical applications. And then I am also president-elect of the Nursing Informatics Association, which is a national um nursing professional organization. And we have about 3,000 members and we get together for a national conference every year. And our national conference next year, when I will be president, will be in San Francisco um March 11th through the 13th. So I'm doing a lot of preparation for that as well.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, that's you jumped right to it. So Bluebird is actually going to be part of that next year. Um, why don't you tell us a little bit, you know, dig in a little bit more about the conference. What do you do? What's the, you know, high-level agenda? What do people look forward to the most? Um, all that stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we um have a number of great keynotes that we've lined up. I don't necessarily want to share who they are, but we're focused on um kind of leaders in nursing informatics at local to San Francisco. So um highlighting what they're doing there and how they're innovating, and then also a little bit of a focus on sort of the vendor side. So thinking about how nurses are involved in differing technology companies and how they keep their voices heard and and sort of represent us as a community of nurses in the technology space, but then also kind of advocating for how we on the um hospital side or or clinic side can be advocating for our staff when uh evaluating new technologies. So that's kind of one big focus that we have. We have um a panel of nurses that we we hope the abstract gets accepted, but a panel of nurses that are nurse leaders in technology companies. So that'll be really great. And then my other focus is um I tried to promote a number of people to submit abstracts that um are from more interdisciplinary standpoints. I think one of the things that I have really appreciated about being in Bluebirds is sort of I'm I feel like I'm getting a much wider lens of spectrum in healthcare IT. Um and in the nursing compute community, sometimes we get really narrowly focused on nursing, but as we all know, it's so energized. Yeah, we're all so overlapping. And so um we do have a panel of kind of representing different voices in informatics. So thinking about pharmacy, physicians, nursing, um, and then our colleagues that have been really embedded in healthcare IT but don't have a clinical background. And how do we kind of work together and and hear those voices and and think of each other, you know, and advocate for each other.
SPEAKER_02Excuse me. Yeah, I think it's happening more, or I enjoyed seeing it happen more where you know we first installed EHRs and we didn't really ask you all what you cared about it. It was just like, here, figure out how to use it and uh also take care of the patient and put a smile on your face at the same time. Thank you. And I'll IT people and like walk away into our closed, like lockdown, you know, office by the morgue. But I, you know, I think it's um it's changing. And and so I think the role of the CIO has changed. I think the role of the organizations have changed. We also have so much IT everywhere that we really need to hear the people on the ground's opinions on before we go and change stuff. So these steering committees and everything that you know people might roll their eyes at sometimes. It's like it's so needed. And it also is so needed just to help with the change management, right? That's you bring on a new software nor tool, and it's like if they heard about it six months ago when you started kind of talking about it, it would, you know, and then brought them along, it might be better um accepted, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Are you all um on the nursing front hearing just as much as AI as I am? Are you using ambient listening? Uh, what other like AI, you know, uh tools would you just love to see, even if it's not even created yet? What do you guys chat about? Do you hate that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I we somewhere in between. We on the nursing side, both from my Denver Health lens and my ANIA lens, we're hearing so much about it. Um, I think from more of the national level, what we're sort of looking at is literacy in AI and making sure that our frontline clinicians actually understand what it means and and how they're interacting with it, because you have to be informed consumers in order to and and understand, kind of trying to promote the understanding that your your clinical judgment is not being replaced by these tools. These are tools, it's clinical decision support, right? And so we're we're really trying to make sure that we do education um and get standards for education out there, um, both at the academic level, but then also for sort of continuing education. And then um at my facility, we are we are sort of as a safety net, we we don't have as much funding um for those kinds of things. So we have we have ambient listening for our clinic providers, but we don't have any of those tools yet for nursing. So um we are starting to explore some of that um based on what our EHR vendor has available. Um, but we are really, I think our facility on the provider side, and then it's going to be on the nursing side too, is really focused on validating the tools. I think that's kind of the the key to like you taught what you kind of mentioned previously, we're being bombarded with so much. It's kind of like we need we need clinicians to validate the tools to ensure that they are appropriate and actually beneficial. Because if they're not beneficial, then it's sort of like, oh, you know, wasting time and money. So um, how do we teach people now how to validate tools and take the time to validate them and measure um the benefits?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I I think it's gonna be some changing of the guard too, right? In terms of generation and what the younger crowd of clinicians are going to want or expect. I I'm doing some advisory work for an organization here on the East Coast, and we we had a whole conversation this morning actually, about how what if the ambient listening, and I'm sure it's happening some, you know, somewhere, is just giving the provider a whole up note of like, and and this is what you usually say, this is what I heard you say, and this is what I suggest that you use with the codes that you should use, right? Yeah, but but those providers are used to just going in the microphone for three minutes and then hitting accept. So now, like you're saying, has to change their whole mind frame. Now they actually are are reading what AI has generated, which I could actually see could take them a little bit longer than just going boom right into a microphone quick and then knowing what they said is is true. So yeah, it's a whole mind, it's a whole mind switch, 180.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and we are a teaching facility, so you have to think about teaching um and and teaching the next generation of clinicians not to be reliant on these things. Um, you know, we're we're to the point where it's like even even my generation of nurses are when you talk about paper charting, we're like, oh no, what up? Oh no. So yeah. And so so imagine now the next generation coming in with all these AI tools. How do you then teach them this is how you would do this without those tools? You know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because it's not when the next hack's gonna happen or the downtime, like it will happen at some point, and you're gonna have, yeah, no, um, it's a it's a great call-out, even more with the AI as it the next five years you're gonna become even more even more reliant on it. Um, what what else is happening in nursing aside from AI and IT? Like, is there any new cool like tool or product that is like like really helping, even if it's like, I don't know, I'm not clinical, right? So like a new syringe came out or a new glove, like what's what yeah, it's like the big shiny tool that that nurses are like either excited about or or want.
SPEAKER_01I think um, and and this isn't necessarily new as of right this moment, but it's been really ramped up in the last couple of years is is virtual nursing. So um finding ways to um uh uh make the the day-to-day efficiency better for our bedside nurses. Um, and also I I've understood that we see some better clinical outcomes by having the virtual nursing model because you have an ICU nurse sitting, you know, watching very closely how vitals are looking and you know, watching kind of our predictive model alerts to assess how accurate they are, to sort of trigger that cascade, then um, versus relying on the bedside ICU nurse to be like, you know, that head in the weeds while also doing direct patient care. So um that's something that we also are starting to look at for our facility, aren't quite there yet, but I know that there are a that is something that we continue to talk about and continue to hear about. And it's an interesting um uh it's also an interesting place for nurses to go. You know, when I think about nursing and how most people are like, oh, to be a nurse is to work in a hospital, have six patients a day at the bedside or be in a clinic, and that's what it is to be a nurse. But we have so many different paths we can take. Um, that virtual nursing is one that I think can can kind of open things up to people and give them some different options um to still utilize their skills.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I also just see it giving you guys a break from the bedside, right? Because that's so maybe it's a bold question or I'm opening can of worms. Do you see that now all this virtual nursing is coming and if something is triggered, right? High blood pressure, whatever it might be, it'll just message your phone or whatever you know item you have attached to your to your hip. Um, now you're gonna be expected to take on more patients because you'll be uh notified if you know something is happening virtually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have not seen that actually. Um it I think is more the the evaluation that is being done uh from what I've seen has been based more on patient outcomes as well as staff satisfaction because and burnout. Um, particularly post-COVID, you know, burnout is such such a big deal that that that is the focus more than than that, um, which is great. And I hope it doesn't turn in that direction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know why my head just like went there. I'm like, oh god, we cannot put it. It's logical. Yeah. We cannot put any more on these nurses, but is this like a way to uh oh I hope not. I hope it doesn't go that way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we didn't cover like how you got to be where you are. Like you grew you grew up and you chose nursing. What like yeah, who is like did someone or something inspire you? Like I I grew up and there's no way I would like be able to do what you all do. Um I I think I know enough clinical to be dangerous, but I will always be your IT support. But like putting IVs in and I'm like, I'll just pass out. So how did you get there? How'd you choose nursing? I'll um tell us your story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So oddly enough, I started out um actually targeting being a vet, a veterinarian, and um went down that path, you know, in undergrad and worked in animal hospitals and boarding kennels. And I kind of realized one day that I liked working with the people even more than the animals, you know, love both, but that sort of helped me sort of pivot into nursing. And I also my aunt um is a nurse, and my grandfather on the other side of the family was a medic in the army. And so I had both of those influences there um that kind of transitioned me into nursing. And then um at once I got to nursing school, I did work as a phlebotomist, so that was, you know, great times, great times. Um, and then in my in-between nursing school years, I did an internship and I ended up getting placed in the operating room. And I I will never forget that first day for my internship, getting my tour of the OR. And I had this look on my face where the manager was like, Are you what's wrong? Are you okay? And I'm like, I'm just so excited right now. Like I love, I was surrounded by so much technology. I'm like, what are these machines? What are they doing? This is so cool. Um, and so that's when I knew I wanted to do surgery. So I ended up then my my most uh I got to rotate through specialties and realized heart surgery was where I wanted to be. So um I got a job, my job straight out of nursing school was at Duke in North Carolina, um doing cardiothoracic surgery. So I learned how to circulate and scrub so I would actually be, you know, sterile at the table assisting the surgeons. Um and we were doing again, thinking about technology and innovation. It was just that place was magical. Um I saw some crazy, crazy stuff um in a in a wonderful way, you know, what they were doing was incredible. Um so ended up moving here to Denver and worked at a community hospital here, still in heart surgery. And uh that was my turning point of kind of realizing um we had a homegrown EHR at Duke at the time. And then we had um the older version of Medit. Uh, not the oldest, but one of the older versions of medicine. Not the Pac, not the Pac-Man kind, but not the no, not the Pac-Man, but the next one. Um, and in both of those spaces, I realized I had kind of become the person that all the nurses were coming to for how to efficiently use the the EHR. What are the shortcuts? What's the most efficient way to kind of do my charting so that I don't spend half my day doing it? And that was when I kind of realized, oh, this is the the blending, right? You know, technology, really enthusiastic about that. But then also making things more efficient for nurses was a big deal for me. So that's when I started my master's in nursing informatics here at CU around that time. And that sort of transitioned me um out of the OR. Um I had a short stint at uh Catholic Health Initiatives working with um critical access hospitals and teaching them about meaningful use and how they're they were doing that. So that was very short. Um then I got hired at here at Denver Health um to be on their implementation team. Um so started there and um worked as an uptime analyst. So I sort of, you know, blended the two and then um got promoted into leadership about five years ago. So that's that's my my path.
SPEAKER_02What what's like one surgery that like stood out that you know while you were there in the OR that you're like, oh my god, uh I have two. Okay. I have two. I know everybody always has one that's in, yeah. All right, go on.
SPEAKER_01So I had my my favorite thing to do to scrub was um ventricular assist devices. So it's people with heart failure, and we would go in and put this pump in inside their chest that literally would circulate their blood for them. Um I just there was something about the the mechanics of sort of preparing the devices and then seeing how they worked that just really was like amazing to me. Um so those and and my honestly, my favorite surgeon was the one that did them most frequently. So so I was, you know, it was a lot of different things. And then um so that was my favorite, and then the most amazing thing I saw was a heart, so they call it a block. So it's a heart and lung transplant at the same time. So this person had a heart, lung, and liver transplant in one surgery. Like a whole body. This is crazy. Yes. So I literally like you know, we put them on bypass and or whatever at the time. Yeah, and like the heart and lungs were out of the body. So imagine seeing just that it was uh it's it's crazy, it's crazy. So that's wild.
SPEAKER_02Like, I mean, when I stop and think, I'm like, okay, yeah, we're doing it, but then you're explaining it. I'm like, holy shit, like we're do, like we're doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's crazy. And then that person, like, uh are they okay, or you don't you might not even know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't I don't know, but yeah, I believe I mean I know that they that procedure went well when it happened.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, it's yeah, it yeah, it's it's uh it's wild. It's wild. But I know uh my um like a silly story, but my I had a C-section for my first uh my oldest, my Linny. And um I went in and you know, they have like the drape and the OR lights are so and I'm nervous, right? New mom, so my eyes are closed, and like yeah, just trying to like stay calm. And they're doing the C-section thing, and I open my eyes, and my husband is like leaning over and he's like, This is awesome. And I'm like, what are you doing? And I'm like, now my heart and lungs were not like lifted out of the body, but like a lot was like you know, yeah coming up. And I'm like, oh my god, you're crazy. And they thought he was gonna pass out, but uh he did not. So um, yeah, I guess he should be a surgeon in his next life. But uh crazy so um well anything else you want to uh to add i have i do have to ask you what your superpower is which is what we you know always uh superpower what are you giving back you know i know you do a lot with your organization but um what would be your superpower that you're you know bringing to bluebird leaders I think you know I I I hear a lot of inspiring stories from women and I think what what comes to mind and this is it's maybe a little selfish but I feel like my superpower is my my energy and my ability to kind of track on a lot of different things.
SPEAKER_01Um I I finished my doctorate when I I did my doctorate while working full time and had my daughter in that same time. So well so I had a one year old at like her life you know zero to one that first year was the year that I basically did my thesis. So so you think about while working full time and sometimes I think back to that and I'm like huh what was I thinking and and people are like how and I'm like I don't know but I think that that points to the superpower which is sort of I I thrive on having a a number of things and and keeping them um going and uh I think that allows me to really be out there for our community and and helping and you know reaching out to people because I sort of I I can keep it all there, you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So so yeah I I I yes I'm I know I get it I get told that all the time how do you do all this or I have a new uh administrative assistant she's just like oh my god your calendar you know um yeah so yeah yeah I get it but then it's just getting back yeah to thrive on it versus getting overwhelmed by it is its own superpower right right right if I don't have enough I'm kind of then I go into like flock mode it's weird like 100% or I'm not traveling for the month of May and I know by May 31st I know right you'll be I'm gonna be like when's my next fight um twitching um but but yeah I I don't know for me I I love what I do and I love helping other people and everybody soar and being that like epic connector um so yeah like you same well thanks so much for your time thanks for being on the podcast can't wait to see you soon yeah thank you so much good morning and hello everybody and welcome to today's Bluebird Summer Podcast I have the distinct honor to join be joined today by Heather Nelson um Heather how's your summer going so far?
SPEAKER_04It's going great Emily I'm ready for it it's just it's time it's time to be be summer.
SPEAKER_03It is it is and I know we're about midway through I guess how we would kind of call summer not by the actual season but we're kind of almost in July which somehow we're almost halfway through the year which is amazing. I know before we officially started we talked about how many it's a little humid in a lot of places right now um being in Georgia right now it's kind of in the hundreds and humid and our ACs are working hard but man it's I don't care I love summer. I love the long light days and yes yes it's it's so nice which is amazing. What about you?
SPEAKER_04Travel this summer what is what is your summer you know um we have a a lake house here in Michigan where I'm at right now for the next few weeks to work remote and I take advantage of that and you know it's my happy place. So uh I'm here and you know I I live and work obviously in Boston for Boston Children's Hospital but um I try to get back home here in Michigan where my husband is he's retired living his best life here on the lake so it's always nice to come home and see everyone and just relax a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Definitely definitely well speaking about Boston you're hosting some of the FIFA World Cup stuff how has that been is the city just oh my gosh and I just tell you the Scots were amazing.
SPEAKER_04I'm sorry that they're out of the World Cup now they lost two games um but it was the vibe in Boston just has been amazing. All of the all of the cities and countries that are that are here are just lovely and it's just awesome. I mean Boston is already a melting pot and you know it's just always has good vibes. I mean it's tons of tourists every single day but the World Cup has just brought just more energy I think to the city and it's just it's awesome walking around downtown and just being around and just feeling it. I mean everyone is just excited and happy and it's it's amazing. I just I can't explain it.
SPEAKER_03I think every like social media video for a good week was the Scots and Bostonians together.
SPEAKER_04Oh they literally drank Boston drive like within two days they drank just about every bar drive it's amazing. It's these like these people are just amazing.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I think Boston I mean I do want to do more travel in the states so I know there's some that that may surpass it one day potentially but I think Boston is my favorite city. Anytime work travel or personal travel sends me there I'm always I'll volunteer send me to Boston I'm happy to go. It's such a beautiful downtown and then seeing the energy when the Scots were there I was like I really wish I was there oh yeah so fun.
SPEAKER_04Well all the Bostonians we all want to go to Edinburgh and we all want to go to Scotland. I mean you know it's just and so our mayor did um uh reach out to to Scotland and we are now sister cities between Boston and Edinburgh so it's like official because like they just made such an impact.
SPEAKER_03So it was just the perfect blend. It was so fun I love that well you kind of already answered this question but what's your summer personality beach mountain lake city it sounds like you have a good lake definitely like I'm a lake girl I've got my lake hair don't care um you know growing up in Michigan especially in western Michigan I grew up super close to lake lake Michigan so ever since you know I can remember you know going to the beach going to Lake Michigan um was just a thing you know growing up in high school you just pack a car full of people and hang out at the lake um you know boating pontooning like it's just it's just our it's just our gig here and I just love it.
SPEAKER_04It's just I'm a Pisces so water I have to be by water.
SPEAKER_03So I love that I always say like I love lake activities and also a little peace of mind that most likely there's not a shark in there.
SPEAKER_04Definitely no sharks no sharks weeds yes but no sharks yeah exactly I love that well let's go down memory lane a little bit um with your career what was your first job well you know being a Gen XR obviously babysitting you know comes to mind you know uh how they allowed a 12 year old you know with an infant and you know three kids under five for you know three bucks an hour but um my first like real job I guess would be at the local pizza hut I was a waitress at the local pizza hut where they served beer and pitchers and you know like all the things and right um but yeah yeah me and my friend Janine we uh we were Pizza Hut waitresses together.
SPEAKER_03I love that I feel like I have so many good Pizza Hut memories growing up you know after sporting games you go it was when it was obviously like the actual shape of the restaurant.
SPEAKER_04Right absolutely like you could do summer reading club there and get excited pan pizza yes yes I love I love that so hopefully I don't know hopefully something like that exists one day when we have kids because I feel like that was fun fun memory I love that now what advice would you give either your younger self or other young individuals going into the healthcare and technology industry you know I am so fascinated with administrative fellows that whole program um many hospitals especially um academic medical centers have admin fellows who are you know either just wrapping up their MBAs or their MHAs and they want to get into healthcare administration and they do a fellowship for a year and most of them you know we had them at UChicago medicine when I was there and um obviously we have them here at Boston Children's I wish when I was early in my career like transitioning you know into IT working on my master's my MHA that I had applied for that just because you get so much insight into hospital operations and being a CIO or being in healthcare IT understanding operations is so critical and I wish I I wish I would have known about that um because I think I would have done well in it. And also I always tell the fellows please at some point a fellow is going to want to be in IT and not Ozzy you know so I I really would encourage um would encourage folks to you know if you are an admin fellow like take a look at healthcare IT I mean the role of the CIO and the role of IT in in health systems has definitely evolved and we're being seen more as a strategic partner not just an order taker so um I would love to see you know more folks working on their MBAs and MHAs to think about you know the the technology field and and what a difference that makes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I love that I I think that's so important and just kind of any sort of ability as a young individual to be surrounded by people who are in the roles that you're interested in. And kind of when you're going through your college years there's only so much exposure to certain roles that they even tell you about like you don't realize how much is out there until you kind of start putting your toe in the water and then you're like wait I could go into this avenue or I could go down this path and it's like you know the road just opens up and you have so much that you can explore which is really cool. So I I do love that and it kind of your to your point about the CIO role being kind of brought up as that more strategic thinker. One a little overdue but we're getting there. We're getting there yeah yeah but but that is good to hear like our heights are better together when we're all in the room we have a diverse set in the room kind of all sharing and kind of working towards those problems so exactly it's good to hear so unfortunately we know kind of in these roles that burnout does happen and kind of some days are just a lot and can be overwhelming so what are some of the ways that you try to handle and combat burnout and kind of that overwhelmed how does Heather attempt to find peace in a day well if I'm not here at the lake um I I'm a Peloton junkie.
SPEAKER_04I have bike I have a bike here I have a bike in in Boston but more importantly I love the app I mean there's so many um opportunities to do all different kinds of workouts and I have like over a thousand over like the 1100 day streak I'm very proud of that um on Politan. You know so whether it's going for a run on the treadmill or doing a strength training class or doing a meditation or some yoga um I that's how I decompress especially I'm I work out at night. So when I get home from work I use that opportunity just to I don't have a long commute so I don't I don't get the opportunity to decompress in the car but um coming home and just taking an hour for myself to work out feel better get get a little bit of those endorphins um is my way to decompress and be less stressed.
SPEAKER_03I love that so I know within the Peloton community I have some girlfriends who just absolutely love love their bikes and love their program. Who is your favorite coach?
SPEAKER_04Do you have a couple favorites or I have a couple favorites I would say on the bike is probably Tunde just because she is so hard and I usually do her intervals and arms classes on the bike. I mean she's just it's so hard. And I think a couple other I love Adrienne um for strength training um and Brad Lopez and Jermaine Johnson from the UK like I love their strength classes. So I I've been really intentional these last few years as a woman um in her mid to you know getting into her mid to late 50s it's really important for us as women to do strength training.
SPEAKER_03So I've been doing that um but yeah I I try to try them all you know I you know on on the tread I would say Marcel um I I love I love some really hardcore rap music when I work out so I love I like the playlist I love it oh that's so fun um and I and I just love that you brought up movement in general I had um kind of a mentor give me advice once like start with five minutes if you're not even interested in working out and after and after five minutes when kind of your endorphins start pumping if you don't want to keep going then you did five minutes but I think 99% of the time once I start I'm like okay this is good. You know it's like you just you got to get over sometimes the mental threshold of yes man but the couch looks comfy or you know especially after a hard day at work you just want to couch rot and doom scroll I get it yeah very good all right let's hit you with some rapid fire questions coffee or tea iced tea oh iced tea sweet or unsweet oh definitely unsweet okay good answer I know I'm cutting off but good answer um are you more of a sunrise or sunset gal sunset we have a great great view of the sunset every night here at the lake oh a bet on the lake oh I bet that's beautiful what is your favorite summer snack summer snack I would say kettle chips like super crispy and hella good French onion dip oh so good so good I said I'm a savory gal I said watermelon and now I'm like wait a second no I just went right for the chips and dip great that's amazing um what is the last thing that you binge watched ooh um Real Housewives of Rhode Island first season amazing cast yeah love me anything Bravo TV oh I love that um are you a window seat aisle seat I guess a win a middle is an option but I don't think anyone would meet no I I'm definitely a window seat me too because I don't get up during the flight so and I don't want to be bothered so if you want to get up you sit on the aisle I will stay comfortable on my window seat. That's so funny I am the exact same way I don't love flying and kind of my podcast before was with Janice her and I flew from an event back together and she was the seat in front of me and she was so kind to swab seats with who is next to me so she could hold my hand because I hate flying.
SPEAKER_04I I picked an interesting career to yeah I would say not like flying but it's worth it it's it's yeah you know it's good but yes window seat I love looking outside what is one word to describe your leadership style I would say consistent good I like that I like that and what is your favorite vacation that you've ever taken oof I would say our trip to South Africa where we did safari for a week which was amazing um and then we went to Cape Town for a week and it was just the people there were just so lovely and gracious and it was just it was amazing. It was I would I want to go back so bad. Yeah oh that sounds so nice um was that a recent trip no it's been a while it's been a while so fun all right a kind of bigger question but what conversation or conversations do you think healthcare leaders need to be having right now I you know we talked we touched on it earlier Emily about the role of the CIO um I've seen a few more articles that have come out like at Becker's interviewing some CIOs about the CIO being seen as strategic um versus the order taker the implementer the executor and the rebranding that we need to we need to do for ourselves in partnership with you know whether we report to the CFO the CEO the COO whomever is how how do you impress upon them as much you know executive leaders to elevate the role of the CIO and and have them at the table early and you know we we get pulled in a lot of directions you know we're expect you know with AI not only we are expected to keep the lights on and implement the work days and the epics and optimize up you know all the things but now we're also being asked to have a strategy for AI and and manage that and the security that comes along with that. So how do we you know get our most senior leaders to understand that the CIO has something to say and that we're more than just you know bits and bytes and servers and you know that that kind of stuff. So I I would hope that I hope and we're and we're having it in our organization which I I truly appreciate that again the role of the CIO is so much bigger than what it was even three to five years ago.
SPEAKER_03Yeah it is kind of in the last couple of years I shifted from like the data management world to the cybersecurity world which I thought had a lot more overlap but man they're both they're both a beast to tackle both yeah but even cybersecurity in a lot of organizations reports up to the CIO if not CIO also at smaller organizations being the CISO. Yes yes to this day still baffles me because that is they're two full-time jobs and critical jobs so yes I would I'm I'm with you and I would love to continue to see that shift as well. Yeah so let's end with talking about bluebird a little bit so you've been involved in kind of like faculty and supported a few events I actually met you at SOR this yes yes that is so incredible.
SPEAKER_04Can you just talk a little bit about what Bluebirds meant to you and kind of as as somebody who you're at the CIO role now but kind of looking at the way that Bluebird is growing kind of what what does that mean and kind of where do you see the future of it and the impact that this event is making well I just I think what Rebecca has done is she's curated a group of leaders emerging leaders thought leaders just to come together in a safe place to talk about what's working, what's not working um the fact that there's so many male allies at the table uh you know it's not a she woman men hater club it's not what it's about but it's it's really to empower your best self and it it's just it's just it fills my cup and it it allows me to learn from others you know yes I've you know I'm always willing you know when Rebecca asks can you sit on a panel can you I love it because it just feels like friends talking um I might have just met that person you know that that day of the panel and it we come away you know as friends as colleagues and the the mentoring that just the organic mentoring that is happening is just amazing. I get mentored you know when I talk to you or I talk to others um it's just it's just it's awesome. I I really am impressed and I like that it feels intimate even though there's a couple you know like SOR last year was awesome I can't wait for you know I can't wait for this year for September. Um it's gonna be awesome um but it just it feels intimate even though there's lots of people there and that's I just think it's just a good vibe.
SPEAKER_03It does it does I love I mean there are hundreds if not maybe thousands of healthcare and kind of leadership style events that we get pulled to left and right and and each has their place but there's something about SOR that you leave exhausted in the best way where you're that's a good way to say your brain is just going and you have all these thoughts and you have so many LinkedIn connections coming in. Yes and it just fuels and I also think there's a beauty that you know there's some topics that maybe just naturally wouldn't fit into some other events kind of in the air. Yeah um I even think about like my my husband and I are at a phase where we're thinking about kids and I would love to continue to talk to people about what is it like maybe being more of the financial provider but also balancing kids and what does all that look like and and just sometimes that just wouldn't naturally fit into other events or kind of groupings but with Bluebird the door's wide open in the best way possible. It's like a thought and and if not let's connect you with the right people to have those conversations and people who are like well I'm finally an empty nester let me tell you all about it and that kind of so yeah it is it's yeah it's just so refreshing it's really really nice. So I love it. I love it. So we'll see you at Soar in Austin.
SPEAKER_04Yes 100% I gotta think about my dress do I wear black or gold so I gotta I gotta figure that out I know I'm very very excited I also love how stylish people are at SOR.
SPEAKER_03It's fun to keep best outfits and yes I need to think of it ahead of time which is fun. So well excited to see you there. If you haven't signed up already you'll at least meet both of us at SOR in Austin. I encourage you to sign up we actually have like four or five people coming from our organization this year. Just everyone was jealous we went last year and wanted to join so I'm very excited about that. Nice and Heather thank you so much for joining today.
SPEAKER_04Thank you Emily it's always a pleasure to talk with you um I love your texts and um I can't wait to see you in person.
SPEAKER_03Yes I'll see you in September. It'll be here before we know it and we'll just try not to melt until then that's right. Have a great summer my friend awesome thank you thanks everyone