Toxic Independence - #008

Not all independence is strength - sometimes it's just distance in disguise. Is your approach to life isolating you from those who love you most? Have you ever felt like help from other people is more of a burden than a blessing?

This episode looks at the differences between healthy and toxic independence. The subtle habits that push connection away (without you realizing it) and how to stay fully yourself without shutting your partner, your friend, or your family out.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Nick. And I'm Ashley. And this is between us. Okay, so early 2000 music.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I don't know if you've listened to any of the podcasts, you will know that we are fine listening to just all sorts of music.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

All kinds.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

And we love music. We love music back in the early 2000s. And if I'm honest, there were some shining points and there were some not so much. Correct. Um, I think before we started, you were singing what? Shine Bright Like a Diamond?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Yeah, Rihanna. Is that what Shine Bright Like a Diamond? That's that one.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah. It wasn't it. I don't think that there's a problem with what early 2000s music was. Well, of course not. But I mean, if you were to like uh if you were to put those up against other eras, decades of music.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It's it's uh I don't know. Not all of it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

A lot of it's not great. But there's some there's some shiny points.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

There were some trends, some trends in the early 2000s. We like we like to spell things out.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

We like to spell things.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Do you remember uh uh what is it? Bananas? Uh Bananas B. A-N-A-N-A.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Like, wait, please don't say the first line of the I don't know the first line.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I would not know the first line.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Well, I do, and it's not good. Um What else was Bergie? Bergie? She was she liked to spell her name. She did, too. And she liked to spell glamorous. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Glamorous was right.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

My personal favorite.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

I and D E P. Oh no. And D E E. Do you know what that means, mate?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

But the funny thing was like the line that followed that was She got her own house.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

She got her own car.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Well, hey, but you remember as a kid too. I am S D. Oh, yeah. I M S. We totally did that. We were doing this all the time. Yeah. Like what this is not new. I think mainstream took it and made it their own. Like they do everything else. It's fine. So we actually came up with it first. We started the whole spelling thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

And you know I have C-H-R-A-S-T and my H E R T. Yeah. And I will L-I-V-E-E-T-E-R-N-A-L-O-I. Yeah. Yeah. It was not planned. Good job. Oh, I feel like Fergie all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Fergie. Don't even get me started.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Oh, that's good stuff. Oh, you know what though? Can I say something? Say it. The black-eyed peas.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Listen, they were the first group on my workout playlist when I would go to the gym at like 5 a.m. in the morning in my early, early 20s.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

I would pump in my ears some black-eyed peas. Really? Yes. On the elliptical, like trying to love my life, but really hating it at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

It was almost like to me, the they were, you know, one-hit wonders. They were like one-year wonders. I disagree.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

I disagree with that statement. And that's fine, but it's okay. Agree to disagree.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I mean, you can have your own uh independent thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And I'll have my own independent thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Which leads us to today's topic.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Today's topic is based off of uh a listener suggestion, actually. Yes. And we thank you for suggesting this topic. Is we're going to talk about independence overall, but more so we want to focus on uh what is the the difference between healthy independence and a toxic independence, as worded by our listeners. So I wanna uh I want to open this up first of all, talking about the fact that there's nothing wrong with being an independent person. And I don't think there's anything I in in a lot of ways I think it's a healthy thing, but it can become sh like tragically, you know, horrible for somebody who feels like that's the only way to do life in in in an unhealthy way. Yeah. But so yeah, that it's been broken down the way I've seen it is toxic or hyper independence. Uh, and then there's a healthy independence, but I don't know what what um things have you researched on the front end as we got in ready for the episode today.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yeah, I looked into a few things and um the one thing that stood out to me was that this was actually like a trauma response.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Like it could be viewed as like, depending on the situation, of course.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

That it could be viewed as um someone basically like protecting themselves. Like if I don't rely on anyone, anyone, I won't get hurt. Um, that type of response of that self-protection kind of thing, which I think is totally true. Yeah. Um but I think if you've been hurt or you are, you know, you have suffered from trauma, like yeah, your your brain and your body, they're gonna want to protect. Like that's that's the end like survive. Yes. Um, and if we're not careful, like that can be our bend that we can go in that direction of just like I'll do it myself. And um, I'm not gonna ask anybody for help. And you know, I and some of those things I've even said to myself, oh yeah. You know, of just like I I don't want to have to need anyone. I just I'll I'll just get it done myself.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah. Ooh. Versus toxic independence is I don't need anyone including you. Yikes. Which is tough to hear. That is. But if if you're somebody, I think the way I've I've been researching it a little bit is if you're somebody who's dealing with toxic independence, it's almost like receiving help from somebody else feels more like a burden than it does a help.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So whenever somebody is like, hey, I'm I'm free on Saturday if you want some help with uh whatever, you're instantly like, that's too much. You're too much. Yeah. Get away from me. Yeah. And I mean, uh it it but what's funny is you said that, you know, there's been times that you've said that kind of stuff, even yourself. Oh, for sure. And and I think that there's just in and for some people, including myself, there are periods of time where maybe we are just toxically independent. Yeah. But if it's and and that's if that's a def a defining trait of who you are like constantly, maybe that is something where you've over time you've just built this wall of like this is how I'm operating. And it what it is, it's it's less of an independence and it's more of an isolation.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yeah. Do you know? Yeah, that's a good perspective of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

You do, you do end up like isolating yourself because you think this is the only way I'll be safe. This is the only way that things will get done the way I need them to get done. I mean, fill in the blank. Like it's easy to think that this is this way is better because it just feels comfortable and safe right now versus putting yourself out there and like accepting help or um just connection even. Right. You know?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah, there was uh um one of the psychologists I was listening to as well was talking about how uh this this really actually um uh connected with me a lot was sometimes people who uh he said like deal with toxic independence or struggle with toxic independence um will they'll make themselves so busy they don't have time for connection. Basically, they they their life is all about you know the paycheck, it's all about the success, or it's all about so they're always they're always unavailable for other people, or they're always on their way to the next thing, or oh hey, I'm sorry, I gotta get going, so we're not gonna have any further conversation.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Like real connection.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah. And so then you basically create um the you know as little space as possible for any kind of connection with anyone, and that's your excuse. So you've you've basically disconnected yourself from other people so that you there's nothing else, and and it's all just an excuse for you to say, I don't have time to be connected.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I'm so busy and and I have so much going on, and it's almost a badge of honor for you to be like, I'm so exhausted because I have so much going on, and it could be great and healthy things. It could be good things. Yeah. It's not like you're always like, you know, uh, you know, doing terrible things. You could be building a business and blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, is you're you're you're doing it some, and this isn't everybody, right? But some are they're just replacing the um the the discomfort of connecting with another person because they're afraid.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

I was gonna say, well, don't you think that the the real reason behind it is fear?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Uh fear of disappointment. We've talked a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Um, fear of being betrayed, fear of being vulnerable and not being taken the right way, or like, what is this person gonna think of me? And I think a lot of it is rooted in fear.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Which we could talk a little bit about pride too. Like, yeah, I I believe pride is really rooted in fear. I think like fear is the underlying culprit of of pride, which pride could be toxic independence, if you will. But um, yeah, I I just I do. I think that there's there's definitely something to that of knowing like what your what your biggest fear is ultimately do you fear that connection because you fear pain? Do you fear being hurt? Do you fear fear being betrayed or disappointed? Or what is that thing? You know?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

It it might look a little different for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

What's wild too is I think um, and you and I, we've been married almost 20 years.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Oh my gosh, that's crazy. That's weird to say out loud.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

You've said it on here before, and every time I've said it out loud, it's crazy, right? It doesn't matter. It's still it's still hits weird.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

We're that old now that we've been married for and we're you know what look at us, look at us doing the thing. I'm just doing the so you know doing the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

You know?

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Sorry, we're we're distracted. Go on.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

We're looking at each other right now and we're having a good time.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

It's a good time, it's a good time in this recording studio.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

But I think whenever you get uh in in a position like you're married to somebody else, maybe you almost uh or I guess for me, I I never really thought that this could possibly become an issue for me anymore. Where of course we're you know together. Of course we're always but the thing is there there are moments for myself where I have to remember, like, oh hey, this isn't just about me. Same. And my life, I have to slow down and remember, like, it's not about like, oh what how am I going to succeed? Yeah, but more how am I gonna provide? Oh, you know, or for others it might be it's not about, you know, um the the lavish riches that I want, but more so like how am I gonna make sure my kids have enough? Yeah, you know, and and it's it's interesting because I think that that um struggle for for um against independence or toxic independence, or maybe just an unhealthy version of independence.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

It's something that people can just honestly struggle with because you're right. I think it's rooted in pride and or fear, yeah. Um, and the same person who was talking about all of that uh, you know, being distracted or letting yourself become distracted, he also said that the hardest thing for a human to do is to come back to their own heart and deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Dang, that's really good. It's true, but that's so true. Yeah. For so many of us, I think, and I think we've we've mentioned this a l a little along the way throughout the episodes and everything of just dealing with our own stuff first um before it spills all over the other person.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Um it's one of the hardest things to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

It truly is. But it's one of the in my opinion and in my experience, it has been one of the most rewarding things because it's allowed growth to happen.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Whereas in some times, like some seasons, I was like kind of in a spiral, just kind of going around the same mountain over and over and over. But then it was like once I broke through that, but I had to do my own work. Right. Like I really had to go in and have the Lord like deal with me on some things and put his finger on some things, like and actually be willing to do the surrendering of it and laying it down and working it out. It took, it took a while, but it just the growth that came from that was huge. And so it gets a little bit easier every time. It's never just like, oh, this is great. No, rarely is it ever like, wow, thank you, Lord, for revealing that in me. And now I have to go ask for forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And it's so comfortable for me. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

It's just awful sometimes, right? But I do think that there's just so much growth potential in your own self, but also in your relationships around you.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Oh, and see, that's the thing I think too, is I think that we undervalue connection anymore because it's so easy to be satisfied without it.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Dang. You had some really good little one-liners tonight.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

And that was that was a good one. And I want to applaud myself, you know, no hands, no hands, but applauding myself for that one.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

That was good. Or for real.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I think so too. I think it's true. It's easy for us. Ashley did this to me earlier today. She took my phone and made it grayscale. It's awful. It is the worst because all of a sudden I'm like, what is this thing?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

And you don't even want to look at it. I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

It's so ugly. And it it is, but what's interesting about that is how quickly I was like, I need this to change back because I don't enjoy anything on here anymore. And I guess the point is, I think though it we are easily satisfied with so much more in this world that we could just set aside the people that care about us and that really we care about the most. 100%. And we could just find satisfaction in so many other things, yeah, but miss what is the most satisfying part of life. That's so true. And it is, and it's more, and and I mean, and we could take that from a marriage standpoint, a um friendship standpoint, like the kids. Yeah, I mean that is the big one for me. I know it hurts really when you think of it. Like our our kids are trying to connect with us, and it's easy to get distracted, or really to just you can call it maybe it's a numb independence, you know?

SPEAKER_03 14:47

That's preaching right there.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But that's toxic too, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good. I think that's I think that's really big. Now, one thing that the listener said, um, uh the way that they framed um how we could approach the topic, I thought was really key. Uh so uh do you mind if you read that quote or do you want me to read it?

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Yeah, okay. Toxic independence. So she was having a conversation with someone. Specifically, we were discussing how women, when we feel in a secure place with our spouse, we will try to gain control through extreme independence. But when we feel I'm sorry, I read that wrong. When we're in an insecure place with their spouse, um, they will try to gain control through extreme independence. But when feeling secure and safe in their husband's leadership, they don't necessarily need that toxic independence, all because when we are working together in God's design, we can fill our roles perfectly without resentment or needing to feed the lacking.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I think that's a really good statement overall. Now, and and I mean she's speaking from a woman's perspective. Right. I don't know if you have an initial thought on on how she stated that. Like whenever you feel secure in that place.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

No, I I agree. And I've said this multiple times about feeling safe and secure in your relationships. When you feel safe and secure, you you trust more. You you let your guard down a little bit more, you operate a I think you operate in a healthier way. Um, but when you don't feel safe, yeah, your brain and your body is just doing everything they can to survive and keep you safe.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

And if it senses a threat, like watch out.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

And depending on what you're, you know, what you've been through, yeah. If you don't feel secure in the leadership of your husband, that is a tough place to be in. And I I totally see what she's saying here. Like you can really get yourself spinning your wheels in that toxic independence mindset because you don't feel like you have a solid foundation.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

You don't feel safe. You don't feel secure in it. And so you're like, I'm not gonna get hurt.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

I'm gonna do this, you know. Like that's I think that's pretty true.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

I think it's pretty solid. I think also from a male's perspective, I would say on on the other end, it's it's not so much the do I feel secure in how you're fulfilling your role, but more of what what it is for me is how you're gonna respond to me fulfilling mine. Oh so I think it's almost how is she gonna deal with me trying to lead our household? Is she gonna allow me to lead? Is she gonna support my leadership? And am I going to be able to make some bold decisions when I when necessary or rely on you to help me make those decisions?

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And you still see me as the man or whatever. The leader of the house. Yeah. Like, can I be vulnerable and you still respect me? Ooh. Like that's good. That's a that's a really fine line because just the even in conversation, it's the terminology, it's the tone, it's the all of it.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

The tone, the tone is everything. It really is. We're learning.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, we are learning. But now, hey, now we've said this so many times, and I will say it again. I think that time is the ultimate um builder, healer, all of it. Yeah. So over time, all of this is what fleshes things out. But in the reality of it all, it's the consistent commitment and coming back to the table. Hey, I got that tone wrong. I got that term wrong. Man, I do respect you. Or I I do want to, I want you to feel secure. How can I lead us better? Like those conversations should be had, but it's just not easy, you know?

SPEAKER_03 18:25

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Now, I do want to say something about the overall statement because I thought this was this was interesting. This is how I see things, and I'd love to hear your input on this. I think that um the one thing that that overall statement is missing is I think that we look at the roles as okay, this is our job. So I'll do this, you do this, and if I feel secure in you doing this, and you feel secure in me doing my part, then we're gonna be doing the thing. But I think that it just lets us off the hook if we don't look at the rest of the picture. So here's the scripture I'm gonna bring up is Matthew 22, 36 through 40. Uh, this is when um basically the man's asking Jesus, Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus replied, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. All of the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments. So it's that second part. And we've I'm I'm sure people have talked about this many, many times. I've seen it for a long time and I've loved it because it's it's convicting. It's that second part. Love your neighbor as yourself. And I think what we can trip ourselves up into is hey, uh, you're doing your part, I'm doing my part, we're all good. But the problem is we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And I think that one of our deepest fears is loving ourselves. Oh, yeah. Really being okay with who we are. And we cannot appropriately love someone else until we understand what it is to love ourselves. Well, how does God see you? And if you're not comfortable answering that question, you're gonna have a hard time seeing how God sees someone else.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

That's it's hard. That is it's tough. Um man, there have been so many times when I acted as though I thought like I'm loving this is me loving myself, but it was actually like beating myself up.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

And uh it never got me to a point where I felt like I could really serve my family. Yeah, my kids, you. Right. Like it it never when I was pushing and pushing so hard um thinking I'm loving myself in that way. I I did more damage than good.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

And um like he's still working on that in me, you know? That that's just very, very um in real time, learning how to love myself the way that seeing myself how he sees me and all of that, and then you too. Like it's just wild, but that is definitely that's major.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, I it's uh it's humbling too, because um for God to put it in us to be able to love someone else and we're not even good at loving ourselves, even showing him like the appropriate response, you know, what he calls me to or how he's called me, or or you know, nudge me to do this or that, and I don't even want to listen to that. Let alone the things that you need or that our kids need, sometimes we'll put those first because we don't want to deal with what's in our own selves. Yeah. So that's that's what I think when that when that guy's talking about we'll we'll mo we'll make ourselves so busy. We'll make ourselves so distracted because we don't want to deal with, hey, you know, uh God loves you and he wants you to be okay with who you are and how he's designed you. Um there's work to be done.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

You know, you you were made to be more than just like a slave to the world.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

You're made to be someone who enjoys the world and enjoys other people, who connects with other people, to spread the love of God, like to be the light, and and you're made to do all of these things and you're so afraid of dealing with yourself that you don't want to do it. You know? Yeah. It's hard. It is really hard. So I I I guess what I would say anyone who thinks, like, hey, the way to fix toxic independence is to just make sure we do our roles really well. Uh I think you're right. I think that God has put us into specific roles.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Uh husbands, lead lead your family. Love your wives. Be ready to die for her. Um wives, love your husbands, respect them well, and do everything you can to show them like you really believe in them.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

And um, but remember, all that that takes, like you're gonna have to learn how to love yourself and deal with yourself.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Yeah. Um living in a constant state of just punishing yourself, I think that is people carry just a lot of shame.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

And it goes back to um not why are you this way, or you know, it's what's wrong with you. It's what happened to you.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Like what happened to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

And when you can start to unpack that and stop punishing yourself, yeah. You can you you're cracking the door open to learn really how to love yourself.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

And then that will open your eyes to see your spouse, your friend, your kids, yeah, your coworkers. Right. It's wild. Absolutely. I 100% agree. Because I mean it, you know, the you know, when whenever you're dealing with people that are really tough to deal with, we're quick to judge and slow to forgive. And whenever you start realizing, like, hey, you're just as bad. Like you're just as awesome.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Yeah, we all got our our stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

We all got our stuff. Uh maybe you'll be a little bit quicker to forgive.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

And more than that, like just love them well and meet them where they are. But I honestly think like independence, I don't think is as um, I don't know, dare I say sexy. It's not as it's sexy as I think this culture makes it to be. I you know, the term that I've I heard someone say that I thought was really good was instead of thinking of it as like let's be really independent because independent is a great trait, let's let's maybe be more self-sufficient.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Oh, yeah. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

I think that's good because you're self-sufficient. Yeah, you if I left for a week, everything's gonna be fine. It's not gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

It won't be easy, but yeah, but it's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And same for you. Whenever you've gone on, you know, those short uh those weekends and I'm crying. Oh man. Please come home. It's fine though. Yeah, I can be sufficient, I can handle the home, I can do the things, yeah, and I'm gonna be okay. But I instead of like I'm always gonna be on my own, it's more like uh, hey, I can do this if necessary, and I can take care of myself as needed. Right. But let's not forget, like, we're we're committed to each other. This is this is what it is. The long haul. Long haul, like it or not.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Like it or not.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

This is it.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

All right, rapid fire. Rapid fire. Let's hit it. All right. What's one thing you know for a fact I'd buy if I got rich?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Oh, okay, okay. So, first thing that comes to mind, I will never forget there was someone who um put up on Facebook, I think it was, this cappuccino maker. Oh. It was a brevil. I was like, gosh, those things are awesome. And you were like, hey, so-and-so's selling their Brevel um cappuccino maker. And I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_03 26:12

No, it's it's an espresso machine. Espresso is whole. But it's like a whole thing. They're incredible. Yes. But go on.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Well, here was the thing. I think it was like they wanted like 300, maybe 600. I couldn't remember which one it was. Probably upright 600. But those things are not cheap, regardless. And when you said it, I was like, I don't know if you looked at our bank account anytime recently, but we also had an espresso maker. We had a Keurig, and we also have a drip pot.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah, we were trying to figure life out with coffee.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Which I love where we are. I do too. But I think that your one of your purchases would bet would definitely be an espresso maker.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

I want to learn how to make all the drinks like that. All the coffee drinks, all the and I have a friend actually who has one and she was telling me the story and how like how much it costs, they actually like had to finance it. And I was like, wow, that's but it's such a cool setup.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Oh no, hey, wait, wait, wait. Can I just say something? If you ever do decide to get one of those, I'm secretly going to be extremely happy about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Of course, because you get to reap the benefits.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yes. Just so you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Wow, I didn't think you would say that.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

That's the one that that's the one that came to mind.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Okay, so for you, okay, I think you would nerd out and spend a ton of money on trading cards. Okay. You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

You would go to a you'd go to a show. I would definitely go to the show.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

You would be there for hours looking through decks of cards. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Now sports cards. I'm not talking about the don't do Pokemon. I'm not into that stuff, but you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Basketball, football, baseball, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I would love it, and it is fantastic. And you're right. I I would I would go to West Coast there. They have a Space Coast card show that's awesome, Orlando. Yeah. We'll go to the Nationals in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

I guess I would also see you like going to like an auction and just being like having a heyday. That would be a blast.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Oh, you're right. You're 100% right. And I would be filling up my collection. Oh man, I am kind of a nerd though. It's fine. I love it though.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

We all have that nerd side, don't we?

SPEAKER_03 28:14

We do.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

And something.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Mine's sourdough.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Hey, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 28:18

You love it.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

And we all know this now.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

We do. We've established it on probably the last three or four episodes.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

And yeah, I think you've only made one loaf in the past like three or four weeks. I'm fixing. I'm fixing to make some this week. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

All right.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

All right. Hey, this was a good conversation. Thank you to the listener who suggested this.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

We hope it blessed you and we hope that um you keep growing from it.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Absolutely. And if you have any other suggestions, feel free to let us know. There might be a way for you to just send us a message down below. If not, um just stay listening. And if you know us, and let us know. All right, guys. Thanks for listening.