How to Find Your Identity After Leaving Religion, Work, or Old Roles

How do you find your identity when the thing that defined you is gone?

Leaving religion. Losing a job. Becoming a parent. Shifting roles in a marriage.
All of it can leave you feeling like… who even am I now?

In this episode of The Mystic and the Saint, we talk about identity loss and what it actually looks like to rebuild your sense of self after everything changes.

We get into:

• how to find your identity after leaving religion
  
  
• identity crisis after job loss or career change
  
  
• losing yourself in motherhood or becoming a stay-at-home parent
  
  
• mixed faith marriage and identity conflict
  
  
• feeling lost in life and trying to figure yourself out again
  
  
• separating your identity from roles (mom, provider, religion, career)
  
  
• how to start reconnecting with who you actually are

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When you're part of a high demand religion, I feel like it's extraordinarily difficult to not separate your identity from the church. And in fact, I would say it's almost encouraged to meld those two things. I'm the mystic and he's the saint. We're opposites in every way and still choose to be married. Welcome to the conversation. I'm Sierra.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

And I'm Devin.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

And today we're talking about identity.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

From a religious standpoint, there is kind of teachings or doctrine or different things that describes who you are and where you come from and different things like that. So your identity, part of that, anyway, is a little bit of doctrine.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And where you're going. It's not just where you came from. It's this is end goal. And I feel like oftentimes we mix end goals with identity.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah. And maybe things that you should be doing with identity. Yeah. You should be a mom. You should be helpful. You should be service-oriented, helping people all the time, doing all these different things. Which none of that is bad, but it can become consuming if you try and make that your full identity.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

You and I have both gone through several identity crises. And so where do you feel like you were versus where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I think for me I started off the kind of rigid, what do they call that?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Patriarchal asshole.

unknown 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

What's the it's the traditional kind of started out? Yes. So what you're describing is what I would say is a traditional kind of dynamic where I grew up thinking that I needed to be the breadwinner, that I needed to be the provider, that I needed to be a husband, that I needed to be a father, that I needed to be a good in good standing with everybody around me and helpful and supportive and whatever. So when I jumped into work or school or anything like that, it was all guided towards how quickly can I earn more money to provide better. And for me, it was how quickly can I get to retirement. Yeah. Then we went and did entrepreneurial experience that didn't pan out. And then that caused a big shift to where you went to work and I became the stay-at-home parent.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Okay, let's talk about that a little bit because you fought me going back to work.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

It's looking back at that now that I would say, oh, that was probably a subconscious shot at me of saying, you're not doing enough, you're not providing enough, you're not doing this well enough, you're failing in some regard because I have to go do something.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Which wasn't the case. We had enough money. We were totally set and fine. I just like working.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah. And again, I think it could even just be the marriage and figuring each other out and learning together. And we didn't ask the right questions. We didn't know how to ask questions because you always approached it from the standpoint of because of how you were raised, I don't feel of worth unless I'm bringing money. And for me, it was like, I'm bringing money.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Or even I grew up very independent. That was part of my identity was I do things. And so then when I became a mom and it was, I'm not doing anything, because it's a lot, it was just a lot of doing things that I hated. I was used to being goal-oriented for me. And now all of my goals were towards this outside source of a child that I couldn't control. I just was always focused on I need to better myself. That was my identity. And then when I became a parent, I was like, oh, I already raised myself and I know how to make myself meet goals and do all of these things. And that was usually shame-based because that was the structure that I was given. That was how I knew how to be successful. But then I knew as a mom I wasn't supposed to be shame-based. And so there were just all of these different aspects of my identity that did not mesh well with motherhood. And so I wanted a job, one, because it brought in money, but also it would give me some semblance of I can do this thing. I struggle really, really bad with the mom thing, not saying I'm going to give up on it. But to me, work is like a hobby and you didn't like that because money was involved. If I wanted to go and do a hobby, you would be like, yeah, that's fine. But because the hobby resulted in money, it triggered now I'm intruding on your identity of bringing in money.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah. And again, if you even, if you laid it all out like that, I think we could have worked through it. Yeah. But it wasn't laid out like that. It was just, I'm doing everything I can because my identity is providing for the family. And then when I come home at the end of the day, you're saying, I want to go work. And so to me, it was like, obviously, I'm not doing enough. Obviously, I'm not providing enough. What the heck is going on? And instead of just listening to what you were saying or figuring this all out, it was just kind of our own insecurities getting in the way of each other.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Right. And then also I constantly felt controlled then by that because we weren't having the right conversation. I just said I wanted to work. You said no. And then I was like, hey, tell me what to do. And so I think it we just were battling each other's identities the whole way. That was hard.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And if we could have figured it out, I think it would have been fantastic. It was just that we were in an insecure environment for me anyway, because the spotlight was on to get it all figured out. My insecureness getting in the way and not knowing how to handle that and just trying to shut you down, because that control is what helped me feel safe, led to you feeling, obviously, more controlled, which made you want to burst out even more. I did not ask it like that. I did not say why do you want to go do this? I said, we have a lot of things going on. We should be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Which sounds worse, I think.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

It is worse. I'm just saying, like, if I said, why do you want to go do this? We might have had a positive conversation. Oh, okay. She figured things out. But again, it wasn't. It's a weird dynamic because, like you said earlier, if we talked through things, I would have been opposed to them. Yes, I became very controlling, kind of unbeknownst to myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

And you fought me on that as well, because it was like I was tearing the family up, but also I was saying your dream's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, it was difficult because again, I'm the ever-optimist, but also, yeah, that was my dream job, dream environment, dream situation. It was a pretty bumpy ride the whole way through. But yeah, it was really hard to say goodbye to that dream.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

You left the business, I left the church, and then we started these new roles. You wanted to be a stay-at-home parent because you didn't feel like it would be a good thing to have a nanny. And then I went to being the full-time breadwinner. Now we were also in a relationship that was mixed fake. And I feel like that's when it was like certain we knew we were mixed fake because before I felt like you thought I was on a sabbatical and I would come back. But once we moved to St. George, you knew, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I mean, you hoped. Yeah, there was still that hope not long after getting there. It was like, this is this is our new reality.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

So, how did you deal with your identity crisis of becoming the stay-at-home parent?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Um, lots of pizza, lots of pacing back and forth. It was really, really hard because everything that I had known or thought would be what led me to success was now gone. I didn't have a job to help define who I was or provide me with any immediate feedback to success. I did want to have a parent at home, and I thought that that would be a little bit more rewarding in that sense. But yes, all of that stuff was in turmoil, upheaval. Yeah, I dealt with it. Doing all the wrong things, eating pizza, disconnecting, watching tons of shows. Yeah, just being disconnected.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Did you ever feel because I feel like I was a good stay-at-home parent too?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

I cleaned, I cooked, I made sure that the kids were reading, but checking boxes is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah. We both did a good job checking boxes.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

But my identity, the role did not help support my identity, did it for you? Or did you just get really good at checking the boxes and that felt like part of your identity? Um good at checking boxes.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

That's a good question. The point where I would say I would say that that that role was more in line, and it became much more evident how much more in line that role was potentially than what I thought going to work was. So being the stay-at-home parent is my role and fits my identity. I would say it fit much, much more than going to a job and playing the political game and trying to feed into all of these things that are kind of superficial. I begin to appreciate much more. Here is a job that truly needs to get done and matters. And matters, and I can do it. And again, if that's what work is for you, I'm not trying to bash on work in general. Just there are some environments where you have a job that needs to get done. And on top of that, you have this whole gunning for promotions and trying to be looked at, you know, kind of this whole politicking thing in the office to make sure that you're on good standing. And I it became very, very clear to me that I did not like that. I did not enjoy that dynamic of trying to prove yourself.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Not authentically, but in the way that they wanted you to.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah. Whereas being being a stay-at-home parent, it's like you gotta cook, you have to clean, you have to do these things, and I could do that, and then that's why I struggled, is again, I tried to force that as my identity, but it was a little bit easier to remove myself from that to an o to an extent and just say, these things need to get done, I can do them, and then I'm freed up to do other things if I want to. What about you going to work? How did that, instead of being the stay-at-home mom, getting back into what felt more natural to you, how did that pan out?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I liked having a career way more than I liked being a stay-at-home mom. Having a career helped hit boxes for my identity that being a parent really did not not being a parent, being a stay-at-home parent.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Um, but also I picked a profession that's kind of a glorified parent. Um, and so it came with a lot of the same challenges where my success was somewhat out of my control. I could use best practices, I could use data analysis, I could use severe intervention, I could, there was so much that was within my control. But at the end of the day, what they looked at was test scores. But I loved feeling creative and then they would usually try and seeing them go from, you know, 42% test scores to 86% test scores was so fulfilling for me to see kids grow and develop, and knowing that I helped that was crazily fulfilling for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Kind of intermeshed a little bit parenting and teaching. Parenting, you don't have those tests, you don't have those things that kind of you can hang your hat on and say, see.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

And show people, see, I am being a good parent.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

You can do your best as much as you possibly can, and then you go to a restaurant and your kid screams and farts and does all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

And even if you could, you're discouraged from doing that, right? Like if you walk up and are like, Bobby got a hundred prints on his bailing bead, right? All the other parents are gonna be like, Great. But if I come home and I'm like, hey, 32% of my students showed this much growth, that's never happened. That's success, or like people celebrate that. Being a mother is so much a part of your identity. Like I remember being told in church, I don't know if this is actually doctrine, but it was something that was shared a lot for me growing up. Was if your kids don't get into heaven, you're going to be blamed.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah, it's not doctrine, but I would say that that's very much a and so I'm like, oh my gosh, my soul's in the balance.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

How well I can teach this kid to have morals or not. That's literally Satan's plan, according to the doctrine, was that Satan didn't want you to have the ability to choose. And then that's kind of what it felt like they were asking me to do as a parent was take away my kid's agency because otherwise I couldn't get into heaven.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And everybody looked at you. There was so much judgment and anxiety around being a mom for me in Utah. It was supposed to be the reason that I was born and that I existed was to nurture. And I didn't like it and I wasn't good at it.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Which is really difficult for me from an outsider's perspective, because if I could remove all of that stigma and insecurity and judgment and all that stuff, you would thrive in being a mom or thrive in being a teacher. And really, you thrive in anything that you put your mind to because of how driven you are. But particularly, I I hate how much frustration you have towards being a mom because you are incredibly good at it, but there's that wall there that you you can't push through, or you have these really, really good moments that are followed by our kids doing some stupid thing, and that immediately puts you back into this is all my fault.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

But when those stigmas and that judgment and my anxiety has been removed, I love being a mom. I love hanging out with our kids, and that's why I try to learn that that's not my soul identity. It's a part of my life, but my soul and my eternal well-being is not wrapped up in how my kids choose or live their life.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

So you asked me this question recently, and we tried to work through it a little bit. So you have all of those external things that help contribute a little bit to your who you are day-to-day and what you do and what you're about. But kind of like we've talked about, those don't really define who you are as a person or what your identity is. So how do you, because you asked me this more recently and I didn't have answers to this. I didn't even know how to think about this. But how do you um how do you figure that out? And is it important to figure it out? Now I went through a good chunk of my life without really having a good understanding of it. And again, after you asked me these questions and different things like that, it was actually really interesting and intriguing to figure things out a little bit more and understand the pieces of why certain things work really well for me and why other things I struggle with so much. But I never would have um taken that deeper dive. My identity stayed pretty superficial.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

For me, coming from a more atheist background or belief system, since I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife the way that most people do, of like, okay, yeah, this life will suck and I'll hate it, but then I'll like my next life. For me, mine is this is the only life that I have that I can experience this way. I don't think I cease to exist. I don't know why I'm telling you what I think happened after I died, but anyway, just to fully get the most out of this life is how I should say it. I want to enjoy it fully as much as I can. Things that bring my soul and my self-realization to the forefront are things that bring me peace and joy and excitement. And that might not be the words that people, you probably wouldn't use the word excitement to describe what brings you the most out of this life. You hate being excited.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

That's not true. Kind of.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

But that is for me, and that's how I knew the box that was handed to me by the church of this will bring you the most happiness wasn't the case because I tried so hard. I did check all of those boxes, and it was not bringing me happiness. It was bringing me self-loathing and hatred.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And that's something that's interesting that I've looked at more recently as we've had these conversations, is it's oftentimes too easy to simplify it down into that. And it has been simplified down into that. Do these things and you will be happy. When in actuality, it is apply these things to your life.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah. And it could be anything. Right. And that's what I was going to say. It's not true. If you do yoga three times a day, you will be happy. If you go to church every Sunday, you will be happy. Everybody seems to be telling you that they have the answer for you. And for me, I feel like everybody already has the answers inside of them. And you lose that self-sovereignty when you are looking for external places to give you the answer.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

And right everybody is a wonderful individual at their core. And then you have all of these things that people push down your throat to say, do it this way, and you'll be happy. And again, like we said, in every facet of life. And it's too easy and too difficult sometimes. We lose sight of who we are internally and lean too much on these things as the answer. Whereas what it should be is I am comfortable and I am okay with who I am at my core, and I can use these as tools to help further me in where I want to go. And that's where a lot of these things started at their root was to help people to become better and to do better. But it just gets simplified over time, simplified, simplified, simplified to you have to do this and you have to do it this way in order to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Just do what works best for you to get you to get better.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And again, sometimes it's hard because if we aren't fully comfortable, if we still have those insecurities, which we all have, we're always looking for that validation. So whatever choice we make, we make, we want others to make that same choice because that validates that we've made a good choice and that we're doing the right thing, which in turn, our identity, we're good, we're happy, we're we've made successful choices in our life.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. And it gets simplified down so much that you really lose that sense of self-trust because everything outside of you is saying, no, no, no, no, I like it this way. And so you have to be doing it that way because I am successful. And so if you can be successful doing the exact same thing, you are pushing my rightness. Then even if you were born with that innate sense of self and know, like, no, this is what I want, this is what I should be doing. It's so hard to keep that alive in any facet of life because everything outside of you is saying no.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

If you can figure out who you are at your core, then you can more successfully apply these things. So, for instance, one of the things that we talked about was family is massive to me. It's huge. I love family. Oh, yeah. That's why we I didn't want to get a nanny. I wanted to have that tight knit core group thing. Yet every time we had free time and we were doing things as a family, all of a sudden I would get distant. And you were saying, Why the heck are you doing this? If family is so important to you, every time we get together to do family stuff, why are you pulling off? You have to work through that. One is that I try and do everything I can for the family, and so that when you guys get together to do things, A, that's a time where okay, I can finally take a break for a second because somebody's watching the family and taking care of the family or whatever. But then B, it was what brings me the most enjoyment in life. And again, that doesn't mean that that's what we have to do every time, but we found that oh, I really love recreation, I really love getting out, I really love doing camping or sports or hiking or any of those things.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Or even games. You love to turn anything into a game.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, being playful, interacting in that way. And anytime we incorporate family into that, I thrive. But anytime we're doing other things, that's where I really struggle. But it was really helpful to see that and say, oh, okay. So I thrive in these environments, and it's a little bit more challenging in these environments. So I need to be particularly more present when we're in the environments that don't come as naturally to me. Yeah. Because those were all the times where my fuse was a whole lot shorter and it would turn into not a great event. We're we're going to bed early or we're doing these types of things. So trying to get to the core of who we are can help us be more successful when we apply those things to us. Because we know, oh, this is where I'm really, really successful and it's going to come more naturally to me. And these are the areas where I'm going to need to take a little bit different approach or be more aware or more present. Or if I'm going to do it this way, I need to be more conscious and aware of how I'm doing it because it's not going to come more naturally.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And realizing that there's other things that you value that you can try and incorporate in areas where you can't do recreation or you can't turn this into a game, but you really like community.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

And so how can you incorporate that into the family? Because I'm the Opposite of you, I hate recreation with the family.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

I like finding quiet. And so when we started doing these outdoor activities more to try and help you feel like you were getting your recreation kick, I was like, I'm not gonna care so much about getting the kids from point A to point B. I'm gonna look at the leaves and the rocks because that's bringing me enjoyment. I'm spending time with the family, the people who want to go from point A to point B can. Those of us that want to look at rocks can like, and it really freed up our family to be themselves as well. Because rather than every situation having these expectations of this is what it is, this is what it looks like, this is how you are successful in this minute, it really allowed us to instead say, We have this minute, what can we do to get enjoyment out of it?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, and it teaches just that you can find enjoyment out of any situation.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah. Well, finding your own identity, I feel like makes it so much easier to support other people in their identities.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And finding and being confident. Yeah. Because you can know who you are at your core, like that. If you would have stayed in the church, you know who you are, you know that that doesn't fit, but you don't have necessarily the confidence to get out of that or to voice that or to do whatever. But being confident in saying this is who I am and doing that in a productive way allows everybody to come together and find success and be there for each other because we're not just always worried about trying to get as much as we can for ourselves.