Neil 'Dolly' Dalton | Tales of a Physio - Part 1

Part 1 of this 3 In The Middle two parter as the lads welcome Neil 'Dolly' Dalton for a glimpse into the life of a first team physio with over 1,000 professional games under his belt. 

Look forward to hearing him chat about setting fire to player's personal belongings, X rated Secret Santa gifts to one of the lads and Nigel Pearson's game day magic eye drops as well as a host of stories from his 1,000+ games at Carlisle United, from being in the golden generation to the Roddy Collins days. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Right. Our second episode of Tales of Uh Physio this week with Neil Dolly Dalton who has treat every single person in Carlisle.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Men and women.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

So we've got some tales about a thousand games that Dolly physiod for Carlisle United.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

What was it all? 1209 for Carlisle. 1209. About 60 or 17 Scotland, something like that. Fair player man, that's class.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

So this episode is sponsored by again Warwick Road Bed Centre. He's stumped up again for us in this special episode that it's been getting the Instagram going. A lot of questions, which we said we can't really ask Wagani. Um but plenty of people texting in, a lot of interest on this. We will be serious as well because injuries are a serious uh subject. But thank you very much, Warwick Road Bed Centre, for this sponsor for this episode, which we're looking forward to doing, aren't we, lads?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah, I got a few people last night asking when the the Dolly episode's out, so we'll keep it for a bit. Aye. I said uh I'm not sure. I'll ask the the bosses, but aye, a lot of interest, so looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Start with this, Dolly. Twenty years since we won League Two.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yeah, unbelievable, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:45

20 years since you were front flipping in Field Mill in front of the Mansfield.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah. 30 year old. Tried it again at 40, pissed up, but nearly broke my neck. Is that when you were in your prime dolly? 30, aye. Was it? 30, I wasn't bad. Well, aye. Late 20s, 30. I still played till I was 30, residents.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Can I just say before we go any further, I've never seen anyone kick a ball as hard in my life. Hammerfoot? Hammerfoot, honestly, aye. Some restoration.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

You remember Shoot magazine? Yeah. They used to come and they bring the thing behind the goals. Where they measured the measured it. Oh, yeah. So I I was third, I think, at the time. Tony Gallimore, I think, won it. Right. Um, because they'd done the long throw. Yeah. And there was Leg from Cardiff. Aye, and Lash, Rory, yeah. And Challener. Yes, yes. Aye, aye. And they were the top three. Aye. Done that on St Aden's Fields.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Fair against uh Tramia when Challener was there, like for crew in the championship, and like they'd get a throw in like just in the halfway line. All the crew lads were running back, and I'm like, what? Oh aye, Challener. Like, like a corner all the time. Rory tells the funny story, doesn't he? Pulis didn't even know that he had the wasn't asked about them. He chucked the ball back. And Pulis was like, get him over here.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

He didn't do it at Carlisle. A good player though, wasn't he? Didn't he? No. I didn't know that. Never got the praise he should have. You don't play 250 Prem, 250 champ. If you've only got to throw him. If you've just thrown, yeah. He's just known as that though, wasn't he? Unfortunately, yeah. He was a brilliant player. Unbelievable career. And then maybe 20 for Ireland as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

So what people might not know, you actually started as a player, didn't you? Yeah. Apprentice.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Who was your group? That that group. So Rory? Who else? Prokey, Hoppy, Dobie, Wilvarty, Muzzer, Lee Peacock. Kegie was an older player because you could play two older players for the youth team in them days. Prinzy, Jason Prince, and Forward, Blondes, Gill. Yanni played up a couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

For that amount of lads to come through at that sort of age group, when you think about it now, it's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

He's the only one who didn't. Played 150 resie games. Me first two, apart from uh preseason friends. Aye.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

That's some group of players that mind.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah. Med a fortune. I mean, in those days, that's that's 92. The med, several million quid.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Off them lads. Off them lads.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Brilliant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

So out of the Procasters the De Laps, the Jansens, Muzzers, who was the best?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Jansen was probably the best as a kid and went on and had a career. You know, unfortunately, with his accident, he didn't he didn't then fulfil it. Muzzard done well, but big injuries. Yeah, Muzzard. Lash Rory DeLap's probably done the best out of them all for longevity. Janny was probably going to be the next one. He turned Man United down twice and went to Palace and then uh Blackburn.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

You know, when you spoke to Yanni, why did he I thought it was fair play to him because he wanted to go and play, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Wanted to play. He spoke to Ferguson. He spoke to Ferguson in the boardroom at Carlisle and turned him down that day. Oh, to go to Palace, yeah. But he got in the England squads and he he got the shit when he was due to go to somewhere, and then went to Rome with his missus and had his bike crash.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Is that what happened? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

He came off a bike in Rome and got a head injury. He was in intensive care for a couple of days and it done him. He got back. He got back, um played, but he was just never the same.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Do you remember when he came not even on trail under MacDonald? He came and trained with us, right? And he's chipped Westward from about eight yards out. He's chipped him in that, and we were like, we were saying, What's the crack? And he was like, not really bothered. But then a couple of months later, I think he signed joint manager with Flickcroft somewhere, didn't he? He did. He should have just signed for us.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Oh Christmas. Is his head gone a bit? Were you thinking he's just wanted to get out?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

He couldn't do it. So when he was a kid, he was so good, and they put him on more money than everybody, all of us, and that he was arrogant and he had that. But he was he was a decent lad. When he came back, it was gone. Was it? Yeah. I mean he came back and he was he was a multimillionaire, he'd done everything. And when he came back for a sort of trial, as it was, he just sat in my room and got changed in my room, didn't want to be with the lads. He played left back that day when he when he done that. Like he was a different person, just a different person. He'd lost all his confidence. He just mentally something completely. And he had a couple of goals. They had him at Blackburn again, they had him at Bolton, and he played the odd game, but he just never see because he never had that arrogance though.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

It probably is by your sounds of it, is probably why he couldn't get back to the level he was at with that there's an arrogance, but you top players just got that, haven't they? They've got to be something like they believe in themselves 100%. And then when you if if they don't believe in it as much, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Talking Muza lacked confidence, didn't he? Paul Murray.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I was listening, so I've listened to all the podcasts of lately we'd been away. And the the one about Mussza, we were whitees and we were sat in the first team room and Wadi was manager, and he sat us all down, he gave us a spiel of speech, this and that and the other, and he just went round one or two and asked them a question. And Mussur said that day, because he he muzzer was my age and our age, but he was the first of September. So he was when he was in Carlisle, he was in our year. When he moved to Penrith with his dad, he dropped back a year, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So he didn't come YTS till we were sort of going into second years, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

And we sat down when Woody came in and he just asked Mussad a question, and Mozart straight away said, I'll be in your first team of Christmas. I think it was Boxing Day or the one in between that and New Year. He made his deals, and he was and he never looked at.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah, Mussel got injured for about three months and Daniil MacDonald, and he just went and knocked on McDonald's door and he went, Eh, I'm fit now, and I expect to play it. Alright. Like on a four-game win and run, he would just went and expect the play.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

He would just come out with that. Brilliant, brilliant guy.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Uh any YTS trips then?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah. So in those days, first year we raised money, and uh how'd you just do that? Just in yourself, like in a tiny everything, you know, just just begging for money basically. But we got a trip to Holland to Den Haag, obviously, which is just outside Amsterdam. And uh Wilkesy was obviously boss, and there was a couple of guys that help us. Mallie Burgess was his number two, and Hesi was the physio, the fireman. So we get to wear, we take all the pictures, we're playing, you know, a couple of games, we get a couple of nights out, and uh we're supposed to go out for a couple of drinks, drink halves, no more. So did he give me a coffee? Well, yeah, midnight, but yeah, that wasn't gonna happen. To be honest, Wilkesy was half boozy anyways that night, so he he didn't think so. We're in a nightclub, all drinking pint, me, Mooney, Muzzer, one or two others, and I'm at the time starting to smoke, so all of a sudden Wilkesy comes in half. I've got a pint in my hand leaning against the bar with a fag on. I stood, and Wilkesy comes up and I see him coming, but because he's drunk, he doesn't focus. So I'm like, oh shit, fag behind my back. Mooney's got two pints, one of them's just pushed away. Muzzers sat on a couch with two birds, but he's like this is 16, 17 year old. So Wilkesy comes up. Uh hi guys, it's uh it's getting a bit late. You know, we've got a 12 o'clock curfew, we've given you an extra half an hour. I've got a fag on, and the smoke's coming up from behind the back of me head. Mooney's like out of the game, and Muzzers just still sat there with two birds on. So obviously, this would have been whatever time. So we get to we get to knock next morning, seven o'clock, Wilkes' room, told off. He's got us running around the gardens in and out of the tree. Just as a thing, just as a telling off, but or to show the others that there was discipline, but I he wasn't bothered. We went to the we went to the the brass houses, just along the street, and I could tell it like Rory was just staring the birds out. He was just looking at the birds because we we were that age, he didn't like that. So they're in the windows with next to now on, and they're all coming in, waving you in and that. Well, obviously, we had never had two quid. Rory is just staring them, like, and even the birds are shutting the curtains eventually, or the the bouncer guys or whatever that you know who were looking after them are just saying, like, go move along, lads, move along.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

But aye, great days. You just remember them things all their life, only your YT.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Oh, YT days were best nighting contract, what we got.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Ah, so when nighting came in, obviously came in before then. So I I was still playing sort of first year pro, but I was getting bombed. Right. So the the they offered me to go into the medical side.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Well, I did the offer.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I was gonna say that, like uh well, so in those days you had like a uh a head white, not a head white, uh head boy, I think. Head boy, you know what I mean? Right. So obviously the head boy gets does the kit because that's the job that the thing. So I done that, but I also looked after Pete Room, and I was obviously half decent at the at that job. Yeah, like because in those days you had reusable strappings, it's Pete Hampton, isn't it? Pete Hampton, so you had to you had to roll the strappings back up and make sure the ice machine was full and all that. So I just I was obviously conscientious and looked after it, and I was always in there, and I just had an interest, and it was one of those when I was getting bombed, or when I was gonna be bombed, I'm either jobbing around looking for a gig, and in those days we were we were sort of fourth division, you know. Do I go looking for gigs? Or you know, it wasn't big money in them days, I was on 80, 90 quid a week or something like that, or do I go into this and profession? And what he had said, look, you can still play, you know, for the reszies, you ain't gonna play the first team, but you can still play and train and do all that, and I thought, what's best for me? And sure enough, it it turned out it was. What year was this then? Big 94, 5. So after YTS, 90 90s was 92. I started, so then two years, and then the year after that.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Um and then what the so you liked that, and then was it a case of there's a there's an opening here?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, so Knighton had come in and and they were trying to progress the club, they wanted to be a bit more professional, trying, you know, they wouldn't more professional, so they're you end up walking at the club we're gonna promote you. We're gonna promote it.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

He folds them vanages well, he can look after the last.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, so that like Pete was head physio, and then they brought me in as assistant. Um, obviously, Merv Day came in and transitioned from playing at first as Tagalogie coach and assistant manager. Joe was first in coach, Wilkesy was the sort of uh in-between. Yeah, um we then you know it was just we were getting more numbers in staff, so that was all, and they asked us and I jumped at it. That was it. Went and done my courses, done some with Pete, went and done some with the FA, then went and done my sports therapy.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

How long did that take?

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Um all in total to get like as a qualified sports therapist, and then probably touching three years, really. Um and then that would have been so I'd have been 21, late 21s, Knight and decided to just sack everybody. So basically this would have been 97. Uh Joe had gone that summer, Pete and Merv. Uh Pete had gone. Pete was assistant manager then. Pete went. Merv indeed had contract wrangling, he got bombed. So there was basically me, Halpe was community, Luxie was youth team reserves, they got bumped up to first team joint manager, and I was head physio under 22.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

That's mad now. That's mad. Did you were you confident enough to treat them like a nah? Nah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

I was you you knew your stuff for passing courses, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

I was gonna say that, you know, you'd done the courses. Did you learn a lot on the job? Under Pete's everything was on the job. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Everything under under Pete, but also when you're in the coal face, um it you know it was tough.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Who were the big characters then, though?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Warren Aspin, all them people like that. I mean, Aspers had played Prem, Everton, Villa.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

He was class in Dorney as a player, class as a player, that's sumo, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

But control his weight, no chance. Control everything else that went with it, no chance. There was a story about him. So in those days, we didn't have we had a training pitch, but it was at the back of the east end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was that one then got flooded, was heavy. Rehab-wise, we had a little sixteen six station gym in the Neil Centre, just a cupboard. We used to do our rib rehab at the at the sand centre, rehab, as in, I would give them a sheet and away they would go. One story about Aspers was eventually because he used to drink with a few boys in town that are well known to local people who would know who they are. And so I used to give him a sheet when he was injured, go to the sands, do your rehab, X, Y, and Z. Later found out he was just in the detour in the pub, uh, White House or somewhere like that. The White House playing pool gambling and drinking and doing everything else, and I wouldn't know that obviously it's it's like 11 in the morning till till one or whatever it will be, and that's what he was doing. Uh you were in the pub playing playing. I'll go and get him.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I need to put in their suit so they've got it, but you rack them up.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

So, how was the team doing at that point?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

So, we had two promotions, two relegations. So, first year when Waddy came in, Dave McCready was still here, and they eventually eased Dave McCready out, retired him type thing. Waddy took over, done really well, got the first promotion, got the first Wembley, done great. Then Waddy goes to Norwich, read Megsen, and Merv comes and um we come down, then Merv takes over. Well, Merv had already taken over, we come back up, and then we get relegated again. So it was like an update.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Some experience that I'm not at 22 though.

unknown 15:58

Aye.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Some experience. Aye. Good like steep learning, but brilliant. But by about 204, I'd started doing the physio degree as well. So I was still learning. No wonder you've had about 6,000 games on the yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Yeah, I uh so did you know so you know when they just went down under Merve, did he stay a season, or did he go after getting relegated?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Oh, crikey.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

I think done the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

I think they got rid of him early doors as we got relegated. We got relegated because really they didn't really invest. You know, again, you needed to kick on again. We had invested and got good players, but we need we need to push again and and they didn't. And I think Merv's thing was he'd gone and asked for a bit more door, and Knighton just wasn't having any of it, and then eventually just could you tell Knighton was uh enthusiasm had gone a bit by then I think when we'd got rid of two or three of the big boys, Yanni had gone, you know, Rory had gone, he was sort of looking what's going through. Boats, I can't remember if Knighton was still here with boats. Rideau had probably gone by then. You know, he he he maybe didn't see what was coming and it'd either invest or come down, or or you know, back off with the with the door. And he I think he backed off with the door. Did you have much of a relationship with Knighton or not? Knight was alright with me. He was he was brutal. He when I when I got my contract to to to be a physio or be the head physio, I knew what Pete was on because Pete told us. Right. And he was on basically in those days he was on about four times as much as me. But then when I got the head job, I asked for another 50 or 75 quid. And he basically said, nah, there's a four-year contract. You sign it or you're gone. Did he? Yeah, and he just basically just put a couple of And wouldn't budge. Wouldn't budge.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Is that so you know when you said you sign a four-year contract there? Is that how it works for physios and that?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Not not nowadays and not latterly, not the last lots of years really. It doesn't, but he did in those days. There was more So it was more like you were like a player contract. Yeah, it was more of a time contract, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

So what would they do now? Are they just like is it just nowadays you're just employed?

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Yeah, so they can yeah are you are you are they looked after in a case like you can't get sacked? If you get sacked in a yeah, you this insurance is not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Nothing, nothing, it's not like a player, it's not as secure as a player's contract. I'm down in two lads.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

I'm down in two. We'll get to that.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

I think he did. What's this Friday afternoon bomb squad?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Oh, so you know you mentioned about the bomb squad who who weren't involved and you go away on like trips. So in those days, I would stay back and look after the injured boys.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

So obviously, because there was nobody about, we didn't do any sat the rehab in those days. So we would do our stuff, we we would work hard on a Friday morning, but I always said if you knock your pan in, we'll we'll go and do something. So it used to be Friday afternoons we'd go to Yates in the afternoon with Thorpey and people like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Is that the one that was outrageous for a bit?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yes, before that it was the Yetys in those days, normy boozers, and um yeah, so I would take them out there, or we'd take them to one of my pubs and we'd go and have an afternoon and then but I bet they did knock the pan in as well to get the reward, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So this is what I want to ask. So you kind of had a totally different regime to any physio I'd been at, right? But I think it worked. So a lot of clubs, players are punished for being injured, aren't they? Let's managers got no interest in the mansion, no interest. So they try and make it hard for you in at eight o'clock. They think because you're in at eight o'clock and you're there till five, you'll suddenly be fit how much quicker, and the ones who are faking it won't fake it anymore. But Dolly was kind of we travelled from Newcastle together, I'd say there's four of us or three of us, and you and I'd say I'm the injured one, he'd go, listen, come in with the lads, get in about ten minutes earlier, I'll treat you, then we'll knock a pan in, yeah, and you can go the same time as them. Instead of being in a team that you've got to travel on your own, the next thing's costing you 50 quid a day. When you're isolated and all that. And then because he done that, did you find players weren't fake but got back quicker or just give you a lot more respect?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

I wouldn't say they got back quicker. I think I was just with physio, we'd we'd sort of starting playing and playing as a as a youngster as well. I I tried to have that type of mentality where I seen it when when you were injured, it was hard.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

So he had been a player. And for me, it's hard enough, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

When you're sort of coming back and you're at a level where you can do fitness aspect, injured players often work harder than players who were fit. Yeah, and I you're right. That it was seen as a uh you know, a punishment. You you were in early, you were you were finished late, you worked harder, it was get you fitted. It's all to rubbish.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

A lot of it you were yeah, this is it was in other clubs, you worked for the same two hours, yeah, you put it in to us early, absolutely. Whereas at other places you were you're nine till ten and then you're one till two, and you're like you sit around. Big gaps just making you hanging around, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

But you know, they didn't think of you, you you lads when you were injured mentally how hard it was. As you say, you travelling in from Newcastle every day by yourself, well you're doing that alone, you're having to drive, you're doing three hours, and you're doing that, it it's horrible. So for me, I thought if if if a player looked after me, type thing, as if they worked hard and I knew what they'd done, and I knew they were doing the very best what we could do to get them back, I would look after them back them all day. I think trust me by a mile. I very much trust.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Like I very much trust. Obviously, we worked together at Aberdeen, um, but you could see right away, like you trusted the boys and the boys trusted you, do you know what I mean? And again, probably because you were a player, you had that good balance of seeing it from a player's perspective of maybe we need to we need to push him a wee bit. Now, if he's a bit down, we need to push him or sometimes come off him. Now give him a give him an extra day off, give him a Monday off, knowing that he's coming in the Tuesday and he's he's feeling better. So you had a good eye for that kind of w when he went to push boys, went to hang off, went to put an arm round him and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

And I told the lads, didn't I? I said, even when I wasn't injured, it was intense our time because we're winning a lot, weren't we? Every couple of Mondays I'd go, Dolly, and he'd go, Listen, just say we'll say something, yeah. You've got the you're a bit run down or whatever, have the Monday off and then come in the Tuesday. So I made sure the Tuesday'd come in and be like, It wasn't just me done the two.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

No, no, there's plenty over the years.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

There's in fact there's loads over the years that I think you'll get the you'll always get the right right reaction off that though, won't you? You will if you get looked after like that, you think right, I knew who not to give it to as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Once you get to know your players, if somebody said, Look, I've got something on a Sunday, I've got a christening or something like that, it doesn't matter what it was, I could do with you know having a bit of a drink and having a you know get myself sorted and saying, No bother. Right, so you're texting me at X time. Sundays it used to be like midday. So much time for this movie before I used to go out. So it used to have a bit of it the right time. So latterly, I played football Sunday morning, so you could text us up till 12, but it had to be before two o'clock. Because once I got to two o'clock, I was probably three or four pints in. How'd it be in? And I couldn't I'd be in, the joiners, the sailor, the Saint Nick. Um Keys Illustrated. So I was three or four in, and by that time I wasn't going to reply back, and I certainly would have forgotten by six o'clock when I was going home. So if as long as you text, I would message the gaffer then. Lummy's got a bit of a sore throat, gaffer. I think you know, we just leave off him tomorrow. Um, he can come in with me and we'll just work in the gym and do a bit, but he should be grand for Tuesday. As soon as I could confirm that, and I knew that we were trying to choose that they could do what I wanted.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Remember when we played Doncaster away and I was injured, so we're playing them on the Saturday morning. You said, You're on the northeast, get your ankle in the sea. And I went and I put my ankle in the sea, and I just text them, not that I just say, Listen, I've done it this morning, like, and then MacDonald gave them Monday off, and he just said, Listen, have Monday off as well, because you've done that. Yeah. So he knew I'd go and do it again. Do you know what I mean? So it was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

There's a there's a good story about um Scott Dobby with with Hoppy and Graham Anthony, where we used to go out in midweeks in those days and that type of thing when we didn't really have kids and stuff like that. And uh they took him out. And Dobbs was Dobbs was such a good career, but he was very up and down in himself confidence.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

I I wouldn't describe it as a mental health thing that way, but self-confidence, right? Where he could get down on himself and and likewise he could be up there when he was scoring. But they used to take him out and look at look after him and that, so that they took him out one night up front page or somewhere like that, or buskers or somewhere like that. But they'd gone to the Howard in the afternoon and they'd got on it and they'd got Dorbes out with them. So anyways, that they basically had him out, and those two lads were proper old school foot footballers, Tony Hopper and his room at the end. Yeah, so they could drink and they would just get up next day and they would get on with it. Well, Graham wouldn't knock his pan in and training. Tony would, but Graham would train and get himself out on the pitch anyway. You know, he wouldn't be working hard, that's for sure. But anyway, so one morning they've come in and everybody's in. We're getting ready to go training, and I'm thinking, Where's he at? Dorbes, where's he at? So, anyways, texting him in those, like in those days he was a text, no picture misses, you know, that like what are you doing? Ah, doll, honestly, I'm struggling. I said, What's wrong? I've got the shit. I said, Dobbs, you haven't because you're out with Oppie and Graham that's like I went out drinking, fine, like pint for pint to match with them, and I can't I can't get out of bed. Function. Right, no bother. So you've got sickness and diarrhea. I'll go and let the gaffer know now that you've been up all night, but you better be in tomorrow training. Aye, aye, no bother, no bother. So I've come in, like, opens the door of the first team room, you and you outside, and they're like thinking, oh, what have we done? Have we done something in town because they can't remember? As a bouncer being in touch, as a burnt dub, you know, whatever. What his dun to dubs. No, why? No. I said, Out yesterday. Aye, well, we went to Howard for a few, and then we went out, we've done the page or buskers or whatever. I said, You've killed him. He can't get out of bed. I said, if anybody asks, you weren't out with him. Used to convene out, no problem at all. He wasn't there, but he wasn't there. Or he went out for a couple and he was home and he was sorted. Next day training. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

That's a class from you that you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Speaking of drinks, you taught me this a lot, and I was absolutely mesmerised by it. Nigel Pearson's magic drops.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

So Nigel was proper old school. Remember Nigel Pearson? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Nigel plays the top.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Quick one. You know how he comes across in the telly now? Yeah, he's not like that. He isn't, is he? I've met him loads of times.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

I think he just does that. Well, he doesn't just do that, he does it to speak well. The lads reckon he's great. He's quite serious. He is, yeah. Is that what you mean? Quite serious and dead pan and black and white, and he's now like controversies with journalists, but he's he's he's not like that things. So, like in he came as like manager, but he just finished playing at Burra and Cup final against Chelsea and all that type of thing. Captain. Um, I captain, captain at Chef Ward, unbelievable career, unbelievable player. So he's 37 or something like that, and comes in first managerial job, doesn't really get involved in training, but now and then he just sort of steps in full tracked and just zips balls about, and you're thinking, Gaffa, why don't you just play? Because you were far better than anything. You could play up front, no problem. So Friday nights we we always had a drink. We we we we ate usually with the lags with the crap food. Now and then we'd have a bit separate, but then we'd have a drink. Yeah, so in those days it would be like Nigel was Nigel's Prem everything, so we barely bought a drink, he would just have a tab going, and then a few pints in, I'd get on the fags, he'd be on the ladders with weeks, and in those days you could smoke in a in the place as well in things. So we'd get on things and you get a bit boozy, and as you were sort of slipping down because he was a drinker, he was a bride and he wasn't he was one of them like meticulous, didn't change at pint pint twelve guineas, didn't change, could still speak, and I'm like clumped, eyes all over the panel. You're a money stuff. So when you fell asleep, it would just dab his cigar out on your knee and you would like a halo. That's where my hair went because it was burned off and it was nothing right. But it was a thing when we drank, we were up at half seven, we were breakfast at eight or half eight, all of us. No excuses, you were there. So you would get there, he'd sit down, I'm like, Dolly, how am I here? Yeah, I'm all right, Gaffan, not bad. And he'd hand out this little bottle, and it was called Bright Eyes. It was like an off tracks. So you bang it into your eyeballs to give it an hour before we met the plate for the walk at whatever time that was half nine, ten, whatever nine, whenever it was. So your eyes were glistening by then rather than being bloodshot, and it worked, honestly, it did. Bright eyes. But now and then someone would say goodnight last night. I'd say about a dozen. It's about two o'clock. I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

But we told these eyes not went off.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

It's a long whole day, that though. If you're up at half seven, that's a long day. Yeah, it's a long day. But he but he done it so that you didn't smell of alcohol, you were you were bright-eyed, you were ready to go.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Talk us through that Jimmy Glass day, then. What what do you think this what was going to happen if you went down club folds? Oh, we would never come back.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

We wouldn't have folded, but we would have been oh bottom five, budget, everything about it, would have been a disaster. Yeah. Who was Chairman?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Night's nine. I was in the Warwick. I was in the Warwick, I remember. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

That was a weekend as well. So did you did you think did you ever think it was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Nah, we we were we were poor. We signed Jimmy, and and look, I had crack on it. I'd own a slag a player off, but he wasn't a great story. We conceded a couple of threes and things like that, and to be honest, he was probably a better outfield player than he was a goal, it was on loan from Palace, was he? Or not Swindon? It was on loan from Swindon or something like that, and he wasn't the greatest. But hey, look, these things happen. You know that Tony Hoppy actually he didn't do he didn't do the lad, he broke my mate, he broke like Gibbs and it was just an innocuous time. No, I was speaking to him the other day, he said it was just one of them and he just broke him, and it it took a bit of time to to to get him off because obviously in those days we didn't have what we spoke about, maybe it was on the verge of a move. We had we had um done yeah, it was to go for about 100 grand. I believe it he said it it was you know, it was just one of them things, but we didn't have like we had St. John's that were like 20 stones in those days, so by the time they get on the pitch and you strap them in and put a frack pack on and get them off, we took it took that time, so yeah, it was yeah, just one of them things. I never seen it coming, not not at all. And like as it happened, Jimmy just waved to Nigel, and Nigel just went away you go. Yeah, um but that game is it different for me in that reason, Jimmy. Yes, but um Maca was the manager at Plymouth, Steve Steve McCall, who played all hundreds of games all over the place, top level, yeah, yeah, brilliant fella, really good fella, and he was absolutely ran the game first half, but he was playing manager. I didn't realize he was playing manager off at half time because he was just running it, he was just bossing everything, took himself off at half time. I think because he knew deep down he was that good, yeah, 100% he was that good. He thought they never Bright scored a decent volley from the edge of the box, and then who was it? Dobbs headed the ball rat's corner, parried, yeah. Dorbes headed it, parried a back off the keeper, and Jimmy just charged in him. Seeing the blower jumps on the red, brother, it was brilliant. Dean Lambert was running brilliant. So there was a like a pylon, and he just jumped all over him, but it was great, and then the the weekend was even better. But was it just in your kit all weekend? I to be honest, I can't I can't remember. Do you know when you went up the tunnel after it in the change?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

It was it just absolute.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Steve Finney was playing Carlisle Boy, well, Penrith lad, who hadn't really played for us until that point because he went to Man City as a 13-year-old or Swindon when you were in Prem. He was in tears, Jai uh Hoppy was in tears, um bodies were just all over the parish, and there was drink just everywhere, and it just went. I'd we never went home, so I don't know, I don't know what I'd done, but I know we went up at um Leonardo's on Lonzel Street, which was basically Oscar's. Did you go up the stairs or we had food? They put a table on of about 20 odd. We had food, big Stefan was there. We never paid for a thing the whole weekend. So you shouldn't have been just I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

And then the year after, we'll do it right this time.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, we'll start preseason probably again.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

I've seen some of the pictures back in there that I was doing pre-season, anyone's got the same kit on, and it's not the first day, it's four weeks in.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah, it's I mean, I was I was doing pre-seasons in them days because I was still fit, but it was just what kit we had left because generally the kit hadn't arrived, which was always about three weeks late. Come with the come with the playing shirts, so yeah, you were just mix and match of everything.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

But what about the entrance of Roddy and Courtney? So John taking over was a great thing, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

I Roddy came before John Knighton got Roddy.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Roddy basically But it was not a lot of people know that because I didn't know that. Roddy this is why I've got the gold. Roddy basically wanted a job in England, desperate for a job in England, and obviously, brother was Steve Boxer, but but Roddy had had a bit of a career himself. He played centre forward, he was a big centre forward, he played for Newport and somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

He had doctor his basically wife admitted on the rod scores. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Andy had a plaster and business and stuff like that. So he wasn't short of a few quid himself, but he'd done all right. He had bores bohemians in them days. I think they won the league, and they were paying decent door, so he'd done all right, but he wanted to get into England, he knew that was where he needed to be. So basically, he just got in touch with Knight and somehow, and basically in those days, he basically said I'll do the job for now, or just expenses anyway, didn't need the money just a stepstone. Didn't want the wage, just basically coming for now. Maybe they got like the Paul Inns at Macklesfield or something. Something like that, yeah. So basically he comes in and and obviously he turned it round because we were we were shot. I remember when he first ever came. He turned the season round and we'd done all right, but he was at John all the time to come in and buy the club because he knew Knight and wanted Rid like out, and um, yeah, so he basically done alright. Then he got John Courtney in to come as owners the club, and then John just backed him to the hills about I think about three million quid. John told me one day. And this was 2000, 2001, 2.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

He he backed them with midweek drents, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

He did, so Rod was Rod was special, a good guy. My first three months was horrible because he didn't know who he could trust, and obviously, being staunch Irish, proddy Brit, like so. My first two or three months, I was thinking I'm getting bombed here, or and Billy Barr was still in the time, and he wasn't all that type, he won his own crew, he wanted his own crew, he had some foreign physio, he wasn't a physio, Stefan or something he was called from Bose, he wanted to bring him in, but to be fair, Nightingwood and let him, and then John by that time I'd settled with him and he was alright, he was grand with me. Um he he would basically midweek if he were doing alright, or likewise, if we were doing poo, he would just say Wednesday morning, something like that, right Dolly, uh, we're not doing out today. We're having the boys out. Boys would come in at 10 o'clock and he would say, Right, boys, don't get changed, we're meeting in the B Hive in half an hour. Wow, and that would be it. It would just be a he would pay, Roddy would pay for the lot. Now, whether they would and was it a full session?

SPEAKER_03 35:30

He was just what about the what about the lads who got like the school run at three and that? Like in Manchester.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

He would med them, he would be making them having drink, so they had to stay. They had to be there was more lads ringing their wives apologising to say we he's got us in training tonight, and and we would be out. One or two, if he knew they were a little bit older, with older kids. So if you were like getting to thirties and things like that, he would let them go, but they had to come for the poop for a couple of hours. Um the others, the younger ends, neat chance, you're not getting out of it, and it would be that would be it day and night, and then he would shoot off afternoon, clear the tab, and you've done what you wanted, but you'd be in the next day. Oh, you're in the next day though. If if if it was it just depends on what we were doing, sometimes to be honest, it didn't matter with the Irish boys. Dublin weekends. So again, he was he knew everybody in Dublin and and uh his his rewards were we're going to Ireland, so Saturday night game finished, me or Bullet Bushead would be driving the minibus up to Edinburgh or wherever we were, Prestwick, Teaside in them days, yeah, Island, Horth Park, uh Deer Park, Horth, or another hotel somewhere, and it would just be Carnage for three days. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, no, I sat there, Sunday, Monday. Monday, Monday Club, come back Monday or even Tuesday and back in training Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for the game Saturday. But with the staff, because we were his staff, and there was only me and Busshead then in Tony Elliott. But Tony Elliott was a part Irish, so the he he was that there was Bugsy, John Cunningham, Paul Key, um Bugsy was his assistant, so we would be out, but we would be staff, so we would be a little bit special. So nightclub called Lily Bordillo's, right? Niall Quinn's sister, ran it, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

So one night we goes out and and we go in the VIP area. We've got Ken Doherty, the snooker player, we've got uh Vinny Jones and his wife. God bless her, she's passed away now. Um who else was the staunch, like big Irish, uh famous idea? An act Irish actor, and waiting there just and they're all champagne up and I'm I'm on the point of whatever. Or pint of heart or a pint of cafe's and just drinking pint after pint after pint, and they're on champagne and this and that and the other with fags on. And you could just do what you wanted, you could literally do what you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

That's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

We played Shelborn. We played Shelburne one night and uh we got battered because we'd been on the drink for a day. Um Hoppy scored a worldie, we got battered 5-1. Little um oh Crikey, went to Norwich. Where's Hoolihan? Yeah, yeah. He played and he was out of this world. How old was he then? He must have just been a boy, he must have been a young one. Oh, against he played for Shelborn, and we got Richie from Foreign from Shelborn, but they battered us 5-1 because we were half buckled, half of them. And Curtis Fleming played Vinnie Jones played a I've still got a shirt. Which is Vinnie Jones. It's one of them O'Neill shirts. Did he play the use? He played the one game, Curtis Fleming. Uh is Curtis Fleming playing out of contract, we're just Irish and and obviously running new inches. He was he was up for the weekend, so he played an iron night out after that. That was we must have done at least six of them in one season to to Dublin. Pre-season.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Is that when you speak to us with the still?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Brian Wake's got Hattrick. Brian Wake's got a hat trick.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

A lot of managers do it, but you've got Xmas Day training from the that's Roddy.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

So Symo done it with the odd X Day. Roddy done it to keep in check with the Irish, not the English boys, because he knew the Irish would have a drink. So we we were in training. He allowed them to have the Christmas, didn't he? He took all the Irish. Yeah, he took the Christmas. Richie, Will McDonough, Shelley, um Trevor Malloy, not no not Murph, maybe not Murph. Murph would have had his missus at the time, so probably not Murph. Trevor Malloy, uh maybe Paul Byrne at the time, I'm not sure. Remember Paul Byrne from Celtic? No, I don't know. Good player, but bad injuries. Um he took them to his for Christmas dinner. So he lets them have a couple of drinks, but obviously Christmas Day for me is quite a special one. Yes. So I like go out at dinner time before dinner's cooked, and then um we had dinner, and then so I carry on drinking, but he had us in at eight at night. Oh, at night at night. It was just to check them they weren't drinking. What about the Tory lads? So well, exactly how to be everybody had to be in, and it wasn't training, it was just a meeting to check they weren't drinking. So he was just killing people. So I'm um a dozen deep. I'm in the crane makers, private party. Little Brendan McGill comes and picks us up, and with Amy's mum and dad, drinking in the crane makers. Um we're about eight hours deep, here. So I'm I'm little Brendan picks us up. We come into things, so I'm thinking, Jesus, I'm I'm steaming, I'm buckled, I'm at the back stinking a drink. So I'm just stood at the back leaning against the door, like and he's I'm so proud of you boys. I know you have had one or two drinks with your dinner, but I'm so proud we've got a big game tomorrow at home, X, Y, and Z, and I'm stood at the back saying, please don't look at me, don't speak to me, don't anything, because I'm tottering. And then Brendan dropped us back off the crane. Did you not?

SPEAKER_03 40:45

I reckon you had them eye things.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Oh I'll have had some, I'll have had I packs on the lot.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

So, what about this car return when he was sacked?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Oh, so he got sacked. He had he had John had got him an E-class Merck, which was big books, you know, they'd be 25 grand in them days. Yeah, he took it back to Ireland and kept it for like weeks and months. So Tony Bingley was a director in those days, God bless him. You know, he's not here with us. They made Tony get the ferry over or fly over to Ireland, and he that they basically had to watch him for two or three days, his movements, and they had a surveillance. They had a spare key from Merck. So what they'd done was they waited till he'd gone shopping or something like that. Tony Bingley ran, got in the car, and drove it back up.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Drove it back up, got the air happier after it. I wonder why he told me it was always like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Roddy was, you know, heavily quite involved with a lot of the uh the Irish uh big guys.