Grant Holt on Carlisle United - Bonus Content

Grant Holt provides his take on Carlisle United in the wake of the dismissal of Mark Hughes

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Right, big news in the Carl well, the drama that is Carl Ali and I still fused. Well, I want your opinion. Should we have done better last week?

SPEAKER_00 0:29

I think I think looking at it, I think when you look at the clubs with York, the money and the finances have been chucked behind it for the last few years and the development behind it, you you've got to look at them and go, Look, look, they are kind of favourites to be up there. Um I think roster with Jimmy Od had that head start where they're always he knows what he does, they've got the team, they've got the structure. I think if you you had Carlin into that mix where you think, well, you're paying the big money, you're paying the budget, you need to be close. And they got close enough. But uh, but to me, there was far too many games of points chucked away. But you look at it now, and obviously decisions and different stuff, like net next this year's even like paramount, you've got to do it. You're probably gonna be the biggest, you're gonna be the biggest, you're gonna have the most money. Um, best teams have gone up, best teams have gone up, yeah, they're all the way on.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Well, not crap teams, but I think Barrow will have a little go, Harriga Warren have a go.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Harriga will be Harriger. Uh the one thing about Harriga, as we well know, he's been there a long time. I mean, I've covered them quite a lot in the National League. He knows what the he knows what to do. They'll keep players, you're in and around Leeds, they'll always keep that butch, but he ain't gonna go big. That's they've never done that, then they went big, they've always been quite steady, but they'll be there thereabouts. Scunny will come up and spend a bit of money, they'll spend a little bit, I reckon. They'll have a bit of a gust. Lost Callum Roberts, I mean which are the best players. Which I lost count, he made it gone. He was at Not's county before, wasn't he? Yeah, he was Lee Clark used to take him everywhere. He he he was a good player. Um but they've got to go up. You can't be getting you can't be having the biggest budget, the most wages, and knock it up with the biggest squad.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, Mark Hughes right to go for him or for us? Both. You well I if I was Mark, I said to Mark Hughes, I thought if we went up or didn't go up, he was gonna sail away into the sunset. I thought that was him. But it seemed to me for the last couple of weeks that maybe he was gonna stay.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I think for I think for me, I think watching it and the way he is the name and the the person, I think reading a little bit too look, I don't see them as much as I see them or watching games and different stuff, but I might see them or if they're down the south or come up here. Watching and listening to a lot of sound bites and different stuff. I think a big thing for him has been recruitment and all the things behind the scenes that he's obviously hinted at, but not really came out and said. Yeah, um, I think at his age, can you be arsed with it to have that argument every week?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

So he asked for how many interviews you've got to do with this. He wants the 90 minutes adrenaline of the footy, but I don't think he wants what goes with it.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

But I think he does he just want simplicity. Do you know what I mean? It's like you've been at the top, you've been he's had a great career, he's been a great manager as well. Um, a lot of sound bites he's always saying about this isn't right, that isn't right. Can you be bothered with it? And he's probably just thought, actually, I can't bother with it. And again, he'll get another job. Yeah, someone will give him a job down like where he lives and stuff. But but for me, the money diverged in the budget that they had to get up this year. I'm not sure. Can you label it on him or can't do you label it on the players? I'm not I'm not so sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

I think he probably didn't help himself at times, but I think the players have got to do a bit better. I think in the in the playoff semi-finals, I think they were out played at home. Well, we were there, weren't we?

SPEAKER_02 3:30

And uh I mean there's a lot of negativity towards him when you see how many points they've accumulated, but they should get that many points. Yeah. And like like you say, the two above them, yeah. Um and the gate, the big games are played in against the top three. They failed against them, didn't they? They got some right touch-ins against Rochdale and and York, and and fans don't forget that because they're gonna beat teams in the bottom league everywhere. And they've got a way bigger budget than Rotterdale.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, I think the players need to take a hell of a lot of responsibility. I know so Rob Elliott announced your ex-pal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, I was I couldn't stand it with him. He was there on loan from Charlton as a as a young lad. Um, hell of a keeper. But I mean, I've not spoken to him for for a long time. But like you said, but what have they been like this year?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Because obviously he took them. The one I watched was Did we play on Boxing Day? Well, he's gone back, hasn't he? And there were a shambles when he's done tremendously.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Was he manager then? Yeah, we were three no no, it was Alan Armstrong. Was that the other mod was? It was just it was just starting. Um Alan Armstrong was the manager, but he was his dad died or something. Alan Armstrong stepped out, and I think a couple of weeks later, Elliot came in. Came in.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

He's came in with not much of watching what a great escape it's been. It has, and and and the reckon they played some right good stuff. I mean, didn't they beat York three at home?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

But this is the problem you got though, right? Like, I obviously McCahlar fan, so I want him to absolutely fly and go and blitz it. Do you know what I mean? But the problem you got now is your mic came in and it was Bop Bop Bop Central and won past 55,000 passes, which is his style, do you know what I mean? Um they brought the players in for that, and then all of a sudden we had to spend another load of money to go and get people who weren't gonna do that and go bombing it, yeah. And then now we're gonna what go back the other way with people on three-year contracts, and then and then what I'm hearing is they're not paying anyone up. No, no. So and the thing about they got Jordan John's out, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I think the rest, I don't think they'll pay up.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I think but this is my whole point. Like, you can't keep going, you can't keep changing philosophies every week and then going, we're gonna do it. This and um part of what what I heard from behind the scenes is they want the whole philosophy, so it goes from top to bottom. Well, you can't keep doing top to bottom when you're changing everyone in the structure all the time. So um, and to be fair, it's one of them things, isn't it? To me, to me, it's a shampoo's like that. The need to be up and they need to be in the league. You can't be you cannot be getting like I'm on a rant now, and go on, yeah. You can't be getting 16,000 fans at your home game and be in the National League, yeah. And something's gone wrong. How many years have we gone up and gone down and this and then we have everyone turns up and it's 13,000, 12,000, 9,000, 8,000, and all of a sudden we get the whole philosophy goes wrong. Like in terms of we used to be someone who produces loads of kids and sells them on, like who have we sold.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, I mean I'm not just it, but someone like Jake Allen, from what I seen, he could do a half the job of what the others done last season. Yeah, but I mean I mean we're talking about Wheeland now, aren't we? Wheeling, Rob yeah, Rob Elliott's Wheeland's ex-gaffa who got him flying at Gateshead. Now, for me, Rob Elliott comes in, he's done a great job with Gatehead, he knows the league, he's probably said to the board, I don't need to spend money here, this team will go up, I can get them up. And they should that squad for the league standard should go up. So he's probably ticking a box there, don't worry with the side.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

But then the argument but the argument being is they didn't go up. I know so if if that you you're looking at that squad and going, well, they didn't go up. If you're telling me they can go up with that squad and you want to go in in the best, you want to change it. Because York Rochdale are gone. Yeah, because you you're doing it. Well, it's a hell of a statement to say, like, oh, I'll get that team and go and do it in the National League. And the thing about the National League is like I said, it's anyone can know the National League. If you go and watch your popular guard on for another 10 years, you it's not rocket science. You get the best four in the league, you get the best wing in the league, and you get the spine, and you're there. And then the the brilliant is the manager. Look at look what Luke's done. Like, I see Luke's been at Bournemouth for years. I mean he left and then went away and came back, yeah, but he's done it on a shoestring with a little bit of budget, and he always produces a player. And they were impressive, by the way. And they go young, yeah, and they go young and they produce players and they sell they sell them on. My my annoyances with the whole thing is like I sat even Bromley. So I sat at Bromley 10 years ago and sat in their the the office, and they give me a whole plan. I sat down with them because I was there early, as I always am for the National League stuff. He gave them the whole plan of how he was gonna get them to where he wanted to be. And his plan was to get them into the league. That was it, get them into the league. That stand's gonna do this for all our education programme. That's gonna do us. We put it. Yeah, this is my whole point. We put a gym in there, and that's gonna do that. Once we've done that, and that generates the money from the school programme, we're gonna build this one, I'm gonna start renting this one out. The Astro pitch is gonna come up and put it in next door because we're trying to buy that line. The plan was unbelievable, and then it wasn't backed by loads of money. No, so how are we gonna the full route where Bromley's now gone to League One and we're now in in the National League, and we probably had a bigger budget this year than we Bromley had to be easy. I think we'll have a bigger budget than we're gonna be able to do that. But how can we not move forward? Like, do you haven't even got the training ground yet?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

I think that might collapse that.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

But how have we not got a like a proper training ground? Like, you look at the player, this is my argument with it. Like, we we were always brought on the the team that's gonna play on Sunday, I'm sure. You look at that team, all the young lads who came through it, like the laps and Tony and all them. Then you've got the next ones who came out and Dempsey and Potsey and all them law. Like, how have we not built a training facility out of that out of that money? Out of all that money to I remember going to watch Jordan, yeah, trainer at Carlo when I was in the Premier League, I think he was at the time, mate. Went up there to Coljure when he was training and shooting shots through poles. It's bad, isn't it? And I'm like, how are we why are we not doing it properly where that's our bread and butter and that's what we become with 16,000 fans who are sat behind it? It just baffles me. Academy still train at Dalston, they're still there now. How are you gonna get any better? How if we're producing players like look at the size of Cumbria, right? And Scotland and all these little places, look at all the places we're around and how big we actually are, all the way to like Newcastle, because if you've not got Newcastle or you ever gone Sunday or going down the road, yeah. How are we in a position where we don't have an academy that's elite enough to make these players better? And also the same point is how have we not got the people like yourselves, for instance, who are not coaching in the academy or being anything to do with it? We've got so many ex-pros that live around this county that have got nothing to do with coaching our kids. I think they've got to make it, we've said it a few times, they've got to make it.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

We've all had conversations before, and I think other teams do it well, like the North East Clubs. They get the lads in their community to do all the paperwork for them, they have an input, but say a skip's coach tonight and he's got to go home and then do paperwork on every single player. Well then put your money, but then other teams get the young lads at the college community to feel voice knowing.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

But if we've got that, if they've got the money that we're supposed to have behind the scenes and the money that's supposed to come into the club, and I said this when I years ago when when everyone, even Fred and everyone were in there, that's fine. We Fred had to do the other bit because we didn't the team was going the other way. But how can we be as a club as getting 16,000 fans, albeit not all the time, but like a good crowd every single time? How are we in a position where we produce so many players? James Trafford, Scott Carsons, yeah, Anderson, Anderson, and and that whole group, and we haven't got a facility that's going to make them even better. We've got the nil. We used to be in the nil was either. I think it's still the same pitch. It's still the same pitch. It's still the same grass and the goals. And this is my argument. It's like we can do whatever we want and we can dress it up whichever way, and the team can do well to League One. If we want to be a proper League One team with sustainability and everything behind it, we have to produce our own unless someone starts coming chucking millions. And this is my thing with it. It's like we always talk about our everyone says Carlo's a big club around for the level and this. Yeah, it is, but we've got no infrastructure behind it. People might come on and slag me up and tell me something completely different. But I I think we need to, in one way, yes, you've got to have the first team and you've got to give them the money to go and do it. But you've got to look at look at the thing. Look at Barrow, for instance. Barrow's a prime example. Have they got any kids who play from Barrow or Cumbrie or anyone in that group? I don't think is anyone in announcement. They've got Newby haven't there? Um yeah, but he had to go away. And that's what they and they train in Manchester, they've done that for years, they train in Manchester, and that's the group, and that's the way to do it. But we have to be, we have to be for me as a football club. We we need to we need to tidy up that whole academy. There's so many good people here that who have been ex-professional to live around here that aren't involved in anything. We had it in Norwich for quite a while.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

There was a Norwich always seems a club that have got so many ex-players involved.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah, we well, they had a spell where we had a they had quite a few, and then there was a spell where none of them were there. And now if you look at like where we are, I'm doing the 14s, uh Simeon Jackson's doing the 16s, uh, Christopher was in, he's just left. Um, Al Nielsen's doing the 21s, um Alan Lee, I was up there.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Did they so did they not even live in Norwich, but they've done like you, they've just looked at them? Yeah, gone back and stayed there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

So and if you look like even in our um community sports foundation, Simon Lappin's in there, Adam Jewry's in there, uh there's a few lads who were the six lads in there who used to be in the academy who'd be step three, step two. Yeah, yeah. They're all in the setting to try and present, and don't get us wrong, Norwich ain't perfect because it's you're talking to cat one, but they've invested back into making sure that the coaching programme is as good as it can be. So the ones that we hope are going to get there are gonna get there. But the problem we've got is the first team is so far away from where the 18s are, we have to send them out to to kind of bring them back. What do you think of stats used in what in terms of what?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Well, we go on about stats quite a bit, it's used quite a lot. Um, I feel that players now, well, I know players now come off the pitch and it's like 93% pass rate, but they've not five yards, they've not, yeah. And then they're sit.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Dylan would have been great.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

No, but they're all they're all safe stats, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And an assist is now you pass it to you and you get it to four yards.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Assist across, it's like anything, it's like anything with the stats. We uh we have it where like yeah, you can use them for everyone, you can punish people with them when you want. My biggest thing is like I've looked I said I was at West Ham for two years as a first team, first team scout, and we had them all stat bomb, all the other ones. I can zoom in, tell me who crossed left, right, etc. If you haven't got the person who goes and watches them and stands there and sees it, you're they're pointless, absolutely pointless. Because the moment that person watches that video, the stat I always say with the stats, the stats should take you to where you need to be. So it could be the best centre forwards at Barnsley, we go and watch him, it gets you a watch. We go and watch him, yeah, and then we work out why he is the best. Yes. So then if you're good, so for instance, there was a guy who was playing, scored loads of goals, um, and everyone's like raving about him, for instance, for West How. So we watch the game, went to the game, watched three games, watch the game, watch the game, watch the game. Really quickly worked out that the the number 10 and the winger he played with are basically giving him tappings and he's tapping them in. He still has to tap them in. Yeah, like he has to tap them in. So then the good scout, if you're a good one, you then go away, and then we try and find a game where the wing is not played, and see what he's like. So we went back and literally we all watched a game when the wing wasn't played, and not one of us signed him because the key was the winger and the ten were the key to him when he didn't play. So then you'd probably go and sign the winger, yeah, because it's obviously pretty good. Yeah, yeah. The problem because we you get store stat let that if the stat tells you he's the best, he's the best, and you sign him, that's where you got the problem. Yeah, yeah. And the same with matches like oh he ran 13k. Well, after his own tour. After his own chasing his ball, he's just give away.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

What about I got one one time off Neil MacDonald? You know, I went, we're three and a lot. I'm sitting in, we've got a game Tuesday, just keeping everything tight because we've got a game Tuesday. Do you want us to pointless needless running?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Neil Lennon at Forest, lad doing tricks in the in the middle of a uh middle of the the 5v5. I think they're winning 3-0 in this like 6v6. One of the young lads doing tricks, stepovers, and this that the other ball came to Lenny, Lenny took his finger, oi, you do that, you make yourself a millionaire.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

What was it one time? Someone was doing tricks, a young lad and Bobby Saxon just went, come yeah, and you got the lad to dribble, and you put a someone else like 10 yards away, and he went, Go on, and he'd pass it, and he'd go, I'll give you a head start, dribble, dribble, dribble, and nearly got the lad pass it. You went, it's quicker than the dribble. There's a place for dribbling, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

The world's gone by stats and things, and this tells you this now. Obsession obsession now, isn't it? Yeah, no, that said, going back to the Mark Hughes thing, is that a pro is that the problem? Are they trying to stat it up? Are they trying to just go down? I don't think he was going the other way. I think he No, that's what I'm saying. Is it is it the fact that that's the route they're going down and he doesn't want that route? There was a lot of stats in the club at the end. I know Frankie as well. Frankie was obviously at Norwich, so they're probably definitely the old way. I like him. I've watched him on a Tuesday afternoon like the old used to do in the old reserves, and then you go, Oh yeah, he does that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's what I want. I don't want him who might do that. I need him who needs to do that because you haven't got time.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

I think they're benefit gonna benefit from, and I'm not disrespectful, well, I am how bad the league is, how strong our squad is with a couple of and I think you've got you've got to go up this year. Like, I'm I'm sorry to put pressure on Rob Elliott and it's shit on him, but the situation we're in, that we're not timed to build, and if you've got a first.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Oh, you don't think you're not thinking they've told him though that that that that it's a must? They must have done it.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

But there can't be a must know about it, but it was kind of building. It was the project, wasn't it? It was a project project. Like, yeah, we're time. Like they tried that with Mike, and like I know I'm like, I know Mike quite well. Do you know what I mean? They tried it with him, and that was the project. That's what we're gonna be. We're gonna be this passing blah blah blah. What that last eight weeks? Eight weeks, we had a thousand passes and we weren't scoring. No goals, you know. Well, that's a point, yeah. Like, there's no I always said that I was saying to someone, remember last time we played in the hoppy game, yeah, and then obviously before, and I remember walking in and I said about um George Garney. Remember I asked George for the picture, and George thought someone was bantering him, right? George thought someone was taking the piss out of him because he wouldn't want to get a picture with us. But I was at the Premier League at the time, and I was like, no, no, no, I like I need a picture with you. The reason I went to the car game is because he'd done everything that I expected. Yeah, he ran, he fought, he elbowed, and he'd score goals. Because I did everything, but that that's why you go to watch football because that person's gone in. You're not going to watch them do a thousand passes, go sideways and backwards.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

And that's why Luke Armstrong and Georgie Kelly are some of the favourites.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

But that's why you need but that's that's my whole point to what I said to him. Learn what your club is. Yeah, our club is about hard work and people who graft, leave everything at the end of the pitch. And if you do that and you lose, they'll take it. But if you if you don't do that and then you don't win, you've got no chance exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Right, and on that, by this the time this comes out, we would have had our weekend, Tony Hoppman's 50th, wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Um ball on Saturday night, and then a little kick around two o'clock on Sunday. On Sunday, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

No Cliver Carlo, did I have Clever Carlo?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Well, stay tuned for his episode dropping and how he could have. I'm still well away from him in mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Right. Are you in the Carlo team? Oh, you're getting it. As good as this. Are you in the Carl team?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, it'll be a great weekend. It will. Uh we'll look forward to it, and there's loads of raffle tickets, so there'll still be some sold next week, I think, and we'll put a link up again. Yeah. Check out the link. Cheers, Holty. Thanks, boy. Thank you very much.