From Stay-at-Home Mom to C-Suite: Taunya Williams' Late-Bloomer Playbook

Risha Grant sits down with Taunya Williams, chief of staff at UNT Health Fort Worth. Taunya traces a path that started not in a boardroom but at home: she was a stay-at-home mom for nearly a decade before a CEO gave her a first leadership role and started her "from the ground up." Hampton-bred and Baylor-educated, she shares how imposter syndrome and years of living in fear nearly stopped her, and why going back for her MBA in her forties became her defining play. The conversation digs into the hardest pivots — leaving a marriage to a professional athlete, leaping from financial services into a healthcare startup — and learning that real leadership means admitting what you don't know, leading from values, and caring about people as human beings. The throughline: there is no straight path to success, you can be a late bloomer, and "you can have it all — you just can't have it all at the same time."

Chapters:
0:00 Meet Taunya Williams, chief of staff at UNT Health Fort Worth
1:09 From stay-at-home mom to a first leadership role: "a career, not a job"
2:56 Finding out who you are and learning to "do it afraid"
6:32 What her kids taught her about leadership and being human
9:46 "If I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room"
11:30 The defining play: going back for the MBA in her forties
13:31 Marriage to a pro athlete, imposter syndrome, and knowing when to pivot
16:01 The biggest risk: switching from financial services to healthcare
23:00 Leading scared: values, DEI rollbacks, and standing on what you believe
28:36 Greatest leadership win: caring for people through a startup layoff
34:38 Authenticity, norms, and the "bonnet culture" debate
38:55 Rapid fire: superpower, kryptonite, buzzwords, P-Valley, and Suddenly Single
44:14 The legacy: no straight path, late bloomers, "you can have it all, just not at the same time"

Taunya's book, Suddenly Single: https://www.amazon.com/Suddenly-Single-Taunya-Wade-Williams/dp/B0C2SRHD7Q

Be Better Than Your BS is an original talk show from Zerlo Network, hosted by Risha Grant. Streaming on Roku and Amazon Fire — search: Zerlo Network.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What's up y'all? This is Big Better than your PS with which the grant the people's chance. No fluff, no filters, just real women with real receipts. Talking leadership, life, pressure, purpose, and what it really costs to show up for. Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or building something of your own, if you've ever felt too much for some rooms and not enough for others, pull up a chair. These conversations are frequent. This is Zarlo Network, powered by people who make it possible. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Risha Grant. Today on Be Better Than Your BS, we're rolling with my girl, Tanya Williams, the one who runs the room at UNT Health Fort Worth as chief of staff. She's the brains behind the moves in the president's office, smooth operator in operations, communication strategy, and more. Tanya's got two decades plus of turning chaos into clarity. From billion-dollar health contracts to startups, branding, and winning at every level. She's Hampton bred, Baylor educated, and brings that Delta Sigma Theta Hustle. Tanya, let's do this. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad you're here. Oh man, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

So I have to ask you, because I've known you for years and I knew you to start in marketing, but always like what was the aspiration to be in leadership?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Early on, so I started my career as a stay-at-home mom. I was a stay-at-home mom for almost a decade. Okay. So I'll be honest, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. Um when I was at Hampton, I thought I was gonna go to law school. Um, I got married two years out of Hampton, hadn't really started my career. And so I didn't know um about my leadership abilities. I didn't really fully understand, but uh my first job I got after being a stay-at-home mom, and I uh met with a CEO of the company that I went to work for, and I told him I was looking for a career and not a job. And so um, and he saw something in me. He gave me my first leadership uh role, and it just sort of started me actually from the ground up because that's the way he started. So he started me the lowest on the totem pole in the company, and I think it was a test to to see how um serious I was. And after about a year, he gave me a leadership um sort of uh committee responsibility to see how I would do there, and then eventually I became the marketing director and kind of went on from there. So that's when I kind of got the bug and thought, I think I could do this.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Okay. Now let's talk a little bit because you said stay-at-home mom, and I think that's important for our audience because first of all, it's the job.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It's the best job and the hardest job you'll ever have.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

It is the job. It is a job I I didn't think I could do it all. I didn't think I could have kids do the business, do the live the life that I wanted. So, first of all, respect and props for doing that. But can you talk a little bit about that that journey of being a stay-at-home mom?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

And because you went to college, like was that the Yeah, I never thought that would be my life. Um, I grew up, you know, in a single parent household, although my dad was around, but you know, it's pretty much my mom and I. So I never thought that would be my life. It it didn't even enter my consciousness, you know. Um, and frankly, it was tough because uh I got married so young right out of college. All of my friends were doing their thing, living their best single lives, you know, in big cities around the country. And I'm here with uh two babies and living also a different life that they didn't know anything about. But I really felt a little bit like a dinosaur at that time, you know. And when it all sort of ended, wondering what in the world do I do now? Because I don't even know one who I am, I don't know what my skill set really is. I haven't built a resume, like what so I went all in, like sort of just say yes to things and even and just do it afraid, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Talk about that journey a little bit because I think a lot of women out there are at home with kids. They want to get into the workforce, they don't know who they are. You said something big. I didn't know who I was. I think so many women struggle with that. Even even if you don't have kids, like it's just something. So, how do you figure out who who am I?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

You know, I took out so I'm I'm a very intentional person. You know, I'm a Virgo, so we're all very, you know, so I'm very intentional. I'm always trying to level up, always trying to be a better version of myself. So I knew that it was a time for me to try to figure out who I was. I was, you know, 20-something years old when I got married, started having babies right away. So there was a lot about life that I just did not know. So I was intentional and I took risks, you know. I took um a role that I felt I was overqualified for, and I was, but I needed to learn what I didn't know, and so it was good to do that. So having courage to do things that you don't really know and go out there and do it afraid. Just do it, you know, really.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

You hear do it afraid all the time, and I I almost honestly think if you don't do it afraid, you're not gonna do it because you're always scared. I'm I'm always scared. Even this, I've been in TV really since I got out of college, but I'm so nervous about this whole thing. Sure. You know, just yes, I'm I'm just like, yeah, it it feels like courageous.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

You're being courageous, and you never know what will happen. So you just go out there and do it because what I have learned is the people you see that are high on the mountaintop per se, right? All of them not really uh smarter than you, don't have a better mind than you, like you realize, oh, I belong at this table too. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

And especially as women, yes, we have to belong. But then as black women, we have to belong. Is there a recipe for success in belonging?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Well, one thing is you need to um you need to figure out who you are, figure out what's important to you. And also I tell people all the time when I'm mentoring um folks, understand what your non-negotiables are. Because in corporate America, you will be probably asked to do some things that may conflict with your personal um views about certain things. Of course, nothing illegal, nothing like that. We're not going that far. But just things that maybe you're like, uh, I don't really agree with this decision, but you know, you're a leader and you have to you have to do it, but it's in the way that you lead. Um lead from a human perspective, caring about people and all those kinds of things, I think, is really, really important.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So we're still in the pregamp section where we're really talking about mindset, right? And so I'm thinking, what did your kids teach you about about leadership, right? And about your mindset.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

So I I love that baby stage, and when they're young, you control their whole world, and you know, you are their whole world. When it starts getting difficult, I tell people all the time, is once they leave elementary school. Because uh influences become more important, friends become more important than than parents, and I was a bit of a disciplinarian. A bit, a little bit. And so uh, but my kids are amazing, they are very successful, smart, um, just doing great things, but I think pouring into them young and parenting them. I wasn't interested in being friends. Yes, neither was my mom.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

She had me at 16 when not telling me she was not my friend, and I knew it.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I'm not your little friend, don't want to be your little friend, I don't have broke friends. So it's a no for me. But now we're best friends, you know. Yes. My son and my daughter, we talk all the time, we talk about everything. They've taught me so much and they teach me so much, even today as young adults, you know, because the relationship changes, and now I'm I tell people I've moved into a consultant and not manager in their lives, right? You know? So um, but they teach me a lot just about love, about unconditional love, about acceptance, about how to guide young people through life, and also about wisdom and how I love the wisdom that I have at this big age I am now. I embrace it and I can impart wisdom. You know, I have been married, I have been single, um, I know what those worlds are like. I have been single as uh a grown, fully, you know, made adult and all those types of things. So I I understand both sides of that coin and I can give some good advice there. I can give good advice about career, and so I think it taught me to sort of step into my wisdom and be comfortable with what I know and also be comfortable to tell them what I don't know, you know, because as your kids get older, they see parents as people, like as I'm a human being, so they start to see all your flaws, yes, yes, you know, and all those things. But I think that's healthy. They see me as a human being, they know my struggles, they support everything that I do 110%. I have no bigger fan club than my children, and so they they are my whole world.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

I love that so much. So tie all of that into leadership then because I heard so many parallels.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Being good with what you know and also being good with what with what you don't know and getting advice. I talk to my girlfriends all the time, you know, those um that are parents, but some that aren't parents, like so. I need to talk through this. And we do this amongst ourselves all the time. And and I think that's really important because we don't always, we don't know, we don't come with a parent handbook, okay. For this problem, go to chapter 14. No, you don't know you know what to do. We're figuring it out too, but having a circle of friends that I can confide in when I'm struggling is important too.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

But in heading over to leadership, yes, and with your employees that that you run, do you have a circle still? And are you as transparent with you know what I don't know?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yes, I am very I'm transparent with the people I lead as well, um, because I think it's important for leaders not to pretend that they know everything. And I think a good strong leader surrounds themselves with other strong people who um can speak to my weaknesses. So if I'm not a heavy detail person, I'm a very big picture person, I know I need somebody on my team who is gonna be in the weeds in the detail to make sure we all come together and and have a good end product, you know. And so understanding where your weaknesses are, I think that comes from parenting as well. I think it it makes a more authentic leader when people can see that I'm okay with saying I don't know. Yes, and I don't want to, if I'm in the the smartest person in the room, I'm probably in the wrong room. You know what I'm saying? And so I don't mind that, but that's I think a big challenge with leadership because a lot of leaders feel like that makes them look weak, and I think it's the total opposite.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

It is a huge challenge, especially as we look at what's happening around the world in our companies. I don't think that people feel like they have whiplash in these companies because it's like, oh, you said you believed this, but you actually don't, do you? Are you scared? Like, what's happening? I really want to get into the this next segment here and talk more about leadership, talk about the risk, talk about the plays. So we're gonna uh we're gonna get to it in just a second. We'll be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. The warm-up is done, y'all. Now we're about to talk about the real moves Tanya made when it was time to step up and change the game, okay? So every leader has a defining play. What was your defining play?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Um, I will always say my defining play really was deciding to go back to school and get my MBA. Uh it changed everything for me. Um, I have always been in school. I love to learn. So uh I was working on a master's degree when my children were small, like um toddlers. And um life happened. Uh I had to leave school, uh, you know, following my ex-husband's career and those types of things. Um, but the MBA, I always wanted in the back of my mind. Nobody knew I always wanted it. It was something about people with an MBA. I just thought, oh my goodness, can I like you got a master's, but if you got an MBA, uh oh, that's a whole different level. And there was a time when I didn't think I could. Like I didn't think I was smart enough. I didn't think I had I had a picture in my mind of what it meant to have an MBA. And I decided to go back to school late. So I was in my 40s. Um, my daughter was a freshman in high school, my son was a redshirt freshman in in college playing ball. Um, and that's when I decided to go back to school.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I was about to say, wait a minute. The worst possible part.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yes. Her senior year, his freshman year. I just decided you're just gonna have to do it, afraid. If you get in, you're gonna do it, and you're just gonna keep the end in mind.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

What made you think you couldn't do it?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Oh, because I lived a lot of my young life, um, probably mid-30s to early 40s in a lot of fear. Uh, I had a lot of imposter syndrome. I think it came from being a stay-at-home mom. I was married to a professional athlete, and they just eclipse your whole being, really. If you, you know, professional athletes, it it takes a special grit to have to, because it they are the universe.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Well, you know, okay, this show has a heavy sports theme. Yes. So I'm gonna I'm gonna jump into that a little bit. Talk a little bit more about what it looks like to to be with somebody that has that kind of light.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

It's difficult. You know, now there are a lot of things that are great. There's a lot of accoutrement that comes with that light, right? But uh, but there's uh another side that's very, very difficult. And the and especially when you marry um somebody and you're so young, and he was much older than me. Okay. Uh, and so I didn't even know what I didn't know about life, right? And and so uh it was pretty deep to marry um a professional athlete so young because you're just now coming trying to come into who you are. So I think for me that was a little stunted, but I always pride myself on being a late bloomer, you know, and and that's just what it is. So I didn't really start blooming. Just the decision to leave that relationship was one of the most dis difficult decisions I've ever made in my life because a lot of people don't leave that life. And when do we know it's time to move? Literally, I woke up one day and I I literally woke up and I said, Yep, I've had enough. That something had happened that morning, and I was like, I'm done, and went to see an attorney that day. And I knew I had to.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I find out uh women when they tire, it's a wreck. It's a wreck.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

We've said for years this is a problem. We need to change this, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not kidding. I woke up that morning, I dropped the kids off at school, and I drove straight to an attorney's office.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

And what I'm hearing, Tanya, the more we talk is the the life, the life lessons. It they're what drove the career lessons, and I and they do for all of us, really. But I don't think we we look at it as much like we we have all these things that we're doing, and at some point we look up and we're like, okay, that all came together. It came together in the way that it was supposed to. But the things you're talking about, imposter syndrome, and I didn't think I could, so many women, so many women. We don't think we can. So many black women. You add the layer to that, and I know people may be watching this saying, why does she keep making that distinction? Because there's a it's it's different. It is it is really different. And so can you continue to just really speak to how all of that morphed into leadership? Like what was the biggest risk that you had to take or the biggest failure that maybe helps you fail forward?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh because I believe we see people on the, you know, in these positions, and you think, oh, they've always been winning. Yes, absolutely not. That's not my story. I've lost a lot. So, but I fail forward, you know. Um I think the biggest um risk I took was changing careers. So I've always been a marketer. Um and I've changed a few times, but changing industries is what I mean. So I was in, I started my career in financial services, so I worked for banks, uh, credit unions, and things, and I just was not really happy or fulfilled. I had made it to be the CMO, the chief marketing officer of an organization here in Dallas. And um it just was underwhelming for me. I wasn't happy. It wasn't, you know, it was kind of that pinnacle moment, and I'm like, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. And um, I always wanted to be in healthcare, actually. And so uh that's when I decided to go back to school, get my MBA, um, in a healthcare sort of focus, and I switched careers and and went into healthcare. That was a huge risk. In my 40s, after not working the first 10 years of my career, so I had only been working uh 10 years, so I was kind of mid-career when I made that decision. That's a huge risk. Everybody can't just leap um from one industry to another. Uh I got a job working um at a startup, and oh man, a healthcare startup, my favorite job I've ever had. The only reason I left there is because we sold the company, which was the goal of uh so it was uh a great but such a great experience. Um and that's how I I leapt from financial services into healthcare. But that was a big risk of just switching uh industries.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Okay. So what was your after you got into that industry, what was that big move or that bold move that everybody thought she's crazy?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Well, frankly, it could be the move I just made where I am now. They were recruiting me to be there marketing uh lead. They were looking for a marketing uh person recruited me for that. Uh after I had my interview with the president, uh the I had an I was on campus all day, interviews all day, final interview with the president. It went amazingly well. The HR person calls me the next day and is like, well, I got some good news, but also some bad news. I'm like, okay, I don't know where this is going. And he's like, Well, um, you did great. Yeah, we don't want you to be the marketing person. Um, the president wants you to be her chief of staff. She had been looking for a chief of staff for over a year. I had no idea that this was, you know, and um I'm like, what does that mean? Everybody does chiefs of staff so differently. Yeah, so I'm like, I don't even know what this means. Like, send me some information on the role, like, and and it was just inspired, and so I took a leap, but it was scary because I'm like, this could be a defining moment.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Because I am well in my career now. I am an executive and taking a role outside of marketing, I hadn't done that in over 20 years. But I absolutely, this is the perfect role for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

So, a woman that's looking to climb the ladder and they come and they're looking for a job from the chief of staff, what do they need to have? What's important to you? That's not on the resume.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Resilience. Uh you must, I think, uh have high EQ, so you need to know people, you need to be able to relate to people, all kinds of people. You need to be able to see people for who they are. And how do you pull really good leaders? I think make other great leaders. They don't make followers, right? And so can you pour into people to help them blossom and grow and achieve what what they their goals are for their career, right? But I think those things are are just so so so important. The soft skills. Those soft skills. And you and you're hearing now that's a lot of the conversation being had right now when you are in conversations about leadership and corporate America and what's missing and those types of things. People come very educated, they come with great experience, but they don't have those soft skills. And I see it every single day. I can relate to just about anybody. Um, I love building strong, high-performing teams. That's like my jam, you know, and it's because I really do love people, and I believe that everybody can win, and I'm not threatened by your success. Right. Just like you shouldn't be threatened by mine, because what's for you is for you, and what's for me is for me, and the pie is big enough for all of us. And I think people want to work for people like that who see them as human beings, know that they have a life, and work is not their whole end all be all life, and it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Okay, so we just had a guest that's like it's everything, it's no work-life balance. It's it does not exist. You either want this or you don't want this. If you want this, this is what it takes. Talk about work like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

And I know you're like laughing. Like, that's a myth. So that person is an entrepreneur, too, right? Yes. And I think it's a maybe it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

That person hires people that won't work like that. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

You're so right. You're so right. So I'm a big work-life balance person at this point in my life, and I think because I've been grinding for a long time. Yes, and now I want to be able to enjoy. I love to travel, I love to get together with my girls, I love good food, I love, you know, I want to do those things that I love because that's how I can remain a great leader. Yes. If I if I don't have balance, I'm not good if all I'm doing is working.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Maybe we need to talk to our girls.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I think maybe we do.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

But I'm just at a stage of my life where I'm trying to have more work life balance because as an entrepreneur, you don't Yeah, you don't really, yeah, you don't think you can really have it. That's right. And a lot of times you can't. Yeah. But I think it's the older I get, I agree. It's so important.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

It's so important for our mental health, our emotional health. There's a A lot going on in the world right now, and I think we have to find ways to keep our peace and our joy. And so uh me having uh work-life balance is important. Like I'm after this interview, I'm going home packing and getting on the road for to do some things for me, you know. So I just think that's important, and I think that makes a well-rounded leader. If they see if my team sees me taking time off, they know it's okay for them to take time off. When leaders say, oh no, take your time. We want you to have your vacations, but they never they're working 60 and 70 hours a week. You're demonstrating that that's really not what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Exactly, exactly. I love it, I love it. We have more for you in just a moment. We'll be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. She ran the play. Now let's break it down. The wins, the lessons, and the BS, she had to cross over to keep moving. So this is my question for you. There are the world is so different. I mean, just different overall, right? But especially in business. And we touched on this a little bit earlier, but leaders are giving employees whiplash. They're giving the world whiplash. And I personally think that the corporate world and our businesses are there are places where you can actually be a be a leader as a corporation. You can say, you know what, I don't care what the world is doing here, you're gonna have work-life balance here, you don't get fired for being gay. Here, you know, we can make these rules in our companies. How can a leader truly lead today in in when they're scared as well?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah, oh man.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Because they're scared. It's like, yeah, we've been talking about DEI and we've been on this road, but now we couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

And so, and that's just one example. There are so many other ones out there. I just want to hear if you speak to how do you lead when you're scared? Because a lot of people are scared.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

You're right, a lot of people are scared, and rightfully so. I mean, I I understand the fear. Uh this is a really difficult question, right? Because um of the environment that we're in right now, um, companies have to be careful. I think there's a way to um sort of keep yourself out of the crosshairs without betraying the people who have helped build your business. You know, we've seen some of those examples where people or businesses are making decisions and have suffered because of those decisions, right? Um, and it's because they haven't really been balanced in how they manage. I know for us, our values drive our decisions. And we more than people would think at the leadership level, we are talking about our values all the time. When we are making decisions, we are putting them through the filter of our values. And does this align with that? And if we are sticking with our values, then um showing that we care, having leaders that actually care about people. Um, so we are dealing with this every single day, making difficult decisions. You know, I work for you know a university, we're a heavy research university, um, so we have been affected by a lot of the things happening, so we're having to make some decisions, um, but the decisions are always sort of people first and uh values first. But for corporate America, it's bottom line driven. Uh there's not a lot of there are some companies out there who genuinely care about people, it's built into the frat fabric of their companies. But as we've seen with these rollbacks, it's it's sometimes companies give a lot of lip service to things because it's the popular thing, but you can see that they didn't maybe really mean it per se, right? And so uh, but the companies that do, you can see that, and those are the the leaders who are courageous, really.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Why do you think they're not stepping up? Because there's power in numbers, first and foremost. You can't just have one over here and one over there, and everybody internally saying, Oh, well, I we don't believe like that, but we're being quiet, which is what I hear a lot. How do we really step out and say, Look, this is our value. This we we will we will die on this hill for this, because it's important. The culture of any business is the people.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

They are the people, they're your biggest embedded. They're gonna go outside this company, they're gonna talk good or they're gonna talk bad about you. In today's climate, how do we do it?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It's it's uh it's difficult, point blank, period. Like you can't gloss over it. It takes a lot more conversation than I think we have time for today. But I do think that um your point that there is power in numbers, and I think companies are fearful of being stepping out there and then dangling out there all on their own because then they're in the crosshairs, and then uh it becomes detrimental for their uh and then you got to think about people companies have um uh shareholders that they're responsible to. We live in a capitalistic society, and so capitalism is driving a lot of these decisions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Thank you for that. I'm trying to um because I'm disappointed. Yeah. And I've been telling my clients I've spoken for some of the biggest clients in the world. And when I have the conversation with them, um it's it's disheartening. Yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, you did all this work, you said all these things, these people still work here. And so, and it's not just I talk about DEI because that's a world that I that I'm from, but as an employee, as a person who said, Finally, somebody is paying attention, and we know what the world looks like now, these people are not coming to work with the same level of of um, I don't know, just the the strength of this company cares. So I just I I don't want to jump on the my horse about it, but I just it's corporate America, it's cor corporate America and corporate America has a place and it is to stand.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, and this is an environment too that we've really never been in. So I think companies don't even know what to do, yeah, how to navigate this. You know, we're we're all trying to figure it out, and I think that's part of it too. True, true.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

So, what's been your greatest leadership win? Not for the company, but for the people that you lead? What's what's the win?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Building relationships with your team, making sure that the people know you truly care about them. So I can remember uh actually at the startup I worked at, uh, we went through a really rough season. Uh and our uh we were backed by um private equity, and our PE firm uh was winding down their relationship with us. They had been with us for several years, they were getting out of the space. But that was detrimental for for us.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Or you say PE, private equity, private equity, I'm sorry, yes, private equity. That's fine. Just want to make sure everybody knew what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yes, private equity. Okay, and so we had to find another private equity firm. So we had to, um, as the marketer, I had to re-message us, uh, completely new sales decks, the whole thing, rebranded the company, did a lot of things. Um, but we wound up having to do a layoff because we just and like I think I cried more than the people being laid off. Like, but uh, because it we were a very tight-knit team, it was a smaller company, um, and we had gone through the fire together and then having to let these people go. What I can say now, looking back, many of those people, most of those people I'm still in contact with to this day, still friends with to this day. Like, I I can remember one young lady because I was boo-hoo, probably not a good leadership display that day, but I was just crying because it broke my heart so much. And she's telling me, Tanya, I it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

I'm gonna be able to comfort me.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

And I'm like, this is not. So that's kind of a little bit of a failure because she shouldn't have had to do that.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

That is not a failure. That to me, that's a good leader. So that I can see.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

But we're still friends to this day. I've done um recos for her to get other jobs, recommendations for her to get other jobs and things. So we are still friends, and I just that makes me so happy that these folks at least knew that I cared about them as people. And they knew this was a tough decision that we actually did have to make for the survival of the company. And they got that. And and but it comes, that doesn't just come that day. You build that relationship over time. And then when you have to make tough decisions, um, people know it's coming from a good place and they don't feel so they're not going out bad mouthing the company because they know, yeah, I get it. You had to be a good one. She's gonna always remember that.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, she's gonna always remember that.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

So that's a that's a little bit of a win, I think.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah, that's a huge win. That's a you're somebody, nobody that has let me go has ever cried.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

So or you've been friends with them.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah, they ain't shed a tear behind letting me go.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

And that's a good point, right? You see the difference. You know when those people, because it's like a five-minute conversation, there's a way to do that. Yeah, you know, you're just disrupting somebody's life.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I have always said, I want to make enough money to hire somebody that just fires people. I hate firing people.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, it's awful.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

You have to be a really bad employee for me to fire you. Yes. Where I where I have no, just you out. I can't, I don't even want to look at you again. Like it has to be that bad. Otherwise, it it hurts my soul. Yep, agree. Because I want to figure it out. And I would think one of my leadership failures is not letting people go when I need to let them go. Because I keep thinking they're gonna figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Sometimes people don't.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

They don't, sometimes they don't. Their bliss elsewhere. You know, elsewhere. You should say help them find their bliss elsewhere. Yes, it's it's something that I continuously do work. And then the other staff, the other people around me, my right-hand people are like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 32:05

What are you doing? What that does, though, it affects the great people you have. Nothing destroys a great worker's passion than seeing uh employees that don't do as good a job um being kept on. And to me, that's the thing you have to remember. Like those folks that aren't working out, you really do have to make decisions quickly because they can kind of poison the rest of the barrel.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah, and it brings down the morale of everybody. Like, yeah, why is this person still here? Why are they making this money? And they might be over me and I'm doing their work. That's exactly right. That kind of thing. So and it you're speaking to personal culture is something that's important. It's the vibe that you bring into the room, right? The impact when you walk out, and I'm hearing you say empathy. Uh-huh. Yeah. Show that you care.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Empathy and authenticity. You know, I am who I am. Uh in any setting, pretty much. I mean, you know. Let me ask you about authenticity. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Because I get a lot of pushback. You know, my book deals a lot with authenticity. When millennials, the millennials and the generations coming up, when they hear authenticity, they like, okay, I'm wearing a fuzzy pajamas. I'm gonna put these house shoes on this hoodie. Put this hoodie on and go to work, and why should they care? I'ma do the work, I'ma do the damn job. Why does it matter? Why does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

You know, this is so this is now gonna make me sound real old. Because there are norms, right? And I think that you're right, and I find it more with this Gen Z, they're a whole different breed. Uh but you're right, they are used to being in environments where freedom of expression is kind of their language, it is what they're used to. And it's difficult, but you have to also show there are norms, there's societal norms, but there's corporate norms too. We don't show up with unless they at work, but other than that, it's a no.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

The bonnet culture is really getting to me. Oh, the bonnet. The bonnet culture is really getting to me. Yes. At home, the bonnet leave the home, the bonnet stays at the house. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

100% agree.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Okay, if y'all don't get anything else from this, stop wearing the bonnet out in public, okay? We're gonna be right back.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Beat better, beat full, break through distress. No excuses, no limits, just progress. Talking coaching.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

All right, we're not packing it up yet. It's time to cut the corporate act. We're gonna break through the BS, okay? So, what excites you most about where leadership is headed in the next decade?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Oh man, what excites me most? It's hard to get excited right now because there's so much going on. But I think um I'm what I'm hopeful for is that there's a new sort of leadership paradigm, that we we come out of this season um understanding the importance of diversity. Yeah, understanding the importance of different voices at the end. Like for real, for real. Like for real, for real. Not that we're not gonna be able to do that. Yeah, so that that is my hope and prayer, really, is that this season is going to teach us something about how we should lead in the future. And I'm I'm hopeful in some of these young uh leaders that I see coming up that hold leadership accountable to like where I work, they hold us accountable for the world. They are good. Now, G Z is good for that. Yeah, and so that makes sense. You know, because they're like, uh-uh, that's not what you said. That's not what you said we were about.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

So, what do you think the next generation of leaders will need to be better than the BS?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

They will definitely need high EQ, they need these soft skills. You know, they're coming up highly educated. Many of these kids went to these amazing high schools, amazing colleges, they've got the advanced degrees, they've got all the things. Well, they're living at home so they can do all of that and they can say what they want and exactly right. So but what is missing are those soft skills, just what you were talking about earlier, understanding about corporate culture. And like you can express yourself, but no, that doesn't mean fuzzy pajamas, and we're not trying to have our thumb on you just because we want you to become business casual. You know what I'm saying? So I I think that's that's really important. These soft skills, because they're not really taught. And the more we're on our phones, the less we do this, we're engaging with people. Um, that's why we have a loneliness epidemic in this country. People don't know how to communicate with one another anymore. And so, in my opinion, that is gonna be the difference between really great leaders and mediocre leaders in the future.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

And how much should leaders think about the future? Because I'm thinking about a client that wanted to um, they they had sleeping pods, they want their employees wanted sleeping pods. This is the millennials. And should we be open? Because see, in my 20s, sleeping pod was the car. You went to the car, you took a nap, you took a nap and you came on back in. I would think it would be hard for a company to see everybody sleeping. Is that something?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

I love that you asked this question because this is actually a thing in Asian countries. Yes, so in Japan, they have sleep pods. Personally, I don't have a problem with it because one, sleep is so important. We are sleep deprived in this country. Yes, we are. So I think having um an area where people can get some rest is not a bad thing. Now, we're not talking about coming in here sleeping for eight hours, but if you need to come in here and take a little nap, but follow the model of Japan. How do they do it? But it's a different um culture as well. But how do they do it and see these really successful companies have these sleep pods? So I think let's not throw it out, let's think about it and study how other countries do it.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

So if your team could describe you in one word, what would you hope it would be?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Actually, I'll use authentic again. I hope they say that I'm authentic. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, I got no pretense.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

What's the biggest corporate buzzword you wish we were banned forever?

unknown 38:20

Oh, good Lord.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

So many. Downsize, alignment, dovetail.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Alignment is circle back because you never circle back.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

I'm a little bit over. And right, you know. So you so-and-so-and-so, right? I mean, you know, right? I over over it. Yeah. I know you asked for one, but I have I have many.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

I see. I see you got them all. And I'm a little offended by alignment because I just, you know, I use alignment. I just used it yesterday. We need to align on this.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yawn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

What is your leadership superpower?

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Ooh, great question. My leadership superpower, um, I'm fearless. And uh, and also I know people, and I think that's a big superpower. Yes. So my kindness, my kindness, which is not a strategy, it is who I am. I think it's a good superpower.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

So, what's the kryptonite?

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Ooh, disrespect. That's gonna get me every time.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Is it when the the black woman comes out that you lose all professionalism and go get the bonnet and come on? Okay.

unknown 39:27

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

And people have only seen it a few times, but like, let's let's not don't talk to me crazy. It's a way that we can go behind closed doors. Let's not have disagreement out in the open in front of everybody. Let's go behind closed doors. I've had I've had a few of those moments. Like, let's get behind this closed door. Now we can talk, you know. But disrespect for me. In my professional and personal life, that's a deal breaker for me. Understood.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

What song would play as your welcome music if the C-suite had an arena entrance?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Oh, that's easy. The largest, baby. That's my jam right now. Big eggs to plug. Theme song. We'll be listening to it on the way home.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Okay. What is your guilty pleasure TV show that nobody will guess you watch? Ooh, um P Valley. That is the show. And when are they gonna come out with the new?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Why are you making us wait for it? Clifford. Uncle Clifford. With the best outfit. Oh, yeah, and my sorrow. I just wanted to see. Uh yeah, love her. That's Mercedes, for those of you who don't know. Yes. She is. I'm like, yes, everything, honey. I love that show. And Murda, the acting, the nuance of the character. Yes. He is playing the hell out of that role. I love her so much. So yeah, clearly I love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

I think we we might put a puff of coins toward helping y'all get that soap back out. So, what's one way you stay grounded when the weight of responsibility feels heavy?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Ooh, um, absolutely. It's my kids, my family. Um just getting around them. We're very close, so we love to be together. Um, we love to travel together, hang. So they keep me grounded. Because, and then they also don't care. Like, you thank you big time. You, you know. Yes, they ground me all the time. So they like to uh make fun of moms.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yes, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Uh your family. That's right. That's what um one of our guests was saying. Like, I'm doing, I'm traveling all the world, I'm doing all this stuff, and my brother wanna know if I'm cooking Thanksgiving. Like exactly. I I I love that about Thanksgiving. That's right, that's right. Because my family makes me think I've done nothing with my life. So I can't. If you weren't in the C-suite, what would you be doing right now?

SPEAKER_01 41:48

If I wasn't in the C-suite, I think I would, I might be um, I might be interior designing. I love doing that. Um, or like a travel influencer, because I love to travel. Yes. Um, and of course, I love to talk about things that I love. Like I was about P Valley. Like if I love it, honey, I'm gonna hype it. Yes. So yeah. You wrote a book. I don't want to let that you wrote a book. Tell us, tell us about that book. Thank you so much for the book. I was trying to keep about it. Yes. Um my book is called Suddenly Single. Uh-huh. It um I'm not a fast writer, so it took me 10 years to finish. It took me 10 years to do my first book, too. But it's loosely based on my life. It's a fun book. Um, you should have it with the old-fashioned or a glass of champagne. Okay. Um and it's really about my, I have a great circle of girlfriends, and it's about life and how you can find yourself suddenly single like I did, and um how you navigate that, and how your girls, your crazy circle friend of girls help you manage through that. So it's it's a fun, fun read.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

I don't know how you get it like well, yes, yes, and where can they find somebody single? Amazon. Okay. Because you it's hard to get through life without without your girls.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

I don't know what I I think Oprah said this years ago, but like she always said, I didn't need therapy because I had Gail. And that's how I feel about my girls. Like, although go to therapy, I believe in therapy. I have been to therapy multiple times in my life. But uh, but my girls, everything, like they know where all the bodies are buried, they know all the secrets, they know all the things, but they also hold me accountable. But you know, they make me laugh, uh, I can cry with them. Uh, there's there's nothing they've lasted through marriages and all kinds of things, right? And uh it's it's uh unconditional love that I don't know what I would do without.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yes, yes, you need the circle. Life is going to life. And to be able to have people that you can call on and people that show up even when you don't want them to. Yes. When you're just like, I I don't want to talk to anybody, and they still ringing the doorbell. Like, you need to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Literally that happened. One of my girls, I had sent a text and I'm like, hey guys, I don't want to talk about this, but this has happened, blah, blah, blah. So when I'm ready to talk, I'm gonna talk. And one of my girls, I knew it was gonna be her ring, ring. What did you read the text? I really don't want to talk, but they don't care. They're gonna check anything. They don't care.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

And you need it. You you honestly you honestly do need it. And you can sit around in your bonnet and have that conversation with your girls. Now, fast forward 10 years. What impact do you want people to say you made, not just on the business, but on them personally?

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Ooh, I want I want people to feel like I poured into them, uh, that I showed them there is no straight path to success, and that no matter how old you are, you can be a late bloomer like me and uh still live an amazingly successful life. And you can have it all, you just can't have it all at the same time. And so you can be a great mom and have a great relationship with your kids. But in a season when it's time to raise them, you need to just be raising them and not be trying to be their friends. And then and also respect the seasons that you're in, too. Like don't don't fight against it. Swim with the current and not against the current. You know, that makes sense. That's advice for me.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Because I'm I'm when I tell you I'm swimming against the current, I mean I'm just out here with the shoreline research. Yeah, I'm not, I I have been swimming again. I'm finally starting, I'm finally because I don't have a choice because it was it was uh a pivot that was out of my control.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

And quick.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

But I'm trying to learn going forward that when things happen, they're happening and they need to happen. And you know, so I I think I'm learning. I'm at the big age, you said the big age, the big age I am. I hope that I continue to learn for the rest of my life. Yes. And Tanya Williams just schooled us on what leadership and action really looks like strategic, smooth, and always resilient. She's not just a behind-the-scenes executive, she's the culture keeper, the energy balancer, the playmaker. That's personal culture. How you lead when nobody's watching, and how you lift others while you push forward. Tanya shows us that being better than your BS isn't just about the hustle, it's about how you build the culture and carry the team. I want y'all to keep grinding, keep strategizing, and keep being better than your BS. Tanya, thank you so much for having me. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

No time to regress from the boardroom table to the block finesse. Richard breaking things, working thought, no less.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

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