I Sued the U.S. Government for $1B: Dr. Colleen J. Payne

Risha Grant sits down with her longtime mentor and friend, Dr. Colleen J. Payne, founder and owner of MCI Diagnostic Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Colleen started in 1998 with a single mobile unit — a company she launched as "Mobile Cardiac Imaging" while her son was six months old — and grew it into a diagnostic operation serving locations across all 50 states. A trained nuclear medicine technologist, she walks through the journey: driving the truck herself in coveralls, adding mobile ultrasound and hospital staffing, mastering government contracting (including a roughly $35 million Department of Labor / Job Corps contract spanning 125 locations), and taking on the U.S. government in a billion-dollar lawsuit. Colleen — whose company is a service-disabled veteran-owned, minority-owned, woman-owned, HUBZone business — also teaches other entrepreneurs how to secure government contracts. Along the way she opens up about the mother who shaped her, the loss of her late husband Donnie, the son who pulled her out of grief, and why she has never once called herself "successful."

Chapters:
0:00 Cold open & welcome: Risha introduces her mentor, Dr. Colleen J. Payne
1:31 How they met in Nashville & 20 years of mentorship
2:14 First hustles, an amusement park job, and her book
3:58 The origin story: one mobile truck, "Mobile Cardiac Imaging" (1998)
7:05 The Chicago truck story
9:22 Who believed first: her mother
14:39 Government contracting, the $35M Job Corps win & suing the government
20:00 "I have never said that I am successful"
29:08 Walking unwounded & the quiet man who controls the money
36:00 Pivoting to last: morphing the business
38:00 Overtime quick hits
40:47 Grief, her late husband Donnie, and the son who pulled her out
48:13 One word to live by: "It's gonna be okay"

Be Better Than Your BS is an original talk show from Zerlo Network, hosted by Risha Grant. Streaming on Roku and Amazon Fire — search: Zerlo Network.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

What's up, y'all? This is Wee Better Than Your BS with reach the growth of people's courts. No fluff, no filters, just real women with real receipts. Talking leadership, life, pressure, purpose, and what it really costs to show up for. Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or building something of your own, if you've ever felt too much for some rooms and not enough for others, pull up a chair. These conversations are for you. This is Zerlo Network, powered by people who make it possible. What's up, y'all? It's your girl Risha Grant, and I am super excited about this show because I am bringing somebody so special to me, to all of y'all. My mentor, my friend, um, be better than your BS. We are linking up with Dr. Colleen J. Payne, the powerhouse behind MCI Diagnostic Center, the largest accredited diagnostic lab in America. She started with one mobile unit and built it into a national giant, serving all 50 states and changing the way healthcare gets done. But Colleen isn't just building for herself. She's showing other entrepreneurs how to win too, teaching them how to navigate and secure government contracts so they can scale their businesses. A service-disabled, veteran-owned, and woman-owned business leader, she's proof that breaking barriers can open doors for everybody. So let's get into the pregame and see how it all begins. First of all, Colleen, thank you so much for being here. It means everything to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Absolutely. I wouldn't do it any other way.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

I have to tell y'all, really quick, when I first met Colleen, she was winning this national award in Nashville. And I remember we were both, it was at a conference that I was going to, and I saw, I was like, oh my gosh, she is from Tulsa. She is from Tulsa. So I've got to meet this woman. And about, I don't know, two or three weeks later, I said, Would you be my mentor? And what and what did you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I think I said probably no at that point. But because she was so persistent, we are now 20 years post in the making, and what a beautiful soul that she has turned out to be. And I just love her.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Yeah, she's being nice, y'all. She was like, Yeah, you don't need a mentor. Go out here and do this thing and come talk to me if you need to. So that's what I did. That's what I did. So, Colleen, what's the first hustle you remember? What's the first hustle?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

You know what? I I've had so many hustles in my lifetime. But I think when I started this company, I started this company almost 30 years ago. My son is 29. I started this company when he was six months old. And honestly, I had no idea. But I would think that probably my first one was when I was in high school, uh, which means um I was 14, 15 years old because we got to work back then early. And one of the things that I did is I worked at an amusement park and I was 14 years old, 15. And I literally had all of the 40 and 50-year-old women reporting to me. Oh exactly. So I was I I was I was doing the most at that at that facility in uh in Oklahoma, Frontier City. And I I was I was working overtime, I was doing the most.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

So you have been this way your entire life, because I gotta tell y'all, this is the hardest working woman in business. I mean, holidays, I would drive down the street. I used to live close to her office. I would drive down the street, her car was there. Weekends, her car was there. So you have been working like that your entire life.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

You know what? I I have. And many years ago I wrote a book, and I had sometimes when you write a book, it makes you recount what you've done in your life. And so I I I remember that, I recalled that because I thought I just woke up one day and started an entrepreneur journey, but at the end of the day, it wasn't so. Yes, it was more so in terms of I've been doing this a long time.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yes. In the name of your book, please.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Interesting. I did it my way and it worked. And you know what? Now I can say it's still working.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

So let's back it up a little bit. Tell us about the journey because I think it's so interesting. I said in the intro, you literally started with one mobile truck and now have the largest diagnostic lab in the country. Can you talk a little bit about your beginning? You can.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So, and I by profession, I'm a nuclear medicine technologist, trained, uh, graduated from the University of Texas Medical Branch in Gavison, Texas, but arreared in Oklahoma and started at OU. And so I had an original idea that I used to see, as in my profession, I used to see all the family members come up. Because I did one of the highest level tests. It's sort of like the Cadillac, or I could say Rolls Royce of medicine in terms of cardiac. And I would watch all these family members come up to watch me either take their family's life, because I did a test called a myocardia perfusion scan, where we put you on the treadmill, and when you were on the treadmill, technically you could have had a heart attack. So it took a whole village. And I kept watching this over and over and over, and sometimes they they say that the best entrepreneurship is what you do. So then I thought to myself, why not bring this technology to them? Why not um look at how to bring this to rural Oklahoma? Instead of having a whole village come to me, I take the village to them. So that was the first thing that I did, and I started this company called it was called Mobile Cardiac Imaging in 1998. I took, I did a test called a myocardial perfusion scan. I had a like a basically you would think a tractor trailer built on wheels out of Chicago. And um it literally, I drove this truck around so I was not only the technologist, I saved your life. If you had a heart attack, I'm gonna jump on you and pound your chest. I drove the truck, I fell out the truck. I had lots and lots of experiences. Uh I wore coveralls, I drove this thing, and then I act like I got in there and had a beautiful day and saved your life. So that was how I started, and then it just emerged. You know, doctors would come to me and they would say, you know, can you add this? Can you add mobile ultrasound? And I don't think that I knew no. So I would say, you want me to do mobile nuclear medicine in a truck with a radioactive license to drive around the state of Oklahoma? Sure. Now you want me to do mobile ultrasound, drive around the state in 15 other vans, sure. Then the hospitals would come around and say, Hey, can you staff our hospitals? Okay, now you want me to drive around the van, save your life, drive around in 15 other vans with staff members, and then come back in and work in the hospitals and act like I was your staff, my team members.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

One of the funniest stories, I think, is when you were driving that truck right after you got in, I think you said Chicago, and a man was teaching her to drive the truck, but would not allow her to drive, and kicked him out. Oh, I kicked him. I kicked him out on the road.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

You remember that story? Yes. So amazing. I forgot about that. So I was in Chicago picking up this truck, and the truck had been sitting. Me and Reba McIntyre were picking up a truck. And when the truck started, everybody clapped, and it was just a big parade, and I thought this is amazing. Our truck started, everybody clapped, we drove out, and so now I haven't ever driven anything like that. So it was a huge truck. So on the way back, I had kind of a man's kind of man, and he was driving the truck, and and I was thinking, I got I got patience, I gotta do patience on Monday. I I don't know how this thing works, but I I'm on the ground, you have me in coveralls, and so we're driving back from Chicago, and I kept thinking, well, he's gonna let me drive. And he kept saying, No, not yet, not yet. It's too busy. And I'm thinking, I gotta drive this thing. So finally I realized this man's man was not gonna let me drive this truck that I paid $998,000 and $32 for.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

That part. That's $32.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

He was not going to allow me to drive it. So I realized at that moment, it was a defining moment. And that defining moment was you know what? You work for me. And if I had enough gumption to build a truck, have somebody give me a million dollars to buy it. So I looked at him and I, his name was Gary. I said, remember that. I said, Gary, this is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna make you. I didn't ask. I said, I'm going to make you pull over at the next station. I'm gonna put you out, I'm gonna call your boss, I'm gonna get you fired, and then I'm driving on to Oklahoma. I said, that's how we're gonna do this. I said, because if you do not allow me to drive this truck home in this traffic, I'm gonna fire you. I'm gonna get you fired right about now. So what do you, of course, that man's man do? Firing holds a whole different connotation because I had a million dollars to buy the truck, so therefore I could get you fired. So I that that is exactly what happened. That was an interesting story, yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

So tell us, who was the first person that really believed in you?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I think that the first person that truly ever believed in me would have been my mother. So, you see, I come from a large family. My mother in Oklahoma was a housekeeper. And this is a story that I probably have never ever told. But my mother was a housekeeper. She cleaned a lot of, not our families, she cleaned a lot of uh uh people's homes. And a rite of passage in that house was that when you got to be um age that you could go and work with her and help her, you would go. And so when it got to my time, my mother, I went. But see, be just being truthful, I wasn't comfortable cleaning somebody else's house. So my mother took me one a month, and I had the choice. You could go with your grandfather to cut yards, be outside, or you could come in and clean their homes. And so my mother made a decision for me not to do that. So now, prior to my, right before my mother died, I had one question to ask her. And I said to my mother, why was it that you didn't have me clean those people's houses? And she said, because it would have changed who you were.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Wow. That is powerful.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Absolutely. And powerful. And I think that she knew that. And I said, How did you know that? She said, I saw it. And so she said, I never made you clean their house. Fast forward. I don't know, 20 years, 30 years. I had a big house in Tulsa, and all my pain, all my mother's sisters and brothers, my brother, her brother was sick. They all had to come to Tulsa. And I had a round couch, and all my mother's, it was about seven of them sitting on this round couch. It was a beautiful picture. And my housekeeper came in, and my housekeeper happened to be white. And my mother and her sisters, all seven of them, sat on that couch, and they looked and they said, Never in my lifetime would I ever thought that I would see a white woman cleaning a black woman's home. They never moved from that couch for three hours.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Just watch her clean.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Just watching.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So it was my mom.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

I absolutely love that. I love that. My grandmother was a maid as well, and I would go to work with her, and I I felt the same way. Yeah. Felt the same way. It's so important that people believe in us and that we have a base. We will be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. We've set the stage. Now it's time for the big moves. Let's dive into the plays that took her from mobile units to national labs. Colleen, what was the bold move, the one people thought was crazy that actually put you on the map?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Well, you know, I I I can't even pinpoint exactly the one. I think that I've done so many moves because you know what? Many years ago, I heard uh I used to speak on the national stages and George Frazier of um the Plower Network once told me, he said, what you did in Oklahoma is amazing. He said, if you could do this in Oklahoma, just imagine what you could do in the nation. And so that statement stayed with me because he was saying that because we live in Oklahoma, uh, we lived in Oklahoma. Yes. Um, what you the things that we had to do in that state to be successful as an African American were horrendous. But because we lived and was born there, we didn't see it as um anything outside of what was normal. So I think that that statement stayed with me. And he always said, he every time he said, because like I remember calling him once and or emailing him, and he told me, he said, what you do is you turn your goals into gold. And I I emailed him and I said, Well, I'm gonna be your next keynote speaker. Yes. Well, remind you, just Obama had just spoken. That wasn't happening. Some little girl from Oklahoma, right? And um, so I think that I made so many bold moves with that, but that was a one statement that said, whatever I did in Oklahoma that was so amazing, I could take it on the national stage. Yes. And that was one of the things that that took me. And you know, and I've had a couple people. Uh, Bishop Carlton Pierce once told me, what some little girl from Oklahoma is going to do is going to be life-changing. Yes. And right before he passed, I made it back to Oklahoma and I sat with him for seven hours and I said, brother, listen to me. Listen to your best friend.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I said, what I'm doing in Dallas has been amazing. Now I have to sue the government for a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I want to get to that. So I want to get to that.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

And he just said, Your journey's not over. So, yeah, I've done a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

No, that's probably the boldest move that I've heard in a long time. As we all know, things are crazy in our government. And Colleen, again, owns the largest diagnostic lab, teaches people how to get make their own money, right? Get their own coins through government contracting. And she sued the US government for a billion dollars. Yes, you heard that right, a billion dollars. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Who so you know what? Um, I I have I have become very good at government contracting. So one of the biggest contracts that I won right before I left the state of Oklahoma is that I won uh a contract at that time. It was about uh $35 million. Uh it was with the Oklahoma Department, no, it was with the Department of Labor. I won every job corps in the nation to take care of the lives of every student coming into every job core center. We had 125 locations in all 50 states because my competitors would always say, you know, she's some little company in Oklahoma, but actually that particular contract put me on the national stage. So I have decided I learned government contracting. Uh being in the state of Oklahoma, we didn't have a lot of people that knew that, but I would get up and work from sunup to sundown and to read every humanly possible thing that I knew in government contract. So I became very good at government contracting. And right at the time that I won one of the largest contracts in the country for national, COVID hit.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

And so I I became really, really good at government contracting, and that's where my journey started.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Yeah, and you were killing it. And Colleen always tries to pull me along. And if if if you know anything about me, I've written the book, I've been on national stages internationally, and so much of it is thanks to this woman. I because she's always telling me, you gotta do this, you gotta do this. So it's trying to get me into government contracting, and I have not wanted to do it. So she keeps trying to she's like, you can be the only person selling toilet paper to the government. I'm like, I don't want to sell toilet paper to the government.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Well, you know what? I would tell everyone because like I have no fear in terms of teaching people, because when I started to teach people government contracting, I didn't want to do that journey. Uh and sometimes I still don't. But what I looked at was a lot of people on social media platforms, they might say, I won a hundred million dollars in contracts. Um, but the truth is you wrote $100 million in contracts for multiple people. Did you orchestrate the contracts? Did you work the contracts? Did you do the contracts? Did you win the contracts? Oh no, you didn't. So, you know, it was sort of like God kept telling me, I kept looking for somebody that could really teach. And then it was always so much that wasn't real with them. So then I just decided that I would teach. And then the first time I tried, uh, it was right after my husband passed. And my husband passed, and people would say on social media, oh my God, you look so sad. And I'm like, I am sad, but I'm still gonna teach you how to make a billion dollars. What does that have to do with anything? And what people don't understand is that the government spends $84 million an hour on the hour. They are a they are a consumer of all things and own nothing. So the government doesn't own the groceries, they don't make the food, they don't make anything, they buy, they consume everything. And so when I started showing up, it would be me in that room. I I saw no one else that looked like me. I saw no one else that needed a lift up. And so I learned how to sue the government. I learned how to do a lot of amazing things because I can sue the government in about two seconds and make you stop any contract in the world.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

And she says it with a smile, with no smile. With no smile.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

The government may not like this when they see your show. Maybe not. But it's true. It's true. Anyone can do what I did. The government has rules that they abide by. And our company is a service-disabled, veteran-owned, minority company, woman-owned, hub zone, and a lot of other things. So those designations still work, although our administration wants to tell us that this is about DEI, when we it is not. It is about like we operate in the DBE space. So the veteran space is amazing. So there's a lot of things that I think that we need to be the we need to be in that room. We need to be able to have those conversations because $84 million an hour every every hour on that hour. And you can sell anything, you can sell you, you can sell your speaking, you can sell your teaching. Like whatever you want to sell to the government, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

I'll probably come talk to you about it now. It take, you know, it takes me a little bit. I've been pulling. Yeah. Oh man, it's it's been one of the most amazing opportunities to be able to sit under you. But I have to ask you, at this stage in your life, in your career, are you balancing more? Is and is work by if work is work-life balance actually a real thing if you want to be successful? No. Okay. I knew you were saying, Why do you say that? Because it's such a big it's such a big deal. People are like, I gotta have a job where I can have balance and I can have all of these things, the other things that are important to me. It can't just be all work. And I know you like to have a good time, I know you get out, all those things, but also like if someone said it, how would you describe Colleen? I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Colleen's a hustler. Like you had a so you, you know, what of course, I I'll I'll answer this now. My favorite song is Rick Ross, every day I hustle. People used to say, That's you. Why didn't they say that? Because, like, you look at you, you ain't hustling every day. Like every day I got a different hustle game. Because, like, you know what? One of the things, and I taught you this a long time ago, I have never said that I am successful. I have never said that. You might read a thousand things and say how successful I am, and you look at somebody that has made a hundred million dollars at success, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yes, yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Um, I did get the first Rolls Royce in the country, too. Yes, I saw that. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, so the Rolls Royce was kind to me. But I I don't ever say that I'm successful.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Why?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Because you know what? The moment that I am successful is the moment that I stop hustling, the moment that I stop working, the moment that I stop trying to be some, be better than what I was the day before, the moment that you can't look up to me and say, you know, she's successful. So if I wake up one day and I'm saying, oh my God, I'm just successful, what else do I have to do? I ain't got nowhere to wear my clothes because I can stay at home. Can I go home? Absolutely. Yeah. So I I have never used that term for me. And a lot of people interesting. Right, a lot of people do. So life balance. You know, I'm from an era that. Like I I know I hire people and they want balances. I used to use this statement, like um some of my older doctor friends, my cardiologist, because I was in cardiology for a long time. Um, if if you fell and had a heart attack on one of my older doctors' floor, yeah, he's gonna jump on your check and he's gonna chest and he is going to save you immediately.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

But he had a son. That son had life balances. You have a heart attack in front of him in his office, he's gonna call 911 to come get you because he's going to his kids' baseball game. That's the difference. And so, but see, success really don't live there. I don't know that you can find anyone that is truly successful, you know, that can just stop. You know, uh many years ago, Steve Harvey was berated because I think he said something like, you know, it's it's 24 hours in a day and he's working, you know, 18 or something like that. And so many people came for him. Right. But the life of an entrepreneur is not the life for the weak of heart.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

So you gotta choose it, like you gotta really want it.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

You gotta choose it. And you know what, I speak a lot, well, not so much anymore, because like you have to know somebody that knows somebody. Um but one of the things that I that I always tell people, man, if you if you're in my line and you telling me that you want to go home at five or you want to have lunch with somebody every day, you and I do we're not equally yoked. I have no conversation for you because that is not the life of an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

And this woman don't believe in lunch, y'all. Let me just Oh, yeah. She does not go, she said, she she said when I came into her life, that's she she went to lunch a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

This woman works through lunch. Right. Guys, uh, I think entrepreneurs have things that are insane with us. Like Risha has some things that are insane. If you are an entrepreneur, you have some insanity to you. I used to think that I was normal. Guys, I wrote a book in like the first book I wrote was in 2007. I have like, I don't go to lunch with anyone. You can be the president. I'm not going to lunch with you. I will set my office up to where you have the most amazing five-star course in my office, but I'm not effective at lunch. I've never been effective. I think maybe since I probably probably in 30 years have maybe gone to lunch, maybe 20 times. Maybe. Um, but whereas Risha goes to lunch all the time. I just, I'm thinking about I'm I'm just trying to figure out the business. While you're thinking, like, are we getting coffee and dessert? I'm thinking, did I win? Because if I if I'm if I'm going out, I'm coming home with the business. It's just it, but I can't do that when you're thinking, are we getting dessert? And I'm thinking, did I get the contract signed? So it's easier for me just to say, listen, you want to play with me, just come to my office. We'll have lunch. Like it doesn't matter if I get the business, but if I go out, I'm getting the business.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

So okay, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

You heard it.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Yeah. No lunch. We will be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. So, as y'all can hear, she has built the empire, but the lessons learned have never been easy. Colleen, you once told me that the same hustle it took to make your first 5,000 is the same hustle needed to make your first 50,000 and the same for the first 50 million, but you keep crushing the BS and carrying the wisdom forward. So, question for you. Are you in love with the grind?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

You know, I think that I am. Um, you know, I'm in I'm in love with with the processes. Because, like, you know, I think that as an entrepreneur, someone once told me that they said, I don't, I don't give enough uh love or credence to the fact that I've been in business for 30 years, never had any issues, um, and most people don't make it that long.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And so, you know, I think that what else would I do?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Uh I've had so many companies. Uh, of course, over the years, like, you know, I I've got so many business tips. Like every year in December, I would start a new LLC, a new company. Every year. And and why would I do that? I did that because I never knew what I would start the next year. So I went to a season that I used all my initials. I used my son's initials, my husband's initials. I didn't have any more initials to go. I just started putting them together because I had so many companies. But the thing was, on that, I that company may not have existed today, but then all of a sudden, maybe I drop a real estate deal in that. Or I had all those real estates, and and you know, so you just never know what you needed it for. I don't really do that now because it's like the one company that I have, I think I have maybe three or four, that we good. Like I don't need to keep starting. No, no, I I do not need to do that. But do I teach that? Do I tell people this is what I did and this is why I did it? So I am in love with the fact of like being being able to create something from the ground up. Although I'm still from Oklahoma, yeah, I live in like a little area. I like to grow stuff from nothing. In my backyard, in my neighborhood, I still grow greens.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Yes, I love a garden.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

But it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

I love to see it come out the ground like, oh, I did that. And that's that is how business is.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Right, because you're growing something from nothing. And although I don't even like half the stuff that I grow, the concept is I'm growing something from nothing. But I'm able to take that growth and give it to someone else. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

So And you have done that, and I want to thank you in front of the world because I had a tangible person that I can look at, a black woman, and say, She's doing that. I can do it. Because you don't get to see that a lot. You don't get to bug, you don't get to stop by somebody's office and cry and say a lot of those days. Yes, and say, Colleen, this is happening. I gotta tell y'all, Colleen would shut the door. Now, what's going on? Why are you crying? What is happening right now? And I would tell her some story, and she always had this piece of advice for me that it was off the cuff, off the chain. I remember there was a guy that I need I needed to fire at the time, but we were doing a huge event. And and Colleen, first of all, y'all, she ain't got a lot patience. So she's sitting there looking at me like, hurry up with the story. And I'm telling her what happened, and she said, You don't cut your nose off, despite your face. You're gonna keep this guy until this event is over, then you're gonna let him go. Right. Right. And I've learned so much from you, and I I have so much appreciation for you because you did it. And there are so many people, so many people that look like us that can look up and say, I did it. And so for me, now I can reach back and pull up. And so I I truly appreciate that. So I want to know at this at this stage in your life, we all still carrying a BS around. What's the BS you're still working through?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

You know, although um, thank you for that. Um although uh I've been in business almost 30 years. You know what? Um success, success is never owned. It's always rented, right? Um so you only rent it for a time. And I think that no matter what industry you choose to go in, as a black woman, our our our faith is much harder. Um you know, a lot of times people hear stories that we don't get the income. I've made hundreds of millions of dollars, right? You don't, you like it's a rare occasion that you can go in and be able to sign on the company's name, saying that we have to be more.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Okay, like I don't live in that space anymore because when I walk through, I walk through. I am not, I am unapologetic for who I am because I tell people all the time if you're gonna tell my story, tell the real story. But for me to be um beholden, yeah, because I've done my life and I've done my life very well, you've done your life and you've done exceptional. But in some spaces, we still have to act like we just started.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

But see, I don't walk like that anymore. So you you may not like the walk that I do, but I'm not walking in wounded. And sometimes we as African American women, no matter what you've done and the level of success that you've had, we still walk wounded. We walk as if we had don't have the ability to stand up. But see, I'm I don't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

I have paid the cost, and I've paid the cost to be who I am.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

So I no longer walk in a wounded space. I understand that I used to do this thing when I first started my company, that we coming in, I would always try to figure out. I'm talking about medicine and I'm trying to figure out like women and black women go with money. Everybody in this world goes with money. And so you can I can even immediately set at a table and see who got the most money, right? Because and if a men are there, it's really easy. We throw men off. Women throw men off.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Because see, I can say some things that you going like, did she did did she just say that? Yeah, I did. So it is the man that talks the most at the table that got the most money, but it's the man that is quietest at the table that controls the money.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

I love it. I hope y'all pick that up. I hope y'all pick Say it again for the people in the back.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

So the man that talks the most has the money, but the man that is the quietest is controlling the money at the table. I love it. So I always look, I'm I'm always 90% the only woman at the table. So I'm looking for those two things. The man that talks the most, not interested. Where's the money man?

SPEAKER_03 32:06

I'm gonna talk to you. You know, and you're making me think of a story with you and Donnie. Donnie is Colleen's uh husband passed away not too long ago, and a bank was courting your business. And the the banker kept talking to Donnie only. And what did you do?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I could have done a lot of things in that part, but it's simple. A lot of times when we are at the table, um people forget that just because you're with a man doesn't mean that that man controls the money.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So if I get up, everybody at my table better get up and push back because I'm out. And she was out. Yes. So those are things that we've learned to be who we are on these on these journeys. Because, like, you know, um people want to discount us so fast, right? But you are controlling, and even now, um it's sort of like Oprah in my office. Like, I have a round conference table that sits uh 10. And if like you're not gonna come in and sit in my chair. Like, I ain't even got to tell you, like, if you sit in my chair, I ain't got nowhere to sit. Like, where am I gonna sit, right? So there's rules to us. I mean, we we just have rules, and I think that there's a lot of things that I do on a daily basis that make my life because, like in business, I know what I'm going to do, I know how I'm going to react. It's the same as you. And that's why I said most entrepreneurs have things that we get up and we live by. It we may not show it, like I used to couldn't be honest about the fact that I'm not gonna go to lunch with you. Or I'm not like, oh, you call my office and you say she's got a lunch day. Everybody in my office would go, who, who, who? She doesn't go to lunch.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Um I gotta call them like no, she goes to lunch with me.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yes, yes, you can say that, and they'll be like, or you know, so those are just things that we've learned to be who we are, right? But we unapologetically not at this point uh saying that we are sorry for who we've become.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

And I think a lot of us don't know that we don't have to uh have to be below any of our counterparts.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Sometimes they still want us to do that, and I think that those those are problems.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Yeah. They they are huge problems, but they are problems that I think people continuously experience, and now we're in a we're in the internet world.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

And we didn't build our businesses in the internet world where you can supposedly make $50,000 in 30 days.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

And so how do you balance, and I we only got a couple minutes here, but is there a balance between the old way of doing business, like get out and talk to people, and and how we do this online?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

You know, um again, I believe that some of my things that I've done that has worked, I have I have had over 200 or 300 sites in this country.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

And like with Job Corps, I had 125. I have the Library of Congress and a whole bunch of weekend warrior uh contracts that we support on blood. And you know, I think if you do a really good job, have you chose to do business and the success, I've merged, I've I've morphed, and I've learned to do things differently. But I have over 200 or 300 sites in the nation. I haven't walked into any of them. So you can do business the way that you're supposed to do business as long as you're doing good business. And you don't get to do, you don't get to be in business for 30 years without doing good business. Now, do I have to change and do I have to morph and do I have to like pivot? Absolutely. Every so many years, I mean early on, I was a mobile company, then I was a mobile echo company, then I was a staffing. So you you your business in order to for you to stick around and but to be to do generational wealth, you have to pivot. You 100% have to pivot that business every couple years. And you know what? I do the same thing now. I'm in a big pivot now. So um I think that those are the things that make us successful, those are the things that make you a lasting business. I think that sometimes it's really difficult for African and women, African American woman-owned companies to really go to those uh next levels because we funding issues and stuff like that. And you look at me, I'm one of the most successful women coming out of Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Right. But coming out of the US, like let's just go ahead and open that up.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

It's not just Oklahoma. But but the thing is that we have we still have those things that don't allow us to go to where my company is, maybe I should have been the third largest, you know. But a lot of times you're not fighting issues, you're fighting you, they're fighting us.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

The word there was pivot. And it's so difficult for us to pivot a lot of times. You know, it's it's scary. It feels like we're going off course. I'm in a major pivot. You're seeing me because I'm in a pivot right now. We're gonna talk a little bit more about this when we come back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. What is your guilty pleasure TV show or movie that people would never guess that you love? Color purple. I kind of want to get into that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Why? Uh, because it just showed the real side of women and living on your own path, not standing on your own.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

And going through it to get to it, yes. Exactly. What's your go-to stress reliever when life gets heavy?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

You know, uh, I've always learned uh I go to me. Um, I go to me because I have to identify what the issue is. Because like um, I have to do my own self-help because a lot of times we don't identify what the core of the problem is before, and if you can't identify your own issue or what that stressor is, it can't be relieved. So I I have to do that first. Okay. I have to identify what is causing me the initial stress, and once I can do that, I can walk through it.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Now, if your personal culture, which is the vibe you carry when you walk in the room and the impact you leave when you walk out, had a theme song, what would it be? Listen, I've already said it.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

I still go on the room.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Every day I'm hustling. Every day I'm hustling. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Uh, Rick Ross could just give me to be on his on his show because you know, people would always say to me, Why do you why do you still say that? Because that song has carried with me for almost maybe 15-20 years. Yes. And because like I I don't think that we ever get off of our hustle game. And the moment that you do, you're not, you're not thriving. So that's that's always my thing. That's very true.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Now you need to check out motivation by TI.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Okay, I'll look. I'll hear, but I haven't heard it yet. It hadn't resonated with me because I'm still doing it. I'm gonna send it to me, though. Send it, send it to me, send it to me.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

What's the last thing that made you laugh so hard you cried?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Man, every day you you would think that I know I sat here like, oh, okay. Man, I laugh so hard. Life, life is just a bowl of cherries root to me every day. Because like I get up, uh, I have a routine. I get up at 6.19 every morning. Why 619? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Okay, but that's the time I get up. Okay. The clock just goes up at six at 6.19. My coffee, I have an automatic, like automatic Starbucks in my house. I have it come on at 6 o'clock. I get up at 6.19. I have coffee. And then I read, I I probably from 7 o'clock, I like to have my peace. And then from like 7 to 9, I take the worst calls of my day. Every day.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

The worst calls.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

And then I take the last worst call on my way to my office, and then when I get to my office, I will finish that. Whatever that call is that I do not want to make. And then that that starts my day. So you know what? I've always heard that. Do the hardest stuff first. Yeah, because the rest of it, the rest of it, I never know, I always have ideas where I start. I have an idea of where I'm supposed to end. But I'm a taskmaster, whereas I can get everything done in my whole day in two hours. So for the last 20 plus years, from 5:30 to 7 at my office is when I get my entire day done.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Because everybody's gone. So I laugh often. You know, it it would seem as though, because of the death of my husband, that I wouldn't laugh as often, but God saw fit to give me give me happy.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

And that's what I want to ask you. How has grief impacted you?

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Um, you know what? That guy was my ride and die.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

I already know.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

I already know. That guy was that guy was probably my soulmate. Now, he now, true, true in fact, with Mr. Donnie, Donnie would always say, I'm not his soulmate because he probably wanted something different. I ain't got no issue with that. No issue with that. I would ask him every year, Am I your soulmate? Yet he was like, No, no.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

I love Donnie. Donnie, I'm telling y'all, you see my mentor, but Donnie is who helped me get business with Colleen. Donnie would be like, I got you, Risha.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Donnie fought for all of y'all. Donnie would fight so much, and he was like, You gotta talk to them. So, you know, so yeah. But uh, so so brief grief took his toll, but you know what, and I said in my house, but you know what saved me? Honestly, it was my son. Um, my son, I I listened to, I only have one child, and one day my son would call me. And it it his his change. He would say, I'm so sorry that I didn't call you. I'm so sorry that I didn't come by, I'm so sorry I didn't come to dinner, I'm so sorry I didn't do this, and then I had to stop. And I had to go, what why are you sorry all of a sudden? But I think what I saw in him was he was he was sorry that he couldn't be my husband, he couldn't be there. And I realized that I was impeding his life. And so it was my son that every time that he talked to me, Mama, I'm sorry I didn't come over. Mom, I'm sorry I didn't come to dinner. Because see, I'm I'm like regardless of what you see, I'm old school. On Sunday, I'm like your grandma. I'm cooking dinner every Sunday. You can just drop in.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Oh, and I missed that. Yeah. Colleen put cinnamon rolls on online, and I'm like, Colleen, I'm texting, I'm on my way over. She's like, come on.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah. So so from that standpoint, grief was grief was difficult, but it was my it was my son that said, like, you gotta pull up. Now he he will say, I didn't do it that way, but every time I heard him. And so what I did was I went to work. When my husband passed, man, I worked 24-7. That's how I was able to suit the government because I got smarter and smarter. So but but it was it was it was tough. But my son pulled me out because I didn't want to impact his life.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

And I was impacting his life. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Okay. Is there one daily habit that keeps you sane? Coffee.

unknown 43:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

I don't I don't let you approach me and I don't approach you before I had my coffee. And by the time I get to my office, listen, I've already had two cups of coffee. I don't even probably like coffee, but what it is, is if you don't if you see that I have not had my coffee and I have not set my purse down, and you approach me. Really? Really? That's how we do it this morning. So it is just a uh coffee at my office is just a uh a time. That's it. So that's a daily habit.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

I hate coffee with tea.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

I'm a tea drinker. Okay, I'm a tea drinker, but I cannot get with coffee. So even if you Don't drink coffee. What it is, it's not that I like coffee like that. It's the approach. Because, like, my staff, I got a lot of them. So they know that if I'm not drinking coffee, like she ain't ready to have a conversation yet. And so it allows me to come in, sit my things down, do me, decompress while I'm walking in. Because remember, I didn't get the worst call of my day coming in. Right. So when I walk in, so they watch how I put my purse down. It's just a lot of.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

What does your staff think about you?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

What's your vibe with them? So you know what? Um, I'm very lucky. Uh when I I moved from Oklahoma to Dallas, and I would think that my staff loves me because 26 people moved with me. Uh some of them I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah. Everybody, everybody in in Oklahoma. Okay. I I I had moved here to Dallas, and I decided that I had won so many contracts in Texas. I won FEMA, I won the state, I won COVID testing. I had a um a lab at the airport, go figure. So we were winning all these contracts, and then I wasn't quite here.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

But what ended up happening is I only have one child. And that guy loves Oklahoma. And so he didn't want to come. So when he decided to come and he didn't go home, I realized I could move. Right. Because I wasn't gonna leave him. So like y'all, he's not like 15 or 16. This guy's like 29. He's not a kid. So when he came, so I went back to Oklahoma and I said, you know what, I'm gonna move my company to Dallas because Dallas was was more uh favorable to me. We didn't have the issues that we have in Oklahoma. And so I I had a big meeting at my table, and somebody raised their hand and said, Can we go with you? And I went like, can you can can you go with me? I was like, Yeah. And then somebody else raised their hand and said, Can they go? And so I said, tell you what, I'll be here for 24 hours, and all those that want to go, I'll take care of you for six months, I'll move you to Dallas. And the deal is this if you don't like it, you can always come back home, right? And so just about all my staff moved with me.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Oh wow, I didn't know that. That's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah, they all moved with me and stayed, and a lot of them have gone back to Oklahoma because some of them, the women, they were married, they husband let them go and got me a footing here in Dallas, and I'm forever grateful for them. Um and I took care of them. So, and and my current staff, you know what? Um, I think my I I have a really good staff.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

That's also that's really important to any success. So, what's one book, podcast, or show that changed how you see the world? Or is there one?

SPEAKER_00 46:41

You know, um she leaves me speechless because I would say that, you know, coming from where we came from, Breester was the first person that ever asked me to be a uh uh to mentor her. And we did, I never saw anyone that looked like me, um, that made money. And then when I wrote the book, I had to realize that it was my mom because my mother sold Mary Kay, uh, Glover, everything out of the back of her trunk, Avon. She was the first entrepreneur that I saw. So I we didn't come from an environment of mentorship.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

And I didn't even know what that was until Risha came up and said, Can you do that? And she's right. I had a group of about 10 people that no matter when they came to my office, my door was always open for them because I believed in them and we had like synergies. So, you know, I've I've always tried to like, I don't know that I have one book or one podcast. I I think I've had nuggets in my life of people that dropped into me because I'm still old school in that way that I can't mentor the world. Um, and I try to do a little bit on social media, but I don't know that I have that. I think that I have done better in giving that to other people uh versus me being a recipient of that.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

And here's the thing, I didn't know she had those others, she kept that a secret. So I didn't know about the other ones. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If you can leave your audience with one word that sums up how you live, what's that word?

SPEAKER_00 48:19

So, you know, sometimes people always ask a really they used to ask this question, and I think it's such a significant thing. Uh, if you could tell your 16-year-old self something, what would you tell them? What would you tell yourself? You know what? At the end of the day, we go through life struggles, we have ups and downs. Um, and especially when you get into this entrepreneurial space, you know what I would tell what I would tell myself, and every time that you pivot, every time you go through a growth spurge, I would tell myself the same thing. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Y'all heard it?

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Yeah, it is going to be okay. Colleen Payne neighbors didn't just build a business, you built a whole movement. She showed us that you can start from scratch, scale it to the top, and still reach back to pull others up. That's the kind of leadership that shifts culture. Her story reminds us that success isn't about titles or trophies, it's about how you show up, the impact you leave and the doors you open for somebody else. That's what being better than your BS is all about. So take notes, take action, and keep showing up with that same energy. And until next time, I want y'all to keep it real, keep it bold, and keep being better than your BS.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

What's the truth in your soul? What's the light to suppress? Till the leg is back, onion of success. Gotta shut that oath in no time to regress. From the boardroom, people to the block finesse. Rich your breaking things working thought, no less.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio toname with you. But if we go break through the stress, no expenses don't damage this progress of the cultural humanity lifestyle.