Stop Pushing Through Pain: Shayna Hammond, Host of The Grounded CEO

Shayna Hammond, founder of Lead for Liberation and Indigo Unbound, talks about moving through fear, reinvention, and the discipline of rest. From gymnastics in Lansing to becoming a school principal at 25 to launching a national coaching movement, Shayna shares the lessons that carried from sport into business: the high-beam night her coach made her "stick it 10 times," why closing a business sets off a real grieving process you have to honor, and why she now gives herself permission to rest instead of always chasing the next play. The throughline is Indigo Unbound's core idea — "Be Free" — a space where people release the fear and limiting beliefs holding them back from their next level.

Shayna Hammond is the host of the upcoming Zerlo Network show The Grounded CEO, where she goes by Shayna Renee.

Chapters:
0:00 Cold open and intro: meet Shayna Hammond
1:14 The pregame: gymnastics in Lansing and an early athlete mindset
3:58 Sprint relay triathlon and becoming a principal at 25
12:44 Founding Lead for Liberation and Indigo Unbound; the high-beam story
17:27 Getting real: grieving and looking toward closing Lead for Liberation
28:01 Rest and self-compassion
33:57 The BS she's working through: spirituality and ancestral ritual
37:47 Overtime: quick hits, joy, and "do it scared"

Be Better Than Your BS is an original talk show from Zerlo Network, hosted by Risha Grant. Streaming on Roku and Amazon Fire — search: Zerlo Network.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up y'all? This is Be Better Than Your BS with Reach the Grant the People's Chance. No fluff, no filters, just real women with real receipts. Talking leadership, life, pressure, purpose, and what it really costs to show up for. Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or building something of your own. If you've ever felt too much for some rooms and not enough for others, pull up a chair. These conversations are free. This is Zerlo Network, powered by people who make it possible. What's up, everybody? It's your girl Risha Grant. Today on Be Better Than Your BS, we're sitting down with Shayna Hammond, a powerhouse leader, serial entrepreneur, and the CEO and founder of League for Liberation and Indigo Unbound. She's built businesses that empower others, written a best-selling book, and created spaces for black women to lead with authenticity and joy. But before all that, Shayna was an athlete, a competitor who found life lessons on the court and in the race. From basketball to business, from leading the school at just 25 to launching a national coaching movement. Shayna's story is one of resilience, reinvention, and refusing to sit on the sidelines. Let's jump into the pregame so we can see how it all began. Welcome, Shayna. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. Yes, and I'm so glad to have you here because I get to really talk about my first love, which is sports. So tell me a little bit about your background, but also this the sports part of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yes, yes. I'm so excited to talk about sports and business in the same space. I too love them both. So I started out actually when I was four years old as an elite gymnast in Michigan. Wow. Okay. Yes, in Language, Michigan, where like gymnastics is everything. Um and uh was you know moved up pretty fast, was in gymnastics from maybe four to about maybe 10 years old. And I actually lived with my coach for a time. Oh, you were serious, serious. Yes, that's that's next level when you got to move in with the coaches. Exactly. Because my parents literally couldn't get me to practice um because you know, we were up to five and six hour practices every single day except for Sunday. Oh my god, which was just too rigorous, yeah, for them to be able to get me there. And so I learned hard work and dedication at a very, very young age.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

So I've got to know, like, when you play sports at that age, out acting anything, it really shapes your worldview. How did that fit into everything you've done, even from going to uh university, James Madison University, and studying kinesiology? Like, how does that all, how does that all fit into who Shana is today?

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah, yeah, you know, because I started so young, it's all I knew. All I knew was, you know, you get up early when you have a goal. And at the time I did want to go to the Olympics, I did want to compete at the highest level. I looked up to gymnasts who were older than me. Um, and I knew that that required a lot of dedication and focus. And so at a very young age, I just kind of always had that mindset of if you want something, you have to go after it. Yes. Um, and so once I became a teacher and really got into leadership pretty young because I was someone who already took initiative. I was someone who people could look to for support and for leadership. That's just kind of how I've always been. Um, you know, after gymnastics, I played basketball, I played softball, I was a softball captain, I was captain of my cheerleading squad at one point. So, you know, being on a team and especially leading teams was something I had been doing for a very long time. Okay. Um, and something that just kind of felt like home to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I gotta ask this because I saw that you were a relay sprint sprint relay triathlete. What is that? Because I just did the four by one hundred, four by two hundred and called it a day.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

I didn't know what it was either until a really good girlfriend um told me about it and encouraged me to sign up. So I had just had my second child. I have two children. Oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

You did this later in life?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Okay, okay. Respect. Respect. Okay, go ahead. I did. I did. I had my children back to back. They're only 18 months apart. Okay. And I needed something to get me just kind of back, you know. I hadn't been working out like I normally do. I do genuinely just love sports. I love being active. And one of my girlfriends had done one before. And like you, I was like, what is a sprint triathlon? First of all, what's a triathlon? Let's start there. And then what is a sprint triathlon? And she explained to me that basically it's a triathlon where you could do it as a team, where someone could do the swim, another person could do the bike, and then another person could do the run. Okay. And I was like, Bet, because I am not a swimmer, not yet. Right. That is one sport I have not conquered, not yet. Um, and so I said, you know, I really would love to get on a bike though. I haven't ridden a bike since I was like nine. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna cycle and I need to run. Like, I do need to do some cardio, and cardio is not my favorite. So, but there's nothing like a race, like a competition to motivate me. So I said, you know what, sign me up. So my girlfriend did the run, and I did the bike, uh, or she did the swim, uh, and I did the bike and the run. So that's what a speech I did. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

See, I thought you you say that again, say that in part again.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

And we ended up doing that together. We did that four times. You did that for four years.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Oh no. See, I thought that I thought that was I thought it was earlier in the game. I so you just your your level, my level of respect for you just like really went here. So, what lessons did you learn as a young athlete that showed up later? Because you became a principal at just 25 years of age. I mean, did the kids even respect you at 25? Because you look, you you still look so young today. Then they're probably like, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Oh, they did. Oh, they did. They they straight up thought I was one of the students at first. It's hilarious. Whenever I wore like the school uniform, yes, a parent came up to me and said, I'm looking for Ms. Hammond. Um, can you tell me what she is? It's like I'm I'm her. Um, no, but you know, sports really treats teaches you. I talk about this a lot, you know, I I'm very grateful that at a very young age I had really good body awareness um and body confidence. And so I'd always, you know, I learned gymnastics teaches you to be aware of kind of where you are in time and space. And I didn't realize until looking back later how that really gave me the confidence to step into a situation like being a principal for the first time at 25. I just applied the same kind of principles I had learned really early on of okay, I do need to focus. I need to learn a lot about people, about leadership, about systems. Um, and so I read a ton of books when I wasn't in front of my staff. Um, I called people, I had about four, you know, four or five lifelines, people who had been in leadership for a while. And I would say, hey, you know, here's the scenario. Um, what would you do? I had a coach at the time. That was one of the very first things is I hired a leadership coach. Um, and then, you know, you just have to do it, you know, just like Nike. I mean, it's one of those things you learn by doing, and I just use my inner confidence that you know sports had given me. Um just learning a long way.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

And yes, definitely. I think a lot of athletes have the same kind of mindset, right? My my sport was basketball. I played, played since I was a kid, but unlike you, I played because my cousins did not allow, they will make me play, but then they wouldn't allow me to touch the ball. So it was one of those things where they needed an extra person, and they were, and I'm sitting there and they're and they had to like keep an eye on me. So it's like, you come get on the court, and then don't touch the ball accidentally came my way. They were like, hurry, hurry, get the ball back. You know, you can't touch the ball. So I was like, I'm gonna teach myself basketball. But it started something in me that I didn't realize until much later because when you really love sports and you're really even just having fun with it, not even thinking, I can actually go to college, I can actually do all these things. You said focus. It is the thing to make you go go in there and show up in that gym every day, and you can't do the thing, you know, you're shooting the ball, it never goes in the hoop. You know, you maybe you're doing a flip, you can't land on your feet. Um sports is such a good trainer for life. Because you keep doing it, you keep trying it, you you keep going. Um some people don't, some people like this is not for me, which is fine, but I think I think it instills in you who you're who you're how you're going to run your life as as life moves on. Was there a coach, a teammate, or a sports moment that really shaped your leadership style?

SPEAKER_03 9:08

You know, it's interesting. I'm so glad you shared more about that because it also brought me back to my basketball days. So, you know, I started basketball later in life for most kids. So I quit gymnastics, you know, when I was 10. I didn't really pick up a basketball until I was maybe 12 or 13. Okay. And um, so I but I was an athlete, you know, I was strong, I was a quick learner, but I didn't have, you know, the skills and that a lot of other girls my age had. And I'll never forget, you know, having to play catch up. Um and, you know, leaning on my athleticism as much as I could, but for the first time, I wasn't the standout star, you know, on my team. I had to really work hard to get playing time. And I'll never forget, you know, we were on a an award-winning team, my junior and senior year, our senior year, we were undefeated, 33-0.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Um, and we had five, oh, we had an amazingly stacked team. Two of our players went to the WNBA. Oh, amazing. And um, but I myself rode the bench for much of that season. And it was a very humbling experience, right? And that's what team sports teaches you is that everybody has a role to play, you know, and you have to be ready to step up when it's time to step up and step back, you know, when it's time to step back.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

And even though I didn't get much playing time, I was usually the first one at practice, the last one to leave. I was the first one finishing those suicides. Like I never stopped trying though, you know. I never, never gave up. But it was a very, it was humbling, and I think I need I needed that.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

And each level is humbling. Each each level, you're the star, you go to college, or even from going from middle school to high school to college, like you you kind of start on the bitch, and it's like, and you got to get out of your own head, like, okay, you ain't all that. You might have been, you might have been last year, but you're there, but not over here. But how does that how does that translate to uh to leadership, to entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yeah, I think for leadership, um, something that I I've always gotten feedback around is that I have had a healthy balance between confidence and humility. Um, I'm a very self-assured person. And when I say self-assured, I mean that my confidence more so comes from my anchoring, my belief in God, my belief in myself, my belief in how I start my days, and not as much based upon external motion. And I really had to go through those tougher times to really understand the importance of really having that inner confidence and that inner drive, um, and not so much rely on the wins or rely on the praise to really feel like I belong in any one space. And so, my you know, leadership style is very much about authenticity and about uh raising your consciousness and how you treat the people around you. It's really an inner um uh practice first before it even shows up.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I love that. I love that. Thank you. We will be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. This is where Shayna made her biggest moves. So sports teaches us to leave it all on the court. Founding lead for liberation, and then indigo unbound were huge plays. Share with us a time when you had to give everything you had, win or lose.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Oof, you're taking me back to gymnastics days now. Um, I was trying to learn a new skill on the high beam. High beam was my weakest event. Um, it was the event that really stirred up the most fear in me. And I had to do a series, um, two backhand springs in a row on the high beam. And I was so nervous. I thought I was getting away with it. I would always kind of go to the restroom and it was my turn. You know, I would make excuses not to go. And I thought, no, I thought I was winning. Like sometimes I would switch rotations and didn't have to do it. And then one day uh we get through rotations, and I, you know, I'm like, who I didn't have to do it today. I think I'm good. Yeah. And my head coach says, Um, all right, everybody, it's nine o'clock. Everybody's, you know, it's time to go. He said, Everyone can leave except Shayna, you're with me. And then I look over into the stands, my parents are gone. He said, I sent your parents home. You're staying here with me, and you cannot leave until you stick 10 series on that high beam. Oh no. It's like, no, the tears started welling up. He's like, Wipe your face, get up there, you're gonna move through the sphere. And we stayed there. There was no one in the gym, just my coach and myself. And he stayed there for an additional at least two to three hours until I stuck it 10 times. But I will never forget that first time that I did it. I because I really believed, I did not believe I could do it. Yeah, I was like, there's just there's just no way, I'm not ready. And I'll never forget the feeling. He said, You can do this. I wouldn't stay here if you couldn't. And I stuck it. And I will net that feeling of oh my goodness, I I can do this. And of course, every single time I did it, it got easier and easier. And it's just like the most beautiful metaphor of life, right? Like you just have to do things scared, and then once you do it, it becomes easier and easier and easier.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Talk about coaches for a second. I mean, we know there are bad coaches and there are good coaches, and what I've always learned from my sports days and even coaching is that you have to understand your players. You have to understand the kid that can stay for three hours until they stick a move. You have to understand which kids you can yell at, which ones you need to put an arm around and go and talk to in private. Coaching is super important. I've seen bad teams, you know, horrible teams become the best teams because they have a good coach. So we got to give it up for the coaches out there that are really doing it from the from a space of I want to see this person get better. How does that um how does that pivot act as a strategy when when business is not working?

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Oh my goodness, it's it's what I go back to. You know, um, just like you said, you know, you have to know your players in business. You have to know your you have to know your clients. Yes you have to know your team. And your team has to match the client base that you're trying to reach. And so anytime we have run into a challenge and we run into many of them, yes, and we notice maybe sales are down and we're we're not sure which way to go. Um, I've had to step back and say, okay, uh, what are we listening well enough? What are they saying that they actually need right now? And how might we need to pivot our services to meet where they are? And then once we pivot the services, I have to look at my team. Is my team configured in such a way that we can deliver these services and still deliver it in a high quality way?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Um, and sometimes the answer is no. And then that means we have to pivot.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

And so I just literally pivoted my team, I bit pivoted my business model. Um, and I'm getting better and better as I, you know, do it more and more. The first time was the scariest. I called them the dark days because I don't I didn't know whether we were gonna survive on the other end. And of course we did, we soared, but you know, and now here I am at another pivot point, and I feel more confident because we've had to do this before. And so I'm like, all right, I know what to do. We need to shift the business model, need to shift the team configuration, shift how we serve, you know, our services, and then we're gonna rise again.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yes, yes. So let's let's get really real formatted. You and I have been in conversation this year, has um I can't, I can I can't curse on camera, so I can't really I cannot articulate this year. Um but we have been kind of just holding each other up and checking in with each other and and you know, checking in. That's not a lot we can say right now because it's been so crazy. So I know that as you were looking toward closing Lead for Liberation, um part of my pivot is is what I'm doing today. Um, and we have to be open to those things. So I want to ask this question what parallels do you see between closing something that you have birthed, lead for liberation, if if you decide to go that route, um and an athlete losing a tough game or having that career-ending injury?

SPEAKER_03 18:22

It's tough because just like in sports, your your sport becomes a big part of your identity, you know, and your business is like your baby, it becomes a part of your identity. And so there's a grieving process that has to happen and that you have to kind of honor. And it was so helpful to have you, you know, as part of that process. I mean, there were times when I was angry, there were times when um, you know, I was incredibly sad. Um, and it comes and goes in waves. And but I always kind of you know stepped forward. I knew I had to just keep moving forward, and I did have to be okay with and consider letting it completely go all the way. And that's what brought up the the strongest feelings, you know, of anger and sadness. It's like, but I built this and now I, you know, uh, because of external forces, now have to make a shift. Yes. And it was really, really, really hard to do. Where I am today, though, I'm so thankful. I'm not as, you know, time has healed and just also just some research, talking to different folks like you, other entrepreneurs who are pivoting. And I am starting to see, okay, there is a way for us to move forward and to shift our services from B2B to B2C. We're looking into a possible membership um opportunity, uh, but most importantly, a strategic partnership opportunity. Yes. And um, but again, it's that piece because it's so tied to your identity. Um you have to be careful. And that's why I go back to that inner piece. You know, I had to kind of remind myself and remind myself over and over again that you know who's really in charge, you know, and I have a huge faith base. Right. Um, and at the end of the day, if it's if I still have it, that means it's still my assignment. And so I need to, you know, find a different way that's gonna work for both our team and it's gonna work for our audience.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

You know, it was crazy. One day we were on the phone and you were talking about closing, closing uh Lead for Liberation. And I remember getting off the phone thinking, gosh, that can't even be an option for me because there's there's nothing else. What am I gonna do? And I was I was talking to my partner about it, and then it hit me like out of nowhere a couple of weeks later, like, it's already done. It's already done because you you are not you're not doing the thing in the way that you built the thing. That that is gone. You know, we've experienced a wave in in the world of DEI that I've been in for 27 years. We we're experiencing it in a way that I just never, you know, you plan for the the the years that are gonna be not that great, you know, maybe you know, income's gonna be lower. You do not plan for total annihilation of a business. And so when you started talking about going through that grieving process, and then I started talking to my partner about that, and she said to me, You're grieving. And it just and it's as crazy as that might sound like, okay, money's not coming in, you're not on stage, you're a person that talks 60 to 70 times a year, you've talked, you've spoken twice, like it already died, but but I I I couldn't see it because the athlete in me says, You gotta keep going, you gotta play through the pain. When do we stop playing through the pain and realize it's time, it's time to it's time for a different play.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Oh my goodness, yes. And that's where for me, that's when faith comes in, steps in. And you know, and I just Had to be ready. And that's what you were hearing me in my call to you about, you know, I'm I'm ready to let it go. Um, and just constantly stepping in and asking spirit, you know, what will you have me do? At the end of the day, I understand, you know, what it was is over. Um, regardless of how it happened, that chapter is over and I am here and ready and I surrender to whatever's next. And if that means letting it go, that means letting it go, you know. And I'm really grateful that, you know, I have other businesses, you know, and I am pivoting to those other businesses. So, you know, indigo unbound is now my main business, which I've been waiting for this moment for a long time, where that is the business that I'm spending most of my time in. Um, and so and and once we kind of identify that grief, that's when we're able to see, like, oh, wait a minute, there's there's an opportunity here. There's something that's trying to emerge that probably would not have emerged if if that hadn't come to an end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah. And I wish I had that much grace. I went kicking and screaming. I was not just like, you know what, whatever is next. I was like, hell no. I did this. I built this issue for a minute. Yes. I'm like, I'm I'm doing this because I don't know. I didn't know how to allow something to go because that's one thing that I honestly think in sports that we have to figure out is sometimes you don't need to play through the pain. I don't think that's the best thing for us to learn. I think sometimes you need to go sit down and and deal with the pain. And then one of the things about me is my word for the year was unshakable faith. My partner kept saying, stop saying that God don't you know, not unshakable faith, because you're gonna face all the things so that you can be tested in unshakable faith.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

It's so true. You get the opposite, so you can demonstrate it. I know, I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

It it's yes, so you got to be really, really careful what you're praying for, what you're meditating on, what you're putting into the universe because it has a way of of of backing that thing up on you. I mean, it really does.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

And you know, we both share that practice where my word last year was surrender of all words, and so I was already kind of in this mode of like, well, I guess I gotta surrender that too. Yes, you know, and I've so many things were placed in my path to actually surrender. Yes. Um, and it was a process, it was certainly not overnight at all. You know, I've been on a spiritual journey for for decades now, I mean, for a really long time. And I didn't realize how much from sports, while I'm so grateful for what sports have brought me, but to your point, there are some things about being an athlete um that I've had to heal. And part of that is pushing through pain. Right. And some of that is also, you know, working too hard or working too much, you know, and really understanding that, oh, wait a minute, there is a law of least effort. What is that? You know, like my coach would have been like, What is that?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Okay, before you tell us, before you tell us, we're gonna have to cut and we're gonna come right back so you can tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. Now, looking back, looking back, the biggest lesson that sports taught you that you still rely on.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

The biggest lesson that sports taught me that I still rely on. Um, I mean, I think it's really just it comes back to that when you are hurt or when the play doesn't work, um, you really don't have time to kind of wallow in it. You have to give it, you know. Um, and there are so many challenges right now, you know, external, internal, so many challenges. And while I have learned to, you know, allow myself time to feel and to move through emotions, you have to act. Yes, you know, um, I'm so glad I'm not someone who will kind of stay still too long. Um, I know that at some point I just have to get up and do it and do it scared and do it imperfectly, and just you know, rely on the fact that I'm gonna receive some feedback and to implement that feedback and then try again. And sports really teaches you that over and over and over. There's always a new skill, there's always a team that you, you know, didn't anticipate was as good as they are, you know, and you gotta dig deep.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

You know, you made me think of something in sports, things move really fast. You have a 30-second timeout or a 60-second timeout to draw up a play, and you gotta go do the play win or lose. That part is making me think about business. Should we be taking all the time that we're taking, or should we draw the play up and get out there and run the play and win or lose because at least you know next time? Because I know I've spent way too much time running the play, drawing the play up. I spent way too much time drawing the play up. Sometimes you just got to get in the game. That part, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

And and it's the scariest, it's it's the scarier route, but it it really truly is the route to go, you know, is to act and just trust that you have enough information at the time and just move. And things more so have worked out when I've done that, as opposed to when I have ruminated, done more research, gotten another certification. It's like, you know what, enough with the certifications, enough with the sessions, just do it. Just do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

So I want to get into this strong black woman schema because you talk about that in your book. So first of all, what is it? I'm gonna let you answer that. What is it? I'll I'll start there. What's a strong black woman?

SPEAKER_03 28:18

The strong black woman schema is a construct that was actually born out of white supremacy. So it's this belief system that black women are expected to be both the hardest working person in any one group as well as the most self-sacrificing person. So taking it all the way back, you know, to when we were enslaved, we were expected to, you know, work in the fields at you know insane hours as well as take care of the plantation homes family and to put all of our emotions, all of our needs to the wayside. That has manifested century over century, generation over generation, still today, as black women oftentimes being the strong friends, oftentimes being the high achievers, the ones who we turn to when there's a problem, there's a challenge. We we ask black women to step forward, and we oftentimes do. And we do that at the cost of our health. We do that at the cost of our emotions and what we actually really need. And what it's done is, but on the flip side, it's made us, you know, it invites us to be very hardworking, to be self-sacrificing, to silence when we're really, you know, in pain or tired or exhausted, we push through. And so when you take that schema on top of the fact that I'm an athlete, those pieces around the strong black women schema were so hard for me to break through. And I truly believe we're here to teach what we're here to learn. And so created, you know, a program and in a space where I can invite other black women just like me, who were working to shed some of that conditioning that we cannot, that tells us that we can't rest, um, that we can't put ourselves first and really, you know, tend to our self-care and really treat ourselves with more kindness and humanize ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

It it makes me think of my grandmother who used to say to me all the time, you need to know more, you need to dress better, you need to be just basically you need to be more. And you carry that even if you don't think about it. And then there's an old gospel song called 99 and a half won't do. And my grandmother, we literally put that on her tomb because she would say that to me all the time. You know, 99 and a half won't do. You've got to give 100 all the time. Now, while it helped shape me, and then I think about that all the time, like uh, you're you're not giving enough, you're not giving 100%. Sometimes you need to go sit down. You need to go sit down, you need to rest, you need to, it's it's another thing. I know um I keep bringing my partner up, but one of the things I've learned from her is rest. Because she rests. I don't really, I I don't really rest. It's like let's take a nap. I'm like, I can't take a nap. I don't even know how to take a nap. I just lay there. Um because I feel like, especially in this time in my life where there's so much transition and things are um things are not going in the way that I would like them to be going. Rest seems like the last thing on earth that I need to do. But when we went on vacation, I rested, I mean, I was in the bed by nine. I was I was uh I was taking naps all day. Like she wasn't even taking naps. I'm just I realized I was exhausted, and so I'm resolved to really work hard in making sure that I'm rest because making sure that I rest because one thing I realize is it makes the mind stronger to be able to have be able to have that space. So how do we balance, right? Endurance and rest. Two of the things that athletes have to balance. How does that show up in in your current leadership philosophy?

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Yeah, the other thing in addition to rest is self-compassion. So I've also learned to pause and celebrate a little bit more. Yes. You know, we talked about how as athletes, you know, we're we're fast movers, we're fast processors, we're like, all right, what's the next play? You know, and that translates into business. Okay, what's the next play? Oh, that was great. We just killed it with that client. Okay, where's the next client? And it's like, well, where's the pause? You know, where are we where are we celebrating? So we've tried to do a better job. And I know personally I've tried to do a better job of pausing uh and celebrating and acknowledging the milestones that we have been able to celebrate. Yeah, um, because I, you know, I want to be at this for a while. And in order to sustain myself, you know, we I I have to pause and I have to give myself permission for my 100% also to look a little different on different days. Yeah. Um it's just it can't look the same way every single day. I'm a human being, you know, um, and just have to give myself that grace.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I um in 2016 was a was a tough year, and I remember going back reading all of my journals, and I realized that I had only written down the bad things that happened in business, and it depressed me, right? Because I'm just like, why am I still doing this? Like, obviously, this is not working. And I had not stopped to smell the roses, I had not stopped to toast. And I so now when I journal, I put in the good stuff along with the bad stuff. Because if I ever have to go read that again, I need to know something was working. So, and even if I have to toast by myself, even if I have to drink, drink by myself and say, Okay, Risha, you did that. It's okay to pat yourself on the back because if you don't do it, you cannot keep moving forward. There are always so many things that that hold us back, so much BS. So, what's the BS that you are actively still working through in your personal culture? And and the way that I describe personal culture is the vibe that you are when you come in the room and the impact that you that you leave behind you. Yes. So, what what BS are you still trying to work through?

SPEAKER_03 34:14

The BS I'm working through is, and you know this, I'm working on being more visible. You know, I'm so excited to be here on this show, and I'm working through what's behind that, what's behind that challenge? And it's kind of what we talked about a couple beats earlier, which is you just have to do it. You know, I keep thinking, well, you know, there's so much I don't necessarily know about my type of business and what strategy for social media might be the best one. And it's like, you know what, you just need to get out there and you need to try it, and you just need to show up more. And so I'm working on cutting through that BS, saying yes to invitations, and not just saying yes to invitations, but going out there and pitching opportunities to be more visible. You know, that's the BS I'm working through. It's like, okay, that's great. You said yes, Shayna, but uh you need to ramp this up. What have you gone after? What have you initiated? Love it. And you know, said, hey, I'm gonna go ahead and put myself out there and go, you know, be a guest here or start this there. Um, but I'm still working through it. I'm still in it. Well, I'm gonna check in on you.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Keep checking for you. I'm gonna check in on you. So okay, we have two minutes. I want you to tell us a little bit about your spirituality and your ancestral ritual. So I know that that's something that's really important to you, and I wanna get that out. So now you have less than two minutes, but go ahead and kill it.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Well, no, so I've mentioned it a couple times, you know, being a hard-charging athlete really early on um presented itself an opportunity to really grow spiritually. Because while it's great to be a go-go-go person and a high-achiev person, I want to also be a happy person and a joyful person and not feel so burned out all the time and anxiety-ridden. And it was really truly me deciding to heal and me deciding to really develop a closer relationship with God. So I start every single day um greeting my ancestors, um, lighting a candle. The candle behind me is a candle for my ancestors and those flowers for them as well. Um, and I'd start each day before I, you know, I'm a parent, before I'm a business leader, before I'm doing anything like that. I'm Shayna, I'm a child of God, and I am co-creating the intention for every single day. Um, and in that intention, it's not just about what I'm gonna get done. More importantly, it's how do I want to experience this day. Yeah. So I woke up this morning knowing we were gonna get together. I said, you know what, I want to have fun, I want to laugh, I wanna be authentic, I want to be a gift, you know, to whoever's there. And it's practices like that that soften me, you know, and and soften whatever it is that I'm doing that day. And I don't put so much pressure on myself to be perfect or be this. It's like, nah, today I'm gonna be me. I'm gonna be authentic, I'm gonna share. Yes, I'm gonna get these things done. Um, but I'm gonna pay more attention to how I want to feel while I'm doing it. And that's what the my growth and spirituality has helped me do.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

That was amazing. We will be right back. Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few. You know the real fun starts in overtime. These are quick hits, no filter. Let's go. Who is your all-time favorite basketball player and why?

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Uh, I mean, it's gotta be Michael Jordan, right? Like he's the greatest. I'm not accepting any comparisons. He's the greatest. Is Michael Jordan? I mean, he Okay, I know these are quick hits, but LeBron. Michael LeBron. No, to me, there's still no comparison. I have this argument with a couple of my cousins all the time. Um, no one will he has more rings. I mean, he what he did during his time, um, he transcended basketball. Yes. You know, he really did. And I can't necessarily say LeBron has transcended basketball. I respect what LeBron is doing in education, though, as an information. He's killing it.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yes, he's killing it.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Killing it, right? Like you respect that. Um, but when we're talking just sheer, you know, basketball player, yeah. Um, I have to go with MJ.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

I agree with you. I'm there. Okay, biggest lesson you learned. I have on the basketball court, but I'm gonna say you've done all the sports, so whatever, whichever one of them, that you still use in business. Biggest lesson you still use in business.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Biggest lesson I still use in business. I would still say I have to go back to doing things scared. You can't wait for something to not be um scary, or you can't wait for something to not be as challenging. You just have to do the thing scared.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Okay. If indigo unbound were a basketball team, what would the team motto be?

SPEAKER_03 39:29

Ooh, the team motto. What would the team motto be? It would be be free. Our values actually spell be free, and indigo unbound is all about being a space where people can set themselves free, free from any kind of fear or limiting belief that's holding them back from their divine next level.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I love it. When the game is on the line, are you the one who takes the last shot or are you making the assist?

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Ah, depends. Can we say depends? No, but if my go-to, my instinct truly is to take the shot, you know, is to take the shot. There's this um uh strategy that I do when I'm doing something and doing it scared. I put my fingers like this, and it takes me back to a memory when I was playing softball, actually. It was the championship game. We're tied, it's bottom of the ninth inning. I'm on third base, and the ball goes past the catcher. And the third base coach doesn't say anything, but in my mind, I'm like, I can make it. Yeah, and I just can go. I was out there, right? And we won. We won the game. And I, you know, I go back to that memory. Um, that you know what, Shayna, that's your first instinct. Your first instinct is to bet on you. Um, and there are times though, you know, like y'all times forget, and there are times I'll pass the ball where I'll say no, maybe not yet. And it's like, nah, that's not naturally who you are. Naturally, you're like, yeah, I can do that. I got that. Yeah. And um I remind myself, I do this to remind myself when I forget who I am.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

You you took you took me back seriously because it is, I'm gonna take the shot too. Same thing, game is tied, there's no time on the clock, I gotta make the free throws. And so, but again, I also think there's a lot of pressure that sometimes you need to you need to assist. You I suck. I suck at assist. Yeah, sometimes you just need to throw that ball behind you and let somebody else take the shot. Now, would your teammates have called you more of a strategist or an energizer?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

That's a good question. Would they have called me more of a strategist or an energizer? Probably an energizer first. I think I would like to think of myself more so as a strategist. Um, but my I've always gotten kind of the feedback. I was the one who like would come up with the chants we would do before the game, you know. Like I'm the one who's like the hypest on the team, you know, we're freestyling in the you know, car before the game. You know, I'm hype, like I'm always hyped. So I think I would say the energizer. Like I'm the one who's like, yeah, we're down, but we got it, you know. Um we got it with the right strategy, but I'm always gonna come with the energy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Okay. What's something that we say or do in sports that you wish would go away? Just if I ever hear it again, it'll be too soon.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Ugh, I mean, this whole notion to push through pain. Yes, I I really do think you know that needs to go away. I pay so much respect to Simone Biles um for really being an example, a worldwide example of what it means to say, no, I'm actually not okay, and I'm actually not gonna push through right now. Yes. And her not pushing through in those Tokyo games and coming back and killing it, yes, killing it the next time and teaching us all, yes, you know, that there are times you need to retreat.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Can you imagine her mindset? Can you imagine her mindset during that time and all the internal turmoil of and everybody is saying everything, every news station, every sports station, every all social media channels to say, I need to do this, it's okay for me to do this. It took so much. And there was a WNBA player, and I don't want to get it wrong, so I'm not gonna say her name, but the one that chose to not play in the WNBA for one year so that she could go and play in another country because she needed to rest her body, and she caught pure hell because for one, they were paying her seven figures in that other country, and they paid her not to play in the USA. And she really, I mean, she she really took the heat for that. But I love those those two examples because sometimes you you just need to chill out. So you need to chill out. You need to take care and heal the pain. Yes. Stop stop playing through all the pain. Okay. Pregame ritual before a big meeting or a big coaching session.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Oh, yeah. Breathing all day, every day. Connected, conscious breathing. I take breaths. I, you know, I have different kinds of breathing that I teach folks. But it's the, I always say what we the greatest resource we all have at any moment is our breath. And so I'll I'll breathe in for five, hold it for five, out for five, do that three times, um, and then I'm ready to go. My nervous system is regulated and we're ready to get it.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

I um I've been studying meditation for some years now, but and so I try to I try to start every day with it. But breathing has become more important. I've in every shower now. I'm doing three breaths. I'm holding, um, I'm breathing in for four, holding for seven, then breathing out. But we love to use these central oils in the baths in the uh shower. So now I got this whole thing like get my essential oils up. I'm gonna breathe, and now I'm ready to actually start bathing. And I'm just like, I hope it works. At least I feel I feel like I've taken a few minutes at the very least to just get my thoughts together. Uh well, describe the leadership style in one single sports term.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

In one single sports term. Ooh, that's hard. Yeah, it's kind of hard. You know, I said one earlier, and I think I'll just I'll stay on this thread. I said just do it. You know, um, at the end of the day, I'm gonna cheat a little bit. Not before just do it, center yourself and then just do it. Yeah. Is the you know, thing that I've learned to put on the beginning side of that.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Okay. I love it. Now, this is one of my favorite questions. What would your soundtrack be? Not soundtrack, a song, music that that uh you, if you were announced like a WMB NBA player, what's the song you want to come out to?

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Oh, what's the song I want to come out to? I was just having this conversation with a good friend of mine. I'm terrible at this because I don't remember the names of songs. If I hear it, I'll know all the lyrics, but don't necessarily know the name. Um, for whatever reason, the corniest this song is so corny. The one that just popped up, I'm like, really? I don't even really like this song. But the Eye of the Tiger just came up. I'm like, really? The eye of the Tiger. Okay, okay. I like Rocky. And I'm like, why is that coming through right now? That is not it.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Listen, if Rocky is on, I'm watching it. So I I get it. I mean, it it does it. Yes. See, I'm motivation by TI. Yes, y'all, I like a little trap music. Motivation by TI is, I mean, that's it. I'm ready. I'm I'm ready to do whatever. Yes. All right. If personal culture were a basketball move, is it a crossover? Are you dunking it, or is it a fast break?

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Oh, it's a fast break. It's a fast break. I'm fast, I'm naturally fast. I'm like, I'm, you know, it's me against you. By the time we get down down there, it's one-on-one. I'm like, bop, bop, let's go. It's a fast break.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Okay. One superpower speed, stamina, or accuracy.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Speed, stamina, accuracy. Stamina.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Stamina.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah, definitely stamina. Yeah, and I and that still that goes back down to my spiritual practices. That's what's giving me stamina. Yeah. Yeah, for the long haul.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

You gotta, you gotta have the long haul. Gotta be here for the long haul. Game day snack, sweet, salty, or both?

SPEAKER_03 47:52

You know what? I'm a savory person. So salty. Yeah, I'm a popcorn girl. You know, I want a little something, little something with a little twang to it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

What is your go-to self-care routine after a long week?

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Ooh, journaling. I have to get it out of my head. You know, there's nothing like just stream of consciousness, you know, and I'm talking to God the whole time, you know, just this is what's going on, this is what's going on. I need you to take this, I need you to take that. I tried everything here and just trusting and having unshakable faith that God really does have it. Yeah. Um, and I no longer need to carry it myself. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

You could have court-sized seats to any historic basketball game. Which one would it be?

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Ooh, which historical. I you know what? I have never been to a live women's March Madness. Okay, I'm putting it out there. Me either happened. Final four series. Like, I want to see those two final games. Let's make a date. I've been saying this. Let's make a date. We are going. This is happening. Okay. The fact that it's yours too, it is it's happening, okay? That it's happening.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Okay, if you were not in business, uh, what sport would you play professionally?

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Basketball. And it's interesting. So I was just having this conversation. Basketball is actually not the sport that I would say I'm the best in, you know, skill-wise. Yeah. But I love playing it. Like the basketball is just when I get out there, I feel most myself. It brings me back to being on the court. Also grew up with a bunch of guys in the neighborhood, um, you know, playing with them, trying to earn their respect on the court and getting much faster and better by playing with them. Um, it just brings me back to so much joy, you know, and freedom. Um, and you know, with basketball, there's so much improv with basketball. I've always said, you know, I'm best on the on the um, you know, cuff, off the cuff. And I think a lot of that goes from being a baller.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Yeah, I love it. We are gonna end it on the note of joy. So I love that. Shayna, thank you so much for being here. I really, really appreciate it. Shayna Renee Hammond just gave us the real, from the court to the corner office, from leading schools to leading movements. What I love about her story is how sports, business, and life all came down to the same thing: showing up, playing your position, and creating culture everywhere you go. That's personal culture. It's not just who you say you are, it's how people experience you. Shana reminded us that no matter the setbacks, you can still make the comeback if you're willing to be better than your BS. Until next time, I want y'all to keep it real, keep it human, and keep being better than your BS.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Got a mirror in the mind, reflecting the test. What's the truth in your soul? What's the light you suppress? Till the layers back, onion of success. Gotta shut that OC and no time to progress from the ballroom table to the block of the S.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Want more of what you're watching? Watch us on Roku, Amazon Fire, or listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio to name a few.