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Matt Gault: Fort Ligonier, and Washington's Brush with Death on the Battlefield
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November 12, 1758. The story of Washington "putting his life in the most jeopardy it had ever been before or since:"
"...Colonel Mercer is engaged with the enemy...He needs help. So Washington... takes a group of volunteers, mainly from his Virginia regiment... to go out to reinforce Colonel Mercer. Forbes will write that he sent out a group to surround the enemy. So we think Washington is...using the musket fire to pretty much guide him as he goes, keeping it off on one of his sides, so that way he can continue to scoot around behind the enemy. And the ideal plan is get them caught in a crossfire and take prisoners. You know, any prisoners they can get, information on Fort Duquesne is going to be incredibly crucial. But as he's moving along, it's darker, it's getting darker and darker and darker. And the only thing he has is that musket fire. That's his northern star. And then all of a sudden it stops. And because it stops, now he's lost that guide. He sends out scouts, but they don't run into anything. But as he's going, what happens? Maybe there's a shadowy figure that darts from one tree to another. There's a flash of a musket barrel, a musket shot fires out, natural instinct is to fire back. Many of these men are Virginians. They begin to fan out to the trees, taking deadly aim where they can see, because they're good woodsmen. They know how to fight in this terrain. And perhaps as Washington is assessing the situation, maybe he hears a familiar voice. Maybe he sees in one of those musket flashes a flash of a blue and red officer's uniform, and he realizes that the worst thing has occurred. This is not the enemy. He has not run into the French or the Native Americans. Instead, he has run into Colonel Mercer and their own soldiers.
Matt Gault Bio:
Matt Gault was named Fort Ligonier’s Director of Education and Living History in 2025 after acting as the Director of Education since May of 2020. Matt’s career began at Fort Ligonier as a college intern while enrolled at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown. Upon graduation, he was selected to join Fort Ligonier’s Education Department as the Assistant Director of Education in 2014.
During his time at the Fort, Matt has received several prestigious recognitions including the Laurel Highlands Visitors Bureau 2017 Tourism Employee of the Year Award and the PA Museums Association Carol Wickkiser Award presented to an outstanding young museum professional.
Matt leads the development and production of Fort Ligonier’s educational initiatives including exciting educational and living history programs for students and visitors from all across the globe. Matt is also known for his riveting portrayal of a young George Washington and will go to great lengths to increase awareness about French and Indian War history. In August 2021, clad in a breechcloth, Matt was the only historical interpreter to complete a 30-mile hike from Fort Ligonier to Bushy Run to commemorate Bushy Run’s anniversary. Matt resides in Greensburg, Pennsylvania with his family.
https://www.fortligonier.org
Welcome to We Love PA History, the podcast where we explore the stories, people, and moments that shaped Pennsylvania and helped shaped America. I'm Connie Doebele, and each episode we'll uncover a piece of our shared past, from famous events you thought you knew to hidden stories waiting to be rediscovered right here in the Keystone State. So let's jump into today's story. Matt Gault is our guest today. He is the Director of Education at Fort Ligonier. Thanks so much for joining us. Looking forward to hearing the important stories you'll be sharing with us.
Speaker 2Hi, it's great to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Speaker 1Where are you?
Speaker 2Right now, I am at Fort Ligonier in our education department offices. So we are right on the historic site, the museum itself, as well as the reconstructed fortification from 1758 to 1766. And I know the people out there in the world can't see me right now, but behind me is several muskets. I got a mannequin head back there, all kinds of things that you might find in the museum world, kind of behind the scenes, as opposed to what you might see walking out on the grounds at Fort Ligonier.
Speaker 1Where are you located in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2Yeah, so we're actually not too far outside of Pittsburgh, about an hour or so uh heading east. But if you're familiar also with La trobe, Greensburg, we're only about 15 to 20 minutes from them as well, right along the Route 30 corridor in the little town of Ligonier, Pennsylvania. So if you come on down to Ligonier, they're part of the reason you'd be visiting the town is because this fort existed. So that's our location.
Speaker 1Who was Ligonier?
Speaker 2Yes, great question. Who was Ligonier? And even within the name itself, we kind of have a story. Uh, and that's because a field marshal John Ligonier was actually originally a French Huguenot, Huguenot, who fled religious persecution and then eventually ended up in the British Army and rising through the ranks, ended up being in charge of a lot of these forces, and very specifically had this fort named after him. So that's actually how we get Fort Ligonier and the town of Ligonier is from someone who was originally French, even though in the French and Indian War, he's on the British side. And then he is also, you have this town and this fort named after him. He never stepped foot in North America. So rather interesting within itself.
Speaker 1You mentioned that the French and Indian War, and I think that's a good place for us to start because I remember as a kid growing up in the Midwest, and you're studying history, right? And the idea of the French and Indian War, eh, it was before the Declaration of Independence. I don't really need to know much about this. But explain what the importance of that war was.
Speaker 2So the French and Indian War, and even kind of to go off of the way you just phrased it. You know, we think of the American Revolution in this pivotal moment, but you cannot tell the story of the American Revolution without what happened before. It is the road to revolution. So the French and Indian War sets the stage for all of these people, all of these events that are going to occur, of course. And within itself, even just studying the French and Indian War, which is part of a larger conflict, the Global Seven Years War, it's really important if we treat it, if we look at it on its own, even within itself, a crucial event in not only our local history and what we know in this story that we'll be talking about today, Western Pennsylvania, but also then up into the Great Lakes region, the Ohio country, New York, all these different places. And then after that, it's going to then explode around the globe. That we have the, as Winston Churchill called it, the first world war. So really, even just to look at it, you can look at multiple ways. There's the one that it is the lead up to the revolution, but also it's this pivotal moment of global clash and conflict that's going to establish territory, boundaries, conflict and conflict resolution. So it's a major story in our history books.
Speaker 1What was the conflict as it related to the area of Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2So, really, uh one of the easiest ways to start this story, uh, and really we find our visitors and even myself, uh, you know, an easy way to dip your toe into the French and Indian War in Western Pennsylvania is looking through the eyes of our first president and looking at him as more of a man, a young person. Uh, he is not the founding father yet. He is not the general of the Continental Army. He is not the, you know, dollar bill president that we are so familiar with. But whenever Washington is a young man, he finds himself getting caught up in this conflict over the Ohio Territory. And what we know is Western Pennsylvania, up into areas that we know as Ohio. And it's going to be a conflict over land, power, resources, uh, relationships, all these things that, of course, when we study our history, that come into play. Uh, but the Ohio territory is a very fertile area. Land speculation, resources, the fur trade. You have all these different elements that people want, uh, especially with the British colonies, expansion further west. Uh, for the French, they also want to expand further south from what we know as New France or Canada today, coming down into that territory, utilizing those resources, the fur trade. The British, as I said, moving west for land speculation, territory, but then also Native Americans, these various nations that get caught up in the middle. This has been their homes for hundreds of years, and now we have European expansion that's going to lead to either conflict, sometimes alliances are made, and other times Native Americans try to remain out of either side. So you see, you have all these moving parts that are going on. And when Virginia realizes that a lot of the French that they're starting to build these fortifications or strongholds moving further south, Washington is sent north to deliver a summons or essentially to say, hey, this is our territory. I think you need to leave. This belongs to the king. And when he arrives to the French commandant, the French are going to tell him, basically, hey, you and what army, we're not going anywhere. And Washington hightails it back to Virginia. On his way back, he gets shot at. He falls in an icy river. You know, these a lot of this story is what we find in our textbook. You know, we have these stories about Washington that create this young man. And as he heads back to Virginia and he gets the governor, the governor publishes his journals. And now we know that this conflict is revving up. You know, we have these stages of escalation and diplomacy. And as they continue to escalate, we're getting higher and higher to that point of when will be the breaking point? Uh, when will shots be fired on the frontier? Uh, and of course, we actually end up seeing that the very next year. So when Washington had delivered that message, it was 1753. Now, the next year in 1754, we are going to have events that occur, such as the incident at Jumonville Glen, the ensign de Jumonville, that story is, you know, these are all stories we could go into very much in depth. But after that moment where Washington has a brief engagement with a French party he believes to be acting in a nefarious nature, looking for him, and they deal with them. There's soldiers that are wounded or killed, they retreat to a place called the Great Meadows, construct what we know as Fort Necessity, a very familiar name to many of us. And then the French come out of what we know as Fort Duquesne at that point. They had established a foothold at the forks of the Ohio, uh, where the three rivers meet, the Ohio, the Monongahela, and the Allegheny. And at the Great Meadows or Fort Necessity, Washington is going to be defeated by the French, and he will be forced to surrender. And when he surrenders, he signs a document that does hold him personally responsible for the assassination of that French diplomat, the ensign de Jumonville, who he had met in that skirmish just not long before. Now, Washington doesn't know when it was translated for him, he was, he believes he was given a different translation. He was given something else. He will, till his dying day, he says he did not, he was not familiar with those words that were used. But this is really when we see the first shots fired on the frontier. Very next year, you have Braddock's defeat and Braddock's army trying to take Fort Duquesne. It's a failure. So you see there's a lot of clashes that are happening out here in the middle of the wilderness. And the crazy thing is, war hasn't even officially been declared yet. Even though these shots are fired, there is no official decree from the king, not until 1756. So some of those first shots that George Washington was out here firing, he was in command, leadership falling squarely on his shoulders. It's actually technically not even within the parameters of the official war.
Speaker 1So where does Fort Ligonier raise and whose idea was it, and when was it necessary?
Speaker 2Certainly. So truly, whenever we see Washington fire these first shots, we have the thing, the events that occur at Fort Necessity, we have Braddock's defeat. And again, all of these were to control the Ohio country, but very specifically a point called the Forks of the Ohio. So where those three rivers meet and where Fort Duquesne has been established is what we know as present-day Pittsburgh. But why the rivers are so important is because it's easy transportation. These are your highways of the 1700s. So of course, when we have uh these three rivers, if you control that point, you can control for hundreds of miles. You can move troops where you need them, you can move supplies very easily. It opens up into trade into the interior of what we know falling down the Ohio River. So it's a very crucial point. Uh, and where we had seen Washington have trouble in 1754, we have General Edward Braddock run into a terrible defeat in 1755, it's not gonna be again tried to take these forks to the Ohio until 1758. So three years after this terrible, brutal defeat, now General John Forbes is tasked with taking an army from what he's gonna start in as Philadelphia and move to get to Fort Duquesne and take it from the enemy. Now, how is he going to do that? Well, he decides that he's going to build a road and he's gonna build fortifications to protect him as he goes along. This idea of a protected advance. Uh, he actually follows a military treatise, and what it says, it equates this movement to a siege of a fortification of an enemy. Because whenever you're laying siege to the enemy, you're trying to get closer to their walls. So that way you can be able to bombard them and bring the walls down. So what he's doing is instead of, you know, in this confined area of being right up against someone else's fortress, he's using this idea across the frontier that as he goes, he'll be able to protect himself but get closer to the enemy. So as he does that, he's gonna build these supply depots or these small fortifications where he can resupply himself, get his troops up, and continue to move forward and protect himself. So as he goes, he builds, well, actually strengthens Fort Littleton and Fort Loudoun in Pennsylvania. If anyone is familiar with that name, that is because you can still visit those places today. And a lot of the names of these places have towns near them because there were forts there. So he establishes Littleton, Loudoun, really kind of builds it up for this army. And then he's gonna move to a place called Raystown, or what we know is Bedford today. So he's gonna construct there the post at Rays Town, or what will later become named Fort Bedford. Now you might be wondering, okay, so who's doing all the heavy lifting here? How strong is this army? Well, Forbes, when he puts this together, he's gonna have about 6,000 soldiers. Uh, we think sometimes the numbers range from about six to seven thousand, and they're the ones going to be your main construction force. They're chopping down trees, moving earth, building entrenchments, building storehouses, they're escorting convoys. This is there's a lot to do wherever these armies go. And whenever they're at Raystown, they realize that they have to make a decision. Either they're going to drop down and take the old Braddock Road that has been established three years ago, or General Forbes is going to move over the Allegheny Mountains, over the Laurel Hill, and down the other side, and then make his final push to Fort Duquesne. He eventually decides that that will be the route he will choose. Rather than drop down to the old Braddock Road, he will go over the mountains, build a brand new road using the manpower that he has, taking the artillery up over these difficult mountains and hopefully down the other side and then entrench and then move on to Fort Duquesne. So as he does that, it's difficult. There are quotes where they say the trees are hard as iron. They're breaking their axes to pieces. Forbes affectionately names the Laurel Hill, he calls it the bugbear. That's how much he doesn't like it. You know, this is hard stuff. This is a Herculean effort to get over the mountains. And really, you see that final push happening in August and September of 1758. So by this point, this final push over the mountains, that means we are getting dangerously close to autumn and fall and also into winter. Whenever they get to the other side of Laurel Hill and come down, the next place where they will entrench is what we will now, well, what we call Fort Ligonier, but what they called the post at Loyalhanna. Loyalhannah is a word that means it's a Delaware or Lenape word that means Middle Stream. And there was, and somewhere in this area, there was actually a Native American village as early as about 1727. So they probably picked this spot because there was some area that they could entrench and build a fort for the army to be here. When that occurs, it's about the beginning of September that they're entrenching. Well, that means they have the month of September into October, and then if we have a good campaign season, maybe November before we start getting really heavy snow and whatnot, this is now becoming a race against time. And that's truly what we see in these pivotal months of September, October, and November of 1758. And truly, the Forbes campaign hangs on the edge of a knife of will it succeed or will it fail in that fall of 1758?
Speaker 1We've been talking to Matt Gault, Director of Education at Fort Ligonier. This is We Love PA History, a podcast of the Pennsylvania Heritage Foundation, a nonprofit organization building awareness, understanding, and appreciation for the rich history and heritage in our Commonwealth. I have to take you then to November 12th 1758. This is a story that I have been waiting to hear for ages. What happened to George Washington that day?
Speaker 2Well, before we even get to November 12th, because it is, this is it's a pivotal moment. I'm gonna give you just a few things right beforehand because it makes the story it's as we've continued to do research at the fort and dive into this, it really lets us know that this is not only a pivotal moment in Washington's life, but truly the Forbes campaign may have failed if it had not been for this moment that involved George Washington in the most jeopardy he had ever been in before or since. But whenever they start entrenching here at what we know Fort Ligonier, Post of Loyalhannah, that happens throughout September. The French actually come out from Fort Duquesne in October to attack this post. Uh, if for those who ever come out to the town of Ligonier, if you come the second weekend of October, it's Fort Ligonier Days, and they are commemorating that battle that was fought. And the French, when they come out, they're trying to keep General Forbes at bay. They're trying to slow him down, stay out here for the winter, buy time. Because what General Forbes and his army do, what they don't know is that Fort Duquesne is very weak. It's low on food, low on supplies. The Native American relations are rather iffy. Many of the soldiers have been sent home. But again, the British don't know this. So General Forbes and his force are still thinking that they're going to attack Fort Duquesne. But if the French can keep them here for the winter, they buy themselves time for reinforcements. So on October 12th, they sent those troops out. They did their job. They raided the post. They took all the horses that were here on that day, meaning now the army can't really move because it can't move its cannons, can't move its supplies. And if they bring up new horses, it's gonna take time. And it's gonna cause the British kind of to what are we gonna do next? You know, we're in this holding pattern for a few weeks. And at this point, after the French have gone back to Fort Duquesne, they pretty they think that, you know, we've done our job. We 've slowed Forbes down, we've done what we need to do. So now we get to the end of October. George Washington will arrive at the post at Loyalhannah. He had not been here until then. I mean keep that in mind that it is it is our end of October, and now George Washington is arriving here, and the army that a lot of it is starting to consolidate to get up here the full force of it. Now, I would also say that George Washington, he had always been an advocate of the Braddock Road. And why he was an advocate of it is because he wrote in several letters, one that very specifically, where he laid out his plan to General Forbes. And he said in there, if we don't do this, we will run out of time. It's the end of October when he's getting here. I have a feeling George Washington was probably going, I told you this was gonna happen. Now, either way, General Forbes had made his decision. He had made his decision to go over the mountains. Washington was probably, you know, gritting his teeth and still kind of coming along. Um, but he had a little bit, you know, he had a temper. He was a young man. He's all of us, he's human. You know, he was frustrated with his boss. Who can't relate with that. We've all been there. And he arrives at the end of October. And he and also other officers, uh, even the second in command, uh, and even and Forbes, they realized the writing is on the wall. We either have to go now or we have to make a decision. Are we gonna stay here? You know, this is the point of no return may be passed. We already got our artillery over the mountains. Now, if winter comes, we're not gonna be able to get it back. This is, this is truly the breaking point of the Forbes campaign. November 11th, General Forbes will call a council of war. He calls his officers together, including George Washington, his second in command, Colonel Henry Bouquet, the quartermaster, and some of the main people on this campaign. And what do they do? They make a pro and con list, just like we would today. How do we know? It still exists. They line up the positives and the negatives, and they,, at the end of the meeting, they say the negatives outweigh the positives. They know the sole course that prudence dictates, and that is that General Forbes will give the order to go into winter quarters. So, what that means is that on November 11th, the campaign is suspended. Whether it picks up the next year, whether it continues in some capacity to get troops out here next spring, maybe, maybe that won't happen. But either way, on November 11th, the campaign is over. General Forbes and his army have not been successful in taking Fort Duquesne. Washington, again, through those gritted teeth, is probably like, well, I feel like this was a waste of time. What's gonna happen, we don't know. History has impeccable timing, though, because the very next day, on November 12th, most likely, you know, Forbes is writing orders to give out half rations. He's trying to figure out how we're gonna go into winter quarters. Is he gonna send parts of this army back over the mountains? Is he gonna keep a bare bones garrison at Fort Ligonier? What's gonna happen with the artillery? What happens if the French come out and attack? But then gets a report that the French and their native allies are nearby. There's a raiding force, probably within two to three miles from this post. At this point, uh Lieutenant Colonel Mercer of the Virginia Regiment is gonna be sent out to go, and he's the second Virginia Regiment, excuse me. But he's gonna be sent out to go deal with this force. And we believe he takes about 500 soldiers. Now, when this happens, it's starting to get later into the day. All right. So, really, you know, it's starting to get dark, especially in Ligonier. We're surrounded by hills, you know, it's a valley. They call it the Ligonier Valley. Uh, and when the sun goes down, it goes down a lot earlier than the traditional one we're told sunset is. So the shadows start playing tricks on your eyes and the Forest. It's difficult to see. And they go out over the nearby hillside that is across from where our fortification is. And there are some reports that musket fire can be heard, meaning that Colonel Mercer is engaged with the enemy. And there's others that not only can it be heard, it's getting louder, meaning that he's giving ground. He needs help. So Washington will write that with permission from the general, he takes a group of volunteers, mainly from his Virginia regiment, and then he's going to go out to reinforce Colonel Mercer. Forbes will write that he sent out a group to surround the enemy. So we think Washington is actually going to follow the loyal hannah, and he's using the musket fire to pretty much guide him as he goes, keeping it off on one of his sides, so that way he can continue to scoot around behind the enemy. And the ideal plan is get them caught in a crossfire and take prisoners. You know, any prisoners they can get, information on Fort Duquesne is going to be incredibly crucial. But as he's moving along, it's darker, it's getting darker and darker and darker. And the only thing he has is that musket fire. That's his northern star. And then all of a sudden it stops. And because it stops, now he's lost that guide. He said apparently he sends out scouts, but they don't run into anything. But as he's going, what happens? Maybe there's a shadowy figure that darts from one tree to another. There's a flash of a musket barrel, a musket shot fires out, natural instinct is to fire back. Many of these men are Virginians. They begin to fan out to the trees, taking deadly aim where they can see, because they're good woodsmen. They know how to fight in this terrain. And perhaps as Washington is assessing the situation, maybe he hears a familiar voice. Maybe he sees in one of those musket flashes a flash of a blue and red officer's uniform, and he realizes that the worst thing has occurred. This is not the enemy. He has not run into the French or the Native Americans. Instead, he has run into Colonel Mercer and their own soldiers. When this happens, and when he realizes this, he will write down that he moves down the line, knocking up muskets out of the way, yelling out for a ceasefire, and as he put it, putting his life in the most jeopardy it had ever been before or since. Now, for the man and for Washington, you know, he will write this down, but it won't be until 30 years later, vividly recounting this moment. Now, when it comes to the death toll from this incident, there's going to be between about 12 and 16, we believe, who are killed from this friendly fire. 40 casualties. That was a Lieutenant Evans of the Royal Americans. And his final resting place, along with those who were also killed, is on that field. That is their final, their final resting place. Because Washington will order that the very next day he sends out a group that is to go out and bury those who had died at that skirmish. But if there is a silver lining, of course, this is a terrible loss of life from a terrible mistake. And I think, you know, it weighs on Washington. He writes about it in a very vivid way 30 years later. But the silver lining is while this all went, all this went down, while this engagement occurred, at some point there were a few French stragglers taken prisoner from that initial group. So even though the rest of them had pretty much made their way out of the area, there's prisoners taken. They're brought back here, and on that hillside that you can't see right now, but I'm pointing behind me, where the fort is, is actually where they question these prisoners. They find out enough information that Fort Duquesne is weak, low on ammunition, food, and that also that many of their Native American allies have left for the winter. General Forbes, this is enough to make him change his order and move immediately. So now he gets the army moving with the idea we're going to move and attack Fort Duquesne and lay siege to it now. But rather than finding a battle or a siege, what will they find? They will find that Fort Duquesne has been burnt to a crisp because the French have burned their fort with the idea we can't, we're not going to be able to hold out against you. Why sacrifice life so needlessly? And they burn their own fort to the ground and they leave and they head up north and hopefully to kind of reconsolidate some of their power and their strength. But Forbes will be carried into the forks of the Ohio, and he will give it the name that we are so familiar with, which is Pittsburgh. But since he was Scottish, we believe he probably would have said Pittsburr, as opposed to Pittsburgh. So truly, the friendly fire incident and that engagement, everything that happened on November 12th, it's what makes the taking of Fort Duquesne and what will be the holding of the Three Rivers possible. If it had not been for that information, if it had not been this moment, we may not see what we know is Pittsburgh today, and our history would have been altered. So this friendly fire incident, when Washington writes 30 years later, after the revolution, right about the before he's about to become president, he's talking about this moment. It obviously left a deep impact. And it also showed us that before he was that the dignified general, out here on the frontier, he was showing us what he would become. So on that day when he's he goes down the line knocking up pieces out of the way, trying to stop the firing, it shows us that he's willing to step forward rather than behind.
Speaker 1Twenty-six years old.
Speaker 2Yeah, young man. I think it's a very fascinating story.
Speaker 1Now, the story of this. Has it evolved over time? Have you found archaeological work in the area of Fort Ligonier that has been able to give some underpinning to that story?
Speaker 2Yes, it has. So it's been a it's been an experience, I think, for all of us to actually call in an archaeological team working with Juniata College, Dr. Jonathan Burns, uh, to do metal detecting on the presumed site. You know, and I would I say presume because we were saying that for so long, because we've done four to five years of archaeological digs out there. Um we are confident that this is the friendly fire location because every year we go back, we find new artifacts. We find especially what I thought was very telling uh is all the lead that they keep pulling up. You know, when you have over a thousand people on this in this area, this space, there's gonna be a lot of lead that's out there flying. Uh, and as we know, the Ligonier Valley has been farmed, it's been logged for so many years. So, where a lot of these areas that if this was just some small skirmish, if this was just a few shots here and there, there's a good chance a lot of that lead would be gone because it was farmed or it was in trees and cut down. But instead, they're still finding a large concentration, which means even though there has been a great deal that's happened all over this area, they're still finding it. You know, so it screams to me that this is a very large engagement that occurred. And of course, our archaeologists that are on this would agree as well. So they're looking and they're finding firing lines, they've done a lot of metal detecting. Uh, and it's not just lead, you know, they're finding buckles, they're finding buttons, uh, all kinds of things that are along there, because it's also, I believe, near the Forbes Road. Uh so since the Forbes Road went through, yes, you're gonna find things along the road, but when everything begins to fan out and spread out, you start to see, oh, there's more happening here. This is not just road traffic. So, yes, the archaeological digs that have occurred, primary source research, and what we can find to bring those all together, um, truly, they are all pieces of the pie. They all work together so well, and it just helps build this story. And that's the best way to do it. I mean, you get your primary sources, your historians, your archaeologists, the artifacts themselves, and it's this beautiful hodgepodge that we put together and that gives us this view into the past, into this very crucial moment in Washington's life.
Speaker 1How long have you been interested in history?
Speaker 2I myself, I would say I've been interested probably since I was a little kid. And now when I say that, I mean some of my first trips that I remember were to places like Gettysburg, you know, and I think the bug kind of catches us all at some point in our life, and especially for young people. It's going to a historic site, they held something, they saw something, they saw a reenactment, you know, they saw an artifact. So I, you know, it's it's been since I was a kid. Uh, but the best thing about working at a historic site is we see people who come in and say, I hated history when I was a kid, and now I love it. You know, and I think that's, you know, that's so special that we can not only reach out to children, but we're getting people who come in here in their 50s and 60s and they're saying, I'm just a new history buff. I just want to know more, which is great.
Speaker 1So after uh 1758, how long was Fort Ligonier around?
Speaker 2It was around till 1766. So it does last eight years. We see it, the the way the fort will look really changes over the years. And that's just because you go from a garrison of having an army move through here. So you have 6,000 people that are coming along with the idea of taking Fort Duquesne. After that, you see the garrison get smaller and smaller. Uh, there are times when there's 300 soldiers here. Then we get to points where there are literally six soldiers. And that was that's not me miss 60 or 600, uh six. You know, it is a frontier wilderness post along the road. So you see really all these different moments in the fort's life. And there's a lot of great stories from all the years, not just 58, because we do see that Washington, you know, Washington goes home after 1758 and the fall of Fort Duquesne. He has to marry his wife, and also he's going to become very focused on his farm and politics. General Forbes, he was actually sick during the entire campaign. Just a few months after this, in March of 1759, he dies. So, you know, some of these big players, they aren't here for very long, but they kick off this story of the fort. And then our job now is we get to tell all the little stories throughout those other years as well.
Speaker 1How much of Fort Ligonier today is original?
Speaker 2So all of it that we have is a reconstruction when you head up onto the hill onto our historic site. The inner fort itself, though, due to archaeology that was done in the 1960s by Jacob Grimm, he found the fort. Uh so he found the outline, he found, you know, the bastions, the crib work walls. Uh, and because he found those, they actually reconstructed the fort on the exact spot. So that inner fort, when I mean that, I mean it looks like a turtle. It has the four bastions, it's right on top of the hill. They did, that is exactly where the fort was. And then also the other buildings that have been added on, entrenchments, things like that, those have been added on due to maps that have been found. So there is historical interpretation that occurs as well. Um, but truly, if you go and you stand up on what we call the parade field, you are standing and walking where these people did. And I think that is something that's so important when it comes to history, the power of place, that you are where they walked. Men, women, children, all making history in their own way.
Speaker 1I think you're gonna have a lot of visitors after this podcast. I certainly hope so. So, where can , when can people visit? Where do, you know, how do they get there?
Speaker 2Well, the easiest thing to do is, you know, we have daily programming. So check out our website. Go on our website, go out on our Facebook. You know, we have a lot of great programming that just happens during, you know, the regular day. Uh, right now we have interpreters who are outside. What I mean by that is we have uh those who are telling the story of the Virginians who were here, so they're dressed as Virginians. Uh, we have women who are outside talking about the various roles that women had on the campaign, because we know there's all these different groups of people that come out with General Forbes in this army that moves through and then throughout the fort's life till 1766. So if you head to our website, if you head to our Facebook, uh you'll be able to see the hours that we are open. You can come visit, take a tour, check out the new museum. Or I say new, but it's because we're always changing things. Check out the museum. And also this year with the 250th, we'll be having a new exhibit opening on July 4th. We actually we have two new friends here at Fort Ligonier because two sheep are actually on our grounds here because hey, animals were a part of the history as well. Uh, so you can come and visit the sheep that uh have made their homes here at the fort now. So there's just so much going on. So we hope that people will come and visit.
Speaker 1How are you financed? Who runs this p lace?
Speaker 2So we're a private nonprofit organization. You know, we are a 501c3. So truly, the admission that someone spends to come in the door, it helps preserve history. Uh, and that's something that, you know, it's sometimes it's hard. We we want to make sure that we let visitors know they're a part of this. You know, it is not just, hey, we're looking at this as just admission because I need a job. No, it is you are part of our history. By walking through that door, all the different stories that we continue to tell, whether that be finding new information, you're helping do that. You know, so as we create, you know, as we continue to tell this story, you come up, you pay your admission ticket, you purchase a tour, uh, you get to walk where these people did, but also you get to preserve for the next generation, the next group of children who are going to say, I love this story. I love where we came from and how we became who we are and how we can be better moving forward. I kind of wanted to put that out there because I hope visitors, that's what they take from this. That it is, it is all about continuing to tell the story.
Speaker 1Matt Gault is Director of Education at Fort Ligonier, and our guest this week on the We Love PA History podcast. Thanks so much for spending time with us.
Speaker 2Thank you. Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1And that's today's story from We Love PA History. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and share it with someone who loves Pennsylvania as much as you do. You can help others discover these stories by leaving a quick rating or review. It really makes a difference. The We Love PA History podcast is produced by Pennsylvania Heritage Foundation, a nonprofit organization that advances awareness, understanding, and appreciation of Pennsylvania's history and heritage. The Markosky Engineering Group, Incorporated, is a proud sponsor of the Pennsylvania Heritage Foundation, which carries out its mission on behalf of the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission and the citizens of Pennsylvania. Markosky is pleased to sponsor the We Love PA History Podcast. For more information about Markosky and its Pennsylvania history, visit Markosky.com. To learn more, take photos, and explore the places we've talked about today, visit us at paheritage.org or follow us on Facebook at Pennsylvania Heritage Foundation. I'm Connie Doebele. Thanks for listening. And until next time, keep exploring Pennsylvania's past. Because Pennsylvania history isn't just history, it's our story.
