The Epstein Files

File 164 - Bondi Told Fox the Client List Was on Her Desk. It Was Not. Trump Fired Her.

Island Investigation Episode 164

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0:00 | 26:25

Bondi told Fox News the client list was on her desk. It was not. She was fired April 2.

House Oversight subpoenaed her. She refused, claiming she is no longer AG. What was Bondi actually doing with the Epstein files.

Sources for this episode are available at: https://nbn.fm/epstein-files/episode/ep164

About The Epstein Files

The Epstein Files is an AI-generated podcast analyzing the 3.5 million pages released under the Epstein Files Transparency Act (EFTA). All claims are grounded in primary source documents, published on the Neural Broadcast Network website for verification.

Produced by Island Investigation

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SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to the Epstein Files. Last time we walked through four attorneys generals since Epstein died, and the identical pattern each one followed. Delay, deflect, obstruct. Today we're following the one who went on live television and promised the American public she had the Epstein client list on her desk. She did not. She was fired three weeks later. And now she is refusing a congressional subpoena. As always, every document and source we reference is available at the Neural Broadcast Network website. So in March 2026, Attorney General Pam Bondi appeared on Fox News and told the anchor the client list was on her desk. The list did not exist in the form she described. On April 2nd, Trump fired her.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And uh the transcript of that March 2026 Fox News broadcast really establishes the exact baseline for everything that follows in the documentary record. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we have to look closely at that broadcast.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus Exactly. Because during that interview, Attorney General Pam Bondi was asked a direct question about the status of the document releases required by law. And you know, she looked directly at the camera and stated unambiguously that the Epstein client list was on her desk.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell We must evaluate the precision of her language there. Right. Because she did not use broad bureaucratic terminology. She didn't say the department was reviewing records.

SPEAKER_01

No, she did not.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus Or that investigators were processing evidentiary materials. She used the exact phrase client list and she attached a physical location to it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Right. When a cabinet official claims a highly sought-after document is sitting on their physical desk, you are no longer dealing with an abstract policy goal. That is a concrete, verifiable claim of fact.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell And the term client list itself is entirely specific. It has functioned as a cultural and legal focal point dating back to the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus Which we have documented extensively. Yes. Exactly. During that prosecution, defense attorneys and federal prosecutors both navigated the reality that Epstein operated a sprawling, highly compartmentalized network. So the public response to the trial crystallized around the demand for a discrete, identifiable document. A document naming the individuals who actively consumed the services of that trafficking network.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Right. A master document.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus When the Attorney General of the United States uses that exact phrase, she is directly validating the public's operational definition. She is confirming that such a master document exists.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Which raises an immediate problem of falsifiability.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus Uh precisely.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus Because claiming an ongoing investigation is robust is just a subjective matter of political opinion.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

But claiming a specific document is located on a specific desk is a binary fact.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It either is or it isn't.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Either the list existed and was on her desk or it did not. So we must examine the actual contents of the documents released under the Epstein Files Transparency Act, or EFT, to verify her claim. And when we examine the ETIT releases and the congressional indices of withheld documents, we find a stark definitional contradiction.

SPEAKER_00

This is a crucial point.

SPEAKER_01

It is. Across the millions of pages of investigative materials, court filings, correspondence, financial records, flight logs, and witness statements currently in the public domain, or held in closed congressional session, there is no single document titled, labeled, or organized as an Epstein client list.

SPEAKER_00

So the document she described does not exist in the form she claimed.

SPEAKER_01

It does not. The transcript shows she made a definitive claim, but the documentary reality contradicts it entirely.

SPEAKER_00

The media reaction to her claim, however, was instantaneous.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

The phrase client list trended across major social media platforms within minutes of the broadcast. Legal commentators on multiple networks engaged in debates over whether the imminent release of this deskbound list would trigger new grand jury investigations.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And victim advocacy groups, who had spent years petitioning the Department of Justice for accountability, issued public statements of cautious optimism.

SPEAKER_00

The consensus among the public was that the government was finally preparing to name the consumers of the trafficking network.

SPEAKER_01

But to understand the mechanics of why her statement resonated so forcefully with you, the public, you have to look at the political context documented in the first quarter of 2026.

SPEAKER_00

The pressure on the Department of Justice was unprecedented.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, specifically regarding EFECE compliance.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

However, congressional oversight reports concurrently reveal that approximately 3 million pages remained entirely withheld from the public.

SPEAKER_00

That ratio is a massive transparency deficit.

SPEAKER_01

It is.

SPEAKER_00

Pam Bondi's predecessor, Merrick Garland, faced sustained, documented criticism from both congressional oversight committees and transparency advocants for the slow pace of EFTIC compliance.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he established a baseline of delay.

SPEAKER_00

So by going on national television and claiming the client list was already on her desk, Bondi was executing a deliberate political positioning exercise. The transcript shows she was presenting herself as the official cutting through the department's institutional red tape to deliver the singular document you, the public, demanded.

SPEAKER_01

But the absence of this document triggered an immediate reaction from within her own department.

SPEAKER_00

This is where the timeline becomes very revealing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Within 48 hours of the Fox News broadcast, Department of Justice staff began issuing indirect corrections.

SPEAKER_00

Indirect corrections, meaning they didn't officially retract her statement.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The mechanics of these corrections are documented in background briefings provided to national security and legal reporters.

SPEAKER_00

So career department spokespeople were speaking on the record, but carefully avoiding direct contradiction of their attorney general.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. They began contextualizing the file. They noted to reporters that the Epstein materials represent a vast, heterogeneous collection of raw data.

SPEAKER_00

They specifically pointed out that categorizing names found within these files as clients requires a complex analytical judgment. It is not a simple matter of reading a list. Looking at the Epstein files and calling it a client list is like walking into a grocery store, pointing at a pallet of raw flour, sugar, and eggs, and telling someone you have a freshly baked cake. Yeah. The ingredients are there, but the massive amount of labor required to assemble them into the final product has not even started.

SPEAKER_01

We can catalog exactly what ingredients the Department of Justice actually possesses based on the oversight indices.

SPEAKER_00

Let's uh we must break that down. Right.

SPEAKER_01

When we audit the government's holdings, we find several distinct categories of documents that contain names. First, there are 170 flight logs detailing passengers on Epstein's aircraft over a period of decades.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. The flight logs.

SPEAKER_01

Second, there is his personal contact directory, universally referred to as the Black Book. That contains over 1,000 names, addresses, and phone numbers.

SPEAKER_00

The Black Book.

SPEAKER_01

Third, there are thousands of pages of complex financial records tracking wire transfers, real estate purchases, and corporate shell company formations.

SPEAKER_00

The financial architecture.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And finally, there are the witness depositions and victim statements collected by federal investigators and civil attorneys over the course of 15 years.

SPEAKER_00

We must establish the legal distinction between a name appearing in a file and a name belonging on a client list.

SPEAKER_01

That is a critical distinction.

SPEAKER_00

Because the names in these disparate documents have vastly different degrees of connection to any criminal conduct. The contact book includes massage therapists, caterers, real estate agents, business associates, social acquaintances, politicians, and academics.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The flight logs include pilots, mechanics, and security personnel alongside guests.

SPEAKER_00

So an address book has zero evidentiary weight on its own for proving criminal clientele.

SPEAKER_01

Precisely. Therefore, compiling these disparate data points into a cohesive client list would require an exhaustive, forensic analytical process.

SPEAKER_00

A massive undertaking.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. To generate the document Pam Bondi described to the public, the Department of Justice would have to task a team of analysts and prosecutors to review the entire 3 million page withheld file and the 3.5 million page release file. Right.

SPEAKER_00

They would have to cross-reference a flight log from 2004 against a victim deposition from 2018, and then match both against a wire transfer from a shell company in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell They would have to distinguish between a scientist who attended a dinner party in New York and an individual who actively participated in and compensated the trafficking network.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Exactly. And we do not have documentation that such an analytical process was ever authorized, funded, or executed by the Department of Justice.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell That does not add up with her public statement.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell No, it does not. Because making the evidentiary judgment to officially categorize a private citizen as a client of a criminal trafficking enterprise carries severe legal and defamatory risks.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell The Department doesn't just put out a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus Right. The Department of Justice does not simply publish a spreadsheet of names without corroboration, grand jury proceedings, or due process protections. Because they avoid that level of institutional risk, the analytical work required to produce a definitive client list simply has not been done. Aaron Powell That leaves us with a binary reality regarding her national television appearance.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus A very stark binary reality. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Either Pam Bondy held a loosely related stack of raw documents, perhaps the Black Book, or a stack of flight logs and vastly overpromised its contents to you by calling it a client list. Right. Or she did not have any such document on her desk at all, and she made a fabricated claim to generate a favorable political news cycle.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell And neither of those interpretations aligns with the statutory mandate of the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell No, neither one constitutes transparency. Overpromising raw data or fabricating the existence of a consolidated report both serve the exact same function.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus Yeah. Obscuring the actual state of the evidence.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus, Exactly. It exploits the public demand for a specific document without delivering the accountability that document would represent.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell And this discrepancy between public claims and documentary reality reached a breaking point exactly three weeks later.

SPEAKER_00

April 2nd.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. On April 2nd, 2026, President Donald Trump terminated Pam Bondi.

SPEAKER_00

The timeline of this termination is central to understanding the operational mechanics of the department during this period. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

It is. She was removed approximately 15 months into her tenure as Attorney General.

SPEAKER_00

And exactly three weeks after the Fox News appearance.

SPEAKER_01

Right. When we map the convergence of events leading up to April 2nd, the documentary record reveals a department in absolute chaos over EFDO compliance.

SPEAKER_00

We must review the concurrent events documented in the 21 days immediately preceding the firing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, day one was the Fox News broadcast.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, day one.

SPEAKER_01

Day two was the internal Department of Justice panic, leading career officials to begin leaking corrections to the press.

SPEAKER_00

Right. The background briefings.

SPEAKER_01

Then by day five, as we covered in our review of previous files, Senator Wyden publicly revealed the existence of the OCD ETF memo.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, the OCD ETF memo. We need to remind the listener what that is briefly.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The OCD ETF memo is the directive actively blocking the release of organized crime, drug enforcement, task forces materials related to the Epstein Financial Network.

SPEAKER_00

It was the institutional mechanism used to shield money laundering and trafficking intersections from EFTA disclosure.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So that drops on day five. By day 10, the House Oversight Committee drastically intensified its inquiries into why three million pages were still being withheld under EFTA.

SPEAKER_00

They were applying direct legislative pressure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Then by day 15, victim advocacy groups were escalating their public criticism, demanding the physical release of the list Bondi had promised on television.

SPEAKER_00

And throughout this entire three-week period, her own staff was actively briefing the press to walk back her claim.

SPEAKER_01

It is within this specific documented convergence of institutional pressure that the firing occurred.

SPEAKER_00

But when we examine the official rationale provided by the administration for the termination, the statements focus entirely on bureaucratic metrics. Right. President Trump's public statements on April 2nd cited management and performance issues within the Department of Justice. The official explanation made no direct reference to the Epstein case, EFIS ray compliance, or the controversy surrounding the Fox News appearance.

SPEAKER_01

And the absence of an Epstein-related explanation in the official termination notice leads Congressional Oversight Committees to evaluate the timing independently.

SPEAKER_00

Because the timing is the only verifiable metric available for assessing the administration's posture.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Pam Bondi was removed during the absolute peak of congressional and public demand for transparency since the passage of the EFTA.

SPEAKER_00

The immediate succession plan implemented on April 2nd provides further data regarding the department's operational trajectory.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, following the termination, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche assumed operational control of the Department of Justice as the acting head.

SPEAKER_00

The elevation of Todd Blanche is highly relevant to the EFTA compliance timeline.

SPEAKER_01

Highly relevant because the documentary record confirms Blanche is the president's former defense attorney.

SPEAKER_00

A relationship that presents a documented conflict of interest regarding federal law enforcement operations.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But more importantly, for this analysis, Blanche is the official who was previously documented as the architect of the OCD ETF memo block.

SPEAKER_00

That is a significant fact. While presidents routinely fire cabin officials and cite generic management reasons, the observable effect in this instance is stark.

SPEAKER_01

Very stark.

SPEAKER_00

The firing replaced an attorney general who had publicly, albeit inaccurately, committed to massive Epstein transparency on national television with a deputy attorney general who had a documented structural history of restricting AFETA disclosures.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Intent is often shielded by executive privilege, but the effect of the transition is a matter of public record.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and the immediate effect was the total cessation of any public Department of Justice discourse regarding a client list.

SPEAKER_00

The department went completely dark on the issue.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely dark. So this abrupt transition, combined with the unresolved discrepancy of the Fox News claim, prompted the legislative branch to intervene.

SPEAKER_00

They had to step in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Following her termination, the House Oversight Committee issued a formal congressional subpoena demanding Pam Bondi's testimony.

SPEAKER_00

We must look at what a congressional subpoena actually demands. It is not a polite request for a conversation.

SPEAKER_01

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00

It is a legal compulsion to produce documents and provide sworn testimony.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And the scope of the oversight committee's subpoena was comprehensive. The document specifically sought sworn testimony regarding four distinct areas.

SPEAKER_00

Let's uh we should outline those four areas.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. First, the overall status of the department's compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Second, the internal processes governing redaction software and document withholding classifications, such as national security or grand jury rule six exemptions.

SPEAKER_00

The mechanics of the withholding.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Third, the origins and enforcement of the OCD ETF memo.

SPEAKER_00

Which Blanche architected.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And fourth, the subpoena demanded sworn testimony regarding the existence or the non-existence of the client list she claimed was on her desk during the March 2026 Fox News broadcast.

SPEAKER_00

So the committee was executing its constitutional oversight authority.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

They were attempting to compel a former executive branch official to reconcile a public statement about highly sensitive government records with the actual physical holdings of the Department of Justice.

SPEAKER_01

But Pam Bondi's legal counsel responded to the congressional subpoena with a formal refusal to comply.

SPEAKER_00

Her attorneys responded that because she was, quote, no longer A.G., unquote, she was no longer obligated to appear before the committee to discuss internal department matters.

SPEAKER_01

And the legal architecture of their refusal requires close examination.

SPEAKER_00

He does.

SPEAKER_01

They invoked a combination of residual executive privilege and the deliberative process privilege.

SPEAKER_00

You need to unpack that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The argument submitted to the committee asserted that compelling a former attorney general to testify about internal document reviews or policy decisions would permanently chill future deliberations among current Department of Justice staff.

SPEAKER_00

So they argued that officials must be able to debate the release of sensitive files without the threat of future congressional interrogation. Right. We need to examine how the deliberative process privilege functions in practice. Imagine you are brainstorming a highly complex strategy at your workplace. If you knew every single preliminary thought, every discarded draft, and every internal debate you had was going to be subpoenaed and put on the public record, you would never speak freely.

SPEAKER_01

No, you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00

That is the core of deliberative process privilege. It operates as the government's internal cone of silence.

SPEAKER_01

A tone of silence.

SPEAKER_00

It is designed to protect the integrity of decision making before a final policy is enacted. But Bondi was attempting to use that internal cone of silence to retroactively shield a public relations broadcast.

SPEAKER_01

And this legal posture creates a severe paradox of accountability.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

It highlights a massive asymmetry in how executive branch officials handle public information.

SPEAKER_00

The transcript shows that Pam Bondi voluntarily went on a cable news network and made an unsworn declarative statement of fact about the most sensitive document in the government's possession.

SPEAKER_01

Right. She did not invoke the deliberative process privilege when speaking to a television anchor.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

She offered the information freely to millions of viewers.

SPEAKER_00

Yet, when required by a co-equal branch of government to discuss that exact same document under oath in a setting where making false statements carries the legal consequence of perjury, she invoked privilege to shield herself from questioning. That does not add up. It is entirely inconsistent. If the claim she made on Fox News was factually true, if the compiled analyzed client list indeed existed and sat on her desk, then repeating that exact claim under oath before the House Oversight Committee carries absolutely no legal risk.

SPEAKER_01

None at all. Conversely, if the television claim was a fabrication or a gross mischaracterization of raw, unanalyzed data, repeating it under oath would constitute a felony.

SPEAKER_00

Perjury.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Therefore, the invocation of privilege in this specific context serves as a protective mechanism against the legal consequences of her prior public statements.

SPEAKER_00

It shields her from the factual verification of her own words.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The discrepancy between her willingness to broadcast a claim and her refusal to swear to it is the most informative data point regarding her tenure.

SPEAKER_00

It indicates that the political utility of promising transparency vastly outweighed the legal reality of delivering it.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus And the House Oversight Committee recognized this asymmetry.

SPEAKER_00

They did. In response to her refusal to testify, Democrats on the committee initiated proceedings for a contempt of Congress vote.

SPEAKER_01

We must examine the mechanics of a contempt referral.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the proceedings were initiated under Title II of the United States Code, Section 192. Right. This statute specifically addresses the refusal of a witness to comply with a valid congressional subpoena, making such refusal a misdemeanor offense.

SPEAKER_01

And the procedural path of a contempt resolution is particularly relevant here. Oh so uh if the oversight committee approved the contempt resolution, it would advance to the full House floor. Right. If passed by a majority of the House, the matter would be referred directly to the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia.

SPEAKER_00

Which is a component of the Department of Justice.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

That creates a structural irony that cannot be ignored. A massive irony.

SPEAKER_01

Right. However, the contempt resolution never reached the Department of Justice.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

It never even reached the full House floor.

SPEAKER_00

The Republican members of the House Oversight Committee executed a partisan block to defeat the resolution in committee.

SPEAKER_01

The documentation of the committee debate shows the specific arguments used to block the vote.

SPEAKER_00

We should look at those arguments.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Procedurally, the opposition argued that the scope of the subpoena was overbroad.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

They also argued that the majority had not exhausted all potential avenues of accommodation with Pam Bondi's legal counsel before escalating to a criminal contempt referral.

SPEAKER_00

That was the procedural argument.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Substantively, the opposition focused heavily on the precedent it would set for executive branch operations. Right. They argued that prosecuting a former cabinet official for invoking the deliberative process privilege would permanently damage the separation of powers.

SPEAKER_00

They claimed it would cripple the ability of future administrations to conduct internal policy debates.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that was the defense.

SPEAKER_00

But we must notice the glaring omission in the opposition's defense.

SPEAKER_01

A very telling omission.

SPEAKER_00

Throughout the extensive procedural and substantive committee debates, there was no defense mounted regarding the factual accuracy of the Fox News claim.

SPEAKER_01

None at all.

SPEAKER_00

No committee member argued that the client list actually existed.

SPEAKER_01

No, they didn't even touch the factual basis of the subpoena.

SPEAKER_00

The defense relied entirely on procedural friction to protect the former attorney general from testifying. Right. It is exactly like getting pulled over for reckless driving, but the police officer is legally prohibited from writing you a ticket unless your own defense attorney agrees to authorize it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the mechanism for accountability is entirely dependent on the consent of the party being investigated. And because the resolution was voted down along party lines in the committee, the congressional effort to compel Pam Bonnie's testimony was permanently terminated.

SPEAKER_00

This outcome exposes a severe structural weakness in the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

SPEAKER_01

We must analyze the practical precedent this establishes for all future disclosures. The EFTA mandates the release of documents, but it lacks an independent self-executing enforcement mechanism for congressional oversight.

SPEAKER_00

The Department of Justice retains total operational control over the physical documents, the redaction software, and the pace of the releases.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So when Congress attempts to verify the department's compliance or investigate public claims made by department leadership, it relies entirely on the subpoena power.

SPEAKER_00

But as the Bondi subpoena demonstrates, if a subpoena can be ignored through broad claims of privilege, and the subsequent enforcement of that subpoena requires a majority committee vote that can be blocked by partisan gridlock, then congressional oversight is effectively neutralized.

SPEAKER_01

It becomes voluntary rather than compulsory.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Executive branch officials can make whatever public claims they wish about the Epstein documents to satisfy short-term political demands.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and they face zero institutional accountability.

SPEAKER_00

And because the mechanism designed to enforce truthfulness, compelled congressional testimony, is disabled by the partisan structures it relies upon.

SPEAKER_01

We must synthesize the observable facts from the documentary records.

SPEAKER_00

But we should synthesize this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. In early 2026, the highest law enforcement official in the United States made a highly specific, verifiable claim about the most sensitive document in the government's possession.

SPEAKER_00

She told you, the public, that the client list was on her desk.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Internal records and Ifto releases confirm that the document in the consolidated form she described did not exist.

SPEAKER_00

She was removed from her position exactly three weeks later by the president who appointed her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And replaced operationally by an official with a documented history of blocking IFTO disclosures.

SPEAKER_00

When the legislative branch attempted to investigate this discrepancy, she refused to substantiate her television claim under oath.

SPEAKER_01

Right. She faced zero legal or professional consequences for this refusal because a committee vote was blocked along party lines.

SPEAKER_00

The claim that a consolidated client list was in the government's hands remains suspended in the public record.

SPEAKER_01

It is uncorrected by the official who made it, and it is unverified by the committee that investigated it.

SPEAKER_00

It exists purely as a political artifact. If this mechanism of absolute non accountability works perfectly for the Attorney General of the United States, allowing the public manipulation of evidence without legal consequence, it perfectly explains why the system has never worked for the victims. Next time on the Epstein files, Trump's next pick is Lee Zeldin. He gutted the EPA. He has never said a word about Epstein.