Introduction to Light Talks the Lens Light Life Podcast

Welcome to Lens Light Life, a new community for female photographers from around the world regardless of the genre. 

In this episode we meet the people behind Lens Light Life, being Gail Mitchell and Sarina Jackson, who are interviewed by Simon Turner and Phill Turner the producers/editors of Lens Light Life. 

We discuss our journeys and what we want from Lens Light Life and what is behind it all. A little bit of humour and potentially a few tears.

Instagram @lenslightlife

Facebook @Facebook/lenslightlife

Website www.lenslightlife.com

Copyright 2026 Lens Light Life Pty Ltd

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Introducing yourself. Goya. I can't. You know what?

SPEAKER_04 0:46

I've got something quite you introduce each other. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

I'd like to introduce you to Carol Mitchell.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Okay, let me. I wasn't expecting that so I have to come up with some lies.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Alright, let's do that again. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Just get it short and sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I'd love to introduce you to Gail Mitchell. She's one of my best mates and one of the greatest photographers I know. And I'm very excited to introduce Gail as part of the Lens Light Life duo. And welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Thank you, huh? Um, like Ditto, Serena Jackson. Ultimate photographer, extraordinaire goddess of in focus, has been doing this for so long. Um, way better known than me and an absolutely stunning photographer. Um, yeah, so really, really excited that the two of us have got together to look after other women photographers throughout the war.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

Lovely, well Simon and I really really looking forward to anything you do today. Well, wonderful things you're going to tell us about Lens Light Light. Um let's start off first with what's the heartbeat of Lens Light Light and if the mission statement were a single bold sentence, what would it say?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

There's so many. This is so hard. It could be as short as empowering more than photography, but it's so much more than that.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, I would say that I think that for me the tagline, I suppose, for Lance Light Life is celebrating women chasing light.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

I think that with a camera. Digital or film?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yes, in that format. In any format.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Even on a phone.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

So that's our mission statement. And what is a heartbeat?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Women chasing light.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

It's so good. I mean it it's what it's what excites us, it's what made us instantly become really close friends. It's like, and and the women that we know that are as passionate about photography as we are, it it is just that that light and ch and going to any extreme within reason to to capture it. So I I suppose it's that love and obsession and passion for what it is that we do that other women share.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

And I think just to take that one step further, I think the heartbeat is a the celebration of women doing that, but also to inspire more women to do that. So I think it's celebrating amazing women to inspire more amazing women.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

And and obviously not us. I mean, we we are the conduit. We you know we want to be the the means by which we showcase amazing women in photography. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

What moment or slow burn led to the creation of this platform? Was there a yes, this definitely needs to exist moment?

SPEAKER_02 4:03

For me, um, yes. So I I think Land's Light Life was born. Uh I was involved in a a previous landscape, women's landscape photography hub, I guess you could call In Focus Women, which is which has been amazing. Um, but I felt that there was a need for sort of multi-discipline, uh multi-genre, and also um not just uh Instagram or social media, but print um galleries, uh competitions, like just trying to get everything that we can to inspire and learn and uh celebrate women. Um and so it was not born in a second, it was it's sort of a it was it grew from constantly learning about what holds women back in photography, um the fact that there are so many incredible photographers that we don't know because there's no platform or real platform for those women to be uh showcased and therefore seen by other women. Uh, and so it it's it's kind of evolved over time, I think, and then us talking and and traveling and just being chasing light is what we that's what we call it. Um I think that it naturally evolved into something.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

And that was Serena making the whole thing sound so logical, and it so wasn't like it was it was it was I think for us it's been very emotionally driven. Like like the squeals and the excitement and the she doesn't sleep at night, the text at three o'clock in the morning going, what if and how about and and just like throwing this whole thing around as to how big it could become, and and then we shoot with a lot of women, and they come up against the same sort of issues. They it it's a little bit, I think it it's a little bit tougher being a woman photographer from a safety perspective, from an awareness perspective, from a having a voice perspective. Um so a lot of emotion came into that, and a lot of you know, well, what if we could do something? What if what if we could help these women have a voice?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So it's a logical progression, but and I think it's also just um what I would have loved when I first picked up the camera is what I would have loved to have had available to rather than yeah, just trying to search for it. I think.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Yeah, I think women support women. Like one of the things we've found is, and you've said it to me many times, she's happiest when I shine, and I'm happiest when she shines. We anything we learn we we share and we share it with you know with the with with the community that we we shoot with. There's nothing that we hold back. It's sort of like if you get better, we'll all get better. So so that's that's the way that we think. But I don't know, when I first started, I would have loved to have met someone like us who said, Hey, let me take you down to the beach and let me show you how to do a long exposure. You know, just you just it's not readily available, so we'd like to make it much more available.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Um what I was going to say was um I think something that really resonated with the way you both answered those questions just then, when you talk about voice and community as a father of two daughters, I think that's something really special. You know, the one thing that I want my girls to have in life is to be heard, to be appreciated, and to have a platform to be able to express themselves. And I think the fact that this is born out of an idea of community and sharing, I think makes this a really important project to be part of. Um so I guess off the back of that, what do you hope readers feel and experience when they dive into an issue?

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Inspired. I I for me, I I mean, I I got the absolute privilege of talking to some of the most incredible female landscape photographers doing the In Focus Women podcast, and every time I spoke to them, um I was inspired. I I felt like I needed to shoot better, I felt like I understood my story better, I felt like I understand it, did what that's terrible English, but I understood, understanded. Is that even a word? Understood um what I wanted to to convey better, um, and so I hope from what we can get from both our journey, albeit in the future it's going to be much smaller part than the first uh issue, but the journey of so many women and the the visuals of is just inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yeah, I think for a woman starting out in photography, it there's so much to learn, and if we can help in that education process, and if we can I mean you know, part of Lens Light Life will be an educational aspect where we will be able to just share our experience with with film, with working with editing suites, with you know working with cameras, etc. So I think it's it's part of it's learning, but but also providing that sense of community where it doesn't matter what your initial shot looks like, it it is a learning process, you're not gonna be an expert to start with, and and if we can help you in that learning, if we can help you to grow, then we'll be more than happy.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

And I think if I got told one thing however many years ago, shoot for yourself, don't shoot for uh print or Instagram or likes or whatever, is just go out and shoot for you, then your story is gonna be a way better story, and I think that that's the message is just find like originally I've I've been involved in landscape photography then through through In Focus Women, but this is all genres, and so I feel like we've got this ability to do that, shoot what you want.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

A very famous woman photographer that we spoke to only a few days ago on uh on a Zoom basically said that like don't don't shoot for what you think other people are going to like. Like, you know, trust what's in your heart, trust what makes your heart sing, and shoot that. And that's hard to do because everybody's after Instagram likes or you know, so ordered.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I suddenly have a whole lot of extra seagulls in my wheel from wandering around Melbourne on the weekend after that call and I'm now trying to physically find magpies. I did cook a burrows. There you go. Um shoot what's in your back garden. Shoot, shoot what you love and and don't and and and don't shoot for anybody else, shoot for you. Unless you're being paid to shoot. Different, but that's a very different story where you have to shoot what you get told. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

So your decision to showcase women in photography feels very timely and intentional and oh why was it important to create a platform dedicated to female photographers?

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Because there isn't one. Simple. I mean there's there's lots of hubs on Instagram or there's Facebook or you could probably find a uh an internet site where you could come together and and have chats, but there's there's nothing quite like this which celebrates all genres of female photography, both film and digital and and um all over the world. It's unbelievable that nothing's been done. Yeah. And and what better way to do it? I mean, it's it's a it's a platform that will be available to everybody. Um and and anyone that picks up a camera will will hopefully be inspired.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

And we're wide open, we're not limited to any genre. We we we're not brilliant at all of them, we're not probably brilliant at our favourite. We're not brilliant, full stop. But but you know, we we love looking at, I mean, at the moment we're sort of like, oh, we're gonna go into the city this week. It's rain's forecast, and we're not good at street. We're gonna go in and we're gonna get reflections and we're gonna get rain, and we're inspired by other photographers' work, and I'm gonna share the film.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah, I'm obsessed with the film, so there you go.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Yeah, I don't know whether I I suppose it is timely, but as Serena said, there are hubs out there already. So there's already an awareness that women want a hub and they want an area and they want a place for themselves. This allows them to not only be inspired by our future artists, but also to be part of it, like to submit photographs, to be, you know, to be part of the community and to and to to actually be showcased themselves.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

So that's an interesting sort of segue into the next question. What misconceptions or biases have you encountered in the industry that this publication hopes to challenge?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

So really interesting. So, I mean, it it's funny. Again, we were we were talking about this.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Um hey lady, can I help you set up that camera?

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Yeah, what do do you know? Do you know what you're doing, or can I show you what to do? Or what's in your bag? That's wow, that's interesting. Or um most of the major companies and most of the major publications and most of everything is is is the decision makers are all men, most of the groups are run by men, most of the camera clubs are run by men, like most of the tours are run by men. I mean that's slowly changing, but it's it the decision makers seem to be mostly men, and the ability to to learn and be, I suppose, as a female shooter is the gear, equipment, like or backpacks. I mean, we're just talking about backpacks, but cameras. I mean, if you're gonna go and shoot with a medium format, which we both shoot with, um the the camera grips are big, I've got a small hand, you know, just like camera gear is designed for men, ergonomically, it's not for women. So everything everything is designed for 50% of the population. So we want to change that, that just balance that out a little and and give us a voice.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

I think that's an interesting take because you know, coming and working with the both of you on this project and being a man myself, I think the other side of that is it's really nice to be coming in and being led by two incredibly adept and strong and intelligent women who are teaching me new things that I didn't know about photography and perspectives, and I I think that's really something special to be part of. Thank you for that. I think on the lighter side, um based on some of the things you've just sort of mentioned yourself, Garel, about what people have said to you, what are what's some of the most hilarious, incorrect assumptions that people have that someone that's made about you because you're a female photographer?

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Is it us or is it women in general? Like we we climb mountains, we put ourselves in in positions where we're incredibly uncomfortable. We hang off the side of clips.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

You hang off the side of cliffs. I don't hang off the side of anything. But you do as long as you look over the edge.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

But we you know we carry 12-15 kilo backpacks. We did a month last year overseas and in a camper in the middle of winter in in Italy and Slovenia when we used to. That was shooting every day whenever you like, it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

I think it's funny because I've lost you know, we've both had cameras gone through waves crashing and we've been washed off rocks, which is not ideal, uh, and safety first, please. Um and and you know, I don't I think the misconception is that A, women can't carry it or B women can't climb it, or C women can't fly it, women's pretty shorts. Yeah, and we we yeah, we we take pretty emotional shots. Um pink, it's definitely my main colour. Um and so I feel like um that is stereotypes that need to be broken down. Um I mean, the do you know what you're doing and can I help you with that? And and and I I mean I distinctly remember um someone coming up and literally opening my camera bag and pulling out stuff, going, what what's in here? Um and it's like that's I'm not going up to your bag, and you you know, like that's my and so just that whole kind of thing is just you wouldn't a man wouldn't go up to another man and open up his camera bag and start rifling through it, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, I think there's we're not giggly girls taking pretty shorts.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Well, we giggle. Squeal.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Squeal. It's not the same. Yeah. That's probably not so women's lip though. The squeal.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

You can smash one stereotype about women behind the lens, which one is first in mind. We do it better than you.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Because we do it better.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Yeah, because we do it better. Um that we can I mean that we can do it, and that we are better just as good, and I would tend to think that we're better. Um just because we see it so differently, and I think also because of what Gail said earlier is that we want our community to shine. So if you're in a very competitive, hostile, not necessarily hostile, and I don't I'm not and I'm not painting all men to be hostile photographers, I know some absolutely beautiful, lovely, helpful male photographers, so this is not a generalist comment. But if you're in an environment that is not that is is not competitive within an inch of its life, and you want your person or your group to shine and everyone get amazing work, then I think everyone's gonna get better work than if you're all off trying to fight each other for the best spot to get the best photo to do the best thing and not collaborate. I I just don't think you're gonna get your best work. So I feel like that's already going to produce collaboratively better work.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Okay. So let's explore a little bit of your own creative world. How would each of you describe your photographic style or unique artistic lens? Might start with you on this one, okay?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

I think my photography's changed a lot. Having met Serena, I realised, I didn't realise at the time, but you said something recently about how you're how you were addicted to panos, and I don't think I had at all been focused on panos until I met Serena, and then I realised, well, it was also changing cameras, which also like opened up a whole other world, but we won't go there at this stage. But I I I I think I saw myself as a landscape photographer. I've moved towards long exposures because I really like slowing everything down. I like I like the the water to be smooth and I like whatever building or you know structure to be sharp, and and that means you obviously don't want wind, and that's what I absolutely love. But if you can do that on a panel, so it's this beautiful piece that I absolutely like love that. Um and I started to get really interested in architecture because I like water, I like lines and I like things to line up and I like things to be synchronized, and architecture gives you the opportunity to do that, but like I'm a landscape photographer, that's what makes my heart sing, and I am interested in other genres, but I would like to think that I could become a little bit of a generalist, but at this stage very, very much a landscape photographer.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

And Serena, your photographic style or artistic lens?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Wow, I probably would have said that I was the same as Gail. I'm I am Oh my god, how could you? I know. I how many drones do you I know this is my thing. I love film. I love drones. Yes, so I I am a I my my heart does lie in in a panel for sure. Um I love film. Uh I'm a bit addicted to old film cameras at the moment, which is a a problem. Um but I I love the the slow nature of film. Digital is perfect, digital is you can take a hundred shots and one of them will be good, but with film you really have one or two shots, so you know it's where photography came from. And it is it's literally just yeah, the light on a you know, and and so the the slow nature of film is just beautiful, but film and some of the cameras that I'm using with film at the moment lend its life or to street or or architecture or black and white or so I just don't feel like I have uh a place at the moment. Uh I'm fluid and experimental and transitioning in my version of what I want to be or what I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Um but my heart is definitely with landscape. I'm I'm not A sports or a wildlife or a portrait photographer. Have we tried wildlife? Well, I haven't, but well, I'm not great. And so, yeah, I mean a long exposure landscape panel will make me squeal. Yes, it will make my heart squeal and sing.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

So I'm assuming you've both been photographing for quite some time. At what point did you kind of cross over from an interest, a hobby, and realize that photography was more than a hobby for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I came out of the womb with a camera in my hand, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

I did photography in my twenties. Yeah. And I I went to um an art school in Auckland and I learned black and white photography. And I used to hope the company I'm used to, I was working for at the time wasn't listening, but I used to sneak off every Wednesday afternoon. And we would take photographs and then we would go back to the art school to the dark room and we would develop our black and white photos, and it was predominantly people, parks, like vehicles. It was quite crazy, it was, it was very, very, very varied. Um and then I started a career, and like it just it involved travelling constantly, and I did that for most of my adult life until I realized that about 2020, so not that long ago, it was like no, I'm enjoying the photography much more than I'm enjoying working. And then it's been a it just takes a every trip, is it might have been a business trip, but what can I take on to the end of it? What location can I go to? What amazing place can I see? And I travel to the states and to the UK every year, so it's very easy to tack trips onto those, which I have been doing for a number of years.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, I guess a bit similar. I I did photography for the HSC, I I did black and white, had the dark room at I was a boarder at school, so I had dark room, so I was in there all the time. Then I podted off to uni and started working as a lawyer and sort of forgot photography. I always had a camera, um, and then as soon as you got a phone, you always had a camera in your phone, albeit back then they weren't so fantastic. Then I actually got given a drone for Christmas and I would fly that and was fairly obsessed. I think it was the Mavic 1, so it was it was a while ago, and then uh I caught up with an old friend, and I had a drone and a almost a point and shoot, uh, and then came back from that trip. I think I got the Sony A7R1 way back when, and that was my first landscape camera, and that was the addiction started. I was down at Coogee. If anyone knows Sydney, they were Bronte and Coogie and Bondi, but down at the beach with an incredible sunrise, and that was the end. I mean, that was that was just like soul uh cleansing and and the start, but um I definitely have a a drone bend. If anyone knows my work, a drone is quite prominent in that. But yeah, so I've always shot, uh always documented through film and yeah, now it's slightly more than an obsession.

SPEAKER_04 25:27

So a lot of experience there between the two of you. Based on that, what's something that you think photographers overcomplicate and something that they should take a lot more seriously?

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Can I do the more seriously?

SPEAKER_04 25:40

I think you can do both if you want.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Oh, like the more seriously. How many people don't know their camera?

unknown 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Like that shocks me. Like, turn it on, change the ISO, change the F-stop. Oh my god, like being able to shoot in the dark, know where things are on your camera. I mean, this is an expensive piece of material that you've bought and you obviously love it, and people spend a lot of money on their gear, and it shocks me that people can't use them. Okay, that's my little high wheel. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

We're just gonna get her off that for a second. No, I would agree with that, but I mean, overcomplicate, I'm the queen of overcomplicating things with equipment. Um, if it's new, I'll I'll get it. If it's available, I'll get it and I'll try it in this. Well, it is from the perspective of my favourite thing at the moment. It's the most simple film camera that's got no bells and whistles at all, and there's no automat automation, there's no no light meter, there's no nothing, and and so overcomplicating it has gone completely. Um back to just the joy of of shooting shooting light. So I think for me it's about um it's just that slowing down, it's that you know, instead of taking a thousand shots, which you might get, you know, some amazing shots, and and I still do that when I when I go flow, um, but it's just that don't overcomplicate it by just slowing down and enjoying the process of it as well as doing it, but sometimes it's also just stop and and look. And the other thing, I know this is not an advice session, it's not behind you, we're both gonna say it, is everyone is looking that way, turn around, there's often more beautiful light behind you, and and something that is different, but we we we go on and on about that, but yeah, don't overcomplicate it.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

So if your photography personalities were a TV character, who would they be?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Goodness. If my photography was a TV character, it would be someone with lots of personalities. Go-go gadget slash um uh what's a TV character?

SPEAKER_03 28:04

What was it? Old cartoon, Mr. Gadget. Yeah, everything.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, the go-go gadget. Um it would be someone with a lot of personalities, I'm trying to think, or Doctor Who that would go into a TARDIS and pop out um at a new at a new place with a new thing, looking at something new, trying to do something new. I'd probably say Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Oh, you gave no warning on this one. I I'd probably be a little bit a step back. Like when we go to locations they laugh at me because we'll tune up and I just I just go off, like I just wander off. Because I like I like to you're probably like David Attenborough or someone going adventuring. I I don't I like to get the iconic shot, but I would rather find the road less travelled. I'd rather find the shot that no one else has got, and I'm gonna be so proud of it because I found that cop or I found that light or I found that that something a little bit different. So I don't know whether there's a TV character that fits that. Yeah, I'm not sure. No.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

I think if I was gonna put myself in this sort of picture and role as well, I think my creative character in this, if I was a TV person, it would have to be Chandler from Friends. I think I'm the one that tries to see the humour in everything.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Yes, that would I would say that would feel you quite well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Seeing as a partnership is gonna be at the centre of this publication, how do your individual styles complement or challenge each other?

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Wow, well, I think whether I and this is and there's this there's a there's we travelled last year we travelled in a together for a month shooting, and we would sit at night, because that's what you do when you go on a photography trip for a month in a camper van with a glass of wine or a or a rattler, um, and we would be facing a like each other, but so our computers were and we had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Each of us thinking we got the shot.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah, and neither of us had discussed what we were doing. Neither of us had to discuss we'd talk about things as we walked around, but and then we would go, okay, let's look, and we would literally be editing the same shot from the same spot that neither of us had discussed.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

And we might have been in that spot for a couple of hours as the light changed, as locations changed, as we moved around, and you know, got low, got high, did panos, did zooms, flew drones. So the likelihood that that would happen and we would come back. Happened a lot. The one thing that, you know, it from the same chute, we would find that the same, the same shot, or very, very similar, made was the one we wanted to edit.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Or we would during that period, like if we were at a location, one of us would go over to the other one and go, Oh, there's a great shot over there, like this, and then the other person would pull their camera out and go, what, you like this, and they would be very similar. And and so we found again, it's there's definitely not a competition between us, and and and I I totally agree with what Gail said earlier, that I think the more that she shined is is better. Like I think if if she's getting good shots, then that's fantastic. But it also generally means that I'm getting good shots as well because we we're very similar in our in our style. But I think that's really complementary to how we also think about this publication and this community and what we're trying to build for um how yeah, how we shoot, but how we see the benefit of that for the yeah, trying to get other people.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah, there's no ego or selfishness in it. Like whatever I know, I pass on, like whatever we learn, but we end up getting on a we were we were looking at something the other day, you opened a photo and we were on a zoom, and I was like, do this, because I just something I just got off good, and she's like, shit. Like she does like bossing me around when it comes to editing. We do it the other way around as well, it works both ways, but it's like try this and how about that? And I was like, and then do this. It's like and and it was like five minutes, and we went from a shop that you probably wouldn't have looked at ever to a shop that's like right, I'm posting that tomorrow. I think I did post it. You did from Venice.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Venice was amazing. I mean, we we are and I don't for a minute um try to say that we are incredibly privileged to be able to do what we have done to date together and with friends and and family, um, go on trips, go to amazing locations, shoot and we work hard, I know we do, but we do, but I'm just saying we are incredibly privileged to be able to do that. And I mean it's again it's through our hard work that we've been able to, but um we we've yeah, we feel like we've got that story to tell and to I'm not sure that makes sense, but yeah, no, it does. I hope it does.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

We're not supporting brands, no, no, we can't be, and you do spend a lot of time in your own backyard, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Taking pictures and capturing your surrounds, so it's and again that very talented photographer that we were talking to last week, said no, look at your own backyard.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, probably what made us realise that we probably don't do enough of that, like totally made I I I now am inspired to shoot Sydney again because I have been so not wanting to shoot Sydney and so uninspired to shoot Sydney. Uh, and yet we live in one of the most beautiful cities of the world, yeah, and and we have quite a lot of the most incredible flora and fauna in the world. So I'm gonna go find a magpie, and you're gonna shoot a kookabur and a kangaroo and a wombat. I really do want to shoot a wombat though.

SPEAKER_04 33:53

So so I think Simon and I are really keen to understand the answer to this this question. Oh who's the chaos engine and who's the organised power?

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Oh my god, you already know that. No, I think it's changing.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Oh, do you think?

SPEAKER_04 34:07

I don't think we can. Everyone has their own perspective, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 34:10

I think I have a feature which says chaos factories. Um I have been known to to bring chaos to to things that I do on a minute-to-minute basis, not even a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

And you have a tendency to be slightly more organised than I incorporate for my whole career. It's like you know, you learn systems and you learn order.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And I I I I'm often for 25 years, so you I have to have some form of organisational skills, marginal, awesome. I'm chaos, she is organised.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

But we compliment each other, and I'm probably a bit chaotic at times, and you are very organised. But let's just say it works for us.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

So when when creative disagreements arise, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Oh, they don't.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Are we sure of that?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Well, I haven't yet. Not yet. Well, have they? I'm trying to think. Do you have an example of whether that's?

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Have you seen something with us? Simon. I was just going to ask how do you navigate them constructively by you're obviously very mature and you don't have to go there.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

We don't advocate drinking, but we would probably sit down with a bottle of wine and and nut it out. I think we've got really good communication.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

But I think that whole thing that we're talking about, that whole empowering woman, like we're both allowed an opinion, doesn't have to be the same. But it it doesn't have to be one person's right and the other's wrong. It's we could start marriage counselling based on our photography. We did the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

We have slightly live together.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Well we have, I mean, this is the we've we've lived in each other's pockets for a month, literally, in a motorhome and not had a fight. So we've got we're good.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

I'm curious who's gonna be able to keep his hands into three words. If you each had to describe each other's work in three words, what would they be?

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Inspirational. Aye, that's my work for you! That's not fair. She let her go first. Adventurous? Yeah. Okay. Sophisticated. Oh wow, that big.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Because I like your film style. Oh my film, like your sort of like my sophisticated film. That sort of black and whitey noara thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

I would have um had my word, but I sold it. I did. So inspiring. I would have actually um I would have used the word honest for your for your work. Um I I I'm trying to find that into three words, inspirational, because you've inspired me since the first day that I met you. Um honest and is that in my editor? No, I think your work. I think in your work, and I'm I think storyteller.

SPEAKER_05 37:17

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, I think I mean light captured, there are lots more words, like your ability to capture the light is incredible, and that's I I love that. But yeah, honest, inspirational, and storyteller. Oh, I like those. Okay, that's a bit of a love feast, actually.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Yeah. Let's talk about building and shaping landslide life, um, the creation itself. What types of stories, themes, or visual styles are you most excited to share in these earlier issues? What's really firing your belly at this point?

SPEAKER_02 37:53

I'm gonna go because I've thought about this of what I was looking forward to the most. And for me personally, who've who has had the opportunity of speaking to a lot of amazing landscape photographers, it is about learning other genres. Um, it's about trying to be inspired to shoot other genres and trying to understand the story behind that. I can easily see a story, and I just mentioned that Gael was a great storyteller. Um, I can easily find the story or understand a story in a landscape shot, and even in some degree to an architect or a street shot, and street's quite easy to see the story, it's usually got people in it, but um for me it's about the story behind the wildlife, or the portraiture, or the macro, or the travel, or the the story behind ICM, or something like that. So it's I think for me it's about being inspired by those incredible people that I'm excited about the most.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Yeah, it's for us it's gonna be a huge learning process as well. I mean the fact that we're inspiring women and that we're engaging them and that we're empowering them, I think we're gonna get the same benefits that they get because we'll be you know we'll be featuring artists who are just stunning in their genre and they know so much that we don't know that I mean that we will learn. I I I like that because photography is I think an ongoing learning process.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

You you never know all there is to know, and if we move outside of landscape and you know film street, which is interesting us at the moment, there's so much to learn, and so many amazing people who are you know who are willing to help us improve what we're doing, and there can only be an improvement at the moment at the moment, but also the the actual upskilling of doing the magazine, like we're now in front of the camera, and we're I mean I've I've done a podcast, but where um and there was a lot of skills involved in learning that, but there's the video editing of this, and there's there's the actual production side of it, which we've we know we've got help with with you guys, but um it's about learning that as well, and what so it's it's there's a whole lot of new skill set and new business acumen and a whole lot of new things that we're also upskilling on in getting from behind the camera to to doing it, and so that in itself is also a journey that I'm excited about because I've been watching YouTube videos on how to do a video as opposed to how to do a something on a camera or an editing, which is again a whole new skill set, which is exciting.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Interviewing and writing articles and journalism, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

It's like I feel like a journalist, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Yeah, I mean you spoke about community and you've just talked about you know featuring photographers and learning and all that kind of perspective of creating the the publication. Um you know, clearly some of the photographers that you're reaching out to and wanting to showcase you are familiar with their work and you know that um I'd imagine there's going to be recent renovations that you're gonna want to bring into it in discovering new photographers and showcasing them. What sort of creative process do you go through or would you like to go through and what do you look for in these photographers that you're going to feature in this life life?

SPEAKER_02 41:33

You know what? It's jump over Gail, which I often do. Um it is so much of a gut feel. Like if I and it's and photography is so subjective. Um what what Gail likes is often what I like, and vice versa, but Gail likes stuff that I look at sometimes and I go, wow, and I'm sure she looks at stuff that I go, wow, same sort of thing. You just look at something and you know that there is something special. You flip through a magazine or you flip through Instagram or 500px or whatever the platform is that you're looking at, and uh a shop that speaks to me is not going to speak to the the five people sitting next to you on a plane or wherever you are, but it it you know and it's it's instant and and you just have a feel for it, it's gut feel in a gallery of an upcoming Lens Light Life artist, and we were looking at a piece of work of hers on the wall, and Serena bought it, and I couldn't because I couldn't stop crying.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

It was just like it overpowered me. Yeah, look, thinking about it now, you want to cry. And we had to walk, we we left, we walked down the road, Serena had already bought it, and it was like, oh my god, I just loved it. And we turned around and went back and I bought it as well, which sort of felt like but it was that that we feel it.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Yeah. It you you you you you feel it, you there's a connection with whatever it is that you're looking at, and and it's be the same with music. If you you've got a connection with a piece of music, if it's a classical piece, or some people like heavy metal or whatever everyone likes, you have a connection with it, and that's what we feel often the same, but often very different, and and so that is what we want people to feel when they open up the magazine and they they they scroll through it, is that they feel that that connection with it.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

What are the lens light and life components of the publication? Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Well, I love this because I just think it's the coolest thing ever. It's the bee's knees. The duck's guts, so to speak. Um Lens is the celebration of lots of amazing photographers in lots of genres. So it's kind of the generalist feature to gallery. So if you walk into an art gallery, it's the opening section where there's lots of artists and you get to see lots of different things. Then we move into what we call light, or I like to call it, or we like to call it the Light Institute, which is where we're going to learn things. So it's like going into the classroom. So in the light section, we're going to have reviews on cameras, whether they be film or drone or phone or electronic or digital. There's going to actually be reviews of film, there's going to be reviews of equipment, there's going to be an event. Then there's going to be lessons on how to do something in Lightroom or through editing suites, or so it's where you become where you upskill yourself, or where you learn about a piece of equipment that you might not have seen or tried or that you might be interested in. Could be a new drone or a new handheld, whatever. So that's the Light Institute, and then we come to life, and that's where you go into the gallery. You've walked through the shop or the Light Institute or the school, you've gone through the beautiful gallery, and you come to the main feature, which is a person who we're featuring in whatever genre they might be, and it's a full-blown article on their journey, their story, their work for the absolute inspiration on how that incredible woman got to where she is and what her story to tell is. And that is the lens light life. We're covering it, we we feel like we're there's something for everyone, and I'm so excited. Did you want to add anything to that?

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Only the the lens part of it is where our subscribers and our readers get a chance to actually be part of the magazine in a digital format because obviously that's how we'll start, but who knows? Would be lovely to be on paper because who doesn't love to see beautiful photographs on paper? Um but also the opportunity to to evolve that into a competition because I think it we don't want it to be all about competitions, and that's definitely not why we're doing this. But who doesn't want to be celebrator? Who doesn't want to, you know, have people see beautiful art that they've taken and to you know and to be the lens light life photographer of the year or in in a genre? There's always the opportunity to sort of move into that as we as we progress as well. So I think the the lens part of it is is our community, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

And I'm gonna I'm gonna add to that as well, just because we would also love to, as we evolve, um look at exhibitions around of different things in different places, um not just seeing it digitally seeing it approved, but it's a good idea. Seeing it on a wall that have people, so it is like that gallery, um, which would be mind-blowing and amazing. So, again, all future endeavours that we've got lots of ideas around.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

I'm just gonna ask Simon, who's off camera at the moment, a question. As someone who's helping to produce this publication, is there a part of the creative process that's inspiring you most about Lens Light Life?

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Oh, I think certainly for me, because I'm in the middle of building our first issue, which is really, really exciting. Look, just having just such a wonderful collection of incredible photos, and having the opportunity as the person putting it all together and designing the layout of finding the balance and the light and colour and shade in those photos and seeing what balances and what works with it. That's fun for me. I've had a lot of fun moving things around and trying different you know arrangements. Um on a personal level, for me it's just a really wonderful thing to be supporting incredible women and just empowering female photographers. I think it's just such a wonderful platform, and I'm really humbled to be part of it.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

I think we all want to see something special come out of this, and that kind of takes us to the impact in the future. I mean, looking ahead, where do you see Lens Light Life in a year or in five years?

SPEAKER_03 48:22

I think we might be flying to interview those people instead of jumping on Zoom so we'll be able to do that. Well, these amazing.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Um again, I've got two daughters. Um I think about putting cameras in the hands of young girls in all walks of life and and letting them tell their story through through a through the lens. Um or the the newly you know the new person who's just picked up a camera or a drone or they've got a I mean a phone these days takes incredible photos. So just being inspired to to shoot I think is amazing and I would love for us to have a part in that.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

And I think we're both patient people and we're really good teachers. So I think there's the opportunity too to you know to take workshops and tours and actually you know hands-on help people to learn. I mean, not that I that would be a a nice to have, but you know, I I did Taekwondo for many years and ended up being a second-damn black belt, and I had kids that I'd taught, women, and you know, girls who grew up to be women, who became black belts, who kept coming, you know, who would come up to me and thank me because I told them when they were little that they could do whatever they liked, and they you know if they came up through the grades. I think we can do that for female photographers, empower them, encourage them, help them to learn, and then celebrate their successes.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

So maybe you've answered the next question, but I'll give you the opportunity to add anything further. From a legacy perspective, what do you hope the publication leaves for emerging female photography?

SPEAKER_02 50:11

A platform to have a voice, definitely, um, to be celebrated, and I know I've said that word a lot, but it's so true, um, and and a voice to be seen, and uh hopefully, you know, hopefully we have eventually got editors from magazines and publications around the world who could pick up, who could see people's work and go, okay, I want that in my publication, or I want that in my gallery, or I want that skill, or I want, you know, all of those sorts of things. Um so it's a it's a it's a voice and a platform and an inspiration to either our generation or the next generation of of female photographers.

SPEAKER_03 50:57

And not just in relation to our magazine either. I mean like judges and competitions, you know, like more senior positions and different roles in photography, I think globally. I think women need to be better represented, and if we can help that, that would be fantastic. Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

And if all limits disappeared, this is a fun one. Budget, geography, physics. What is the dream photo feature or photo shoot you'd love to create?

SPEAKER_02 51:24

I want a polar bear under the northern eyes.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

This this is with shop film. So the polar bear has to stay still, and not the lines have to be, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

I it's I mean I I want to go to Svar Bug, so that's not we've got a huge list though. Yeah, it's a very long list. I need to go to Canada. Um, I need to go to Scotland, I need to get a magpie. You can do that with your back garden. I know, so I need to spend some more time on the back garden. But on you next year, so that'll be exciting.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

So I um but then we're doing stuff at home, like you know, we're gonna go down to Victoria. Yeah, and you know, we love that whole area around Brighton. So grown around Lake Terrell.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Yeah, so yeah, oh lake, yeah. The there's it the the bucket list is forever, but my my absolute the polar bear the polar bear and the swabart and the northern lights.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

I I did the um grizzly bear out of hibernation in Alaska in May of last year. Not the same. And when they said there was an enclosure and you'd be safe, they were bloody joking. There were like logs around us and the bears were all around us. Polar bear. Yeah, polar bear.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

I think that's you know, there's obviously a lot of potential and amazing things about the publication itself. I think my part of wanting to be involved in part of this publication, I think, you know, in the future impact I want is that people don't lose value in the appreciation of taking a photo as an art form as opposed to the gratification and instant selfies and things like that. I think there's a lot of social media exposure in young kids these days, and I think it's really important for them to appreciate the beauty and the art behind it as opposed to that kind of instant self-before. So I think that's what I get, and again, I I reiterate with the platform aspect of it as well. I just think that's something that's really important. It's always good to have multiple perspectives in the world. Let's move on to fun and expected questions here. I thought we were done. I thought we were done too. Cheers. So we're gonna take turns and asking first so that way we can shuffle this one off. Gail, what's your most outrageous? I can't believe I did that for a shot story.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Oh my god. So I was um shooting at the Narrowbean bars when the surf was crazy high with a really close friend, um Carmel, and she's a real risk taker, but she she has this camera that has an amazing lens, so she can take you know wide and long. And I ran out with my hasn't felt beautiful camera that I love dearly onto the start of the ramp, and the waves were huge, and I got this amazing shot of this huge wave, and then realized that it was so big, no bad words, and so fast that I was in trouble. And I started running. If anybody's been to Narrambean Paul's, there's a ramp, and then it sort of ducks down where all the water runs into the lagoon, and that's where it hit me, and it just took my feet out from under me. And as any good photographer will tell you, my tripod was above my head, it bounced, and the edge of it hit the rock, and I kept it above my head. And Carmel was yelling at me, just stay down, stay down. If you stand up, you can it's like I could see the rest of the wave coming, and I crawled out of that gap. It was the middle of winter, I was completely drenched, my camera gear was drenched, it was freezing cold, it was a crazy, crazy storm, and I had to drive home wrapped in a blanket. Unfortunately, everything survived, but yeah, like that that one now you have a change of clothes in your car. Now I what I learned from that is always travel with a change of clothes and two towels. Yes. But I've done it many times since, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:16

Serena.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

What was the question?

SPEAKER_04 55:18

What's the most outrageous? I can't believe I did that for a shot story.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Oh well, I found myself in stupid spots. I'm not great with heights, so understatement. Yes, yes. Um, and so getting anywhere near a cliff for a shot for me is is is definitely one of those, but I would probably say Chinquetera when when um The Lover's Mile? Yes, where I There was no Lover's Mile involved from the I I cried for the 400-500 metre walk that it was um under Gail's armpit trying to We could demonstrate the position that we had to adopt a walk. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

I'm tempted to ask.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

I actually don't think I've got a good job because I didn't get my camera out. The other the other probably the similar sort of thing is is being knocked off a wave in various locations, Kayama or Ivor Row, Rock Pool, just Nick Kudji, or where you've actually been completely wiped out, lost a few cameras. Um it's mostly around wave action that you didn't see coming when you when you when you go to a rock ledge or rock pool or you you tend to stay back and you watch the waves to s to be sure that what you're doing is safe and and obviously advocating at all times that you do be safe. Um rogue waves come and you least expect them, and we've both been completely sideswiped or lost in in the water because of it. So I guess good insurance. Yeah. Um and always have a change of clothing. Something you're doing these days? Yes, too, I am. Not least from my dogs jumping into the water and harder.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

So I think I I time this off because I think I want to ask you this question first. Right. What's in your camera bag that absolutely shouldn't be?

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Oh, see? I think there's nothing because but I carries seem to carry so much that um probably lots. Um I overdo lenses, which I is silly, but I also overtake uh cameras. So if I'm going on a shoot, I'll have three or four film cameras with me that inevitably don't get used. Yeah, there's I need to carry sunscreen and bug spray more than what I do. But uh what's in my camera bag that I don't need? I think nothing. We get it back.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

Like when you travel overseas, you realise you don't want to carry anything you don't need. And and we and we've also played around with, you know, well I'm on that for wide angle. We we might carry more than one camera, body, and lenses, we sort of play around with it, but I think travelling really makes you sensible about what you take. And who's travelling with you?

SPEAKER_02 58:09

If my partner's coming, I'm like as well. So it depends on who's coming. But we've also because we often travel together and shoot together, we'll we also shoot with the same camera, but we also shoot with the same second camera. So we sort of shared stuff as well. Um we're very logical and we probably aren't silly because they weigh so much. But then I usually do have an extra bag full of film gear, which is a pain.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Um and if we're shooting locally and you can leave it in the car and grab it. Same with the drones, like we don't take that out to start with.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

I tell you what, I what I think is a waste of time is a tripod. I so don't use my tripod.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

It's very hard to do a long exposure.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

I I I find that I use my tripod if I go on a two or three hour shoot, I will use it for 10 or 15 minutes and then after that I'm carrying it everywhere and it's a pain in the backside. But it is also a very good weapon in the dark with sharp tripod head. Um so for women it's a very good thing to carry around with.

SPEAKER_04 59:19

If you have to live with one lens forever.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

Oh, that's easy. That's a big one. Would you say 1635? Oh, 20 to 35. Well, 20 to 35, but on the old ones. Yeah, so yeah, six to thirty five. It's our favourite lens.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

So no emotional stars for leaving other cameras behind. No, apparently not.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

Although they're still in my bag. Yeah, we carry them. I still own them, I haven't sold them.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Traditionally on a so we shoot medium format, um, so that's a 20 to 35, but it's sort of a 16 to 35, 16 to 30 on a 35mm. Um it's beautiful. It's yeah, it's that's the lens. It's it's it's beautiful. The detail, the crispness, though. The cat's beautiful. It's better than our children. No, we're joking. We're joking, we love our children more than the lens.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

If lens light life had a mascot, what creature would it be? I'm assuming potentially something water-based given the wave incidence that you've spoken about. On the water. On the water, like on the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Polar bear. They're slow and it's almost extinct. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

You're chaos, you can't be, you're more like uh mine's a ladybike at the moment, but that's because I've had 10 million of them attack me recently. No, um I haven't had one. Um an a mascot for lens light life. Goodness. We're not wombats. Not a schnauzer. Um no. Chaos. Chaos schnauzer before. I don't know. I actually genuinely don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

Water animal? We're sort of likable, but we can be a bit titchy. I expect to be treated well.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

I'm gonna say it like I know what we like, and I I know I also have we're not like a poodle. No, I'm gonna say like a stingray. Oh beautiful dancing through the water, but if you yeah, we'll sting you. Look out.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Oh, it's a bit it's a good one, isn't it? Could we be like a dolphin? Dolphin have it? Well, no, they're two.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Yeah, they're a bit too bit more controversial.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Yeah, there's a bit more controversial about dolphins.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

Look, I just want to say thank you to you both. You've really opened up and shared some amazing things about what you're creating here and your inspiration behind us. It's been hilarious, it's been hardfelt. Um before we wrap, is there anything you wish people asked more often about your work or your purpose?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

People don't ask. They don't, do they?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Um occasionally you do, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:04

We had fires over the weekend up in Hawke's Nest, like really bad fires. And at one point they were coming straight at us, and and there was a you know, evacuate morning in the local area on Saturday. And I put photos up and it was a panne, like a a long panne, of this really dark, threatening space. And I put a story and and quite a you know, like multiple paragraph story just about like it's devastating, not just for us because it was scary, but like the animals that are just recovering from the last huge fires that we had that wiped out most of the koala population. And you put that people don't read, yeah, they just go, Wow, amazing! Great shop! And it's like this is not pretty, this is a bushfire that is you know wiping out lives, and I it's so I I think people look, and it's it's it's it's Instagram, so I so I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

Does that come back to like m misunderstanding on or not appreciation appreciating the perspective that you're putting out there? I think it comes back.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

I think it comes back to giving women another format for showcasing their work. And I think that's what we'll do, you know, in that whole lens part when we can, you know capturing the story. The story is like life's not always lovely, and sometimes those fires come through and they can you know wipe out people and animals and destroy communities and that's not pretty. Yeah, I think it's real.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

I think it's the potentially I mean I love talking about gear, so if someone wants to ask me a question about what gear I'm using, I'll go to town. Um and I find that if I'm using film, people generally do ask, but that's usually often when I'm shooting it. Um Rollerflex, which is an amazing camera, um, you is a conversation startup, like literally you pull that out and everyone wants to talk to you about it. Um I guess it's a if someone ever wanted to ask why a particular shop or the story behind it, or um, yeah, I don't know, people don't. I don't think people stop and if if you're talking about Instagram, you sort of flick like, flick light, flick like you don't stop enough on it. I don't think we do. Uh so I think it would be trying to encourage people to actually connect with the work that is in the magazine that does appeal to them. It won't appeal to that, so not every shot will appeal to everyone because uh photography again is very subjective, and we are not a landscape magazine, we are a multi-genre journalist magazine with lots of different um styles, and therefore I I just want people to question or ask themselves about something from it to connect to something in it, and I think that would be a great way of asking we've turned around.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

I think I'm gonna turn it around one more way um individually. What is one thing that you haven't spoken about today tonight that you want everyone out there to know about you in regards to the magazine, your photographic work, or just in general? Maybe for me it's honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

Yeah. Um we did, that we'll get emotional. We did honestly about what we want to do. Not for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

I just when the shot comes together, so when it is doing, and and it has actually happened shooting street or not necessarily landscape, but when you get behind the camera and you know you just know whether it is film or whether it is digital, that it just works. And you have a little Squeal or a loud squeal, and you go, I got to witness that, or I captured that, or and that is what I hope people can take, is either they get that from looking or reading or engaging with lens like life, or they're inspired to go and do that. In whether it's a macro fungi or fungi or fun girl, um, I know that's a bad joke. I've no one ever laughs, um, or whether it's a portrait or whatever it is, is that they are inspired to do it or engage with it, and that is what I do this for is to have that feeling of yes personally, that no one often gales there and hears the squeal, but I've been in places on my own and squealed, or other people have looked at me and s they've looked at me squealing, and that's the I uh you know, and I've got shots that I've squealed over that no one's ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

But taking that that's that's what we're encapsulating, but what what we're doing is enabling them to have thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

So I'm saying they're inheriting them, they are learning by looking at it, or they're being inspired to go and do it. Because I think that we will have uh people that like photography but that don't ever want to go and shoot like that, but will engage and relate to the shots in the magazine. So I think it's multifaceted around that, but um I just want them to engage and connect with something that they see in it and that is a win.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

It's very special. I think given that we're gonna be interviewing other photographers, we're gonna have to have a song. One of the two sayings. One is either chase the light or shoot yourself. Both? Can we not do both? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

You're gonna make it a cute little sample. Chase Chase the Light. I think chase the light, because it takes a degree of confidence to shoot yourself. I'll get to that, but chase the light to start with. So I think I'm reading a remote. Chase the light.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

I'm I'm I'm I'm confident. That's chase the light. That's um that's what we do, that's what we do.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:33

Thank you.