What Your Child Actually Needs Before Kindergarten

Starting kindergarten can feel like a huge milestone for both kids and parents. In this episode, Liz and Abby are joined by veteran kindergarten teacher Jennifer MacDonald to talk about what kindergarten readiness really means. Together, they explore the differences between kindergarten in Ontario and Florida, the social and emotional skills that matter most, common parent worries, toileting expectations, sleep and school success, and simple ways to help children feel confident heading into the classroom. Whether your child is starting school this fall or you're just beginning to think about it, this conversation offers practical tips, reassurance, and an inside look at what educators wish every parent knew. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello, welcome back to the things that no one told us. I'm Liz from Growing With Hope and Sleep Child of Mine. I'm a pediatric sleep consultant, former educator, and a mom.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

I'm Abby, owner of Sleep Child of Mine, a pediatric sleep consultant as well, and a full spectrum doula, which means that I support through labor and delivery as well as postpartum, and I'm a mom of three.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

And today we're joined by someone really special to me, my former teaching partner and longtime friend Jen McDonald. Jen and I taught together for years and spent so much time working with kindergarten age kids and families. And so welcome, Jen. We're very excited to have you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. So we thought that we would talk a little bit first about in general and kind of your experience about it. Can you tell us how many years you've worked in education and then specifically kindergarten?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, so I've been a teacher for 15 years now, and I actually started in kindergarten in the half-day program in Ontario. Um and I've been teaching in the full-day kindergarten program now for 10 years. No way. So it's been a journey. Yeah, 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah. 10 years feels like it's went by in.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, in the blink of an eye. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah. Well, that's pretty crazy. Can you tell me what you love? Tell us what you love about teaching kindergarten specifically. I'm assuming you love it because you're still there.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I do still love it. I do. Kindergarten is just a magical place where you see so much learning happen so authentically, and I think that's that's the greatest part about it. It's you know, those little minds are are so eager, and and yeah, just just all of that authentic learning that they do in in play. That's that's really important.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

That makes total sense. I love the age group for that specific reason as well. Yeah, I jokingly say to my clients now that the age of kinders is my jam because they're just so smart and so funny and so wild.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah, yeah. So just for everyone listening, Abby lives in Florida where she works as a full-spectrum doula and raises her family. I am just outside of Ottawa, Canada, and I travel primarily to the Tampa area. I do go elsewhere though, but I formerly taught kindergarten as an early childhood educator, so in a team setting in Ontario, and kindergarten in Ontario and kindergarten in Florida is a little bit different. So Abby would probably be the best person to describe this. Can you tell us, like since you have lived in Ontario, what the difference between kindergarten in Florida and Ontario is?

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yeah, for sure. So honestly, it's a massive difference. We hadn't really known about that until we moved here, and we were like, whoa, okay. So as things are. So basically, before you get to kindergarten, there's a year of VPK. And what that is, it's kindergarten prep. And it's not mandatory, but it's you know encouraged. The government gives a voucher for it, so they pay either for three days full-time or for the equivalent of five halftime days. So they give you like a lump sum, and the voucher gets sent to whatever program you decide to send your kid to helps pay for it. Basically, it starts and it's four kids in that are five turning six, like five that sorry, VPK is for four ages four turning five, and then kindergarten is for five turning six. So you are in kindergarten, which is with a uniform in a classroom, you're sitting at desks, it's very big kid, and that is when you're in your year five turning six. So the cutoff year, it's weird, it's September 1st. It means that if your birthday is before September 1st, or at September 1st, that determines what grade year that you're put into. In Canada, it's January 1st, which makes sense, right? Because January 1st is the beginning of the year. But September 1st is our cutoff. So basically, if you turn five at or before September 1st, you are in kindergarten. That's kindergarten. And so what they found is that kids are like a little bit more grown up when they start kindergarten. They're sitting at desks. Again, they're you know, turning six. They yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I have a question. That means that they're kind of it's kind of functioning like what we would assume a grade one classroom would here in Ontario. Yeah, like they're they're like academic-based learning and like worksheets and you know, yes, direct directedly taught things, my reading.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yes, in kindergarten. So like they're learning to read. My daughter just finished kindergarten, but we pushed her ahead a little bit just because her birthday's September 13th instead of September 1st, and we're like, okay, so she's already done VPK and she's done kindergarten, she's starting first grade in this August because our school year is a little wonky. Yeah, it's it's crazy. So she's starting first grade, she will turn six in first grade, but everyone else will already be six. So first grade starts when you are six, okay, turning seven. Yeah, so it's a very different age things going on than in Canada when you're in kindergarten. They're like circle time and all that, and kindergarten here is very like, yeah, you get like a graduation at the end of VPK going into kindergarten. So when you start kindergarten, you're like, oh, I'm a big kid, we're going to kindergarten, we're going to big kids' school.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah. Okay. Jen, do you want to explain a little bit about what it looks like in Ontario for us?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Very different. So it's definitely different. Yeah, definitely different. So in Ontario we have a full-day kindergarten that is play-based. Um, and students ages eight to six are in that classroom. So uh it's if they turn all three to six. They're all mixed together, yeah. So it's if you turn, yeah, together. So if you turn four by December, by December, like by January first, like December 31st of uh the year that you start school, then you start school. So there are children starting school in September who are three years old, three and a half, I guess, and sometimes they they won't turn four until they until December of that year. And then they're with children who will turn six in January of that year. So you could have a child turning four December 31st and a child turning six uh January 1st the next day in that classroom. Yeah, it's a huge age range, yeah. And there are definitely pros and cons to that, but yeah, the idea is that you have children in a developmental range that can then develop at their own pace. And there's the expectation is not that you're, you know, four years old and you can do this thing because you're four years old, but that you have the time to develop at your own pace. And it's a play-based program, so there's no like sitting in desks. We have tables, of course, so that they can, you know, sit and do things at a table if if they choose to, and but it's a very much a play-based program where they choose the activities that they're doing that that way they can jump in to an activity that is developmentally appropriate for them, right? They're gonna get the learning that they need in the moment that they need it.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Do you find that kids like feel like certain kids like feel like certain, hey, I'm not being stimulated in the right way enough because I'm a whole year older than like the babies in the class? Like, how do you manage that gap?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

So I think that's the beauty of this program, right? Is that because they have the choice in their activities, they know there isn't that I'm not being stimulated enough because they will choose the activity that's right for them. And that's the role of the teacher in the classroom, right? In the ACE is to ensure that um the that the activities there provide a range of entry points for the students depending on their developmental level.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Awesome, that makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah, and I remember like I know that sometimes you'll have children who need a little bit more structure or need a little bit of help kind of like settling on what they're going to do or what they're going to work on, and that's where the educators in the room really come in to be able to like identify that and kind of guide it. And like if you have we've I've had, you've had Jen, students that are vastly ahead from others, and you make sure that you're putting into the program activities and things that will stimulate them and help them, so it's a little bit more customized. The reality is you've got like 30 kids in one room, so you don't always have the wonderful time to sit down and go dive deep into things, but it it's certainly a different approach. It is a little bit insane, yeah, with that many kids in a room, and it what it doesn't take into account is the like various exceptionalities that you run across or come across. But like from uh from a big picture standpoint, I do really like the approach of full day kindergarten and like the play-based learning, like like everything else in this world. Uh A, it's politically driven, and B, it's nothing is perfect. So there's certainly there's certainly pros and cons to both of the different systems in my experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

I don't want to like dwell too much like on it, but it sounds like a Montessori style. When you look at Montessori kindergarten, kindergarten, it's they don't call it kindergarten, whatever. They it's literally ages three to six here. Yeah. And we looked at that for my daughter because of her like weird birthday, and I was like, she was sitting on the floor on the carpet waiting to be like led for story time or for circle time or for instruction, and everyone was out doing their own thing, and she just sat there and we're like, I don't know if Montessori's for us. But anyway, it's like the play-based situation.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

No, she also comes from a family of very structured learning. Yes. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's the way that your family functions. So for her to go into an environment where it's self-directed and like here's your freedom. She's gonna be like, What? It's not time for this, like yeah, it's hard on some kids. Yeah, yeah, and everyone does what they feel for their family, and very quickly uh acclimate to it, I find at least. Jen, would you agree?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, absolutely. And I was gonna say too, the focus in uh kindergarten classroom in Ontario is really that social emotional learning, yeah, and and getting them ready to be learners in in you know the school system in grades one to twelve and beyond that you know that have that those social emotional skills there ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah. So that kind of leads me into my next question. Jen, what do you think parents typically think kindergarten readiness actually is? Because what it actually is and what it they think it is in my experience is very different.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that a lot of the time ki parents think that the academic skills is that's the the be-all and end all, and not really taking into consideration a lot of the other really important things for being a learner. And yeah, so that the the academic skills is what we see them really worried about, right? Oh, my my child doesn't know how to read yet, or you know, at three years old, or my my child doesn't know all of their letters yet, or can't write their name yet. Those types of things can be really worrisome for parents, and those are the things that I I always reassure parents about that this is what we're doing. That's that's what we're doing now. Yeah. So those are those are the things that they don't need to worry about.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, I used to have I remember one time a parent during we do intakes in the fall, or we I used to do them. I remember one time a parent coming in and and being like next to tears because her four-year-old couldn't write her name and identify all of her letters and all of these things, and specifically in the Ontario system, like that's not a requirement for entry to school. It's it's it's something that is a developing skill at that age, and development. I talk with our clients all the time about how development is a spectrum, like you have kids who are early and some kids who are later, and there's nothing wrong with that, or you have some kids who are like off in left field doing their own thing, which again is also fine. But I do find that the Ontario system has a has a way of being able to accommodate that in a way that maybe like a sit down at a desk at four would be able to kind of allow for, I assume. So what actually matters the most for kids coming into school to you?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah, so it's that social emotional learning piece, which is again what we're working on all through those two years, also, and beyond, of course, but so it it's the you know, turn taking, it's being able to express their own needs in the beginning as well. Um, just the emotional regulation coming into the classroom, and then of course, independence too. Um, when a child feels independent and can do, you know, a few things on their own, again, skills that we're working on, but that helps them feel more confident in in the classroom when they can, you know, get their shoes on, get something out of their backpack, open their lunchbox when they don't need help with those things, even though we're there to provide the help if they need it. But it it does give them the confidence. So that independence and those social emotional stuff.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Yeah, that's that's actually like leading into what I was gonna ask next, honestly. So we were looking at like what are some simple daily tasks that parents don't realize are actually what they do need at school, and and what should kids ideally be able to do independently before they start school or when they're like at that place where they're starting.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, so the thing we tell parents all the time in our in our welcome meetings is we'll say, you know, being able to or being familiar with what your child is going to use on a day-to-day basis in the classroom, being familiar with how to open and close their backpack, being familiar with how to open and close their lunchbox, being able to put on their own shoes. We change our shoes a few times a day, being able to zip up a jacket, that kind of thing, it's tricky at three years old, right? They don't have those fine motor skills yet. If they can, great. If they can't, that's okay. But those are some things to work on, but also not to stress over too much, right? But having having worked at that and having the familiarity with it will take some of the stress off of their child in the first few days.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So I used to tell parents to make a game of it over the summer, to like, we're going on a picnic on the weekend, and I need you to help me pack your lunch, and I need you to help me clothe the containers. And like in fall, I usually would pull out this activity where I'd have a snowsuit and boots and everything that would go with it, which in Florida clearly you don't need, but in Ontario, we certainly do. But we would make a game of it, and like how fast can you get dressed? And not necessarily competing against each other, but like competing against yourself, and like can you put all the things on and then take them all off? And like even just the sequential order that it needs to go. So it can even be applied to like regular clothes dressing. Obviously, we're not getting kids naked in the middle of a classroom, but like just getting your for those cooler days, your sweater and your outside shoes or whatever, making anything a game for kids is a great way to to teach it and to apply it to sleep. It's the same. Like we playfully teach them what we want them to do, and then we hope that it kind of sticks a little bit. So that's always that's always great. Also, great opportunity to talk about a bit about like toileting because I know that recently Abby, you had mentioned earlier that there was a law or something passed. Can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah, so something passed in Florida, they're looking at passing it and like making it a thing that kids have to be able to like be fully toilet trained before they start VPK. So that would mean that they're three and a half or they're in their three, turning four. Like wipe everything on their own, and if not, like they would not be eligible. Yeah, it's so much pressure, I feel like. I mean, kids. And like, how are you gonna regulate that? And I get it, you know, they're worried about, you know, the teachers having to do all of that, and the average class is, you know, 20, 25 kids, uh, I don't know, somewhere between like 15 and 25 kids. If you're lucky, it's on the lower end, but you know, they're just like we can't, like, that's not something that should be our responsibility. And I feel like that's gonna put a lot of pressure on these parents who are like, shoot, like, if I can't get this done, what am I gonna do? Like, they need to go to school, like I need to I can't stay home, like I gotta go to work, you know, and and just so put so much pressure on their kids, it's not really like fair. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Do daycares at that age still have like pre-K rooms? Like, is there an alternative if they can't get their child toilet? Because three is really young to have a fully toilet trained kid. For some kids, it's a lot later. So is there an alternative for kids if that were to be the circumstance that they were required to kind of meet?

SPEAKER_03 18:56

No, like your age, like when you're that old, like you go to VPK. There's not like you're not like daycare again, like there's you go to pre-kindergarten. That's what you do. That's I mean, I don't know how they can regulate this, honestly. And I feel like governments, when an old man gets in charge and like makes a rule like that, it's like who's gonna enforce it? So I don't know who it's helping or what it's aimed to really do, but I think it's to get parents a little bit more involved in that process. I don't know, but I I think it's crazy. And lucky, you know, very luckily, like we don't have you know, that kind of we didn't have that issue, but not all kids, definitely not all kids are ready for that and they need help wiping, and like they're not, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

That was like a daily occurrence, especially in the fall, Jen, when we started the amount of like accidents are just part of the job when you teach kindergarten. It's like kids often it's their first time away from their parents ever for some kids. Uh and like I we've literally had students whose parents were like sending them through the door with their first, I guarantee you, their first day in underwear, being like, Okay, good luck.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

And like that I couldn't imagine. So, Jen, do you want to elaborate a little bit on what toileting expectations are for kids uh in our programs here?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, so in Ontario, there's there's no mandatory requirement for children to be toilet trained before school starts. One thing I I I don't know if we touched on Liz, but in Ontario as well, there's two educators in the classroom. There's a teacher who's an Ontario certified teacher, and there's an ACE uh in the classroom as well, an early childhood educator. You're good. Yeah, so the the roles of the the teacher and the ACE in the classroom are very similar in a lot of ways. There's there's very little distinction. You wouldn't know walking into a classroom which person was the teacher and which person was the early childhood educator, but the early childhood educator brings so much to the classroom uh in terms of that knowledge of of early childhood that a teacher doesn't necessarily have. And that's really important. And so when those kiddos come in uh at you know three years old and they may not be toilet trained yet, the there's always support for them. Of course, if it if it's something that um the parents just need support with, that's something also that as an early childhood educator who have often worked in daycares and things like that as well, have a lot of experience with as well and can provide support for parents in terms of things that they can try at home. And like Liz said, right, making everything a game and that sort of thing, that's the expertise that the early childhood educator really brings that's quite different from the teacher. And there are also, you know, I think it's Interesting with that law, it makes me wonder, and maybe there are exceptions for children with exceptionalities, but there are lots of students who come in, yeah. That where it's just not an expectation, right? I think the vast majority of the time, this is not parents at home that are just not trying, right? Right. Yeah, usually this this is no, I don't think that's ever been the case. No. Um, this is children who are just developmentally not ready for that uh that stage, and and that's fine. They're supported in our classrooms, and and then there's accidents that happen, you know. I mean, accidents happen with bully toilet trained children all the time. Um and that's that's completely, completely something that that is supported in our classrooms. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Especially in new environments, too. Like they're playing, they're engaged, they're with your friends, there's so many new and exciting things going on. The last thing in their brain is, oh, I need to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

So it's a very also like anxiety, you know, it's a different bathroom, and you don't think about that, but it makes a difference, you know. There's those kids who are like, Oh, I'm really anxious to pee anywhere that isn't like my regular toilet seat and my regular bathroom and my environment that I learned in. Like, that's a big yeah, people aren't honestly outraged and they're like, Wow, we are you're so out of touch with what reality looks like over here. You're just a big lawmaker up there. I don't know what's gonna come of it, but yeah, it's it's pretty crazy, and you know, also that ties into like that social emotional, you know, readiness and those emotionally sensitive kids or kids that are dealing with separation anxiety. Yeah so like maybe you can tell us like what are some positive ways that parents can talk about kindergarten without like overhyping it and making it this like anxiety-provoking, you know, new thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, absolutely. Um I I think that it, you know, talking about kindergarten is just sort of the next step, right? Um, this is the new school that you're going to and making it sort of part of their everyday routine. Like we often suggest to parents is during the summer coming in, uh coming to the school grounds, getting familiar with the school grounds. Of course, you can't go into the school, but yeah, outside, go play on the play structure. Make that a familiar place so that um they're already feeling comfortable there. If you're walking to school in the mornings, if you'll be walking to school, then you know, do that walk a few times during the summer to go play on the play structure. If you're taking the bus, then doing the the the bus uh they offer an orientation for the buses.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, the orientation. Thank you. You can go and they put on a day where you can like meet a bus driver and learn to sit down and whatever. A lot of schools will do like visiting days like that. Do they do that there, Abby?

SPEAKER_03 24:52

No. They have a back to school, they have like a day orientation. They do. And actually, when you're starting, oh I lied. When you're starting kindergarten before kindergarten, they have at my school, my kids' school, but not all schools, definitely not all schools, but where we're sending my daughter, they have kindergarten camp. So it's the week before you start, it's mornings from 9 till 12, and it's just getting to spend time meeting friends and getting to know the classroom because this is a new place for a lot of them. And also, you know, they see from that which where they should place them in terms of like kids with which kids, or like not too many kids with high energy, and you know, they spread them out. My kid will be starting first grade this year, so irrelevant. Yeah, but we had to say whatever long story. So we're starting it a little bit different, but she did kindergarten private in a private school because you can't start kindergarten early. You can say, Okay, we're skipping a grade, we're pushing them forward, but Florida does not allow kids to start kindergarten in the public school system early. So if you do want to start them early, then you have to do it privately. So we we sent her to private school this year.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

They don't let you do that in Ontario either, do they, Jen?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Oh, I don't know. No, you have to start with your age group, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and it it's very, very uncommon. Students students travel with their age group always in in Ontario.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah. Um, okay, so let's chat about what are some easy ways. I mean, obviously the things that we've already discussed, but like what are some things that parents can do to prep for like the exhaustion that comes with kindergarten in the fall? Do you do you have things that you usually share with parents? I know certainly we do, but what do you usually tell parents about that?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah. Sleep is the number one most important thing for for students in kindergarten. Students starting, especially in Ontario, we have the full-day program, and it's exhausting. There are little people in a new environment with a lot of other kids. There's a lot going on. It's exhausting for them. Yes. Um, often, you know, I we hear that kids go home and they've fallen asleep like right after getting home. They're they're they're exhausted. But those healthy sleep routines are so so important in kindergarten as always. Um, but I I think it's probably the number one thing that we tell parents that if you can do nothing else, make sure that they have healthy sleep routines so that they are coming to school, you know, ready and and in in the with the the most presenting their best selves.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The best sleep. I used to, when I when I taught with you and when I taught in general, I used to we used to do like quiet by myself time where we would have uh in the fall at least a third of our classroom, the kids would take a nap because they just couldn't make it through the day. This year, my daughter started kindergarten, and for the first half of the year, she only did half days. Because in Ontario, kindergarten is a voluntary program. You don't you're not legally required to send your kids to it. And half days seemed to do better. The first two weeks we sent her full days, and she was an emotional basket case by the time I picked her up and was not doing well socially. So we excuse me, I had the luxury of being able to reel that back in, given my job, and we sent her for half days. But those those like naps and those like quiet meditation times are good things to even practice before they get to school, so that they have the ability to kind of know how to rest and know how to unwind, and that goes to that social emotional self-reg piece as well. So that that piece was really great. Abby in VPK, do they do nap time?

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Yes, they do. VPK is a nap, and it's two hours, and the most common they're four, five, so long. They're five. Okay. So we have these kids that I get called about, that we get called about, going, I don't know what's going on. I used to put my kid down to bed at seven o'clock and no issue, and now it's 9:30, 10, and they're staring at the ceiling, and in the morning they're a mess, and then they nap for two hours, and I was like, You just told me why this is happening. Yeah, they're napping for two hours, but it's the policy, so there is you can't do anything about it. So I've like written letters for people like on behalf of like whatever to be like, I'm the authority, which is who am I, but whatever. And I was like, they do not please do not allow your this child to you know sleep more than 45 minutes because it is throwing everything else for a loop. Because they're like on the weekends, they don't nap at all, everything's easy, and then during the week, everything's a mess again. And I'm like, Yeah, because they're napping two hours, that's insane. But then everyone else is sleeping around them. So I was like, give them quiet activities, pull them out, but the teachers don't want to do that because that's their only break.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah, it's a little bit different in Ontario because our breaks are structured differently. But part of the reason, well, I remember, and tell me if I'm glorifying it in my head, Jen, but like we intentionally had quiet by myself time at a time where one of us was on lunch because we needed to be able to manage all 30 plus children independently. Um, and and like kids just like adults need breaks throughout their day, but two hours is wild. I know. Well, how old was your youngest, Jen, when he dropped his nap?

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Oh my. Yeah, he dropped his nap probably like two and a half, three years old, but then he was in daycare, and much like in Florida, the in daycare here, the naps are mandated, and so that that was definitely tricky. And what you're saying, my youngest definitely experienced that. Where I was like, this three-year-old doesn't go into bed until 9 30, 10 o'clock at night. Yeah, it's much different in in the kindergarten program, and it's not there's no mandatory nap time, but like Liz said, it it those kids also need a break, they're just a brain break. Yeah, and so our our quiet by myself time was just exactly that. It's a time to be quiet, to do something on your own. Kids had access to activities, and if they if they fell asleep or wanted to to sleep, then they could, but it certainly wasn't two hours or doing the what 20 minutes or something.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah, maybe not. Yeah, and we would have parents be like, please don't let that happen. And we would intentionally not let it happen. Um, because like in terms of sleep needs, I always want to take my lead from well, not in necessarily in this the role that I'm in now, but as a teacher or an educator, yeah, I would want to take my my cues from them if they're like don't let them sleep. But it's like I've worked with families in other states than Florida, and even in school, they have rules about like in their pre-K kind of classrooms, them needing to be in a bed for a certain amount of time or whatever, and that that piece can be really frustrating for for parents at home, especially when it's a transition to a new classroom or a new program or just school in general, school daycare, whatever. But you know, it they w they all figure it out eventually. So, next up, I want to talk a little bit about signs that your child might need a little bit of extra help. So what uh when you meet your classroom of kids, what to you goes, hmm, I'm a little curious. Not that there is anything wrong, but what are some typical flags that you're typically looking for that like maybe there at least needs to be a conversation? Not that you're insinuating that there's a something, an issue there, but like what's something that you look for?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, for sure. I think that the the biggest thing that I would be talking to parents about is sort of that extreme or the the social emotional skills that are outside of what we typically see. Students that are distressed very easily for long periods of time. And that distress can show up in a lot of different ways, right? Sometimes that distress is silence, sometimes that distress is is acting out, you know, screaming, yelling, hitting, that sort of thing. It it doesn't show up the same way in every child, but if those and and every child is, or not every child, but a lot of children have moments of that, of course, right? And but it's that kind of prolonged through the day or over you know months and months, uh, and it's not improving. That would be kind of more outside of what we typically see. And then communication concerns with with children. So in Ontario we have a great program, or in Ottawa, we have a great program called First Words, and a lot of parents are able to access that program before school starts to have a language assessment if they have concerns, but if that if any of that sort of pops up that parents haven't been able to address yet, then that's something that we would talk about.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Definitely. I many a times had chats with families. The one frustrating piece about that speech piece in Ontario for me is that once you hit kindergarten, first words is no longer a service available to you, and if you want to have speech support in the classroom, the list is like you're not gonna get seen unless you can barely be understood, and even then it's going to be a very long wait list. We're currently dealing that with that with my daughter, not that she's an extreme case whatsoever, but she was part of out where I live, it's called Language Express, and she was part of it until she started school, and they were like, Oh yeah, we'll put in the referral. She's not getting seen at school. That's not going to happen. So private is the way to go, but we were fortunate to have a little bit of support for that. I also remember some pretty extreme separation anxiety. So, like kids who there's been several circumstances, and you'll know what I'm talking about when I say this. Family has just moved here from another country where they don't speak English. They literally just arrived. They drop off their child at school and go somewhere else. That child is like has never before been left alone and doesn't speak the language of anyone around them. That's the sort of thing that that like we always chatted about and navigated in ways that we could and did what we could with it, but that that one was always hard. That one was hard because you don't speak the language and poor kids don't speak. So hard.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Poor thing. Yeah, like how are you getting thrown into that, you know? Like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Well and and you have to assume that like the parents are doing the best that they can, like for whatever reason that they are here in the country. Um and this was what felt like the best idea for them or the safest idea or whatever. Um but certainly those ones were always, whoa, especially the first couple weeks. I I remember feeling like I was underwater for the first couple of weeks, like everything was just harder uh until you get this large group of children into a routine and everybody is a little bit more familiar and it's less um it's less challenging then. So that's uh you always had your ride or die, you always had your teaching partners there. So that's amazing. Absolutely, absolutely necessary. You wouldn't have survived it. I tell you that, or I wouldn't have without it. So no uh the partnership dynamic is helpful. Um, okay, so let's wrap things up with a really quick, rapid fire.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Um yeah, okay. I'm gonna go with one. Ready? Best kindergarten lunch. Best lunch.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Oh, best lunch is a bento box with like all the choices, right? There they're so little, and lunch can be one of those things that's really overwhelming for them too. Some kids are grazers, some kids are not, but giving them lots of lots of choice, and and that that's the best lunch for sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Awesome. Okay, and indoor shoes, like you know, regular like running shoes or velcro, lace up shoes or velcro.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yeah, definitely velcro or something. You know, they don't even have velcro anymore. Now it's like they can just put their shoes on and it's so easy peasy, yeah. The elastics. Yeah, whatever your child can be independent in. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Okay. Next up, best first aid tip. I want you to give yours and then I'm gonna say mine, Jack. Best first aid tip.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Give a very quick goodbye at the gate, and and and off you go, mom and dad. It's uh you can watch from a distance, but give your child, trust your child, trust your child that they're that they're okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

I don't need to give my answer, it's the same one. Mine was going to be drop drop your answer. And then leave, please, because watching them makes it harder for you and for them.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. And biggest mistakes parents make. The biggest mistake parents make. Yeah, tell us.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

I oh, you know, I I want to just start by saying I think that parents are always doing the best they can with what they've got. And but I I would say, like I said before, trust your child. Your your child is is going to be okay. And when they feel that you're calm, they are calm. If they feel they they feel your anxiety, even if you think you're not showing it, they feel it. And so if you can be calm and trust your child, trust that everything is going to be okay, they will feel better.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Okay, and last one, favorite kindergarten memory. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Oh, there are so many. I I always thought I should write down all the things that they say because I I will forget one day the exact things they say in it, and it's just great. You know, I think just all those smiling faces on day two, like I I I think, or maybe week two, more likely. You know, when they're settled, when they're a bit settled in, day two isn't always the best. But when they're settled in and you know you kind of got a bit of a routine after a couple of weeks, I think that's it. Like, then you that that's it right there. You you know everybody's everybody's got it and and everyone's feeling great about it. That's that's it right there.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

And so one thing that every kindergarten teacher secretly wishes parents know. New, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I think that we're a team. Without without the team of the educators in the classroom and the parents, uh, when we're on the same team, your child succeeds. And we're we're all working in the best interests of of those little people in the classroom. And and that we really, really do care. Yeah.

unknown 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

You're invested in their children. You spend sometimes more time with them than the parents do in a day.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Quite the bond. I still have students to this day that I've I've taught. Like I actually have one that I'm specifically thinking of. My first year working in full-day kindergarten, she's now married. Married. And I've known her family for forever. And and I saw her the other day, and I was like, she remembered me. She remembered me warmly. Like, it's it's crazy the bond that you make, especially when it's a two-year program. So it's it's pretty it's pretty special. But anyways, thank you so much for joining us today, Jen. We have the chat and and being able to kind of reminisce a little bit. It's lovely for me. Um, and I think what people what people should take away from this episode is that you don't need to walk into kindergarten regardless of where you live with a perfect child. They just need support and confidence and loving people behind them and the opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

And it's pretty great. So yeah, thank you very much. With that, follow the podcast, like and share. You know, if you're finding that it resonates with you, share it, share it with your friends, share it with a kindergarten parent. And as always, you can follow Growing with Hope and sleep child of mine to keep posted with all of our things that we're going on with, and that way you'll know when the next one is coming out, too. We'll chat soon. Thanks, ladies. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Thank you.