Brandon Salmons, Horseman, Trainer and more

Brandon Salmons is an equestrian from North Carolina. He is passionate about helping equines and the people that love them find balance in their journey together. His holistic approach to training focuses on developing harmony through clear communication and understanding. His business, Balanced Equestrian, was born when he realized that everyone is seeking balance. It's literally everywhere... From hooves to saddles, rider position, movement, emotions, nutrition, and even down to balancing time and finances. His efforts in finding balance have manifested an enjoyable life with his wife and animals while surrounded by friends and clients. The Balanced Equestrian training program has produced multiple world champions in the Western Dressage Association of America, a USEF National Champion, and multiple National Champions with the North American Saddle Mule and Donkey Association. At the end of the day Brandon's best friend still is Sammie the talking donkey who is known for his use of talking buttons, a form of Augmentative and Alternative communication. Brandon would love to help you achieve your dreams with your equine friend!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

To be a horseman is defined as a person who is skilled in riding. A person on a horse. A person who owns, breeds, trains, or tends to horses. But I believe it's so much more than that. The ability to communicate, build a relationship, a partnership with a horse, and work together as a result of understanding and mutual respect is no small feat. It changes lives. Working together, achieving goals while building a deep bond of trust and respect. Learning from each other, and reaching places you never thought were possible. Our country was largely discovered, settled, and prospered on the back of a horse. Even today, 250 years later, horses are still a large part of our society. Census tells us that there are about eight million horses in the US. 80,000 wow. Their jobs include everything from recreational, athletics, gentlemanship to working class horses. We just can't live without them. And the good men that make party. Join us on this journey of discovery as we learn about these great horsemen. Allow their shared stories to feel like you've never failed before. Touch in places you've long forgotten. Be connected with your soul in a new way. Because that's what horsemen do. And we have known each other for a very long time. I've kind of watched Brandon grow up, and he's an amazing horseman, and he chose an interesting breed to work with. So, Brandon, tell us a little bit about you and how you got involved with donkeys.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, um, right now I'm I'm mostly known on the social media world for our work with donkeys and mules. And I was before that, I was a horse lover and rode horses and showed horses. And uh in high school, I had a really good opportunity to ride some really good quality mules and made friends with people in that world. And uh those mules were really just competing in the same things that horses were competing in. And we had a really good friend that went out west and bought a mammoth donkey uh and that had been trained to ride, and so she came to a show and brought her mammoth donkey, and I got to ride him, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And so yeah, from that day I was like, I want a donkey. And I had actually had some mini donkeys and things around before that, but never a big donkey. And uh, so yeah, that that started my mammoth donkey uh obsession, if we want to call it that. And uh, but yeah, that that was that was it.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Well, you know, donkeys and mules certainly can do anything that a horse can do, some of it better. So tell us a little bit about how you have grown into that field. You know, I know that you you're known for it all over the place. I see you win it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, yeah, thanks. We um it was interesting how this has evolved because in 2020 is when I started working with the public and training for the public. And at the time, I really didn't want to be the mule guy. And at least locally, that's who I was, because I think when people saw what we were doing, even though we were we had more horses than we were riding than mules, the mules stood out, and so we kind of got put in that category, and I remember fighting it a bit because I thought, hang on a minute, we have some really athletic horses too, you know. And even now we have a barn barn full of horses and a couple mules, and um so it took me a while to embrace it, but the mules are so incredible, and and the donkeys too. And so uh my wife just this past year went to the Western Dressage World Show. I was there riding a horse, and she had a mule that she rode, and she won, I think, two world championships in that week at that show. I mean, and and and even up to the level one stuff, so not even in just the low levels, and it was incredible to see how much they appreciated um the harmony and the good training that was with that mule, but but they still appreciated it even though she was a mule, and maybe even more so. You know, um I've had people tell me sometimes that they think we get a little extra points because it's a mule, but I think uh and that may be true even, but because what people typically see from the mules doesn't always look nice or doesn't always look harmonious, I guess. Yeah, I guess they they have that that stubborn um yeah, the reputation. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, you know, I I was always uh pleasantly surprised because I I bought my horse feed at Mule City for years and I would go see uh Paul's mules and they they never cease to amaze me with their smarts and their their whole personality, you know. So and what and through my experiences, mules can do anything horses can do, and some better.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, amen. I tell people a lot that that mules are just like horses, but more so. And it's it seems like they they have a bit more extreme to things. So like if you have a horse that's herdbound or buddy sour, people like to call it, um, the mule is gonna be more so. And you know, and and sometimes it goes in the good side of things too. Like if a horse is sure footed, the mule might be more sure footed or whatever, but they tend to be uh a bit more extreme where the horses maybe there's there's more average horses than I think they're just kind of average mules.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I used to laugh because Paul would say that you know, your horse will follow you anywhere. If you jump off the cliff, he'll go right behind you. But the mules gonna sit down and say bye, stupid.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, yeah. You know, and that yeah, we've joked with that before too. It's like, you know, um, you you might fall off the cliff, but the mule won't fall off the cliff, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That's right. That's right. So they're pretty amazing though, because they can go in a lot rougher terrain, they're perfect for like rescue and search and stuff because of their their willingness to go through harder territory, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah, I so a lot of what we do is you know, dancing around in arenas. Yeah, we we tend to do dressage and things with ours, but it's funny because um they are really incredible in that world. And and I see other videos of friends of ours just in the craziest places and the craziest terrain. And and I've even ridden um mules uh in, you know, like Grayson Highlands and things, and you know, we would get to spots and I would just close my eyes because I trusted their abilities more than mine. It was kind of nerve-wracking for me. So yeah, I I stick to my arena most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well, tell me about the mules in Western Dressage because that that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, so there are it's not just us, there are several other mules that are doing really well at even at the world level. And uh I think in the traditional dressage world, there have been mules that have done well in that world as well, but um they often look for really elaborate movement, and so in the Western dressage, it's not um so much focused in that way, and so there's a huge uh respect towards harmony and and executing the test correctly. So, you know, you're going out and riding a pattern, and and you you if you have a good partnership and you're on their understanding what you're asking them to do, it can be really beautiful, but it doesn't have to be this huge elaborate movement. And I think that's why western dressage is probably a great sport for a lot of mule people.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, that makes sense because I know that in dressage in general, you don't ever want to see the rider tell the horse what to do, it should just look like he he instinctively figures it out. Right, and mules would be good for that, I would think.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, they're incredible. And and even some of the horses that I ride, you know, we laugh because they they learn the tests, you know, like they know what's coming when. And uh I feel like when I was a kid, we were always talking about you didn't want the horse to anticipate. And now with our training, I feel like it's it it's more helpful than not that they they know what's coming sometimes. And I'm like, Yeah, help me out. I'm glad you know because I'm I'm trying to remember, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I always appreciated it when he kind of knew what I wanted, and you know, it stuck to my idea for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Now tell me about your donkeys.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So right now I actually only own one donkey, and his name is Sammy, and so there's lots of videos of him on social media and things, and um, and he his job is to be my best friend and to um live with me and and kind of I don't know, right now we're we're doing a lot of experimenting into things that I don't always feel free to do with other people's animals that come into training. Oftentimes when they come into our training facility, there's an end date to that, so you don't just have all the time in the world, right? Um, or they're looking for performance. You know, we have the most amazing clients, and so they, you know, we have clients that want to focus on the relationship, but at the end of the day, there's still probably some expectation there. And so I kind of joke that, you know, really Sammy he doesn't have to perform. There's nothing that he has to do other than, you know, let me trim his feet and do vet care and things like that. But I would argue that I actually get more out of him most days than than other people with donkeys that I know. And so the the training that we've done has been um and well, and it didn't always start this way. Initially, I tried to start doing things uh probably a more traditional route, and that that just didn't feel good to either one of us. So um what people see a lot in our videos now is using like talking buttons, which is a form of AAC, it's augmentative and alternative communication. So, but it basically just gives him a choice. So we have lots of different games that we play, and so I'll put the different buttons on the board with different games so he can choose which activity we're gonna do that day. And even to down to um, I have a button for scritches where I can scratch him if it says scritches, and then I have a button that says brush, and so if he pushes brush, I pick up a brush. If he says scriches, I just do it with my hands, and then I'll even pick up multiple brushes. I might hold two different brushes up and let him choose which brush I use. And it's been incredible because most of the time, just like I said before, we don't feel the freedom to give our animals this level of choice. And so what he's done for me is he has given me that freedom. He he's a good boy, I don't have behavioral problems. So I can go out there and open everything up and just say, well, let's have a relationship that is a bit more based on choice and um see what happens. And some incredible things have happened through that. You know, he he offers all kinds of things that we maybe we wish we could get out of, you know, our performance horses sometimes. His enthusiasm's there. Um, and and he's so cool because you know, I walk outside and call him and he just you know brays at me and he's so excited to see me. And and that's really the relationship that I wanted. You know, I I had other animals that were happy doing their jobs, but I was looking for something deeper. And I I raised him, I got him as a wingling, and we had we always had a good relationship. But then when I kind of said, okay, what what are we gonna do together? You know, are you gonna be a show donkey or are you gonna, you know, do something else? This is kind of where we fell into. And so it's it's been a fun way to live.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

That's so amazing because you know, the people don't really realize how smart these animals are. And how, you know, he does problem solve and he does communicate with you and tell you, and now he's learned to communicate with you in a way that you know he didn't ever we never ask him to do before. We've always had to learn to communicate with them. So that's really, really fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah. It's interesting because you know, and and I don't even know if it's it's wrong. It's not that I think this is wrong or right, but if you look at what we do with horses, you know, we walk out and we catch them, we tie them up, tack them up, get on their back, and then we tell them every step where to take that step. And then, you know, we we might feel you know nice and you know, g give them massage or brush them and groom them and then give them a treat and turn them back out. But when you think they really just don't have a lot of choice, right? Their their whole life is dictated to them. You know, you're we are benevolent dictators, we mean well, but we are ruling everything. And and sometimes that just needs to be that way. But again, it's just I I have the freedom with him. I own him, I can take as much time or as little time, I can go out there for four hours, I can go out there for 10 minutes and do whatever I want in that time. And so it's just been a beautiful thing to to feel free enough to experiment and to try those things.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I think that's so amazing, you know, and and it I always relate horses and human stuff together because that's how my poor brain works. But um when I was young, I typed really fast. I I could type 120 words a minute, not bad an eye. But that isn't what I wanted to do for a living, you know, but it was how I could make money easy and be good at it. But I wanted to talk and do what I do now. You know, so it it how wonderful would it be if they had a choice of saying, Well, you know, I don't really like dressage, but I'd rather be a barrel horse, you know? And we listened because they do tell us, but we don't always listen.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

You're right. They they do tell us, and so I think um we've had conversations before with people, they say, Oh, well, you don't really need those buttons, because if you actually read their body language correctly, they're gonna tell you things, and that is 100% true. And there you need to be good at reading the horse, but sometimes I still miss it, and these buttons have given him a louder voice more than his body language, you know. I mean, it's just incredible that that he has been able to kind of speak through that. And we're in the very early stages. I have lots of dreams where um we're we're doing even more than what we're doing now, but it's it's so cool to see. And I just think, wouldn't it be cool if you were riding your dressage horse and you you go, okay, like do you want to work on your pirouettes or your peoff now and let them push which button they want to do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Right. I I agree with you. I think that's just absolutely beautiful, and it certainly cements a true partnership, which is the end game of everybody if if you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

That is so cool. Now tell me a little bit about your farrier business because you've been doing that for a pretty good long time now. I wish you lived closer. I'd need a farrier.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, so um that also started quite organically, and I I was interested in farrier stuff um honestly since I started with horses, but I never wanted to be a farrier. And it but I wanted to know information. I have this thing that I I really hate not knowing information, so I'm always trying to learn. But the more you know, you know, the more the better you have to do. So yeah, so I was really blessed and had a couple really good farriers that uh wanted to teach me what they were doing. And then I started, again, training for the public in 2020. And I uh growing a business, I had a little bit more time for a little while. So uh my farrier at the time, he said, Well, here I'm gonna give you some trimming clients, and you can just you know do some barefoot trims on you know pasture horses and things, and because I have too many to do, and um and we'll go from there. And so from that, I started taking on uh some of our training horses. I started doing their hooves because oftentimes they would come in, they wouldn't be very good with their feet, anyways, and the farrier didn't want to have to deal with them. So I started doing them. Uh, but at the time, all of our, you know, riding horses that were working hard were all shod and four shoes. And ironically, now most of the work that I do is barefoot, and we manage them quite well barefoot. And I think the biggest difference is that there's probably more management. You know, we we look at them every day, we watch them move every day, and I remember growing up we just had horses with four shoes on, and I I barely looked at their hooves, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Right, right. Yeah, I mean you don't think about it until it's time to do it again. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

That is really, really unique.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, it was really just a slow transition. Um, you know, not that we we still have horses that we sh uh do shoes on now, and client horses that are shod um for different reasons. Sometimes it's therapeutic reasons, sometimes it's uh just to protect the hooves so they can perform more. But in our line of work, we we do a lot of the same work every single day. So as the whole horse is developing, the hooves develop to that level as well. Um, the hardest is when you have a horse that's you know sitting out in the pasture, not doing anything, and then the um owner decides they're gonna go for a week-long camping trip and they're gonna ride you know 20 miles every day. Well, now that horse went from doing nothing to something. So you better believe you you need to uh protect their hooves in that situation. But when you have horses that are working, you know, and doing hard stuff every single day, it's amazing how strong and uh wonderful their hooves can become.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

So now, do mules and donkeys generally have good feet anyway?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

It's interesting because I think they're known for having good feet. Yeah, donkeys, donkeys are incredibly difficult in this area because uh it's very wet, it's very humid, and then we have lots and lots of sugary grass. So they eat the sugary grass, they're and that they are uh meant to be in the desert. They really come from the desert, right? So they have lots of metabolic problems from eating that sugary grass, and then um the lamina is inflamed, and then when it becomes inflamed, it's opened up to all these microbes and the wetness. So then the next thing you know, you have white line disease and thrush, and so it's really tough for donkeys because they they they tend to have painful feet, and then farriers come in and and we're asked to trim them, and then they their feet hurt, so then they fight the farrier, and then the farriers you know doesn't like doing donkeys, but it's really difficult. And I think that they can handle, you know, they can handle wet if they're on a good diet, or they can handle maybe not the best diet if the terrain is better, but when when you kind of pile it all on, like we have here, the they go out and eat the sugary grass, and then they're in the wet and the humid weather, they really kind of fall apart. So we see a lot of really poor donkey feet, but then uh I have a client that um she has four donkeys, they have probably the best feet that we work on. And every time we go there, she she uh apologizes for mud because her her place is muddy. And I just laugh and I say, Well, you they have the best feet out of all the donkey feet that we work on, but it's because of the diet. And and they don't go out on sugary grass, you know, she feeds good hay and uh does mineral and vitamin balancing, and so they. Have beautiful feet, and we don't have any issues with them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, and then the the the mules, um the issue that I seem to have with them is that oftentimes they get shod for part of their life, and and it's the same issue that we have in horses in a in traditional open heel shoes. Um, when we lift the frog off the ground, there there becomes some dysfunction in the back of the foot. And so the hoof doesn't flex and um move the way that it would without the shoe. And then the frog um is off the ground a bit, so then they they tend to atrophy. So the frog and digital cushion atrophy and the heels contract uh in many, many cases, and then in mules, all of that, all those structures, the frog, the digital cushion, all of that is so much bigger anatomically compared to their other structures. So when a horse hoof contracts, it's one thing. When a mule hoof contracts, it's much worse. And so, um, like we own a mule, my wife's mule, that uh it's just it's like her feet, they're they're a little better every year. You know, we take pictures a few times a year, and I'm like, they're a little better, a little better, a little better, but they'll probably never be the same as I have some mules that have never been shod, and they just I mean, they can go to the mountains and there's rock crunchers, you know. I mean, they're just incredible. And then um, you know, others that have had atrophy, it's it's really, really hard to get it back sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, I did not know that. That's very interesting. I've never had anybody explain it like that before, but I you know, you think about it when you're barefooted, your foot contracts and moves all kinds of ways, and when you wear shoes, they don't. So that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, and now you know, nowadays you can get any kind of shoe you can imagine. And so we use a lot of um urethane composite shoes, so they're flexible shoes and they shock absorb better than metal. Um, you can buy wooden clogs and you know, multiple kinds of metal. I mean, there's the it's endless what you can buy nowadays, and so when we have to shoe them, we tend to gravitate towards things that have frog support, and um, we we support those structures that we don't want to contract and atrophy, and then we use flexible shoes, which allows the hoof to keep flexing and moving. And sometimes, honestly, for the mules and donkeys, we end up doing glue-on shoes more often because in the horses, we would just use some hoof boots. We use flex boots a lot on our horses, and they're I don't know if you've ever seen them, but they're super lightweight, yeah. They fit like a glove, they're really flexible, they have really good breakover in them, and so they are, you know, one of the top performance boots, in my opinion, uh and and work really well for the the riding and things that we do. Well, unfortunately, mules' hooves are often shaped so differently, um, especially if there's contracture in the back of the foot, it's even worse. And so those boots just don't always work for us. Sometimes, sometimes we can make them work. Um, Bernie Herberts is a friend of mine. Do you know who that is? Yep. I do very well. He uses hoof boots and he his mules and him go across the country and they make it work, and um and that's incredible to me. And I um I have some that we've used boots on, but the they are it's it's difficult. Uh it's it's certainly more difficult than it is with the horses.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Definitely. I I could see where it would be. Yeah, I've known Bernie for a long, long time. Very interesting guy, very good mule mule skinner, I guess you call it.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yeah, he's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

I know, I know. Do you have any clinics or um things coming up that you guys are doing?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

We do a lot of the clinics that we do end up being um private clinics because uh, you know, a barn will invite us in, but then they already have enough people that are already in that barn. So uh I would tell people we don't have a huge schedule that we post out there, but if you're interested in hosting something uh either for Western Versage or um something more direct uh along the lines of positive reinforcement or using talking buttons or something like that, then then uh we would love to help. Uh my wife is also in the business with me, and so she does all that stuff too. And uh maybe just reach out and ask us.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Okay. And now how can people find you and follow you?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Uh right now it's easiest just with social media. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok. So um we will probably have a website up this year uh because we're working on an online platform uh that's gonna be um initially it's gonna be focused on the the AAC uh training with buttons and things, but it uh we'll eventually have all of our training on it. Uh so right now start with social media and then when there's a website available, it'll be posted on there.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

All right. Um, I'm getting ready to run out of time. I just got the notice. I didn't realize I was on a timed thing today. Um sorry about that. What advice would you give people coming into our industry, just real quick?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah, so it this is a challenging industry and it's hard to um make a living in this industry. But what I have found is that you have to focus on things that uh resonate with you. I I never thought that people would be all that interested in talking buttons and playing with donkeys. Yeah, people have been way more interested in that than in even like any of our dressage work, it seems like. And um we we've gone viral a couple times online uh with with those videos. And so that's so cool to me because I was so passionate about that and wanted to do that for so long, but didn't feel like I had the time to do it. And now that there's enough interest, I'm like, oh, I have the time. I'm gonna make the time, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:35

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

There you go. So find something that that resonates with you and and find a way to make money doing that.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Thank you so much for being on the show today. I'm sorry that we're running out of time, but people can find you Brandon Sammons on Facebook and social media and uh reach out and and give Brandon a call and let him help you with some of your stuff, or go see the talking buttons. I think that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah. Thanks, Rose.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Thank you for being on the show.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

It's my pleasure to host today's Horseman Podcast: a chance to hear working horsemen's voices, hear what inspires them, experience their trials and struggles, and realize we all have a story to tell, and it's worth telling. I hope you enjoyed the show today. As always, thank you for listening and follow us on Facebook for more.