You Don't Have to Have It All Figured Out

In this episode, I sit down with Mfon Akpan, accounting professor, mentor, and lifelong learner, to talk about career paths, confidence, and the surprising power of trying things before you're sure they're right for you.

What stood out to me most about this conversation is how often our assumptions turn out to be wrong.

We think we know what we'll enjoy. We think we know what we're good at. We think we know what opportunities matter. And sometimes we're right.

But often, the experiences that shape our lives begin with a simple willingness to say yes before we have everything figured out. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think it's important to try different things, to know what you don't like. You know what I mean? So you may say I like something, but also know what you don't like, so you may fear away from it, but also don't be afraid to try it. The theory of it may be different than the actual practice.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Welcome to the I Am Wiser Podcast, where the biggest questions in healthcare and wellness meet the collective wisdom of industry leaders and innovators. I'm Dr. Laura Purdy, and here we explore the intersections of AI, care delivery, telehealth policy, and more. Through the lens of those who are reshaping healthcare. This is not just about theory, it's about lived experience and real industry insights. Let's dive in and get wiser together. Welcome to today's episode of the I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr. Laura Purdy, where I explore the real stories behind groundbreaking healthcare innovations and the human impact they have on patients and providers. On that note, I'm delighted to welcome M Fon Akpan, an assistant professor of accounting and seasoned mentor, who has spent over a decade shaping minds, advancing knowledge, and embracing continuous learning. Mfon brings a unique perspective on AI and lifelong learning, emphasizing how technology can empower people, improve decision making, and ultimately elevate patient-centered care. Through his work in education, research, and community service, he demonstrates that embracing new tools and committing to ongoing growth is key to creating meaningful impact. Welcome, M Fon. How are you today? Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Laura.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

It's exciting to get to speak with someone from a totally different industry, by the way, than I really know much of anything about. So I'm obviously in healthcare, and that's what I've done my entire professional career. So tell us a little bit about the industry you work in, where you are, what you're doing, and how you got there.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, I'm I'm in the higher education, uh, education industry. I'm uh assistant professor of accounting at Northeastern State University here in Oklahoma. Um got here is you know, it was a winding path, a long path of, you know, a lot of school to get my doctorate in accounting. But I'm happy to be here, happy to to help um students, you know, students to to get to where they want to be, which is ultimately in the in the workforce.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

That's really cool. A doctorate of accounting. I'm curious, did you have a special project or some sort of uh like did you do something at the end of your doctorate? What did you what did you focus on?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, so I had my dissertation, uh, which was uh what we call applied research. Um so I solved a problem actually for Uber. So I an executive where Uber had an accounting issue, and uh my dissertation was helping with that particular issue.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

That's really impressive. I mean, at that time was Uber a small company or were they a big company that we know today?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Oh, it was a big company. It was a big company. So it was it it was an exciting opportunity, and I I got to give, you know, shout out to my dissertation chair, uh Dr. Tiffany Schuster, who presented that, you know, she she introduced me to the at the time, the executive at Uber who had this challenge. She didn't tell me who he was or what it was. She just said, hey, listen, you know, I want you to meet with this person, a potential um dissertation topic for you, and I trusted her and uh met with him. And I'll I'll I'm gonna just tell you this, Laura. I was ner well, I I haven't said this outside, um, but I was nervous. So I'm in this meeting and then explaining all this stuff to me. I'm smiling like I am now, but I'm like, what did I get myself into? Because to be honest, I didn't know how I was gonna figure this thing out. Uh but you know, prayed about it. It ultimately uh worked out.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. You said, Oh, Uber, I think you've heard of them. What could they possibly want with me?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

There there you go. But that changes your whole, you know, taking those chances. And we were talking about that a little bit earlier.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Just those little moments, those decisions can just change your whole uh trajectory.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

And can you imagine what would have happened if you didn't have the bravery or the courage or the confidence or the faith to step out of your comfort zone and say, you know what, I think I will solve an accounting problem for Uber? That's really impressive. Thanks for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Wow. So you got your doctorate in accounting, and now you teach undergrad or graduate? Which level are you teaching at?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Uh both. Both. Yes. So undergrad and then uh graduate.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Wow. Accounting students. And do most of them want to become accountants? Like are a lot of them taking it because it's required, or do you take or do they take it because it's a part of their career path to become an accountant?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Uh that's a good question. So the ones I see, they're already more upper-level students. Got it. So they've already decided that's their major. But you you're right. If you're a business major, you're you you've got to take, you know, finance, you've got to take an accounting course as a business major. So not necessarily, you know, it it it depends. But in my case, I see mostly uh 99% accounting majors.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Wow. Well, as a as a startup founder and a business owner, I will say you can't say enough about how important it is to have an educated, qualified, competent, capable accountant because that will absolutely make or break your business. So I'm glad that you're out there, that you're out there doing that, teaching and educating the next generation of uh workplace accountants. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

So let's talk about, I want to hear about why you do what you do. What was it in your life that led you to get to the point where you decided, you know what, I think I'm gonna be because accountants, I mean, you could probably work anywhere. You could work for the largest business in America, you can solve problems for Uber, which means you probably could work at a place like Uber, but you have chosen to go down the educational path. Tell me a little bit about what drives you to stay in higher education rather than go down the, you know, jump on the corporate rat race or whatever the other options are.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah, that's a good question. So I would say seeing people progress. I get I get a lot of fulfillment seeing students, you know, go from the classroom to to the workforce. So we were talking about, you know, Fayetteville. You know, I I can think one student had her in class of mine. She worked at um I'm trying, I can't remember the pizza place, but Elizabeth's. I think it was Elizabeth's Pizza.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

In Fayetteville.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

In Fayetteville, North Carolina. I've been there. I went there, you know, me and my wife, we we went there, she was working there, would visit her, and then I see her go for an internship. Then I see her graduate, and then that internship turns into a full-time job. And then she comes back and talks to the class, you know, to the students. So seeing that, I really get a lot of fulfillment. That really is what drives me more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Oh, yeah, that's a totally different experience than what you would get working at a corporation. I think that's beautiful, though, because that is a heart and that is a sentiment that's pretty rare. To find someone who rejoices and finds joy and fulfillment in the success of others, that is very, very rare, especially in today's society. Many people do not have so much of a mind towards the success of others. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Well, it developed. So initially I enjoyed the interaction, the the mental challenge, teaching, but then after seeing students, you see, you know, and and I feel like I had a little, little part in, you know, that success. So you, you know, you you start to move into different directions and develop different perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Okay. Well, let's talk about the wisdom then, because what I'm hearing is that you really enjoy the journey. You enjoy the journey of helping those students get from, I think I want to go into accounting, not just I want to take some classes because it's required, but I'm going to have a career in accounting all the way to I have a successful career in accounting. And I would imagine on that journey, you have your students, or at least you see your students, encounter a lot of roadblocks, a lot of common points of friction, difficulties. So as you're seeing the students in these journeys, can you tell me what are the top maybe two or three biggest conflicts that you see these students encounter when they're on that professional journey from beginner to success?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Wow, that was a good question. I'll focus on that same student I was talking about back in Fayetteville, um who later on she let me know that um something I did indirectly helped her or motivated her to move forward. And one of those things was I invited another student's mom to come and speak to our class. I didn't think, you know, it was great we have a guest speaker, but she let me know that that person coming in describing not her like uh day-to-day, like what she does, you know, like in the office, but more so talking about her whole career progression. In other words, she was able, you know, she graduated, she got a job, she, you know, got married, had, you know, the the student who was in our class, gave birth to the student there, was able to take time off, go back into the workforce, work in different areas. So she related to me that that was very important because that inspired her, because now she could see that, okay, this is something that I can do. Now that didn't click with me because I didn't invite her, I brought her in to talk about, you know, the technical the day-to-day, but that got me to see how important those types of conversations are. Um, especially if you're someone who's not in the practice, you're you're you're not working on the job, so you're still you're learning about it, but you you're kind of wondering what would my life look like, or you know, how you know, where would I fit in with this? So that was one. The other thing that that she taught me was um you know, learn about uh different areas of accounting. So uh she was in my auditing class, she had tax, she did not like tax. And who does she didn't like it, it she didn't like the class.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

You know, which was it's she didn't like the tax class, but then she got her internship in tax. Oh so then actually during the internship, she loved tax. That's her job. She loves you know, so it was a total kind of uh fli you know 360. So I think it's important to try different things, also to know what you don't like. Yes, you know what I mean. So you may say I like something, but also know what you don't like, so you may veer away from it, but also don't be afraid to try it because it the theory of it may be different than the actual uh practice.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

I love what you said. Let's go back to that first point because uh what you're saying here is really impactful. I hear this a lot from doctors too, because we go through our education and we are told this is how you must practice. You must get out of residency, you must go work for a hospital, you must do research. Whatever it is you're supposed to do varies based on specialty. Um, but I'm a really good example of the fact that there are so many more ways. Just like what you're saying with Elizabeth and your other student's mom. There are so many other ways that we can be, we can choose. And if it doesn't feel right to follow the path that you are told you should do or what the traditional path is, it can be really inspiring to find role models that you can look to and say, I like what I see there. That looks really interesting to me. And so I think finding a role model, finding a mentor, or even finding an anti-role model, someone that you say, I don't want to be like that, that can be really powerful for your students.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, it is because I, you know, I'll have uh individuals coming in and they may work. You know, I had some individuals working government accounting, they come in, students will, you know, they'll tell them what my day-to-day is like, and I'll have some students who are like, you know what? So for example, I had some visitors who worked in internal audit in government.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

And they're like, I'm never at my desk. I'm hardly in the office, I'm always going different places. And then after their visit, I had uh a student tell me I I couldn't do that. I want to sit at my desk, I want to be there all day. I don't want to leave. I don't want to travel around. I couldn't do that job. So I was like, that's great. So now you learned something you don't really want to do, you know, because you prefer to just be in that one spot, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

But I think our desires and our likes, dislikes, and preferences, that's a really important key to help us understand the path that we should walk down rather than bumping into walls, taking opportunities that are the wrong ones. And that's actually a really good point to touch on because I do hear a lot of people, young, younger people, when they're thinking about going to college, they say, well, it's an engineering school, so I guess I'll do engineering, or my parents are doctors, so I'll probably go into healthcare. And to say to them, okay, but what is it that you want to do? What sounds exciting to you? What sounds fun to you, even if it's not sitting at a desk, or yes, sitting at a desk all day, every day, if we make those choices that move us in the direction of where we're interested and where we're passionate, then we're living from our purpose rather than living from what routine, mandate, tradition.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Exactly. And then also I think some of it is you don't waste as much time because you kind of know where you want to go and what you want to do. So you're not uh kind of stumbling a little bit or what could happen. You may get into the you know an area and you don't like it, and then you leave the profession altogether. So I think it's important to know those options and also know, you know, what you would enjoy. I'll give you uh I got a more recent example.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

I had because you know, I always try as as much to have practitioners come in and then talk, especially after that one student relayed that to me, how valuable that was. And recently I did that, and one of the questions was about work-life balance. And one of the students was like, Hey, I work from home, and you know, you know, the that he had he has kids, he's like, You'd have to pay me a lot of money to get me to to have to change my position to where I have to be in an office. You know, so those are things that wasn't a technical quest, you know, that wasn't a question about the audit work. That was more work-life balance, but that's still important, you know, for someone to understand, like, okay, it and you know, the the guest speaker I brought in answered that question and was able to give, you know, him some insight to that and you know, acknowledge that that part is very important.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

And it's important to know that everyone has a different preference and none of them are wrong, right? It's not wrong to want to work from home. And there are some people who will say, absolutely, I could never work from home. I can't do that. It's too distracting, it's too whatever. I like getting out, I go stir crazy. Neither are wrong. But we live in a workplace today where there are so many hybrid options, especially for things that don't have to be done in person, like accounting or even telehealth. We can do from home if we choose to. So I think it's beautiful that you are in a position where you can show your students. I I know when I was going through college, which was a long time ago, none of these options even existed. I mean, there were no hybrid work from home, remote environments. There was it didn't exist and we didn't get exposure to that. So I think it's beautiful that your students are getting that exposure early so they can start planning because I'm sure that you've seen a lot of people in the emerging adult generation have a lot of fear or analysis paralysis because they don't know what they want to do, and they fear that they don't know what they want to do, and they think that they might never arrive at it. Are you do you see that in your students, this fear?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, I see that. And what one of the big areas is that they're nervous about being prepared. So they're like, you know, I don't know if I graduate, if I'm able to even do the job, you know, and then I explain to them, they're gonna train you, you know, they're gonna go over things, you're gonna get more experience, and again, bringing people in from the the industry to kind of reiterate like, hey, that's right. We're we're gonna train you, you know, you you you know enough, you've got to learn our systems, there will be a learning curve, but you know, you you've got to kind of face that hit on. So that is a big one where a lot of times I hear, hey, I I don't think I'm ready, I don't think I know this or that. When I think many times they're they're prepared or over prepared.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

And that's a beautiful piece of wisdom too, because nobody's really ever ready for their day one. I I wasn't. Were you ready for your day one?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

No, I wasn't. I wasn't. You you learn, but but you have the the basic competency, you've got the basic skills, you know, you've learned a lot. And and I think one thing I try to emphasize is that you know the newest stuff. Like you think about it, you're coming from school, you're getting the most recent knowledge and information and and techniques versus someone who's been out of school six, seven years. Yes, they have experience, but you're coming in with a lot more fresh ideas and fresh information.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

That's right. And what I tell young doctors is you have to have at least some element of self-confidence. You have to have confidence in your education, in yourself as the person who invested their time and their um knowledge and their life in this education and in your ability to show up and give it your best and learn as much as you can every single day. Nobody was 100% prepared for their first day of work, but especially once you've been there, let's say 90 days or so, it's a totally different experience than day one.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Building that confidence, yep. Getting that mindset. And it it's you know, you think about it, it when you you know you're asking about these people coming into the class or talking to the students, a lot of this isn't tied to the actual day to day work.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Do you you know what I mean? So uh a lot of it is work life balance, uh mindset, you know, you say confidence. So these are kind of things that are that are around and they're very important. You know, it's like like you Putting together some sort of gumbo or some soup or something. They're all the ingredients that you need to have in there, you know, to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

For a deliciously fulfilling career, to use your analogy. Well, in our before we started, we were having a conversation about the wisdom behind the concept of trying new things. And I would love to hear your thoughts on that and where that wisdom comes from because a lot of people are uncomfortable and scared to try new things and new experiences. And just like the story you were sharing with me before we got started, maybe you can share again. The willingness to try something new can be entirely life-changing for the better. And so I would love to hear that story again, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, you know, you know, just on that theme, I was telling you about my dissertation chair. I trusted her. You know, she said, hey, let's have this meeting. I had the meeting, you know. I really believed in her more than I was believing in me because she she brought me to, you know, you think about she brought me to the meeting and connected us. So even though in my mind I'm saying, this is, you know, what am I getting myself into? But she trusts me. So let me just go ahead and move forward with it. And it totally uh had a big impact on me. And I was thinking about that over the weekend. Uh, what I was telling you, we went to my wife and I, we went to the uh Tulsa uh glass blowing school. Yeah. I've never been to glass glass uh glass blowing, but it's the this past weekend was a whole um arts weekend where they had an open house, and there was a gentleman, Cedric Mitchell, famous uh glass blower, originally from Tulsa. He was in there, you know, doing making creations, glass blowing, and we got there early. So we got there early, and I was able to, you know, to have a conversation with him, and I was just curious because I'm looking at all this stuff, all these ovens, it's hot, you know, flames and stuff, and I'm like, how did you get into this? You know, what you know got got you into that? And he told me he was going to community college here, and uh he was into music, the rap music and things, and he was in a studio one night with uh one of his his friends. He went to TC Tulsa Community College, and they were in there making music. He said it was one in the morning, and his buddy told him, like, hey, you need to sign up for this glass blowing class, you can take it as an elective. So he just said he went in on his phone, went in and it was available. He signed up for it, didn't know anything about it, and then went to the class and loved it, and loved it so much. He was explaining how he would volunteer, like they had a program where you volunteer four hours, you get one hour of glass blowing. So he would clean up and do whatever he could to get an hour. So he did that for years, and then you know, but I I think the key takeaway for me was it was one in the morning, he just did one thing, sign up for the course, and that changed his life. He's famous uh in this in that craft, that's what's called a craft. He's he's uh I don't know nationwide or world famous in that. Wow. Um, but it was just that one decision that kind of shifted him, you know. So I think that's important to have an open mind, to uh try different things, listen to people, you know, and to take those those chances. The worst thing you can figure out, hey, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah, or you can come at it from the perspective of what's the best thing that could happen? Right? Not what's the worst thing that can happen. What's the best thing that can happen? Maybe I'll become a nationally acclaimed glassblower and change my career. Did you get to try it, by the way? Did they did you get to try glass blowing, or it's not like that?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

No, no, it was watching. So he he actually lives in LA and they flew him out for this event for him to actually make this, he made this creation. Wow so we were all there, I mean it was packed. So there's so many people there watching him actually do the do his thing and make this creation. So we got to see it. It's interesting though. I learned a lot. I've never you know, I've never seen anyone do that. It piqued my interest. I wouldn't mind trying to I I the the only the only setback is that oven. He said it was 2,000 degrees. I I don't know about that oven, but that's part of the process. You know, see, this is trying something new, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Right out of that comfort zone. But but again, if we take advantage of the opportunities that are in front of us, yeah, even if they even remotely sound fun or cool, you never know, right? You never know which opportunity is gonna bear so much fruit in your life and in your future.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah, you you never know the people you'll meet, the things that you'll learn, you know, you you might cat get some skills, and those things may help you down the road. Because a lot of times some things may not help you right away, or you might not have any benefit from it immediately, but then later on is something that, wow, you're like, wow, you know, that thing I thought it was something small or something strange to do, but that ultimately, you know, changed changed my you know, you changed your life. And I I could think of some instances like that where things like that have happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Me too. Wow. I'm feeling so inspired. And I'm really happy that you decided to be a teacher because I have, you know, I have five children and they're all gonna go to school someday, I assume. And I really, really hope that they find teachers along their way like yourself who are motivating, passionate, having a positive mindset, encouraging them to be open-minded. And I think these are such valuable traits to have in someone who's a teacher. So thank you. Um on behalf of all the parents of the students out there, thank you for what you do for our babies. It's really good work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So, you know, we're pretty much done with our time for today. At least 30 minutes flies by really quick, doesn't it? Especially when you're just dropping wisdom everywhere. So thank you for all of the wisdom that you brought to this episode today. If there's anybody who's listening to this episode and says, gosh, I really want to reach out to him. I think he's really inspiring and I would love to connect with him. Where can we find you? Are you on LinkedIn? Do you have a website? Where are you online?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah, LinkedIn is the best. So you just go Mfon Okpan on LinkedIn, just type in my name. You'll find I'm in Tulsa uh metropolitan area. I would say that would be the best way to reach out to me. If you do have any questions, want to chat, connect, I'm always happy to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Thank you, M Fon. It has been an absolute pleasure and an honor to have you here today. I wish you all the best out there in Tulsa and thank you again for what you're doing for our students.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

I appreciate it, Laura. It's great, great being here, and uh I appreciate the opportunity to share on your platform.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the I Am Wiser Podcast, where each episode brings us closer to a wiser, more human approach to healthcare. If today's conversation inspired you or sparked new ideas, share it with someone who's ready to rethink healthcare. And if you have a story or innovation that could light the way for others, reach out. We'd love to hear from you. This space is yours too. Don't forget to follow, rate, and review us on your favorite platform. Until next time, stay curious, stay courageous, and stay wiser.