Episode 18 - Beth Miller: Betrayal Trauma Toolbox

Welcoming back Beth Miller to do a deeper dive into healing after infidelity: releasing stigma, reframing forgiveness as something you do for yourself, and finding your self-worth again so you can decide whether you stay or leave from a grounded place. We also cover support systems, including close friendships, counseling, support groups, and modalities like hypnotherapy for intrusive thoughts and rumination. If you want a steadier path forward, hit play, then subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more women can find this conversation.

Beth Miller is a Marriage Coach, Certified Hypnotist, and Founder of the Soulify Marriage Saver Program.

She has guided hundreds of women through the devastation of infidelity, helping those desperate to save their marriage end ruminating thoughts and rebuild trust.

Beth is an expert in working with the subconscious mind, blending psychology and neuroscience into her unique approach. One of her signature tools is Soulify Hypnosis Thought Transformation (pre-recorded hypnosis tracks)—a powerful, deep meditation often described as “meditation on steroids.”

These hypnosis tracks help release and reprogram past traumas and stuck emotions, freeing women from unhealthy patterns in their lives and marriages.

https://soulifywellness.com/
https://www.instagram.com/soulifywellness/
https://www.facebook.com/soulifywellness
www.freemarriageguide.com

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Topic Matters

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi everyone. Welcome back to HYp Talks. I'm your host, Katherine Hinchey. I am really excited today to welcome back Beth Miller. Beth was originally on episode five, so you can go back and listen to the first episode where she was on. And today I'm excited to have her back. Beth is with Soulify Wellness. I'm excited to have her back to discuss and dig a little bit deeper into healing after infidelity and the work that she does working with women who have dealt with infidelity. Beth, thank you for coming back. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Speaker 0:33

Oh, Kat, thanks for having me. I am so excited to be back as well.

Speaker 1 0:38

Good. We kind of touched on the surface of the work that you do at Soulify Wellness last time. And I just I thought that our listeners would really how does this work? How do you help these women through this really just life-altering time, right? Um, so I've got some questions I just wanted to chat with you about, and you know, we can just have a conversation. But you find out that you have been uh cheated on or that there has been an infidelity. So, what information is important for the betrayed spouse to know and to confirm? And what is really best to never know?

Speaker 1:21

That's a great question. And I believe it's extremely individual. And actually, it can be dependent upon where you're at in the frame of the finding out about the affair in the timeline of discovery to months or years down the road. I think wherever you're at in this, I think make a list of all the questions you have. And then once you make a list of all the questions you have, you can then go through that list and you can decide which ones do I need to know for my healing today? And it's really important to add that word today in there because you might want to know the answers to how many times have they had sex? Where have they had sex? But that might not help your healing today. In fact, it may spiral you and make things actually worse. So I think it's day by day, even month by month, is creating the list of questions you want, analyzing that list to figure out what do I need to know for my healing today? And then the thing is when you go to ask the question, do you already have an answer in mind? Like, have you found information? So you're looking for a particular answer. The other question to ask yourself is, will I believe his answer? And the other one is, will I want to ask this answer or ask this question again until I get the

What To Ask And What To Skip

Speaker 2:35

answer I want? So there's multiple things to consider before asking questions to get the information you think you might need or actually may hurt you. Because there's often going to be healing with that disclosure of information.

Speaker 1 2:50

What about when you are in just that heat of emotion and you're spiraling? What do you suggest to these women to help them to make those pauses, to make the list, to not just go forward out of, you know, adrenaline?

Speaker 3:09

Yeah, you great, you bring up a good point there when you say the word adrenaline. Often that comes in when your heart rate's over, say, 90 to 100 beats per minute. When it starts getting up higher than that, you're getting into levels where adrenaline's pumping or cortisol, the stress hormones coming in. And that means you're flooded. So you're having neurochemicals and hormones in your body that are going to flood you. So you can't make great decisions. And so in those moments, it has to be a pause. I need to go self-reflect. I need to go take a timeout with myself. I don't love the word adult timeout, but I just need a break. I need to get myself grounded before I say or do something I don't want to. And so it's really having awareness of your own body and your body's cues to say, hey, I need a break. I can't go into this conversation right now.

Speaker 1 3:51

And it's almost like, well, the information's always going to be there. So I don't have to have it right this second, right? I like that.

Speaker 3:59

So how does a woman trust her husband after he cheats a second time? That's a great question. And it does happen. There are high repeat incidents of betrayal. And those stats, I don't, I don't, I don't know what they are off the. Do you know what they are, Kat, off the top of your head? I don't. I don't either. I I have had them. They're just not there. So anyway, Google them, go for it if that's what you'd like to write now. But the one thing those stats don't take into consideration

Flooded Nervous System And The Pause

Speaker 4:25

is what are the interventions that have taken place? Has the wife sought out any support? Has the husband sought out any individual support to get to the root of why he's been engaged in those either addictive behaviors or needing validation or why he's had possibly a sex addiction? Has any intervention been done? But I think it's important to collect all the data. Like what is the picture today? So if he cheats a second time, what are you seeing in your husband? Does he seem I always kind of do this character analysis? Okay, what are the characteristics of my husband today? Is he more empathetic right now today? Is he apologizing? Is he remorseful? Am I seeing certain characteristics? Well, when he cheated the first time, it wasn't there. Or is he still displaying characteristics of the man who cheated the first or the second time? Can you see a shift in him? Is there anything that's different there that

Trust After A Second Betrayal

Speaker 5:15

allows your nervous system to be like, okay, he's not exactly the same person? And do I want to give this a chance? I always say you got to be in or you're out. It's like I choose my marriage or I don't choose my marriage. So even if he did cheat a second time, if you're not ready to end it because you don't have enough information yet or you don't feel grounded enough in your own nervous system, then you need to pause and say, okay, I'm gonna put a timeline on this. Say Sunday. I'm gonna look at Sunday, I'm gonna analyze, am I gonna stay in this marriage or I'm not gonna stay in this marriage? And often there's some great narratives that you can use as a wife. You can say something like, even though I can't trust my husband, I'm still choosing my marriage. It's not I'm choosing to stay married or I'm just I'm choosing my marriage today. And just that's my narrative today. So that otherwise you start flopping back and forth, worrying about the future. But I choose my marriage until I feel calmer and more grounded to make the decision.

Speaker 1 6:09

That's great. And again, once again, you bring up that word pause, which I think is, you know, so important to really have your nervous system, you know, under control before you make any kind of big decisions like that. Is there anything too that saying once a cheater, always a cheater? Or is it just again, case by case?

Speaker 6:32

Oh, it is true. Like there's some aspects to it. Like once a cheater, not always a cheater, but there is definitely reoccurrences. And there is when it becomes a lot of times, there is addiction there. And addiction can be a lifelong battle. And so there is a chance of reoccurrence. So definitely take the word always out of it, but once a cheater, there's a chance he can cheat again. And there's also a chance he's not gonna cheat again. There's the flip of both. And you won't have that crystal ball with your husband. You don't know, but what you can do is start to listen to your intuition. Is it feeling safe? If it's not feeling safe, what do you need to feel safe in the relationship? And is it you need more disclosure or you need more access to his phone? What is it that you need in that relationship so that you can heal? Do you need to go do an intensive? Do you need to do more individual therapy to get to the roots of why those behaviors were happening? Yeah. So was a cheater always a cheater? I would get rid of the word always, but possibly can be a cheater again without the correct intervention.

Speaker 1 7:30

Is it ever really a good idea to speak to the affair partner directly?

Speaker 7:35

That's a great question. And I always say, what's the first thing? The first thing is, what do I actually want from her? So if you're gonna go talk to her, what do you want for regard? Do you want an apology? Do you want more data? Do you need to hear her side of the story in regards to things he shared with you? Is it lining up with her story? And if she doesn't respond the way you want her to, what does that mean? Are you gonna be okay with that? So you need to go into that conversation. If you are going to talk to her, then knowing that if she shares nothing, I'm okay. If she shares everything, I'm prepared for those details. And so that brings up the next point. If you get too many details, are you okay with that? Like if I learn more details about their physical intimacy, can I actually handle it? And so that's another question. So there's a bunch of questions you really need to ask yourself before you go into it. What will it cost you emotionally if you have that conversation? Will you believe her over him? So getting yourself in a place that you're collecting data is probably the best way to do it. So that's like, okay, this is just more information. But then how am I going to sift through her truth versus his truth if they aren't lining up? And sometimes women have this concern of what if this

Should You Contact The Affair Partner

Speaker 8:50

reignites something? What if I'm playing with fire if I reach out to her? What if it reignites a connection between my husband and her? What if there's a spiral effect, especially if there's kids in the community, that this then starts to impact my kids? Like, because a lot of times the affair partner might not even know that the wife knows. And I think a big question too is will talking to the affair partner potentially make the marriage worse? Should you even talk to her? This isn't about her anymore. This is really about you and your husband. Do you even need to involve her and bring that energy back into your marriage? So those are some questions that you could definitely ask yourself. Um, one other one might be like, how is this gonna heal me, like fix me? It's kind of that first question, like, what am I hoping to get out of this? But is there actually a benefit to you? Can this actually help you in your inside situation, your emotions on the inside?

Speaker 1 9:38

And on the flip side of that, because often women are unaware of an affair going on and the affair partner reaches out to them to disclose. And so for people who are, you know, potentially listening who that that might happen to, what do you recommend that that happens?

Speaker 9:57

Oh, if the affair partner reaches out to you, that's a really difficult situation. I think in that your body kind of goes into a survival mode. It's like very surreal. Is this even happening, almost out of body at times? And so it's really hard to control that because you are probably in a state of kind of fight, flight freeze when you get that information because it's so shocking. It's almost like watching a car accident. You're like, is this actually happening in front of me? So very hard to control your body's reaction until you're out of that. But I think at that point, it's hearing out the information and whatever you do here, then deciding, do I take this to my husband right now? Um, some women wait. They don't want to tell their husband right away the information they know. They sit with it sometimes for months. Um, but it's I would then seek out an individual counselor, someone that can help you process that information or figure out your next step. And okay. Or a hypnotherapist or some sort of trusted friend that can help you with that information.

Speaker 1 10:53

And so, you know, for the women who do forgive their cheating husbands, like what does that say about you?

Speaker 11:01

It says absolutely nothing about their worth. It says nothing about their uh attractiveness or that they're weak or they're a fool. It says nothing like that. If anything, it says that they're

When The Affair Partner Reaches Out

Speaker 11:15

courageous for like if it's a forgiving, it's courageous because you're letting go. Like forgiveness is the last step in healing all of this. And it's not easy. And forgiving is for you, not for them, for the partner or the affair partner or your husband. It's a letting go that I'm like, I'm freeing myself of the pain of this past event. And so you're forgiving and letting go so that you can move forward, that you're not constantly living in the past or you're ruminating or replaying scenarios, or you're thinking to the future of what if worst case scenario, you're letting yourself be present. So I think it's very encouraged to forgive. Um, I think it shows a lot of love for yourself to be able to forgive. I think it's because there's so much, again, like you talked about once a cheater, always a cheater. It's like women who forgive are weak. Women who stay are a fool. It's society. I don't know where this came from, but I know part of

Forgiveness Without Self Blame

Speaker 12:10

it was in me at one point too. I used to think that as well. And I don't know if it's something we learn as teenage girls somewhere that if your boyfriend cheats on you, you're weak if you stay. But when it comes to a marriage, it's completely different. Because a lot of times there's for better, for worse. And if it is an illness, a sickness, an addiction, there it definitely can be difficult to try and figure out do you want to stay or not stay because you took those vows to be with them in sickness and health. So yeah, those are my thoughts on that, Kat.

Speaker 1 12:38

Yeah, I agree. I mean, think about, you know, even like when the Clintons, when Hillary decided to stay with Bill Clinton after that very public affair and just the vitriol against her. I mean, so much hatred. And meanwhile, he was just blah blah, you know. It's really interesting about why that stigma is. And it's unfortunate.

Speaker 13:09

Yeah, it is. And we have it as women against other women, and we often have it within ourselves. And when I work with women, they're often judging themselves. They think they're weak. They think they're a fool for staying. And so it's getting to the bottom of that often what I would call like there's ingrained beliefs and there's limiting beliefs. Ingrained often comes from society, from education, from religion, from politics. It's usually these societal beliefs that we adopt, ingrained. And we pick them up at such a young age. We don't, they just we're like sponges under the age of eight, and they just kind of become a part of us. Like, don't have sex before marriage. That might be one that comes from the church. Like it just it becomes somehow you pick that up. And then for some women, they feel very guilty if they are what they would call then promiscuous before they get married. But there's these beliefs that we have versus limiting beliefs are ones that we place on ourselves. Like, I'm not enough. I'm not good enough. I can't speak up for myself.

Speaker 1 14:03

All right. So switching gears a little bit, should children know about an affair?

Speaker 14:09

Depends on the age of the child. I think it's always about finding language that's appropriate. So if it's young children, it might just be well me and daddy are having some disagreements or we've been fighting, but it's always about showing your kids the repair, that it's okay to have healthy conflict, but you need to repair that conflict. I do have a lot of clients that have adult children and they do tell their adult children those details. And it's really case by case that a lot of women don't want to tell their children because they don't want to tarnish their husband's reputation, whether that be within the community, within his workplace, within the family. Because people like you are you and I were just saying, like this is turning into a kind of society conversation. Like people judge people who cheat. And what happens is when your community or your family, like children, sisters, brothers, like aunts, uncles, they don't see what's happening between you and your husband. What can happen is they they don't get the same healing as well. Like they don't see like the talks that you're having or the conversations you're having. They don't see that he's changing. They kind of get kind of stuck in thinking that he's a teeter or he's a bad person. And the logic, they grieve too. They grieve the person they

Should Kids Or Family Know

Speaker 15:20

thought that man was as an adult child, too. They could they grieve who their father was. It can change who they think their dad is. So it's a really tricky thing between balancing for a lot of wives, feeling alone, or I should say lonely, lonely as a lack of connection. Alone means you're physically not with anyone in the home. But when you feel lonely, it's because you're not sharing these details of the betrayal with others. And when you're not sharing that, it can make you feel lonely. So do you need that connectedness? Do you need other people to know, like your children or adult children or family around? Or is it better to keep it between you and your husband, which seems really messed up because the person who hurt you so bad is the one person you're trying to deal with?

Speaker 1 15:59

I always say for women who are going through not just um infidelity, but going through anything, I always say, you know, where are your girlfriends? And if you don't have a bunch of girlfriends, which number one, I would encourage you to build those relationships and to nurture them because they're so important, but a best friend, you know, somebody that you can can talk to because that I think that puts a lot of pressure on you to like not only heal you, heal the marriage, heal your husband, heal everything. And it's just, you know, it's it can be overwhelming and too much.

Speaker 16:41

Yeah, absolutely. Where are your girlfriends? It's so important to have some good girlfriends. I agree with you on that.

Speaker 1 16:46

And you know, studies show that women that have girlfriends live longer, happier, healthier lives.

Speaker 16:54

Absolutely, because you're laughing, right? When you get together with your girlfriends, it feels like you just you picked off, even if it's been months, it feels like you just saw them yesterday and you're just laughing and so good.

Speaker 1 17:05

Yeah, and it's really one of those super unconditional relationships that you like, even co-workers or other people, other moms in the group, you know, there are conditions to those relationships. But with your girlfriends, you've seen, you've seen it all and you love them, you know, and you you're always cheering for them. So having that kind of support. All right. So this next one could be a little controversial, but I'm I'd love to know your opinion about how much responsibility lies on the betrayed spouse, especially if their husband refuses to do their own personal growth work.

Speaker 17:44

Yeah, this is like the foundation of my business because originally when it started, it was for women who whose husbands wouldn't do the work. They didn't want to go to therapy for their own, the own stigmas, right? Whether men don't need to talk about their feelings or I can handle this, or some husbands have their own what I call therapy trauma. Like they've seen a therapist in the past who actually can made things worse. And so they just don't want to go back. So it's very difficult at times because you can't make your husband go, but it feels like that's the only thing that's gonna fix the marriage. So it's like, what do you do in this situation? If we say the marriage is A, which is you, plus B is your husband, C equals your marriage, how do you change that equation if he won't go to therapy, which means you both can't go to therapy? Well, you have to change. And this is when you can when you show up differently. And I don't want anyone to get in a place where they're like, if I just try harder or if I just love better, he'll change. That's not always the case. But it's always good to give it the best try you can to work through anything you're holding on to. If you're feeling like I'm not enough or I can't trust myself, or not listening to my intuition, or I'm not speaking up, or I'm scared of conflict, or I'm a people pleaser, or I'm feeling not lovable. If there's any of those beliefs that you have within yourself, even a little bit, by improving those, you're gonna change yourself and you're part of the equation. All of a sudden, your little A is now a big A, which means your relationship's gonna have a different outcome too, even if he's not changing because you're showing up differently. And sometimes your change in a marriage can be the catalyst he needs to change. So who's gonna be the catalyst in the marriage for change? If it's not him, then you have to give it your role. And women are often action takers because we feel so deeply. And we're really good at multitasking, which means we can feel our feelings a lot and still keep functioning. Well, men seem to be able to compartmentalize more and can push feelings aside and then dysfunction with their work. Women, we we feel it all all the time. Uh so yeah, I say wives, like you, the responsibility is to heal to the degree that you feel like you've become yourself and you are yourself. And when you feel like yourself again, you will be able to get the clarity to stay in your marriage or go. And maybe you'll get to a point where you've been working on yourself where you're like, I am enough. I'm speaking up for myself more, I'm asking for help. He's not helping. And you know it is time for me to look at exiting the marriage. Or you get to a place where your husband will still start showing up too, and he starts having these little changes and he starts opening up more. So I think the responsibility is definitely do you feel you are enough? Do you feel lovable and asking yourself those questions? And if you are all those, then you're in good place. But most women have definitely some areas to improve upon in those areas, and then they can often change their marriage too.

Speaker 1 20:22

You know, I've had a number of clients talk to me about that wow, now that they've been working on themselves and that they have been sort of working on their own self-esteem and self-compassion, that the relationship suddenly is deeper with their husband than it ever was before. The talks are

If He Refuses Therapy What Now

Speaker 1 20:45

are longer and closer. And, you know, there's more recognition that, oh, you know, it wasn't so great before. You know, we were kind of like roommates. I guess like any relationship, and for anybody who hasn't even gone through infidelity, just to know, like you gotta choose this every day, show up every day, choose this relationship.

Speaker 21:06

Yeah, absolutely. Definitely I choose the relationship until I get a clear sign within me. Usually it comes from your intuition that I have done everything I possibly can and I'm the peace if this ended. And it usually comes as a fairly clear message. And then you'll have another voice that comes in, usually fear being like, well, don't give up yet. But but that intuition is very strong in that state that I've done what I needed to do and I'm proud of myself and I can look at my kids and that I know I've done everything I possibly can in this relationship. But I do have many clients who say their relationship is better now after his affair. They could see how they both were not authentically operating in their world. Like husband was people pleasing, trying to get external validation while the wife was also maybe people pleasing or not speaking up or didn't feel enough in her relationship or scared of conflict.

Speaker 1 21:52

I mean, that brings up a good point. And you touched on it just a little bit, but can you clarify at what point do you? Do you give up on the marriage? At what point do you walk away?

Speaker 22:03

Yeah, that's a really, really difficult, difficult decision to make. And often you've probably been thinking about divorce for days and weeks and months on and off, thinking, why do I stay? Why do I stay? I should just go already. Like, you usually isn't just a day that you're like, today's a day, I feel like I'm gonna get divorced. You've been thinking about it for a long time. And I always like a good old like pros and cons list too. Like, should I stay? Should I not stay? That's one way of weighing it out. I always tell clients too, because there's often so much fear that's blocking you from actually going. It's like, have you cleared out all the fear? Do you truly believe if you were to end this marriage that you'll be okay? They're like, Yeah, I will be okay. Are you scared financially? Nope, I'm not, I know I'll be okay. Like, get rid of any fear that could be possibly blocking this decision to stay or go. And then you'll have the clarity. A lot of it comes down to worth. And it's typically, you know what, I'm worth better. My worth is in a place where I know I deserve a man or a partner that will love me back specifically, that'll be honest with me. Like, there's usually some sort of flaw in their partner where they're like, no, I'm worthy of more. And that's when you get the telltale sign that it's time to go.

Speaker 1 23:12

You know, that makes me think about so many of these instances of infidelity, as you touched on before, is about addiction, whether it's a sexual addiction or a substance addiction. And um and that can be really complicated because you did marry for sickness and in health, right? And it's like here's this person that if they'd been in an accident and they're in the hospital in traction, you would never leave them. You would do everything for them. Well, they're sort of in a mental traction, so to speak. But sometimes it's just unhealthy for yourself to stay in that. And it's almost like putting that oxygen mask on yourself before you can help others. But but sometimes putting that oxygen mask on yourself means getting away from that addiction. What are your thoughts about that?

Speaker 24:09

Addiction, he definitely 100% needs to do the work. Like I know a moment ago we said, like, if he won't take responsibility for his healing, the betrayer won't. If there's addiction, it has to happen. Otherwise, the marriage is going to continue to struggle because there's definitely big underlying issues where a wife can't just be the catalyst for change in that word. Her law of attraction, kind of law of vibration, by raising her vibration, she's gonna raise his. No, he's got deeper seated. So in those situations, a husband needs to seek out AA, a sex addiction counselor, someone, I have no therapist that's going to get to the bottom of why those behaviors are happening so they can change so the marriage can have some success. But often in that situation, if you're safe, like you're not being, there's no abuse, if you need to stay in that relationship until you get the clarity to go, be because often it can be very triggering in those situations. So by working and staying in that marriage and working on yourself, you'll constantly be triggered and you'll get a lot of growth out of it until you get the message that it's time to go.

Speaker 1 25:08

All right. So going back to the beginning then, what are there signs to look for to know if your spouse is cheating?

Speaker 25:15

Yeah, there's usually three big ones. Like the first one is any kind of like secrecy. So digital secrecy is one. Like, how is it changing the passwords? Are you finding that the phone is off more or upside down, like face down? In other words, behavioral, like emotionally, like you find that well, there that's another one, actually. Digital behavioral and emotional. So emotionally, is he more distant with you? You're not noticing that connection. He's pulling away. Emotionally, is he more angry or sad? Like there's just a an and a difference there. And then behavioral is more like coming home from work at different times or schedule changes or personal grooming. There's a lot more of that happening, or a lot less of that happening. Like, I think looking for the digital, behavioral, and emotional secrecy or changes is a big one. And then you could definitely get more specific and just if you start noticing, I guess within all those, like if you wanted to go down the rabbit hole looking up his digital behavior, like delete it. Is he deleting messages? Is he uh deleting his history, um, his computer, his phone, then those would all be signs that there's potential secrecy happening.

Speaker 1 26:24

And then what

Signs Of Cheating And First Conversation

Speaker 1 26:25

do you recommend when you have those signs? Say that you have like one or all three of those signs.

Speaker 26:34

Yeah, it can be very scary because your mind's going to all the places. So whether he's struggling with depression because maybe there's been a loss of a family member, there's a job loss or a health change, or your mind might be going to a place of, oh, is he cheating on me? So your mind is going in all places, and sometimes we don't want the truth, but it's having the courage to have that first conversation. And it's simply so as like, it might be like, hun, I've just noticed some changes in you recently. Did you have time to have a conversation? Is now a good time? If not, can we chat about it later tonight? And it's just simply saying, like, from a place of love, I've noticed that you seem more angry lately. I feel like we're not connecting as much lately, or I've noticed that you're coming home later. And my head goes to the worst case scenario. It goes to that you're having an affair or you're doing things that you're not sharing. Can you tell me what's yeah? And then from there, I guess we have to kind of figure out what the specific is. But are you feeling this too? Like when it comes to the emotions, like are you feeling more angry too? Are you feeling the disconnect with us too? So kind of looking for that verification. Or if he is behavioral, then it's asking, what have you been doing in those situations? But then they might lie, and that's the trick. I was just thinking that.

Speaker 1 27:46

I was just thinking that I don't know very many instances where the confronted party just goes, Oh, you got me.

Speaker 27:55

Yeah, the odd time, like it's happened a few times, but uh, they're almost thankful. They're like, Oh my like, uh yeah, I've been wanting to tell you this, and they they say it, but usually then it comes out trickle too. So you get like a little piece of the whole picture in that moment, and that might be the start of the it cracking and opening up. So it's scary. It's a scary conversation to have because you don't know what you're going to find, and often it's not the full truth the first time.

Speaker 1 28:18

You mentioned that word or that term trickle truth, which is really apt in this type of situation. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Speaker 28:29

Yeah, trickle truth. So just imagine you were to look at a whole picture. The picture is him kissing another woman. So you might just get a picture of his hand on her shoulder. So she might just be sharing, oh yeah, I just put my hand on her shoulder. That's all we've done. And then a little bit later on, you might be like, Oh, I did kiss her, I packed her. And then, oh, now I can see behind that they were at these different restaurants. Like it's like you're getting pieces of the picture, but not the whole thing. And it comes in in little bits instead of him just painting the whole picture of the affair and of all the incidents. It's like everything just comes in so slowly. And usually it comes from, I told you everything. I you I've shared everything, you know it all. But then the wife might find more information and then she has to pull that out above, and then she gets a little bit more and a little bit more. And this is where it gets so traumatizing because your body's just bracing them for more information and more information, more hurt, more pain. Like a good way of putting it, I'm trying to think how I want to word it is it's really that your body is like that fight, flight, freeze. Your body's not protecting itself from physical pain, like the lion's gonna attack you. But we all know that when your heart hurts and when you get really sad news or painful news, like your heart hurts. And so you can start to guard and try to protect yourself from having more information. And so you're

Trickle Truth And Why They Lie

Speaker 29:45

just bracing for that all the time, is that my heart's gonna get hurt. And then energetically, I know in the work you do too, Kat, like we can actually feel like women have built walls around their heart to try and protect themselves from those trickle truths.

Speaker 1 29:57

Trickle truths are just awful. And I don't just I I just don't understand why maybe you could shed some light into why the betrayer handles it that way.

Speaker 30:11

Shame. Yeah, often it's shame. No, you nailed it. It usually quite often comes from shame. And shame is I am a bad person. Guilt is I did bad things. And so there's usually shame, but also fear. It may not feel like it, that they're probably really scared. They're scared of losing the relationship. They might also be scared of conflict or emotional intensity, and they might get overwhelmed by that. And then you might see them either shut down or go to offensiveness, is what they go to. So it doesn't really seem like they're scared. They're just shutting down or getting really angry. They might fear vulnerability and actually being open. They may be trying to, like there could be fear of the truth being told. So then their ego is then it crushes their ego. So fear of judgment by you, because they know that they're a bad person, they just don't want others to judge. So there's a lot of fear, a lot of shame. And that's often why they're lying, because they're trying to protect themselves from feeling those feelings.

Speaker 1 31:05

So often I hear that the explanation given is that they just didn't remember. Do you think that that's ever possibly true? That they didn't really remember all these details. And maybe they're so important to the woman, but to the man, they're not that important, or is that just another cover?

Speaker 31:24

Yeah, it's a great question. And especially with like hypnotherapy, suggesting what the brain can try and like we can change our narratives. And I think that's part of it is that they may not remember because they told themselves a different story. Like maybe they're like, that she's just a coworker. We're just having lunch, or we're just hanging out, she's just easy to talk to, but he's not telling himself telling himself that I do have feelings for her. I do really enjoy this time with her. And so it might just be more about the narrative he shares with himself. And that's why he doesn't remember because he wasn't letting himself feel or hear the other part, like the truthful parts of the story. That he did enjoy that contact. He did enjoy the connection.

Speaker 1 32:06

And honestly, these women who have been through infidelity, they become like the best detectives. I swear I would want them solving my murder because they get this information and they put together such a tight timeline of facts and information that, you know, maybe the person living it doesn't actually like you don't live your life in that, in that way of holding all the facts and data in a timeline like that.

Speaker 32:37

Absolutely, yes. It's a way of protecting yourself. And so try and find all that data and try and put the pieces together. Because often we, if we understand why something happens, if I know why my car broke down, oh, it's because I keep driving over a nail. Oh, I'm gonna stop driving over a nail so I don't get the flat tire. So if a wife knows why her husband did this, so if I can collect all this data and try and figure out why, then I can make sure it's not gonna happen again and then I'm safe and my heart can then truly trust and love them again. But when we feel like we don't understand why they did it, then we don't feel safe.

Speaker 1 33:09

This is one that I know that there's no real data or anything, but I thought it would be fun to just talk about like, do we, as hypnotherapists, do we subconsciously attract cheaters to be our partners?

Speaker 33:24

Yeah, I get asked this a lot. Like, am I attracting cheaters? Like, I don't need a wife, just like every relationship I've had has cheated on me. My high school boyfriend, my college boyfriend, my first husband, now my second husband. Like, I feel like this is a me problem. And I always say it's not about you. It's not that you're not enough, you're not attracted, you're doing something wrong. But there is something within you that obviously needs to let go of that low self or that thinks that you're attracting a cheater into your life. Um, unfortunately, about 25% of women will endure some sort of betrayal in their life. And so that's one in four women. So there is a high chance that someone will be betrayed and cheated on at some point. And you followed that statistic, unfortunately, multiple times.

Speaker 1 34:06

That's interesting because I think about, I never want to say that, oh, we deserve anything, but I do think that sometimes we bring about our own pain for lessons, for life lessons for this life, right? So you keep learning the same lesson until you really do understand I am worthy. I deserve to be cherished and loved and held and, you know, not cheated on, right?

Do You Attract Cheaters

Speaker 1 34:35

And that if you haven't learned that yet lesson yet, you are sort of, well, let me test it out somehow. Let me see, you know, if this is gonna happen. I don't know. What do you think about that?

Speaker 34:48

Yeah, I hear that in theory. Like it kind of makes sense the idea that if you don't feel like you're enough, then kind of universe or God will keep putting the same, like, all right, let's do it again. You didn't get the lesson. But I'm wondering if that was the lesson to be learned each time, or maybe with each betrayal of a different lesson. Like maybe the first one was really speaking up for yourself and getting out of a toxic abusive relationship. Maybe I learned that lesson. And then maybe that's the next one, it was, I you never know, it could be something different. But definitely, I think all our relationships are here for us. Like there's lessons to learn in that relationship for both of you. If we want to go to kind of karmic levels, like there is there's a reason why the two souls have come together. And often they'll say those souls were together in other lifetimes and they just have things they need to continue to work through in this lifetime. And that's typically like if you want to say soul-wise, that's why they would be together. And there's another lesson here. But I I do hear that. I hear that there's a law of attraction, regardless. You need to get yourself in a higher vibe to get yourself out of that relationship. And then, but a lot of times women are so blindsided, like you would never have seen it coming. It wasn't like you were settling in low self-worth either. It just you were truly blindsided. And so that that cheating came in for a different reason. Maybe it's to learn love, compassion of someone you love through sickness and health. But there is definitely a lesson to learn in each.

Speaker 1 36:09

It's like I wonder if there's a way to stop that stigma against women. Because there really is that you're protecting your your husband's reputation. But also we carry the shame of the you know, the betrayer. And if there's a way to sort of, you know, I don't know, like it's not something that we talk to our daughters about, right? Or or sons, even, right? And and how to stop that that cycle, because I don't know, for through clients, I've just I've seen so many different situations and reasons and times of life and timings of and it's and it is always so painful, and it is always that shame. You know, that's careful.

Speaker 37:07

I just feel like if everyone could love more, if we could all just be more compassionate, loving human beings. That was like the message I just got was like, as the universe, as a world, as children of God, and whatever your belief system is, that like love, like if we love each other and accept each other, then people won't judge each other. They'll see each other's pain and sit with each other's pain and help each other through this and not judge. Yeah. Yeah. You all need less judgment. And I think a lot of times if you are triggered by someone else's betrayal story, like you're judging

Judgment Culture And Unforgivable Lines

Speaker 37:35

them, it probably means there's some healing for you too that needs to happen on some level, whether you've endured it or whether it happened to your parents, or whether there's there's some sort of pain there. Like if you feel anger or hurt or towards others, it probably means there's inner work for you.

Speaker 1 37:50

Do you think because I mean, I know you've probably heard every story imaginable. Do you think there are ones that are just are ever unforgivable?

Speaker 38:01

Unforgivable. I always say forgiveness is for ourselves. Like a wife has to forgive to be able to let go. It's a letting go to me, is what forgiveness is. Forgiveness isn't it's okay what you did. A forgiveness is I let go of that from the past. I'm not holding on to it anymore. I'm not, I'm no longer prison imprisoned by it. So I think everything needs forgiveness at some point so that you can truly heal and move forward.

Speaker 1 38:26

And do you think that there are some that are worse than others in terms of deciding whether or not to leave the marriage?

Speaker 38:33

Oh, there's definitely some that are extremely complicated, complex years and details and multiple, multiple, multiple betrayals. So there's definitely many layers to some, like so many layers that just it just feels messier to sort through, but it's pain that's there that has to be moved through. And then once you move through that pain, you'll get the clarity. Do I stay? Do I go?

Speaker 1 38:55

Great. So what do you want to say to anyone who is dealing with this and is alone in dealing with this, listening right now?

Speaker 39:06

Oh, I would say seek out cat, seek out myself. Like hypnotherapy is one of the, I truly think is the number one way to heal from betrayal trauma. I think EMDR is similar, but not as effective or as fast as hypnotherapy is phenomenal at getting to the ruminating thoughts, the images, the deep-seated emotions that are so ingrained in your body. Because a lot of times when you're having ruminating thoughts, you're thinking it every single day. You've created the neural pathway in your brain that keeps thinking that over and over again. And so hypnotherapy is a great way of getting you in that very relaxed uh daydream, like theta brainwave state to really heal from this. So seek out a professional. Betrayal trauma is not something you want to work through on your own. It definitely needs the guidance of a professional.

Speaker 1 39:52

And what do you think about support groups for betrayal trauma?

Speaker 39:57

Yeah, for some people it's extremely effective and others, it's very triggering. So I think you just have to figure out which person you are. Some people feel very lonely in the process and they need that support group that's controlled, like a controlled support group led by a leader that knows what they're doing. And I do offer support groups, but making sure that it's a safe

Hypnotherapy Support Groups And Healing

Speaker 40:15

space where you can share, but also get healing in and it's not making you feeling more triggered.

Speaker 1 40:20

Yeah, because I can imagine hearing other people's stories could be very triggering.

Speaker 40:25

Yes, you just want to make sure you're in a support group that there's a protocol in place if you feel triggered during during that and hearing other stories.

Speaker 1 40:35

Great. And so what do you think is the number one takeaway from going through betrayal trauma?

Speaker 40:44

Number one takeaway for women that go through it. Yeah. I think it's their inner growth, like that they're going to be okay. It's always the message that comes through, like, I am okay, I am enough. And they usually they connect higher, like more to their intuition through the process and usually to a higher power of some sort. They usually feel more connected to God. And often they find their purpose in it too. Like they realize that they've just been moving through life. It's kind of like the shakeup they needed to get themselves back on track. Not that they would ever wish this upon anyone. It's absolute torture.

Speaker 1 41:14

That's so true. I think it's so often any kind of trauma really leads to expanding your spirituality. Yeah. You know, and that growth. Absolutely.

Speaker 41:28

Anything else you want to add or share? Oh, anything else. I think I think it's about finding a toolbox. Like if you're struggling with any of this or any mental health at this point, it's getting a toolbox that has tools in it that you can use to get yourself out of tough moments and tough feels. And so whether it's seeking out cat, doing hypnotherapy or myself in a program, just knowing that you have some sort of style that you can do some journaling in five minutes, or you can you have a quick

Biggest Takeaway And Building A Toolbox

Speaker 42:00

meditation that you found on YouTube or your favorite app that you can do that's 10 minutes long. It's about having a toolbox so that you can work through, because I believe every trigger is here for us. It's some sort of gift. It's trying to tell us something, it's yelling at us, hey, I need attention so I don't keep coming back. So paying attention to those triggers within you, and those are gifts that'll lead you towards and down the path of your healing.

Speaker 1 42:20

And for those who want to seek out the support at Solify Wellness, what is important to know? Like what is that, what, what does that entail?

Speaker 42:29

Yeah, well, if you want to learn more about it, you can book a 15-minute consult call and I can tell you a little bit of hypnotherapy or hypnosis or my 12-week program would be helpful for you. So you can head to my website, solifywellness.com, and you can send us an email. Just go to the contact area, or I'm on social media everywhere. So just send me a DM, whether that's on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and just say uh the word chat. And if you want to chat, then I can book that call for you and complimentary, and we'll see what your biggest struggles are and if I can help you at all. Thank you, Beth.

Speaker 1 43:02

I think that you are just a light for so many women who are really just at the worst period of their life, and your just kindness outshines everything, and you're non judgmental, just you know, so compassionate. And um so I highly recommend, you know, anybody going through this, you know, Beth is a beacon of light.

Speaker 43:33

Thank you, Kat.