What's up, yo? DJ the Clips right here, and you are tuned in to yet another Fat Beast Behind the Counter Podcast episode. And today we are with my man Ninth Wonder in the place, as well as Jada and Saya, who have a new album out called The Zenith, which you can uh cop right now at Fatbeast.com, and we're gonna talk about how those correlate together as Ninth Wonder is the executive producer of the project. So uh we're gonna talk about uh uh a lot of stuff, a lot of history, and um a lot of newness as well. So, Ninth Peace, how you doing? Peace, what's going on with you? Everything's good, good to have you here. Yeah, yeah. Jada, what's up? What's up?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's all good. Saya, what's the deal?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Claire. It's glad to be here, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Glad to have y'all up here. Just so we get it off right off from the beginning. Uh Jada is ninth wonder's daughter, for those that do not know. Yes. Uh, and then uh Saya is the MC of the project that uh they put out, and Jada is has fully produced the album. So the apple does not fall far from the tree, as they say. Uh so uh ninth. Let's just go right into um history, man. Little brother coming out. That was our first time hearing you. First time we met. First time we met, absolutely. And also shout out to uh JD, you know what I'm saying, who uh principals of entertainment who was in the mix a little bit back then, yeah doing some stuff. And uh it was just so refreshing hearing your sound back then, and uh you know it brought in a new wave of not just of artists from from the Carolinas, um, but uh a new style of producing too, I would say, because the Fruity Loops and all that stuff that was that was new to us. Like we hadn't, you know, we're familiar with that. So, you know, talk a little bit about like just you getting becoming a producer and like and how you actually came up with what you wanted to work with.
SPEAKER_04You know, FL, you know, now it's known as FL Studios. So FL Studio was a thing where uh at the time it was known as Fruity Loops, and I was just a broke college kid, man, you know what I mean, in and out of school and and didn't want to pay for MP. You know, that's what that was. Like it was a dude in my dorm that was selling this MP for like three grand. I was like, no, you know what I mean? What is that? And so I went to um at the time I was at NC State University, and that's a big uh engineering school, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, whole lot of whiz kids walking around, and my guy Leroy McDowell, who used to I used to be in a beat team with, he was making beats on computer. And this is like 1998, late 98, early 99. So this is the first time I seen like a wave form. Right, you know what I mean? And so he was he had like his turntables connected to his computer and he recorded and it just be this wave coming on, like, what is going on? Like, what is this? And so that was kind of the beginning of it, and I was using um a program called Hammer at the time, and then that turned into beatbox, and then Fruity Loops was introduced to me from Crisis. Okay, shout out to Crisis, and uh he's like, I'm used to joined called Fruity Loops. It was Crisis and my man uh Patrick Williams, uh known as eccentric, who did the only the the one track I didn't do on the Little Brother album called The Get Up. Right, and um he's like man check out Fruity Loops, check it out. And so I checked it out, I started, you know, messing with it and kind of jumping around sounds, didn't know exactly where I wanted to, you know, my style was. And then I made a B call The Righteous Way to Go, and that kind of just I was like, oh, okay. This is the point kind of unlocked something, you know what I mean? And that was man, that was that was 2001, dog. You know what I mean? And so then we got signed to ABB at the time.
SPEAKER_03And uh Well, let's not jump quick over that because how did you guys, even from North Carolina, connect with ABB who was out in the in the bay?
SPEAKER_04Man, it was a guy in um North Carolina by the name of Bum Rush. Do you know Bum Rush? Yes, yes. You know Bum Rush, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh Shaw Hargett. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he um he first heard the music and he came by uh an apartment I was living in. It was like me and five other dudes standing in a two-bedroom apartment. And so he came and he heard the record and he was like, man, so he turned it on to this dude named Ian Davis, I. D. Yeah. Right, which you probably also know. Yeah. And so I. D was working for ABB at the time. Okay. And so they went from us to Sean Hargett, Bum Rush, to ID to Benny B. Okay. And Benny B was in Oakland, California. Yeah. And first reached out to us and first said he wanted to do a single. Right. But then he's like, nah, uh, Fontaine sent the album. Right. And he was like, oh, okay. I'm taking all this. I'm taking this, I'm taking the whole thing. So um taking, you know, taking the whole album or whatever. And so um, we ended up going out there in the summer of 2002, and I remember us going out there, man, and we opened up for Dilated Peoples in Echo Park. It was crazy. And um, because at the time, I think I think worse comes the worst is out. Yeah, worse comes to worse is out. So they're like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was crazy. And then that was that. And so we ended up on ABB, which led us to Atlantic. Right. Right. Okay. And to get end up on Atlantic to be a group that was kind of pre-internet, meaning we have the internet, but there's no way you can track our fans. Everybody's online with like weird screen names, right? And this is before the idea of a follower started, right? How many followers you got? Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, you have a profile, and now that now it's all kind of analytics on, you know, social media. You can find a place, you can tell you the top cities where your music is playing the most. Right. So we didn't have that. So at Atlantic, they didn't know exactly what to do with us because they can track our fans, you know what I mean? Right. And uh it's funny because when at the time we had one internet person at the time at Atlantic, I'm gonna say her name in a minute. One internet person in Atlantic in 2004, 2005. When I went back to Atlantic after Rhapsody did to Pimper Butterfly to shop to get a bigger deal for her, uh at the time, Julie Greenwald was like, knife, when y'all were here when you was here the first time, we had one internet person. Now we got a staff of 150. And I was like, man, this is what I'm saying. If we had that then, yeah, we had it then. So but the person that we had at the time that was our internet person was Therese Brooklyn, which is crazy. And uh, yeah, this you know, this is kind of how I led. And then, you know, I did a record for Jay because Guru found us on okayplayer.com. And he's like, who did the bees? Who did the bees? And so he was a fan of the group as a whole, yeah. And um, he ended up mixing the menstrual show, as a matter of fact. But the young guru. Yep. And so then it's funny, like where we're staying now in the city is right across the street from baseline. Wow. Which is insane. Wow. I was I looked at the street, I was like, wait a minute. It's right up the street. But yeah, it's it's um that was kind of the journey, and it was Jay and it was Destiny Shot after that. Yeah, obviously. I bet you along the way. Some I don't know how.
SPEAKER_03I don't even remember exactly first when, but it was during those early days. Um 2002, 2003. Somewhere in that range, yes.
SPEAKER_04You might have been at the knitting factory room show that we did. Probably soon Gangstar.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, probably that one. Yeah, you know, uh just a lot of connections over the ways. And um, you know, also I know obviously, you know, you're a huge uh student of hip hop. Um were you also during that time in tune with the indie scene, in addition to what was you know, the mainstream stuff?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was. I mean, we were we were in tune because that's the space we were living in, although we didn't want to be boxed in, it's sure. But at the time, it was like us, it was kind of linguist linguistics, it was it was people under the stairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. Because we're post raucous. Right. Because there's raucous, and then here we come. Yeah. Kev Brown, Odyssey, and all the cat, low budget crew from you know what I mean. It was a whole lot of cats um that was out at the time. Acrobatic from um Boston. From Boston. I can go on, we go on that. Nah, that's good. Just testing, you know what I'm saying? Naming, name and stuff, man. There's a dude named RC that used to rap, man, that Jake one did beats for him. RC was out of Canada. You see what I'm saying? Like, it was so many cats that was out. Yeah. Um I'm knowing leaving a ton of people off. Nah, there is a uh, yeah, but the underground was an abyss, bro.
SPEAKER_03Well, but because it's like you said, like, it's like for the fact of young guru who's working with Jay-Z, but yet seeing what else is out there and being in tune with stuff. So it's always a pleasure when you kind of come across people that like, you know, are on a big platform uh but yet are still in tune to like what's really going on in there.
SPEAKER_04You're not thinking, you know, at that time you remember it was a big rift between underground and commercial. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And for him to be like, it just shattered our whole idea, especially my whole idea of what who's listening to your music, who's checking for it. Yeah, get out of these boxes, because we were like straight, nah, we ain't with the commercial, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And then here comes the commercial. Yeah. And then it's like, wow. But then when you get to the commercial space, they're like, nah, we want you to stay who you are. Exactly. And that kind of like, I'm like, okay, we had this all wrong. Right. We had it all wrong. And so that's where it came from, man. And again, we lived in that space. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fat Beast was a huge part of that.
SPEAKER_03No doubt, for sure. Uh, so now, once you got to that newer space working with Jay, doing threat and all that stuff, uh, did you notice changes in how you had to um not necessarily make your music, but watch what you were making due to all the samples and stuff like that? No, because now I had the I had the opportunity to clear them.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03All right. So you're paying for them then. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Now, you know, just the label was like, he was like, What's the sample? I'm like, okay. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, all right, cool, we got it. I'm like, oh. So even from that, like, my three Destiny Child records were samples. My Mary J. Bly record was a sample. Awesome. Yep. The two Memphis Bleak records, De La Sole Church that I did, Honey that I did for Badu. All these are samples. So they're like, oh, just give us a sample. And I'm like, what? And they incredible. And I was that was amazing to me. And it was that was a time, no, man. And I lived in both spaces because I was doing Jay-Z and Destiny's Child Records, but I was also doing MERS 316 and Buckshot Chemistry. That triple threat duckdown series was a game changer. And I say all the time, like, as excited as I was to meet Jay, one of my heroes was Buckshot, dog. You know what I mean? And so when we did um, when we did chemistry and you know, Smith West did their album, and then Sean Price did his, it was just boot camp click was like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like what? It was an empire. And they drove down to North Carolina to to get with us when we had crisis. Yeah. And Buckshot has gone on record many times saying, man, knife and crisis changed our career back to what it was. Right.
SPEAKER_03I 1000% agree. You know, what the Beatminers did initially with those first albums and set them on a path. And then, you know, after that, I think they start the group started, you know, uh tinkering with other producers and other styles and stuff like that. And um, when you guys did, you know, those three albums, it changed everything, you know. And also it was like the if I'm not mistaken, that was like the launch of Sean's solo career earlier.
SPEAKER_04Like he turned from um he turned from Ruck to Sean P. Yep. And you know, there was a few guys at that time that was doing that, like the rebirth kind of. Yeah, we can obviously we can say MF Doom, of course. Yeah, yeah. Sean P was another one, but another person that I did a record for was Master Ace. Master Ace completely turned his uh career around when he did Long Hot Summer, yeah, and I did Good Old Love for him. Yeah, and it was the coming of this like new idea of what MCing is and the space that they can live in, and Sean P became the front runner of this. Yes, he did, man. Just so anti-everything. But again, commercial knew about him, yeah, but still he just stayed in this space where man, Sean P was God, man.
SPEAKER_03I mean, for us, it was always, you know, we always the indie scene always viewed the music we were making as a continuation of the stuff we loved prior. Absolutely. And the mainstream had changed into a direction that we just couldn't really relate to, which is why that whole you know difference came about. But we always just thought we were, you know, and you guys were perfect, you know, proof of that. It's like the songs you were making were for everybody, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was the feel it was the feeling of the records, man. I think you know, sometimes some parts of the indie scene had like social commentary to it and that type of thing, but other parts didn't. Like Sean Sean P had a different type of social commentary, yeah. You know, it's different. But it was, I think it was more the music the way the music felt. The way the music felt, the type of beats, the type of production, we were just in love with a time period. Yeah, yeah. And slowly when you go to the mid to late 90s, that time period, that feeling was leaving radio. Yeah, yeah. And we were like, man. So we all fled to the underground because of that more than anything else. You can talk about anything you want to talk about, yeah. But it was more of the feeling of the records, it became a little bit more shiny than we wanted it. Correct. No pun intended. Yeah, and all of those things, and here comes raucous. Yeah. And it's like just blows the doors for everything fat beats, stone's throw, yeah, you know, all of these different groove attack. Remember groove attack? Yeah, of course. And you know, all these different places that you can just get music. But I I I would want to know how it would be if streaming was available then. Because we had hip hop sites, yeah, and you know, hip hop site, Shasta Piso, hip hop site. Um in these places where you had to go click on it. Sandbox automatic. Sandbox automatic. You gotta go click on this dirty MP3, and it's the low quality. That's where I first heard. Hip hop site is where I first heard low-class conspiracy by by Quasimodo or Mad Lib. And I first heard Watch Out Now by the Beat Nuts was on hip hop site. Right. And again, it's just you click on it and just wait for it to load, and it was that type of thing. Yeah. But everything got pushed to the underground. And here comes, you know, more commercial sounding music, reaching more people outside of our hip-hop realm. And it was just, we just made it, we drew a line. It was Nelly versus Most Dev. It's like pretty much. Ah, pretty much. We know what I mean. And it was, you know, but then Most Dev started to make records. Yeah. Miss Fat Booty and Willie Say's, and yeah, here come Quali with the blast. Yeah. Here come here come, you know, Mose and Ferr Macho, oh no, and here come Fair Macho Simon Says. So now you got these big sounding underground records that's competing against the big, big, like Ja Rule's. And at one point, Simon Sayers had was a bigger record at one point than Ja Rue had on the radio at one point. And that kind of made the industry say, wait a minute, right? What's going on? And so, you know, and and all the people from the early 90s, not I won't say necessarily attached, but they actually gravitated the q-tips of the world, the comments of the world, the daylights of the world. So now you got Lyric's Lounge, you have Spit Kicker. Yeah. I wish, I wish I was there. I wish I was there to see just this. You know, just think Griselda times 50. Yeah. Like it was, it was like a whole world that you can totally separate yourself from just whatever's on TRL. Right. Or was ever on spring break weekend at MTV, or whatever was on, you know, mainstream radio, Rockers and Spit Kicker, and Lyric's Lounge and Stone's Throw and all of this stuff just took care of all of that folks. Yeah. And we failed after that.
SPEAKER_03We created our our own ecosystem, yeah. You know, um, and I think you know, going back to what you were saying about the majors, I mean, there were several, you know, at that time that had tried to pick up Indiax, you know, like Atlantic with you guys, um, I think it was Capital with Dilated. Yep. Uh, and um, I for it was the Inner Scope with Jurassic. Um, you know, with Black Galicious. The Black Galicious, yeah, MCA. Um, so it was great to see um the growth and and the the recognition, you know, that okay, major labels are checking for the stuff we're doing, but at the same time, it's like you kind of saw that they didn't really know how to work those acts in the system they were used to being in. Being in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So they lived in this mainstream space for so long, they didn't know to go get this kit, whatever. But the yeah, it's funny, the label that figured it out, or whether it would have been by happenstance or whatever, they figured out what to do with Kanye because Kanye was born in our space. Sure, absolutely. He was born in the space where he was in the studio with Dilla, right, and he was with Quali, and he was with Mose, and he was with us, and it was with him. And the space College Dropout is an album where and of course the way he formulated the songs, he had big, big hooks, like hooks means everything. Yes, and he had these big big hooks. And college dropout, like if somebody in that building doesn't push the button, it's just like the listening, or it's just like the unseen. Or it's just like this great sounding album with all these samples that you can't clear. But the fact that they finally caught on to what he was trying to do, correct? He was like the first one to kind of say boop to bring quote unquote sampling back to the forefront. Right um to get that, but he has such a cloth that was us. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Oh, and he and he knew, he knew, like, you know, as arrogant as he he can be, that was him from day one. And it's like I remember him being around everybody, you know, up at labels and stuff like that. And he always had that, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to have my time.
SPEAKER_04And nobody believed in. Yeah, yeah. Nobody believed in Kanye and what he wanted to do and the sound he wanted to bring. And the stuff he wanted to talk about. Oh, you want to talk about you working? Spaceships? What is that? They didn't understand the labels, did not get that, and the label he was attached to. True. You got beans, freeway, J, state property, and here come this dude with a pink polo on, and you're like, I don't get it. Right. And with a with a dropout bear, and they're like, what in the world? So I don't think people truly understand how groundbreaking, right? But still, he was with us though. He came from Quality and Moss and Dylan and everybody, 88 Keys. And man, you can go on. So no ID, Doug. No ID. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a lot of people, man. Yeah. A lot of people from that time. All right, let's step aside from music for a second. Um having kids. When did that happen? Ha. Ha ha ha.
SPEAKER_04Ha. So it's funny because wow. And I don't even think she knows this story. It's funny because I like I said, we stand in the same street as baseline. Right. I went to, that was September 20th, 2003. I went to baseline at night. My wife, her mother, went to um um, see, Fighting Temptation, which is funny. With the Beyoncé's in the movie, right? But I'm in baseline with Beyonce and Jay, which is crazy. And um and it's funny, some people meet Jay at one point and meet Beyoncé separately. I met them together at the first time together. Okay. And so we, you know, I played the beats for him. He said, come back on Monday. I walked from 26th Street to 42nd Street on a natural high. Right. Because my wife was at, and my wife was at um Times Square watching a movie. And we went to back to the hotel room and celebrated. Right. And she is the product of that celebrating. And she does not know that. She never knows, she did not know that story. If she, if you do the math from September 20th, and she was born on June 7th. Okay. Do the math months. Do the math. And it's so funny because I told Jay that story, and he came to um, he came to Raleigh the next year to do a show. He came to do a show, and I don't know what show it was. It might be the Black Album Tour, I'm not sure. But anyway, I went to the show and I gave him a picture of Jada. Wow. And he, you know, he carried, I gave him to his assistant, he was on the stage. I gave him to um at the at the time, his assistant, um, and he put it in his wallet and he carried it around for a while. So I don't think he knows this is the person. Wow. That's the story. Jada is here, ladies and gentlemen. So that's that's you know, at that time we'd already had a daughter. This is our second child, a baby girl. Yep. And um, you know, but at at that time, we, you know, she was born June 7, 2004. And probably eight months, nine months later. Later, uh, the doctors informed us that she was uh had a profound hearing loss. And so that's kind of where our journey started. Um, and she had, you know, I let her tell that story, but still, you know, she was conceived. Right. Thank you, Beyonce and Jay. And Jay told Jay told that story on Raleigh Radio one time. And I was I was listening to the radio, I was like, oh my God. But yeah, man, for real. That's just kind of like um, you know, so it's funny to be here sitting here with her, yeah, doing it, just walking around, seeing her following your footsteps. Oh man, just you know, at a time where I never would have thought any of my kids would do this. Um they've been around it so much. And most kids are like, uh Exactly, yeah. Until, you know, it was one Christmas time around that time, and she was like 13, 14, and she said, I want to line make beats. I'm like, okay. And so, but I had already raised my kids on Dilla and you know, Mad Lib, but also Michael McDonald SOS band. Like I I raised my kids on everything in the car with me. You in the car with daddy, you listen to what daddy listened to. So I remember early on, you know, one of her favorite Dilla Beats was one for ghosts. When I was bad. Like, you know what I mean? She was three, four years old, you know what I mean? Um around that time. So they got it honest, and she just picked up a beat machine when she was 13 and kind of messed with it for a while, put it down, messed with it for a while, put it down, but then got serious about it. Not necessarily serious, though. I thought we would be here. Right, right. But serious enough that I'm listening to beats, I'm like, hmm, okay. Right. Okay. And she came back and you know, how you do this and what's this and that. But she also had the training from listening to not only Daddy, but listening to Dilla. Right. Her favorite producer is Dilla. Okay. And listening to Mad Lib and listening to so many different producers and Pete and all of this stuff. And now I'm having full-fledged conversations with her about production and music and all of this stuff, and and she took it seriously. And here we are.
SPEAKER_03And here we are.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Jada. All right. So I got questions for you. Um, first off, starting with um uh uh you know, the the hearing loss, um how difficult was it for you, you know, following in in a producer's footsteps to deal with that in producing? Like how did it affect, you know, how you heard things and put things together?
SPEAKER_01Um, I wouldn't say it really was hard, to be honest, since I was born with it. It wasn't um something that was just thrown at me out of nowhere. Um it was just a natural thing that had to like pick up, just really picking up ways to hear in other ways. Uh I would say like visually, you know, I read people lips. Um I kind of watch like vibrations, I read the room and kind of predict what people about to say, like different things like that. But really just the production-wise, it's really about the feeling. That's one thing that he taught me that I I guess inherited in a way. But it really just made producing like a lot easier. Right. Just knowing how a go-you echo feels.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But yeah. Okay. And so I mean, obviously you remember those 13, 14 year old years when you hit him up about wanting to really get into it. Right. And and and you know, what was um what made you decide at that point that that's like a uh a road you wanted to go down?
SPEAKER_01Um It was actually a hobby, to be honest. Um I was actually 12 years old when that happened, to be honest. Uh I started doing it, and then that was I was at a peak time of like basketball and basketball equipment, so which is why I like really put it down and kind of put it to the side. But uh I stopped playing basketball. That's when I really picked it back up, seriously. And I met him and Saya. And the rest was really history. He wanted to uh wrap on my beats. That's all I really wanted, just not just having beats, just having somebody wrap on my beats and make good records. And he was the guy for that. So all right.
SPEAKER_03So what's the timeline from you from 12, 13 making beats to meeting Saya? When when did you f first meet him?
SPEAKER_01Um, I met him when I was 20, 21.
SPEAKER_0220, 24, wherever it was.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was 20 years old, so it was like seven eight years, eight years. It was actually eight years, yeah. All right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Alright. And you remember, let's get a little closer too. You remember uh like, you know, what was your first instincts when you when you met her and started knowing that she did beats and hearing them?
SPEAKER_02You know, it's crazy. Like when I first met Jada, I ain't really know she made beats. Like, because it's a whole whole backstory how we met. But forward on to it, it's like when I first heard her first beat, it's actually on the album, but like I heard it, I'm like, this is crazy. I'm like, who is this? So we in the studio, it was like this Jada. So I'm like, Jada made this. That's crazy. So then she sent me like a whole pack of beats, probably like a hundred beats in there. She's like, Let's work. And I'm like, we got to work.
SPEAKER_03Wow. So the first beat you heard is actually on this album, the zenith. That's dope. That's dope. And then uh, as far as you guys putting this record together, um, you know, was there um conversations and and you know, thoughts about exactly what you wanted to relay on this album as far as concepts or even just musically speaking, was there particular beat styles you wanted to try different things? Like what you know, tell us about the the concept of the album.
SPEAKER_02I mean, when we started, it honestly started as like, okay, let's make an album. So then, like, we sitting in the studio and we kind of figuring it out, like as we're making the songs, we're like, okay, this song could fit here. Okay, we need a song that's personal, we need a song that's kind of, you know, has a little bump to it. So we kind of figured it out as we went, and then it all like pieced itself together, like as it was coming together. It was actually a beautiful process for real. Yeah, but yeah, like yeah, that's Monsieur.
SPEAKER_03I got a question too, uh, for you all as well, but your name. Uh, what's the one for in Saya?
SPEAKER_02The one four, it's well, the one is the I, the four is the A, but it's from the uh 14 genealogies of Jesus. So yeah, it's because my name is Messiah, so I was like it tied to it, and it looked cool.
SPEAKER_03Stylistic. Yeah, you know. Yeah, and then Jada, you just you just opted to go with the name. It's Jada. Yeah, um, I didn't have no other uh and so um you know when you're making your tracks, what are you using now when you're when you're producing?
SPEAKER_01Um I'm using the machine MK3. So it's really big beep. It's huge, it's heavy. But uh yeah, when I was making the beats, I was some of the half of the beats on the album. I see like my older beats when I made when I was 12, 13, and the other half was when I made now. Um I was really the biggest thing with really drawing inspirations from like different producers. Um I was like Golden Sound, like I drew that inspiration from Extra Extra by Paula Perry. Um, just I mean, obviously you listen to Boys Tribe to kind of very similar because he wanted a boom back, right? Like really kind of grimy type of beach. So I was like, okay. And then I remember I was talking to my dad about like exactly how to make a boom bat beat. And he was telling me it's not about like really the pace, it's really just like the feeling of it. Like you don't have to have so much soul in it or nothing like that. So um, same thing with like Life is Sweet. I actually drew that inspiration from uh The Man by Rhapsody, um just really having the vocals of somebody just saying something in the hook part and just having enough space for somebody to actually rap on it. Like it's really all about having like a the right space when making beats, we really want to make a record. And then you have beats where it's like a bunch of stuff like on top of each other, and then like stuff is super quantitized. I don't quantize my beats at all, like I really do a body feel.
SPEAKER_03So as long as you don't do them like Rep Matic does them, because his is so off that it makes it impossible when you're DJing and trying to mix them together, it's out there with the beat junkies. Um, but yeah, yeah, the album's great, um, which is another thing. I don't want to say it's a surprise, but you know, when this was first brought to our attention from 9th, and he's like, My daughter makes beats, and it's just like, and we're like, all right, you know, you don't expect for someone that hasn't been out before, that hasn't done anything before, to deliver an album that sounds as well produced and put together, both from uh, you know, vocally and production-wise. And uh we were pleasantly surprised, like, yo, this actually is good to go. You know, it's like so, you know, just enough respect for you guys for the work that you guys put in for your first project. Uh, and obviously, you know, the the the overseeing from from ninth over here. Um now you're also uh let's talk about school real quick. Um yes, you guys also uh you you guys have have a bigger collective uh as well.
SPEAKER_02Collective about like 13 other people, yeah. Including like producers and artists. So yeah, it's a whole group of us. We all met like at the same time almost. Okay, and at night studio.
SPEAKER_03At the studio, okay. That's crazy. All right. And uh and so now, but now you're continuing on with more schooling, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'm in grad school at workforce. Yeah, so yeah, in the business analytics program. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot more school to go.
SPEAKER_03A lot more school. Also, uh uh congrats on becoming a Delta. Thank you. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it changed my life, I would say. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03A lot of good things happen. A lot of good things happening. Sure. Yeah. Uh and I know there's more to come, both from y'all and also uh from the collective. You know, speaking shout out to Henry, speaking to Henry, I know he's told me there's some more music coming. So definitely, you know, looking to hear more stuff. Uh being that you guys, you know, are you still doing school? No. You're done. I mean the uh school of life. School of life, yeah. Good answer. Uh but it's you know, as it's I know it's hard balancing music careers while you're still doing school, but uh, are there plans to do like you know, more stuff in life, you know, shows, touring, stuff like appearances? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. Like that is something that has to happen, and really, I really want to happen because you know it's like it's it's different. Like when you're making the music, like when you're in front of the mic versus like performing it for somebody, for a group of people, it's like a different feel to it. You drawing off of the crowd, it's like a it's a crazy experience.
SPEAKER_03You need that connection. Yeah, I mean, that's one thing, you know, going back to um ninth and little brother, you know, it's like the music was great, but you really heard those personalities shining through the music as well. And then once you put that to you know, videos and shows and seeing the performances, that's when you really cultivate your audience and your fans. So, you know, you definitely the music's there, you guys definitely gotta get the next next part going to get that longevity. Um, yeah, which is which is gonna be great. It's gonna be awesome. Ninth, once a little brother uh dissolved, um I like the way you put that. Dissolved. It it it um I feel like, and I'm an outsider looking in, but like um it feels like the whole scene where you guys were kind of dissolved a little bit with the particular artists that were all extended family because we didn't we didn't really see or hear much from a lot of those guys again after that, you know, like the the Scudders, the Medians, you know, Legacy, like all the uh uh Shandon, you know. We built this Justice League, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Justice League, thank you. Um did that, did Little Brother uh dissolving affect that as well?
SPEAKER_04I mean, it possibly could have. Um, I think, you know, if something like that happens with any particular collective, I think they can kind of like, you know, disband or whatever. But, you know, with LB still doing records, that still gave opportunities to Shondon and Gabe and to Scudder and you know, that thing. And then you still have I think when when we come to doing music, we're in a space we can do music when no matter what level. Sure, of course. Right. And so, you know, Cesar Comanche's still doing, you know, this is like almost 30th year, just doing music and getting it on an independent level. Right. And of Defenders of the Free World. And so that's you know, him doing that, and everybody else in the league, whether they have picked it up, put it back down, picked it up, put it back down. I think the brand of Justice League, um, and for those who're watching, it's not Justice League, the production team, J U S T J U S T A different Justice League, that's right. Um, I think that it carried across the planet. You know, I think if Median decides to do another one, he could. You know what I mean? But you know, I'm I'm 51, and if I'm 51, everybody else is in their 40s, you know what I mean? Like late 40s.
SPEAKER_03So I mean, yeah, but I think it it could have had definitely had an effect on, you know, asking more so because you know you were like the hub for like all of those artists, like you damn near pretty much produced like everything that was coming out at that time.
SPEAKER_04At the time, it was me and Crisis uh eccentric was of Pat Williams. It's funny because Pat Williams's basement flooded and he became a lawyer. He was like, I'm not even doing this no more. And then um my man Leroy called him son of your real. He, you know, he's he got in, he got a he was an electric engineer engineer major, so he got a job. Right, right. And that kind of turned the corner. Dick Big Doe, Big Doe made beats him, shots to Big Doe. He made beats as well, but then he was just like turned into management, you know what I mean? Um could you know, we tell the story, you know, the story's been told about somebody asked us who was our manager, we'd like to turn to him, appointed him. He was like, What? And so, but but he took it on and you know, he he took management on and you know, turned in and became very successful at that. Yeah, um, and crisis. So crisis and I became the main hub of beat source for not only Little Brother, but the Justice League. Yes. And out of that was born the away team, him and Sean Bull. Yes, and um that you know grew out of that or whatever. So, you know, but at the time, we know what we was doing, man. We was young, yeah, and um just putting our music, man, the best way we possibly could, you know, is get it to whoever we can get it to. We just wanted to be heard, sure, of course. We wanted to be heard, and you know, it ended us, you know, it ended up with some of us going to Fat Beats in Los Angeles. You know what I mean? When I I remember when I first walked in there, and I was like, shouts to mishaps.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, shout out to mishaps.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? Like when I first walked in there, man, I was like, man, we had Fat Bees, bro. Like, you know what I mean? That it was to see that on the back of records when we used to get them, and then of us to be a Fat Beast Los Angeles, man, was amazing to us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. All right, let's let's fast forward now. Um Rhapsody, yeah. Rhapsody um, you know, obviously was uh part of uh Cooley High early on, and you know, that was uh another North Carolina uh crew. Um how did it go from you know her being the one to grab to like focus on as like a solo artist?
SPEAKER_04Well, it was I met them all at one time and uh as Saya spoke about it's one thing to have records, but it's another thing to have stage performance. Yeah. And with her, it was opposite. She didn't have the records, but she had the stage show, right? So I'm like, oh, we can get the records match stage show. Right. It's what it is, but you know, shots to her. She she now has our own label now. Yeah. Um, she has a record coming out, you know, and um was the second record, second album coming out on her label. But it we just saw it early, you know what I mean? Okay, but then that turned around again to Ruben Vincent. Like Ruben was like the again, but we caught Ruben when he was 13. And see, the thing about um artists having artists, it's one thing to catch them in their mid-20s because they're always sitting their ways, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. But at 13, it's something totally different. Right. You know what I mean? Like, so Ruben was became, you know, what it was because now he's coming through the school. Right. You know, my the president of uh Jamla Records is Kashif Norville Cash, which you know, he we talk about how Jamla has become like more than just a label, it became an academy. Like they were born out of this academy. Right. We were recording, you know, he said it was a beautiful process because while we're recording the zeniths, Ruben and I were recording Welcome Home. So they get to watch us through this whole thing, how it goes, but they'll tell you, like, some days we making beats and doing that. Some days, I'll tell you, I'll talk for two hours. Because I'm because I'm sitting there trying to literally like, you know, because they'll ask me one question and I'm gone.
SPEAKER_03The professor comes out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because I got so many stories to to come out of and so many experiences. Yes, of course. But same thing with cash, like so many experiences, so many stories, you know, they get to watch me, cash, they get to watch E. Jones, they get to watch Swank and Draft, they get to watch Hella Victoria, they get to watch you know, the work ethic of Mussolini, who doesn't stop. Shout out to Mussolini, new album coming. You know what I mean? They get to watch RB stuff from Sweater, they get to watch Um My New Kid Elada Don. They get to watch these things come in. So to go through the whole process, they I tell them, y'all gotta head start at this.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? When you first started, I first started, it was like trial by fire. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Like whatever, whatever you could soak in from what you heard, what you heard, and most of the stuff you didn't get to see back then. It was like you just had to figure out how they were doing what they were doing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but now they they have a chance to see it in real time. Go through my I come in the studio and tell them a story about like real time. Man, they tripping on this sample in real time. Or me and Ruben got to do this in real time, or dealing with, you know, this album was well, the collective was built out of me building my relationship with Rock Nation over time. Right. So they didn't get to see the whole Rock Nation thing, and they get a firsthand whatever's happening on the internet, whatever's going on with some rapper, whatever what it is, they get to hear this stuff first. I'm like, don't believe that. This is what's going on. It better not leave the studio. But that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03You gotta sign the NDA before the NDA.
SPEAKER_04But they they got a chance, you know, in a lot of kids, they don't, yeah, a lot of people don't have the chance to get that firsthand information without somebody holding something over their head or owing them something and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I tell them all the time, man, my legacy is set. I'm cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. This is food for you, you know? And so out of all of that came this, um, came this album.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Uh, and then obviously you've also turned all this history and music into teaching, you know, um at different places.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So um that started early. That started in 2006 in North Carolina Central. And I taught at Barber Scotia, which is uh a school in um North Carolina that is not accredited anymore. It's HBCU. I taught there for free for a semester while while they were losing their accreditation. That led me to Duke. I've been at Duke since 2010. Um since then, um, I taught at Harvard from 2012 off and on to 2018. University of Pennsylvania. I taught for a semester while I was an artist in residence. I did a week at the University of Virginia. I've been to Cornell twice. Um I taught at the Rock Nation School for two years. And I'm currently now at Duke and Wake Forest at the same time. Um, I got Wake Forest students. Right. Um one of the producers in the collective is named DJ. We call him DJ to DJ. DJ. Um he makes beats, but he also is an offensive lineman for Wake Forest football. Wow. Okay. Which is crazy. Yeah. Um their manager or management person, somebody you've been emailing every day. Yep, absolutely. Mr. Henry Roden. Yep. On top of his business. In top of his business. But I met him. He was in my beat production class at Duke. Okay. And he talked about, and get correct me if I'm wrong, Harry, that he did a uh talent show and did scenario. You see, he's nodding as a show. In his third grade talent talent show, he did scenario, and I'm looking at him like, you're different. And so and so, but he ended up graduating from Duke University and became, you know, their um, even Rhapsody's partner um in their label, uh, him, uh Andre Mago. Um I met him as a Duke student. And he took me out to dinner one time with his parents and told, he told his parents in front of me without warning, yeah, I don't want to do pre med anymore. I'm gonna do what'll do business. I'm like, bruh, like, what are you doing? So shots to Mago. But yeah, you know, but I have, you know, mainly without trying, even trying, my, you know, swank and draft was formerly my students. Okay. I have pulled from the collegiate ranks, right? After me saying no, no, no, no. Right. They're like, no, I want to learn. You know what I mean? And of course, the number of demo tapes I get. Sure. And yeah, say demo tape. The number of MP3s I get or whatever. Wii transfers, whatever the linguist, man, you know, the number of that I get, you know, every semester. Check me out. I'm like, man, hold up to the end of the semester. We're not here for that. And, you know, as soon as the last day of the semester, they all come. So yeah, and what you said. Yeah, here you go. You know, but the whole collective was born out of me speaking at Winston-Salem State. I spoke that one time, and I was, you know, I told her and another kid, so why don't y'all start a crew on campus? Right. And it was like, okay. Because I noticed in in school people love rap music, but the act of the culture is not there a lot. They don't do a lot of things with the culture. Like, you know, they started a hip-hop club called The Watchers Sound Wave. And with the Watchers was born the collective. You know, it was a it was a uh beat crew from Wake Forest called the Salem Assassins, Winston Salem Assassins, Salem Assassins. Then they got the Watchers over here, and so they made the collectives. Now it's 15 of them, and the times I'm not in town, she'll come and say, Daddy, can't we stay in the studio? And I walk in the studio and it's 15 in my studio, bojangles everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, like cooch, they don't. I'm glad you hear me, but they don't understand how it's kind of like being an NBA basketball player and having a kid that's already acclimated to a lot of things. Yeah, they don't understand how it is to like to have somebody, oh, we can just go to the studio and just turn the lights on. Yeah. And they be in there, man, all weekend, blankets, all this stuff, man. It's really crazy. But nah, I'm I'm blessed to do it. I'm blessed to be able to do it, man. Yeah, for sure. That I'm leaving something in the legacy of students.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, absolutely. And um, you know, it was it was interesting because I was actually gonna ask you about your students and if if there was talent coming from that. Obviously, there was. As a as a professor, as a teacher, um, how how heavy of a burden is is it on you, you know, talking about this and giving out this information? Because like, you know, we're very factual on what we We're not going to lie to you. Yeah, you know, so it's like, but like also, is there like, you know, as you see things in in real time right now, there's you know, discussions about, you know, blacks and Latinos and hip-hop, who started, who contributed, uh, you know, there's there's always different things. I'm so sick of that. Right, but the point being is this like when when you're speaking to these kids, it's like, you know, do you have to is somewhere in your mind like you know, just worrying about being politically correct and exactly what you're saying?
SPEAKER_04No. Um Harry will tell you, man. I, you know, in my classes at Duke University, you know, I'll tell them straight up, just like I'll tell my kids in HBCU, I'll tell them straight up that, you know, the whole with the whole racial thing of who was there first. I'm gonna give you the facts. You come up with what you want to come up with. Now we can have a whole conversation about African diaspora. I get all that. Right. But you're not gonna sit here and tell me that Rick Rubin is a guest. Right. I'm not going for that. I'm not going for Crazy Legs being a guest. I'm not going for Bill Adler being a dead guest. Right. I'm not going for none of that. Right. You know what I mean? I'm not going for the people who, regardless of color, knows the culture and been around it. Right. And like some parts help shape it. Oh, and some parts help shape it. It may have been a house that was already built as far as the diaspora. I get that 1,000%. But if we don't have Rick Rubin, I just don't know. So, and I keep it straight up with them, and they could come up with their own conclusion. Right. But we as historians of hip hop, we know what this thing is. Right. And so, you know, I don't hold back, I'm not politically cleric. Here, am I politically? No. I think that the stigma of Duke sometimes is like, oh, you gotta go in there and walk on eggshells. No, like I I've, you know, cuss my clear kids out a couple times in class, you know what I mean? Like, you know, um, and tell them, like, hey, this ain't no game. Like, you don't want to be here, get out. You know what I mean? That's your parents' money.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04And it's funny when I do that, when they come to class the next day, they're like, Professor, how you doing? It's crazy. And I'm like, what's up? You know, I'm thinking I'm gonna get emails from parents. Yeah, yeah. They're like, nah. But I guess they like, man, knife cussed us out yesterday. Right. Yay. You know what I mean? Like, what'd you do? You know what I'm saying? Like, what'd you do? They like they like it. They like, man, I got cussed out by knife one day in class because he he we wasn't playing. But um, yeah, I don't hold back. I don't I don't know politically correct in my class at all.
SPEAKER_03Good. Nah, but just as you know, uh uh a fan of watching and seeing what you've done over the years, uh, I appreciate you know your contributions and your as yours, brother.
SPEAKER_04To have DJ in front of your name means something. No doubt. And I and I think we can get into the whole conversation of having DJ in front of your main these days, not meaning as much as it used to, but you are a DJ and you are a staple in this thing. If somebody wants to deal with anything coming out of the indie scene, coming out of New York hip-hop, you know, you've been around long enough to see where this thing has has taken form, taken shape. You're a fan of it just like I was, way in the you're in New York, way in, I'm away in North Carolina, and I'm pretty sure let it all hang out by you know, that adore. Yep. Hit me the same way it hit you. Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? And we didn't even know each other.
SPEAKER_03Not at all. That's the thing. It's like, and that's that's the biggest difference in in today's climate of music, is that back then there was um, I guess you can say, more focused and limited releases. So when that, when let it all hang out, dropped, regardless of me hit being here and you being down there, we heard the same things because we had the same uh access to where it was coming from. Whereas now it's just like, you know, like the zenith, you can't turn on hot 97 and hit in New York and hear the zenith. You have to know where you're going to hear that. You know, so it's more of a focused uh community now that like that that knows. It's a lot of pockets, man. Yeah, exactly. It's a lot of pockets. So it's easier for stuff to get missed, which is also why, you know, we we continuously, you know, Fappy's put out this this record and we continuously uh work to promote stuff that we love. That's what we've always done from day one. Um and that's what we're gonna continue to keep on doing. You can always go to Fappies.com to check this this out as well as other stuff like this. That's good music. Jada and Saya, um what else is is on the horizon for you guys? What do you what do you guys think you want to do next?
SPEAKER_02Uh work for sure. Like there's always more work to do, more songs to make, more songs to feel. Like Jada said earlier, it's like that's a big part of like our music process. It's always like the feel. Like she makes the beats off the feel, and I make the song off like how I feel about the beat. So it's like yeah, it's like always more work for sure. Like, yeah, we got more projects coming, more projects in the work, duo projects, collective projects, it's it's so many webs. Like, it's crazy. You ready for all those beats?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I will say, I'm not gonna lie, I am more focused on school right now. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. Yeah, but I'm gonna definitely make my choice back and forth to like Winston Wiley, make sure you know he gets the beats he need and the song recorded. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03How far apart are you guys?
SPEAKER_01Like two hours. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm actually in Durham now. I was in Fairville. Uh, you know, moved up to Durham. Okay.
SPEAKER_03All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, uh, Ninth Wonder. Um Jada and Saya, the album The Zenus, is out there right now. Uh again, FatBeast.com, or just go to Spotify or any you know streaming platform that you want to choose to check it out. And uh, if people want to find out more information, where do they catch you on your socials, Jada?
SPEAKER_01Oh, my socials is my name, Jada Doubt04.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Saya. Yeah, follow me on IG47.saya. S-I-A-H. It's pronounced Saya. S14H is pronounced Saya. Saya. Yep. And then ninth. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_03Nice and easy. Ninth wonder everywhere.
SPEAKER_04I T H wonder everywhere with the blue check, baby. I don't know how much that means anymore these days. All right.
SPEAKER_03But uh, I appreciate all y'all uh coming through for this. It means a lot.
SPEAKER_04I have a question for them. Can I ask a question? How do y'all feel about because this is their first time in New York City? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So can you see yourself doing this? Like this is this one interview. Can you see yourself doing 23 years of this?
SPEAKER_0223 years.
SPEAKER_04Running around New York City like it was last night, going in the park, because we went to the little jam, uh-huh. Going to the going in, shaking hands, saying what's up, taking pictures, interviews, like usually, you know, sometimes interviews are like back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back. Media day is like long. Media day is like long. Right. So can you imagine? This is one weekend. Can you imagine yourself doing this for 23 years?
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_03Nah, nah, you don't gotta, you gotta, you gotta get that Kanye. Damn right I can do it.
SPEAKER_02When I say I think so, it's like, cause like how you was just saying like last night, like we everywhere. It's like, this is like the vibe, like that and music goes hand in hand. Like the vibe of in the atmosphere, wherever you at, and music, it's like they're always synonymous because you're feeling music. Like when it's hitting your eardrum, you feeling it. So, yeah, like, yeah, I love it. I ain't gonna lie. You love it. I love it. What about you, baby girl?
SPEAKER_01Um, probably not. I like to be behind the scenes with this stuff. I don't like interviews and talking and yeah, but I mean, New York City is it's a great place. I like the adventure of it. Um, yeah, we're 23 years it is, yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03All right. Well, that's it. We got my lady here. Uh, we'll catch you all in the next episode. This has been the Fat Beast Behind the Counter podcast. Peace.
SPEAKER_02The fat beats. The fat beats.