Making Carbon Visible in Housing

 Sara Gutterman talks with Matthew Cooper, Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer at PEG, about how energy modeling, performance validation, and embodied carbon measurement are changing the way homes are designed, built, financed, and valued. Together, they explore why first cost and price per square foot no longer tell the full story—and how tools like RESNET 1550 can help builders, manufacturers, municipalities, and homeowners better understand the true long-term value of healthier, higher-performing, lower-carbon homes. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi, and welcome to the Valuation Metric, a podcast about the risks, rewards, roadblocks, and revelations reshaping the way that we measure worth. I'm your host, Sarah Gutterman, CEO of Green Builder Media, North America's leading media company focused on green building and sustainable living. Across our economy, a quiet truth is underway and happening and unfolding. The metrics that have guided decision making for decades, first cost, price per square foot, short-term returns, are proving to be insufficient in a world that's now defined by climate risk, resource constraints, and rising expectations for performance. Nowhere is that misalignment more visible and perhaps detrimental than in housing. Because homes aren't just financial assets. They're long-term systems, systems that either protect or expose us physically, financially, and environmentally. And yet, many of the most important dimensions of those systems, especially carbon, have largely remained invisible. But today's guest is helping to change that. Matthew Cooper is the senior vice president and chief operating officer at PEG, a company that's at the forefront of energy modeling, performance validation, and building science. His work sits at the intersection of data, design, and decision making, helping translate building performance and carbon into something that the market can understand, measure, and ultimately value. So today, we're going to explore what happens when we make the invisible visible and how that shift could fundamentally reshape the way that homes are designed, built, financed, and valued. Matthew, welcome to the valuation metric.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Absolutely. So before PEG became a leader in energy modeling and performance validation, there was you, your story, your motivation. What first woke you up to the idea that homes could and really must be something more than walls, wires, and a mortgage?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Well, what's what's interesting is kind of the path that I took to end up here working in residential new construction. Um my background is was you know principally founded in commercial uh buildings and in working in commercial and institutional buildings where there were much more robustly uh understood, designed, and implemented um ways of evaluating um the built environment. So you know having standards and policies and practices already um available to practitioners that are working in commercial buildings was something that I was very used to and came up through the mechanical engineering side of things and then learned you know hands-on how to do air balancing and sound evaluations and vibration anal evaluations in buildings, and starting to look at really understanding the interaction between our our workspace in in most cases and um the wellness of people that are are trying to uh you know function within those spaces. And we had a lot of standards that were available to us, such as air diffusing performance indexes and ways that we evaluated what made people productive and comfortable and happy in their workspace. And we started to work with uh people that wanted to apply some of those things to their their own individual homes. And yeah, these were existing homes. So we we started to adapt some of those uh practices to suit more closely the types of um buildings that we would would be working in that were residential. And over time we we developed the you know the same perspective for looking at new construction um and in particular production, new construction, uh, and not so much just existing homes. And and that's that's really what kind of brought us there was how do we take things that we've already decided and understood in in the the engineering world and in the property management world, make good sense of how to measure our environment, things like commissioning and retro commissioning and continuous commissioning and understanding how light impacts uh people inside of space and not just temperature and not just what a thermostat says and and you know, really all of indoor air quality and indoor environmental quality. So looking at sound, looking at light, um drafts, uh obviously humidity and and temperature, um, but then also you know invisible things such as um contaminants, etc. And and really taking those and apply them to um the residential space. And that that's really what kind of you know drove and continues to drive our passion is how do we continue to how do we continue to learn from the commercial world and pull those things into the residential world, where, as we all found during COVID, you know, five years ago, six years ago, you know, really changed our perspective of how important is it for us to be looking at more than just sticks and bricks and you know what color paint is on the wall.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Given that, is there a central principle that you refuse to compromise on when it comes to how housing is designed, constructed, and valued?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

You know, I would say that that probably that the closest thing to a central principle for for me and for for PEG is to not let um the way things have always been done stand in the way of implementing a better process.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Let me ask you a little bit of an esoteric question. Do you believe that homes and buildings have a moral obligation to protect, to nurture, to reduce harm? And if so, where does that responsibility live?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Well, you know, I think that when when you when you look at when you look at homes in particular and buildings in general, the the the the first the first perspective of what is the what is the point of that that structure is shelter. Um and so to me, I feel that if you if you if you approach how you design, build, and live in any building, but in particular a home, if if our first focus is on the fact that it is to provide shelter, then I believe that you know shelter encompasses wellness of um the occupants and how the building interacts with its its surroundings. And I believe that from a moral perspective, um if we consider shelter first and everything else secondary, then that that does become a moral um uh perspective that needs to be considered primary and not a secondary.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Let's pivot a little bit and talk about rethinking risk and value. If you could wave a wand and rewrite one rule of valuation, one change that would unlock higher performance, climate responsive, healthier homes and buildings at scale, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Well, I think back again to not letting not letting the way that we've always done things be um you know the the the first driver. Um so when we when we find success working with different categories of customers, um, you know, we look at you know finding what element of the way that they've always done things is is really providing no about no value to them, and then it's actually detrimental to what they're trying to accomplish. And when I when I say that, you know, we we have we have customers all across the spectrum, people that are are building you know just production homes, that you know, they're they're they're entry-level homes, all the way up to people building you know very complex and costly custom homes, um, to working with workforce housing, to looking at um uh school housing. There's there's so many different parts of the industry that we touch that taking that perspective to each of them of you know, we're we're going to find what part of what how you've been doing is something that if you could pivot away from that and learn to do it a different way, you would have so much better of an end result for the constituency that is your customer base.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

And when you have that conversation with your clients, whether it's the production builders or other stakeholders in the value chain, especially the stakeholders right now that are doing things in a more traditional manner, let's say to that price per square foot valuation metric as opposed to the value per square foot valuation metric, how do they respond? Are they getting it? Are they responding well or are they kind of sticking to the status quo?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, you know, it's it's it's interesting because it it varies so much. Um, you know, when when we first first started working in the residential space, um, you know, our our principal relationship was between our third-party experts and people that were in construction, people that were actually building the structures. And you know, it became more of a relationship of understanding building science and you know, how building materials need to effectively interact with each other and how to start to make changes in even scopes of work for various trades, of you know, changing what the expectation was for the end result. And how do you how do you push that through the entire food chain of all the different moving you know, moving compartments of how you how you build? And it started to shift over to we started to have more relationships with you know the design side or the sales side or the procurement side. And since each of those, those constituencies within the building community have different motivators, um, you know, you often have to find, you know, how how do you resonate what you're trying to provide to them in a manner that that you know fits into the narrative of where they tend to focus? And then when you're you're really lucky, you start to find customers that have uh an ethos that is consistent throughout all of those different um departments of of their operation, that they've got a um a unifying need and perspective that aligns with you know very closely what what we're trying to help them uh implement or perfect. And for us, those are the most rewarding customers to work with. Um, but it it's also equally rewarding to get to work with someone that started down here, and over years we've gotten them to up here, and they anticipated it being a painful process. And what we've been able to successfully you know accomplish over to over time was that they they finally find themselves up here and they they didn't experience pain along the way. And that becomes kind of an aha moment for them of you know, you were right. I I we were capable of doing it better all along. We just didn't, we you know, we we bought into the the the old mantra of this is the way we've always done it, this is the way we're gonna do it. And if you try to deviate from that, it's just going to fail and it's going to be more expensive, and um, there's no way we'll be able to adequately repeat it in a manner that allows us to continue to grow as as a business. So I think those are the those are kind of the things that um you know really become a sought-after reward of you know the the all the different types of customers that we work with.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

How do you think that we can be the most effective uh in terms of helping uh certain builders and other stakeholders that are perhaps pursuing a more traditional model understand that performance, resilience, health and wellness, energy independence, all these things we talk about, decarbonization are not cost centers, but revenue drivers and value drivers. What in your experience has been the most effective messaging and um uh just approach uh when it comes to helping uh facilitate that transition?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Well, I think there's there's a couple of things that that are most effective in in accomplishing that. The first is finding out, uh, like I said, you know, what what is the what is the the perspective that they have that um you know has become kind of a a hallmark of of how they do business, and then take that and and use it as the opportunity to change the narrative. So if they if we come to if we come to a meet with a builder and you know, as they said, you know all they're interested in is cost, then you know one, they may not be a customer, a good customer fit for us, but it's a challenge and we like challenges. So um, you know, if if we if we come to working with someone and that's their their sole focus, then we need to be able to take um the conversation and shift it into helping them see how the changes that we're trying to help them accomplish are actually something that can have a positive impact to um what at this point in time is most important to them, that being the cost of construction. So, for example, we we may come to uh you know a customer and say, well, you know, whether you're you're being mandated to change something or you're seeing an increased interest from your your buying community in something that you're not currently doing, and all you're focusing on is how much more it's going to cost you. Let's look at the the total life cycle of the what would happen if you made those changes. And the thing that's really cool about today is that we have such great um modeling tools. We have such great programs that we can use to visually and mathematically and um from an accounting perspective, really show a builder um how these changes can be cost-effectively um implemented into their process so that maybe there's there is a higher first cost to that particular part of construction. But if you look at the entire picture of how how is it going to impact the cost of ownership? How is it going to impact the the cost of operating the home? And how will that benefit the occupants of the home? And we look at if we do these things and we do them properly, how will that actually reduce the builder's exposure to warranty expense? How will that actually boost the um um the customer satisfaction of their pool of buyers? And how will that change their the the reputation for them as a business entity? And then if you consistently do that over time, where will you actually see the opportunity for making these improvements in what you're doing, whether it's materials or methods, um, how will that actually benefit you from a net um you know cost perspective of operating your business? And I think that that's the that's the magic of the tools that we have available to us. And as we start to look at at new things as they come along, getting those tools in place and being able to reliably implement them into that process is what becomes really critical in effectively carrying that narrative forward until that you get to the point, Sarah, where you know something that you talked about, you know, and you seemed like you were out on the fringe 15 years ago. Today, builders at every level may look at something and say, yeah, well, no kidding, we need to do, you know, we need to do water-existent barriers, you know, we need to properly flash windows, or we need to shift away from this type of material that we use in a home, or we need to, you know, invest in in a in a better window. Whereas before, like I said, you know, some of those things were, you know, they were just you know esoteric ideas out there for you know a production level builder. And today they're just standard practice. So it's it's a constantly moving and improving um you know world that we live in with you know with residential construction. And I think that that you know that that story in and of itself becomes something that you can utilize when starting to now tackle the next thing, like you know, embodied carbon, and say, well, remember when you said that was impossible? And look at where you are today. So, you know, trust me when I say that you know, this is a new process. This is a new, this is a new way of understanding um the value per square foot of the home. Um, but just remember that back in the day when you thought that that just getting energy efficiency was going to be impossible for you. Look at how far you've come and look at how far your trades have come, and look at how much happier um your homeowners are, and look at where it's actually become a profit center for you versus a cost obstruction.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Absolutely. We see the same thing. The conversation has evolved so much in the last couple of decades, but particularly even in the last five-ish years with respect not just to building science and performance, but now uh we are having robust decarbonization conversations with builders and stakeholders of all kinds, which is actually a nice segue. I'd like to shift gears and talk about decarbonization. So, for listeners who might not be familiar with the concept and the term, what is it and why does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

So we've we've had for a while now in the in the residential uh new construction world, you know, an understanding of the relationship between energy efficiency and operational carbon. So you know there's been from you know from ResNet, there's been a carbon index available for for many years now, um, which is a direct corollary to the energy efficiency of the home and the makeup of the grid where that home is built. So that part of carbon is kind of, you know, it's been there, people are aware of it. Um, you know, some people are are utilizing it to drive change and to drive choices when you look at things such as um code cycles in in states, as well as you know, incentive programs from utility companies or um you know states that are are looking at having you know a definitive plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So that operational side of things has been around for a while. What is new for and again, this is you know, like I said at the beginning, taking something that's been in existence in the non-residential construction world and bringing it into it is you know, that's the exciting part of something new for us. And so when we look at you know the operating cost of the home and how that you know correlates to greenhouse gas um reduction opportunities, now we we we we're able to finally look at the embodied carbon. So um, you know, in the in the institutional world and the industrial world, embodied carbon has been something that has been well understood, well you know um able to be evaluated, assessed, and reported on um because of um having EPDs for products in whatever industrial componentry uh that that was being looked at. So to take that concept and move it into residential new construction uh has been a challenge. And that's something that has been an uh you know, it's impeded us from being able to try to take the tools that we had available to us that were designed for evaluating embody carbon in um you know commercial applications, they they really weren't that they really weren't that appropriate or that um you know able to be smoothly implemented into assessing the same standard, the same types of things, same conditions in residential new construction. Um so you know, we we we've had to cobble together different tools out there in this in as a as a practicing consultant to try to do that in the residential space. Um and so we now we finally have the ResNet 1550 standard that is making it possible to look at embody carbon in in a home and to include the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems, which was a a big important component of it that is very complex. So now we can now we have the ability to look at first day carbon. So we're we're looking at um, you know, how what what was the the greenhouse gas impact of everything that went into the keys getting being turned in the door the first day that that the new homeowner walks into their home. And that carbon, you know, it it it it is what it is on day one. It's never going to, it's not going to get higher unless the homeowner starts to make changes and renovations and things like that. Um, so now we have the ability to look at the the first day embodied carbon and then also look at the operational carbon and really be able to see what is the total carbon picture uh of a structure and be able to drive choices and change in how do we how do we pick and choose um you know ways that we can reduce the embodied carbon without increasing the operational carbon and vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

The way that I like to think about it is you know, decarbonization in the built environment is of paramount importance just because it's such a conspicuously consumptive sector. If you think about, you know, there's um what is it, 40,000 products or and you know, uh just a tremendous amount of resource that goes into any home or building that's you know, is the typical American home. I think is the the it has about you know 40,000 products that go in, goes into it. And um, you know, embodied carbon is uh comprised of all the emissions from the very first raw material that's extracted for uh the very first product that goes into that house and all of the other products. Uh so it's you know, extraction, transportation, manufacturing, packaging, more transportation and installation, all the way up until the day that that house, we'll just talk about houses right now, uh, is occupied and then operational carbon occurs with respect to operating uh and the performance of the home, most of it's the energy use of the home uh once that house is occupied. So that's the difference between embodied and operational carbon. Um and you know, I think that that res net 1550 really feels like a turning point because it begins to measure, as you said, the embodied carbon in the materials and the in total, the total environmental load that a home carries from day one. And it turns carbon into something that's abstract into something that is quantifiable and comparable and ultimately financeable. And once carbon becomes visible, so do kind of the, let's say, the risks and rewards, so insurance risk, durability risk, resale risk, um, but also the rewards of decarbonization or minimizing and then ultimately reducing um or eliminating the carbon uh to become, let's say, regenerative or carbon positive, as we're starting to see with some materials as they're absorbing more carbon uh in their long-term life cycle than they're using during production. So I think that this resin at 1550, um, again, it it helps um create something that is usable to change the valuation model. So talk a little bit about what 1550 actually measures. Um, and I think that it is specifically applicable to single family and multifamily residential units.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Correct. Yes. So what the way the standard works is that um there are there are decisions that have to be made in in the the the use of it as a tool. Um and those decisions are based on available information. And and that's the other exciting thing, I think, about this is that for the first time, having uh a standard in place and the the forthcoming tools that will be available to implement it will now afford manufacturers of materials and products um a uh a means by which they can make choices too about what products and do they want to bring to market and you know for for what purpose. So we're in the in the past, you know, we've we've not had a lot of of you know insight into the embodied carbon of a lot of the materials that go into a home. Um, now that there's a standard for how how do you how do you calculate that, how do you assess it, um, that will drive change in the manufacturing world to make choices about you know developing and bringing to market lower uh embodied carbon options because there's a tool that people can use reliably to you know to to consider the value proposition to them of do I use product A that has a higher embodied carbon, or do I use product B that has a lower embody carbon? And ultimately, even how do I design my structures? And you know, when I look at the choices of how to design something, I now I can can you know overlay into the process of thoughts um of you know how do I want to make a structure be more resilient uh to wind or rain or other other natural um factors, um, but also take into consider the into consideration the the impact that has on the total embodied carbon as well as the total or as well as the operational carbon. Um that's those are those are things that you know haven't been able to be done before. So it's it's exciting to see that that that change um will will be able to um be you know enhanced as we go along with this with this this new standard. Um but the way that the standard works is you know when when the assessor is looking at each component three, let's just think, for example, of you know, one's one section of wall. If there are um specific products being used or are being considered to be used in the construction of that wall, and those manufacturers have EPDs available um on the marketplace for that product, then the assessor can use those EPDs. But since the the challenge is that you know, we there are certain parts of construction that are already have a lot of EPDs available, some you know, things such as windows and things such as um roofing materials, things that um are very heat intensive in their manufacturing, um, have traditionally been more inclined to already have done uh and invested in having those EPDs done. So where we have those actual EPDs, the assessor can use those. But what's really fascinating and fantastic about 1550 is where you don't have EPDs, now we have tables that have averages that are industry averages that are recognized and accepted industry averages for those same products. So even if we don't have an EPD for a particular product, the assessor can still calculate the embodied carbon by the use of those tables. And I think that that will also become a driver for um manufacturers, is if they know that they have a product that offers a lower operational or lower embodied carbon um uh EPD value than what the table has as an average, then that becomes a selling point for them to be able to say, well, if you don't want to go with the average that's in table 27 of uh the standard 1550, our product is 10% lower than the average of those products. And that's that becomes part of a value proposition story. So taking in that wall, you know, the the dimensions of the wall, the amount of the materials that are in the wall based on the design, and being able to use either actual EPDs or the tables of average industry values for those those products, we can create and come up with a total embodied carbon number for that section of wall. And essentially in this the the implementation of 1550, we go throughout the entire home doing that. So it's it's it's every floor, wall, every component that goes into the home that has um an embodied carbon element to it can be calculated and you can end up with a with a final total calculation. And that then can be used to um you know draw out choices. So if you know if a builder is looking at either it's important to them to start to reduce embodied carbon, they can make choices based on that. Or if they're building in a municipality that has a mandate or a requirement or a proffer that the that potential builders must demonstrate a prescribed amount of reduction, which you know we're starting to see in parts of the country. Um, now they have a way of you know creating that baseline and then making choices and then re um refreshing that baseline with the new choices and start to look and see, you know, where can I meet my goal, whether it's an internal goal or a prescribed goal of reducing embodied carbon, and how do I make those choices of what am I going to select differently in my either my design or my my selection of materials that accomplish that reduction that I'm looking to accomplish?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

You talked a little bit about um some of the benefits uh certainly to an assessor um having a tool that is um uh kind of credible and replicable. Um but let's talk of, let's extend the value proposition. How do you see ResNet 1550 uh being deployed into the marketplace in terms of providing enhanced value to builders, uh ultimately to homeowners? But uh you talked also about municipalities starting to pick up this standard uh as the basis for codes and mandates and regulations. Uh also talk about that with respect to how that shifts and transform the market so that this isn't something that is a voluntary thing, but ultimately this becomes something that is required for builders and developers throughout the country.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah, well, I think again, so if you look at um the the drivers, um you know, you have, you know, for example, in the Northeast US, you have um mandates for um using an optional path of calculating and and demonstrating reduced embodied carbon can impact uh both code compliance as well as um financial incentives uh from the municipality or from the state to to developers and builders. So that becomes a uh a tool of, you know, just as they learned in energy efficiency of getting away from prescriptive um you know construction and utilizing performance um approach through modeling tools to make choices of complying with code, um, but in a less in a in a more strategic thought process that allowed them to demonstrate that compliance through the use of better performance versus just following a prescriptive checklist. So the same thing can apply here in that type of market. What's interesting is that you know we also have very unique um styles of construction that are different across the country. So, for example, there was a 100-home study done um by the Northeast HERS Alliance in uh Massachusetts, looking at um 100 homes. These were homes that had been built in the last year to several years that had had a HERS rating done. And the those Hurst raters were involved in the in the program to go back to those homes, um, not physically, but go back to those homes in their models and in their plans and specifications and uh implement this 1550 process and develop a uh embodied carbon you know illustration of those same homes. And what's interesting is that you know, in that marketplace, there's a prevalence of homes to be built with basements. So when we look at embodied carbon, obviously concrete is is one of the major components that um represent a lion's share of the embodied carbon in a home. And so you've got choices of, you know, you know, you could have the same square foot home without a basement and significantly reduce your embodied carbon as a choice from a design perspective. Or you could, if you believe that you know your buyer is simply not going to even come and look at a home that doesn't have a basement because that's what's most common in that marketplace, then you make choices of, well, what type of concrete do we use? And you know, can we go from a zero fly ass concrete to a 20% fly ass concrete or 40% fly ass concrete and offer the same um product that the consumer wants, um, but at a reduced um embodied carbon perspective? So, you know, we we we see different parts of the country have different opportunities for us to tell this story and to look at um how can we extract the most benefit out of it for um both the product and the people um that will live in those homes and you know make those choices.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

What are the biggest hurdles to integrating embodied carbon into how we value homes? You know, what's the linchpin and what has to happen to move this from being an emerging concept to a market standard?

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Well, I I think I think what has to happen is people have to see um and be able to rely upon the utilization of the standard. And um you'll you'll start to see more manufacturers understand that now that they now they have a reliable methodology by which their products can be judged against their competitors. So there will be start to be a change in the in the marketplace side of it. Um, and that will start to change the the awareness side of it within the consumer. So as consumers start to see more more products on the marketplace that are visibly telling their embodied carbon story, they'll start to say, what is that? Why and why is that important to me? And then they may start to see, oh, well, now I understand what what you're what you're saying, um, why you're you're marketing your product as being a differentiator when it comes to embodied carbon. Um so I think those two components will will start to be the key drivers is manufacturers telling their story and consumers starting to see that story be told, start to understand it, and then start to ask for it. Um so being um part of the valuation will start to impact things such as insurance requirements. Uh it will start to impact um things such as uh finance uh availability, because there will be tools on our marketplace that will say, okay, well, now there's a now there's a reasonable way of assessing this, whereas before it was very clumpy, very clunky, very complicated. And in a lot of cases, I think you know people would say, do can we really trust that? Well, now that now that there's a methodology to do that, that will be rolled into the quality assurance part of ResNet, um, there'll be a change in that uh understanding and and conversation around um around embodied carbon. And I think that because of the the way that the consumer has seen uh energy efficiency become just such a standard component of what they look at when they consider where do I want to live, um, I think that they'll it'll be a faster adoption process for embodied carbon uh because it's following the same path of of uh energy efficiency. And you know, where energy efficiency in the 70s was was you know very fringe and and you know, it challenged a lot of people's um perspective of you know, is this important to me and why, to something where in in the last you know decade to 15 years, it's become just pure mainstream. Everybody understands it, everybody asks about it, you know, they they want to know the Hearst index on their home, they they want to understand, you know, they they see the value proposition of codes changing, they see the bit the benefits to them of improved indoor air quality, improved durability, um, improved retention of value, um, you know, the value of their homes. I think, you know, I read recently the average age of American housing is 40 plus years old. Um, so when you look at, you know, what does a 40-year-old home today need to bring it up to today's standards, it's significant. So, you know, people can make a choice of do I, when I'm looking at two homes to buy, and one is is 40 years old and one is brand new, the brand new home with better, better operational carbon, better uh embodied carbon is not going to need all these changes to bring it up to the same level of quality and comfort and shelter that I want for my family. Um, and that will change their their decision making.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Matthew, I have two final rapid-fire questions. First, uh in a very succinct way, tell us what value per square foot means to you.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

So, to me, value per square foot is it's inclusive of quality of life. Um, and to me, when I look at how do we help builders build homes that are a better home for their consumer, we need to look at every element of the home. And it has to be um it has to be cohesive. So to me, the the value is um understanding and and not being willing to consider um taking the cheap route on one component of shelter um and just because of the the the first cost, that it it it you we have to consider all of these elements in com in um in a consistent way to and a cohesive way, that they're they're all equally valued valued.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

And if listeners could remember only one idea from you today, one seed that might change the way that they value the world around them, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

The best way that they can value the world around them um is to see that this piece of shelter is something that should serve them and their family uh for decades to come, and to make that first choice based on um working with with developers that work with the types of products and the type of passion uh for delivering um a home that serves them from a a moral perspective that values their entire life and their interaction with that structure. Um that's what they should, that's what they should be focusing on is not just first cost, but looking at long-term, what is the value proposition for me and my family.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Matthew, thank you so much. Your work has shown us that for too long, turbine and the risks that it represents has been invisible in housing, and that's just not okay anymore. But fortunately, tools like ResNet 1550 are bringing clarity to embodied and operational impact, and the industry is gaining something that it has never had before: a tool to measure this type of decarbonization and high performance to value. So thank you so much for joining us on the valuation metric. Let's keep measuring what truly matters.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

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