Episode 10 - Joel Benjamin

For my 10th episode, I thought I'd do things a bit differently and switch sides of the interview. In this episode, I'm asked about my own experience in the industry, where i came from and the decisions that have brought me here to today to have my own podcast.

Transcript

0:09

What is up guys? Welcome back. Welcome back to another episode of In Plain Clothes. It's a little bit different today. We've had some backstage difficulties, if you will. So today's episode is actually gonna be about me. Interestingly enough, I've been doing this podcast for a few months now and I've never actually really properly introduced myself or talked about any of my history with uh with life, with the industry. Uh so we've actually got, I know the camera is on me, but I do have uh Pigget who was asked not to be on camera. Um Piget is usually behind the camera, she's usually flicking between the three cameras um so that you get best angles of everything uh when we have guests on. But um, she's gonna be asking me questions today, so it's a little bit different. Um, but yeah, hope you enjoy it. I have no idea what these questions are gonna be. It's all a little bit last minute, but we thought why not? It might be a good way for uh people to understand me a little bit more rather than just me asking the questions, you know? What do you want to ask me? Hey, let's go for it. Uh-huh. All right, so let's do some more personal things at the moment. Personal. Um sorry, let's get the because you want to make otherwise you won't we'll have another situation of not being able to hear because the mic's not connected. I understand, I understand. Okay, so in terms of your journey, how how have you gotten to this spot that you're in right now, in terms of performing, in terms of being like on a podcast and everything like that? Uh-huh. Is it feel really weird for you talking on this podcast right now? Seeing your face, you're like, oh my god, he's not like. I know it feels strange not because I need to look at the camera because obviously the camera's just on me that's not switching. So if I look at you, they're gonna be like, who is he talking to? Um, okay, I mean it's a good question. It's how I start the podcast. Feels weird having it being switched around on me. Um, yeah, so what was my kind of I started performing not that uh young, to be honest. I started probably when I was in uh school, there was a school musical. Uh we did um Wheel Rock You and I was in year seven, so it was my first year at senior school. I was about 11 years old. Uh, we did Wheel Rock You and I was cast as uh alternate because there's always kind of two casts, so people get a chance, alternate Galileo. Um and at that point I really wasn't very good, it was all just kind of like raw, like try I just wasn't really afraid to kind of just try it and go for it. And I knew that I enjoyed it, but I didn't really know anything about performing. Um, so I went for it, um, got got the part, and then when we performed it, um there was somebody in the audience in the in the school kind of auditorium when the parents and what's uh whoever came, and she was the mum of one of the other students in the school. Uh, and she came, she told her daughter to come up to me afterwards and say, invite Joel to Demon Dance. Now, Demon Dance is a a Friday night uh studio um like dance school um that we had in our town uh where I grew up. Um that I so I she she invited me to go to this on a Friday night, and I went and I was very much a person that did lots of different hobbies um and I would get bored within a few weeks uh and then I would I'd quit, I'd give up, uh, and then I'd hop to the next one. So my parents at this point were just like, oh, can you just stay in one one after school hobby so we're not paying out to go for all these different ones? Um, and I think it was the only thing that I kind of like stuck with. And what was different about it is that when I went on my first try, my first my, I guess like not really audition, but like I went and joined for one evening um so that the the principal could kind of see how I got on. And I ended up leaving crying, but not because of the reason that you think, not because I didn't like it, but because I was annoyed at myself for not being able to pick everything up on the first try of something I'd never done. But bearing in mind, I was so hard on myself that I didn't get it all straight away, and that really bothered me. And my parents were like, okay, maybe this is something that he'll enjoy. So the the principal decided to take me, Emma. Emma, um, she was wonderful. Uh, she's still very much in my life now. So uh yeah, big up demon dance, they're incredible. And then from there, they were a feeder school for a college called SLP in Leeds. Um, and at the end of I think of a few years of doing that on like Friday night, we did some uh summer shows, some you know, um spring shows throughout the year, and they were like, What do you want to do? Like, what do you want to do after school? And I was like, I don't really know, but I'm enjoying this dance performing thing. And they were like, We're a feeder feeder school for a college uh called SLP. Um, so they sent me to an audition in Leeds and I was very fortunate enough to got it to get in. I was saying on a podcast with Hope recently um that I don't know what they saw in me, because it definitely wasn't talent, but it must have been um must have been some promise, yeah, a little bit of something, because whatever I showed on that day was uh was not great, but they still took me. I do put it down to being very fortunate that I'm a boy and there's not a lot of boys in the industry, at least when I was at college. Um so that definitely helped me. Um but yeah, I owe a lot to SLP. They took me. It was actually the only college I knew about and um auditioned for because I didn't know about any others, and so I'm really thankful they took me because I don't know what I would have done if they didn't. Um and it was only through college that I really started to understand what I was getting into. Um, I didn't know anything about musical theater. I don't actually think I had ever seen a full musical. I remember the first musical I ever saw was Kinky Boots in my first year of college, because we came down to London for something called Move It, which is where all the performing colleges across the country kind of come together and show showcase dances and performances um for everybody, like a like a kind of um Comic-Con kind of thing, but for for performing. Um, so we c we you come down every year, and my mum took me on that first year because I still wasn't really sure how to live life on my own, uh, even though I'd moved out at 16 and gone to college to live on my own. Uh, and so she took me down and dropped me off at the theatre, and I met up with some friends from college there, and I watched uh Kinky Boots, which had Jason in who I had on a couple weeks a few weeks ago on the podcast. Um that was the first thing I'd ever seen, and he was in it. Um, and then yeah, so the college was where I first started to understand the the level of difficulty of what I'd kind of picked and started to feel that excitement for it and the drive for it. And I remember in my first year I really struggled. There was um I loved it, but I wasn't picking it up as fast as I wanted to, um, because I didn't do it like everybody else since they were three years old. You know, I'd I'd I'd only gone into ballet literally three months before I went to college just to have some basis in it, and I was in in class in college with people that had been doing it since they were like a tiny tot. Um, so I felt behind and and when it came to exams at the end of the year, I remember I'd failed like most of them. So I knew that I was behind and I needed to I needed to push through to be able to work harder than probably harder than other people were needing to, just to be able to get to their level and keep up with them. Uh, I remember in second year we had to choose whether we wanted to stay on the musical theatre course uh or switch to the dance course. Now that there were those those were the two courses in your first year, you you get put on what you uh what the teachers think your best uh strengths are. And at that time, I think my singing was more of my strength. Um, so they put me on the musical theatre course, and you got the choice to switch um either either or to the other one in for your second and third year if you wanted to. And I remember going, I don't like that I'm not as good at dance, so I want to switch to the dance course. And everyone was like, Joel, what on earth are you doing? You you're better at singing, stay in your lane, do that, don't go to a dance course, you're not great at dance. And that's exactly why that actually fueled me, uh, gave me that lit that fire underneath me. I was like, you know what? That's exactly why I need to, because I want to be better at the things I'm not good at. Um, and so I switched to the dance course, and it was the absolute best decision. Um, because then I became I was now I'm way more of a dancer than I am a singer. I can still sing, but like I'd say dancing is easily my my biggest strength, and it's the thing I enjoy the most as well, which is more important. Um, yeah, so that's that's kind of how my college um time went. I remember at the big at the end of third year, and this taught me a big lesson about myself as well. We'd all arranged, a group of us had arranged to go down for like one of the first auditions, um, to go down to London for there was an open call for Mamma Mia in uh on Royal Caribbean on the Allure of the Seas. And we'd all arranged, and I was a little bit of a fish. I kind of went along with what everyone else did. I didn't really want to go against the flow. Um so we'd all arranged to do it, and I was excited. Uh, and then a few days before we were supposed to go down, everyone backed out. Uh, you weren't technically allowed to audition at that point, I don't think, in college. So I think maybe like fear got the best of some people, or they just they didn't want to or couldn't be bothered, I don't know what it was. Um and on any other occasion I'd have backed out as well. But I went, you know what, for the first time in my life, let me let me do what I want to do, regardless of what somebody else is like even if it feels scary, you know, because I think that would have been one of the first times I ever went to London on my own as well. Um, so I was like, you know what, I need to do this. And I went and I ended up getting the job, and that was my first job, and I left and I went before I even graduated. Um, and that taught me, okay, just because other people do it doesn't mean that you should do it because you can miss out on opportunities. And had I not gone down, I wouldn't that my first year of my professional career would have been very different. So I'm so glad that I followed through on that. Um, from there, um, yeah, it just kind of snowballed really. I learned a lot on that first job. It was the best first job it could have been. Um, there's lots, lots to learn. Um, things I did wrong, things I did well. Um, and I I would never replace that job. It was I met so many amazing people, and it was a safe environment for a first job. I was young, I don't I graduated at 19 years old. Um, and I was in, I didn't have to move around a lot, but I still got to travel, and that's how I knew that I loved to travel as well. So I was on a ship and we would we were going around the Caribbean kind of like for a for a year. Um so obviously I was in like Miami for for rehearsals, um, and then we went on the ship and we were there for like 10, 11 months. Uh, and you still had your your small kind of like your your cabin, so you're you're in the same place for the year, but you're still moving around. And I think that was a good introduction to travelling without it being too like you're immediately on tour, you're immediately like here, there and everywhere, and it's super overwhelming. Um, so I think it was the perfect thing that needed to happen, and I don't regret it at all. Um and then yeah, since then it's kind of snowballed. I've been very fortunate to go for auditions and and then and get the next thing, whether it's tours or or West End or um yeah, commercial TV stuff. It's been yeah, I think that's how that's how it kind of came about. Um you asked about the podcast as well. Um the podcast, I think I've explained briefly about the podcast before. Um but the podcast didn't come about because I really wanted to do one. It was actually something that I'd kind of had on my mind maybe to do some point in the future, but I was very adamant that I wanted to do something. I wanted something to take my mind off just just the the job that I'm doing, just Hercules. I wanted something else to fill my time as well. Um and there was a friend that I had that wanted to do a podcast, and I was like, oh, let's do it together. He was he's very funny, very comical, and I'm uh I'm a bit more like straight. I give it to you straight, I'm a little bit more direct, very entertaining the way we'd we would bounce off each other. It's uh funny to listen to, and that's why we thought we would be a good a good pair to do a podcast together. Um for whatever reason that didn't work out, and I was kind of left with the idea of still wanting to do this podcast, but in a similar situation to college, somebody else had had uh had backed out, and I was left with a with a question of, oh, is this something you're still gonna do? Or because now you're the only one willing to do it, are you gonna back out of it as well? And it took me back to that that time in college where I was like, I'm gonna go to that audition, and I went, you know what, I don't even know what this is gonna be about yet anymore, because without the two people, it didn't really have I'd need to change the whole thing, I need to come up with a completely new idea. Um, but all I knew was d follow through. Follow through, those are the two ways. So I was like, you don't always follow through on um career things if it's like feels like too much work. I was like, make this something you follow through on, regardless. If you don't know what it is, fine, figure it out along the way. And so it became that. And I first I was like, I kind of need to find what's it gonna be about. I was like, well, I I talk really well when I am one-on-one with people. So I don't I didn't want to do it on my own. I wanted to do it with people, but also having to organize it with just like one person all the time, like if schedules don't match, I was like, it's it's easier to have a guest on because that way if that person can't do it, then I can get somebody else, and there's like an endless sea of people that I can use. Um so that's kind of how I came about the being like an interview kind of host. Then I was like, okay, what do I talk about? There's there's a million and one podcasts out there. I was like, what what specifically makes this different? And I like the idea of talking a little bit about career, but I wanted to make put a focus on the person behind the performer because the the industry doesn't do that. There's so many other podcasts out there as well that will focus just on um what college did you go to, um, what what training did you have, like what shows have you done. Uh, and that's throughout uh throughout Instagram as well. That's how you know if you if you recognize someone, you you go, oh, I I've seen you in this, or oh, I remember you were in this. You never go, oh, I I know you had three brothers and four sisters, and do you know what I mean? You don't know anything about them, you just know what they've done career-wise. And I was like, I need to change that because in an industry where where companies uh and jobs will essentially value you based on whatever your CV looks like, um, and that becomes your worth a little bit. I was like, I kind of want to cut through that. Uh, and while there is a place for getting to know what someone's done, um, obviously we're here a lot of the time because of our career. Um, so it's important to kind of highlight that. I wanted to make that less of the focus and the focus more about on the person and their journey and how they've got to where they are, the decisions that they've made that made them the person that they are. Um, and that felt like something that no other podcast was doing. Um, and so it didn't just feel like another podcast in the sea of podcasts that there already are. It felt like something unique that that nobody else was doing that that has some weight to it, where I'm not just dodging the difficult questions um that I'm still asking them. Um and creating a safe, intimate environment where a guest can open up with me and feel listened to, heard, accepted, uh, and not judged for whatever they want to share or don't want to share is completely up to them. Do you know what I mean? I'm not gonna dig um any more than they're they they're comfortable with me digging for uh for stories from them because the most important thing is that they leave feeling like respected and they leave feeling like what they've shared, they're comfortable with it. Like, oh no, I've just put this on, I've just put this online. Do you know what I mean? Um and I've had really good feedback, and a lot of the feedback hasn't actually been direct feedback to me, it's been third-party feedback in the sense that I will put a reel up on Instagram on on the implame clothes uh Instagram uh page, and it'll be of uh of one of the guests talking about everything that they've done or um or like the history that people didn't know about, and then their followers will will comment on on that reel being like, oh my god, I've known you for years, I didn't know this about you. This is amazing. We love you, like we we're here for you, all this really lovely stuff, and in a way that's that's validating a huge amount of what I'm doing here, is I'm trying to get people to see more about these performers that I'm having on the podcast, and they're loving it, like they're they're loving hearing about this stuff. So even though it's not like a direct compliment to me, it feels like what I'm doing has weight to it and that it is important and there is a space for it. Uh, and then I've had a couple of actual guests that have come back being like, wow, I was nervous for it to go on, but I've had so much love from it that like I'm I'm really positive. Thank you for providing a space for that. Um, so it's kind of grown as it's gone. It didn't really I didn't start with, I want this and it's and it's and it's gonna be this podcast and it's gonna be about this and it's gonna have this effect and this it's gonna be in this space. It kind of just happened step by step, and then it kind of created itself. And the more that like it's been reacted to, the more I've gone lent into it and gone with it, and it's it's developed itself into this. So it's kind of yeah, I'm very happy. It's still at the early stages, you know, there's still plenty more that I can be improving on, plenty more that I want to do with it, but I don't know what I want to fully do with it yet, and that's kind of the point. Like, it's gonna it's gonna progress itself, and I'm just gonna go with it and see what more can be done. Yeah, that was a very long answer for a very quick question. So no, it's all good. Okay, so I guess the other thing I want to ask you is because I have not got a whole CV here to actually know what you have done, but you have brought up Mamma Mia. Yes, um, so you've obviously done a cruise. Uh have you also toured and stuff like that? Yes, yes. So I've I started with Mamma Mia. Um I played I was first cover for uh Sky and Eddie. Um really fun, very, very appropriate for the age I was. Um, and then when I came back, I went for an edition for um Bodyguard. Uh that was for the European tour. So we did um, which I got, and we did I was cover stalker in that one. Um, and we did Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg, and Germany. Uh we were supposed to do more, but about six months into that, COVID hit. Um, so then that was that was cancelled. Um, but we still got like six months out of it, so some sometimes that's a full-length contract. So um I've always ended up doing year contracts. I don't know how I keep falling onto that. But um, so shortly after that, obviously we had COVID. Um, and then on the back end of COVID, like nothing things still weren't happening, but there was there was an audition for um Chicago that my agent was like, you need to go for this. There's nothing, there's nothing else going on right now. Like, um, go to any audition that you can. So there's a Chicago audition, which we went for and ended up getting that. So I did the UK tour for that. I played Fred Caseley. Um that was great. And then after that, I was I auditioned for lots of like travelling and jumping around in between. We went to Dubai with that as well, which was uh amazing. Love Dubai. Um and then we went to not we went, I went for an audition for Dirty Dancing. Um and I that was for West End. I got cover first cover Johnny and first cover Robbie in that. Um and then from there oh from there that went straight out on tour afterwards, so I ended up doing West End for a bit and then UK tour for that, and then we actually had an extension to Paris, so I did Paris for a little bit with that as well. Um that was really fun, loved that. Uh Dirty Dancing's a great show. And then after that, I had a couple of months um where oh, and then I went to Chicago asked for my availability, so I went back to I'm literally listing it out like it's this is wild. I didn't expect to do this, but um then I went back with Chicago um to do Japan for a few weeks, which then extended to a full kind of Asia tour. We did a whole bunch of China, um, we did Taiwan, and we also did Abu Dhabi as well. So it was really great to get into do Abu Dhabi and um and Dubai with the same show but at very different times. Um and then when I came back from that, I did a couple of like workshops. Oh, oh, I did uh I did a UK tour for um Saving Grace, the great uh GK Barry, Saving Grace, it's the um it's a podcast, um much, much bigger, bigger podcast, very uh loved over the country. I did a her UK tour um as like kind of stripper uh male entertainer on her podcast, which came on at the end. Um that was that was very fun. That was only for like a month, but I that was around Ireland and and the UK as well. And we got to do the London Palladium with that as well. So that was my second time in West End. Um a lot of fun, really, really enjoyed that. And then shortly after that, I think that was just before my Chicago in Asia. Um so after I came back from Asia, then um I did the midnight. Workshops. Um that was uh with the the new new show by Todric Hall. Um so I got to do that um and then jumped onto Hercules where I played Zeus, play, still play Zeus. Yeah, yeah, that's still still going on, and then still did uh did another w workshop um a couple workshops but another one for midnight um during that time. There's been some like there's been some TV stuff and there's been some um like commercials as well in that time and then and then yeah we've got three I'm currently off at the moment because I've got a little injury um but I'll be back with a few weeks to go in Hercules. Then I've got a little break and then I'm on to a new thing which hasn't actually been announced yet, so I'm not going to say what it is. Um, but something very exciting as well. Um yeah, exciting for the rest of the year. I'm um very much looking forward to it. So yeah, I've been it's been there's been some pantos as well, like I've missed missed some stuff out, but it's been yeah, almost almost 10 years now of um of bouncing around the bounce bouncing around the industry. Very impressive, very impressive CV Yeah, West End touring, cruise, like yeah, I think you've got to see some beautiful places for sure all around the world. Yeah, very lucky. I'm actually planning on doing a very big, very big trip um in just over a year, which is gonna be about a year long. Um I've decided that everything I've kind of done in uh since graduating has been in in pursuit of my career, and I wanted to do something kind of almost to commemorate the 10 years I've been working so far to um take some time for me and do something just for myself. Uh and I absolutely love to travel, I love to explore the world, I love to see new places. Um so I'm doing a it's currently 10 and a half months, but it might be up to a full year around Southeast Asia and Australia and the continent, not just the country. Um and I think it's about 16 countries that I'm gonna take off. So that's that I think that's currently, I mean, subject to change, you know, never know what happens, but currently that's um set for next August. So I'm very excited about that. Um very big, very big trip that I've been planning for a few years now. Um, something to kind of, you know, something for me rather than just you know, career mindset, something that I want to do just for my own personal journey and something that really excites me that I can learn a lot from. Yeah. Okay. All right. So I guess the next question that I'll ask is um what still excites you about performing? Like, why are you still in this industry? Because it is a bit of a hard one to be in in this day and age in terms of like financially and everything like that. So you know, yeah, it it's it's funny because it changes. It changes as as the years have gone on. What's excited me has changed. I think at the beginning of the career, it was kind of everything because the world was my oyster. I was kind of like, um, this excites me, this excites me. I'd I'd see different musicals, I'd see performances, whatever it was, it would all get me riled up because I just wanted to perform full stop. And I think the longer you go on, you start to find more specific avenues that feel more right for you. And also you start to understand your castability, you start to understand what you're good for, and also what you're not good for. So the things that you kind of accept aren't aren't what you're gonna be casting, it doesn't excite you because you're like, well, I'm never gonna, I'm never that's never gonna be what I'm chosen for anyway. Um so I think more recently it's been and I can always tell because I'll see performances, and if it fills me with like excitement, then it's probably something I want to do, and if it doesn't, then it's probably something I'm not too bothered about. Um so and I've been noticing less so from musical theatre recently that it's been hasn't filled me with that excitement the way it that it used to. Um so I'm I'm I'm listening to that. Stunt stunt work is something that's I've really noticed recently has been has really been lighting that fire underneath me. I watched it. I was gonna ask you about this. Yeah. Um first of all, the kind of performing that I love I love commercial dance, I love hip-hop. Um that dancing that is like the most enjoyment I get of dancing any kind of style. Um, so that's a an avenue that I would love love to pursue more, um, along with stunt work. I love throwing myself around, I always have. Um ever since I was a kid, I'd be like out on the trampoline or in the garden, um, just just learning tricks and like falling. And I think that's something that people don't often know how to fall well. And it's difficult to learn, it takes time, and for your body to also just become quite resilient to taking falls well. Um, but I think that's something that I've accidentally through years of throwing myself around, learning tricks, going to gymnastics, um, uh trampolining, all that kind of stuff, doing sports that my body has been preparing for without realizing my entire life. And there's something really satisfying that just makes my adrenaline go up every time that I do a fall um that I know is safe, that I know that I can do well, or even just a trick or anything, uh, or a fight sequence, and everyone reacts like, oh, that must have hurt. When I know probably doesn't tickle, but like I know that it doesn't hurt the way they think it does, but I've been able to sell that experience to them and make it convincing. And that every time I watch a film, I'm no longer watching it through the lens of just people having people, you know, fighting in like a fight sequence where there's a superhero or whatever it is. I'm I'm looking at everything they're doing because I'm I'm training for that, you know. I'm I'm I'm going to classes to to learn these specific um techniques, and so I see what they're doing, and I'm like, oh, I want to do that, and that's where the excitement has started to settle in for me. So there's like I'll always be a performer, I'll always be um a dancer, and I'll always want to keep pursuing that. I'm never gonna put that to the side. Um also never say never with anything, but I think more commercial dance, hip-hop, um, stunt work, and maybe more the acting route as well. I think those are the kind of the areas that, at least right now, you know, everything changes, you know, time goes on. But those are the things that are kind of lighting my fire at the moment for sure. Okay, yeah, lovely. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Right, so the next part we've been on this side of it. The next part of the podcast is if you don't mind reaching underneath your chair. Oh, we're not doing drawings. Yeah, I still want a drawing, thank you. You guys must be like so annoyed with not being at a seat. Because it usually it switches between the cameras, but right now it's literally just me. Um but hey, it's not because I didn't want a face on it. She just didn't want to. Yeah, not right now. Nobody come for me. I've got to prepare myself for that kind of thing. It's all about you today, all about you. So if you don't mind, please reaching over and picking something from that beautiful cup right there. You're a natural natural podcast host. Thank you, thank you. There we go. Take it everyone. A river winding through a town. Right, right. Okay. Good luck with that one. Oh, you know, I'm not doing it. Hey, when I'm hosting, I I I do it as well. There's no need, there's no need. Um, they can see my beautiful artwork on my nail page. Yeah. That's very true. You know, you know what I'm actually learning? What if, because you know, on every podcast I've done, every episode, my drawing tends to come out a little bit better. I wonder whether it's not that I'm better at drawing. Maybe because I'm not having to speak. So maybe if I can't do a good job here, yeah, then maybe it's actually I've just got an advantage in all the other ones, and we find out that I'm actually terrible at it. You have got an advantage, yes, yeah. Quite interesting. Suddenly I don't really want to do it anymore. Let's see how you do. Yeah. Well also, what river goes through through a town? Wasn't it you that wrote? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I mean, ChatGPT helps, but a river winding through a town. Um, can't wait to see what you come up with. Yeah, but while you do that, obviously I'm gonna be asking you questions. So, here we go. So, in terms of the podcast, obviously you've done quite a few episodes now. Um, I guess one of the questions that I want to ask is what conversations have stayed with you um from the previous ones that you've done? I think the things that resonate me with me the most are um these look like fish. Why am I doing this? Um the ones where they're heavy stories that I really wasn't expecting. So we had uh Juan on I think he was like the third episode, um, and there's a lot that he shared with me that I just I had no idea about him. Um and so it's when it's a a much deeper connection to that person though, I'd than I was ever expecting. Um when they have stories that I was that I didn't know about them because I only knew them on a surface level. So it's not for just for people at home, it's the fact that I don't necessarily know them as well um as I could as well. So I'm learning just as much as you are about them in them in the moment. Um so I'd say when it's deeper things, I know about um Liam and OP were both um both adopted and that was that was beautiful to learn about as well. So it's one of the things I think the things that stay with me more so than than you know what's your favourite colour are the the questions that I ask that really dive into the unusual history that's very unique to each person um that not everybody can relate to, you know. So I'd say that. Okay. All right. I wrote three lines in that um all right. So next question. Um our industry is quite a tough one when it comes to like social life as well as like family life and stuff like that. Um, do you find it easy trying to maintain um a balance between obviously visiting family? Because um I don't know if anyone else out there knows this, but you not being from London um and you coming from the countryside. What do you mean I don't sound like I'm from London? I mean I think the the viewers would be able to maybe put in the comment section if you do or not, but from my opinion, maybe maybe not quite that. Uh but yeah, in terms of just being able to keep that balance, like do you find it easy? Is it something that you struggle with? Uh I think that I it could be uh it could definitely be a lot better than it is. You know, uh within theatre, obviously it's it's usually it's one uh one day off a week. You've got eight shows, which means you've literally got your Sunday, most of the time it's a Sunday, to spend with friends, to see family, whatever it is. Um, and it's not it's not much at all. So I am fairly limited, just like everyone is with the free time that I have to uh to spend with family or friends. Um and yeah, it does make it it does make it more difficult than than I would like. Um But there's been you know there's blessings in in the midst sometimes, like even with being injured right now. Um it means I do have a little bit more time to spend with friends. I got to go up north and see my parents for a little bit longer. Um I've got my my sisters getting married in in a few weeks, uh two weeks, I think. Um so I get to go up to Liverpool and watch that. And those are those are love really lovely events that I wouldn't usually be around to be able to enjoy, especially Christmases. Even Christmases are really hard because you know I'm either sometimes I'm not even in the country. I don't think we've had I think we've had probably in the last 10 years had one Christmas where me and my brother and my sister have all been home for Christmas. Usually one of us, most of the time, me, are away. Um which is which is a real shame because Christmas Day is actually one of my favourite times of the year to be with family. Um so yeah, it definitely could be could be better. Um I think sometimes it's down to me as well. I don't think it's just always industry, but I do think the industry has a big say in how much time I have to spend with people. Can I use your pen? This is dying. Yeah, I'm definitely slower now. I'm answering the questions, that's for sure. Thank you. There you go. No, I'm trying to have a little glimpse. I'm not really seeing much of this. I'm not gonna give it, I'm not gonna give the glimpse. Come on. I'm not really going to do that. So I see if I'm actually got the talent behind it or I'm just uh blagging it every day. Right. Interesting. Okay, fair enough. So do you feel like so? Obviously, you said that you do like touring and stuff like that, and travelling and all those kind of um amazing stuff. But in terms of all of that, what do you think when you are touring is something that a lot of people out there don't necessarily know about and um things that you have experienced that you wouldn't have necessarily thought you would have experienced while touring? Say that again. So when you're touring and stuff like that, there's certain things that pop up that you don't necessarily think about when you are just doing a normal nine to five kind of job and stuff like that, yeah. Um or even just doing West End. Uh so what kind of things do you feel like those are? I mean, there's I mean, there's so many. I think just in theatre in general, there's a lot of ways that people don't understand the industry. Um but specifically with touring, I'd say it's for example, the the accommodation is a huge, huge part of that. People have no idea how difficult it is to be in one often, I mean it's not always the case, but in the tours that I've done, it's often weekly touring. So you're in a new city or new town every other week that's usually halfway up the country from the last place that you were, and you've got one day to get there. Um, and that is also your day off to relax as well. Um, you have to organise it yourself. Um, you get money towards your accommodation, but you have to sort it all yourself, especially when college doesn't teach you about it, it makes it extra difficult. Because, for example, the first tour, I think I was saying with hope on a previous podcast that that I didn't know how it worked, so I was ended ended up staying and nobody told me, nobody taught me. So I ended up staying in some really awful places and really uncomfortable um scenarios, and a tour is only as good as the accommodation, that's what I found. Um, at this point it's fine because I'm I've experienced enough tours that I'm like I can be way ahead of the game. I've I could get my tour digs booked like a year in advance, like be on it so I can get the best places. But if you're left left, leave it to the last minute, all the good places are gone. Um, and people don't help you unless you ask. But if you don't know what you're asking for, I think touring is a very mixed bag. Um, people don't realise how difficult it is to do. Um, especially that's UK touring, international touring, they do sort your accommodation for you and travel, fortunately. Um I think another part of that is what else is difficult? Um yeah, well living out of a suitcase. Living out of a suitcase is is something I've gotten very used to and adapted to to a point where I almost enjoy it, which is kind of crazy to say. Um, especially having been in London London for a year, I'm like, oh kind of I'm ready to kind of get back out on the road a little bit. But um yeah, I would say people don't r fully understand what it feels like to constantly live out of a suitcase um and not have all your stuff with you and be reusing the same items week in, week out. Um although I am kind of itching to do that again, which is a problem. Um, hence why I've I've created this big tour this big trip that I'm gonna do next year where I'll actually only be living out of a backpack for a year, which is crazy, but actually it kind of excites me because I'm gonna sucker for pain, whatever. Yeah, this is harder to do for sure. Like I can see you struggling. I can see you struggling. Not so not so smug now, eh? Hey, well, wait till you see it, might be great. I don't know. Might um probably won't be. Okay. Alright, so another question. What kind of legacy would you want to leave in the theatre or entertainment kind of world? I'd I'm not I'm not fussed about a legacy. Um like I guess legacy being what you're remembered for, is that what you kind of mean? Yeah. Um legacy is a strong word. Like, I don't mind making sounds bad. I don't mind not making a difference. Does that make sense? Like, I'm not here for like glory and fame or whatever it is. I I value my privacy, I value enjoying my time to myself. Um I don't want that to be ruined. I think more I just want stability, I want enjoyment and I want peace. Um and so yeah, it's nice if people remember like, oh, I watched you in that, and that was like really, really great. Like it's it's lovely to have that. Um, but honestly, I kind of just want to do a little bit of everything. By the time I finish my career, I want to have have done everything that I wanted to do and be really proud of what I've done. Um that's kind of more my more my goal than I need to be known for being this person of doing this, or like to be remembered for like it doesn't really bother me, you know. We're all gonna die, you know, we're all temporary, yeah. We're all only on this earth for a little bit, so it doesn't matter. Um as long as I'm like if I sacrifice everything just to be known, then like I'm not actually enjoying my life anyway. So yeah, I'd much rather I'd much rather just do things that make me happy. Um and not this is hard. I mean, this is so easy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it looks easy to do. To be fair, I'm not doing a bad job in fairness. Okay, that's just a bit slower than usual. Okay, alright. So do you do you need more questions? Do you think do you think you're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I need I need another one. I'm not I'm not ready yet. So, how about we um we say maybe one more question? See how much you can get done in that in that bit of time. Mm-hmm. Make it an easy one, thank you. An easy one. Yeah, yeah, because I've I'm not nearly done yet, so okay. Alright, fair enough. Let's do it then. Um alright, so you did bring up the fact of stunt work um and stuff like that. In terms of what you're doing in Hercules as we speak, is there a way that you're able to kind of bring that? You know there is. You know there is. Um, yeah, so I play so as I said, I play Zeus in Hercules. Um and I'm a little bit of a what is it, a glutton for pain? No. Is that I've I've got a little bit of a habit of going being a bit extra and going out and giving my best and probably more than is actually necessary to give on certain things. Um probably to a point where it actually doesn't benefit my my body. Um, but when I was because it was kind of like it was a new musical um when we were in rehearsals, um, there's a fight, there's a fight scene at the end um where Hades becomes a giant monster and starts spoiler alert. Uh if you haven't seen the film, that's not my fault. Um and starts, you know, killing all the all the people like fighting all the uh the Olympus gods and the and the the villagers from Thebes and stuff. Um and he has a fight with Hercules and Zeus at the beginning of that before all the villagers get involved. And you know, I think the it was always just uh you know get hit by the hand and like fall. But I was like, well, I'm literally training for a career to make this look good and to make this look um believable. So I was like, let me let me give everything that I can to it. So I will I'll end up doing like flips and landing on my back, or um again going for that reaction and the audience of ooh, and like throwing myself hard like into a pillar and then like hitting the floor and stuff like that, just because I wanted to, you know, still incorporate the things that I really enjoy into the job I'm currently doing, even though it's not technically what's being asked of me. Um so yeah, I definitely do that a lot. Um gives me bruises, but I don't I don't regret it. I think it's I I love doing that. Then there's um I guess I try and incorporate different things. Obviously, that the boot the booming voice of Zeus, I was like, I need to uh create that, and so what I did with that was I I used to beatbox uh because I was a drummer when I grew up, so beatboxing kind of went alongside that um and that kind of rhythm. Um so I decided to use like the growl that I would have from the from the beatboxing um to add it to the voice of Zeus. So like on some of the some of his like angry kind of lines or where he'd be like shouting at Hades or whatever it is, I would put that like the deep vocal growl underneath to make it like hit more rather than just shouting, especially when you've got like a 2000-something seat theatre to fill, even with a mic on, you need it to s to go over that battle cry, over that um the the sound and the the how loud everything is of the battle. You need it to like stand out. So rather than just shouting, uh I don't think I have like a particularly high-pitched voice anyway, but I don't want it to sound just like a guy. I wanted to sound it like you know he's a he controls the the lightning and thunder, and almost like that thunder is in his voice as well. So that's kind of where I went with that. And I felt that my beatboxing kind of past had a lot of help to do with that. So I feel like I've brought a lot to the character of Zeus. It wasn't necessarily asked of me, but that I to make it my own, you know. I feel like I've done that quite well. Okay. All right. Well, I feel like that I didn't do anything on it. What's it? I just feel like that's enough questions, no? I feel like it may be time for you to to show us what. Wow, the ending. I didn't do anything on that last question. You didn't? I didn't. No, did I? No. Well I think it's I think it's time. I think we'd love to see and have a lovely reveal if you don't mind. Oh, the ending was Okay, yeah, this is not as good as my other ones. Um I should have done. Too late. Okay. This is what I came up with. Okay. Um, yeah, it's not as I didn't have time. So I kind of ended here. Um, and then you were like, okay, now let's try. And like I just added this bit, and you can tell this is the rush and this is the rest of it. Um I would have liked to because I was like, what river runs through a town? Like, unless you're in like Amsterdam or something. I don't know. Um, necessarily thinking about this. But yeah, so I've got some houses and then the river. It's not bad. Like the walkway, and then it's not bad. I think I would have liked to had it going off into the distance and some hills. Is that bad? Um, greenery that I'm seeing that. Yes, little bits of grass, because I wanted you to know that that's grass and not just nothing. Nothing. Yeah. So it could be better. I'm not going to take a picture with myself with this because I don't think that's necessary. Um, but yeah, there you go. I guess it's interesting in that position for you to actually experience, isn't it? It's uh I don't like it. It's not it's not my best work. Um, and so we figured out that actually if you have more brain capacity, it uh you can do a better job. Yeah. So yeah. Oh well done, that one well done. Thank you for doing that. You're very welcome. Um, in terms of the next thing that we want to ask, it's I feel like we should really I hope you're being heard by this. Oh, sorry. You can just see this is just not natural for me, isn't it? This is a very thrown together episode, isn't it? If you can tell. Very much so. Um did want to do some fire questions with you. All right, but they are gonna have to just come from the top of my head because I don't actually have any information. So it's more quick fire for you than it is quick fire for me. Pretty much, yeah. So we're testing me right now, I guess. Um which wasn't the point of this. No, it wasn't. So uh enjoy that, everyone. Hit me. I'm ready. All right, do you prefer the hot or cold? I prefer I prefer the hot, but I'm much better with the cold. I sweat a lot. I can be out in a t-shirt in like snow, it would doesn't bother me. Um so I'm my body is better and more suited to cold, but I prefer the hot weather because who doesn't? That's just a normal thing. It's nice, the sun's good. Are you more of a morning person or are you? No, I'm in uh I'm a night owl. Like I'll go I'll go to bed late and I'll I'll I'll wake up very late as well. Yeah, I hate being up early in the morning. Fair enough. All right, do you prefer more hot food or sweet food? Sweet food. Sweet. Oh hot as in spicy. Yeah. I mean I like spicy food, but definitely sweet. Can you handle spicy food? I can a lot better than I used to. Probably my tolerance has gone down a little bit now, but I'm not having it as much. But I do I do like it. I can handle it quite well. I just sweat a lot. Okay. Um, night in or night out? Night in. I'm night outs are very rare, probably like once a month or maybe even that and that. But a night night in, like just watching films, love it. Yeah, that's my okay. That's my bag. Do you prefer to stay in hotel kind of setting or more camping? Oh, both. It def depends. Like I'm very I used to go camping all the time when I was uh when I was a kid, my parents used to take me camping. Um so I very much and that that that kind of backpacker style, I'm very used to it and very comfortable in it, and very good at just adapting to environments. So I actually do love camping, but also I'm quite bougie. So I like I do like I do like a nice hotel as well, of course. So it depends on the it depends on the environment or what what's going on. I'd say probably more often than not, um, the the hotel, but I think it's very you get a coziness from camping that you just can't replicate with the hotel. Okay, do you feel weird looking at the camera whilst not completely ignoring or not even acknowledging you. I'm not here. I'm not used to this. I'm not here, I'm just a voice. I'm just a voice. Um Do you prefer the country life or the like London life? Uh London life because I like to be close to the action. I don't like being far away from like career and progression and like I like a routine, I like a schedule, I like to be organized, and I find that difficult to do in the country because it's not a lot to do. Although I do really like going to the country to get to get away, to breathe into proper air, because I love I love a view. It's why I love travelling, I love to see, I love to go up to a high point and just like take in the sights and just be really appreciative and make the most of like of the of of nature, you know. I love that. Yeah, okay. And you don't get that in London much, unless you're in a park. Yeah, not at all. Um silver or gold jewellery. Silver. Hands down. I thought that was gonna be the answer as well. I just thought maybe. I think I can pull off gold too much. More more plain. Fair enough. Well, I think I think that's all I can really come up with. I have rambled for a good amount of time. Um I don't know how much we're gonna have to. There's one more thing. Oh embarrassing, embarrassing moment. You always do this. Oh, I do, I do. I mean, I've had oh, you know me, most of my moments are embarrassing. Or usually I'll embarrass someone else. That's kind of my my thing. Um I think for an audition though, I did have oh, there was one in the show. I was in Dubai. I was in Dubai circa 20 something. Um yeah, it was I was doing um I was doing Chicago at the massive theatre right by the Burge, Burj Khalifa. Um, and I completely forgot my line. Basically, I played Fred Casely. I come on in the courtroom scene in the second act, um, and I go up to the girl playing Roxy. Um, and it's all very like it's on beats, it's very heavily like linked with the band. So it's like bam, bam, what do you say? You say like if you miss a beat, then like the whole thing kind of goes off. It's almost like kind of like a dance, like a rhythm. Um so I I come on for my bit, and I'm supposed to go, I can't live without you, I can't live without you, I can't live without you. At the same time, she's in a chair, um, and she does these little like bunny hop jumps out of the chair as I do that, uh, and then I walk off stage again. I then have a I come on later and I say I say a line, um, it doesn't matter, you're mine, you're mine, you're mine, and I mind slapping her, right? I'd got the lines confused because there's like can't live without you say three times, and you're mine, you say three times. Um, so I came on, obviously wasn't quite thinking about it properly, grabbed her hand, did the bunny hops, but said, It doesn't matter, which is the start of my line for the next scene. Um, but then obviously knew that I'd said it wrong and didn't want to say it again. So the first jump, I said, It doesn't matter, and then she just did two jumps in complete silence, and everyone just went and like tried to like they were like holding back tears. Um, the audience, very obvious, it wasn't one thing that you could like cover up. The whole audience was like, Something's happened here. So instead of being like, Yeah, yeah, what do I go on and say? Um, I can't live with that, I can't load it, I can't just load it. And then walk off. I just went, it doesn't matter. And then like literally like sulks off stage, and everyone was like, and because everyone stood like on the bandstand, just looking up front, trying not to try not to laugh or make any expression. That was very embarrassing. Then I had to come on and then do the actual scene that starts with it doesn't matter, just to prove to the audience, yeah, I wasn't supposed to do that. Now you know it's definitely very embarrassing. Um other than that, it would have been my first ever audition where I just landed flat on my face when we went in threes. Oh uh didn't get the job. I was gonna ask if you did. No, okay. No, I didn't. So those were the two. Uh two pretty embarrassing. There's probably many, but those are the two. To be fair, it was meant to be one, so I appreciate you you giving us two. Hey, when you I've done this a few times now, so I've had to think just in case I'm ever asked. What about yours? And there's something in the tank. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so if you don't mind closing off this that I can do. Thank you guys uh for watching this very impromptu episode of In Plain Clothes, getting to know me a little bit better. Uh I wasn't planning to do this today, but I think it's quite nice. You know, it's nice to actually talk a little bit about myself when it's um, you know, when I'm the host, I don't get to do that a huge amount. So it's nice. And I hope you get you guys have enjoyed lit learning a little bit more about my life and where I've come from. And also thank you to Piget, who you can't see um due to her instructions, um, for asking these questions and thank you to ChatGPT for helping coming up with some of the questions uh that you've asked me as well. Um, and I'm sure for the next one, Piget will be uh helping with the cameras again, and I'll have another guest on. So be sure to check this out on YouTube or Spotify. It is just a single camera frame uh for this one, but uh I appreciate you guys and let me know who you'd like me to get on in the next one as well. See you later.