Episode 11 - Hope Dawe

Hope joins me on the pod talking all things life, work and her new exciting business taking over the West End.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of In Playing Close. Thanks for watching. Today's guest, we've got another wonderful female female female sounds awful, doesn't it? Female girl, woman on the couch. Very excited. She only graduated from Matt View a couple of years ago, but she's already taken the industry by storm, including having played Sandy in Greece on the UK tour, Belle in Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella in Cinderella, and most recently Alternate Alley in the original West Endcast of Burlesque. Now having created a brand new exciting business, which we'll hear more about soon. She'll also be returning to the London Palladium this Christmas. Welcome to the show, Hope Door.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Hey! How are you doing? I'm good, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Welcome to the studio. It's nice to see you.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

I literally was just, I know I've already said this, but it is so lovely in here.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, I really I always always love having new people on. And always love always love when people appreciate the uh you know the the decor. The art decor, as it were.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah, it's gorgeous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Well, tell us a little bit about you because um I don't know you particularly well. Obviously, I saw you in burlesque. You were covering Ali, which is or covering alternate, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Alternate and covering, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Um and actually when I first saw it, you were on, so you were the first Ali I ever saw it. No way! Um and it was yeah, I had a thought amazing. So tell us a little bit about how you got into theatre, like where did you train, where'd you grow up? What was your what's your story?

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Yeah, um, I feel like I started quite late. I don't feel like I was really in, you know how like some people are like go to Sylvia Young or like do the whole like they're really in it. I wasn't really into it that much. I actually love drumming like for most of my like Yeah, for most of my early like teens. I wanted to be a drummer, like I was a drummer too.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, I love drums. Like they are they yeah, that was my that was like my dream. I was like, I'm gonna go to uni, I'm gonna do music, I'm gonna be a drummer. And then my music teacher forced me to do school of rock at school when I was like 14, 15, maybe 14 or 15, was like um as in the musical, as in the musical school of rock, because they needed a female bassist, and I also played bass a bit, so I said, okay, fine, I'll do it. And then I had like four singing lines, and I was like, I found my purpose. This feels like that. And that was that felt yeah, so then I sort of got into it um and sort of made friends from that. And one of my friends when I was in year what, year, what is it, 12? Is that when you finish?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, I think year 11 to the last year. Year 11, year 11.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

That's it. Um, one of my friends who I'd made on that and she did theatre, she was like, I'm auditioning for colleges to do musical theatre, and I'm gonna go to a school called Emildale Academy and apply. And I was like, Oh, maybe I'll just maybe I'll do it too. And then went and got a place there, so did two years there when I was 16, then went to Mount View for three years, which was like just the best time ever, and yeah, and then from there just carried on, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, it's so funny that you've said because you've actually matched kind of my journey quite similarly. I was um funnily enough, it's so in school I got into my brother was a drummer, yeah, a very, very good drummer, and then it kind of got me into it as well. We had a drum kit in the house, and then during school, uh senior school, yeah, uh, we had something called School of Rock. Now that's why I says we had they used to go around schools and put on an after school club called School of Rock, where they teach a lot of instruments like guitar, bass, uh drums, that kind of thing. Uh, and so throughout my I guess tenure at senior school, I would um I learned lots of different instruments. I was in lots of bands, um, doing lots of like cover stuff and making our own stuff. And it was very much um I that was what I focused on until school musicals came along. Um and then they were like, Oh, do you want to try this? And I went, Oh, this is fun. So I literally did the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Drums are the best.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Oh, they are, they're so much fun. Um, and you do kind of dip into different instruments as well when you because anything rhythm section is.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

It just feels similar to drums. I think that's why I then was like, I'm gonna play the bass.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, because it feels yeah, it's just it's all the rhythm sections, so it's all kind of like go with each other. But I diff definitely did like miss being able to drum regularly. It's still something that I miss, and I just don't love to do it. And I remember on my first job I did Mamma Mira on cruise ship. Oh nice on Royal Caribbean, uh, and then Elvis Impresley uh Elvis Impresley Impersonator came on the ship because you know you have um uh the guests that come on um just to do like a show for like a few days or a week and then they go off. Yeah. Um so we had that, and the drummer for the band that always does the the guest entertainers, uh he had just recently had his like teeth some teeth taken out, and he was so drugged up that he was like just kind of out of it. I think his wisdom teeth got taken out. Um and so they were like, right, we need to look around the ship for the other drummers. Now there's there's lots of bands, there's like the jazz band, there's all this kind of stuff. But basically, he'd already learnt all the Elvis songs that he needed. Yeah. Um and all the other drummers on the ship couldn't read music. So they were all like, this was happening in two days. No way, and they didn't have a drummer for the Elvis band that they needed. So so I had always been in the pit, kind of just like getting to play as much as I wanted anyway. Uh and the MD was like, Joel, can you read music? I was like, Yeah, I was trying for it. And he was like, Could you learn an Elvis show within like two days? I was like, if you gave me the backing tracks and you gave me this cheap music, I'd do it I can do it. And so yeah, so I went on, even though I was there for Mamma Mia, literally crazy playing a professional show for Elvis Presley Impersonator, and I remember that because it was still like the full um like Mamma Mia Theatre, so it was still like one 2,000 seat theatre. Wow. And remember halfway through, he was I mean, it wasn't perfect, obviously, it was only like a couple of days training.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

No, I couldn't I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

It was it was like I was so nervous, but I was so excited as well. He was like, So our drummer today is currently cover sky in Mamma Mia. Nice crazy the best experience. That's what my CV that you had like 18 minutes. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

What is in that you did the drumming for it?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, it was a professional credit, you know. I'm putting that on.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

It was yeah, so it's so funny that we've had very parallel uh growing up experiences with drumming. Yeah. We'll have to find a way to get a band together as a next time, wait, is this camera? Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Next time we'll bring drumsticks and perform.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So after you went to college, how did you find college? Was it a good experience for you?

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Um, yeah, it was I absolutely loved my time. Like, particularly at Mount View, I feel like it really catered to who I am, like as a performer.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Um, I I haven't got a bad word to say. I absolutely loved it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

That's actually been quite common with people that have had on the server. They've always said that they loved it, and I feel like it's very um hit and miss because a lot of people don't love their college experience, depending on where they went and stuff. But yeah, it's nice to hear that you don't have anything bad to say about it. No, I loved it. Yeah. Was it easy going from college into the the industry? What did you had you booked before you'd graduated? What was the yeah?

SPEAKER_03 7:26

So I booked Greece. I was really lucky to have got the audition just before I did my third year show. And I booked Sandy way before we graduated. I actually graduated about a month after I finished. No, before I finished, sorry. Right, okay. So I'd done all of Greece and then I graduated a month after. No, a month before the end. Sorry. No, that's okay. Yeah. Um I feel like it definitely did. There were so many things that I learned on that job that, like, now looking back, I would do lots of things so differently. But at the time, I feel like Mountview did give me everything they could have given me to prep me for that. But there's some stuff that, as you know, like until you're actually doing it, you don't realise a lot of like even the mechanics of like weekly touring. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't book most of my digs. I ended up on people's sofas. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

And I was saying my first UK tour was brutal. I ended up in some like basements and like some really dodgy situations. Really bad. Just because you don't know, because they don't prep you for that at college.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

They don't prep you for it. And like I feel like that was the main thing, if I could take away from it, that yeah, I just didn't know what I was doing a lot of the time. Even things like tech, like when you get there with the show teching, like mic check, you know, like even your touring box, all of these things that I just didn't know what I was doing. And so I think now I would feel so much better equipped. I'd be like, I need this, like, make sure you've got this. Don't buy lots of things while you're on tour all the time because you can't fit it anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like it was always just like Was it one day off eight shows a week as well? So you're you because you because technically they they class your morning of the Monday as your travel. So you have the Sunday off, but everyone travels on the Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Everyone travels on Sunday, so it's and there were a few times where I travelled on the Monday, and then we'd get there, and I was just shattered. Like, especially if you sat on a train for like five, four or five hours, I would get there for sound check like this.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. It's never it's never clever the way it's it's like I I'm going on tour soon and it's it's like Edinburgh, Brighton, Glasgow. Like it's never like clever next to each other, it's always halfway up the country, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Wherever it is. And you end up back at a venue that you were there like you weren't far three weeks ago. And I think, gosh, it would have been nice if we went at all. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it did otherwise amazing.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Okay, well, let me ask you a little bit about um well, actually, before I got onto that, how was playing Ali in Valeste? Because that was you was it your West End debutes? My West End debut and being like alternate for the lead. Yeah. Obviously, there's a lot of pressure because of Christina Aguilera being the one that played it in the film. Yeah. What was your process with like kind of coming to terms with that and being okay with like handling that pressure?

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah, I mean, Jess, who was playing Ali, Jess Folly, love her so much. But she, you know, instantly when we when I met her and I was talking, so she's obviously done it for so so long. Yeah, I feel like she was really good at sort of grounding the like, it's your version, it's your version. We aren't playing Christina. I think that was that was sort of the hardest thing. Yeah, when I booked it, I remember being so excited for about 10 minutes, and then for about 15, being like, I can't do it. Yeah, like how am I supposed to do that? Like, that feels so crazy. And then I feel like speaking to her was really helpful because she was like, I don't play Christina, yeah. I play Ali. And like I kind of was like, Oh, that's really true. And obviously, you have the Christina isms that you can't lose because it it makes it.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

But no one can be Christina other than Christina, like she's too iconic, so you have to find your own. If you try and be her, it's only gonna feel like oh it's it's not gonna work. Do you know what I mean? You can only do it justice by being your own version of the character, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

100%. And I think the story is different from the film. Sorry, not that's fine, um, the story is different from the film. So, you know, it also wasn't even I feel like it didn't feel at all like you were trying to replicate the film like Christina in the film either, which was nice. Um but it definitely was a lot of pressure, and I think as alternate and you know, like when you're covering and things, yeah, it's hard because you don't get to practice and so then I think I think that was the hardest thing was getting those songs into my body enough to be able to go out there and do it, but not having the prep that you would if you were playing it is hard.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, um quite a quick rehearsal period as well, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Yeah, it wasn't crazy, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't a super long time. Um, and I think also for me, having never been in any of the previous iterations because it did Manchester and things, yeah, I was learning all of the new material that I'd never heard before. And there were bits where obviously because Jess knew it, you would kind of skim over it because it was like she knows it, and I'd be like, I don't know it at all. So it was just a lot of like honestly, in that rehearsal room, people thought I was like the most boring person ever because I just used to sit there like this. Because I was like, if I don't look for one second, I think I'm gonna lose what we're doing. Um but yeah, that's sort of how I kept up. I just know, yeah. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Well, moving on from that, you just started a business, right? Yes, fairly recently. Tell us about that because it's I don't I'm not, and obviously no, it's like singing based around singing, so yeah, please tell tell us what it's about.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Hey, so it's called the Voice Collective, which I basically I'll start with why I started, I don't think that makes the most sense. Um actually, no, I should start with what it is because that doesn't make any sense. Um it's basically one-to-one singing tuition, but we offer also like masterclasses and workshops and things. There's a lot of things in the works at the minute, but the whole point was to try and make singing accessible to people that can't afford it. Um, I think that was sort of where it first sent from. I I was scrolling through Instagram and I just kept seeing all of these dance videos of people like um going to class, and you know, you can pay £10 and go to a dance class at Pineapple every day, but there isn't something like that for singing. Um, and I sort of realised how how inaccessible it is for people. Um even like whilst I was training, I remember so many people would be talking about singing lessons, and the reason why most people don't keep it up is because it's so exp it's so expensive. Um and I'd I've spoken about quite a bit before that it's a really hard grey area because a lot of singing teachers, not all, but a lot of singing teachers are also creatives themselves and need to be paid appropriately for their time, which is why it's a higher rate. Um but yeah, I just realized there's this like massive pool of people that are therefore not able to access it at all. Um so yeah, so I started that up. It's like been just crazy. The response has been crazy. Um I feel like it's it's gone in a way I never expected it to, which is really exciting. But yeah, so we do like a pay what you can scheme where um people who can't afford um our base rate, yeah, we have a conversation, we chat, and we find a price that is good for them. So um yeah, it's been I'd actually probably say I'd want to say 60% of the people that I teach are on the pay what you can. So they are paying less than what it would be normally.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

That's such a beautiful way to do it because so many people would want. I imagine there's yeah, a huge um demographic that would really benefit and love to have something in lessons but just can't afford it.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Um so it's so nice that you're offering a service where people are able to still get that. Um in a part of an industry that is just not not available. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Yeah, it's been yeah, it's been really crazy. I think you forget the demographic of like I have a lot of single parents who email us and chat to me, and like that feeling of your child wanting to do it, and you just kind of I I can't put myself in that position of what that must feel like. Yeah to want to be able to offer it to your children and you're not able to.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Um, and also like I I think the lessons are the lessons are really good as well. It's not like you're paying £15 for some, you know, I don't I should say anyone. But yeah, like we're not gonna sit and go, right, sing on a la and then we're gonna just sing it. It's like we really I really do fledge it out and make sure that everyone gets the same amount of time and energy. And yeah, so it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

That's beautiful, lovely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

And where can people find that if they're interested in you can go over to the Instagram page, um, which is voice collective UK, and then on there in our link, we have the website where you can like apply um exciting stuff.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Well, hopefully some of you out there will uh yeah, come join us be interested.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Well, moving on from that, we're gonna go on to draw or distract. I imagine you've maybe checked out some of the videos before. Yeah, so this is um there's not actually a lot of unless you watch the full podcast. I don't put a lot of the reels of draw distract on it on my Instagram. So um we'll see how you do. How is your drawing skills?

SPEAKER_03 16:48

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I actually am okay, but under pressure it's going to be when you've got like deep detailed questions to and have to answer at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

You'll be getting something.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, yeah. Um so you know the drill. Yeah, there is uh a piece of paper in that glass, you're gonna pick one out. Whatever's on the piece of paper, we're gonna draw.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Oh, in that glass. I I thought you pointed to the water, then I was like, Yeah, just put your hand in the glass of water and keep rummaging around till you find something. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, go for it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

No, I've always have the much easier job because I just have to ask the question, then I can focus on the drawing.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Cinema Auditorium. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

That's rough. Okay, yeah. Okay. Okay. And I'm gonna ask you some questions. You ready for this?

SPEAKER_03 17:35

I'm literally.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

And you've got you've got multiple questions to do this in, so it's not like you have to do it within like two, you know. Okay, great. You got time?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Make it as detailed, Picasso-esque as you want. Okay. Okay, first question. What is a childhood moment that you still carry with you today?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Oh, that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

That could be positive or negative, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

A childhood memory. Actually, do you know what? I've got one. So every year when I was from when I was like maybe 11, we used to go to um like the Channel Islands with like loads of my really close family friends, and we were all like kids, and we went to this island called Aldeny, which is literally like one mile by like three miles or so. It's tiny. We would stay in an old people's home that had been abandoned. And yeah, I know, in like sleeping bags. There was like mould everywhere. It was literally like the worst thing ever, really. Like, it should have been terrible. But it was honestly, like, we went every year until COVID. It was just like the best. I honestly cannot explain to you the best memories ever. Like me, my brother, all of our like family friends. It was so fun. My mum and my dad, like everyone, it was like it was the place to be. Like, really, yeah, it was so fun. I feel like it could have been awful as well. And like, if I'd have gone now at my age and turned up to an abandoned old person.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, it's a different mindset, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 19:11

I've literally gone, I'm not I'm not staying here. Like, this is awful. But it was just like we just had the best time.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It's just it's the simple things when you're a kid, that th those memories, that family time, just it's it's everything, even though it is now you'd be like, What?

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Now I'm like, you wouldn't catch me dead at an old people's home that has been abandoned. Yeah, but it was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Were you emotionally understood as a kid?

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Emotionally understood.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

That could be at school by like peers or friends, or it could be by your family.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

I was quite bullied when I was at school, when I was like a lot younger. Like everyone always laughs at the photos of me because it is funny, but I was literally like like Armageddon or something. Like, I don't know how I had any friends because I was literally the scariest looking child ever, and everyone can attest to it. It is really bad. Um, and I feel like what then kind of happened was because I feel like I was teased a bit and things, I feel like well, when I was at primary school, I was really eccentric. I would say I was quite eccentric, but I was also really shy. I was like uh kind of like I am now when I'm comfortable, I'm like, yay, like excited, and when I'm not, I'm literally like I go really awkward. So I think it was kind of that. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like by like my family, yes. Maybe peers not as much. If I think that's quite common.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

I think that's just like everyone. Absolutely. Yeah. What part of your personality took the longest for you to accept?

SPEAKER_03 20:51

How impulsive I am. I'm so exceptionally impulsive, and I feel like I also have a very big ability to be able to like I get over everything very, very quickly. And I think it's from kind of that like impulsive like brain of I sort of have this thing where if I don't see someone for a long time, I forget they exist.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

But it's not in like a really that sounds really like awful, but I really struggle with sort of yeah, like I have to really force myself to speak to people because I can suddenly realize like, oh my gosh, I've forgotten that person exists. Yeah. But that sounds like I'm wrapped up in my own role. It's not that, it's like genuinely is just like just I think it comes from the impulsiveness of like.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

You're just very kind of in the moment, in the present, and anybody that's there right that second is a little bit more. Exactly. I get that.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yeah, when you're in when you're in my circle, you're like so in it. Like I'll be like obsessed with you all the Time I'm like, come do this with me, let's do this. And when you're not, I find it yeah, like I detach quite easily, which is good, but I also find that sometimes it's like I wonder if it's a bit of like a coping mechanism mechanism. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Have you dug into why you think that would have what that would have stemmed from?

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Good question.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

You don't have to go into it.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

No, I think. Do you know what I think? So in my first year of drama school, my dad passed away.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Which was in an accident. So he was, yeah, it wasn't like not that it was supposed to happen, but um it was an accident and it was sort of a massive shock to everyone, including me. And I think probably honestly, since then, it's that copomancanism of like don't get too attached.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Not thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yeah, not getting too attached, trying not to think about, you know, if you spend every day thinking about the things you've lost or the people you don't see anymore, or things like that, then it can become really all absorbing. And so I think I think probably, honestly, that's probably where it came from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Okay. That makes a lot of sense. All right. Well, thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Which parent or family figure influenced you the most, positively or negatively?

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Um probably my mum, my mum is a musician, and I feel like growing up I was always in that kind of creative world. At the time, I like I hated it because I was like, I don't want to go and listen to a concert right now. Um, but actually it really opened up sort of the like door for music. That's why I got into drumming the first thing because I was constantly picking up new instruments to try and impress also. Did you see what I've done so far?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I got a peek and it actually looks really good. I was like, oh, are you drumming?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

It's not. This is so funny. Yeah. So I feel like being around her and being in that environment was like such a positive impact for me, and also meant that like she's very similar to me, where we love like fads. So we'll be obsessed with something for like five minutes and then we'll drop it. But it was kind of good that she also is like that, and it meant that it wasn't like when I was like, I wanna be a then when I was like, I want to do musical theatre, it was never discouraged or anything like that. That's beautiful, which I think is nice.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Um and then I think You're very similar to your mum, you say.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah, I yes, yeah, yeah. She'll have listened to this as well. Annoyingly so similar. Um give it what's her name? Jane.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Hi, Jane. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

She'll love that. She'll let you be so obsessed with that. Um yeah, we're very similar. Yeah. Which is why we will like when we're, because we both are like also avoidance of like really simple tasks. Like tax.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Obviously, I've done it, but as in it, she'll be like, do it. And we're so similar in the sense of like all it takes is five seconds, but that task feels monumental to me. I'm like, oh gosh, I don't know if I could do that, but then ask me to like do something like I don't know, actually, I don't know what I would do, but I'd be more like, yeah, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Like you said, when you're when you shared that your dad passed away.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Did you find that that brought you two closer together as well?

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Definitely. Yeah. So it's me, my mum, and my brother. And I think I honestly think if anyone has been through that when you lose a parent, I think it just does. It just does bring people. You have to, I think, is the thing like they're the only person that gets together. They're the only person, yeah. And I think all of us really bonded together in a way that we I don't think I ever had, and I actually don't think we ever would have in in if he was still alive.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

I I don't think we would have the dynamic So it's almost something beautiful from something. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

What fear quietly controls more of your life than you would like?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Fear. Probably is the fear of losing people. Okay. I was saying this the other day. My um my friend didn't reply to me for like maybe half an hour, but we'd been talking and they were like, I'm in a coffee shop and whatever. And I was like, then they didn't reply, and I literally went crazy. I was like, that something's happened. But like not even like rational. It was completely irrational. There was no reason for me to be that distressed. Like it's absolutely it was absolutely fine, and they were, they were like, ha ha ha, yeah, I'm fine. I was like, don't do that to me. Yeah, I think that's to be honest, that probably is probably is the fear, which goes kind of hand in hand as to why I let go of people, yeah. To not feel like I'm losing them. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

And also like you maybe start thinking that's going to happen, even if it's not, and that way it stays less painful if you're not as attached to them anyway.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

I think so. Yeah. I think it's also like having the control of deciding to like not lose someone. But when the when the choice is taken out of your hands, that's really scary. Yeah. I think it's probably that as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

When do you feel emotionally safest?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

I would probably say with my dog, Gary. Love him so much. But he likes Gary is my dog.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Dogs with human names are the funniest things.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

He's actually funny story. Sorry, it won't be long, but on my necklace it says Gary, like there. And I left it at rehearsals um like a few months ago, and I got a message from my company manager saying, Um hi, just checking. There's a necklace with a guy's name on it. Just checking if this is yours. I was like, Yeah, that's my dog. Like, yeah, that is actually. Um, yeah, so I think probably when I'm with him, I think anyone that has a pet knows the feeling of like they just like love you. I can't even explain it. Like, he literally follows me everywhere and he just loves me so much. I feel like when I'm with him and he's not annoying me and pulling like the oven mitts off the oven where I'm like, Gary, stop. That feeling of like just being with him in bed, like got the TV on, I'm just lying in bed with him. That's probably that's probably when I feel, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

The most comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Most comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

I think we don't deserve animals. I think they are just the the support that they give us without expecting anything back in return. They don't care if you're rich, they don't care if you're pretty or ugly, they don't care what you are, they just care that you love them back.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Oh my gosh, it actually breaks my heart. They literally do, they are they are just the like if anyone is ever thinking of getting like a dog or a cat, I know I I've had a cat as well, and cats are a bit different, but like I urge it, yes, they are a lot of work, and yes, they take up a lot of your time, and but they are like so worth it, just so worth it. Yeah, they're the best. Oh Gary.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

What are you afraid will never happen for you?

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Do you know what I actually think? I'm just not someone that ever thinks of stuff like that. I think that's why that question's really hard. Because I I was actually saying this earlier, like I don't I don't say I don't dream. I obviously do dream of things, but I never know what I want until it comes. Does that make sense? Yes, like I never go, I really want this, like even job or this thing, or until it happens and then I know that I want it. Does that make sense? Yeah, so I think that feels impossible because there are a million one things I'm sure I want to do, but I don't know them yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

That's probably a beautiful way to be though, because it means you're never like, oh, this isn't this doesn't satisfy me yet, because I want to get this, I want to get this. It's like you tend to be very in the moment of like, I got this, this isn't made, like it's yeah, a lot more present and grateful and more. From how much time I've spent on this, you'd think it'd be far better than it is.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

I promise you, this is one of the worst things I've ever done. Just so that just so that everyone is aware, this is terrible.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Are you ready to show your masterface?

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Okay. Do you want to go for the camera first?

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Um yeah, so it is my cinema.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Um that's really good.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

It's hey, it's okay. Now, my concern is if you look at all of these little people, what it starts to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

They look like anchors.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Anchors! Yeah. Well, I'm glad that's what you said.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

I don't think they look like penises at all.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

That is, I like only once I'd done like ten of them went, hmm, this stuff looked a little bit wrong.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

They're all simultaneously cheering.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Hey, we also don't know what's on the TV screen, so it could be something like 50 shades. And in that case, this photo does make sense. Um apart from that, I don't know what else to say. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

That's really good. I think you've done a yeah, really good job there. I love this just got like cinema inside, isn't it? I don't believe it's just in case you don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

In my head, this was neon and flashing, but you just can't see it.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, yeah, it's like in a 60s or like 80s coming.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

You clearly can't get in, only get out because there isn't any.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

We both went with the exit strategy.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Yeah, because it sorry, I keep knocking that. It feels right, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Like that's always like the the red exit neon signs. It's like that's the thing I notice most in the cinema.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Oh, I've done it wrong. No, I haven't. Yeah, there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah, I I mean all the theatre centres look different. It's the steps. I couldn't really get the steps because they all it's on an incline, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Yeah, it's not really.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I went I tried to make it fancier and go for the Pixar.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Wow! That is so much right.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

I think yours is really good. No, I just no, no, no. I didn't know how to draw seats, but it kind of went for the top of the store.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

I love Pixar too.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

I tried to get it took me ages to get the light in the house.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Is there one in here? You would have thought that it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Um yeah, that would have been good.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah, there's usually I I don't know, put the exercise at the house.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

And then they come, you always come in here.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah, it's always down here, isn't it? When you come up, so I was like, Oh my gosh. Hey, I think these are pretty good. I think you've done very good there, yeah. Thanks. I like to do a theme or like a discussion topic in the episode. And I'm trying to figure out what on earth I meant because I've written down art and enjoyment versus business, and I think where I was trying to go with that was and I wanted specifically to get your take on it because now you've started a business, you're starting to understand kind of that side of it as well as just the performing side. Um, and I think in a lot of cases within the industry now, it's more money, money, money. Do you know what I mean? It's yeah, it's starting to sacrifice the um the actual art that you're producing for um I don't want to name any productions names or anything, just to get people in the door and to get money in the door. And then you have more up-and-coming artists trying to make something that's actually like got a lot of heart and got a lot a lovely message, yeah, because it's less about the money and it's more about what they're trying to um yeah, to trying to present, trying to teach the audience, whatever it is. And I think that can be the same with like small businesses as well. Um and I wanted to get your opinion on first of all, like part one, do you think that it's become oversaturated in the industry that way? And two, how are you managing to like keep the munt money versus um I'm trying to find the word for it, but the beauty of what you're trying to give your clients as opposed to you know trying to keep it from just being money, money, money, which is literally the opposite of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Yeah, you know what, it 100% makes sense. I think for the first part, like the s oversaturation, the money side of things in theatre, like so. I used to work um at front of house um for um a show called Le Clique, which is um like a circus sort of show. Um, and we were very much involved in like it's all very fringe theatre, so we would constantly have new fringe pieces coming in and stuff like that, which was so exciting. And I think we've lost a lot of fringe theatre because it's now if it's not commercial, it won't, it won't see the light of day. You you already to take a show to fringe have to have so much money. Um, and we were talking about it actually recently when sort of looking at all the new fringe shows that are coming out and stuff, all the ones that have got the most like publicity and feel the strongest are the ones with money behind it already. Um, and it's such a shame because I think a lot of people, I know some of the most incredible creative minds who have no money, and you go actually, you're losing someone that could be sond time level of like talent, but they will you will never hear it. Um I think that's why I love social media at the minute. I do think social media has become a platform where if you do not have the money to take it straight away, you are able to boost it online and try and get that outreach and things like that, um, which I absolutely love and I think is just fantastic that that is there. Because I do think, yeah, it's the it's it's all very different now, I would say, compared to like when you're thinking of theatre back then. Yeah, I would agree. Um and then what was the second thing?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

It was in regards to your business, my business.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

You know what? It that is a really good point. And another thing that I I feel very fortunate that I'm in a position where I feel like I can do that. Um, I think where it becomes difficult is as freelance creatives as performers, if people don't charge, they don't make money. That's the problem. London living wage is like £14 something. So if you're working at like a bar on top of it, you're you're barely making, maybe just making your rent, like bills and housing in London and stuff. I think it's a really fine line between how you make money but how you offer affordability to people. I've had to really like work out what that line is. Um, because again, I have to like live and and do I don't know, I just have to live and pay my rent and do everything, but I also yeah, counter that with giving the opportunity and trying to it's really hard, it is really hard to navigate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, I think it's uh not spoken about a huge amount, to be honest. Um, but there definitely is an underlying thought process, and every performer's header's like, oh, I can't go off. I need to, I need to I need to push through, I need to push through at the expense of our own mental health, physical health, whatever it is. But be I wanted to try and figure out where where's that come from? Is it was it does it does it start in college? Is it more of an industry thing? Is it seeing peers never go off? So then you start um to try and or like I'm only as good a performer as how little sick days I take off.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

And where does it come in that you start to realise oh, being a professional performer is actually knowing knowing when to say no?

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

And learning when to take time for myself.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah, really good point. I think it's it I think it also has a long way to go in our in our like actual industry, in our bubble. The amount of times I hear people go, yeah, but they go off all the time. And I'm like I I get it, like I think that's become lingo that everyone sort of uses, and it kind of disregards people's talent.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Where I think the mentality, yeah, around it kind of does need to shift. It is it we are in a different generation. Also, shows are harder. Like, sorry, that might be a bit of like maybe not all, but I would say vocally, particularly, you look at like mean girls, right? They are belting top F's, top G's. And if we took Suntime or we took any of those kind of musicals, chitty chitty bang bang, um, my fair lady, we were sitting a in a legit setup, which is a completely different place, and you aren't belting at the top of your lungs. Performers are going to get more fatigued because I think the material is different. I think even teaching has helped me where I've been basically like getting a syllabus of songs from like the 60s to now to kind of have them ready. You look at the different like it's really crazy when you think songs, songs that were considered hard back then were blank and now they're that. You it's like night and do it.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Do you think that comes from I like to compare it to you know, like Marvel films? Yes. Back in the day when like Iron Man first came out. There's nothing particularly crazy about that film, but everyone loved it because we didn't have that many superhero films at the time. But now that we're so oversaturated with them, now everyone's expecting, oh, I need this many superheroes and I need this many cameos, I need this much action. Yeah. It's become like, oh, the the standards of um the standards have risen because we get so used to it, we need more to be impressed. Yeah. Do you think that's the same with theatre audiences? I am. And that's why they've made their songs harder.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

That's such a good point. I completely agree. Because I think people then leave shows but they don't have that massive thing, go, yeah, but there's no like big song.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

You go, but there doesn't actually need to be a big song. You you look at those old. Yeah, they don't, they don't need them like you don't watch into the woods and pick out one song as the song. You go actually as a collective, yeah. It's a fantastic piece of theatre. It's like just I mean, it's one time, it's amazing compared to other shows where it's then become, and probably there are, you know, Wicked felt like the craziest show ever at the time because there wasn't music like it really did. I feel like Wicked felt like Define Gravity was like the song. Like it's like, wow. Now every song is Defiant Gravity or higher or harder or more. You know, it's it's just changed so much, and I do think that's also played into the why performers are finding it harder to sustain because it the shows are getting, I would say, this might be biased. Obviously, not all, but I would say getting hard.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

I think that's a good point. We're gonna do some quick fire questions, lighten it up a bit, make it a little bit easier, yeah. Less thinking involved.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Um I'm just gonna ask you some really easy questions.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

It's it's actually getting warm, but probably from all the questions I've been asking you like, there's a so many. Um, yeah, some nice quick ones.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Whatever comes to the top of your head first.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

What's your guilty pleasure?

SPEAKER_03 40:24

Um, um chocolate and melted chocolate and strawberries.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Lovely. Sunrise or sunset?

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Sunset.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Sweet snacks or salty?

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Sweet.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Comedy or drama?

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Comedy. Ah, comedy.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Big plans or no plans.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

No plans.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

What food do you never get bored of? Can't say chocolate strawberries.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Okay, but real. Um, I would say lasagna. Good.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

What um what's something you'll always say yes to?

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Something always tattoo.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm never gonna say no. Never. Biggest red flag and a partner.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Biggest red flag. Changing plans all the time.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Okay. Fair. If you could be impulsive, carry on to the show. If you could be in any country right now, where would you be?

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Um the Maldives. Is that a country? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Uh favourite food cuisine?

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Favourite food cuisine, Chinese.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Favourite day of the week?

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah. Except if it's a double show.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Oh, if it's double, then not Saturday. Sunday. If I'm in a show Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Early bird or night owl?

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Night owl.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Big night out or quiet night in?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Quiet night in.

unknown 41:43

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Okay, just before we go, do you have an embarrassing story or like worst audition? Anything in that vein?

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

That you want to share?

SPEAKER_03 41:51

I definitely do.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Oh my god, okay. When I auditioned for college for Realdale, I was 16. Now I just need to preface. I'd not done dance classes. Like, that's not like no. Um, and they were like, okay, everyone, we're gonna get go to the corner. Firstly, I headed for the bottom left. Yeah, which obviously makes no sense because you obviously go from there. I'm like, yeah, let's go to the corner. Me stood over there, noticed everyone's.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Bottom left if the panel at the front seemed to be going away from the door.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

That's the panel there, I went over there.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I did not face them.

unknown 42:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Yeah, because I was like, yeah, corner, no worries. Uh-huh. Here. Then couldn't do the corner work. So the teacher did it with me. It makes me feel like this. Is it? So then they went. Everyone's watching. Literally, everyone's watching me, and they were all like, kick, all of this, and I'm like this.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Literally holding your hand to get into the thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

I like I was barefoot as well because like I didn't know what I was supposed to do, and like everyone else was in like, I don't know, trainers or like actual things, and I was literally awful. And then I sang, she used to be mine. Like it honestly was just like, I don't know how I got in. Thank you for giving me a chance.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

You did get in, so obviously it must have potential.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

That, yeah, that that is my worst. That it haunts me.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

I mean, clearly, I mean it's it haunts me.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I hate dance rounds now. It haunts me.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

I don't honestly don't know how I got into college like that. I was very similar. Like I had I think I'd taken like three months of ballet before going, and that was pay more than me. And yeah, I don't know what they saw, but clearly there's some potential potential. That's why I always say they didn't see talent, but they saw potential for talent maybe to happen at some point. Yeah. Also, thank you so much for coming in today. It's been really lovely learning more about you and hearing your stories and everything that you shared.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

And guys, feel free to check everything out on YouTube, Instagram, go follow, subscribe, all that kind of stuff. And we'll see you in the next one.