Episode 12 - Rory Phelan

Rory shares with me his backstory, mens mental health within the industry, and his new rapidly growing business providing performers consistency physically and mentally in an ever changing industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

What is up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Implaying Clothes. I think it's episode 12 today, if I'm correct. Uh it's another sunny day in Elephant and Castle. We've got some more heat. We had the heat wave like a couple of weeks ago. Don't know about everybody else, but I live at the top of a building and the heat was rising. It was horrible. I was dying, but it was nice to have the sun. Um today we've got another guest. Um and a special one as well, because he's got something really exciting to talk about. Uh he's made his name in the industry with national tours, international tours, and West End, performing in shows such as Heathers, Club Chopacana, Grease, Mamma Mia, and Saturday Night Fever. But the thing I'm most excited to hear about is his thriving new fitness and well-being company, Stage Strong, which, if you're in the industry, you've probably heard of it already, of which he is the owner and founder. So welcome to the pod, Rory Feeling. How are we doing today, man?

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Yeah, I'm good, mate. I'm good, excited to be on.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, nice. We've had a little bit of uh uh behind the scenes like craziness already, but uh we've got we've got the episode started and I'm uh excited to have you on. Um how are you doing? Yeah, how's how's I'm going at the moment?

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Good, yeah. I can't complain. I'm enjoying the brief sunny weather we're having in the UK, although this week it wasn't that nice, but we've yeah, been trying to make the most of it, trying to yeah, ramping up summer really.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, tell us a little bit about where you kind of grew up. That's kind of how I'd start um the episode, like where you grew up, where you you know became you, how you got into the industry, like what you've done so far, like.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

So I I grew up southeast London in Bexley Heath. Okay. Um, my family are from there still now. Um, and yeah, just kind of very never had any interest in theatre or performing at all. Was just not a thing on my radar. Okay. We'd go and see theatre as a family, but it was never like a oh, I'd want to do that. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then just naturally kind of fell into sports, and my dream really was to go and be a sports physiotherapist. That's like what I wanted to do. Um, and then just as I was in school, it was one of those things I wasn't massively academic, yeah. Um, and so then I was like, okay, right, it's clearly not happening. And a teacher was like, right, the only subject you can take is drama. And at this point, I was like 17, I think. It was kind of AS level time, yes. Um, and I was like, okay, fine. And so my friend Jacqueline, she was at a local performance school and she was like, Oh, you should come do this. And then I basically auditioned, I wasn't going to uni or anything like that, and then got a scholarship, and that was it. But I'd never like act, sung, or danced ever before, and then just kind of fell into it. Wow, and luckily liked it. I mean, first year of college, I was like, I hate this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I gradually like liked it, and uh, yeah, then that's just how it's kind of rolled, really.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Man, what was that kind of turning point between like maybe first and second year where you were like, oh no, this isn't a mistake, this is something I actually yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

I think at first it's it's quite an overwhelming world to come into if you've never been a part of it before. Yeah. Um, and also when you're just doing something which you've never done, naturally you're just not very good at it. Yeah. Um, not that I'm great at it now, but it was just one of those things you know you might have your Z V would say otherwise. I was like, okay, right, oh, this is what it's like, and just kind of get into terms that learning how to do like ballet and stuff was just painful for everybody involved. Oh yeah. So it was it was stuff like that, but I think it was I started to love it and mainly enjoy the people that I was getting to do it with as well. Yeah. Um, because yeah, it's such a it's an amazing industry in so many terms, in terms of like the passion behind it and the love for it. Yeah, and I think I just kind of got caught up in that, and that was just what made me kind of be like, okay, yeah, no, this is the right thing to do, and then just stuck it out. So, where did you go to college? I went to DB, possibly the smallest college. I think I've heard of it. Not many people have. When I went there, it was built above an Iceland. Really? Above an Iceland in Bromley, yeah. Um, there was 11 people in my year. Wow, okay. I think there was just under 40 in the whole college, which was nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So it was You get you get that one-on-one kind of personal training that you don't think you've ever gone anywhere else. I went somewhere similar.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Um but I don't again, I didn't audition anywhere else. It was kind of just uh what was nice, it was very kind of like they literally took you hand in hand through the whole process. Um, and that was it. They sorted me out my first agent, my first accountant, like my first job, everything really was was them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

To be fair, honestly, it sounds like it's kind of mirrored my kind of SLP, right? I was SLP, which is a small, very small college. It was the only place I auditioned. I didn't know anything about musical theatre. My first show I ever saw was once I was already in college. My first year, I didn't like it, and I failed all my exams. Like it's literally almost and it was only after my my my second and third year that I then started to get good enough to be able to, you know, perform. Um, I came from like a small, small town, didn't really know anything about you know theatre, so kind of went hand in hand as well, and then got my first agent. So I do really see where you're coming from, but I'm always glad that I didn't go to a really big college that have like hundreds of people because you just don't get that same internet training.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

I also, you know, when I chat to friends that are in this kind of world and everything, one of the things I'm most grateful for is starting so late. Obviously, it has its like downsides in terms of like you're nowhere near at the same level as someone that's been doing it since they're three years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think because of that, everything's so new and exciting. Whereas I think if I'd potentially been doing it since I was a kid, potentially that novelty may not have been there or might have been a different experience for me. But every day at college for me, I was like, oh wow, this is something I've never even done before. What's this? Um, so yeah, so no, that was kind of how it all kind of came about.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I remember at when I first got into college, they were like, Oh yeah, you're gonna have to do ballet. And I'd never done ballet in my life. So about three months before I went to college, like they were I started doing ballet classes, and it was awful, it was horrendous because I'd literally these people have been doing it since we were like three years old, and I'd just never done it before. Um, so I fully understand the feeling of going to college, not knowing uh feeling so behind everybody else there, and just like so it does help when you have that kind of hand in hand kind of process.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

You know, if you've never done it before, it's it's really scary and quite intimidating. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I mean that's how I told my friends that I was going to perform an article. I got them all to like my group of mates got around my house and I put on a unitard and came downstairs and was like, I'm going to perform an article. And they're like, Really? I was like, Yeah, no, I'm as surprised as you are. So um that's kind of how it happened, but I I'll never forget my first ever dance class at DB. Blessed the teacher, I think her name was Rosie, was teaching me how to like do the entrance like dance because you had to do like dancing and act to kind of get in. Yes, yeah, yeah. And um she taught me this dance, I can't even remember it. And the we were about 10 seconds into the performance, and the people that ran the school were like, just stop. It's okay. Because apparently, like my feet were like bleeding on the floor because I wasn't even wearing shoes, but I was like trying to obviously try so hard, like rolling around the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were just like, it's alright, it's okay. Let's move on to the song. It just felt and they still still got in there.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

If they were really desperate or something else happened, I mean I think that's one of the times it really helps to be a guy in the exact in an industry that's uh you know widely dominated by girls. So um, and then when you graduated, was Mamma Mia first?

SPEAKER_03 7:20

No, my first job was Saturnai Fever. I got that when I was in third year, and it's really cool because we were doing Saturn Fever as our showcase, and I was playing Tony, and then I got cast as first cover Tony. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Um was that with Morgan Jackson? Was that the UK?

SPEAKER_03 7:32

No, so I did it. God, this is me showing my age. I did 2015 UK tour. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So wow, that's old. Um, but yeah, look great. So that was uh yes, I did that literally come straight out of college, and again the college set everything up, so yeah, well, I was very lucky to have like people like alongside, and then yeah, just went straight into one of the most dancy show I've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, but that's the best time to go into it because like after three years of training, you're the the physically the fittest you're ever gonna be because you're doing yeah hours and hours like five days a week of physical training. So going into the most dancy show is like the best time to do it, yeah, exactly. So it was um, yeah, no, it was all kind of a whirlwind, but it was yeah, it couldn't have happened a better way for me personally. Awesome, man. Well, tell me about Stage Strong because this is like a big new advice. I don't know how long you've really been doing it for, but it always pops up on my Instagram, and people are raving about it. I know you've got um um Duncan. Yeah, Duncan, he raves about it whenever I talk to him. So I yeah, tell him tell me all about it. I thought it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

I mean, I've been kind of training, well, mainly performance because that's the only kind of world I'm in since I graduated. So I was actually a a trainer before I left college, yeah. Um, and then I've always been that kind of person that's been in cast, like helping people out, doing whatever. Um, and then it was about two and a half years ago, I was like, all right, keep putting it off. And I was like, I I know I want to do it, but I keep putting it off. And then I basically injured my shoulder again and was going through my second surgery on it. And I remember sitting there being like, oh, do you know what? If not now, like it's never. And so I was like, tomorrow, start stage strong. Didn't have anything, yeah, right. And I was like, I've just got to pull the plug, and I was in the hospital bed, probably still on a little bit of morphine. Yeah, I was like, Do you know what? It's live. Didn't even know what it was gonna become, and then it just kind of snowballed. So yeah, it's now been this year will mark two years since it kind of initially started. Okay. Um, we're in just over uh we're in nine countries now. Wow, um, which is great, yeah. In nine countries, mainly across kind of Broadway and and London. Yeah. Um uh we've currently got like over 125 people that we're working with on a daily basis. Wow. Um, you know, it's and it's amazing because it's built from my big belief in it is I I wanted to build a space for creatives to like just feel confident in themselves outside of the stage because our worth is so often tied to whether we're in a show or not. And I'm a big believer that if you feel confident within yourself, it just translates into your performance. And so for me, it was trying to find that. So we're lucky to have you know rehab specialists on our team, a therapist on our team. Like, that's for me, it's the fitness side, is yes, great, but fitness for me is a way of feeling good about yourself. So we're not that brand that is getting you all oiled up for a photo shoot. That's not kind of the way we work, it's more about how do we get you feeling your best and just like feeling really proud of the work you're putting in outside of the just being on stage and also getting ready for theatre because theatre is intense, yeah, right? As we both know from shows we've been in. So it's um, yeah, for me, it's having that kind of holistic approach to everything.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

So if there was somebody watching, say that was interested in you know looking into it, yeah. How would you describe what it is to them? Is it like a preparation like fitness program for us?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

How we kind of like because people were always like, so what is it? And it's ultimately it's a health and wellness program helping you to achieve your goals both physically and mentally. And what I mean by that is we look to build structure and sustainability in an industry that doesn't have that. So we look at your overall routine, start to build in habits that you're looking to build in, whether that is working towards a specific fitness goal or even just anything you're kind of looking at. And then myself and the team of coaches we've got kind of all kind of get in on board and like, right, okay, this is what we can start to look at. And our amazing therapist, Frankie, kind of gets involved and starts to look at the mindset side of stuff. Um, and it's really about how can we find something that works for you because otherwise, we always found with shows when you're in a show, it's great, you know what you're doing, you know you've got to be, you can build this lovely routine. The moment that show ends, it's like someone's just hit the reset button on your life and you're like, oh shit, what what do I do? Like, where do I go from here? And so for us, it's about being able to be at a place where you're always feeling good within yourself, no matter whether there's a show, whether there's a casting or anything like that. Um, because that helps you to show up and it doesn't make you feel like you've got to fake this confidence the whole time. Um, because if I hear again one more person say fake it till you make it, it'll make me shoot myself.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah. So where can where can people find it? Is it on your Instagram?

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Yeah, on Instagram, um, you know, both on my personal and on uh the stay strong page, and just yeah, for us it's if we're very much of the the relation. If if we can help, we'll help. If we're not the right brand for you, that we're not the right brand. It's for us, it's all about a collaboration effort, really.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

That's amazing, man. Well, thanks for talking about. I appreciate it. We're actually gonna move on to draw distract, which okay. You've had a little bit of uh you know a warning about that if we just looked online, see what it is. But basically, we're gonna test our drawing skills. Okay, underneath your chair, you've got uh whiteboard, pen, and rubber. Okay, you're gonna pick a scenario out of that uh cup there on the table. Right. And whatever the hell's on it, we're gonna draw whilst you answer some really difficult questions.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

I am uh I am a uh horrendous drawer.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Oh, don't worry, I don't think anybody that's ever been in that chair has ever said that they're a good drawer either. We stick mentally. An old Western town. Like cowboys. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, like a saloon bar kind of thing. Yeah, all right. Okay, that's fair. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

I'll try my very best.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

See, this is always I say this every time, but this is always much harder for you because you've got to think about the responses. I just ask a question and I can doodle. You just start to okay, yeah, yeah. It's so much and last was it last week, the few weeks ago, on I did an episode just basically the reversed. So I was answering the questions as my own podcast on me. Yeah, um, and I had to answer the questions whilst drawing. I was like, oh, this is so much harder. I kinda I can I can relate to what you're going through now. So um, but also appreciate not having to do it. So all right, okay. First question, and these are a little bit more deeper because I I value obviously getting to know the person behind performer. Um, so yeah, whatever you're willing to share, absolutely. What is the most difficult conversation you've ever had?

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Ooh, most difficult conversation. Um I would honestly say, and this is gonna sound really cringy saying it, it was having a conversation with myself about why I was performing. Um I think I got to a place where it was actually when I was in Heather's, we'd just finished doing the pro shot, and I remember coming off stage and I was like, I don't know if this makes me happy anymore. And that was a really hard thing because I think as a performer it's like your identity, isn't it, being in the show? Yeah, um, and so I then was like, okay, why if if you if you're not doing it because you love it, why are you doing it? Yeah, um, and then I handed in my notice that day at the show. Wow, yeah, and um left, was like, okay, gonna start a new chapter, became an agent, was working at an agency. Um that's so different, yeah. And then I was like, right, this is what I do now. And then when I was there, I started to think, okay, right, was it performing? Was it something else? And then lo and behold, a year and a half later, I went back to performing because I was like, right, now I'm doing it because I love it again, not because I'm doing it to impress someone or something, you know. But I'd say that's probably it. It sounds cringy being like myself, but yeah, I'd probably say No, I think that's a very valid point.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

I like that answer. Um, what is something you wish your parents had understood about you?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Oh I actually don't know because I without kind of picking them up too much, my mum and dad are are are legends. So yeah, they've been really good that they've always, no matter what's been going on, have have backed me. Yeah. Like whenever I've been like, I think I'll do this, they're always like, Alright, that's what you're gonna do, go for it. And then they've always just kind of backed me to do it. So yeah, I'd say that there's not much they because even when I wanted to perform, which came out of nowhere, they were like, Alright, fine, yeah, do it. So yeah, I don't say there's anything I wish they could have supported me more on or or or kind of understood. Yeah, I kind of I reckon I've been pretty fortunate in in that scenario, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

That's nice one. It's uh I understand having parents that are really supportive, and even if it goes wrong, it's having knowing that they're gonna be there and be like, hey, that's it, you know, and I I'm probably a bit too open with them, as in they know everything.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Like I'm always just like, Mum, dad, this was going on. Yeah. Um, and it's just kind of always been the case, especially as I've got older.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

When they're your biggest cheerleaders, though, it's just yeah, yeah, it's so ha it's so worth it, you know, knowing that they're there to fall back on, you know. What is something you understand about your parents now that you didn't when you were younger?

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Probably how much they've put me and my sister first. Um I think you always think like, okay, oh you know, mum and dad are always there or whatever. Yeah. But I think so as you get older and you start to realise the level of stuff, you start to go, oh wow. God, that must have been really difficult. Or like you always made sure that we would never know anything that was kind of going on. Yeah. Um you know, they've always just whenever I've needed them at the drop of a hat I've kind of turned up. And I think that it in the moment sometimes you overlook that. And it's very easy to be like, oh, okay, right. But yeah, they um yeah, how much they go above and beyond without needing the plaudits of it, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, they've never been like, oh you know, what like do you thank us or anything like that? You know, they've always just kind of been there.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

That's beautiful. When do you feel most alone? Most alone.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

I'm very bad with my own company. Very bad, okay. Yeah. And it's something I've only realized as I get older. I always have to be busy.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Always. Um, and so I'm trying to slow down a bit more because I'd always feel like okay, if things were slow, I'd be like, right, I've just got to go and do a million or one things to be busy. So um yeah, I'd say trying to sit with that and trying to kind of build up from that. Yeah. Um I'm still not great at it, but I'm like kind of getting with that over time. Um, but it's usually just because I've always grown up, but there'll always be a friend around or something going on. So I'd I'd say probably that is just yeah, learn to develop being in my own company.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Why do you think that that is? Where do you think that stems from? Wanting to just I don't know. I mean keeping busy, I think, especially in this industry, is a very yeah, it's a very it's a thing that we all do without realizing probably why we do it. But we're very especially a lot of people on the on the spectrum in this industry, and we all like to keep busy. We like to especially in an industry where it kind of evaluates the busyness to worth and that kind of thing. Um but you really do you know feel that uncomfortability and sometimes it's important to sit in that uncomfortability when you feel kind of on your own, you you're able to sit in that loneliness. Oh, I'm not doing anything right now. Why does that make me feel you know, why is that quite difficult to face? Yeah. Um, and whether it's you know, because you tie it to your worth, because you tie it to something else, maybe. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Um no, I don't I I wouldn't I think it's because growing up, like I was very lucky to always like have mates around or always have something going on. And I never really had to spend much time just just me. Yeah. Um, so I guess that's probably where where that's kind of come from. Um and so yeah, I just I guess it's something I've never experienced. It's only as I've got older I've always been like, okay, well, I've always done this with like friends there or with this going on, always been kind of having stuff on in the background.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

And it mainly when it kind of mainly hit me, so I was on tour in America, and at one point COVID shut us down, and I was in New York for four weeks or something. I had an apartment in New York, yeah, and it was amazing. But uh it I've only ever been to New York for like five days max. And when I was there, I remember um after the first five days of just exploring by myself, I was like, this is amazing. And then the week after, I was like, God, this is such a busy city, but quite lonely. And I'd say that that was probably one of the best experiences I've had because it forced me to just be there, just be you know, when you don't know anyone or all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was kind of a steep learning curve, I'd say, when I was there for definite.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

But it's good to always. I'm a big advocate for sitting in that and kind of addressing rather than trying to run away from that's it, that's the hardest uncomfortable feelings, even though they're uncomfortable. Yeah. What fear has had the biggest impact on your decisions?

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Fear. Fear of failure, I'd probably say. It's probably quite a maybe quite a common one. Um and I'd say that that was originally why I had to ask myself whether you know performing was the right avenue for me. Yeah. Because I was always just thinking like if I'm not in a show, I'm not successful. Yeah. If I'm not this, I'm not successful. Um and so I'd say that that's there, and I it's definitely something which I feel like proud to say that I I feel like I'm slowly kind of that's not the identity I have anymore. Yeah. But um, yeah, I'd definitely say that because you'd always feel like you're only as valid as the last credit, right? Yeah, exactly. Um, and again, that's something which I really try and pride myself on of. Separating from now and not being in that kind of place. And it's hard. Yeah, it is. Because that's kind of what we're conditioned to, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

What do you think people love about you that you struggle to see in yourself? Oh, that's really hard.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

I'd probably say confidence, really. Because I always I'd always say that I'm kind of like confident, but I'd always be like, I wish I'd be more confident in that one, more. Yeah. Whatever. But a lot of my friends aren't uh like my main kind of friendship group aren't in the industry. And to them, I'm like crazy confident. Crazy confident. But I'd say probably confidence and and belief. Um, because they're always like, Oh, if you believed in yourself as much as you believed in others, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, so I'd probably say that, but yeah, again, the things you you know you never think of until like you start drawing an old Western town, then that's when Yeah, you actually, and then it's hard to like focus on which one's what you what's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

And so, well, this is it is challenging, this one for sure. Um what is a secret struggle you've dealt with that most people don't know about you or know but don't know about?

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Um secret struggle.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Well, maybe not secret, but maybe just like less less known or something that you don't talk about as much.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

I'd probably say like the fear of being enough within certain scenarios. Yeah, I'd always try and push things to the absolute max. Like if I was gonna do anything, it's g it had to be perfect. Yeah, like a kind of perfect perfectionist thing, which I think a lot of performers feel. Um and so I've been trying to live by this motto of being like be very content with a seven out of ten effort. I know that sounds really dramatic. Because for me, if it wasn't perfect, there was no point in doing it. Yeah, and so you know, I got into this place being like, right, a seven out of ten is still an absolute win. Yeah, so yeah, but equally trying to find what a seven out of ten feels difficult at times as well. But I'd say, yeah, trying to escape that idea of having to be perfect in scenarios.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Sometimes you don't have I'm it's kind of slightly different, but you know when people say, Oh, you've got to always give a hundred percent in shows. But depending on what you've got to give, 100% can look different. If you only have 70% in the tank, if you give 70%, that's 100% of what you have.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Do you know what I mean? But it's equally like the thing which used to always be say when I was at college and graduating is full out. Oh you've got to be full out, you've got to break your necks when you do that movement or whatever. And I get the concept behind it, right? Give it your everything, yeah. Um, but it can then also, I've found, stop us as performers taking action on other things because we're like, well, there's no point unless I can be perfect with it. Yeah. Um, you know, unless I can be full out with feeling, there's no point.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

It's the same thing with like starting new things as well. Because often people will say, Oh, what if there's no point starting a new thing unless I can get it? Unless it's perfect first time. Even kind of with this, I was like, Oh, I still want like a really good studio to make it look like I've been doing it for ages, even if if it's the first time I'm doing it, which I fortunately managed to secure, but like I don't know whether I'd have done it if I didn't have like the studio to like make me feel like it was a proper thing already. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's it's difficult. Sometimes you just gotta start it and then figure it out on the way.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Yeah, and you know, I always um it's been something I've been speaking to a lot lately of like this idea of instead of trying to do everything perfectly, just start like trying to master the messiness. Yeah. Like being able to live in the messiness and be like, okay, well this is what it looks like, and you know, how can we make the most of that situation rather than just going it's not perfect, so it's over.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah. What is something you've spent years trying to prove?

SPEAKER_03 25:42

That I guess I can follow through with someone. Yeah. Um yeah, but I'd always have these like big ideas and be like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do that, and then I'd always like give in on it or get close, but never and I think it it came back to that feeling of like had to be perfect. Yeah. Um so I'd say, yeah, trying to prove myself wrong that I could follow it through to the to the end.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

That's uh I can really relate to that. I was saying on my my episode I did on myself recently that it's it's so uh easy to not follow through if somebody else isn't doing it with you, or you don't have like something forcing you to do it. Um and a lot of the times of my life I've not done that until I've decided to go against the flow, and that's actually where this podcast started. Whereas I I could have very somebody else decided not to do it with me, so I went, Oh, I could just not do it myself. And I'm like, you know what, just follow through. Just just just do it, even if you don't know what it's gonna be, you don't know what it's gonna be about, just do it and then figure it out along the way. And I think it's it it is so easy to just make an excuse, especially if somebody's not holding you to it, to just not do something, yeah. Um, and that's a habit that takes a lot to break out of. Um, so I definitely yeah, I feel you're on that one. It's easy it's very easy to give up. Yeah, oh, it's so easy to give up. Safe, it's comfortable, yeah. You know, yeah, it's in it's in your comfort zone. All right, how are we doing with the drawing? I don't even know where I've gone with this. It's possessed. There was a hard one, I really had to put a lot of effort into thinking about this one. I was like, well, I don't know quite where I'm at, but we've got something.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Do you want to first meet yeah, yeah, I go first. Okay. I think mine needs to explain it because I don't know if it makes sense. Please do the show the camera and explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There is my town. Okay, okay. So I started off with that's like the saloon. You hold it up a little bit like me. Saloon, but again, it sounds really bad. I didn't I wasn't sure how to spell saloon. I was like a salon with an extra O. Yeah, I nearly put two L's. I was like, isn't it saloon?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I did the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

And then I started like building these other places and didn't realise what they were. Um and they're supposed to be doors, not loaves of bread.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Oh no, I thought there were I thought there were doors. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

And then a really bad like cow slash horse with the man with lasso, and then just a bunch of random people just inside the loaves of bread. And that's that's how you smashed it, I think. That's great. Yeah, got the lasseilers. Uh I mean it's similar kind of oh my god, come on, that's ridiculous. Yours is like 3D, and then there's mine with loaves of bread for doors.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

I don't know why this keeps it.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

You can't bring people on here if you can actually draw.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

I can't draw the stick, man. Like, this isn't real drawing.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

I've got a cow slash horse.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah, I've got a horse and cart, too. Yeah, but that's got like yeah, wow, you've got hills in the background. Well, that you know, kind of like sand dunes, and I didn't want to put any birds because it's in the desert, isn't it? You've got the guy shooting cans on the top. You've got I don't know, range against shooting range there, a saloon, you've got somebody dead, and you've got these the dust balls, what you get in the desert, kind of like bits of sand. Um just kind of I don't know, just kind of make up. I can't believe you've done that to me. Again, it's easier when I'm asking questions and weird colouring in on the top. But I did think I was like, there's never any like um tops of buildings in like in the desert or like saloons, so it's just like flat. So I was like, what happens on the top? I was like, well, I guess there's a good one just shooting.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Do you know what? Really good job. You've tried really hard there, and then I've seen that and gone awful.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

No, I was like, I even tried to put there's a rocking chair there with no one in it, because there's always some guy with like a hat just on a rocking chair. Steve even flipped through that. Do you know what I mean? All right, I just I wanted to move on to uh discussion theme of the episode. And because of um Stage Strong, I thought this was quite a good one. I want to go into men's mental health a little bit and just get your um your kind of take on that within this industry, especially with worth being tied to you know your your job and and and what work you have to show. Um it's so easy to to struggle uh with mental health in those times where you're not working, even when you are working and still not being valued as a person, just as a performer. Um how where do you think men men's mentors specifically men's mental health is at within the industry at this point? And how is Stage Strong working to help that at the moment?

SPEAKER_03 30:11

I think one of the good things at the moment is mental health has been spoken about more than ever before, which is great. But equally, I don't think that the overall mental health of the of where our industry is at the moment is is great at all. And I think that it's something that has to be spoken about more and more. Um because again, there's not many other lines of work where you can do everything you possibly can, and it comes down to a panel of five, six people which are being like yes or no. Um and the only thing you can do is start to turn inwards in that moment. Um and so for me, the biggest thing which we've been trying to pride ourselves on and our big ethos is at Stage Strong is trying to build that belief in people that they they are able to achieve anything they want, and it can't their worth can't be tied to a panel, which is easier said than done, right? Because no matter how long you've been doing this industry, no matter what people say, a no still cuts. Yeah. Even if you prepare for it, it still hurts. Even if you know that there's loads of reasons that it's not about you or your talent, like it's just and every time you get through that recall, you instantly know how you spent your first paycheck, yeah. You know which tour and venues you're going to, you know who's coming to that start. Exactly. And it's because it's the only industry where it's not linear, right? Yeah, no matter how many credits you've got, doesn't mean that the next step is always up. No. Um, and so for me, it's being able to find happiness and pride and success away from the stage. Because then you can go back to it for the real reason you do it, which is because you love it. Yeah, right. No one came into musical theatre being like, I'm gonna be a millionaire. Right. Of course not. Um so for me, it's about once you can find that belief and success in yourself, then it allows you to take that pressure off. Because otherwise, you're stepping into that audition room with so much on your shoulders before you've even done anything. Yeah, and people always say the auditions well in my scenario, and and I know plenty of other people as well, that their best auditions have been the ones where they didn't care about, or they didn't. You know, they always go, I didn't even know about that one. That was the best one that happened. I truly believe it's because the weight was off. The ones you desperately want, they're the ones that you're already fighting before you go in the door. Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think half the battle is before you've even opened the door to the audition room, anyway. Um, so for me, it's just continue to have those conversations, continue to be able to be quite open and share it and not feel that there's any judgment involved. Yeah, um be able to talk about the fact that it's it's not perfect. The industry does have flaws, and that's okay. And being able to be like, you know, you can still be in a show, and that doesn't make you ungrateful if uh you're not having the best time. Like that's all right. Yeah, a lot of people be like, How could you? You're doing the best thing ever, but it's as much as it's what we love to do, it's our passion, it is a job. Yeah, and I think we need to be able to have that conversation of being like it's okay to feel the way that you're feeling within it, because sometimes we have feel we have to mask it, and that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Yeah, that's the second part of that was actually rejection and resilience and how to stay positive and how to deal with that constant rejection when it doesn't often doesn't have anything to do with you and your um ability as a performer, and that's why a lot of people leave the industry within like the first few years of college just because they're maybe not getting jobs and it has nothing to do with their ability or their talent in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Um, and it's how to yeah, how how have you maybe put on a personal level or what advice would you give to people to be able to deal with that constant rejection and not give up?

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Yeah, what the the truth of it is is that that's the that's the hardest part, right? It's the the nose, the different things that happen, like you know, there's a mad statistic that only two percent of any performers are in work at and making a living from it at any time. Right? That's crazy. Ridiculous on paper. If you ever if you ever heard that, you'd be like, no way. So why why would you even do this in the street? Exactly. And that's like making a living, yeah. Um not even surviving, yeah. And so the the truth is with that, is you have to find things that still make you feel like you're progressing and successful outside of it. Something that part of your week you can be like, Oh, I've done this, I've done this. Whereas if it's just down to that audition, and we may have had it before where if you don't get it that entire week is written off. Yeah, that whole month is is down the drain. And it's about finding that success. And you know, funnily enough, uh I I went over to New York last year and spent some time with our clients on Broadway. And I was having coffee with one of them that just finished after doing, I think it was seven years straight on Broadway, right? And it's his first time kind of to a break. And I was like, How do you feel about it? And he was like, Yeah, I'm I'm really excited. And I was like, Why? And he was like, This is when the work begins. And I was like, What do you mean? He's like, Being in a job is the holiday, that's the cherry on top of the cake. The actual work is when you're out of work, that's when you've got to grind things you don't want to do, you've got to grind. And I was like, it's such a different mentality to what I'd ever looked at before. Yeah, um, and he was like, Because the show's that that's the easy bit once you're in it. He was like, That's the other bit where you've got to double down and find that belief in yourself, find something that makes you feel good and and turn up each day because that's what I think when as performers you're feeling your best, that's when you have the opportunity to show your talent the most. Yeah. When you feel like you're full of doubt or worry or anything like that, you're only gonna start to become more inward like thinking and not be able to put your best self out there. That's kind of the way that I believe in it.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Um because all we're trying to look at is just to be confident enough to just show everyone what we can do. Yeah, it's never a thing of talent, it's just how you can showcase it.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah. Oh, that's a great answer. I like that one. Um okay, let's move on to some quick fire questions. This is nice and easy. Okay. Off the top of the head, okay. I'm just gonna throw some quick questions at you and you're just gonna, you know. It's an A or B answer. So it's really fine. Alright. Tea or coffee. Coffee. Summer or winter? Winter. Dog or cat? Dog. Beach or mountains? Beach. Sweet or savory? Savory. Netflix or YouTube? Netflix. Early bird or night owl? Early bird. Book or movie? Movie. Introvert or extrovert? Or both. I should probably say extrovert. Okay. Uh football or rugby? Football. London or Paris? London. Apple or Android?

unknown 36:58

Apple?

SPEAKER_00 36:58

I thought you meant the fruit then. I was like, what's the Android? How do you eat an Android? Did you answer? Apple. Oh, sorry, yeah, that's right. Chocolate or vanilla? Chocolate. Fame or fortune? Fortune. Yeah. I mean, but both like I guess it's a difficult one. Both would be great. But also both are like not necessarily the biggest values, but like, yeah. If you're gonna take one, I mean definitely that's unfortunate. If I was famous but I had no money, I'd be like, what's the point?

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Yeah, and also I I think growing up I always loved the idea of being famous, but I I don't think it's anything that you want.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

The the older I've got, the more I've started to value my privacy. And the more I see people like in uh the news or just being like screw uh under scrutiny for various different things anytime they even go out. I'm like, I actually don't want that. I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be known that much that if I even just had a slight bad day and just was just like, no, I just don't want to sign anything, and then suddenly this is a horrible person in the press. And I'm like, what happened? Like I just I don't think I'm that person enough to be famous. I'm not nice enough as a person just to be famous. Um all right, before we go, do you have like a really embarrassing audition or like store or like you mean performance story, anything? I forgot a few. You've got a few, but you missed one.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Um what's the most embarrassing audition story? Okay, I won't name the show because that'll make me feel really bad. Um, but I was it was just after COVID, and I was in for like a dancy show. I am a mover at best, okay. Okay, I epitomized the word mover. Right. And I remember going in and there was tons of people that I knew in there. I was like, oh god, this is like really like proper dancy. Right. There was a lot, and it was like a 90-second routine.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Also, just as a cutaway, you did uh Saturday Night Fever as a mover. How are the how on earth is you?

SPEAKER_03 38:55

I can dance, but like as in, do not put me in a room full of like dancer dancers, right? Okay, because I'll stand out, right? Right, okay. I'll I'll be faking it, I'll be faking it till I make it the thing which I hate the most, right? Yeah, yeah. And um, I remember getting in there, they taught us the dance, and it was quick, it was like turns, leaps, everything that's going on. And I was like, I am I'm not in this room, and so they were like, Okay, come down, groups of four, and you know, the awkward thing where they do like one at the front, one at the back, one on the front. I was the person at the front, so I couldn't even copy anyone, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

And then they did make you do it twice and switch.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, but so the first time round, I was at the front, they start the music, everyone starts moving. I'm I'm a good six, seven counts behind everyone at this point, right? I'm just watching the miracle being like, let's just try and keep up.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

You have learned it, but you just wasn't happening. You know your brain's not there, yeah. It's not there.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

And we finished, and the first run of the audition went, Oh, did you have a bit of a brain fart? And I was like, Yeah. She was like, Do you want to do it again? I went, no, no, I'm good. I was like, I don't think I should do it the first time. I was like, Thank you so much, though. Just walked straight out of the audition. Did you actually left? I just couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

There's no point. The only thing worse than doing and having a brain fart the first time is then making you do it a second time and doing the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

You know when you like there's just not there's no point, and then the only other um little ones that I've had before as well. I remember I auditioned for Seven Brides for Seven Brothers or something, which again very, very dancy. Yeah, yeah. And it finished with a double tour, right? I struggle with a single tour, okay? And I remember it finished landing on your knees like with your arms up to the audience. Yeah, I finished facing the back, and again the panel like Rory just this way. I was like, oh god, yeah, awful. So I've had a quite a few moments of those.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

I mean, who hasn't? Like, if anybody's coming to said, I've never had an embarrassing story, I'm like, oh, I hate those kind of people. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 40:51

I have you ever heard the story of the person whose mum and me audition went bad? No, oh god, this is the greatest audition story ever. Let's hear it. He went in, did his song, and he said it didn't go like again. I won't name him because he don't know if we'll be happy, but he said it didn't go the way that he wanted to anyway, and they were like, Great, thank you. And it was the rooms at Umbrella Rooms where it's like up the top.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

And apparently the panel turned away to start talking. We're like, Oh, thanks very much. And he left and he thought he'd left through the door, he came in, but he didn't. And so he opened the door, went in, and closed the door. The next person came in, started singing. He was in the cleaning cupboard, right? Whilst they were singing their song, they then stopped singing and they were giving their feedback. And he like opened the door, was like, I'm so sorry. And they're like, What? And he's like, I I just didn't know what to do, so I just thought I'd commit to being in the cupboard and then left. How incredible is that that's a brilliant thing. Can you imagine being the person?

SPEAKER_00 41:43

No, it was like but then what would you you can't walk out in the middle of somebody else's door next to them for the whole day? Just gotta stay in the cupboard and be like, Oh, that'll be so why not open the cupboard and just cover. Oh, this is the cupboard. Yeah, yeah, why don't you open it and go in? That's oh that's a bold choice. But okay, mate, thank you so much for coming up. It's been so nice to like hear your stories, and I think we've actually got so I didn't realise how um we kind of really followed each other's kind of grown up in time in terms of career. I'm a personal trainer as well myself, so it kind of just really matched. Um you're apparently a very good artist compared to me as well. So well, yeah, I'm not talking about my stick men are on point. Leave a lot to be desired. Um but yeah, thanks so again for coming on and talking about Stage Strong. And if you're interested at home uh looking into it, I mean, like you said, it's on the website and Instagram. Uh I'll be tagging it in Reels on Instagram as well, so make sure you follow him in plainclothes. Um and yeah, subscribe to the YouTube or Spotify wherever you get your podcast. Um, but it's much more exciting if you watch on YouTube because you get to see Roy's amazing designs and artwork. And yeah, we'll catch you in the next one. Appreciate you watching, guys.