In Plain Clothes
An interview/discussion style podcast with industry professionals, focusing on the person behind the artist
In Plain Clothes
Episode 14 - Chris O'Mara
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Chris shares his battles with injury and self doubt in an unlikely journey that landed him in the West End.
What is up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of In Plain Clothes. Today is a Sunday. Again, it is boiling as usual. The past few weeks have been crazy in London. This heat wave is not letting us. So we've got the air con blasting in here. This is why literally shorts in the tank because I can't be wearing anything else. Um, past week has been a little bit crazy, I'm not gonna lie. It's been uh wild. I've been here, there, and everywhere. I think I was in uh Liverpool and London and Blackpool for a day. I was supposed to go to Wales as well, doing lots of like promo and shoots for uh dirty dancing coming up. So yeah, it's been a little bit of a wild one, but it's nice to be back in the studio. Nice to be in a familiar environment again, and we've got another guest, of course. So today's guest has performed across the country and West End in shows such as Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. Uh Very Naughty Christmas, Falling in Love with Doctor, Doctor, Mr. Delamore, excuse me, uh, Bonnie and Clyde, Adventures of Isabel, Cut, Beauty and the Beast, Jack and the Beanstalk. He's featured in multiple films, including Bridal Fever and Miser's Dream, and has performed for TV series and award shows such as Olivier Awards, uh, Royal Variety Performance, Freedom, Fifty Years of Pride, Doctor's Shakespeare's Shuffle. Along with this, Chris is also may have the most side hustles that we've ever had on this pod pod. Uh he's a go-go dancer across London, a personal trainer, life coach, manages a gym in Wimbledon, whilst also working on the design and marketing for another gym brand, which is crazy. I don't know how he juggles it all. Uh, he's achieved all of this after suffering a devastating leg injury that left him having to relearn to walk. So I can't wait to hear it all about that journey. Um, he is now performing as the dance captain in the London premiere of Train Spotting the Musical Chris Amara. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much. Hearing it all um out like that, I'm exhausted.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely exhausted.
SPEAKER_00I can imagine. When you sent me it and you were like, oh, sorry, it's a bit of a rubbish bio. I was like, is he reading the same thing that I am? And you sent a second bio explaining that you'd done all that after like a crazy like injury. So we'll definitely get to that in a bit. But how are you? How's your week been?
SPEAKER_01Good. We um we've spent a week of tech on train spotting. Yeah um and as you know, tech rehearsals are rough, rough. So um yeah, it's been a good week. Um I'm I'm tired trying to do tech in this heat wave as well. Yeah. Um and we're all in Scottish winter clothing. I think the my tracksuit's like fleece-lined. Of course. So um, yeah, 10 hours a day in in that, in the uh, in the heat. Thankfully, the theatre was quite air con. We got away with it. Backstage horrific. Oh, of course. Absolutely horrific.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, as long as the audience are cool. Exactly. Doesn't matter about backstage, doesn't matter about the performance for sure. Yeah, that's mental. Well, tell me a little bit more about you. Where you're obviously Scottish, so growing up in Scotland, how did you get into this industry? Um, and then yeah, you can lead us into how you got injured and like that journey, and yeah, tell us all about it.
SPEAKER_01Grand, yeah. So um I went to the Scottish School of Contemporary Dance. Um, I did a four-year degree there. Um uh I didn't know what contemporary dance was going into that. I in my head believed contemporary dance was lots of modern dances in the same way the contemporary musicals of the last 20-30 years.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, no, contemporary dance was was eight hours a day pretending to be a tree. Um uh and so I did that for four years. Um that was hard.
SPEAKER_00Three wasn't enough. You know, I was like, that last year of being a tree, that really just topped it off.
SPEAKER_01Really pushed me over the edge, yeah. Um I uh yeah, that that was like ballet half past eight in the morning on a Monday. Like it was it was every every um uh style of dance imaginable, yeah. Um, which was perfect. Um, it kind of uh taught me how difficult the industry was, but it was probably going down a slightly different path than I I would have liked. Um I've always been uh a musical theatre boy through and through uh lots of amateur dramatics growing up. Um and so I danced, uh joined a dance company after that, um Shaper Caper. We did um uh a version of Cut, um which is um Carmen, uh immersive promenade um set in a slaughterhouse. Uh wonderful production. Yep.
SPEAKER_00And then sounds very cheerful and like after that.
SPEAKER_01Very happy, very happy. Um nothing, nothing's nothing says um upbeat and and and fun than emerging from a pool of blood. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, in the show.
SPEAKER_00Sweeney Todd did well, so it did.
SPEAKER_01Not quite to the same degrees as you're right, fair, fair. Um and then almost a month after that, um we were um uh a couple of us were going to an airsoft range. Uh we were doing a film called Tulurian, okay. Um, which was uh an apocalyptic war um sci-fi film. Okay. Um and so we went to an airsoft range to get some practice in, running in the gear, carrying guns. Uh we did the warm-up of that. Um, and I decided I was going to sprint to try and catch the flag. And as I was sprinting, um dislocated my knee, which severed the ACL, PCL, LCL, hamstrings, meniscus, perineal nerve. Oh. Just sliced through everything. All of them. Um, and then popped back into place. Uh I did a magnificent tumble. Um, and yeah, that was me. That was my horrific injury. Um, about a month, two months after graduating with a first class honours degree in dance. That was your career start. Yeah, yeah. Um, hard going, hard going. Um especially because my entire career had been dance to this point. Everything had been relying on the body. Um, what we kind of presumed happened was uh I'd pushed myself and pushed myself to a point where my body went, I don't have much left, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Burning the candle at both ends. Um and then yeah, the injury happened. Wow.
SPEAKER_00So how long was that process to kind of heal from that and get back in the game?
SPEAKER_01Um it was about two years. Um initially, doctors said uh the plan is to get you walking again. You'll never run, you'll never dance. Let's get you up on your feet. Hearing that's just brutal. Tough, really tough. Um I had a couple of shaky, shaky days. Um, thankfully, I had my mum at my side the entire time, and she's she's very, very positive. Yeah. Um, and she reminded me that I am lucky enough to have different strings to my bow. Yeah. Um, and so it was time to start focusing on those.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so that helped me a little bit through to the recovery. But um essentially what they did was they took um hopefully no one's squeamish um hearing this. Well, if they are then um so they took um two Achilles tendons from um uh cadaver and placed those in to replace the ligaments, and then they took some of my hamstrings to replace the third ligament. Um, and I was in a so you've got another part of another human in you. We I do indeed. That's very cool. I do indeed. Um Do you know who it was? Uh no, but I'd like to well, I would like to shake their hand, but I can't because I was bedbound for about three months um whilst we were allowing that to to kind of set um uh and recover. Unfortunately, that then got infected, um, and I had to then go in for a second surgery where they washed all of it out, which then reset me three months. So I had another three months before I could properly start physio. By that time, the scar tissue had built up, and um, so we were kind of fighting a losing battle from from the beginning. Yeah, um, I had uh a paralysed foot, um, so I was in uh a brace which kept my foot at an upright angle so I could walk with my crutches. Um, I was wheelchair bound for some of that time as well. Yeah, it was just a really crazy time. Um in hindsight, there was definitely mental health issues and depression that that came with that as well.
SPEAKER_00I mean, how how can it not? I was gonna say, I'm just gonna ask you how how did you deal with that mentally, that struggle? Because that's must have been what the hardest thing imaginable, like literally coming out of college and then having to re rethink your career trajectory, even life trajectory.
SPEAKER_01Um I um was eating my feelings. Um I think I was going through probably two share bags of chili heat wave Doritos a day. Um and so when I was able to kind of get up and walk around, um uh I was invited to host uh a film festival, a local film festival. Um and we were looking for things for me to wear and nothing in my wardrobe fit me. And I think we ended up going to pre-mark and getting a 42 waist, um, which for me is is is 10 inches to more than my norm. Yeah. Um and it wasn't we just kind of didn't notice it because I wasn't moving, I wasn't able to do anything. Yeah. Um, and so that was the moment where I kind of went, oh, this is this has been a lot. This this is this is taking quite an effect on my body in ways that I wasn't expecting. Yeah. So that then added the additional battle as well of let's get walking, let's get recovered, but also we need to try and find ways to to to start to minimize this this weight gain without really being able to do much exercise. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Um I imagine like your leg had probably lost all muscle mass as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I still have um uh there's an inch difference between the the the two legs.
SPEAKER_00I mean you you wouldn't be able to tell just by looking at it, the fact that you've managed to get it back. How long ago was this? Uh this was seven, seven years. Even in seven years to get is like very impressive.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, thank you. Yeah, it's um uh it kind of was the beginning of my my gym obsession as well. Um I was in the gym um two or three times a day because of my physio. Um and I'm a very healthy leather, all or nothing kind of person. So as soon as my physio said, here's some exercises you can try at home, I heard that as here's some exercises you can do until you die 24 hours a day. Yes. Um and it was things like um because we were trying to force the um the Achilles tendons to stretch to the length of ligaments, yeah. It meant that I was spending some time in the hospital gym um strapped to this horrific torture device um where my leg would just be slowly bent um bit by bit. I was I would remember screaming the hospital down uh with the pain. Um there was there's other moments where my um uh my mum was like putting all of her weight on my leg whilst I'm braced on my desk um trying to trying to bend it past the scar tissue. Um and so some of the exercises I was doing was was exercising backwards on um uh on a bike in the gym. Yeah. Again, just trying to force the uh the bends to go a little bit further.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Long story short, um I have still partial paralysis on my foot. I struggle with um side-to-side motion. Yeah, um, and uh I have about 110 degrees flexion in the knee, so I can't flex it all the way. Um, it means that there's some things in choreography, um particularly in auditions, yeah, um, that I can't do. Or it takes me a little bit longer. I have to try and find a way of of making it work for my body.
SPEAKER_00Even the fact that you're able to still work as a dancer and a dance captain after that, something that nobody else can really relate to is incredibly impressive. Right after the doctor said that you one may never walk again, but even if you did, there's no chance you'll run, there's no chance you'll dance, you'll not and you're you're performing still as a living, which is crazy. Yeah, I'm I'm very account that like that that insane level of drive that you have. You're like, I'm getting there, I'm gonna get back out there for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think that's that's uh uh a level of drive that we as performers um uh have that is so unique. Insanity, I think, is the word. You're very right. It's not healthy. No, for sure. Um but it's it's something that um I think is quite unique to our industry is that we you you hear stories about people um twisting their ankle or or or injuring themselves on stage and getting to the end of a show before they head to the hospital. It's just that mentality of I'll get through. You get through it, you just get through it. Um and it was the same for this. Uh I uh I've had quite a few people say to me, Oh, I can't believe you managed this, or oh, it's so inspiring. But m my brain is what was what was the other option? Yeah, the other option was wallowing my own self-pity. There is no other option. No, of course not. Um so um yeah, I'm lucky, um, I'm grateful, I'm aware that I've worked very hard, but in in my mind it was it was the only option.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100% get that. Well, leading on to all your side hustles, you can pick one and start with it and then move on to the others, but how on earth have you I mean, I assume through the injury you had to like start look dipping into different parts of what else you can do, but how did you get started on all the other side hustles that you've got going on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um so the industry in Scotland is very, very different from from down here, and it kind of meant that I spent most of my early career um freelance uh hustling. It was very I mean, even working down in London, you're still paycheck to paycheck, but in Scotland your your paycheck and then four months and your next paycheck. Um and so it's just kind of built into me that if you're not working every second of the day, then that's that's not right. Um, and so um all of these side hustles are necessities. I'm caveating all of that as well with being neurodivergent and not being able to sit still. Yes, um, and so I have to be doing something actively. Um, and whether that's starting a new hobby or um learning a new language, um, I I always have to be doing something. Yeah, and so why not then also benefit from from doing those things? I love to learn, I love um uh experiencing new things from new people. Um, and so yeah, that's kind of resulted in a lot of a lot of side hustles. Um Go go dancing, I think, is probably the the the the most freeing. Um where do you do that? Um kind of all over. Um uh a lot of a lot of queer uh bars and clubs. Um for me, it's uh our industry can be quite um closed off in the sense that we don't always get creativity. Yeah, and we can go into shows and be told to stand on one, move to four, finish on three. Um whereas the kind of go-go dancing is is do whatever you want for 45 minutes on a podium and just just release, and that's exactly what it is. It's just it's just pure release.
SPEAKER_00Um you think there's an element of um we get so used to, especially in big shows like for example, Lame is, which is so set that when somebody comes comes in, there's no room for like playing with it. Like you do exactly what the show is, do you know what I mean? Yeah. That we probably even though we are creative individuals, we get so used to an environment that tells us, okay, tells us exactly what to do. Uh, and even though we're known as arts and creative, we are very much used to being told what to do. That when 45 minutes of literally no boundaries, just do whatever you want, that can be quite intimidating to a lot of people going, well, actually, I know I'm an artist, I know I'm creative, but I don't know what to do with that. That's so much freedom. Like, I need to be told something. Right.
SPEAKER_01We also have that panic of okay, you've got 16 counts at the end of this dance to now just do whatever you want in audition.
SPEAKER_00So throw a flip.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. It's the worst feeling. So awful, yeah. I hate improvising. Um, but I think because I'd done I did four years of dance, and so much of that was improvising and improvising around a theme, and um a lot of the um the the creative work and the choreography comes from playing and comes from workshopping ideas. Um, and so for me, yeah, Go-go dancing is is is super freeing and um uh a really good way to to channel the energy that I have as well. Um for me, Go-go dancing is about hyping up an audience. We are we are the people who are setting the standard of of of what the evening should be and where the audience's energy should be. Um, and so I'm always like four minutes into my set, dripping with sweat because I've been bouncing like a madman. Yeah, yeah. Um with the four moves that I have that I just rotate for for the entire set. Um the there's very few go-go dancers who will be able to improvise for 45 minutes. Yeah, yeah. No, you have you have four or five dance moves that you keep coming back to. One of them is very easy, usually facing the back. Yes. So you can just be like, this is awful, this is horrible, let's get through this. Yeah, yeah. And then you turn back around and you're back into it again. Yeah. Um, so that's great fun. That's um something that I've only really learned to do in London. Um uh a lot of people see it uh being quite sexualized or um being uh uh for for a certain type of person, but actually for a performer it's it's it's really great fun. Yeah. Um uh I I also uh I'm learning that I'm not a massive fan of clubbing and um and going out purely because I don't like to be surrounded by so many people in this space that I'm not very necessarily comfortable with anyway. Yeah, and so it's a really great way to almost force me after a week of shows um or um yeah e even in some time off, just to kind of go, no, no, no, I've got this now. I can go out, party in my own way, and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00And actually still have space because they can't come too close to you anyway.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. You'll be surprised how small some of the podiums we've danced on is. But it's better than being bumped by 45 different people the the entire night. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And then you're you've got obviously you're a PT as well, and you're at a gym and you're doing stuff for the another gym as well. Like have you managed to balance all that?
SPEAKER_01So uh again, you know what the industry is like is that we have we have our moments of downtime uh uh and between shows. Um, and uh I have been lucky enough since I moved down to London, I I haven't stopped working in the five years. Um very, very grateful, also knowing that I've worked hard for that. Um, but I got to the end of last year um and I was doing pantomime in Blackpool um and I realized that I was exhausted physically, mentally, emotionally. Um I didn't really have much left. And so um I made a decision at the end of last year to take a break. Plan was to take six to twelve months, um, just our reset again, neurodivergency. We like to hyperfocus on things um and we burn out very, very quickly. And and so that's what the end of last year was. I I was definitely burnt out. Um, and so I was lucky enough. I had a friend who was managing um a couple of gyms, um, who was looking for someone in front of house, um, and that kind of felt perfect to me. Uh, sitting on a front desk, welcoming people in. Um it was kind of like the ideal, let's take a break, let's take a breather. Um, but we are um uh victims of our own success um uh in this industry, and I couldn't help but be quite good at my job. And then that led me to then become manager of the gym. Um and whilst I was doing all of that. You only just got the job like a few months ago.
SPEAKER_00It was definitely within three months.
SPEAKER_01That's insane. Yes, everything happened very, very quickly. Yeah, and whilst that was happening, again, one of the skills um during COVID, um, whilst we were all told to retrain, um, I retrained as a uh a video editor. Um, and so I was doing um uh various social media things and uh video work for the the fitness company, which then led me to um design one of their new gyms that they just opened up in Woking. Wow, and so I did a lot all of the uh the the brig brand work for for the company. Very cool, which is which is amazing, really exciting. I was there four months, yeah, hyper focused on it, put all my work into it, burnt out, uh, and then thankfully train spotting came along uh at the right time, and so I was able to to to move on from that and now focus focus on train spotting.
SPEAKER_00Well, tell tell me about train spotting. Like you've been obviously you've been doing rehearsals, you're now in tech. It opens, I'm guessing, like next week in a couple weeks. Yes. Um what's the kind of the story of it as well? Because I don't know a huge amount about it.
SPEAKER_01Um it's uh not a very happy story. Um uh it is um we have the the cult classic of the film with Ewan McGregor. Um we also have the book written by Ervon Welsh. Um the musical is kind of the amalgamation of that um as well as uh kind of its own creation. Yeah um the the book and the film are both quite episodic, and especially the book, the way the book is written, um ingeniously so, is you each chapter is is um a part of a story from a different character's point of view. Okay, um, and you also never really find out which character it is, you have to kind of figure it out as part of the the reading. Um one example is that when um one of the group of five um is is telling you their story, they'll mention the four other names, and so then you have to kind of go, Oh well, of course it's it's sick boy, or of course it's it's it's Renton, or yeah. Um and so the musical is very like that, it's very, very fast. Um it's lots of little episodes. Uh but what's wonderful about the musical is it's telling the story of um how heroin and uh the AIDS epidemic in Edinburgh um affects the wider community and the families, um which the the the the film doesn't really go into. There's there's more detail about it in in um the book. Um Irving Welsh has also written three or four other books in the series, yeah, um, which has a lot more detail. Um Skag Boys, I think is the uh the the the very first. One. Um, he's just come out another one, uh, which is um men in love, boys in love. Um, and so uh a lot of the information has been taken from this this this universe that he's created to to create the musical. Um it's wonderful, it's it's uh uh it takes you up and it takes you down. It's uh wonderfully Scottish um to the point that actually there's some moments when I'm not entirely sure what the the what's going on and what what the dialect is.
SPEAKER_00So audience are gonna have a field trip with that one.
SPEAKER_01I'm hoping it's captioned um for for especially when we take it on tour for for some of our um our northern friends. Yes. Um it might be a bit difficult. Um it is uh combination of music from the film, yeah, um, as well as some original music um written by Steve. Uh he he uh the way his mind works um uh is just incredible. And so each song is almost uh it is a genre of its own. We have a country and western song, we have a punk rock song, we have um ska, um, but it's all been intertwined in this electronic um soundscape. So it all comes from the same world. It's it's very interesting. I I I'm ready for an audience to now kind of see what it looks like. I think they're gonna get punched in the face um by by by the musical, so it'll be interesting to see what they come back with. Where is it playing at? We're at the um Theatre Royal Haymarket until um September, and then we're gonna have to come and see it then, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oftentime rehearsal evenings, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Perfect, perfect. Um, and then we take it on tour um across the UK from October to March, and then we'll see what happens after that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I'm very much looking forward to seeing it and seeing, yeah. Um I don't like I've said, I didn't know a huge amount about it, so I feel like it's gonna take me on a journey. I'm looking forward to it. Very, it's very that. It'll take you on a journey and then we're gonna play a game. Great. Underneath the chair, you've got um whiteboard and pen. Right. And I'm sure if you've had a look at the um any of the reels or anything, then you'll kind of know what this is. Uh, but I'm gonna ask you some deeper questions now. Okay. Um at the same time, you're gonna have to figure out if you can multitask. Um, and you're gonna draw a scenario. Well, we're both gonna draw a scenario. And that scenario is gonna be in that glass so you can pick up a piece of piece of paper out of that. Um, and we're gonna just see how it goes.
SPEAKER_01I'm so not arty. Okay. Um a harbour with boats. Okay. A harbour with boats. How lovely. I'm originally from our broath, um, North East Scotland, um, which is famous for its smoked fish. Are both smokies. Yeah. And so um I should be good at this. Lovely stuff. But I can't do it.
SPEAKER_00Whilst talking at the same time. Okay, okay, yeah. Okay. You ready? Okay, first of all. First question What was the hardest period of your life and how did you survive it? Okay, that isn't the same as obviously that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think I think we're pretty close. I think we're pretty close. Um, yeah, that was that was um definitely the toughest part of my life. Um, but I would also say it is um uh the the the greatest thing that's happened to me as well. Um I uh uh learnt a lot about myself and it took me down, um it allowed me to to digress from a path that would have been wonderful to go down, but I'm very lucky now that I'm doing what I'm doing. Um it also led me to to Cabaret, um which um is also uh one of the greatest experiences of my life. Uh I I've I've come to terms with the fact that anything I do now will be um either less than or a side. Yes. Um cover MC, right? Cover MC, yeah, in the second year. Um and lucky enough to go on for it, um, which uh I hated every second of until I stepped off the stage and then thought it was the greatest experience of my life. Um but yeah, that was the that was definitely the hardest part of my life. Um uh at the time um I couldn't really see past. Um I didn't know what the goal was because the the the goalposts had been um were felt so short to be told that the aim is to walk again when my entire life had been about running and dancing and um tough mudders and just doing crazy things, jumping out of planes, or like to then be told no, you're you're you're walking for the rest of your life. Um yeah, so I I would say that's probably the most difficult, difficult part. Okay.
SPEAKER_00What insecurity has followed you throughout your life? Woofed.
SPEAKER_01Um I uh multiple. Um uh body dysmorphia is is one of them. Um I think a lot of us in the industry, um uh particularly males, um, there is this standard to have the leading man body. Um and then when you achieve that, it's um not enough. And so then you you you you see what's next. Um for me, I I um I'm never happy with with what I see in the uh in the mirror.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um uh and although it's uh um uh a good thing in the sense that it keeps me working hard, it keeps me um motivated to better myself, yeah. Um it also prevents me from doing things um based on how I feel I look that morning. Um I got that, which is uh yeah, which is difficult. Um I I I wish I was comfortable enough to feel unhappy in my body, but still go and swimwear and and things like that. I I'm not sure I'll ever get to that place. Um uh first step is is awareness. Um uh but um yeah, that's that's probably the the the most difficult one. Um uh and then imposter syndrome as well. Um I think because of the the injury um my brain tells me that I am um not going to be capable um of what everyone else in the room can do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um also knowing that what I can do now is also not what I was able to do before.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and so I particularly with Cabaret, I really struggled to begin with. Um uh I uh for whatever reason my injury hadn't been disclosed um to production um from day one. And so I had to go around um all of the creatives and let them know, oh by the way, I have this injury. Yeah, um, I can't do this, I can't do that. Um the choreography you're asking me to do down on my knees, I can't physically do. Yeah. Um and that put me in a really uncomfortable position where I felt like if they're not happy with that, then they could you could lose your job. Yeah, and also would they have hired me if they'd known I had the injury? Um and so um I really struggled for for uh for almost a full year first year of cabaret um to to come to terms with being good enough and um uh accepting that they have they have given me the job because of who I was and not because of what I was capable of. Yeah. Um I have imposter syndrome every time I walk into a room and I have to now just kind of put coping strategies into place or talk myself out of it. Um again, being aware of it is is the first thing, yeah. And knowing that when that starts to creep in, what that feeling is, and just reminding myself to to back off, allow allow yourself to feel these feelings, but also they're not necessarily my truth. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00What is something you've never fully forgiven yourself for?
SPEAKER_01Um, I wasn't a very nice kid to my parents. Um uh these are deep questions, especially.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so I uh I'm the eldest of three. Yeah. Now I feel this is unfair. My pen's my pen's struggling.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we have some spare ones. Do we have a second tree? You're okay to grab us a just in the in the suitcase there. This artwork deserves only the finest penmanship. Um there'll be a couple of dropped ones there. That's fine, we'll cut this out. You don't have to stay silent.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. I think that much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that much.
SPEAKER_01So no one will ever know. And play. Um, yeah, I wasn't a very nice child to my parents. Um, I was uh I'm the oldest son of three. My middle brother, um Johnny O'Mara, uh three years younger, he's a professional tennis player. Yeah, um, and he was uh incredible from a very young age. Um and so whilst we were growing up, he um garnered quite a bit of attention from my parents out of necessity, um, to the point that my dad gave up um his job to look after him. Yeah. Um and what that meant is that then I kind of wasn't necessarily receiving uh the attention that uh that I needed. Um I was also uh a very clever young child. Um uh I I was uh above my years um at primary school. Um and when I moved to secondary school, um uh again I wasn't necessarily getting the attention I needed because it was the unruly children that that would take all of the attention from the teachers and those of us that behaved and got on with our work. Um and so I I yeah, I think I was uh quite an attention-starved child. Yeah, and the way I uh presented that was to act up and to to to misbehave for my parents. Um if you asked anyone, I was the anyone else, I was the perfect child. I was so well behaved, and uh, but to to them I was I was really not very nice. Yeah. Um and uh I think that's something I I probably never forgive myself for. Um uh it's it's one of those difficult things where as a child you you you can't blame yourself for for the things that that that that are in the past. Yes, of course. Um and also I I I don't have any regrets. Yeah, um, I I don't think you can move forward in life holding um that carrying the baggage of of regret.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I I I do wish that I'd been slightly kinder to them. Um and it's something that in my older years um that I I I make sure that I let them know how grateful I am I am for them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_01You're making a mention, for sure.
SPEAKER_00What do you think your younger self would be most proud of?
SPEAKER_01I think uh my younger self would be most proud of um me accepting my queerness so openly. Um uh again, living in Scotland, growing up, um the word queer doesn't exist. Um it was it was there are gays, there are lesbians, there are um uh homosexuals, there's there's nothing really that celebrates queer people. Yeah. Um and I think I maybe knew four or five gay people from uh up until the age of 18.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um it's just it's just not a thing. I I think there's maybe something like seven gay bars across Scotland, or at least in the bigger cities combined. Yeah. Um and so it wasn't until I moved on to London where I I I really um uh was immersed in in queerness and uh chosen family. And again, Cabaret was the very uh the perfect place for that. Yeah. Um uh stepping into the building is about um accepting who you are, no matter who you are. Um uh and um but as as a young child I it felt like I had to hide that from most of my life. Um and uh so I think he'd be most proud of that, as as well as just persevering through through through every aspect of my life, um, no matter how how difficult it gets, whether that's being queer or whether that's the injury or whether that's financially in uh a difficult industry. Um yeah, um I I I pride myself on my resilience and my ability just to just just to get through it. It always works out. Yeah. Um usually because I stress myself up until the very last second, it always always works out.
SPEAKER_00No, that's a fantastic answer. Um what do you think your younger self would be most disappointed by?
SPEAKER_01If I if I'm honest, I I don't think there is anything now in my life that my younger self would be disappointed in. I think that's what's a great thing to be.
SPEAKER_00That's a great way to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I think um I think in every aspect of my life I am happy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, which uh I I I I'm aware that that's uh quite a a privileged place to be. Um that doesn't mean things are perfect, that doesn't mean thing that there are um things that that I would like to change um or things that will naturally change, but um I'm I'm in a very happy place. Um uh I'm very also very good at finding the positive in everything.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh and so even if things were a little bit difficult, it could still be worse. Yeah. Um I think if I was to be disappointed with anything, um would be unfair to how hard I've worked and to how um loved I feel and lucky I am to be to be where I am today. Um and so yeah, probably nothing.
SPEAKER_00That's a that's a perfectly reasonable answer, I think. I like that. What was the first major heartbreak you experienced? Heartbreak.
SPEAKER_01I can't answer these questions and draw. This is the whole point.
SPEAKER_00So it's called draw or distract because you can get very distracted whilst trying to draw. It is not. And it's just such great detailed answers as well.
SPEAKER_01Um, my first heartbreak. Um I think my first heartbreak, so um, I uh at one point in my life was engaged um to uh uh a very lovely um young man um called Harry. Um uh I have realized in my um in relationships, um, due to various things that happened when I was younger, that I like to either be the mentor or the mentee in my relationships. I like uh in life, I I I naturally want to share experience and um help people along. And um uh and so in this case, that's that's kind of what happened. In the five years that we were together, um I kind of helped them along their own journey. They became a dancer, um, they did the course that I um uh uh that that I trained in. Yeah. Um they also found uh drag and um I I helped them through through through some of that towards the end of our relationship. Um uh but it wasn't until towards the end of it that I realized that I I just needed a little bit more from the relationship. I I was giving an awful lot, yes, and I wasn't necessarily receiving that back. Um and um in all fairness, he was honest and he said that he wasn't able to do that, he wasn't able to provide me the more that I was looking for.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um and it was a natural time for us to to to no longer be in a relationship. Yeah, um, and I th I remember being really, really heartbroken. Yeah, and it wasn't necessarily because I I uh I I suppose at one time I did see myself with with with Harry for for the rest of my life. Um again in hindsight, that's not necessarily something I believe in anymore. Um but um yeah, the weeks that followed that were really difficult, um to the point that I think I had to I had to phone Samaritans um at one point just to have another person to speak to and to to be a sounding board and and hear what I was feeling, and because I didn't know who to turn to and I didn't I hadn't felt these feelings before. Yeah um uh what it has also taught me is that I um although I believe I have too much love to give one person, um which is why uh the ideas of polyamory and open relationships are far more interesting to me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but I also now know that I need quite a bit of love in return. Yes. Um uh and that probably comes back to the the the need for attention when I was younger as well. That I I need a bit more of that from from the relationships that I'm in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Lovely. How's your drawing coming along? You ready to present?
SPEAKER_01Honestly, it looks like something a child would have drawn.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we are on whiteboards using pens, so like I think it's always gonna look like that regardless. I think you're absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I think this is probably the best I'm ever going to be able to do, especially when bearing my soul um turning a part of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, do both of those things at the same time is very difficult. So if you face it towards your camera and and talk us through it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's so elementary. Oh gosh. So disappointed in myself. No, it's to the point that I actually was really going to go into detail with this lovely um this was going to be a fish and chips with the awning, and then I started speaking about heartbreak, and um instead of the floor.
SPEAKER_00But we can we can imagine that of like trying to photoshop it.
SPEAKER_01Um and I've never been very good at drawing boats.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I've never been very good at drawing anyway.
SPEAKER_01So I'm desperate to see yours.
SPEAKER_00Uh okay, well, we have um That's as always there is so much better. And you Okay. I have far more time. You've been listening. I've been listening, and I can draw the scenes on it. But yeah, I mean, I guess tough expansion. We've got a cruise ship in the back, a couple of boats, got the planks. In the wood. In the wood. It was I was because I was looking from the front, I was like, okay, so the the back of the um the the poles that are holding the the uh jetty is it up have to be on the inside there and on the inside. Oh yeah, so we actually have perspective. Perspective. He has he has absolutely suckered me into this.
SPEAKER_01He said he hasn't he's not good at art.
SPEAKER_00This is the you know what this this happens every episode. I'm not gonna say the reason I chose this is because I was never gonna choose something I was good at because it's more interesting when you do things you're a bad at. So like I was like, I've never been good at drawing, so I'll use this for the podcast. I don't know whether it's because I'm not talking as much when I'm doing this, but literally every time I have someone on, I show them on, and then I'll go, come on, I guess. I think you're delusional. I think you're delusional.
SPEAKER_01I think you're under selling yourself just for the per.
SPEAKER_00I think the whole point of this podcast is just so you can show off your artistic agent. Anyone uh looking for you know artists in any way? Yeah, um yeah, if you like stick man, I'm your guy. Uh beautiful. Well, don't rub anything off. We're gonna save that for later. Um and I wanted to ask you a little theme episode. Okay theme of the episode, if you will. Um the theme is how performing affects relationships. Now, this can be friendships, it can be uh your relationship with family, it can be um romantic um partnerships. But for good or for bad, working in an industry where one you're very close and almost intimate with everybody you work with, but also in an industry that can take you anywhere around the world, so you almost end up doing things at long distance. What are the positives and negatives you found from being relationships with family or anybody whilst being in this industry?
SPEAKER_01Um I cannot begin to tell you how perfect the person I am to answer this question. Um uh that's great. In the last you new having ideas. Yeah. Um so the last five years I have been in a relationship, uh polyamorous relationship. Um I met them uh whilst on Cabaret um at the very, very beginning, day two of Cabaret. Um and um so we've been in a relationship. Um we have been in a relationship. We ended that um in October, just gone. All very amicable, all very adult. Um we're best friends, um, we're we're we're close than that, we're family. Yeah, we message each other every day. Um I I can't imagine not having him in my life. Um, which is one of the wonderful things about Polyamory. I remember very early on in the relationship, um, he said um uh the relationship is for today. Yeah, tomorrow we'll see, but for today, um which is a really wonderful way of looking at it. It's a wonderful way of looking at anything. Um uh but I remember at the time thinking, what an unusual thing to to start a relationship on. Um it almost feels like you're setting it up for failure. Yeah. Um uh however now that the relationship has ended, it actually made the ending of the relationship easier because we had we had set this as being a possibility. Yeah. And it meant that when the day did come and we were ready to to let the relationship um let the relationship go and let each other. Move on, um, it allowed us to then uh continue this this really close bond that we have. Um, but that was a uh a trying five years for both of us, um, not uh from the actual relationship point of view, we were we were a very, very close uh couple. Um we also had um uh the wonderful um Steve, who was um uh um uh another member of the Polycule. Um my my partner um Matt um was the anchor, um and he had myself and Steve off either side. Um uh and it was at least as far as I was aware, very harmonious. Um uh we all got on very well. Um always gonna have our ups and downs, yeah. Um but we were quite communicative. We um uh realized when the other person needed uh support or just needed an ear to listen. Um but there were a lot of obstacles uh in the five years, um uh especially both being performers. Yeah. Um uh I believe that I probably couldn't be in a relationship with anyone who wasn't a performer. Yeah um I think there needs to be at least a strong knowledge of the industry um because we don't lead normal lives. We have very antisocial hours. Um uh we have times when we can be away on tour for six months to a year at a time. Um we have times when we can be on a cruise ship on the other side of the world and not uh be able to speak to each other for for weeks at a time because of different time zones and things like this. Um so then I I think there needs to be uh an understanding, at least from my side of things. Yeah. Um there also needs to be for me um uh someone who doesn't mind me not making time for them. Um because our time is so precious and it comes so few and far between that if we're on an eight-show schedule, um my day consists of I need to be in the gym and then I have a first show, and then I have to sustain myself with food, and then I have to do a second show, and by the time I want to get home, I'm ready for bed to restart the day again. So I it would need to be someone that I'm coming home to, or someone that I'm going home with because they're in the show or they're on a similar schedule. Um I was on a um I was on a cruise ship for um two different contracts for six months during the five years. Um and we maybe only saw each other in person. Um, I think one of those contracts we both met in Bergen um and we had a day there, and that was the first time we'd seen each other in three months. Yeah. Um and it was really lovely. Um, but again, there was that mutual understanding that this is the job, this is the way it is. Um I think I would I think if I was not in the industry and I was with someone who had a schedule like that, I think I'd find that really difficult. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um even just like the like the support aspect of it. If you're coming home from a day and you're like, oh, I've had a day because this company has treated me like this, um, and then they wanted me to go here and I'm I'm not supposed to go in there, that's not my track, and that if they don't understand kind of how the industry works, they're like, that doesn't sound that much of a big deal to me. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh, you don't you don't get it just because of this isn't your world, do you know what I mean? It's just have someone having that level of understanding to be able to go, I know exactly what that feels like. That's why I'm I'm here with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. If I was to say to someone that they threw me on for a role halfway through, yeah, that sounds wonderful. Yeah. I'm getting on stage. Yeah, yeah. How fantastic. Oh my god, you got your moment, you got your moment to shine. You were but that's that's really so difficult. Um to go from being sat backstage uh if it for on cabaret was a swing for for for the time that I was there. Yeah. And it would happen regularly. You'd you'd have you'd have three minutes to throw your makeup and costume on um whilst they were wigging you and putting a microphone on before you went on for a part that you maybe hadn't played in in two months. Yeah. Um it's absolutely exhausting. Yeah. Um, and the stress that comes with it, and you spend the rest of the show and then the couple of hours after the show in this heightened state. Yeah. But anyone who's not in the industry doesn't, yeah. Oh my god, you got to go on tonight. How wonderful. That's really exciting. Congratulations. Uh you must um it's the last, yeah. Uh yeah, it it's difficult, it's really difficult. Um and then on top of all of that, that's being in show schedule when you're in rehearsal and when you're in tech. Um, I I saw on Instagram someone um in the industry posted um a few slides about this, this, this time period. Um, and uh it said uh you need to speak to friends and family before you start and remind them you're not gonna see them for two months. I don't have time for you. Um I uh this last week in tech, um uh we were lucky that the beginning of the week started off quite slowly for us, but we were down in Guildford, so that meant first of all I was away for a week. Um, but we were middle of the day, right until the very end of the day, um trying to fit the gym possibly into that as well. You just don't see anyone. Yeah, you just don't have time or energy for anyone else. And then you have this really difficult battle with your one day off a week, knowing that you have to rest during that time. Yeah, but it's the only day off I get.
SPEAKER_00So you have to say, do you all your jobs and stuff on that day?
SPEAKER_01I have to do all my jobs and then maybe try and see people, but I don't have a social battery because I've just done eight shows. Um look, don't get me wrong, all of this is very woe is me and how hard it is to be booked and blessed.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, but it's okay to be like you can still be grateful and not always be sunshine and roses. Do you know what I mean? It's very important to recognise that there is a balance, and at the end of the day, it is still a job. Very all jobs, no matter how great they are, are still tiring and hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we we know what we're getting into, yeah, and we love what we're getting into. It doesn't change the fact, as you say, that it's it's very difficult. Um, and um uh my my social circle in London since I moved down is is is quite small. There's there's there's probably a handful of people that I could um send a message to and we'd actually go and be able to go for a drink or or a meal together because we just don't have the time to build that up. Never mind then um a relationship um that we can sustain um out with the industry. So so for me, my my personal experience is I I would need to be in a relationship with someone in the industry for them to have an understanding, um, similar similar schedule, um uh and yeah, just just just a knowledge that this is this is difficult for for both parties, and we will get through this because we both know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that with me. We're gonna do some quick questions. Like quick fire. We've got like 15, 10, 15. Great. One or the other, A or B. Yeah. Fame or anonymity? Quick, quick, quick, quick. Anonymity. Fictional or historical? Fictional. Uh breakfast or dinner? Breakfast. Work or play? Play. Pizza or pasta. Pizza. Win or learn? Learn. Email or phone? Email every day. Yacht or jet? Jet. Fame or respect? Respect. Tradition or innovation? Innovation. Adventure or comfort? Adventure. Risk or caution? Risk. Coffee or tea? Coffee, coffee, coffee. Legacy or success. Ooh, legacy. And one word to describe yourself.
SPEAKER_05One word. One word.
SPEAKER_01Positively uplifting. Oh, one word.
SPEAKER_00Or one with a dash and other fair. Alright, just before we go, because we need to wrap up very quickly. Have you got an embarrassing story that you've either witnessed of yourself or somebody else, or um even life within theatre, whatever it is?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I had an audition. Um this this may be embarrassing for some. This may be a compliment for others. Um uh for me it was just an unusual experience. Um, I had uh um an audition for a big show. I'm not gonna go into too much detail because this person will know who they are, and I love them to pieces. They're an incredible, incredible person. Um uh, but at the time they didn't know me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so I was in an audition um for the panel. I think this was my first audition back after COVID. Yeah. And I think I had just been on a uh a holiday, a four-day holiday um in Barcelona. Um uh and I I had drunk nothing but Prosecco and orange juice the entire time. Yes. I think I got back to Edinburgh on the flight on the Monday, and the audition was in London on the Tuesday.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so flew down um multiple coffees to keep myself awake because it'd been an all-nighter to to to catch the the flight that I needed in the morning. Um, saw the audition panel, um, sang um a song, uh Fight the Dragons from Big Fish at double the speed that it should be sung at. Um and uh that was the audition. Walked out. Um and then my agent almost immediately phoned me and said, uh, are you okay? Is everything alright? I was like, yeah, fine. I'm just really like pumped. I think I don't know how I don't know how that went. Yeah, yeah. The casting director had asked um my agent if I was autistic, um, based on how we had interacted in the audition. Now I can completely understand why. Yeah. And um uh now with the knowledge as well that um I am neurospicy, there is there is new neurodivergencies there. Yeah um but yeah, that was that was the the the the casting director's reaction. Um I was then invited to do a dance audition following that, yeah, which was one of the most overwhelming, intimidating experiences I have ever had. It was me, the choreographer, casting director, director, and associate choreographer in a roomed pineapple for two hours. And it was just let's improvise. Um, here's some salsa dancing, we're gonna do a little routine. Let's try this, let's try that. Um, but the casting director had asked my agent if he could meet me beforehand, just before we went in, just to give me a pep talk. No way. After how I had been the last time. He was like, look, they like you, they want you to succeed, just breathe. Calm down. Um did you get the job? Well, I got to the very end of the dance audition and the choreographer said, Okay, I'm gonna put a track on. I want you to dance to it because I haven't believed anything you've done for the last hour, 50 minutes. Right. Like that wasn't a waste. Bearing in mind, I'd also just split my hand open and had to have surgery on that, so I was still in some form of cast and bandage. Wonderful. I just split the with my um fiance from the five years. Um, and so I gave one of the emotional improvisations I've ever uh I've ever given. I was in tears by the end of it. Um, and uh yes, I got the job. Um I was told in a pub about 15 minutes after we got the job. No way um that I got the job.
SPEAKER_00So well, congratulations, made it all work.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Dave. And and that was the life-changing job as well. That was the job that that was my my big break. So there you go. So it all went well, yeah. But um, I now know that I need to just calm down and maybe not have a cold brew before I do an audition. Yep, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00Chris, thank you so much for coming in. It's been wonderful. I didn't obviously know you before this, so it's it's wonderful to hear all your stories fresh without any any you know knowledge of of anything you've been through before. Um, so yeah, thank you for taking some time to come and talk to me today. Thank you for having me. It's been so wonderful. And yeah, guys, thanks for checking in. Uh go watch Chris in uh train spotting at which national Royal Hay Market. Feature Royal Haymarket if you're in London. If you're not, come down to London. Make sure to check him out. And we'll catch you in the next one. See you later. Beautiful.