Shaping Dressage | Monica Theodorescu

A former Olympic champion turned German national coach since 2012, Monica has helped shape one of the most dominant teams in modern dressage. Beyond the arena, she also plays a key role in the future of the sport as Deputy Chair of the FEI Dressage Committee.

Recorded in Basel, the conversation moves between high-level sport and the realities behind it, from team culture and pressure, to the role of grooms, communication, and the evolution of dressage.

She also looks back at the 2025 FEI Dressage European Championship at Jiva Hill Stables in Crozet, France, how it came together, and what made it special for riders, coaches and the audience alike.

Along the way, Monica shares her view on competition, on what makes champions like Isabell Werth stand out, and on the one thing that sits at the heart of it all: the relationship between horse and rider.

Welcome to Jiva Talk, a podcast for dressage fans… and those curious to discover what it’s really about.

Chapter photos :
Christophe Tanière 
Daniel San Jose
Kirsty Pasto Media
Sofya K Equine Photography

Presented by Jiva Hill Events 
© 2026 - Jiva Hill Dressage Association

Transcript

JIVA TALK | Dressage, From the Inside | Monica Theodorescu

Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may contain minor errors or inaccuracies.

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(0:08) Welcome to Jiva Talk. 

(0:10) I'm your host, Brian Haugen. 

(0:11) The Jiva Talk series is is aimed at people who love dressage, but also those who are maybe less familiar but interested in the sport. 

(0:21) This podcast is produced by Jiva Hills Stables, host of the 2025 FEI Dressage European Championship. 

(0:29) Today, we have the immense privilege of sharing a conversation with Monica Theodorescu.

(0:36) Monica needs no introduction. 

(0:38) She's a world class writer who transitioned to coaching and being a key figure, for team Germany, but also for the sport of dressage, including a role of deputy chair for the FEI dressage committee and just really one of the key voices and and leaders of the sport. 

(0:59) The conversation with Monica took place in January in Basel. 

(1:03) I hope you will enjoy this conversation as much as I enjoyed, recording it. 

(1:09) This is Jiva Talk with Monica Theodorescu 

(1:17) It's been quite a while that, I'm the German national coach. 

(1:22) Since October 2012, I can hardly believe well, I actually still feel like a rider most of the time. 

(1:31) And that was was, of course, the greatest, and I had a a great career. 

(1:35) I was very happy, and our federation had asked me about a year and a half before the transition if I could imagine. 

(1:43) And so, I mean, this is not an easy decision to take, but, well, I was then 49, and I had seen and done a lot. 

(1:52) So I thought this is actually an honor to be asked to become the German national coach. 

(1:59) And so it took me a while, as I said, one and a half year also to get through this preparation phase with my husband. 

(2:08) Also, what do we do with our facility, with our training center and horses, and how do I deal with that? 

(2:19) It's not just a job that where you think, okay. 

(2:22) Let's give it a try. 

(2:23) I think also for my career, it was a good decision, and I love what I'm doing. 

(2:29) I still have the possibility to work with the best riders and horses in the world existing. 

(2:38) Also, tradition and breeding and training and in all disciplines in in equestrian. 

(2:46) And, of course, dressage was always very successful, but also combined with some pressure. 

(2:53) So I know pressure, so I can deal with it. 

(2:55) And they I think they probably knew that I can deal with it. 

(2:58) And so since 2012, I keep working for my riders, my teams, and and our federation. 

(3:08) And before the support also, because you're part of the FEI dressage committee as deputy chair, it's important for you to be able to bridge the tradition and that vision for the future of dressage? 

(3:24) Yes. 

(3:24) It's very interesting. 

(3:25) I mean, I have I was on the committee as a writer's representative in the I think in the late nine nineties, early two thousand, something like that. 

(3:36) I was already, for a while, on the committee, so I knew I had some experience with the FEI and, well, how, well, these federations work, how how it the functioning is. 

(3:51) And it's I like it. 

(3:52) It's interesting. 

(3:53) I mean, to me, it's interesting to to hear different opinions, different interests. 

(3:59) I was also on the committee as a writer's representative in Germany for a long time, also to listen, to discuss, to find solutions, and I find that very interesting. 

(4:11) And, of course, at the moment, we are really in a in in times of change, Probably maybe always, but at the moment, it is there's some pressure on the change as well. 

(4:23) And so it's it's really an an honor and also responsibility to be part of it, of this change, and try to find solutions that help the sport, but also help the public, help the audience, and, well, helps the the society and the community of Equestrian. 

(4:46) It's important, and it's it's very interesting. 

(4:49) It's really interesting, and we have some, great, input from different sides, from different, let's say, to stakeholders or ex experts, but also experts from the outside and and also to deal with communication. 

(5:12) I mean, as a writer or in former times as a rider, you didn't need to do that. 

(5:16) But these days, of course, communication has such a such a value and such an impact on everything that is, to me, still new or still remind myself that I have to think about it because it's it's not just us. 

(5:34) There's so much around it and so much well, it has such such a big impact spreading out everywhere. 

(5:42) And whatever somebody says or does, it's right away, it's out there. 

(5:48) And that is different than in my time as an as a rider, for example. 

(5:54) Before we talk about Jiva, I just wanted to ask you about that team element. 

(5:59) What's impressive with the German team, obviously, the the level is amazing, but it's also the the teamwork. 

(6:08) And I remember when I saw Isabell and and you and the trainers and the coaches and groom, in 2024 for the the CDI at Gvale stables, it was like, wow. 

(6:21) Okay. 

(6:22) This is, like, serious. 

(6:25) Of course. 

(6:26) I mean, it starts with a horse, so there's nothing without a horse. 

(6:30) And no rider is a rider if there's no horse. 

(6:33) So it it's all about the horse. 

(6:35) But the the group around the horses is becoming bigger, or it's it's it's a lot. 

(6:43) There's many people to deal with the horse, and that's very interesting. 

(6:48) It's the same thing. 

(6:49) We need the input from everyone. 

(6:51) And very important is most important is the groom because she is most of the time with the horse. 

(7:01) And, I mean, Isabell's groom, she has been grooming for for me for a while as well. 

(7:06) I know her since she was a young girl. 

(7:08) So and we know each other for such a long time. 

(7:12) And the same is with Freddie Vandres or Katharina Hemmer. 

(7:17) She's nourished since she started regional shows. 

(7:21) So there's a lot we know. 

(7:25) We know a lot about, or I know a lot about these these people, and or we know each other for a long time. 

(7:30) It's like a family business somehow. 

(7:32) Yeah? 

(7:33) And this is how we look at it as well. 

(7:35) It's a team as long as we we are fighting for the team metal, we are a team. 

(7:41) And afterwards, okay, there is more competition within each other, but still this is competition ring. 

(7:48) In the stables and around there, we are a team, and we are family. 

(7:52) And so we enjoy being with each other, and we enjoy the time we spend with each other. 

(7:57) And, of course, nobody needs to be big buddies, but still, we need to have a respectful and harmonious communication and being with each other. 

(8:08) And then it's everyone enjoys having it. 

(8:12) And, of course, a place like Jiva Hill, some other places, but there you find also this family atmosphere. 

(8:23) And that is very friendly, very respectful, and with style. 

(8:28) And that helps also to have a positive, not just the ambiance atmosphere and Yes. 

(8:37) Well, also some brilliance and a good place with nice people and and, yeah, respectful and stylish people. 

(8:46) I mean, not stylish, like, just from the outside, but with empathy and with a heart. 

(8:53) They're all behind that. 

(8:54) And Etienne and the family as well, there are such you feel this heartful attitude. 

(9:00) And that helps also for being what we are or what we're doing and showing what we're doing because everyone feels, wow. 

(9:09) Wow. 

(9:10) It's beautiful, and we like it. 

(9:11) And breakfast was great, so let's go. 

(9:15) You know, all these details are so important, and so we talk about positive things. 

(9:21) And that leads us to some, hopefully, some some good results then. 

(9:26) Thank you. 

(9:27) Thank you very much. 

(9:28) And it's true that, I think for for Virginia and Ian Lundin, well, especially Virginia, it's the philosophy of Jiva is definitely horse first. 

(9:39) Absolutely. 

(9:40) You can absolutely feel that. 

(9:41) I mean, every, since these few times I've been there, it has improved again and again for the horses and also for the grooms, be the ones that are around the horses all the time. 

(9:54) So every wish that somebody could have is right away is is fulfilled. 

(10:02) And and still we do serious sport, But it helps I mean, I I like everything to be positive and harmonious. 

(10:13) That doesn't mean that we don't discuss things, and we are sometimes of different opinions. 

(10:18) But it's the way how you deal with things and how you find solutions. 

(10:23) And, this is a place with a positive energy that, that you can feel it, and then then you strive for for being better, and it works. 

(10:35) So in 2024, during the CD I five star, we interviewed Isabell. 

(10:40) I asked her how did she hear about Jiva Hill, and she said, well, Monica, told me about it and suggested I go. 

(10:48) And I think you had a big impact in suggesting that the next Europeans happen at Jiva because of, Saint Laurent in Slovakia withdrawing. 

(10:58) Can you tell us about that? 

(11:00) Well, as as you said, I'm on the committee, and, also, I'm quite close to Raphael Saleh. 

(11:06) Well, he suggested or he said, what do you think? 

(11:09) And I said, well, wow. 

(11:11) It will not be huge. 

(11:14) It will not be the biggest, but, I mean, to I know what we like, and I know what dressage riders like even though it's not the biggest place in the world or, like, filling a a soccer stadium. 

(11:28) But dressage is about elegance, and it's about style, and it's about harmony and beauty. 

(11:35) And so for me, this was the right place. 

(11:38) And, of course, Virginia and Ian and also with Etienne, they have been practicing, and they have been putting so much effort and work and heart into it so that I was quite sure this could work out being beautiful. 

(11:57) And, I mean, it has everything you need with this with that arena, the huge arena and the private arena and outside, so we discussed that. 

(12:07) And I told then also well, I had Isabell then coming in in '24 after the Olympics. 

(12:16) Also, she took it a little bit as a bit as a holiday as well because we could stay in the beautiful hotel. 

(12:23) And so we really enjoyed it. 

(12:25) And, also, the weather was great, and everything was great, so that helps as well. 

(12:30) But I had also Ronan Murphy to come and see it, and Rafael gave some input, and I gave some input because we didn't have a Samorin.

(12:42) And then let's let's go. 

(12:44) Let's go and try. 

(12:46) And yeah. 

(12:47) So we we were all very happy about it. 

(12:50) So I haven't heard anybody else saying, this is about because there were also many riders that haven't been there before. 

(12:58) We had okay. 

(13:00) Isabell and Freddie were there before. 

(13:01) Ingrid has never been there, and Katharina has never been there, and also many other riders. 

(13:06) And they were surprised in a positive way there. 

(13:10) And right away, after the first day, after arrival and everything, say, wow. 

(13:14) This is it's beautiful. 

(13:17) This can be really nice, and and it was really nice. 

(13:20) Yeah. 

(13:20) I remember that day. 

(13:22) I think it was on the Sunday of the twenty twenty four CDI where there was 20. 

(13:28) The first mention and the sort of the seed was planted that Jiva could could make a bid for them to happen. 

(13:35) At that moment, I personally went into stress mode. 

(13:38) We had never hosted Europeans. 

(13:40) Actually, France had never hosted, European championship. 

(13:45) And and we had to estimate how many people would come. 

(13:48) And what really helped Jiva was the communication of the riders, talking positively about about Jose, about Jiva, and sharing our content on social media. 

(14:00) And and, yes, it it wasn't huge, but all the seats were filled on especially on Friday and Sunday. 

(14:08) And and that that spirit during the the championship was was really positive. 

(14:14) And and then, of course, on those first few days, there's the the team event. 

(14:20) I know it's important for you, that team first aspect. 

(14:24) How did you live those those first day and that first of of three competition at Jiva for the team event? 

(14:32) Well, yeah, I mean, for us, this is what I learned right from the beginning when I was still a junior rider that the team medal is the most important. 

(14:40) So whatever happens, everyone can feel very special, but team first. 

(14:46) So always. 

(14:48) And so this is in my blood, I guess. 

(14:50) And, also, Isabell knows that that she she learned that the same way. 

(14:55) So it's team first. 

(14:57) And it didn't start so well in our from Ingrid, Varun, he was very spooky that day. 

(15:03) And so that really didn't start so great. 

(15:08) And then, Katerina, of course, she absolutely fulfilled the team place, and she absolutely I mean, she was really strong in the team, not just not being shy. 

(15:23) I'm the youngest. 

(15:23) It's the first time she was really she's really strong, mentally strong, and knowing what she's doing. 

(15:30) And I was really, I mean, really very, very positively how can I say? 

(15:38) So not surprised. 

(15:39) I know that she could do it, but to do it there on on the team for the first time and she's I mean, she's young, but she's not a kid anymore. 

(15:48) But that was what was my hope. 

(15:51) My I wished for it that she could really compete that way and that she's really that strong. 

(15:57) And she'd whatever she does or with whatever result she comes out of the test, I know she's done the best she could do and the best with the horse on that day with with whatever horse. 

(16:11) And so this is the the best possible. 

(16:13) And she always decides for the horse. 

(16:15) Also, in the competition, she she goes for the best and but she also decides, okay. 

(16:21) I cannot take that risk, but I have to be careful there and after this. 

(16:24) So this is mentally very, very strong. 

(16:27) And, also, her riding techniques are classical. 

(16:33) And so she's she's quick in her mind, and she's also quick in acting, reacting what she can do, what she can ask of a horse. 

(16:41) And that was fantastic to have her on the team because after it started not well with Veyron, not Ingrid's fault, but the horse is a horse. 

(16:51) So these things happen, and then it was fantastic with Katarin that she performed that the way she did. 

(16:58) And also in the Grand Prix, first class stop. 

(17:03) So from then on, I was more confident that it could work out after her ride. 

(17:09) And that's okay. 

(17:10) Second day went very well for us. 

(17:13) And Wendy, at the end of the test, of course, there was still a little hiccup, but still better than the others. 

(17:22) So it was it was a great competition, but that's it's good when it's competition. 

(17:28) It's good when it's competition, and it's good when we win in the end. 

(17:32) And then in the Grand Prix special, the competition was really, really impressive. 

(17:39) I mean, even for somebody who's not who doesn't know much about dressage, it was just beautiful to witness that the dynamic between the writers and and, obviously, that fight for first place for the gold medal, strong competition, and and especially between, Catherine Lautrecoup Four and and Justin Verbumin, of course, and Isabell. 

(18:02) Can you tell us a little bit about about those writers and their styles and and also maybe about the that amazing spirit on the podium where you see that Isabell would have liked to win, and she's a bit upset. 

(18:16) But then once the champagne is popped, then it's there's enormous respect and fair play and and and such a great spirit. 

(18:24) Yeah. 

(18:24) That's competition. 

(18:26) I mean, in in the arena, of course, everyone is fighting for the top spot and for to win. 

(18:32) Otherwise, it's no competition. 

(18:35) But, of course, afterwards, it's if somebody's better, somebody's better. 

(18:39) That's that's the way it goes. 

(18:41) And it was close, but still, that's the way it goes. 

(18:45) But everyone is happy, and and everyone respects the what the competition and and the presentation or the performance of the other ones. 

(18:54) Then also you have three fantastic horses there on the podium, but everyone different, completely different. 

(19:04) And that's what makes it really interesting as well. 

(19:07) Is it different in style, different in approach? 

(19:12) Everything. 

(19:13) I mean, of course, Sonic, he's a stallion, but he's very elegant. 

(19:20) He's very fine. 

(19:21) He's very light. 

(19:22) He's very sensitive, and he's, yeah, super soft. 

(19:29) You can hardly hear him when he moves, and everything is so soft and elastic and supple. 

(19:36) And Justin is riding with very, very fine aids, very classical, and the horse is always in a beautiful frame and looks great. 

(19:45) He has a great look. 

(19:47) And then Catherine and Freestyle is is, again, is different. 

(19:51) Everything is is very supple, very, very soft, a little bit slow, but still expressive, and, like, it's a bit like a cat moving. 

(20:03) It's so soft and and, yeah, also elastic, but in a different way than it's a mare, and she's freestyle is a mare. 

(20:14) She's she's moving different than it's only plus. 

(20:17) And then comes Wendy. 

(20:18) She's two hands higher and stronger and powerful and still sensitive, and but it's it's a lot of power to manage as well. 

(20:29) So that takes another effort than riding and also Wendy is still a young Grand Prix horse, but you have the very young one who's already, well, close to perfect. 

(20:45) And then you have freestyle who's a little bit more experienced and and older, but also she had a break. 

(20:51) I mean, coming from one rider to the other, she had a break. 

(20:55) And then now she looks completely different than what she looked like in 2018, 2019. 

(21:01) It's completely different, but beautiful. 

(21:04) And then you have Wendy who also had coming from a different rider, and everything is powerful and big and expressive. 

(21:10) And that needs to be fine tuned as well to be without mistakes and to look easy. 

(21:17) And so that's, yeah, that's what we're striving for. 

(21:20) So there's there's these differences, but then there's also, you you mentioned classical training, and perhaps the importance of of the horse and and maybe the horse dictating the training rather than the other way around. 

(21:35) No. 

(21:35) It it all comes together then. 

(21:37) I mean, it it should be seen in the performance. 

(21:41) I mean, they're all riding according to our classical principles because, actually, no other way works or that's the way it works because it's it's about physics. 

(21:52) A horse has four legs, a head, and a tail. 

(21:54) So the the principles the physical principles never change. 

(21:59) Of course, you find different approaches, what kind of training every horse needs and so because they're different. 

(22:08) But still, the principles don't change, and this is what the judges are looking for as well. 

(22:13) You have some some criteria according to our training scale. 

(22:18) So it's about the rhythm. 

(22:19) It's about the looseness, as we call it, the suppleness, and it's about the contact. 

(22:25) It's about balance and collection. 

(22:28) And so until everything comes together for every horse, it's a long way. 

(22:32) It's a lot of training. 

(22:34) It's a long way. 

(22:36) And some horses horses need different approaches and in different phases of their development and of their education. 

(22:45) They need you have to every day, you can have a plan what you wanna do with your horse. 

(22:50) As soon as you sit on the horse, this plan is gone. 

(22:54) You have the horse has another plan. 

(22:56) And so you have to adjust every day. 

(22:58) And every time you're training, you can say, okay. 

(23:01) Today, it's only thirty minutes light work because yesterday, was throwing the horse at light work. 

(23:08) Come on. 

(23:08) Let's go. 

(23:09) I wanna do a little more. 

(23:11) I want to do more of this. 

(23:12) I want to do I need more of that. 

(23:14) And so you have to adjust your training every day to what the horse wants you to do. 

(23:23) And that doesn't mean that you have to have you want to have the same result every day, but both of you have to agree with what you're doing so the horse goes back to the stable in a in a good mood and says, okay. 

(23:35) That was that was good. 

(23:36) I've learned something. 

(23:37) They want to learn, and they want to do something, and they they love it. 

(23:42) Then you have to keep them happy, but sometimes you have to be stronger. 

(23:46) It's like kids in in school and you can't hey. 

(23:49) Shut up now. 

(23:51) You're not it's not your time now. 

(23:53) Somebody else is talking. 

(23:54) You know? 

(23:55) This is also makes it interesting, and but you have to find always a positive way. 

(24:04) Jiva Talk is presented to you by Jiva Hill Events. 

(24:07) Jiva Hill Events is located in the beautiful Jiva Hill Resort 10-15 Minutes away from Geneva on the footsteps of the Jura Mountain with a magnificent view of the majestic Mont Blanc. 

(24:18) Thanks to our network of experienced partners, we help you design a unique event from staging to entertainment. 

(24:25) So I work at Jiva Hills Stables and Events. 

(24:28) So, obviously, my opinion is biased, but but, really, it's a it's a fantastic place with a huge indoor arena that can easily be transformed into an event hall for up to 800 or a thousand guests. 

(24:41) There's an outdoor terrace allowing table service for a 150 guests in the summer or 100 guests in the off season. 

(24:48) If you're interested in knowing more and finding out how you can host an event at Jiva Hills Stables and Events, head to our website at jivahillstables.com

(24:59) Guests Andre Languil and the Jiva Hill events team will be more than happy to answer all of your questions. 

(25:05) In the meantime, you can enjoy the last few minutes of our Jiva Talk with Monica Theodorescu. 

(25:16) So I I have two more questions. 

(25:19) One about Isabell Werthe. 

(25:21) To you, what makes her the legend that she is? 

(25:26) Well, first of all, I think it's her love for horses. 

(25:30) It's her empathy for horses and for training horses and to work with horses. 

(25:35) And that's that's the basis. 

(25:38) That's her her base. 

(25:40) Absolutely. 

(25:41) And she loves to do that every day. 

(25:43) And with new horses and younger horses or whatever. 

(25:48) That's her her base. 

(25:49) But she's a competitor. 

(25:53) She's absolutely, she's a 100% competitor. 

(25:57) And, yeah, she loves to perform and to the the competition or the then the test is also the result or the acknowledgment of her work. 

(26:12) That's what you you want to con a confirmation of your work, and that's the competition. 

(26:18) And it never stops. 

(26:20) And she won today as well, but no. 

(26:23) This was no. 

(26:24) No. 

(26:25) Come we have to keep working because I want the confirmation for the you know? 

(26:30) It needs to be confirmed, and then we see who is best. 

(26:34) Yeah. 

(26:34) And she she loves to compete. 

(26:36) I mean, this is the well, she's a 200% competitor. 

(26:40) She wants to this confirmation that she's done right, and then she's that that she's improving or she improved this horse. 

(26:49) She improved herself again, and she keeps improving herself all the time. 

(26:54) And so she's still hungry. 

(26:59) It's great. 

(26:59) Yeah. 

(27:00) It is great. 

(27:00) It is great. 

(27:01) It's it's it's great. 

(27:03) It's an honor for me to work with her to to be part of it and because, I mean, we've been I've been there from the start. 

(27:12) And it's, yeah. 

(27:14) We are both still there, me in a different function, but still it's, yeah. 

(27:20) She's still hungry, and I will not stop her. 

(27:24) For sure not. 

(27:25) So I have another question, that I ask everybody. 

(27:28) And if you had to use three words to describe dressage, what would be those those three words? 

(27:35) Oh, three words. 

(27:38) Wow. 

(27:39) That's not an easy one. 

(27:40) Well, of course, harmony. 

(27:45) Of course, harmony, lightness, and, yeah, the love for horse or the you know, I had a feeling once and or not just once, but in when a test goes well or when you have an improvement from last time or when you on on an important competition and you have a great test, this is this feeling to be one with your horse, that is not judges don't feel it. 

(28:18) Audience doesn't feel it. 

(28:19) Even the trainer or the parent or whoever, that's just the horse and myself. 

(28:25) And that is something unique. 

(28:27) And if you get to that point, it's a few times in your life, maybe, maybe not, maybe yes, That's wonderful. 

(28:37) That's absolutely wonderful. 

(28:39) So it could be bond? 

(28:41) Yeah. 

(28:41) Of course, the bond. 

(28:43) Yeah. 

(28:44) That's that's probably that's even I mean, that's it. 

(28:47) It's one word is enough. 

(28:50) That's yeah. 

(28:51) You gave me the word. 

(28:53) Thanks a lot. 

(28:53) That's that's just that's about it. 

(28:56) Yeah. 

(28:57) Thank you so much. 

(28:58) And and, actually, I have one last question. 

(29:02) So this year, in 2026 at Jiva, there there will be a CDI four star. 

(29:07) Will you come back? 

(29:09) I hope so. 

(29:10) I mean, it depends a bit who's going, and, I would love to come back. 

(29:15) I would love to come back. 

(29:16) And, actually, maybe I should already book my room. 

(29:23) We wish to to thank Monica for for her time and generosity and and, authenticity and just sharing a lot about her passion for the sport. 

(29:35) And we look forward to sharing more diva talk episodes with you. 

(29:39) We have many lined up with Patrik Kittel, Diana Porsche, many riders, and also dressage experts and and the people who who work behind the scene, at Jiva. 

(29:51) If you have any questions, feel free to drop us a line on on Instagram. 

(29:55) And, if you're interested in in booking an event, visit jivahillstables.com, or you can write to us at info@jivahillstables.com

(30:06) And, of course, the the next big event at Jiva Hill Stables will be a CDI4* competition, which will start on Friday, June 26 up to June 28. 

(30:18) There will be, of course, the the CDI four star event, but also young horses, different activities planned, during the the day and, Saturday evening. 

(30:29) Ticketing is open on our website. 

(30:31) And if you're interested in a in a VIP experience, we have a beautiful hospitality terrace, catered by our wonderful chefs, Emmanuel Olivier and Lionel Pimenta. 

(30:43) You can find all the information on our website. 

(30:45) And, if you're interested in sponsoring the events or being an exhibitor, contact us at info@jivahillstables.com or check out our website. 

(30:55) So stay tuned. 

(30:56) Thanks for listening, and this was Jiva Talk.