Kailum Richardson - Rockstar Dancer

When all you dream about is dancing at the age of 8, but trying to handle being bullied constantly, being pulled from school, wreaking your UK career before it's even started, how can you continue to carry on?

It's a good job that Kailum had the tenacity and strength to follow his dreams, because today, he is part of an exciting dance Camp in America. What makes him special; he's the only white boy in the Camp. A testament to his skill.

He is living a Rockstar Lifestyle state side.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Backstage Got, the podcast where we dive into the entertainment world. Not just the red carpets and glitter, but the panic, the tears, the questionable career choices, and the what are the thinking moments to do. We're talking to real people with real dreams. Surviving the highs, the lows, and the critical identity crisis along the way. Grab your popcorn, it's gonna be fun. Today we talk to Kaylin Richardson, the boy from Newark, he's made good. He's made very good across the pond. In LA, he lives and he lives a rock star lifestyle. What does that mean? Today we're gonna find out.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hey guys, I'm Kaylin Richardson and I'm a dancer from Newark and I'm on Steve's podcast. You're on the backstage gloss, that's me, on the backstage gloss. Backstage boys on the backstage gloss. Yeah, really, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I'm on the man, I'm um I am I can't tell you, I'm over the moon. Um I've watched you since you were a kid, haven't I? Uh well eight eight years old. Because I remember coming round here, working on a film. Yep. You, Colby, and Elliot, weren't you? The thing you know, can you remember it?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So long ago. Well it was acting we acted in it. That's what you also did the moves, and we danced at the end of it. I remember that, and I remember one of us landed on our neck outside.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

And I look, we had some good time. I mean, the thing with it, you know, the this whole industry, this dance industry and everything else. You had a dream, didn't you? Yeah, take us on that journey, you know, way from way back.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Okay. You know, when you were living. Well, obviously, it started at eight. I was eight years old. Um, I just remember watching Step Up. Love that movie, Stomp the Yard, all these movies that would come out, Britain's Got Talent with Diversity. Um, and that kind of initially started the want-to dance. Obviously, at first I didn't I didn't think it was cool. I was like, Oh, I'm a boy, I'm dancing. Like, everyone assumes it's ballet. It's clearly not the route I wanted to go down. Um, but yeah, watching diversity and stuff like that, that's what really got me going. And then, you know, it started off in the living room just moving. I guess it wouldn't you wouldn't really say it was dancing, it I just thought I would look cool doing what I was doing. Uh nothing really serious, and then I went to AJ's Amy's school, and that's what really got me going. That's when my routine was found. Like I would go every week, I'd be in every class possible, whether it be the hip hop classes or if it would be the gymnastics classes to work on the tricks, um, and then that would translate to you know family parties, I'd do all the school talent shows, win all the school talent shows.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

I think you're talking about that because you know what? Can you remember when you did Pentug? Ah, I do, uh but we also had a talent show, yeah. And I found I found the um I think it was Robin Hood. Right, I bet there's so many clips, didn't they? There is a few guys, yeah. But you were only like little dinky dots, weren't you? Uh you didn't have any growth spurts or anything. We were not when we were tiny.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

No, you were all three of us were.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

But what was what was I mean, looking at you now? I mean, you know, you got stardom out there, I mean, you're dancing on the big international stages with all the big celebs and all that. Way back then, what what did you think as a child that you could achieve?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

If I'm being honest, at the time I didn't really think I could get to where I am now. I was unaware of that even being a career path. All I knew is that I loved to dance. I didn't know where that was going to take me. It wasn't until really I hit you know 15, 16 when I was transitioning to go to college, um, where it was like, oh, it's actually a profession, and then that's when I would see, you know, all these dancers that I'd be working alongside now, I'd be looking up at them and I'm like, oh, I want to do that one day. There's a guy called um Cody Wiggins, um, really good friend of mine now, but at the time, being a kid, I was you know, unaware he's in the movie Stomp the Ard. And as a kid growing up, that's one of the movies that made me want to dance. And it's like you fast forward so many years later and you're in the rooms with these people, and you're just you're just mind-blown by it, it doesn't seem real. And then then it clocks, it's like, oh, all this time when I was younger and I'm looking at these things, that's the career that I didn't know that I wanted. Like it's shaped to the career I have now, mentally. So I think, like you say, when I'm younger, it's not really a oh, I want to go dance behind an artist. I want to, you just want to be what you're looking at, you know. Um, but yeah, obviously I went to college and I trained there for five years. Where did you go? I went to Attic Dance Academy in Norway. How did that work out? Um it's funny because I I was when I was younger, I feel like I was quite a timid lad, especially when it comes to all the dance stuff. Like, I'm I'm kind of the same now, if I'm being honest. Like, I don't like to try new things if I'm on my own, and it was the same with that. It was like my cousin he was gonna go to a random college to study dance, but it wasn't a professional dance college. And someone that trained me, his name was Tywell from Nottingham. Um, he mentioned that his friend taught at a professional dance college, yeah, and his missus got in touch with my mum and was like, Oh, why don't Caleb try this college? It's really good, especially if he wants to pursue it professionally. This should be the route he should take. So we're looking into it, and I'm like, I don't know, it's maybe I just go where my cousin's going for the comfortability, you know. Right, it's just easier, it's not as much stress on me. And my mum's like, Well, maybe we should have a look. And then I managed to convince my cousin to come with me. Funny enough, my mum got a parking ticket taking us to the uh to the audition. I remember that clear as day. And we get there, and at the time it's you know what I was thinking when I was younger. I'm a boy, you boys don't dance. I get there, and I'm me and my cousin were the only two straight boys at the college that are auditioning. Yeah, and it's like, well, this is really shaping what I thought when I was younger, yeah, right. And it's just girls and me and my cousin, and it's like, oh, am I really gonna do this? And I remember doing the audition, I walked into the ballet round and I walked in in some Timberland boots, didn't know I was supposed to take my shoes off. Oh no, stood at the bar ready to go, and the principal he was like, Okay, I think you should um, you know, take your boots off. And I was like, Why? He's like, Well, it's ballet, and I'm looking around and seeing them all in the tights and I'm in my baggies. I'm going, Oh, here we go, take them off, and then you know, do the audition, and I feel like I killed the audition. And wait, wait, wait. You actually killed the audition, even though you were. Oh my gosh, man. And to be honest, it it exposed to me what I you know, ballet could have been a potential thing because my point had a perfect ballet point before I'd even had any training. Are you serious? My arching me foots like crisp. Um, so if anything, it's fate that I felt. It felt like I should have gone there, and obviously, you know, turn around I did and spent five years there and created all the best memories possible, trained really hard in every style. Wow, you know, ballet, tap, jazz, hip-hop, contemporary.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Um well, let's just hold it there because I mean what I find interesting about the dance world is like you say, there's such a plethora of different styles. How did you know what you wanted to do, or was it a case that you just went, ah do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I'm gonna do them all. Um, I think it was to be honest before I even went to the college. Again, I didn't want to do ballet because you know it has the stereotype against it, and being a young kid, it's you know, oh, it's it's gay, it's you know, it's this, and obviously as a straight male, I just didn't at the time I didn't want that. Yeah um and yeah, it was just classed as girly, and again, as a young kid, you don't want to be doing girly stuff when you're a you're a lad. Um, so it was more so the hip-hop, you know. Again, looking at all the the movies I used to watch, I knew that was the style I wanted to do. And obviously, when I got to the college and they told me, no, it's every style, that's what actually was like, okay, maybe I don't go to the college because I just want to do what I do, right? And then obviously in hindsight, it's I needed all these other styles to become who I am today because I I implement them in every room I walk into in the industry as it is. Yeah, um, and like I say, I've learned things from each style that I apply to my own today, you know. Yeah, um, whether it be the core from ballet, when I'm on stage, I'm my core's constantly engaged no matter what, you know, whether it be fitness as well, yeah. You know, with all jazz, with all the leaps and stuff, it requires muscle memory, and I implement that into my gym life. It's you know, everything comes in together. Tap comes in with the footwork. A lot of the jobs, it's quick footwork. Right. The taps help with that. Rhythms, yeah, it makes the job easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not just, you know, going into a room and I'm picking some steps up. It's okay, let me think. I remember all the rhythms I would learn in tap, and I'm noticing them be so similar in these other rooms, it becomes easier, and then you've got other people that aren't trained in that that are struggling, whereas second nature to me because I've had five years of the style, right? You know, that's how I've kind of combined them all together.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

So, I mean, when you're you know in those studios and you're dancing and everything else, I mean, what was actually going through your mind? I know you you're you're there to train and to learn, but you know, what visions did you have?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Well, at first during college, if I'm being honest, the first year I kind of wish I took it a bit more seriously. Again, it was in my head, I'm like, I'm at college, and I didn't realise how much college would impact me once I was in the industry. Oh wow, and luckily enough, I kind of grasped onto that quick. I realised who I was in the room with, whether it be my teachers at the college, and I found the connection very quick that these were the people that would hire me once I would leave. Whereas a lot of people didn't do that, and you know, people would be like, Oh, still in school. Right, right, right. Um, and I I took the approach of again, it's not advice, but it's like I made friends with the teachers because what I noticed, and it applies still today in the industry, people want to hire the friends, people want to have a good time. Who you know, innit? Yeah, it's who you know. Yeah, no one, if you're looked at as a student, they're always gonna look at you as like, oh, he's not ready, he's got more to learn. So from day one, obviously, again, give or take the first year, yeah, from that point on, because I picked it up quicker than everybody else. I was like, okay, no, these people are actually going to help me, so let me listen to everything they've got to say to me, yeah, and let me apply it quicker than everybody else, and then be you know the cheeky chap I am, and then make them like me even more. Next thing you know, genuine friendships were built, yeah. And you know, it's carried on throughout the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

You did have a cheekiness about you, didn't you? Oh, I yeah. I mean, and and I I'm not serious at all. No, but I put that down to you know, when you were young, because of your size, right? And for me, it was like I used to look at you, you know, doing your stuff and everything else, and you'd just be full of joy and everything else, and you'd think, oh, what a lovely guy, you know what I mean? Do you know what? He's working his socks off.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, which I won't lie, at times it that's it can be a weakness because people took that as a weakness, my kindness. Oh, still do today, but obviously, as you know, when I was younger, I was bullied, yeah, right. You know, yeah, I was bullied in every sense of the word, and that's just because I was different to everyone else. I was pursuing a career that isn't normal in a town like Newark, right? It's it's not normal. People are looking at me crazy. I've I've got people in my DMs today from Newark that I've not spoken to since I was younger. Oh, you're really killing it. But these are some of the kids that probably bullied me back in the day, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like at the time people don't realise what it is and what this in especially the industry I'm in, it's the rock star lifestyle. But when you're young, you just don't you don't look at it like that. But before we get to that rock style lifestyle, you're definitely rocky.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I know we'll get onto that about that. Let's just talk about this bullying, all right? Yeah, because I mean it it obviously affected you, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Massively, yeah, it affected me massively. It um I think that was the toughest part about it, it was a constant thought in my head. So no matter what I did, I would think back to that, I would question what I was doing, yeah. Yeah, and to be honest, it probably held me back. All of that. I I kind of put all my energy into being bullied and it just affected everything else around me, but then at the same time, it was a driving factor.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, so and I am always because uh back home, yeah, you you had a lot of studio at the back or something, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yes. So my uh my dad and my uncle built me a dance studio in my back garden. Yeah, that was the escape. As soon as I'd get into the garden, that's where all the magic could happen. It's crazy, yeah. It's yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

So, was it a case that you know you get bullied at at school, you come home, you'd probably be feeling down.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Dance it, uh I know it sounds cringy, but yeah, that's because dance it's an outlet as well. Yeah, that's why I loved it as well, because it was a way for me to force the the bad energy out of me. It would it's the release. Um, but yeah, I remember I'd be coming home from school, there'd be kids waiting for me to beat me up outside the gate. My my mum and dad would watch me get beat up because there's nothing they can do, and I'd find you know what I mean, and then they do what they can, but it's like when it's a bunch of kids, my best friend at the time he used to stick up for me like crazy. He was always there for me. But there was a time my dad even picked me up from school because I would be bullied that hard in a lesson, and the teachers wouldn't do anything, right? And I remember he said to the the headmaster, he was like, He ain't coming back, yeah. And he dragged me out of school, and I never went back, and I went to a new school. The bully followed me. Are you serious? Yeah, he then began, he went to the school I then moved to, and it all started all over again. And then obviously, you know, you graduate you graduate school and then you go to college, and then it's it's a whole different ball game, and that slept in the past because obviously, like I say, I moved out of the home my hometown, moved to Leicester at 16 and escaped it all. Yeah, it was definitely a hard time.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

But looking back, I mean what what would you say to a you know a kid that that wants to do exactly the same as you? Yeah, you know, wants to pursue this career, but is having his ass kicked every day. What would you say to him?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Um there's two things I'd probably say. The first thing is it's gonna get better, it'll get easier. You know what I mean? It all gets better in the end, everything works out the way it's supposed to. Yeah. Um if anything, that's a compliment to you. It shows you that you're doing something better than your life than they are, shows you you're further ahead than they will ever be. Um, but then also it's like use that as your motivation as your, you know, and use it to toughen your skin up because again, you get into this industry and it is like it's bullies, and that's what I'm noticing more, especially because I feel like I've conquered the industry in the UK, and obviously we'll talk about it later. Obviously, I'm in America now, but it's all the same, it's just higher ups, bullying down, and it's like a food chain. Yeah, yeah. So when when I was younger, I was just at the bottom of the food chain, and you know, eventually you grow and you it cycles over, you know, you you empower what's bullying you, but yeah, um it's the same when you got older. So I think just carry that through the rest of your life. It's like you can learn things from that, even though it sucks, you can still learn things from it, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Alright, so from college, yeah, you're there and you're pounding, you know, studios every day and everything. Just take us through what it's like to be in a college, you know, a dance college.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Um so you wake up at 8 a.m. You're at college for 8:30, um, you start off with ballet, you're in there for an hour and a half, you get a 15-minute break, you start jazz for an hour and a half, you go on lunch for an hour, you go into tap class for an hour and a half, you get a 15-minute break, you're into another class. Um you'll have maybe a 20-minute break, a free period where the other people are in the lesson, you jump into the fifth class of the day, you finish by seven, eight o'clock. Wow, you're and that's five days a week every day. It's intense on the body, right? Right for sure. So, what was your downtime then? What did you do with your day? Weekends. Yeah, what did you do? There was no dance, that was dance at the weekends, you know. It was but I I feel like to be successful at anything, you've got to be delusional, you've got to be obsessed with what you love, like obsessed with what you love doing, if that makes sense. You've got to you have to be deranged to the point where you you think anything is possible, you've got to be obsessed. So it's self-belief, isn't it? 100%, yeah. And I think that's not I think I know that's what I I am and I still am today. It's you you've got to keep that up, and again, like I was saying before, people look at college sometimes, oh, it's school, and you mess about. Whereas for me, it was go time. As soon as I figured it out, every lesson I was purposely working on something new that other people probably wasn't. I was constantly thinking, okay, how can I get better at this? How can I apply this to that? I was it was like mathematics in my head. I was it's very calculated. Wow, the way I use college. Yeah, yeah. And I again rebuilding the connections within the college, which most people didn't do. I was mathematic about that as well. I knew that this was going to get me here, I knew that was gonna help me get here. This person was gonna take me this place, this person was gonna connect to this person, yeah. It's it's puzzles. So within your college that you attended, yeah, you know, all your lecturers were industry standards that were really, and a lot of them was in the industry, which I then found I wanted to do, which was dance for artists. So, especially in those classes, and I I learned quick, people talk, you know, word of mouth, it's rapid. So even in college, it was the same in the industry, same in the Americas, it's everywhere. Like a friend speaking to a friend, oh yeah, he's a good dude. Boom, I'm on a job. Or, oh, I'm in college, I'm in ballet, ballet teachers, they're all having the meetings at lunch, they're talking about the students. Oh yeah, he's really good in this class. Oh, I think he'd be good at your stuff. Fast forward five months, I'm on a job with that person, and I'm still in college, you know. It that's how it works. And that happened. Oh, multiple times. I was working within my well, I went into acting in my first year of college, and I I landed a role on ITV, brief encounters, which was a lead role. Um, and that was in my first year, and then I decided I wanted to focus fully on dance because I felt like I was getting distracted. And once I quit that the second year of college, I I bought my first job.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

You remember it? Yes. My first job also ruined my career in the UK to start with. Whoa! Holy shit, ow! Uh, it was the Brit Awards. Um, and funny story, actually, the um the choreographer of the job actually worked at the college at the time. Again, this is something you won't expect. It was a TAP teacher. You wouldn't think she'd be doing these kind of jobs. What ended up happening? I got on the job and she ended up getting fired from the college because of it, because obviously my career, I I basically got blacklisted. Wow. Um, uh I went wrong on stage, completely wrong. I was at the front first job, and at the time I was 16, I thought I was indestructible. I'd worked so hard, you know. I I could go into a dance class, pick the steps up within seconds while everyone else is taking hours to get it. I was like, I'm on the top of the world. Get on the stage and I go completely wrong. Flame it. It was the worst. I was going wrong from the first second I stepped on stage and it just kept going down and down and down.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I don't mean to beat you up right to cause you any PTSD or traumatic stress, but let's go through it.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

This this one actually it really mentally scarred me in the dance world, though, as well. So this is this is why I think this will be good as well, because it you know, I I got through it. Um, but just to quickly get through it, I remember going wrong and she got fiber quick. All the dancers already knew the steps.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

I learned it in the tunnel just before I went on. Everyone else had a rehearsal but me. Why? How? I really don't know. Again, this is the industry. Curveboards, you know, you see people, oh, he's a student, this will be a good learning curve, maybe. Wow. Oh, he's good at picking up the choreography because all the teachers knew that. They knew how to quick, like pick things up like that. And obviously, I get on, and I remember before I went on, she was like, Oh, you're at the front, don't go wrong. No pressure. No pressure. Whole time I'm thinking, don't go wrong, don't go wrong. That's what made me go wrong. I'm crashing, and every agency in the UK was there watching. Everyone was like, Oh, who's this new kid? Who's this 16-year-old boy? D-da-da-da-da. And yeah, flamed. And I remember I'd then reach out to these agents and they would hold it, hold it against me. Oh, you're not ready. You you go wrong on jobs. Months would go by, oh, you're not ready. People they would put me to the final round to just then tell me I'm not ready because of this job. And then I remember Move It. This was like an event that would happen with the colleges. Yeah. Um, I got the lead role in Addict's Move It piece, and the choreographer was Ricky Jinks. And leading up to this, obviously, my mental had been completely destroyed because it was like I'd worked so hard to be in a career.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

And I finally got there quickly, yeah, and it was over before I even knew it. Um and I just remember Ricky even telling me, I was like, You've got to forget the past, you've got to move on, you human being. People make mistakes, and it's the same in the industry. People make mistakes, you're not superhuman, but at the time I thought I was. Yeah. And this piece came around, and again, I was leading, it was the first time I didn't make a mistake since because I noticed after that one mistake, just mistakes, after mistakes, I fell out of my routine with dance. It was like again, I could pick things up, but then that left me because I was constantly in my head, oh, I can't go wrong. And meeting the biggest choreographers in the world, as soon as I've gone wrong, Brian Freeman, he would tell me on the mic in front of thousands, don't go wrong, Caleb. And I would go wrong and they'd kick me out of the groove. And this is all adding up. And I'm like, oh my god, it just gets worse and worse. And then I did this move it piece, and it that's what built my confidence back up. And it was um, it was a musical dear Evan Hansen uh waving through the window, yeah. Yeah, yeah. One of my favourite musicals, to be honest, one of the only musicals I've ever watched. I know it's quite bad to say, but it's the only one I've ever watched. But obviously, that was a piece that got me through all of the stress with that job. And you know, there's other things like with my family that that resonates with as well. Um, so yeah, this this meant a lot to me. And then every year I would come back with that piece, they would do sequels of it, and I'd be the lead every year. And by the time the last one, it was my final year in college. Gotcha. I'd managed to get back onto the in the industry. It was maybe I didn't work for maybe a year after, year and a half after.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

And then I got finally back onto a job and I did the voice.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Um, and then from then my career just worked with Brian Freeman, did a movie for him, and it just kept going up and up from there.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

What you what are you oh my gosh, that's just me. I can't believe that they're actually saying before you started the dance, don't fucking mind games, yeah, yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And again, and I I'll sit by this, even at the point of my career I'm in now, you're still having them mind games thrown at you, whether it be last-minute changes or obviously we'll get into it as well. But like on a recent tour I did, there was somebody um late to rehearsal, and then I had to then learn his track there and then, and then perform it to the artist in 10 minutes' time. So then I have all that trauma from the first job come back to me, and the choreographer saying, Don't go wrong because the artist is here. So there's pressure, but I'd learnt from this. Some people will crumble again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this is where you know you learn from your mistakes, yeah. It's like I learned then, so now my mind is stronger, and I can you know get through their moments.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

But oh well, let's let's let's not go any further at the moment because we're on this, let's get this out of the way, it's done and dusted. I mean, how do you what is your coping mechanism then?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

It's funny, so I pretend a lot of the time because don't go wrong, it's normal. I I do still think about it, you know, and it's it's there's nothing more embarrassing, especially at this point, going wrong on stage, you know. So it's like it still is there, but I think it's it's like I still get nervous as well when I'm just about to go on stage, and I've been doing it for years. But yeah, but that's good, isn't it? I mean, yeah, it means you're still excited about it, and so it's probably a different kind of nerve, but yeah, I guess I mean I pretend, but also I I I believe in myself more now. Oh good, yeah, good, and I I know who I am now, right? And like you say, all these years through college, they're they were the years of building, you know, toughening the skin up and really figuring out who I am as a brand and who I am as a person, and I think that's how I cope with it now, it's because I I a hundred percent know who I am, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

It's interesting you say it because it's people would be going, Oh that's really clear uh cliche, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

No, but it's the truth, yeah. No, it's true, and as cringy as it sounds as well, it's the truth, especially in this in the dance industry. If you don't know who you are, you'll crumble.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Now, just explain to us then, right? You you just who you are, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

What does that actually mean? Um I mean, the best way I can I'm a rock star, that's the best way I can word it. Like I know as soon as I walk onto a state, and it's bad, but I I think the whole crowd's there for me. Mary Jane. No, it's me, yeah. And that's why I want people to hire me though, as well, because I want them to know that that's what they're about to get. Like, I I don't I've done a load of jobs where you know I blend, and but that's why my career in the UK wasn't as good as my American one is, because people here don't like that I don't blend. Strange, isn't it? It's very strange. You you're you're told to be a a robot and a a copy here, whereas in America you they want superstars, they want people that are on the level of the artist. Here you've got to be a backing dancer, and that's the difference. So you don't you don't over shadow, whereas over there they want someone that's gonna light up the stage just as much as the star. Yeah, I mean, and that's what um and that's why I moved.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah, I mean, I I mean I love the um the American way. I do, you know, yeah. Oh, completely. Uh you know, if they if they want to give you some information, they'll give it to you, you know, freely, gladly, you know, not an issue. Uh over here, I ain't telling you. You want to find it, you can find it yourself. Yeah, no one else, no one. No, no. So that's well cool. So when did you actually leave UK then?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I left uh July 5th, 2023.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Oh, that's implanted, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Oh yeah, I remember it like back then I'd never forget it. Yeah, how did you feel on that day? Uh leading up to the day, because obviously I I'd done my visa and I'd known three months prior. I was like, I I got approved for my visa, and obviously I was over the moon, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, and then it went back to normal. I was like, oh well, I'm going. And then you know, as the days it gets closer, I think it sinks in that I'm about to leave my mum and dad and my brother, and right. I think that was the hardest part. That's the only thing I miss, if I'm being honest, is my family. Right. And I think that's what people don't realise moving away, especially in this career, does you it's like you've got to sacrifice a lot, and I sacrifice my friends and my family, yeah, to not be stuck in one place, you know. This industry cycles again, like I was saying, yeah. So everything everything in life's a cycle, right? And it always comes back around, like even like you know, your clothes you wear like back then, they come back. Um it's like with the jobs, the cycle, you do the same thing over and over again. And for me, I'm not I can't live in the cycle. I want to break the cycle, I want to start a new one and you know keep going. Uh and I think that's what that was. It was me breaking the cycle, and it's like breaking what I'm used to. And again, like I said earlier, I don't like to do things on my own. It's you know, I'm quite timid when it comes to that stuff, I'd rather feel comfortable, right? And this is the first time I I got to really break out of comfort altogether because I moved on my own.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So let's let me just ask you how did you get from UK to USA? What happened? What why why? Yeah, why, how, how, how did it happen?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Um I visited LA while I was in college. Oh, right. So, this is another after my first year of college. During the training, you said what do I do on the weekends? What do you do after? Yeah, as soon as the summer holiday would come, everyone would go home to the families, whereas the next day I'd up on a plane and go to America. I'd visit LA. Oh my god. And I was I was 18 when I first went to LA, 17, 18, and I went for six weeks. So what did you have anybody to go to? Or how did it work? No, I I it's funny, my my gran, my mama, who's passed away, um, she she paid for my trip because she knew that's where I wanted to be. And she's like, if you've got a dream, K, you go do it. It's like because it's clearly not here. She's like, you go do what you gotta do. And I remember I went, spent six weeks there, and it just changed my perspective altogether. It was growing up, I were looking at the Chris Brands, the Michael Jackson. It's like I want to do that, I want to be the best of the best. And being in the UK, that's not possible. So I I went to America and I trained in the all these classes, all the Chris Brand dancers, I'd be in their classes. I would train with Michael Jackson's choreographer. Oh man, I would be around the people that are around these people. And you know, I made friends and came home the next year. I'd go back every summer, but I'd extend my trip every time. First was six weeks, then I went for two months, then I went for three months. Then, excuse me, then uh COVID hit. I wanted to move in 2020, in 2020. COVID hit and it all got put on a halt, put me back three years, fast forward to 2023, and then I finally moved. But I I knew from that first trip that's where I wanted to be. I went on a hike, I looked at the view and I said, This is crazy, isn't it? This is where it's all gonna happen. It's the dream, you know. Hollywood, it's where stars are made. And I believe it.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Did you did you stop and look at you say that view and then close your eyes and just take it in? You manifest it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

As soon as I was up there, I said, Oh my god. But that was the moment I knew I were gonna move. I was 17, I knew I was gonna live there. I said, I was on top of running canyon hike, and I'm looking at it, I said, Yeah, I got myself a padlock and I wrote a message on it and I stuck it on the gate. I said, I'm gonna be back here. Every year I'd get a new padlock, I'd put it on the gate, and my old one would still be there, it's still there till this day. All four of them, they're on the same lock. Amazing. Um, and I I dated them all, and then on my last trip was 2019. I uh I wrote on in a book on the wisdom tree hike, and I wrote, I'm gonna be in LA sooner than I think. I'm gonna leave the book here, I'll come back for it. Oh wow fast forward and um yeah I'm there and it's crazy self-belief, you know. You know you've got to believe, you've got to believe. You like again. I I thought it's delusional because you just don't think it's possible, right? Especially again, it's dance. When you say a dancer, you think income. What are you gonna earn money through dance? And again, like you can earn all right money in the UK, but when you get into America, it's different money. Look at that smile, he smiles, he just goes I love it, it's different money, especially but and then all these the American industry they think they're not getting paid much, but to me, I've come from this to that, I've made it. Wow, it's it's different, and then I think that's when the realisation kicks in that this is actually something that you can you know make a living off, and yeah, yeah, especially if you're smart with your money as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Well, it's not cheap to live there, is it now? No, it's definitely not cheap. I mean, I you know, over the 30 odd years that I've been going backwards and forwards, um, yeah, it's just gone through the roof.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

For a toilet paper, it's random.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah, your backside now, you can't have none this week. Yeah, yeah, can't afford it. Feed ourselves$40 a fucking roll. What?$40 SLA though, aren't they? Yeah, I know. You know, fuels, god knows what we got. Alright, let's get the let's get into you know your first job. Where did where and how did that first job come in? In America, in America now, yeah. Stateside.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

So I got there July 5th. Um, and it's crazy because a lot of people think I work straight away when it's it don't work like that. The they forget about your career in the UK, they don't care because you're on their turf now. All right. So you've got to prove to them why why should you take their job? You know, so I I would train again, being all the classes, and I didn't hit my first job maybe four months after I'd moved there. So obviously I was living off savings, yeah. Living on cat like sofa surf, like surfing. Um my first job was a music video for offset, and the choreographer Cody Wiggins, really good friend of mine, spoke about him earlier. Yeah, see how it started. I know it's meant to connect, and he ended up being my first job. Um yeah, me and three lads, four of us, and did a music video. It was Michael Jackson themed, it was based off of Thriller. Again, all the costume was from Michael and like from the wardrobe of Thriller, like the actual pieces. Um and yeah, that that it was quick, it was overnight. I got a phone call. Randomly said, Okay, you're available tonight. I said, Well for he went uh offset, wants you to come to a studio with us and learn these steps. I want to shoot a video tomorrow. I said, Okay, and obviously I'd just I've been signed with an agent, and usually agencies take your commission. And he said to me, He's like, Look, bro, what do you want to do? Do you want to keep all the money and just go direct through you, or would you want to give your agent a cut? And again, business minded, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna give my agency a cut. I've just got here. Fast forward as soon as this job finished, I got sent Adolby commercial through my agent, and I believe that's from good faith and looking out for them. You're not screwing anyone, are you? No, I'm not screwing no one. Um, and I ended up getting Adolby commercial, which brought me a big chunk of money in because that ended up being a three-part commercial. So I got three commercials for the prize I'm on. One of them was featuring J Lo. Oh, and that got usage for the whole time I've been in LA, three years. So I'm getting residual checks on that skill. Of course you are. Um, then the Dolby Movie Theatre commercial, that was one, and then there was one for a pair of headphones, the Dolby headphones. So it was a three-part, and that all just came from that first job. So that was four months without no work. I did offset, it was I did offset in October, then the commercials happened in November, and then December I went to my first ever audition in LA, and it was for a tour. It was for Daddy Yankee, and it was his like retirement tour, it was his farewell tour in Puerto Rico. I went to the audition, bearing in mind I've it's my first audition, I'm new in LA. I was the only one to book it from the audition. Only person. Everyone else had already been booked onto the job months prior. My jaw, my mouth is open, my jaw's on the table. Really? Only person, and I was the only white person as well. I mean, and then obviously, in the um in the industry, a lot of the artists I like to dance for are artists of culture, so whether it be Latino, black, yeah, and um I've just ended up in them spaces a lot of the time, which is great because that's what I wanted. Because I want I don't want to fit in to the norm, I want to be the anomaly, I want to you know stand out and it fit with my brand and where I want my career to go, yeah. So that that fit in with that, but I did that tour and that choreographer I'd actually seen within that four or five month span. I'd been going to his classes every other week. Ah, and every week I would notice he would put me from dancing with a lot of people to less people to solos to giving me scholarships at camps. Seriously, so I was noticing my you know my relationship form with him, and then cheeky chappy self, I then just started talking to him because a lot of people are scared to talk to poor Office, yeah, because of the hierarchy. Whereas I don't care, you know. I I I'll talk to a wall about God knows what, you know. So I went up and spoke to him, had a genuine conversation with him, and then went to this audition, and like I said, I was the only one that got it. Man, and that was for the whole of December, January. Then I then I came home. That was my first six months.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Crazy, isn't it? So let me let me just touch on this. You've gone out to LA, yeah. Uh one thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Did you have an agent to go to, or did you get your agent when you worked with two American choreographers in the UK, Calvert and Sarah, um, and they're Camila Cabello's choreographers. So I worked for Camilla one time, I did the concert for Ukraine with her, and I was one of two boys that was from the UK. The rest was American dancers.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

And obviously, I I spoke with the choreographers and I said, Look, I my dream's to move to LA. And he was like, Oh, well, we'll sign your visa. No way, just like that. Just like that. It was like the reason we've hired you is because one, we don't really hire just anyone, but it's like we only hire the people we think as stars. And he was like, and for you, we think everyone will love you, so we'll be happy to sign your papers. Wow. And what that consists of is a deal memo where they basically say we can provide work for three years of your stay, da da da. And at the time, these and still are very busy choreographers. So they signed, and obviously, through them I got the agent they work for. Right. Signed the papers, and then when I got to America, I just went and met them, and that was it. And that was that.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Yeah. What what do people going into the industry have to be careful of that? You know, with agents and everything else?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Um the contracts, really. You've got you've got to know what you're signing yourself because you're signing yourself away for things. So did you get yourself a lawyer or or who read through the contract? Uh no, I actually read through, I'm really good with contracts. I've I made sure when I was at college.

unknown 42:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

And obviously, with being in the UK industry, it you know, we we needed contracts anyway. But as a dancer, I just made sure I would always read the small prints, I would always make sure I'm getting my rights. Sometimes I would demand rights that aren't even in the contract and negotiate my own stuff. Like what? What would you what would you uh more pay? Like I'd be on higher rates than some people, or I would demand that we have physio for our bodies if it's on long duration jobs and things like that that they tend to leave out of contracts. But you they don't think it's important. Yeah, but you'd think, wouldn't you? Your dancers, you're your sports athletes. Yeah, our bodies are the most important thing. That's our that's how we make our money. And we're not going to get simple physio.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah, crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

That's a right, we should have that.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

No, good for you. So yeah, I'm just really good with contracts, and I made sure I did my homework on it all.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

And so that's something that that they need to take away from this, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yes, 100%, you know, reading go out the way to reading a lot of pages, but you've got to, you know, I mean you read it once, you can then skim through it, but then you you you see your red flags as you're going through it, you know. Right. So definitely something to take away for sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

So you got yourself into the industry, you've got yourself an agent, yeah. Yeah, things looking good. Yep. When did we really start to move?

SPEAKER_00 43:47

To be honest, it as soon as I did that first tour, because I was the newbie, and every other dancer on that tour were veterans or were dancers that have very, Very respected within the industry and have danced for the biggest names you can imagine. And I was the only one that everyone was like, wait, who's that? And again, because I'm a white boy, I stick out like a sore thumb. I stick out because everyone is no one's white. Yeah, right. And it's just the truth. And that's is I could probably name five five white dancers in in time that have done the biggest of the biggest jobs. Wow. So I'm I'm already in a small group of people. And I would definitely say it was Daddy Yankee where it started because I remember as soon as I did Daddy Yankee, I think I came off of that and then I went straight into all I've since I've been in America, I've just been on tours. I've been back-to-back tours. Really? So I did Daddy Yankee, and then from the first job music video, brought me offsets tour.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

So I did Daddy Yankee's tour into Offset's tour into Peso Pluma. He's the number one Latino Mexican artist in the world. Um he's actually on tour now as well. Um so I did that. So that's three. Then I went on to Mary J. Blige, which there's a funny story on that as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Tell us that now before you go any further.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Mary J. Blige. Um I remember I got the casting email through, and the choreographer obviously reached out to who he wanted to go. It was an open call audition. It was for black dancers only. And again, I'm really good friends with choreographer. I messaged him and I was like, hey mate, I know it says black dancers, clearly I'm not black. I said, any point you come in. I was transparent. I said, Do I waste my time? And it was like, mate, you never know. He said, Come through and he said, I've also not seen you in a while, so we'd love to see you dance. And that's another thing with this industry, you've always got to stay in the eye, right? You can't disappear and stay disappeared. You've got to, if you just you've got to re-comeback, you're on tour for six months, you've got to be straight back in these classes on social media in front of the eye all the time. Yeah, it's constant. Um, I said, Yeah, is any point in me coming? He goes, Yeah, come through. So I go to the audition, only white person in there, only one. You would think there'd be someone, nope, just me. And I'm looking around, I went, Well, this I already know already, this is ending. First round, I get cut, snipped. I was like, great. Go home, carry on with my life. Uh, I go home for Christmas. This was around a Christmas period because I finished the peso pluma tour in November. My third tour. I went home after the audition because December's quite quiet. Another thing with this industry, it gets quiet very quick, yeah, up and down. Um, so I go home and telling my mum about it, and she's like, Oh, well, you already knew. You know what I mean? It's not like you had a chance anyway. I'm like, Yeah, you're right. Go back and I get a phone call off the choreographer. He goes, Kay, you in town? I went, yeah, I just got back yesterday. I was like, You want to go for some food? He went, Oh, I can't, mate. I'm in rehearsals. He went, Are you free today? I went, yeah, what I was like, yeah, why? He was like, we need you in rehearsals. I said, what for? He said, Look, I'm not promising you anything. He was like, but um, you know, two of the dances aren't quite, you know, there. And I just want you to come in to like give him a boot up the arse, like, you know, to get them going.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

And I get there, and there's another lad who's another good friend of mine. He's not on the job as well. And we're both looking at each other, we're like, why are we here? We're doing it. Day one goes by, Corofa calls back, can you come back in? We go back in the creative director's there. Now the tour starts in five days, and I'm still not booked on this job. Oh, I'm just there, they're they're doing their thing. The creative director come up to me and she said, I just I want to tell you, you are undeniable. I said, Oh, thank you. And she's like, Yeah, you're you're coming back tomorrow, the day after. She said, You're being on this tour. I said, But the tour starts in six days or five days or whatever. And she was like, Yeah, we know. So I had to learn a 27 number tour in five days, and me and that lad talk the places of these two guys. Oh, they and here's me, I got caught first round. Didn't want and it's funny because Mary was watching a video and she she said to the cracker, she went, What's that? She's like, Who's that? And he was like, That's Caleb. He's like, Trust me. Fast forward, Mary loves me. Bless her, she's a sweetheart.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Mary, we love you.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Yes, we do. But ended up loving me, and it was like at first the vision was black, they wanted a black cast, but it's like sometimes things work out the way they're supposed to, you know. I wasn't supposed to book it there, and then it no, you know, it all it takes is for me to be in a room, and it's like, oh, we made a mistake, and that's okay. People make mistakes, yeah, you know. Thankfully, yeah, yeah. Give me the money.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Let me see the money, but because I mean, like, like you say, I mean, it America is in my mind still, you know, that you you earn good, you know, you work hard, you know, you're gonna you're gonna reap those benefits. Yes, for sure. What's been the big biggest benefit for you?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Um well, like I say, because I've there's so much, and because I've done it in such a short space of time, you know. I mean, I if it weren't for me working, I wouldn't have been able to pay my mum and dad's mortgage off. That was one of my biggest goals in life, and I managed to do that in you are a diamond, well done, man. Yeah, I've always wanted to do it, yeah. Um, obviously in the UK it was never possible, right? Um, but because I was on back-to-back tours, I thought, let me just be smart with my money and not be like again, back to when I was in college, let me not be like everyone else and throw my money away. Yeah, you know, I I put my money in the right places, and you know, in all the I've invested it in places, and the things I have bought are investments rather than flashy. Yeah, you know, some things are flashy wrong. Like I bought cars and what did you get? I bought a Camaro, did you get a bumblebee? Yeah, um, I bought a watch, but it's an investment. Yeah, yeah, right. What did you get? Rolex. You did get it, you got the Rolex. Oh, it's on the wrist. Yeah, um, and then uh yeah, obviously the my mum and dad's mortgage, that's the biggest thing. But obviously, next I want to buy a house. That's the goal next. Out there. Well, this thing I I'd like here and there, but it's just because I don't have any money here anymore, I don't think they'll allow me to you know get a mortgage in uh, I'll have to put more money down.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Which I guess is you need to have a look unless you know you know there is a way, but yeah, there's always a way, aren't there? But I'll probably I'll probably do both. How's it gonna work in America? I mean, yeah, yeah, right. You've got your visas here and you're going backwards and forwards and everything. Um how how long are you allowed to stay for anyway?

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Three years. Three years, three years at a time. So I've just the reason I'm home now is I'm renewing my visa for my second visa. Um but yeah, there's I mean it's like I say it's doable. I've just got to figure out you know the motion of it all, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Right, before we uh before we leave and wrap up, yeah, horror stories, horror stories. What's gone really badly wrong?

SPEAKER_00 51:50

It's not even recent, it was in the UK. I did jingle bell ball and I fell down a trapdoor midset, landed on the DJ desk that was being set up, six-foot drop, had to jump up, I jumped back up and into the choreography in an eight-cant, superstar. Um, but yeah, god that hurt. And that was at the start of the 40-minute set, it was for Anne Marie, and then fast forward a week, she then went and broke her ankle. I remember seeing that a week later.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

So I'd say that's a horror story. Um I'm trying to think everything since then's been quite because I again I feel like my trajectory is going up, and obviously, my main goal, I want to do Chris, Chris Brown. Yeah, um, I've done everything. Nah, done this, I've done Super Bowl, I've done it all, you know. Um again, yeah. Mary, I did Camila's tour, turned down two tours. That's a funny story, actually. Machine gun Kelly, I was meant to go on his tour, two suitcases packed day before rehearsal. Get a phone call, change of direction. I'm already in a different state waiting. They have to fly me back. This is what they don't tell you about the industry. Nothing's promised. Nothing is promised. That's 90 grand gone. It was a world tour over a year and a half, just gone like that within a day. So, what do you do? You pick yourself up, got back on the plane to LA moved on to the next. How long was it before you actually get your next job months? If I'm being honest, since that point, it's weird, it like say it comes in, you know, ups and downs, and it's like since I'd paid for my second visa, it's just been doing this. If I'm being honest, it's like you know, I I was booked on Machine Gun Kelly's tour, cancels, then I come back and it's like it's a dry spell. Then I did Jason, I got to the final Jason DeRulos tour, got told I was booked, then two weeks later chose to go a different route. Then I'm this tour that Peso is on tour again. I actually chose to turn this one down, but originally I weren't booked on that because he went for new people, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

And then he he realised, you know what, okay. We I want to use you, and then I was like, I'm actually gonna turn it down this time for a what if, but again, it's my dream, so it's like yeah, yeah, sometimes you've got to sacrifice, you know, this, and this is gonna come back tenfold always. And you know, is it all about money? No, no, it's of course it's not. The only reason I say that is just because of where I'm living, and obviously, I'll I have certain financial goals I want to hit, yeah, but like you say, it's I'll do it because I love it, I I do it for free. That's the thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Yeah, that's true passion, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I do it for free. It's just like you say, it's it is my job at the end of the day, yeah. You know, so how long do you reckon you can go for in the industry? Depends how long you look after your body. Like I know people that are in the 40s that are still doing it, but for me personally, I don't want to be doing it that long. I want to again, once I've done my last thing, I've got one more thing to do. Right. What is it? Tour with Chris Brown. Right, that's it. It's the the last thing I've got to do that I've not done. And as soon as I do that, I can move on. Does Chris know that? He doesn't know it personally, but his team know. And I again a lot of my friends are past Chris Brown dancers, and yeah, a lot of people that are in my corner that they know what I want, and they advise me to keep going for it.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

So that's interesting you say that. You know, you you've got your team. How supportive are people you know within the industry for you?

SPEAKER_00 55:48

Um you're just a number in this industry. Oh yeah. Yeah, you're a number, yeah. And that's again why I go back to knowing who you are 100%, because I know I can't be replaced. So if you want to replace me, that's your choice. It's like I'm clearly not right for what you want. Right, right. As soon as something is you actually understand it, yeah. It took me a while to understand it because again, I want to do everything, yeah. But I I'm I know who I am, I'm you they can't validate who I am.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

I can, you know, so it it's so positive, innit?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah, you've got to be positive.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

You know, I'm I'm sitting here and I'm looking and I'm seeing the little boy, you know, that that was really.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

I mean, I wouldn't have said this when I was little, would I? You would have never known that this is the thing, really. No, no, but like you say, you get chucked in the deep end a lot of the time, and you that's when you learn, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Yeah, one last thing before we we um knock off, yeah, and that is you mentioned your brother. Yeah. Now you guys were tight and probably still tight. Even best friend, yeah. Yeah, yeah, my little road's my best mate.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Did you ever think that he would follow you into the industry? Yes. He's he's destined for it just as much as I am. A hundred percent. That's the day I'm on the C, I've got to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

The pair of you actually like busted it.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Well, it's funny because obviously him and my cousin have worked jobs together. Oh, him and Elliot. Yeah. Oh right. But when I left, a month after I left, that's when Colby did his first job, and it was with the team I would work with here. So I probably probably would have been on it with him if I was here. It's just timing and yeah, and that's the key thing. Has he been out with you? Yeah, he's been to LA twice now, and everyone there loves him, choreographers, everyone. He's he's gonna do well. He's got a certain look about him now, hasn't he? Yeah, he's he gives me model vibes. I'd love for him to model as well, but um I think he's like I say, he's a lot of the time he can easily it's easily done, he's compared to me, because I'm his big brother, you know, and I I get it, but he's also his own person as well. And I think the second he finds out who he is as a human as well, that's when he'll he'll do that. And he's I mean, I've been gone three years now, so he's he's already building it for himself as it is. Oh man. Um, but we'll be we'll be doing something together one day. I know we will. Yeah, that's the dream. That's that's a dream. Obviously, Chris Brown, yeah. But if I'm on it with my little brother, yeah, that's that's me done.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Amazing. Look, we are we are very, very close uh to finishing on on the hour. It's been amazing talking to you. Feels like we've not covered everything. Well, this is not you know, I mean, um do you know there's not enough time in no we can do is let's just keep in contact with you, let's make this real. Keep in contact, yeah. I'm gonna come and see you. Yeah, I'm gonna come out and I'm gonna video you. I would love to. I'm serious. Yeah. Um, and then what we can do is let's meet up with your crew. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because you mentioned, yeah, very briefly, you know, you are the only white guy in a black crew.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

I wouldn't say I wouldn't say black. It was more, it's more so within so within the industry, there's camps, right? So like let's say Usher, they have their camp. Yeah, Chris Brown have their camp, uh, Christina Aguilera she has her camp. So you're in a camp? It's camps, and as a dancer, you you know you like you jump to in between them all, and a lot of the time because a lot of the artists in America are black artists, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the black rappers or yeah, the I don't know, Mexican or whatever, it's a lot of the time they want to use people from their own culture, and I also understand that it's like because you want to portray it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Portray who you are again, it goes back to the brand, that's their brand. Yeah, yeah. And I get it, and it's like I've been lucky enough to be in these camps, and obviously I'm just the only white person because I I don't know. I guess the way I dance ain't well, you've obviously got something that you know really resonates with them, isn't it? And that's what I've built my brand on. I I want to be in these spaces that I shouldn't necessarily be in. That's what makes me different, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Kind of I've got to say, man, we're at the time of what thank you. Oh, thanks. Oh, yeah, we finally made it happen. We got it. All the best with um all the dancing and everything, keeping contact.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

Yeah. Oh always here, always on the round. I'm I'm crap, I guess, on my phone, but hey I'm here. Take care of pictures.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

Being bullied, messing up big time on your first gig, wrecking your career in the UK, pursuing a career in the US, living a rock star lifestyle. I think we can say the boys made it. Up next is Ben Miller, the guy with a dream of becoming a prop maker for the film and TV world. Up next, take it.