Ben Millen Prop Maker to the Stars

Imagine being bullied because you are inquisitive, have a different take on things or maybe a little quirky. Well, that was Ben and all of them things.

You see, Ben, was always wanting to know how things worked. 

His obsession or passion, whatever you want to call it, led him to pursue his dream. He always wanted to work on making things.

He now works within the TV and Film Industry as a props maker and is pretty good at it, so much so, it landed him on the Ghostbusters Movie Team.

ben gives us an insight into the world of manufacturing for the 'Big Boys", but sometimes, things can get a little tedious.

Let's find out more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello and welcome to Backstage Ghost, the podcast where we dive into the entertainment world. Not just the red carpets and glitter, but the panic, the tears, the questionable career choices, and the what was the thinking moments too. We're talking to real people with real dreams, surviving the highs, the lows, and the occasional identity crisis along the way. So, grab your popcorn. This is gonna be fun. How long's it been since we met last?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Uh couple of years. I mean I've seen you around, obviously. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Because you did some work for us, didn't you, on uh on our pattern mars as a prop maker?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, I did some backdrops uh for the show, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

You did, it was a good show, wasn't it? Yeah, it was good. Yeah. Right, so let's let's get into it, yeah, because this is what they're that they want to know. What's your journey? How did you get into the prop making thing? Did you always want to do it as a kid or what?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Uh I always wanted to do um something in film and television. Uh when I was a kid, I always sort of wanted to do the special effects or the creature effects and stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Um what were your influences back then?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Um influences, well, it's any any sort of uh Jim Henson type stuff was always interesting, but any, you know, uh films with gadgets or props or anything like that in that sort of you know I was always interested in how things worked and uh the making of the of the productions. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Gee, but from from a from a kid's point of view, I get it, you know, inquisitive and everything else. Yeah. But you how old were you then?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, I've I've done artist stuff all my life, like as soon as I could draw, I've I've been drawing or making um, you know, anytime there's a school competition or whatever, I um you know made something and yeah, tried to make it really intricate and interesting sort of thing. And um, yeah, it was I've I've always made, I've always created, I've always uh tried to figure out how things work, you know. Often you know breaking a lot of my dad's stuff, trying to figure out how it worked.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

What you used to break it?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, yeah. Back in the days when you know TVs had buttons, I used to you know you pressed one button and the other button popped up, and I wanted to know how that worked, so I tried pushing down all the buttons at once and that broke the TV.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Um and the video player, the doors overlap like that, and I wanted to know what would happen if they overlap like that, and that broke the video player, you know. So I just I always wanted to know how things worked, how they went together, and um so yeah, I've always always been uh inquisitive and and and wanting to create I'm glad you weren't marking because other bearers are.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Yeah, thank you, Maggie. But where do you get where where does it come from? Is it dad's side, is it mum's side, or is it just totally random?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Probably a bit of both. But mum was uh the artist mainly. She always I sort of grew up with her making stuff out of um sort of uh polymer clay um and doing a lot of drawing. Um but yeah, my dad always encouraged the drawing and the artwork as well. So cool, cool, yeah. That was good.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

So are you you obviously went to normal school? When I say normal, comprehensive, or or what was it?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, yeah, uh local schools in Newark, so um Mount Madeline Magnus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

Oh you were you Oh right, so you went to the middle school?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Right, okay, yeah. I haven't heard the uh the Madeline or Magdalene uh mentioned for many, many years.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, it's gone. That wasn't it? Well, I think it's a different school there or something now, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Yeah, they've got all that. So what what was uh school like for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Er was alright. Um I was I was I was a bit of a weird kid, so uh I got yeah, I got uh medium amount of bullying, but uh yeah, and uh you know I was just always uh the slightly crazy one, sort of getting into trouble for doing weird stuff and whatnot. Like what? No, no, you've got to do this just because this is gonna be interesting. Oh, I don't know about this. Well yeah, it was like one time I I had a bit of a stomachache, so I told the teacher I was pregnant and uh and uh wouldn't give it up. I just stuck with it the whole time until I got thrown out of class and uh um yeah, just just other things like sticking things to the walls and whatnot, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Just um you you'd have been the kid I would have hated when I was teaching.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah, yeah. Or would I?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

I don't know, because I'm I'm I'm off the wall myself, so I'd probably be worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah. So I think I you know, I think I was I'm possibly a little bit or well, I think I have a little bit ADHD. Um, yeah, it's uh I was always wanting to keep busy, always wanting to do something, but I didn't have the patience for sitting down and like you know, maths and geography and things like that were hell to me. You know, I just couldn't stand it, wasn't interested. Whereas art and design technology love those lessons, although I still got in trouble in those ones as well for you know going off the rails so much, but uh but yeah, it was um yeah, school was interesting. I was glad to I was bad when it was over.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Did you yeah, yeah, no you see, the thing for me is what I can't understand is when I got into education, it was a bit like yourself, right? You know what you like, yeah. So I'm like, why don't they take an individual learning plan and develop everything around your likes instead of your dislikes because within your likes you build in the dislikes?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, well, I heard a heard a maths teacher saying the other day, well, I think mathematician saying there's in classes there's yeah, there's kids you can teach in-depth trigonometry to and all that kind of stuff because they they've got a passion for it and they might go on to do a career that uses it, but most kids won't use all this in-depth math learning, so you know why not tailor the lesson to them so they just need to know the basics for getting on in life and you know add more in other areas.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Um I agree. Great. It's not it's not science, is it?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

No. And also they should, I believe, I still believe they should teach life in school, you know, like what? Paying bills and and uh you know how to do finances and totally agree. Yeah, yeah, totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Because that was the P S H E, when it they used to have.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I don't know, but it's like you come out of school and suddenly you got all this stuff you've not been taught about and just like you've got to deal with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Yeah, did they teach you about contraception?

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Um I think basics, yeah. What? I don't I don't really did. I think you know the the girls had their sort of secret assemblies for obviously lady issues, but uh I don't think we really got told much. No, I think we had we had we had a couple of science lessons that we snickered through, but you know that was that was about it, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Bless.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Hey, saying them all. So what happened from school then? Where did you go then? So from school I went to uh Newark and Shower College to do an art course. Who was that with Peter? Yeah, uh Pete Chesney. Chesney, yeah. Um good lad he was. Yeah. Um so yeah, did it. Aaron was his missus, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, Karen was there as well. Um she appears later on in the story as well. Um but uh yeah, so I did did art for three years, loved it, but again, I think because of my yeah, because of my the way my brain works, I didn't really apply myself. So I did the bits I enjoyed, um, but putting together a nice portfolio at the end, I put together something that was okay, but probably not to a high standard. Um so when I started applying for universities, uh I didn't really get in, but also I didn't really know what I was applying for. I was I sort of went for design technology courses, product design courses, um, which wasn't really the area I wanted to go to, but I didn't really know what where to go or what to look for.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Um do you think they should have taught you or or had lessons based around you know more on more on the career side of things?

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Possibly. I think it's a hard thing for them to cover because obviously if you do art, it could take you in so many different directions, so many different areas. Um yeah, so you could go down design routes, you could go and work in magazines, you could go be an architect, you could um be an artist, you could work in media, there's there's so many different avenues to go down, so I think it'd be hard for them to cover it. Um I think some more positive uh reinforcement behind people's ideas would be good. Because I did say I was saying at the time that um I wanted to go into special effects, makeup and stuff like that. Um and the idea was poo-pooed a little bit, but um but yeah, so I applied for universities and uh unfortunately didn't get into any. Um so I thought, well, time to hit the real world. Um so yeah, started getting jobs. Um what were you doing? So pub work was my first one. Um from you know as soon as I was 18. Um so yeah, worked in pubs, I think, on and off for 10 years really. Um yeah, started at the Hobgoblin in Newark and when that first opened and went to various other places. Um then I sort of had a because I was interested in technology as well, because I know wanted to know how things work, um I on the side I sort of started buying broken mobile phones, repairing them and selling them on. Um and then Vodafone came to Newark, I think. Um uh so I went to apply for a job in their uh technical support department um because you know I wanted to have my hands on the latest phones and stuff like that. So uh got the job there, started doing customer support, um, and it was cool having the all the new phones to play with, but uh pretty quickly realised I hated customer support. Um why?

SPEAKER_03 10:38

What was wrong with customer support?

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Well the customers uh uh yeah, just you know uh dealing with angry people all day can be a bit demoralizing. Yeah, it was good when you solve problems of people and made them happy, it was great, but when you take call after call of people being angry and miserable with you, it's it's it's it gets a bit uh degrad well degrading and demeaning sort of thing. Um so yeah, I left that uh various things. Yeah, I went I went on to live in Sheffield for a bit, um I went back into customer support twice there, hated it both times. Um and uh yeah, then I uh came back to Newark Way and I got a job with uh P3 Charity. I don't know if you've heard of those. So they're people potential possibilities. So they're uh they were they did have their tech office based in Newark, um and so it's a charity that supports homeless and and and people with addictions, etc., and helping them get back on their feet. Um so I went to work for the tech technical department for them. Um so basically I was they've got services all over the country, and I was supporting um their services with laptops and phones and stuff like that. Um, and I ended up working for them for six years, I think it was. Um loved the job, great people, uh travelling all around the country, setting up new services, installing their equipment because it was hands-on, absolutely loved it. Um but then I got made a manager of the IT department and my boss left. And I hated it. I don't like managing people. I mean, I I don't like managing people uh most of the time. I don't like the the the stuff around that, you know, doing um what do you call it? Uh one-to-ones and and keeping on top of top of KPIs or whatever. Um so yeah, I got a bit bored. Um then I went on a date with someone and uh we were just chatting about uh what we what what we're doing with our lives, what we wanted to do with our lives. Um and I said that I wish I'd gone to university, but I was like, that it's too late now, you know, too old, got a kid. Um and they just said to me, Well, why is it too late? Like, you can you can go to university, there's nothing stopping you. And I was like How old were you? Uh 39, I think.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Oh, I was 36 when I went.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Um and I thought, yeah, actually. So I applied for Nottingham Trent University for their um design for film and television course because I needed something uh closest by because I've got yeah, I've got a kid and I I didn't want to be too far away. So that was the most relevant course I could see. Um and yeah, so did I got on the course. Um uh I didn't have the traditional entry requirements because I didn't have my GCSEs, I haven't got you know, I did terrible in school exams, um, but I sort of proved that I'd had a history of always creating and making and doing art and stuff, um, so they let me on the course. Um and yeah, again it was uh it was good. Um started the course, loved it. Um again I struggle with my problem of um following regiment it sort of uh things, so you know when it came to doing dissertations and and writing essays and stuff, that's that's not me. Um so it was a real chore to do that. How did you manage? Uh just a lot of my thing is I leave things till last minute, so if if if I don't like it, so it was a lot of staying up late, yeah, working through the night to get things done.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yeah, don't do that, children.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, don't do that. Um but I you know the bits I did enjoy I did pretty well in. Um and uh yeah, it was it was all going pretty good. Uh but then obviously uh COVID hit whilst we were on the course. Um so it became a sort of uh study from home course. Oh right. Yeah, we missed out on a few trips and our final exhibition was gonna be at Pinewood, but that got cancelled obviously. Um so yeah, sort of completed the course from home. Um and uh I got a reasonable uh result at the end of it. I think they might have been a bit generous because of COVID, but uh I got a reasonable result at the end. What did you get? I can't remember what it was what it was I got. I'm not very good with details, but 2-1. 2-1, yeah, I think it was a 2-1, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Well you you just offer first.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah, yeah, so um then uh yeah, so I just started I started looking for work. Um as a part of the course, they sort of help you get in touch with a few people. Um uh and I was just emailing everybody, uh, any any sort of contacts I could find, I I emailed them. Um you're supposed to pick up the phone. I'm not very good at picking up the phone, but I did a couple of times. Um and I managed to get a job on a uh production. Um sorry should go back a bit. Whilst I was at university, we did some work experience. Um so I worked on an animation um and I uh worked on a TV show, both didn't make it commercially successfully, but they were good to work on, good for the experience, working working with what were they like pilots? Yeah, yeah. So one was um uh sort of uh women's prison show, it was a bit and it was very cell block H if you remember that one. I do remember it was literally yeah, wobbly wall.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Hey, if you remember that and remember Tenko, oh my god, going back there.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

But uh but it was a great experience. That was in um that was Liverpool where I think it was, and um yeah, just working with some great people who always it was my first experience of the the film and television world, and everybody was super friendly, uh except for the people on set who are super busy and don't have time to be friendly sometimes, but uh that's fair enough because it is it can be a front tick environment. Um but uh yeah, so uh yeah, that was great. Uh after university applied for loads of stuff and then got uh I think what it was I actually I'm gonna have to put my C V to I forget the order of things let me get my thing out.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

He's brought it all with him, look. He's got it on.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Uh that's what I do first. Yeah, yeah, so first, oh that was it. I had a friend from university who knew I did 3D printing and and stuff like that. So they they were working on a period drama, and uh they wanted some details for the period drama, so some I think it was some uh bell pulls and doorknobs and things like that. Uh Georgian period. So um I designed those, printed them, sent them off to them, and uh they were really happy with them, asked for some more stuff, so I did that. And uh then they said, Well, do you want to come and do art department for a bit? And I was like, Yep, I'll be there. So that was in Leeds, and that was on a show called Confessions of Franny Langton. Um, and uh yeah, so I worked in the art department there for a couple of months, I think it was. Um that was great. Also, I got to draw up my first set, um, it was a very small set, it was like a bottle dungeon. Um and uh yeah, that was great. Um from there I started putting the feelers out again, got on to Stonehouse, which is uh uh drama about John Stonehouse, I think it was. He was an MP that um faked his death and ran off to Australia with his lover and was uh in touch with the Russians or something like that, checkers of vaccins or something. It was it was quite good. Um yeah, that was a great time as well, working in the art department again, um just uh designing sets, but all the time I sort of uh made myself as useful as possible because I wanted to go. Because that's the key, isn't it? Yeah, like you can't go into any of these jobs and just be in, I don't think, be in one lane and focus on one lane and not uh attempt to go to other areas. So, you know, if people say you you you have specific roles, but if people say, Oh, uh we need a prop for doing such and such, if you can do it, then have a go at doing it and offer to do it, you know. If if they they've got their own um design department normally, so they've got a person that will do graphics, etc. Graphics department, but you know, if you can do something, offer to do it, you know, you've gotta make yourself as flexible as possible. I've worked with people that sort of keep the head down, stick to their lane, and they don't really get remembered or get known. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

What's the point?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Um so yeah, I've sort of got on great with everybody I've worked with, and you know, I I think I've made myself pretty indispensable on most jobs I've worked on. Um so after um Stonehouse um I got on to Phoenix Rise, which is a C BBC drama. Um that was cool. We worked in an abandoned school, we took over an abandoned school, um, and uh we basically set up camp there literally because me and three other guys slept in our vans in the next to the workshop, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

What stopped slept in your vans?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, I put you know put a bed in the back and uh just lived lived in the van. Had a little we had we set up a little campsite.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

How long was you there for?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Um I think it was uh about six, eight months, eight months, yeah. Well one minute, how does that work with like your your your digs money and everything else? You don't get digs money. Um at that point I wasn't self-employed, so um I mean some jobs will offer to pay for accommodation, but mostly that's only for the upper echelons, um like the heads of department and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Man, I can't believe that.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, but you get paid a reasonable amount when you're doing it. Um I mean at that point I was still well I was a uh assistant art assistant, um, although they actually brought me up to assistant art director on that job, um, because again I made myself indispensable. I I did, I covered many areas.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Um common theme there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 21:44

With yourself, putting yourself out. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

And people really do need to do that, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, when I was on that job, my yeah, the the guy who took me on didn't know anything about me. Um he saw I could do some drawings, he was impressed with those drawings, the technical drawings. Um So I started just drawing up sets for them. He'd tell me what he wanted from a set. I'd design it, well, draw it up, ready for the uh chippies to build it. Um, but then he were like, Oh, we need it, we need this prop for this prop. And I'd say, Well, I can make that for you. He he even had a friend who was a prop maker, but um because I was in-house, I could get it done quicker most of the time. Some props went out to the to his friend.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Um, again with graphics, we had a um graphics department, um, which I won't talk about, but I I did some graphics as well. So um, you know, I covered whatever area I could because I'm a technical person as well. On that show, we had classrooms full of computers where we had like 20 computers.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And they all needed setting up and they all needed graphics on them, etc. So I organised getting those set up, getting the graphics on them. Um, and it went as well as you know, we needed scaffold inputting outside the building, so I got I called the scaffolders, you know, you organise whatever you do whatever you can. Um so that that went really well. It was great. I had a great time, met some great people, um, and then from there I saw that a new Ghostbusters film was being made, um, and I thought it was being made in the UK.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

So I let me just stop you here. Where did you see that?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

So there's a few um inside information places you can you can sort of get onto basically. Um so there's a few Facebook groups, um, I mean there's also IMDB, which is Internet Movie Database, um, which most people would just see as a review site, but you can just you you can sign up um to the pro level, you can put your own work on there, um, but also you can get contact details for people who are tied to a production, um, and also there's various industry insider newsletters that will which will tell you about what productions are starting up um and where they're starting up, um, and often have some contact information on. Um so in in this case, I don't remember quite where I sort of Ghostbusters. I think it was actually on a Ghostbusters news feed because going back a bit, I've been since the other new film, uh Ghostbusters Afterlife. Um I started making replica parts for the Proton packs um because they at they introduced a new feature. It was a feature that was alluded to in the original 80s films, but uh it was never seen. Um, and then in the Afterlife film, they actually showed the feature.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

What was it?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

So it was basically a power switch, um but there was two on the pack. Um so basically, when they did uh Guess What's Afterlife, the story is the prop makers accidentally put this power switch in the wrong location, um, so they added another power switch in the correct location, so you end up with two new features on Proton Packs.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Um so I made both of those power switches and have been selling those on Etsy since. Um I've also made Proton Packs as well. Um so when I saw this uh production was starting, I immediately needed to get somebody's information because I wanted to be on this. Um so I found um somebody who was working on it on IMDB. They were one of two names listed, and the only one that seemed sort of relevant. I didn't know what department they worked for, wasn't sure from the title that was down there. Um I just emailed them, said, I actually said in the email, I will give my left mandangle to get a job on this film. I uh you know, I will make tea, I will do anything on this film, I don't care what the job is, get me a can I have a job on this film. Um and he got back to me saying I'll get in touch with my boss and uh get back to you. Um and then yeah, soon after he says, Send me some pictures of what you've done, tell me tell me what you've done. So I sent photos of the Pro On Packs and my Etsy switches and uh various other things. And uh they said, Yep, you can start such and such date. I was like, great.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Uh but I that I realised at that point I didn't have a clue what I was doing, um, what the what the job was. So I just turned up in um it was at Reading um at Shinfield Studios, uh No wasn't we were some of it was at Shinfield, um but I turned up in Reading um, walked into the workshop and it's like, oh I'm a prop maker, nice. Um which is what I what I wanted to do. Um and uh yeah, and then the boss of the head of the department um called Ben Hall um came over to me and said, uh, right, you're on Team Proton Pack. So I I I was gonna be making the Proton Packs for the Ghostbusters.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

So uh yeah, um so I throughout that job I got to make hero proton packs for one of the main characters. Um uh I also got to be on set, which was brilliant. I got to see the firehouse, uh Christmas firehouse built in full scale. Um see the Ecto one driving driving around and uh meet all the old Ghostbusters as well because they were all there. Um and so I was a when I was on set I was a pack wrangler, so I was in charge of helping the actor get their proton pack on and off, but also fixing any problems with the proton packs because they were quite intricate, they had electronics inside them and various mechanisms in the in the gun part, the wand. Um so yeah, uh worked worked on that and it was brilliant. Um I don't know if I'm flying through too quickly here, but uh No, no, it's it's it's so interesting. Um yeah, had a great time again. Met amazing people, worked with amazing people um from so many different skill sets and backgrounds. Um and it that's the that's the one awesome thing about the job is everybody's got a passion for something and everybody um has their own set of skills and you can just share knowledge. Um if you don't know how to do something, somebody else will know how to do it, you know, and it it it it's great to help others and and also get help from others. It's just it it it's it's my perfect environment, it's my perfect job. Um, yeah I've I've never had a job that I wake up every morning just looking forward to going to work. Yeah, that would uh uh yeah, with with every job I've done in film and television um so far, um yeah, there's there's stresses and there's annoyances, but what are they though? Um well it's the same for art department and props, but probably the same for every department is is last minute stuff. So when I was in the art department, you'd have the director change their mind last minute, and the director for some reason doesn't seem to have a concept of how long things take to do. Right, right. So you know we'd get we'd send stuff out to get printed specially. Um for example, we had on one production a scene where it was a careers day and we had a hall full of lots of big banners, and uh we had a uh big standing vets poster with a cute dog on, and it said, you know, career in veterinary practice, etc. And we had to get these specially printed, took the graphics made up and sent out and go and collect them. And then on the day of shooting, the morning of shooting, the director goes, It'd be nice if that was a kitten instead of a dog.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Oh, you're kidding.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, and this is after the directors have previously approved the graphics as well. Oh no, and it wasn't a case of you can't go, yeah, but that takes too we can't do that. You just have to do it. So we were literally in the art room printing out and you know the kittens like this big. Yeah, we're this big, so we're uh in the huge, huge. So we're in the art room printing our kitten spread across loads of A4 sheets of paper, and then carefully cutting it out and sticking it over this dog to try and make it look good. No way, and we're hoping that the the the shot's gonna be fairly soft and there's gonna be no good focus on it because it it just doesn't look good. And the the annoying thing about that is that ultimately we look bad because of a last-minute decision by the director. They go people look at that and go, Oh, that looks a bit naff. You know, it's like why why have they done that for? Um so yeah, last-minute stuff like that. Um most recently I was asked to make a prop syringe, and I was handed a graphic this big with a concept art on it. So about two foot. Sure. Uh with with it with a concept with some concept art on it. And it was this syringe that was like super detailed, it had loads of weird features on it, etc. And uh, I was just told it needed the needle needed to be able to go in and out when the plunger go down, and uh I wasn't given any scale or anything like that. Um, which you normally you should if if you get asked to make something, you should get some scale measurements, you should get a technical drawing. But we didn't get that, and I was just asked to make it um and left to me in devices. So I sort of basing it on the drawing, figuring out the scale from the amount of detail that was on it, started building this syringe and I built it that big and I built it out of all sorts of parts. I mean, I I thought it was gonna I didn't know the context, I didn't have the context of the scene it was gonna be used in on it. I would just work into it.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

It was completely left in the dark, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

So I just work into the image and I made this cool sort of funky giant syringe, you know, like you could inseminate a cow with it, whatever. But I thought, you know, that maybe that's what they're doing with it, I don't know. Um and then you know, after days of work, you know, refining this thing, making it perfect, they come over and go, Oh, that's a bit that's a bit big, isn't it? And I was like, right. I was like, how big do you want it? Uh and they said, uh maybe maybe this big. Yeah. So I was like, right, I can't, yeah, I'm gonna have to scrap everything I've done and start again. Oh so I did it, started working on the next one, made it much smaller, had to get a lot of it, had to 3D print a lot of it rather than kitbash it, and um yeah, made it sort of that big. And then somebody came along and says, Can we just make it about that big? I was like a couple of inches bigger. Yeah, yeah. I'll admit at that point I left the room for a while and left my boss to talk to them. I was like, Yeah, I I need to walk away while you guys decide what you actually want before I spend days and days making things. Yeah. Um I I've got an example with me of something if you let's have a look, let's have a look. Um so I also asked to make this uh bomb plunger uh detonator.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Goodness me, look at that.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Um what's the materials? So this is uh I drew this up in on the computer and it it's 3D printed, that's steel tube welded. Yeah. Um inside there I've got two syringes to give you the sort of resistance of the push. Yeah. Um, yeah, so it's a mix, mix got metal bolts, etc. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Um so just a rectangular box.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, yeah, with some features. Details on, yeah. Um so when I originally got the picture for this, and now admittedly my mistake, I well, it wasn't quite my mistake. I I opened the file and on the computer, because the art department comes up with a concept as well. Um, and it was whatever size it was, and I started printing it, and it was twice the size of this. And Ross came over and went, That's a bit big. I was like, Well, yeah, it does seem a bit big, but that's what was on the and he said just double check the measurements. So I double checked them and I was like, Oh, actually it's this size. So I produced it in this size, and everybody was happy, and it went to set. Um and then again a couple of days before shooting, the director was like, That's too small. So even though it was concept past ticked. Yeah, all the art department were happy with it, it had been to paint, painted to look you know good. What's the material? So this is PLA plastic, it's 3D painting plastic, which I've got.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

It looks metal, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah. Uh yeah, sand it down and then paint do an awesome job of making it look as real as possible. Yeah, cool. Um yeah, so then when it they were like, well, the director was like, we need it twice as big. Um, so I had to make it again twice as big, and you know, they never want one, they want more multiples, so I had to make several, but it's just yeah, it it can be it can be frustrating when you when you spend a lot of time making stuff, but at the end of the day, I'm getting paid to make stuff, so so whose whose job would it have been to have done the initial investigation?

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Yeah, what when where and all this type of stuff?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Yeah, what I'm not the foot I'm not the best person for fully understanding the structures, but normally you'd have um the art director um or the production designer talking with the director, they'd be having meetings, yeah, discussing what size things should be. Um but also a lot of things can be on the fly as well. It'd be the director you know on set, thinking, right, I've got this, these shots coming up next week. Um we need this doing, this doing, or in next month. Um, and so the art department will, after discussions with them, come up with concepts. Often the concepts will go back to the director, and then the directors go, yeah, that's cool, or no, change that. And then once the con once the concepts are sort of signed off, they then go to us. Um you'd still have the our head of department and probably the art director, or one of the there's often more than one art director, there's several levels of art director, but whichever art director is dealing with that particular thing, um, discussing with with us um what they want. Um, and there's normally a lot of back and forth, and we get technical drawings um sometimes, and uh yeah, so we start making what they what they need. Um sometimes you get a lot of free reign um in a good way, you know, it's like oh we want this sort of thing, can you come up with something? Um, and then other times it's more specific, they know exactly what they want, and you sort of make it to that. Um I forgot where we're going.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

No, let me in the right direction, that's fine. Let me just ask you, how would somebody who's got an interest, how would they get into the business? What's the best way here?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So knowing what I know, having been to university, um I'd say obviously you can go down the university route, but I think if you uh have a passion and you've got evidence of that passion, you can probably get in. Um it's it's a hard industry to get into because there's people coming through all the time from university. There's the there are lots of jobs, there's new studios being built in the UK, but we do keep having quiet spots, and there are lots of people applying for the jobs. Lots of external things can influence how the industry is running at the time as well. So, for example, it's I've just finished a production and it's in a quiet spot at the moment where everyone's sort of waiting for the end of the tax year, also we've got things going on well globally that might be affecting when they start productions because of raising rate rising costs. Um so we're expecting sort of productions to be starting up at the end of April and beyond. Um but so yeah, to get into in into it, um yes, go to university, sure, but ultimately what you'll be doing after university is sending your evidence to people you want to work for. Right. You can do that without and you can do it without unique. You can do it without um university was good for teaching me some fundamentals like technical drawing, but again, there's so much information out there to nowadays, like YouTube, etc. Um, where you can you can learn stuff at at home. Um and yeah, I you've just got a same as any job, you've just got a email or call and just constantly do it. Find find information, there's information out there, just look for industry work, you know, uh related pages, whether you want to be in sound, camera, art department, prop making, there's there'll be a Facebook group for it, or there'll be a newsletter for it, there'll be something out there, and you'll be able to get um contacts and just start emailing people. Um show send them what you've done, yeah, and they'll be interested. You know, if if they need somebody, they'll take you on. Yeah, yeah. Um they're happy, yeah. Most of the departments are happy to take on trainees, people that don't even you know have that many, that much skills in the area. If they've got a little bit, show show a bit of initiative, then but I can mould them then, can't I? Exactly, yeah. Um, and like for example, this recent show I just did Silo, um we had altogether over the period of time, we had probably 10 trainees fresh out of um doing courses. Um not all of them university, and most of them are great. Um you do occasionally get people that turn up and like I say, as as before, um don't show initiative and just sort of keep their head down or or don't don't really um in well initiative is the biggest thing. If if you if you get given a job and you just sort of plod on with it, don't put any special effort into it, then you're not gonna get anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

People need to remember you, people need to to know who you are, and you know, with myself I'm not the most outgoing person anymore, but people remember me because if if if if they want something doing, I'll do it, I'll do it good. I'll do it to the best I can do. I'll try and go beyond what was requested. Um cool. Yeah, and you could pretty much every day on this job you could find me and a couple of other colleagues there before start time and their various hours afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Now that's a very important thing, isn't it? Yeah, you know, you you have a start time, yeah, but like you say, if you're gonna put the extra time and the extra effort in, they're gonna notice, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah, and you I mean you don't have to do the extra hours, you're not getting paid for it most of the time. But if you've got a passion for it, you probably will do them. Um, you know, I often work through break times, which you know boss didn't approve of, but uh it was I I just didn't want to stop. Right. I was enjoying what I was doing, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to do it. Um there's an ADHD focus in there. Uh yeah, a break break time is an interruption, it gets in the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um yeah, you just gotta show some passion, you've got to you've got to really be there because you want to be there, and uh even if it's not the job you want to be doing, because when you a lot of the time if you start in prop making, you will start as the person doing all the rubbish jobs, so you will be sanding things every day, you'll be making multiples of small things, you will be just uh cleaning up moulds, etc. Things that have just come out of the mould room. But it's like an apprenticeship though, isn't it exactly? Yeah, and even we if you're doing that boring job, yeah, I think I think it it's not fun most of the time. But make you know, try and make it as fun as possible, talk to people, engage with people, um, and if you hear anything else going on, you know, keep your eye ear open in the workshop because if you might be doing this really boring job at the moment, but the boss might say, Oh, we need somebody to do this thing, and you can go, Oh, I can do that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, if you've got the skills there, you want to prove yourself, you know, just keep keep your ear out. If you go in there and just don't don't pay attention to what's going on around you, then you know you won't get those opportunities. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to prove yourself, put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Good. Alright, well we're we're nearly at the end. So I've I've really enjoyed it because I mean it's it's a different side to the entertainment industry, and like you said in the beginning, you know, when you you're within the art department or the production side, it's just so wide, isn't it? You know, you can go down to so many different avenues in there. Um pitfalls.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Um by no means glamorous, like I say. Um not even not for anybody, but even I'd say even for most actors, you're you're in a trailer all day and you know going to the toilet in a honeywagon. Um you might get a uh a driven car, etc. here one of the actors. But uh yeah, so you know, I I I'm away from home um during the week most of the time, um in London or wherever. Um