James Fry - being a Red Coat

In this episode talks to James Fry entertainer. He is now currently at Warners, but he started as a 17 year old and left home. It wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. He tells us the joys of being a manager for a touring company and why his cast caused mutiny. Some tricks of the trade when it comes to being paid.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome to Backstage Goss, the podcast where we dive into the entertainment world. Not just the red carpets and glitter, but the panic, the tears, the questionable career choices, and the what was the thinking moments too. We're talking to real people with real dreams, surviving the highs, the lows, and the occasional identity crisis along the way. So, grab your popcorn. This is gonna be fun. In this episode, we talk to James Fry. Now, James is an entertainer. He started in the business at 17 years old and went to become a red coat. Oh my gosh. If you knew what problems there were and how people were treated, James is gonna let us in on it. Oh, and don't get me started on agents.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

My name is James Fry, and I've been an entertainer for around 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

25 years, my how have you been? You don't even look 25. Oh, stop it. It's good to see you again, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Nice to see you too. Nice to see you too. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, it has been a while, yeah. It's been a few years, isn't it? Uh because we've done quite a bit together, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Over the years. About four panthers, some when I was a kid, some when I was an adult. Um, last one being it wasn't Trouble in Pantherland, was it? It was, wasn't it? Trouble in Pantherland.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Well, Trouble in Pantherland for you, yeah. Um then we went on and did a few more after that, but um yeah, I can't quite remember. Yeah, I mean I uh I think our last ride was with Steve Court, and that was Dick Whittington.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Oh, it was in that, I was the dame in that, yeah. So I forgot about Dick Wittington. I forget that, I enjoyed that role. You're over 40 now, so that's the reason why you're gonna be. That was with Laura, wasn't it? Crikey, yeah. That's going back some in it. Yeah, it's getting back before before the no Jen was I think Jen was about one, I think maybe. I don't know, must be eight, nine years ago. Jen being your child, Jen being, yes, Jen being my uh my oldest. Yeah, not one. Not one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

We're in Panto Land, it could be anybody. So what what what we want to do is um I want you to just give us a a brief background, you know, getting yourself into the industry. What what was it like? You know, what where did all the dreams come from?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Well, we started with Richard, my brother, who was also aspiring actor. Um, and he when I was eleven, my mum was like, What do I do with him? My brother was like, Well, take him to the drama classes, see how it goes. And it was your drama classes when I was eleven that I started. Um, back at the old seventh scout hut on Lovers Day. Oh my gosh, you remember them days? Yeah, my my kids did a sleepover there for squirrels the other the other the other year. It was like crazy. I was back in there, I was like, God, this brings back some memories.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

You remember some of them them exercises and everything else we used to do. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

At that stage that was about 10 foot high when you were a kid.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

I tell you what I found, I'll tell you what I found the other day. Oh, I was on stitches. I found the old video recordings we did of everyone.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Where was that little um talent show that we did that where we did sketches? We did like a bottom sketch, me and Jonathan. I think it was Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah, it was but it was also um where you had to um introduce yourselves and everything. Oh, hilarious, absolutely hilarious to look at you now and think what you were like then. Yeah, I didn't have a thing to grow up.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I still haven't. You should see we were the kids sometimes, more of a kid than them.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

More kids, I mean you've done well, I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, yeah, it stops now.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, so you came to my drama classes, yeah. Yeah, and what that you on the path or what? What happened?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

I got into it and then I started doing the school productions. Um, I think Mizard of Oz was my first one. I was a munchkin, and then I um and then I went on to do a few more. I did South Pacific as a as a small role uh where I had a speaking part, which was a really big speaking part, and I quite I quite enjoyed it. It was hard to learn.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah, I thought you meant a a role on a plate. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I did actually, yeah, it was very nice. And then I um and then I did Guys and Dolls, and I did that with my brother because uh Miss Mrs. Morgan, who was the um director for Magnus School Productions, she loved my brother because he was doing Wizard of Oz as the Lion and stuff, and um he we did it together. He loved that role. Uh so yeah, we enjoyed that. Um then we and then I finished my school productions with me and my girl. I was about 17. I'd left school and I went back for Mrs. Morgan to do that one, and then after that I started auditioning, started getting onto stage magazines as the days were when you get the stage magazine. Oh my gosh, looking for auditions and everything. And there was a there was a little little article to uh to work at Wicksteed Park as um in the entertainment character as a character in the entertainment shows there. And I joined joined Wiksteed, I joined Wiksteed Park, started doing the Wiki Bear shows, but I wasn't Wiki Bear, and I wasn't his best mate, who was the dog. I got to play the woman. Oh I had to wear pink tights and a very big head, so you couldn't know it was me, uh, which was quite funny. But I'd I'd I'd stroked a bold man's head once, and he went to me, whispered in my ear, saying, 'You better be a woman' in there.' I remember that. That was hilarious. And I just I absolutely stepped back because I was I was like, Well, I don't know if you're gonna take my head off. So just stepped back from him and carried on walking around. Good heavens, you always had a mind with you. You always as a character, you always have a minder, so you you are kind of protected in a way, but it doesn't stop people like pushing you and shoving you because it's only so much a mind you can stop.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Yeah, sorry. What did you do next? Where did you move on to?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Um after the WixD Park, I started auditioning um as a singer because I I got into singing it, doing karaoke. So I did loads of karaokes like around uh Kettering, where Wixty Park is, and I was doing karaoke around Newark at the barge, which is uh used to be quite a famous karaoke bar in Newark, it's just a bar now to stop the karaoke. Um that job didn't um uh so I I started auditioning as a singer to be in show teams, and I I didn't uh I auditioned for Warner Hotels or Warner Warner Breaks, as it was.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Oh, right, okay, yeah. But let me just ask you, I mean, because going from the um fun park or whatever it was to a singer, that's quite a jump, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

It was because it it was it was weird because there was a singer that was there that worked in holiday parks as a singer, and he was quite an accomplished like singer. He'd he'd been in the trade, he knew it, he knew how to sing, he knew how to like proper perform his songs. But when I was doing it, I was quite nervous, and you could tell I was when I did it at Week Steve Park, and I don't think the manager there ever thought I would go into singing. Um, and I just I slowly started doing more and more karaokes and it boosted my confidence big time, and then I just went for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

It's amazing though, innit? You know, what a karaoke will do for you.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It is, people think oh, it's just a it's a load of crap. It's not, it's not really at all. It's it is good for confidence, if anything. Yeah, if you can if you can't sing, then that's fair enough, you can't sing, but it does help your confidence.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

So, I mean, you obviously you you you'd have got compliments along the way and everything else. What was the best compliment you ever got?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Oh my god, that's a I don't know. Um recent, well not recently, about three years ago, Michael Ball came to uh Forsby Hall, where I'm working now, um and he was walking with his uh manager, I think it was his manager, he was walking through because he was in the old house in one of the suites there, and he walked through and I was singing in the great hall as he was walking through, and he went the long way around, but then had to come back into the great hall to get up the stairs to get to his room. And as he walked past with his manager, his manager went up first, and then he went, and as I was singing, he just gave me this slight nod, like it seemed like an appreciation nod. I was like, Oh, that's nice, and I'll always remember that.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah, but you swore it weren't wind. It might it might have been, it might have been, you never know. The only reason why I say that, because I I I remember being at a show and meeting him, you know, on the way through as he's walking. He did that, he nodded and he followed through. I was like, Oh, I don't know, James. I don't know where you're going with that one. Got some skills that man. Hey, that's um that's nice to uh have had a little nod off him, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, he didn't really because when I saw him preparing for the show and stuff, we was in the theatre as well, but I was just helping out because I was part of the entertainment team, just helping out being there just in case they needed any help. And he didn't really talk to any of us, he was talking to his team and these backup singers and his band and everyone that he had there. And he was just talking to us professionally, and the only things I said to him is about getting photos up on the uh on the projectors. I said, We can do that, don't worry, we'll get projectors of your photos. It'll all be sorted by Chris, the technician. So that's the only conversation I had with him. So it was quite nice that when he walked through and heard me singing, that it seemed like he enjoyed what I was singing. Well, I don't know, maybe he had wind, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

But yeah, you might be barking at the wrong tree. Oh, bless you. So, how long have you been where you are now then?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Uh four and a half years. I did four years as a daytime host slash vocalist. I didn't do the show team, but I did sing. I was doing like 45-minute, half an hour spots in either the Great Hall, which is there, or the live lounge bar, and I was doing late nights sometimes as well when I worked Friday night. I only did one night, mostly mostly I did daytime. Um, but yeah, I did it for four years until they've completely had a revamp and changed the way they do things, and now I'm uh and now I'm with the leisure team though. So it's a bit of a different step. And the it is nice though, in a way, because I do get more and more compliments because of that, because a lot of guests that like regulars that come to Forsby a lot aren't quite happy about the change of the daytime procedure, how things work in daytime, and they're like, bring back James, bring back his humorous quizzes, bring back his his half an hour singing spots and stuff, and it's quite nice. I see it on Triple Visor now and again, and there's um Warner Hollicks Anonymous, which is a Facebook page, and they sometimes mention me on there, and it's it's quite nice to be remembered. It's only about four months since I left it, but it's nice to be remembered. Yeah, it's a testament to your skill. Yeah, yeah, it's it's nice. Um, I I actually went for the Ents Manager because the Ents Manager that was there has now gone up one more place, and he's now like operations manager for entertainment, spa, and leisure. Um I don't think it's leisure, I think it's more like entertainment, spa, and reception sort of area. And yeah, he needs now an Ents manager to take his place to be the manager of the Ents team because he can't just do that, he has to do everything.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Oh, no, sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

So I went for it, but I went up against a girl that's the team leader and she got the job over me. But it was quite nice to interview for it, and I I thought I did really well with the interview, and hopefully it opens me up again to get back into the entertainment team if he can find a spot for me somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Well, you know, take the positive from it, you know. I mean, I just say, I mean, four four and a half years that's a long time in one place, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah, it is, yeah. But uh it's it's the only place really close by because you've got centre parks as well, but they don't have an entertainment team. It's it's hard when you've got a family and you you live in Newark to be able to go out. I can gig a lot in Lincolnshire because I'm back the same night, really, because I just travel out and about, or a gig in Newark or a gig in Nottinghamshire. But to actually have a job, you've got you can only be so far away because you need to come back.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah. Alright, well look, let's let's go back. Let's go back to the karaoke days, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Um you know, you you got yourself in that. How far afield did you used to go with that?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Not that well, obviously when I worked in Wixley Park before I started doing me singing jobs. Um I worked at so I did the pubs there. Well, there was only one pub that did karaoke, actually. It was a um O'Malley's bar, I think it was. Um, I think it's still going, but it's uh I don't think it's like it used to be.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

A lot of bars aren't like they used to be, I must admit. They're not are they, no? No, no, sometimes some of the fun's been ripped out of them. But um I've done karaokes all over though, because even when I was singing in um like because my first Warner's job back in 2003, I was down in Lakeside, which is in Hailing Island, which is just below Portsmouth. So I've I sang in the karaoke's on Hailing Island, because when I wasn't uh singing, I loved it so much. Let's go to a karaoke. Let's let's sing a song I don't know. Let's let's it's the one way of learning a song that you don't know or you think you know, do it on a karaoke because no one cares. Oh I was just gonna say, I can imagine. Well they do they do care. Oh, you can't see what's rubbish, that was but it's not that you're being you're not being kind of like criticized by punters or by guests. It's just people at the pub having a drink and just having banter.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Well, it's it's actually quite a um quite a clever way of doing that, isn't it? Really, you know, trying out your material and everything. Because if you if you're in a bar, you know, and you're you're wagging it out there and you you hit them bum notes and everything else, and they're like, Oh Jesus, get him off.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, yeah, you can just leave or or just go back, or you or you just write another song that you know you can sing, put that in after that's one now. Yeah, I'll sing one I know next.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah,'s God is at on.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh god, that's me and my girl. I remember that song.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

So I mean with the old karaoke and everything else, did you continue with the musical theatre side of things?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Um I do I do I do the Newark Amateur Operatic Society nowadays, so I I have kept in it. Um I've joined them, I've done six shows with them now. I think I've done six shows with them now. Well, the first one I did was Adam's Family, and that was Gomez, and I really enjoyed that. That was an air and fair too. I wonder why I enjoyed doing the Spanish accent. Um then I was Wizard of Oz again, round circle kind of thing. But I played I played the wizard this time. He was the old heart, crinkly thing, wasn't he? Yeah, but nowadays they try and make him young because we saw it at the uh the um the curve in Leicester, and it had a really young hip um wizard, it was only about 35-40, and he was young and hip, and it was a completely different way of doing it, it was very clever. Um, we didn't obviously go down that sort of route, but they thought, oh yeah, I I auditioned for wizard over five people, and and and Mike Folland, the director, wanted to give it to me at the time, so that's quite nice.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Me, good for you, man.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

It was between me and Rosie, but it was gonna be he, I think he was humming and harring about making Rosie, but then I think he wanted to stay traditional and not have a woman playing a role, have a man playing a role. I think she would have been good at it, but oh yeah, Rosie's really good. Yeah, I think she'd lovely.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

I mean, she knows, I mean, she always was.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, I've just done a show with her actually. Uh Calendar Girls the Musical. She played my wife, I played John the cancer victim, and uh I was only in it, I was only until scene eight, and then I leave the show. But it was really nice.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

In the old industry, aren't you? We'll get James in. Yeah, we we only need him for five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

You could die on stage, can't you, James? Yeah, yeah, I've done it many times, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Who is it? Argent are coming back to do uh full money, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah, Chantel, who's Argent's secretary. Um, she asked me to do it and I said no, I'm only doing one. I'm doing quiz. I'm odd, I'm rehearsing quiz at the moment. But the uh the Chris the not the Chris Tarrant, but I'm playing Chris Tarrant, but it's the Who Wants Millionaire scandal. Oh wow. I'm gonna have to do Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Let me guess, let me guess. One minute, Chris Tarrant, yes, yeah, that's right. No, you got it down to a T. Well done, mate. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. With regards to amateur productions as opposed to professional productions. Which do you prefer?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

I don't know, because some of the amateur stuff I've done has been very close to professional, just you don't get a paycheck at the end of it. You're paying them. It's the opposite way around, you're paying them because they need the money to accrue to get the money on board to actually afford to do all the stuff they can do. So it's a bit of an opposite way around, but I do think some of the amateur productions I've done are quite professional. But I did touring and then I did I did professional ones like tour and pantomimes, where I did get paid a weekly, a weekly wage, a salary. And some of them were well pathetic, they weren't very good at all. And you're like, these are paid jobs against stuff I've done recently, amateur stuff, and you're like, just I I think the amateur stuff is more is more committed. I think people are more passionate sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yeah, sometimes sometimes Phil I mean well, let's let's just say, you know, we'll put it out there, you know, with the newer corporatic. I mean, I joined them years ago and we just yeah, but everything they did was professional. Yeah, the production values and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I mean, absolutely, you know, they spend a fortune every year though at the uh the Palace Theatre, they spend a fortune on that production, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

And there's a there's a great bunch of um people, you know, within that. Um and it was a it was a great family to be in, you know. Um let's let's just look at learning. You mentioned something now, you know, with the with professionals, yeah. Yeah, there's some shit jobs that come up there, aren't there? Yeah, some rubbish jobs. Um I can't believe they pay people.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Sorry, I can't believe they pay people to put a shit shit show on. I know, I know you do. You see some of it, you're like, this is this is like watching crossroads sets falling down behind you.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

It's like on a few professional shoots as well. Yeah, yeah. I remember that year we played the pantomime, yeah, where the where we had the ship. Oh wasn't the whole yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

We had a picture behind that ship as one of the promo pictures. At least the ship was good for something.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

But how did you used to get your your work?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Well, I did a lot of seasonal work as well. So I did Warners for um well one year lakeside, and then I left, had a few years back in New York doing odd jobs, and then I went back into it at Norton Grange, which is on the Isle of Wight, and then did Bembridge. But then obviously I had my ups and downs with both of them, hoping to get assistant manager with one of the one of the one of the places, and I I didn't get it. And in the end, I just thought I'm bowing out of Warners, I want to move on, try something else. And I didn't know. Why do you think that was though? Why why do you because you seem to be getting knocked back quite a bit? I don't know. I was younger then, so I took it as young. Now I'm like, I've got 25 years experience. Why are they picking someone that's younger than me to be a manager? But them days I can understand that I was I was younger, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's they see me too much as a a joker. I don't know. I can I can be quite a joker, quite maybe they don't see me as management material, maybe maybe they don't think that I'll be able to control a team. I don't know. You're very committed, aren't you? I am committed to it, though, committed to all the cause, and and I've got I had some great ideas I passed on to my last interview for a manager's job. And uh if they start using them, I will I'll be like, oh well, where do you got that idea from?

unknown 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

That's we were talking about this in um in one of the other podcasts, you know, where you you go for your interviews or you're pitching a a film, an idea for a show or whatever. Six months down the line, it gets used, and you think, you Bastards.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah, I I think they will. You uh especially one idea because the new Warner's reserve hotels, which is Forsby's one of them, there's three. Their idea of reserve is for the entertainment to be elevated but discreet. So they don't want it in your face, hosting, coming out bubbly, hello, how are you doing? All that sort of stuff, and being like over the top. They want it to be more like posh, I suppose, more modern and posh and a bit more suave. I think it's the word probably a better word for it.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Uh are we talking about maybe some of the shows that were around in the 60s and 70s, you know, with that that full level of professionalism, but like you're saying, not an Elvis show, but let's put it that way. Yeah, look at a Frank Sinatra show, yeah. Yeah, you know, or uh a Sammy or whatever, yeah. They were reserved in a very professional manner, you know. I mean, with the way that they delivered their uh stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

The new shows they're doing, uh they've just done like a Rocky show, and that's like very uh very classy. It's very they've got this bass guitar playing behind them, and then they've got he I he's not a bass guitar for this, though. He's a he's actually playing the real guitar because he can do both. And they have him, like it's quite quite cut back acoustic style rock, rock and rock show, not rock and roll, rock show, and it's quite stripped back. There's such songs like chain in it and chains in it, and um uh beautiful things by uh Benson Boons in it, but it's a very cut back acoustic style performance, and it's very good. I must admit, I really enjoyed watching it because I watched the um their their last rehearsal when they actually before they actually put it to the punters. A lot more. So I did watch it, I must admit I thought it was very good. I said, but it was very you could tell that that's the kind of way they're going. But I said about I said elevated and discreet is like a um it's kind of contradiction in terms, like you can you be elevated but discreet at the same time. Well then I said, But you've got your LED screens, haven't you? I said, instead of just putting pictures up of the the yeah advertisements that you put up that goes through, you should have a video, a promo video of what's coming up next. It doesn't have to be on, it doesn't have to be on sound, it can just be playing, just rolling, yeah. Just rolling. People can see it, but oh, this is coming up next, this looks good, and that's without being too loud and too in your face, it's there, people are watching it. But if that happens, I'd be like, oh, well, it's funny that because I mentioned that. So that was what one of my best ideas I I give him on in the pitch. I was because it was it was hard, it was an hard interview to try and be trying because they were worried about my legacy from before with the old Forsby. Now it's a new Forsby, that it's completely different. They were like, they didn't want they were they were didn't want me connected because I'm too connected to the old style. I think that was that was their problem. So you win some, you lose some.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Yeah, right. What if um let's get down to nitty-gritty now? Yeah, what um what's the issue with the industry? What's it really like? You've lived it, what's it like?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Very bitchy. Yeah, everyone's everyone's your best mate on stage, but then you go backstage and you can hear people talking, you can hear whispers, you can hear and then you could you become like sometimes with with men, especially it's the women, women can be the worst, so I hate to say it, but they are the worst.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

I will never believe that.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

And because you're the man, they come to you to console with you, so they tell you stories about the other women. Oh, she does this and this and this, and and then and then the other woman will come and say, Oh, she's like this, this is and I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, just get on with each other. I think that's why they console with me because I don't quite I don't start arguments and I don't bicker and I don't bitch. Yeah, no, maybe maybe I should start doing it, maybe I'll do better in the industry. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

You should stir it up a bit and go, yeah, that's that's exactly what I thought about her. She's a right one, ain't she? Yeah, get yourself right in there.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

I just listen. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes I'll disagree and they don't like it when you disagree, then they get all defensive. You're like, well, I'm you're asking me, I'm giving you my opinion now. I don't think I don't think that's right. I don't think she is like that. But what's the worst job you've been very bigger? What's the worst job you've had? Wixte Park was a great job because it was my first job. But when you look back at it, it was living in a horrible chalet at the bottom of Wixie Park, which was run down, it was like a shack to live in. Um, but because it was my first entertainment job, you're living on the high of it. So I didn't feel it back then. But when you look back at it now, you think, Oh my god, why was I living there? What a shit all so that was one of them. Another one's doing tour and pantomimes. People, because they they do them in shows, like they do like a few uh social clubs and do schools, it can be an educational thing as well. So they get them in for like a treat for the kids at school and watch a panto. And all the kids see all this glitzing glamour and you dressed up as a character, but they don't know where you're sleeping and stuff, and you're like sometimes it was like we we were told to sleep in this, it was called, it was called a caterer. Yeah, and I I was the manager of this as this touring team at the time, and I'm taking them to this catering, and it's literally like bunks of beds, but it's cold, it's horrible, it's damp. It's like it's like living in a barn. And they're like, We're not living here, and they all they all basically said, I'm not living here, I'm booking a hotel. And they all start it, and I had to get in touch with the uh director of the the director of the company, and I said, This isn't working. They're all walking out, they're all they're all wanting different hotels. So in the end, well, in the end, he was able to get us nice. He basically where we we went from nice hotel to nice hotel. Well, not nice hotel, but better than what we had. So we went from travel lodges to premier ins and he had to keep paying for it because we none of them would would have a base, they didn't want that base, that was meant to be our base. Good for them, yeah. Yeah, they they stood up for themselves, which I I I admire in a way, but at the time I was stressed out. Yeah, yes, I'm trying to follow my my rule. I'm like, this is me trying to be a manager. That was my first manager's job, was doing a tour in Panthe.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Well, that's actually a very good point, isn't it? You know, when you when you look back on it now and you realize that you should have stepped up as a manager and gone, do you know what? Leave it with me. I'm gonna handle this because you're right, this is not on. We're not doing how uh it annoys me. I get so enraged with it that companies that you know put young people out think that they can just abuse them.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I know, I know, it's because they were young. Uh like I think I was 25, 26, but they were like 18, 19, 20. Right, yeah, first jobs in the industry. It was probably one of their first jobs, yeah. Or they've just come out of their first season at Haven, or they come out of their first season at John Fowler Holidays, was another one. Um, and then they went into this, uh, doing a tour in Panto to fill in the the winter time before the season. Well, and then they basically had a dead couple of months and then they start the season again, but it kind of fills the space a bit. That's how they that's why they do these tour in pantomimes, it does fill the space. Um, but yeah, you do you get young people and they've just not been away from home for long. Yeah, and they get they get thrust into living in accommodation like that, and you're like, it's not right. The accommodation we had the year before it was at the same place, and it was better, it wasn't brilliant, but it was better, it was an actual house, it was an actual like sort of like a farmhouse. Um, and we did it with another the other another guy was manager at that time. I was just one of the actors, and it was fine. And I expected that to be the same for this year, the year I did, being the manager this time, and it was complete opposite. I was like, why do I get the yeah yeah?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

We had it okay last year. They want to make the you know the best margins they can make, you know, without having a fork.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I think he was struggling personally. I don't think he sold as many panthers as he did the year before, and he was struggling, and I think that's why he couldn't afford the accommodation he he got us for the year before. I think that was the the be all and end all of it.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Well, you'd knock it on the head, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Well, I I think he was gonna. He was talking to me about knocking it on the head. He says, I don't know if I can carry on in the and do these shows, and I think it was the end of December. We had a break, and then he was on the when we were supposed to come back in January to do about 10 more shows. Well, and he was like basically saying, I don't think it's gonna pay. We had to sell merchandise at a ridiculous cost, but people would buy it, like um glow sticks, stuff for the pantos to shine, and and we were selling them, but we were doing like two for two for a fiver, but it we were buying them for like 50p to a pound, and market was um incredible. Um, but we were and that's how we pay for our petrol because there was no way really yeah. You had to if you didn't sell merch, then you're like struggling, and you had to tell him, and then he'd have to be like, I'll have to transfer your money, but it's gonna it's gonna it would be a knock-on effect to him, so we relied on selling this merchandise.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah, did you ever ever listen to me? Do you ever no one? I'll go have a look at you ever have anyone walk off, walk away.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

In the Torian Pant lines, I'm trying to think, did I have anyone walk off? No, but I had an assistant manager one year, and he literally thought he was the manager. I was the manager, he was my assistant. We were pallip, but then all of a sudden it goes to his head, and he was a very strange guy. Hope you're not listening. He was a very strange guy. Um, but he was nice as well, but he he wasn't good at making friends really. Uh and and the other the other kids that were in the panto that were like kids that were 18, 19. Yeah, one of the girls started getting on his back, he was getting on her back, and then he tries to say they were having a relationship, you mean no, not that sort of thing. No, just just having a go at each other. And then he tries to sack her. And I'm ignoring it all. He tries to sack her. I've never heard that term, that's a euphemism, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

I know where we're going with this.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Oh dear, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had I was ignoring it all because I just I'm trying to get on with my stuff, trying to get trying to get talking to the to the the the venue that we were at and trying to set up the stage with the the guy who's doing the tech. And then all of a sudden this is all kicking off in my back, and then I'm like, I had to just step up in the end, and I had to I got I got my angry face out, and I was like, what is going on? You can't just do this, and I I got absolutely irate with him. Yeah, and in the end, I think he, yeah, in the end, I think it was a massive hoo-haw. All of the actors went against this assistant manager, and he got the sack. In the end, I think that's what happened. It's a while ago, and I try to think back to it. Um, but I think he got the sack, and we had to get someone in desperate measures like stretching out. Can someone fill this role? We need someone for this role, and we had a person that was literally his lines backstage before he went off. But yeah, I think he got the sack from the from the company. The company was like, we can't have this guy, no one likes him.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Oh, good for you. It just seems, you know, um, the more people I talk to, you know, with regards to the industry, especially on the entertainment side, and and don't don't get me wrong, the entertainment industry is huge, you know, it's not just about singing, dancing, you know, there's a whole range of um genres and everything else that we can get into. But the thing for me is I'm listening to a lot of actors and actresses. Um, I haven't spoken to too many production people at the moment, but the actors and the actresses they have some shit times. Yeah, they do. You know, what's the worst time you've ever had?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

That was one of them that I just explained then. Yeah, with that guy and then living in that cat or trying for us to live in that category. We'll win against it in the end. Um you got me thinking now. I knew I'd have to wrap my brain.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Um yeah, here's one for you, right? Yeah, got on. Let's say you've done a job, yeah. How long do you have to wait for your money to be paid?

SPEAKER_01 35:17

With a touring pantomime, it was it was every week you'd get a pay, um, but then they could sometimes be delayed on that, and the f uh and then working abroad, that could be awkward because they take a retainer off you. So you pay 20% to them to keep you there, because if you leave, you don't get that 20% back. So every month you get a 20% taken off you, it goes in a pot, and if you stay for the whole season, you get that as a whole pot, which is nice. And I had a few of them when I went to America with one of the pots. I was like, well, I've got all this money, let's do it. Um but it's but they can be they took they got they took sometimes six to seven weeks to give you that retainer back after you'd finished. Season was over. You're like, where's this money that if we finish our season we're gonna get? I had to I was I I was screaming at one year. I was like, I I've got plans with this money, I I want to go to New York City, and and I was waiting to get the money, and I was like, what am I supposed to do? I I need the money before I book this. I think I think in the end, um I think my mum did the booking and I just paid her back because I was waiting so long for it. But I'd I I just I don't know what was going on with it. But they are terrible sometimes at paying.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, yeah. What what would you um what would you say to somebody, you know, with regards to agents? Agents can be bad.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

I've I've got my own back of agents though. Because they want they want the commission off you if you get paid in cash. And I sometimes will do a lot of cash gigs and then do one where it's backs payment. Now the backs payment goes to the agent and comes back to you. And I was very clever with this because I'd got I'd have that backspayment and that would be my fee. That would be how I pay my commission. So they can use that money to pay the commission. So they're asking me for money. I'm like, well, I've got one backs payment now. You you in the end they had to use it, but it would sometimes if I had paid all my commission and getting that backs payment, it would take sometimes two to three months for my agent to give me money. Wrong. And it's like, what I sang this chart, I don't even remember singing this place anymore, it's been so long.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

So so let's let's just talk about contracts then. Because I mean, how does it work with a contract, you know, when you're on the touring and everything?

SPEAKER_01 37:35

That's the problem. I do that with the backs payments to pay my commission, and then they take forever to pay me. But in other words, we're both we're both literally um breaking the contract because they're supposed to pay you in so many days, and you're meant to pay them in so many days. So it's tit for tat, really, when you think about it. But that's that's how you get away with it. And I started asking for just cash-only payments. I was like, I want cash-only jobs, thanks. And then I'll and then in the end, I just paid them to commission and I would pay it more often, the commission to them through my bank, because it was easier just to get cash only. Because then at least you knew you at least you knew you were getting the money straight away. It's just anyone that's coming into this industry, yeah?

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yeah, anyone who's coming in now, what advice could you give them?

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Have some savings behind you. Definitely have some savings behind you because if you're fresh into it and expect to get paid, if you're definitely if you're doing agency working gigs and stuff, um, some some agents can take forever to pay you. If you think, oh, it's £250 for that singing gig, and you think you're gonna get that the next week if they've said to you not get it cash only, don't think you're gonna get it in the next week because you know, so don't don't lay on that £250 thinking that I'll be able to spend that straight away.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

That's why I started going for cash-only payments. I was like, it's the only way around it. It's a pain, innit? Yeah, so I'd definitely say have a bit of savings behind you. Um, or or a good mum and dad.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Yeah, well, yeah, like you say. So I mean that that's part of the downside. Is there any other real downsides to the industry that you've you've witnessed yourself?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

It can be used. In what way? Well, I like I say, when I worked at uh Warner's at Norton Grange, I was literally they got rid of the team that was with me, they got rid of the manager, they got rid of uh no, they got rid of the manager, and then everyone else followed because they were all connected to the manager. That's how they got the job there. So literally I was the only one left in the end. Oh and a new manager came in, and I'm showing him the ropes because I've been there a year and a half. I knew the job, knew the place, not the job, he knew the job better than me, obviously, but because he was a manager, he was like he was like 20 years older than me. But I knew the place, I knew the technical side of it, and he he used to lie on rely on me to get the technical side right. I always used to get asked to go in the box before we before the days of technicians that we have nowadays. Um, and then I'm thinking, I'm helping him out loads, and like he started to bring in these new singing. We had a couple of new singing girls, one was a choreographer as well as a dancer as well. And then I'm thinking, oh right. I'm not thinking anything of it, I'm thinking, oh, I've been helping him out. Surely he wants an assistant manager, and then I'm thinking that this is gonna be me, and then all of a sudden he brings in this guy. I'm like, Welcome, Gareth. He's your assistant manager. I'm like, all right. So literally got you. I still got used by him all that time as well, because Gareth had no idea about the technical side in some aspects that I did.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

I might have shown him up, I would have shown him up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

And uh, but I like the guy, I like Gareth. I did get on with him really well, I had a good laugh with him, and so that was that was the hard bit. I couldn't actually hate him because I like the guy, but it wasn't his fault, we had no idea, yeah. He had no idea that I was hoping for it, but then Bembridge, the other hotel on the Isle of Wight, the manager there, and said, Oh, let's um I need I need a number. He literally was saying to me, I need I need a number two. I said it's over there.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Um you know, sometimes you do get caught short, don't you? And you need that, you need to get that number two out. You know what I mean? Why he tell you that, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Um that's a bit he was literally promising me, like, oh, come work with me. Uh I want I need an assistant manager. You can you've been here a while, you know the job, you've no warners, I can make you my sister manager. And when I got there, and I I did move, um, and it was nice, it was a lovely hotel, better than Norton for the stage and everything. It was a beautiful stage. And I got there, and then the the dance captain that was there was like, I was telling her about maybe being the assistant manager. She was like, Hold on, he's had a shout out to me about being an assistant manager. No, yeah, so she's in her head thinking she's gonna be made the assistant manager, yeah, yeah. And then I'm thinking that I was hoping I was gonna be made the assistant manager, and in the end, we get told that the assistant manager's role has now been obsoleted, made basically redundant, and they're not having assistant managers anymore. And we're like, all right, so I've just got Luled, and he's got this dance captain doing all the stuff, work all these jobs for her. I've got Lul to come because he needed another male singer, and that's why he got me, and that was his that was his bottom line. He needed a male singer with him. So I'm his second, and it was just like I get on with him, but I just couldn't believe he he got me like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yeah, it's just like we're coming to the end here. Yeah, we've only got a few minutes left. Let me just ask you, what is a good starting point for somebody coming into the industry on the entertainment side? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Oh you want to say knowledge, but it isn't knowledge because knowledge comes with time. You learn more as you go along. You can learn all this stuff at university about performance skills, about how to shut curtains and put on lights and all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

But until you actually get onto a holiday park, you won't know what it's like. So I I would say be cautious. Don't lay all your cards on the table at once.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Don't don't open yourself up to being the the go-getter and the and the um you know the the gopher. Gopher, that's the word I'm looking for. Don't be the gopher. Stand up for yourself, but obviously don't go to the limits of being rude and horrible.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

So you don't be respectful.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah, be respectful, but also look like you've got your mind and look like you know what you're what you're wanting. Just don't yeah, don't be used. That's all I say. And and you do in the industry, you get used a lot, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

And on that note, we're gonna finish because that says it all, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

It does, it really does. James, thank you very much. Another another episode of Backstage Goss. And you know what? The thing with it with the entertainment industry, the more I listen to everybody, it's quite sickening. You know?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Yeah, I don't know why we do it, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

That's for another day. James, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Have a lovely evening. Well, there you have it, another episode, and again, more problems. So, as James says, you know, don't be the do-gooder, don't put yourself out there to be used, yeah to be the gopher. That's not gonna help you. I mean, just be yourself, do a cracking job, make sure you've got a few bob put by. Because as James says, you could be waiting a long time for your money. Next up, Michael Bond, how a local boy ends up running as a general manager at the Apollo Theatre, which is a grade two listed West End Theatre in Chartesbury Avenue, and became the fourth legitimate theatre to be constructed on the street when it opened the doors on the 21st of February 1901. We're gonna find out Michael's journey into entertainment.