Harvey Duddles - Banging my way to Happiness

Harvey is a young man whose journey and passion left him at an early age. Having been a child actor, even going on to study the art form, it seems there was something not right for him. One day his passion left him. What was he to do next. Luckily, also from an early age, this young man had another passion. A passion for music; the drums.

This is Harvey's story how he now lives and breath's music. Enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Backstage God, the podcast where we dive into the entertainment world. Not just the red carpet and glitter, but the panic, the tears, the questionable career choices, and the what a thinking moments too. We're talking to real people with real dreams. Surviving the highs, the lows, and the occasional identity crisis along the way. So, grab your popcorn. It's gonna be fun. In this episode, we talk to Harvey Dougles. Now Harvey's journey takes into the world of drama and music. Yeah, he lost his love and his passion for the acting world, but he found his love for music. He became a drummer. Let's find out what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Hi, my name's Harvey Duddles. I am a drummer.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Harvey Duddles. I can remember when you were a mere slip of a young girl. Yeah, I know. I'm glad it put a smile on your face. Yeah, it's good to see you, Harvey. How are you been?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

How do you, man? Good. Really good. Um I literally, this year I turned 30.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Which is Shut up!

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah. Feel feels mental. But in the last year I've bought a house, I've done all of the adult stuff as such. So like life's just great at the minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Good for you, man. Yeah, have you settled down? Have you got anyone on your arm or what?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Not quite on my arm, but I've just settled down in the house. So I've been in the house since last February.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So that that's all settled down, settled down locally as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Are you are you on your own or have you got a partner or what?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

No, live on my own, I'm on my own. So I I quite like my own space and my own time. So that kind of living on my own, living in the house on my own works really well for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah. No, good for you. Alright, well, listen. Um I want you to take us on your journey, yeah, into the world of entertainment. Listen to me. Um, because when when did you actually start? You know, way, way back. What what was you doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

So it would have probably been with you when you were directing. Yeah. Early, early on, literally would have been five, six years old, I think. When I first started working with you, and then I went down the NITS route in Newark, which is a drama group in Newark. As with Carolyn, wasn't it? Carolyn Drew. Yeah, bless her. Yeah. And um Flick as well, obviously. Flick was a massive part of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Um, but that was kind of my performance up until 16, 17, which is when I really started taking drums seriously at that point.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So I've kind of always been on there, always on the stage.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

But I stopped acting and went on to the music side of things quite late on compared to other drummers, realistically, or other musicians.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Did you never fancy going into the uh the business?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

No. I don't know what it was, though. And I feel like if you're gonna do it, you've got to 100% commit and love every second of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

But I mean you you were committed, weren't you? Every weekend, you'd you'd be down there and you'd Yeah. Did you just lose?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I don't I think I just lost the the passion to be to be performing in that way, as such.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

So the the passion perform and play is still there. Yeah. 100% it is, but just in a different way to what it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Yeah. What did you used to like about those sessions?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

For those particularly with Nits, there was a real social element of it as well. So it wasn't just you're coming in and you're acting. That that was kind of my friendship group.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

And that was my social time. That was my time with my friends, was while we were at Knits.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah. They were a nice bunch of uh people, weren't they?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, yeah, really nice to be fair. Um, there was uh I'm trying to think of the wars, the leaders, there was Tim McManus as well. Who was uh seriously?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Tim was here?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, oh my god was the leader while I was there.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

So he used to he used to leave my group quite a bit. He always used to take the older group on. And that for years that was I was in that group, so I was in Tim's group quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah. What type of stuff did you do? Shows wise?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Um, so looking back in school, I stopped doing school shows quite early on. So I went into the technical side of things, so operating spotlights, doing the sound and lighting for shows as well, which is what I went on to with training at university as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Oh, what university did you go to?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I went to Confetti. So part of Trent University at the time. I don't know if they are anymore, I don't think they are. But at the time I went to Confetti, it was the first ever year, my year was the first every year to do a degree in technical events through Confetti. Wow, how'd you get on?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah, loved every second of it. Loved every single second of it. I think if it wasn't for COVID, for the lockdown, I'd still be in that industry now. I'd still be I'd still be a technician now.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Oh really?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah. I took a job on like a working from home call centre job during COVID. Full intention to go back to the theatres and go back as an engineer. And lockdown lifted, the theatres reopened, and I just didn't really, once again, I didn't feel the push to go leave my full-time job with a with a good pay packet as well, to go back to being a self-employed zero hours contractor in a theatre.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Let's just talk about that because you mentioned, you know, you uh salaried, yeah, and freelance. What you know, what were the difficulties there?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

So I worked uh worked a lot with the Palestrator in Newark as a spotlight, and then uh when I moved to Nottingham University, I moved on to the theatre Royal Royal Concert Hall. And the the problem at the time was getting guaranteed regular work. So because we were all on zero hours contracts, quite rightly as well, they found out they didn't need the staff.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So some of us would then get shifts cancelled, so like money that people were relying on. I wasn't that bad because I was a student. So I I kind of had my stuff my stuff to fall back on. But there was people there that it that pretty much was their job as such, and that's all that they did.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And they'd end up having their shifts cancelled and losing out of money.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Nah, that there was nothing against the theatre, that's nothing that they could have helped. But that that's the issue when you've got zero hours contract.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

If and it was if I'd have had a full-time contract there, I don't think I'd have ever left. Realistically.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Really?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

But yeah, I loved it there. I loved I loved working there. But it was the industry that was putting me off.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, okay, yeah. I was just gonna say, what was it having the pay packet? Yeah, what was it that you know you really enjoyed about that job?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I think there was I've always been creative as a as a person, as ever since I was a kid, and kind of having a input into whatever was going on. So I did a Gary Barlow concert at the Royal Console, literally just unloading trucks, didn't design anything, he was on tour, I was building. I did build and unloading trucks and putting things together. Why how did you get that job? So that was on a Zero House Contract at the Royal Console. So they have house crew, house staff that just unload trucks and build on stage, and that was my job for two and a half years while I was a student.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Oh wow, I never knew.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Did the same at the Theatre All. So shows that were touring, so what shows did I do at the Theatre All? Uh Beautiful Carol King musical. I was in the loading the loadout for that show. So it wasn't I didn't design anything as such, but there was still the element of achievement from walking out on a blank stage to walking out with a West End standard set, built, rigged up, and that for me that was my sense of achievement working in that job.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, good for you, man. So when you did that job, what were your your type of duties that you had to do?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

So that was you'd turn up and you'd get put on either truck where you were just lifting cases and getting them inside, and then once they were inside, you'd get split off either into sound or lights, or staging, depending on how big the staging was on the top.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

So you can be plugging lights in and plugging cables into a into a light one day, then the next day you're dangling off a rig trying to hang a speaker. So that was kind of that was also part of the fun for me, because you never knew what you're gonna be until you got there.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

And that was for me, that was a lot of fun. Like the variety.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Is it easy enough for people nowadays to to get into that business or what?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

I think because there are so many zero hours contracts, and there are so many people in that industry that are freelance, because each venue you're only looking at two or three full-time staff.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

If you if you're being realistic for technicians, and on some of the shows I did, there was 20, 30 of us.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

So, and the rest of it was all made up from casual staff. So it's you just go for a normal job interview realistically, like it would do for a bar job on a Zeras contract.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

But don't ask for that much experience. They'd just know can you plug in a cable? Realistically, and you learn the rest on the job.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Really? Is that it? Yeah, can you plug this in for me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, that that's it. So that's that's the beauty about those shows is those tours are so well drilled, particularly by the time they get to Nottingham. Because when they're at Nottingham, they've been on the road already for what, two, three months sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

So it is literally everyone that's on the tour, because they've got their own crew as well, knows exactly what goes where.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

And it is literally pick this up, put it over there, plug this cable into it.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

End of.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

And that that's it. And two, two and a half hours later, you've got a fully registered ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

And for me, what always blew me away, the touring crew, was how well drilled they were. Yeah, right. Everyone knew what their part was, and no one really deviated from what they needed to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Um the thing for me is, you know, when when I look at that, you know, when you're on the production side, um it's the same old, same old. You know what I mean? I I I'd have got bored with it, I've got to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, but there was a lot of I suppose when you're on tour, when you're on the road, those people become your family. So there was a lot of camaraderie, there was a lot of banter, which did get us through the shift a lot of the time. So there were some shows, I think it was it might have been the Carol King show, the beautiful the Carol King musical.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

We didn't actually get out the theatre till three o'clock the next morning.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

That's the thing, isn't it? Yeah, you know those get-outs. I mean, it's like when we were doing, you know, the community pantomimes and everything else, you know, uh or the operatics. You know, all the actors and actresses would go, and then you've got all the all the all the poor sods on production. 12, 1, 2, 3, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah. I didn't do the tour, but it was a story about when Jersey Boys toured to Nottingham, and it took them three days to derig the show. There was that much going on. I've seen Jersey Boys, I saw it in London, and there is a lot going on. It was the same production I saw a couple of years before, and all of the moving moving sets, the lights come up and down and everything.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

And that is all on tour. Three days. So they had like two, I think it was like two or three replica sets.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

That one was being packed down, one was being built, and one was being used in the show.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Take that had a very similar thing on I think it was on their progress tour, where they actually had four replica sets of and the same thing on in a in a re in stadiums all over the country. One was being used. Yeah. One was being transported, one was being part down, one was being set up.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Almost just copy and paste in every single venue.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

But I mean, doing that type of work, I mean, that's hard graft, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah. It was. There was a lot of like heavy lifting involved, and like I was saying, sometimes you'd turn up and you get told you're on the truck and you were literally just lifting flight cases all day.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Oh, no, I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

But that for me was was actually quite good because you didn't see any of it go up. Oh, right. You're in the back of a truck all day.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

And you walk back through, and suddenly there's a massive concert fully set up. So you walk out on an empty stage and you walk back in and everything's set up, ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

You're easily pleased, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Stand the back of that truck, get it all unloaded, yeah, yeah. I ended up on truck a lot because I was one of the youngest.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

At the time I would have been early 20s, probably 19, early 20s.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So there was always the young guys would end up in the truck.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah. What was the best show you ever did?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Probably that Garibaldo tour.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Because I actually took my mum to the show. So I did the load in. Yeah. Took my mum to the show. He did two nights at the raw console.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And I did the load out the next day.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Did you get to meet him?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

And I didn't. Not on not on that occasion. There's been a couple of times where you do kind of bump inch people. Yeah. Which is quite cool. But it's the whole professionalism, I guess, as well. It's it's kind of I don't want to say frowned upon.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

But yeah, it's not it's not the best lot, probably.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

So you're telling me they had their heads up their asses.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Not not at all, no. They uh some of them were sort of Splendor one year for Nottingham Council. And it was the year when Buster did it. Tony Hadley Archie's headlined.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Oh, lovely.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Lovely day. Lovely day. On Tony Hadley drives a drive his own drove his own truck, which was quite funny. So Busted had these fly by night massive lorries that would turn up. And Tony Hadley turns up in a uh a minibus with all his band in it. And um bringing uh bringing a thing behind him which handled our gear in it.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Then he was driving.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

I met I met Tony Hadley back in the let me get this right back in the 90s. I think it was I think it was about 94. It was when Tony Hadley was there. Um what's his name? Um gosh, oh she's no I can't think of his name. The the ribbed guy. Um Katie Price's ex-old man. Andre. Oh Peter Andre.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Peter Andre, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, when he was out there, they were all doing a um was it little no little mix, no, magmix, oh I don't know. Some magazine was there, yeah. Um and they they put them all out and all all the all the big boys turned up and Tony was there. Um along with yeah, Peter Andre, and that was the night I was filming right out in the audience, and I captured it. Um stage was pitch black, yeah. Um I'm literally on the edge of the stage, and then the light came on, and you thought, oh my gosh, there's an Adonis man stood in front of you. He lifted up his microphone, and nothing came out.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

He went ballistic, absolutely, oh my gosh, yeah, makes me think because there was a couple of times when I worked at the conference centre at the university, so I worked there for about six months, seven months, and so many conferences because the thing with the conferencing was they never had that much time, realistically. If you think about bands and shows, how long they sound check for, yeah, how long they get set up. The conferences that I worked, it was Hello, my name's whatever. I'm presenting the next slot in ten minutes without any form of rehearsal. It was here's my PowerPoint on a memory stick. Oh gosh. I'm presenting in ten minutes. So that was a lot of pressure when you were one of the A V techs in that venue.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And we did loads of stuff there. I was saying I was there for about six months consistently.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

And they had one day a week where they didn't have an event on.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

But Sundays to have two or three events in one day. So you'd have a morning event, quick turnaround afternoon, and then a formal evening. Yeah. But with three separate companies as well. So three separate clients.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Cool deal.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Sometimes there was clients in one half of the conference centre and a different client in the other. So that was the conferencing side of things.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Which was probably faster paced than working in the theatre or working in the console.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah, right. What what was it what's the whole downside to that to that way of life?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I'd say probably, like I was saying, a lot of it is casual contracts, uh, or self-employed. But there is a lot of antisocial hours.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Like I was saying, a lot of the outside, a lot of the get outside beyond. You were lucky if you got out of the fire before midnight.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Do they pay you do they pay you extra for that, or is that part and parcel of the contract?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Only if you go past 3 a.m. is when they get is when you get paid extra.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

But as things like if it's a particularly late one, they'll cover your taxi home.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

So it wasn't like though they weren't a bad company to work for.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

But it was just kind of part and parcel of the job.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah. Well, I mean, your old journey, I mean, it's full on, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, yeah, very much so. I look I look back on it now, and obviously we'll talk about the drums and the music side of things in in a bit, but look back on it now, and that way of life was very fast-paced. I don't know how I found time to even play drums at that point. Because I was still in bands at that point as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Well, I mean what I was still playing at that at that time.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah, would you recommend that that that type of lifestyle to people or or or you know, or give it a miss?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

What what I'd say is if you're gonna do it, get into it while you're young.

unknown 20:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

As in what as in go and train or whatever, they don't really ask for qualifications a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

But if you want to get into it, yeah, I'd probably say the best time is when you are early 20s. Yeah. Early to mid-20s. It's a great way to live.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

But what would you what would you go and learn?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

So you'd learn the design side of things if you go down the training route. So when I was at Confetti, I went to Lincoln College as well and did technical theatre at Lincoln. Right. And then kind of expanded into live events in general at university. Yeah. And you learn the design side of things, you learn programming as well, so programming lighting desks. Yeah. And actually the up the actual operation side of things.

unknown 21:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Whereas if you work in for the venue, you're not gonna get that much operation times.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Realistically, you're literally gonna be a body to lift and plug. So it depends on what people want to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

I suppose when you look at it, I mean a designer also on the tour. Right. So you've got to be willing to live your life on the road for nine months at a time.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Wow, nine months uh yeah, you see, uh again, no good. It's gotta be a single man, innit? Or single person, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

If you if you look at how long these shows tour for now, the concerts now, that go venue to venue to venue to venue, and even the theatre shows as well now, like the the way that they tour.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Your your travel day is once a week, you're not gonna have time to go home.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

And there was a lot of people that were on the tours that were getting to the end of the tour. And they were saying, I heard people saying things like, I'm ready for I'm ready to kind of say goodbye to the show.

unknown 22:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

In nine months.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

So if you had to sum it up, what were the um the highlights of doing that work?

SPEAKER_00 22:25

It's got to be looking at it as a whole. So you've done you've done the loading, the early morning loading, you come in while the show is still on. So the crew are normally called for 10 if the show's coming down just after.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

So by the while the show is doing the finale or got a couple of songs left, the crew are already in the building. Then kind of like hearing that reaction from the audience and knowing you contributed, granted, a very small element, but you still contributed to that experience for the audience. For me, that will never that will never change.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, do you know what? I've never looked at it that way, but you're right, yeah. That that whole that whole form of adulation when the crowd are roaring and they're yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, you you're part of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Because without your bit, you know the lighting wouldn't be there if you hadn't been there at 10 o'clock in the morning to load in. Right. So that was kind of the thing for me was knowing you contributed to something which was massive.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And at the time, I think, because I was so young, I didn't quite realise exactly how much I had contributed.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

But now looking back on it, yes, I was pushing flight case and plugging lights in. But the amount of shows that I worked on, for me it was just work.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

But if if I look now at the amount of tours that I did at that time, I mean I was in the venue for two and a half years.

unknown 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Show a day, most weeks.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Too much. So too much for me.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

All right, let's.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, mental was the word. Um on the word mental, we're gonna move on. Um, how how then did you make that transition from that work into music?

SPEAKER_00 24:23

So I was I was looking at it, I had a quick Google earlier, and the first time that I actually played drums was the Newark Blues Festival, the first ever Newark Blues Festival. When I was nine years old. Oh wow! And that was in Castle Grounds.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

They used to do a workshop at the Blues Festival, which is when I first started playing. And that was you turned up with a pair of drumsticks with a guitar, and you will learn two songs and open up the festival on a Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And that that's when I first played. So there was me, there was another drummer, there was about seven guitarists. That was yeah, um, keyboards and all that.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

And you'd turn up, and there was teachers already there. They would teach you two songs or three songs, and then you that band, whatever band had turned up in that morning, would open the festival on Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Which gets you into musicianship.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

And gets you because I've played a couple of gigs where I've not even met the members till I got to the venue. Really? So I think back to a gig I played in Nottingham last year or the year before. Yeah. I'd have never all that I'd heard was the music. I'd never actually met one of the members.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

So let me got there. Wow, and that's that's just crazy. Let me just ask you something. How did you learn the drums? What what's that process?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

So they had an EP ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

They sent me their whole EP and just said this is our set list. It was original stuff as well, so it wasn't covers. If it was covers, it would have been easier.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

But it was all their own music, and we just couldn't make rehearsal schedules line up.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Oh, that must be annoying.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

The first time I met him was backstage before we play, about ten minutes before we played.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

But how how did you how did you take it from well, let's say turning up and then playing? Did you have like any click tracks or what to practice from or what? How did that work?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

So they sent me clicks. I practice with the click, uh, but live for whatever reason on that night, I don't think their backup was working, the main thing wasn't working, we just went with our click. How did you manage? I love playing with click track, but on that one, it was very much it's something that you learn from musicianship again. You've just got to communicate.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Whether that's little signals or whatever, yeah. It's the sort of tricks that you pick up the more gigs you play. Even like a look, the guy that I play with now, he'll give me a look when I'll know that's when we're going into something a bit different.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Because the band that I play in now, a couple of the songs don't actually have any ending, listen, um, any ending written.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Just jam it out and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Was that a bit of improv?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, just improvise on the spot. Oh. Which is you think I think back to my drumming exams.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Because I did all my gradings and went down there. And part of the grading is actually improv.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Where you listen to the song once.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

And then you got to play the song in full straight after. What? So you listen to it, you can have it either with drums or without drums.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And then they'll play the same song, and you've got to play it. Whatever you're feeling that it brings on the improvisation, uh. It's it's an old jazz way of doing it, I guess. Because obviously jazz is probably improvised anyway, a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

So it a lot of the time when I was doing my grades, it was a jazz song. So you'd just get keyboards, a jazz bassine, once again, not a cover, an original song for that uh exam board, and you just had to play it. But do you have the best?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Do yeah, but do you do you actually play by ear? Or you know, y you I don't know. I mean, how do you learn?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

So it's a bit of a weird one because I I was listening to James's podcast that you did before, and he spoke about kind of karaoke and learning to sing at karaoke's and all that. And I learnt to play going to jam nights and going to open mics.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

So they do it, they did it at navigation, still do it now at the navigation in Newark.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Because that's your dad who's got that. Is he is your dad still got the nav? That's right, yeah. Yeah, he had.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Good old Davey Douglas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Was at a jam night of enough.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

I've done all my gradings, I didn't really fancy it as much. I hadn't really played for a while.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

And someone tapped me and basically said, You're on. Oh, he sticks on me. They knew I could they knew I played.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

And it was kind of didn't give me a just didn't really give me a choice.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

They just said, we need a drummer.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

And it's a deep end.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

You're going on. And then I played. And then I thought to myself, what was I messing about at? Not playing for six months, seven months.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Oh, so a level of realisation, you know, you've been pussy footing around.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah. I don't I don't know. I've been with a band which didn't end that great.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Why? Take us through that. What happened?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

It was it was the band I was in when I was working for the First Royal. Um things things went down, arguments were hard, didn't end very well. Just got very sour very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Right, let me just stop members. Let me just stop you. Right. So group dynamics obviously plays a very important role when in a band.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah. Very, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Who takes the uh the role of the leader then?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

The singer genuinely tends to lead it. But at the time that band was put together through a website. So there's a website called Join My Band.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Which is people post on that website looking for a drummer in Nottingham, looking for a guitarist in Birmingham, and then whoever applies, it's a bit like a dating out, but for musicians. And you'll arrange uh you'll arrange a meetup, you'll arrange a jam.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

But the singer takes on the main dynamic a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

I'm gonna make I'm gonna make that I've been in since.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah. You didn't have to swipe right or swipe left for your bands, did you?

SPEAKER_00 31:35

No. No, no, no, it was literally it was somebody would post on it saying looking for a drum in Nottingham.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

And then you'd message them over this website.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

And literally say, I'm a drummer, I'm available.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Did anyone did anyone ever ask you? Did anyone ever ask you? Show me your sticks. What type of sticks do you have? You know what I mean? You get that creepy voice that goes with it, and you think, nah, this band's not for me, no.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

There was a couple of them, just reading the advert, and then I think it kind of comes in your head of I don't think this one's for me. I think I'm gonna leave it. Oh really? Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

There was there was a couple of moments like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Cause how long have you been drumming now then?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

So that was the first blues festival was when I was nine years old. And then I went through for a couple of years where I turned up and played blues festival every year. But that was all that I did for drums.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

So I never went to any lessons or anything. My lesson was learning to play whatever song we were opening up the blues festival with.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

So they did that in the castle grounds for a couple of years, at the Palace Theatre for a couple of years as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And then Covid kind of stopped that festival.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

And then I don't think it's really fully recovered since then.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

No, I I don't think it's running, is it?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

No, not as the Newark Blooms Festival.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

No, right.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

They have the other things like they have the Newark Festival and the they have the Newark Hustle as well, which is all around the different bars in Newark. So you have that every summer.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

I don't know if that's going ahead this year, but for the last couple of years, you've literally every bar in Newark is taken over by live music.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

From early afternoon till late night.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

I think Dad had ten ten or eleven bands on last year.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And same the year before.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Well let me ask how many bands you've been in. I'm trying to think. It's got to be around fifteen, I'd say. Fifteen? Since since I was like 16, 17. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Mate, there must be something really wrong with somebody for you and me moving around.

unknown 34:18

Fifteen!

SPEAKER_00 34:19

But I do a lot of cover gigs at the minute as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Covers of them playing covers, so I play in a wedding band. Um, but I've also done a lot of depth gigs, they're called. Where you're not the normal drummer.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

For whatever reason a drummer can't make it.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

And you step into that band for one, two gigs, depending on how long it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

But how do you how do you pick up that again?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

So with those, they'll send you a set list. Right, right. So I'm playing with a reggae band of all bands in September. Yeah. Then a couple of gigs with a reggae band in September. I've got their set list already.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Oh, okay. So well in advance.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

I'm already I'm already learning their set.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

And then I did one where I wasn't even on drums, so I did a little percussion setup, which I quite like doing as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I did that last last month or the month before.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Once again, about a month in advance. Are you available for this gig? Here's our set list.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Yeah. Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Which is a bit of a turning point in music.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

From going from turning up to open mics and hoping somebody asks you to play.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah, right, we'll do.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

To having a message off somebody saying, Are you available to play this?

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

So kind of, it's kind of switched a little bit. People approaching you. Yeah. Instead of you going up to people at an open mic and saying you're okay for play with you.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Oh, okay. Let me ask you a personal question and you tell me it's sharp if you don't you don't want to answer it, yeah. Let's just talk about rates, yeah? So I mean how does it work? How how do you, you know, charge yourselves out?

SPEAKER_00 36:09

So in terms of the wedding band, we're on an agency. Okay. So the agency deal with all that. In terms of the originals band that I'm in, that is very much booked off our own backs.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

We played a gig uh earlier this year where we actually lost money on the gig.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

How'd you lose money?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

You because you got to pay the venue higher. Oh paid for the venue higher and then didn't make enough money on the door.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

We've we've played gigs before where we've paid for the venue hire and sold it out and it's been great. But I've also been under contracts with like managers before. Well they'll deal with all of that.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

But then once again, the band's payment is based on how many tickets you sell.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Oh, so you get a cut.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yeah.

unknown 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

So the agent's never gonna lose, is he?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

No, it's the same with external promoters. External promoters are great sometimes. Because once again you don't have to hire the venue. They deal with all the hassle of the venue and doing all of the uh doing all of the organization of it. When you're with an external promoter or with a manager, you turn up soundtrack and play. Whereas when you do it yourself, which I quite like doing. I quite like it's quite fun for me.

unknown 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Is doing it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Are you unusual in that respect or what?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I think DIY is very popular within the industry. But it's a big risk to take. Paying the venue higher, paying uh gambling almost on selling tickets.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, I suppose that's the biggest downside to it all, innit?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Taking those risks.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

And that's the thing when you go through a promoter, is you don't have that hassle.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

You don't have the hassle of what if we don't have to have enough tickets. But I mean that Well you do because you want people to be at the show.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Right, right. But does that mean that you have to go and do your own self-promotion as well as the promoter or what?

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah. So in that, you normally the promoter would kind of expect you to promote on social media or post or whatever, uh, a couple of weeks running to, and then they have like exclusivity things where like you can't play, say you're playing in Nottingham.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

You can't play in Nottingham two weeks either side of the gig if you're going for that promoter.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

To try and drum up a little bit of warrant for that gig.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

I mean, it's not best practice anyway if you're gigging every week.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Because then your your audience is going to be spread out across seven different seven or eight different gigs.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, sure.

unknown 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

So personally, I'd rather have a busier gig and play less gigs. There's some people that would rather play more gigs. But because I'm in a position where I play in a couple of bands now as well, yeah. I don't have to play the same gigs with the same band all the time.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

I'm I'm just intrigued, you know, if you're doing the DIY the DIY stuff, yeah, you know, you really are your own promoter, then, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

You do everything.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

So you'd have hired a venue, you'll get a sound engineer, you'll get a venue equipment, a barman, and normally somebody on security or somebody on the door.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

But other than that, you're hiring an empty room.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

No, so uh yeah, I mean, it'll be the same for everything, and I know costs vary, but what would be an average cost just to put that small team of people together then?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

So you're looking at, depending on the size of venue.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So we're looking at one for our EP launch in September.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

And they're looking at around 250 to 300 quid. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Well that's not bad.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

For those people. Yeah. No, but then there's some which are bigger venues.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

But you're looking at 700, 800 quid.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

As a one-off payment, which is where the risk is.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Yeah, you've definitely got to have a good social media following.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah. You've got to find a way to get people through the doors.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

So you know when you put a band together, then?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Do um what what's the procedure for getting the socials out? I mean, do you do individual little blogs or do you do it as a group? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Every band works differently.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

So my current band mate is my all-time battery.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

So we just spend a couple of nights a week just either signing the pub or uh each other's houses, and we just hammer emails.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

To promoters, yeah. To venues. Yeah. Somebody please give us a kick.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

It's very much you've just got to throw something till something sticks. Yeah. It really is. And it was saying, we were saying actually me and Miles were saying the other day, we've emailed 20 something venues over the last two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

And we've had something like two replies. Wow. I guess that's where it gets a bit disheartening as well. Because you feel like banging your head against the brickwell.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Right. But do you ever send in like demo tapes and everything else?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Hmm. So you have to send in music and demos. We've got music already out, so we'll just link them to our Spotify or our Apple Music. Yeah. That they will look at social media following as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, they want to know that you got the draw, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah. And that's it. It's not how good your music, it's how many tickets can you sell.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

End of.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Or how many Instagram followers have you got.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Which for me, that kind of where the frustration comes into it.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Is you can be in the best band in the world.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

But if you've not got the social media pool, yeah, yeah. Then they're not really going to look at you in terms of a promoter. Which I understand as well. I'm not there's nothing against promoters.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

But that's just the way that the industry is.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Well, look, we're nearing the end. Um yeah, I mean, it's I I didn't realise there was so much to it, I've got to be honest with you. What's your next step? What what are you on with?

SPEAKER_00 42:59

So I was saying I'm depping for a couple of wedding bands at the minute.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

And then we've got our EP coming out in September.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

What's the name of the EP?

SPEAKER_00 43:10

So that's just going to be self-titled. So you got a name for it, yeah? Cooey.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Say again.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Cooey. What Kooey? With a K. Yeah. So that's where it came from. We were both very we'd both been on the night out. Alright. And we were both very drunk in the middle of a bar in Nottingham. Miles went to the toilet. Came back downstairs and couldn't find me. So I I stood up in the middle of his bar and went, Cooey! Like that at him across the bar. Oh my gosh. And that's where the name stuck. But the funny thing is, we we we said we're gonna name a band that. We'd already said we were gonna do a band together at that point.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

But we hadn't properly, properly got right in.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

And then we said that's what it was gonna be called. Yeah, yeah. And then on a different occasion, where We'd been out again. We did all of the promotional materials, got the logo designed and everything. Paid for the logo, paid for the social media, everything, all that. And then realised that we spelt it wrong. Oh no! So that we we said, well, it we'll keep it. We paid for it now.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Oh, I don't blame you. It's a nice way of doing it though, isn't it? Nice original little story.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

We told that story whenever we gig.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

And it gets a laugh. So it's one of the things that kind of gets the audience on side.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yeah. Alright, let me ask you one last thing. Um, if anyone wants to hear your music, you know. Where can they go?

SPEAKER_00 44:44

So on all social media and streaming, it's Kooy with a K. So K-O-O-E-Y. We've got lots of stuff coming up this year.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

I'll say an EP comes out this year. We've not done that many out-of-town shows yet.

unknown 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

We're kind of focused on Nottingham. Okay, cool. And obviously done a bit in Newark.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Where's the first gig gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 45:06

We're looking at going. We're looking at going elsewhere and getting it bigger.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah. Where's your first gig?

SPEAKER_00 45:13

The next one we're playing out of the navigation, actually in Newark.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

And when is that? What day?

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Let me just double check. The 12th of June.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

12th of June, okay, what time?

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah, Friday night. So there's two bands on.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

There's us and another band called Soft Surf, who are our friends from Nottingham, so we're bringing them over for the gig.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Uh normally music starts about half eight on those site.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

On those nights. Dad does it now once a month, he'll have an originals night.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Where we'll have two originals bands on.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

And give them the give them the traction of getting the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's nice. Nice that he keeps that going.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

He has music every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

He'll have live music in there all of those nights. But he's only just realistically started getting into the original stuff.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yeah, no, good.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

He's had the old originals night.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

That he's really going for it this year. I played the one with my other band, the one just gone last week. I played that last week. And um once again, it was it was great. But that was to Metronome, that was to click track.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

So with that band, we literally I saw him the week before, and that was the first time we've seen each other since last October. And that's the beauty when he got a click track. Yeah, yeah. Whereas with Kooey, we're not to click. So we turn up, rehearse week in, week out, just in case the gig does come along. And that's the pros and cons realistically of having a click and don't having a click.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Well, look, we've run out of time, but just to reiterate, you Kooy can be seen June 26th down at the navigation, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Yeah, let me just it's even the 12th Friday night. It's the 12th. Friday, the Friday, the 12th of June.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Where do I get the 26th from? Oh no, I'm out, that's why. I'm looking at my diary thinking, hang on, I'm out then. Hey Doug, thanks ever so much, mate. I really appreciate you coming on and giving us your little uh your little journey. Um hope all goes well and keep in touch, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Well done, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Thanks for coming on backstage, guys. Take care, man. Now, as as Harvey said, you know, to DIY or do it yourself, as they say in the industry, is too much of a risk, possibly, for most people. Um, because you just gotta do absolutely everything. That's one of the reasons why they go and get themselves a promoter. Obviously, having a promoter, you've still got work to do. You know, you've still got to use your toe tools. So if you've if you've not got your toe tools in place, you better start that now. But anyway, that's enough from the music world. We're gonna move on to acting again, and we're gonna go talk to the autistic. And we're gonna move on to the acting world again. Um, we're gonna talk to Lucy Moon, who is the autistic actress. That's next on Backstage Ghost.